Evergreen Content Marketing with Steven Khanna of WhitePress

I I think with within the affiliate I I think with within the affiliate marketing space and I could be wrong I

marketing space and I could be wrong I marketing space and I could be wrong I get a Feeling Again as an outsider cuz I

get a Feeling Again as an outsider cuz I get a Feeling Again as an outsider cuz I still consider myself as an outsider

still consider myself as an outsider still consider myself as an outsider within the SEO space being only in it

within the SEO space being only in it within the SEO space being only in it for two years affiliate marketing does

for two years affiliate marketing does for two years affiliate marketing does need a bit of a revolution in my opinion

need a bit of a revolution in my opinion need a bit of a revolution in my opinion it needs a lot more technology being

it needs a lot more technology being it needs a lot more technology being interfaced into affiliate sites where

interfaced into affiliate sites where interfaced into affiliate sites where the journey becomes a lot more seamless

the journey becomes a lot more seamless the journey becomes a lot more seamless whether it's onboarding continuation

whether it's onboarding continuation whether it's onboarding continuation more Revenue generation leads whatever

more Revenue generation leads whatever more Revenue generation leads whatever that might be I apart from Seno I think

that might be I apart from Seno I think that might be I apart from Seno I think General anyways the industry screaming

General anyways the industry screaming General anyways the industry screaming out for an absolutely revolutionary tool

out for an absolutely revolutionary tool out for an absolutely revolutionary tool which will just help affiliate

which will just help affiliate which will just help affiliate marketers I'm John Wright and you're

marketers I'm John Wright and you're marketers I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business

listening to affiliate bi the business listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by [Music]

[Music] [Music] stats welcome to the affiliate bi

stats welcome to the affiliate bi stats welcome to the affiliate bi podcast today we're chatting with podcast today we're chatting with podcast today we're chatting with Stephen Cana who is the head of English

Stephen Cana who is the head of English Stephen Cana who is the head of English Markets at White press he's also content

Markets at White press he's also content Markets at White press he's also content creat and I want to pass it back to you

creat and I want to pass it back to you creat and I want to pass it back to you stepen to tell us a bit more about you

stepen to tell us a bit more about you stepen to tell us a bit more about you and welcome to the show thank you John

and welcome to the show thank you John and welcome to the show thank you John uh absolute pleasure you know thanks for

uh absolute pleasure you know thanks for uh absolute pleasure you know thanks for having me um yeah my journey or my

having me um yeah my journey or my having me um yeah my journey or my relatively uh you know very newish

relatively uh you know very newish relatively uh you know very newish Journey intoo I've only been in Su like

Journey intoo I've only been in Su like Journey intoo I've only been in Su like a couple of years uh funny story me

a couple of years uh funny story me a couple of years uh funny story me having drinks on a Friday night uh in

having drinks on a Friday night uh in having drinks on a Friday night uh in Poland where I live and my boss Tom was

Poland where I live and my boss Tom was Poland where I live and my boss Tom was the head of international growth we just

the head of international growth we just the head of international growth we just ended up chatting I I had a bit of

ended up chatting I I had a bit of ended up chatting I I had a bit of Interest anyways within the digital

Interest anyways within the digital Interest anyways within the digital digital marketing space and all of that

digital marketing space and all of that digital marketing space and all of that we kind of connected and he ended up

we kind of connected and he ended up we kind of connected and he ended up offering saying H have you ever heard

offering saying H have you ever heard offering saying H have you ever heard about about about SEO

SEO SEO um the honest answer was no uh and he

um the honest answer was no uh and he um the honest answer was no uh and he tried to explaining it to me and it took

tried to explaining it to me and it took tried to explaining it to me and it took a while uh anyways we had several

a while uh anyways we had several a while uh anyways we had several meetings backwards and forwards here I

meetings backwards and forwards here I meetings backwards and forwards here I am two years later uh leading the uh

am two years later uh leading the uh am two years later uh leading the uh English Market here by white press you

English Market here by white press you English Market here by white press you know getting the brand name out there

know getting the brand name out there know getting the brand name out there you know going on webinars and po

you know going on webinars and po you know going on webinars and po podcast all around the world ending up

podcast all around the world ending up podcast all around the world ending up as speakers you know as as an expert uh

as speakers you know as as an expert uh as speakers you know as as an expert uh which knows all of who knows all about

which knows all of who knows all about which knows all of who knows all about link building but SE is such such a

link building but SE is such such a link building but SE is such such a massive space you know that John you massive space you know that John you massive space you know that John you know there's so much to learn every day

know there's so much to learn every day know there's so much to learn every day uh which kind of ties back to my past

uh which kind of ties back to my past uh which kind of ties back to my past experience which has been running experience which has been running experience which has been running restaurants Michelin star restaurants

restaurants Michelin star restaurants restaurants Michelin star restaurants back in the UK you know 20 plus years

back in the UK you know 20 plus years back in the UK you know 20 plus years I'm actually a wine simil by trade and

I'm actually a wine simil by trade and I'm actually a wine simil by trade and all of that but that's exactly what

all of that but that's exactly what all of that but that's exactly what happens there SEO in a strange way cuz

happens there SEO in a strange way cuz happens there SEO in a strange way cuz we've got saying in the restaurant world

we've got saying in the restaurant world we've got saying in the restaurant world that the day you guys think you've

that the day you guys think you've that the day you guys think you've actually conquered that industry you

actually conquered that industry you actually conquered that industry you know karma is going to come and hit you

know karma is going to come and hit you know karma is going to come and hit you so bad and that's exactly what I love

so bad and that's exactly what I love so bad and that's exactly what I love about SEO there is so much new to learn

about SEO there is so much new to learn about SEO there is so much new to learn about every day because quite simply you

about every day because quite simply you about every day because quite simply you could never predict what Google's going

could never predict what Google's going could never predict what Google's going to do the next morning the next day we

to do the next morning the next day we to do the next morning the next day we all know what's been going on we

all know what's been going on we all know what's been going on we currently still in a massive uh roll out

currently still in a massive uh roll out currently still in a massive uh roll out of the update going on which clearly has

of the update going on which clearly has of the update going on which clearly has shook the industry you know this is the

shook the industry you know this is the shook the industry you know this is the biggest update the most severe update

biggest update the most severe update biggest update the most severe update I've seen whether it's manual penalties

I've seen whether it's manual penalties I've seen whether it's manual penalties being given out to AI influences you

being given out to AI influences you being given out to AI influences you know people being targeted but then on

know people being targeted but then on know people being targeted but then on the other end of the spectrum they're

the other end of the spectrum they're the other end of the spectrum they're also targeting proper white hat uh link

also targeting proper white hat uh link also targeting proper white hat uh link building agencies or sites who've never

building agencies or sites who've never building agencies or sites who've never ever done anything which is remotely

ever done anything which is remotely ever done anything which is remotely shady and poor guys even their websites

shady and poor guys even their websites shady and poor guys even their websites are being targeted so who knows how the

are being targeted so who knows how the are being targeted so who knows how the industry would change you know by the

industry would change you know by the industry would change you know by the time we finish finish March yeah I mean

time we finish finish March yeah I mean time we finish finish March yeah I mean even by the time we finish this episode

even by the time we finish this episode even by the time we finish this episode so much is changing and we'll definitely

so much is changing and we'll definitely so much is changing and we'll definitely get into that a bit further um there

get into that a bit further um there get into that a bit further um there seems to be a pretty big SEO Community

seems to be a pretty big SEO Community seems to be a pretty big SEO Community happening in Poland what's going on down

happening in Poland what's going on down happening in Poland what's going on down there yeah um Poland's been a bit of a

there yeah um Poland's been a bit of a there yeah um Poland's been a bit of a revolution when it comes to you know the

revolution when it comes to you know the revolution when it comes to you know the SEO knowledge and I remember five six

SEO knowledge and I remember five six SEO knowledge and I remember five six years uh previously you know they all

years uh previously you know they all years uh previously you know they all used to be in terms of ranking there was

used to be in terms of ranking there was used to be in terms of ranking there was hardly any technical SEO going on it was

hardly any technical SEO going on it was hardly any technical SEO going on it was all about buying links pbns and all of

all about buying links pbns and all of all about buying links pbns and all of that but since that time um I've seen

that but since that time um I've seen that but since that time um I've seen people like Robert ncha uh who's you

people like Robert ncha uh who's you people like Robert ncha uh who's you know the biggest polish Legend here you

know the biggest polish Legend here you know the biggest polish Legend here you know and I've learned a lot from that

know and I've learned a lot from that know and I've learned a lot from that gentleman where the knowledge of uh the

gentleman where the knowledge of uh the gentleman where the knowledge of uh the Polish seos here is just off the charts

Polish seos here is just off the charts Polish seos here is just off the charts and we've seen that I saw it as a um

and we've seen that I saw it as a um and we've seen that I saw it as a um evidence when white press has been doing

evidence when white press has been doing evidence when white press has been doing our conferences the last couple of years

our conferences the last couple of years our conferences the last couple of years in Poland and we hold some big ones so

in Poland and we hold some big ones so in Poland and we hold some big ones so people like the KY roofs and the Matt

people like the KY roofs and the Matt people like the KY roofs and the Matt diges uh or the Charles floats when they

diges uh or the Charles floats when they diges uh or the Charles floats when they when they came in they were all

when they came in they were all when they came in they were all Spellbound you're like mate the SEO

Spellbound you're like mate the SEO Spellbound you're like mate the SEO space in Poland is just growing rapidly

space in Poland is just growing rapidly space in Poland is just growing rapidly the the knowledge level people have and

the the knowledge level people have and the the knowledge level people have and now with AI being such a big factor in

now with AI being such a big factor in now with AI being such a big factor in our life not just SEO uh you know we we

our life not just SEO uh you know we we our life not just SEO uh you know we we white press has a habit of buying

white press has a habit of buying white press has a habit of buying certain strategic tools out there we

certain strategic tools out there we certain strategic tools out there we just bought another platform which is

just bought another platform which is just bought another platform which is called Seno which is going to be very

called Seno which is going to be very called Seno which is going to be very quick quick quick as a competition to ah refs and semrush

as a competition to ah refs and semrush as a competition to ah refs and semrush quite big in the Polish market and their

quite big in the Polish market and their quite big in the Polish market and their CEO Damian an absolute Legend I've had

CEO Damian an absolute Legend I've had CEO Damian an absolute Legend I've had chats with him and trust me after two

chats with him and trust me after two chats with him and trust me after two minutes I feel like like an idiot the

minutes I feel like like an idiot the minutes I feel like like an idiot the the the kind of knowledge this guy has

the the kind of knowledge this guy has the the kind of knowledge this guy has how combining AI into SEO is just

how combining AI into SEO is just how combining AI into SEO is just mindboggling so I always knew that the

mindboggling so I always knew that the mindboggling so I always knew that the Polish SEO space uh or within the

Polish SEO space uh or within the Polish SEO space uh or within the internet industry you know the Polish uh

internet industry you know the Polish uh internet industry you know the Polish uh Community had is really switched on

Community had is really switched on Community had is really switched on really really clever cookies and now

really really clever cookies and now really really clever cookies and now they've up their game when it comes to

they've up their game when it comes to they've up their game when it comes to how internationally SEO is perceived and

how internationally SEO is perceived and how internationally SEO is perceived and I can see similar things you know when

I can see similar things you know when I can see similar things you know when it comes to how to rank a website you

it comes to how to rank a website you it comes to how to rank a website you know being very white hat keeping up

know being very white hat keeping up know being very white hat keeping up with the Google uh algo updates I see

with the Google uh algo updates I see with the Google uh algo updates I see the Polish Community doing exactly the

the Polish Community doing exactly the the Polish Community doing exactly the same so I think I'm privileged that I me

same so I think I'm privileged that I me same so I think I'm privileged that I me as in being in white press and we be

as in being in white press and we be as in being in white press and we be predominantly a Polish company that's

predominantly a Polish company that's predominantly a Polish company that's where our head office is that's where I

where our head office is that's where I where our head office is that's where I am right now I think in the right place

am right now I think in the right place am right now I think in the right place at the right time when it comes to a you

at the right time when it comes to a you at the right time when it comes to a you know riding the the growth the Polish Su

know riding the the growth the Polish Su know riding the the growth the Polish Su Community is Community is Community is experiencing uh and me being kind of in

experiencing uh and me being kind of in experiencing uh and me being kind of in a lot of ways the face of white press

a lot of ways the face of white press a lot of ways the face of white press when it comes to English Markets I can

when it comes to English Markets I can when it comes to English Markets I can kind of combine and leverage that

kind of combine and leverage that kind of combine and leverage that knowledge I'm getting from the local

knowledge I'm getting from the local knowledge I'm getting from the local Polish Community combining it with all

Polish Community combining it with all Polish Community combining it with all the international players who you know

the international players who you know the international players who you know I'm good mates with whether it's the I'm good mates with whether it's the I'm good mates with whether it's the Charlie or the Kyle Rose or the Matt

Charlie or the Kyle Rose or the Matt Charlie or the Kyle Rose or the Matt tiges you know uh and kind of being uh

tiges you know uh and kind of being uh tiges you know uh and kind of being uh learning from from both ends so I

learning from from both ends so I learning from from both ends so I couldn't be more blessed to be honest

couldn't be more blessed to be honest couldn't be more blessed to be honest yeah I mean that's uh like that app you

yeah I mean that's uh like that app you yeah I mean that's uh like that app you said it was a cuto cuto it's spelled as

said it was a cuto cuto it's spelled as said it was a cuto cuto it's spelled as s n u t o yeah I've heard about this

s n u t o yeah I've heard about this s n u t o yeah I've heard about this recently and yeah just to hear that

recently and yeah just to hear that recently and yeah just to hear that there's uh anyone that wants to be crazy

there's uh anyone that wants to be crazy there's uh anyone that wants to be crazy enough to go up against the HRS and the

enough to go up against the HRS and the enough to go up against the HRS and the semrush but I think uh the community has

semrush but I think uh the community has semrush but I think uh the community has been kind of asking for a little bit

been kind of asking for a little bit been kind of asking for a little bit more competition correct correct that's

more competition correct correct that's more competition correct correct that's that's the idea and you know we've

that's the idea and you know we've that's the idea and you know we've obviously invested serious money in

obviously invested serious money in obviously invested serious money in there to get some more servers out there

there to get some more servers out there there to get some more servers out there start crawling the English Markets and

start crawling the English Markets and start crawling the English Markets and all so I would tell your audience wait

all so I would tell your audience wait all so I would tell your audience wait six months and you'll see Seno's name

six months and you'll see Seno's name six months and you'll see Seno's name popping up a lot we're going to have to

popping up a lot we're going to have to popping up a lot we're going to have to chat after the show about that app um so

chat after the show about that app um so chat after the show about that app um so I'm in Malta right now and I'm talking

I'm in Malta right now and I'm talking I'm in Malta right now and I'm talking with a lot of gambling Affiliates and

with a lot of gambling Affiliates and with a lot of gambling Affiliates and the talk of town isn't just uh updates

the talk of town isn't just uh updates the talk of town isn't just uh updates and people getting uh slammed all over

and people getting uh slammed all over and people getting uh slammed all over the place uh but I mean a lot of the SEO

the place uh but I mean a lot of the SEO the place uh but I mean a lot of the SEO tactics that we've been hearing for tactics that we've been hearing for tactics that we've been hearing for quite some while are like um like the

quite some while are like um like the quite some while are like um like the parasite SEO where Outlook India just

parasite SEO where Outlook India just parasite SEO where Outlook India just went massive with like not only selling

went massive with like not only selling went massive with like not only selling links and how much they were selling for

links and how much they were selling for links and how much they were selling for but do you think with the changes where

but do you think with the changes where but do you think with the changes where Outlook India is uh got put back down

Outlook India is uh got put back down Outlook India is uh got put back down Earth you think the power is going back

Earth you think the power is going back Earth you think the power is going back to the Affiliates where they don't have to the Affiliates where they don't have to the Affiliates where they don't have to feel threatened by big news media

to feel threatened by big news media to feel threatened by big news media sites like USA Today that are just gonna

sites like USA Today that are just gonna sites like USA Today that are just gonna turn into affiliate sites yes yes I

turn into affiliate sites yes yes I turn into affiliate sites yes yes I agree and I think this is a long time

agree and I think this is a long time agree and I think this is a long time coming when it came to parasite SEO you

coming when it came to parasite SEO you coming when it came to parasite SEO you know I've heard plent of

know I've heard plent of know I've heard plent of experts who have supported parasite SEO

experts who have supported parasite SEO experts who have supported parasite SEO but obviously for the right reasons even

but obviously for the right reasons even but obviously for the right reasons even though the tactics a bit you know

though the tactics a bit you know though the tactics a bit you know grayish light black ha whatever uh but

grayish light black ha whatever uh but grayish light black ha whatever uh but clearly Google's making a statement here

clearly Google's making a statement here clearly Google's making a statement here you know uh I and this is just my my

you know uh I and this is just my my you know uh I and this is just my my hunch my gut instinct but mixed with a

hunch my gut instinct but mixed with a hunch my gut instinct but mixed with a lot of knowledge and opinions I've heard

lot of knowledge and opinions I've heard lot of knowledge and opinions I've heard from people since the

from people since the from people since the update Google wants to create that

update Google wants to create that update Google wants to create that equili that balance again and I think

equili that balance again and I think equili that balance again and I think that talk about oh AI is going to take

that talk about oh AI is going to take that talk about oh AI is going to take over and parasite SEO is is such an easy

over and parasite SEO is is such an easy over and parasite SEO is is such an easy way to kind of cheat Google algorithms

way to kind of cheat Google algorithms way to kind of cheat Google algorithms and all of that I don't think they mind

and all of that I don't think they mind and all of that I don't think they mind that uh it's when those things start

that uh it's when those things start that uh it's when those things start becoming a lot bigger you know the Big

becoming a lot bigger you know the Big becoming a lot bigger you know the Big Daddy comes in cracks the whip uh and

Daddy comes in cracks the whip uh and Daddy comes in cracks the whip uh and gets people back in in the line so to

gets people back in in the line so to gets people back in in the line so to speak only time will tell John you know

speak only time will tell John you know speak only time will tell John you know whoever is making those predictions

whoever is making those predictions whoever is making those predictions whether it's myself or all the other big

whether it's myself or all the other big whether it's myself or all the other big names you can't really predict what

names you can't really predict what names you can't really predict what Google's going to uh do a month from now

Google's going to uh do a month from now Google's going to uh do a month from now two months from now how the next updates

two months from now how the next updates two months from now how the next updates going to look like however Us in the SEO

going to look like however Us in the SEO going to look like however Us in the SEO space it's all about predicting uh what

space it's all about predicting uh what space it's all about predicting uh what the patterns are and seeing how it is so

the patterns are and seeing how it is so the patterns are and seeing how it is so based on ground reality as of today I

based on ground reality as of today I based on ground reality as of today I agree with you you know the power is

agree with you you know the power is agree with you you know the power is going to get back to you know the going to get back to you know the going to get back to you know the affiliate owners and all of that where

affiliate owners and all of that where affiliate owners and all of that where the Outlook indas and all the other

the Outlook indas and all the other the Outlook indas and all the other websites which were perhaps overdoing it

websites which were perhaps overdoing it websites which were perhaps overdoing it with the parasite SEO I think they'll

with the parasite SEO I think they'll with the parasite SEO I think they'll have to take a deep breath uh rest

have to take a deep breath uh rest have to take a deep breath uh rest strategize again and see how they kind

strategize again and see how they kind strategize again and see how they kind of you know come up with a newer

of you know come up with a newer of you know come up with a newer strategy which is more slightly Google

strategy which is more slightly Google strategy which is more slightly Google friendly if I can say

friendly if I can say friendly if I can say that so what would you say in your mind

that so what would you say in your mind that so what would you say in your mind is like the future of Link building and

is like the future of Link building and is like the future of Link building and what would you describe as like

what would you describe as like what would you describe as like Evergreen link building strategies yeah

Evergreen link building strategies yeah Evergreen link building strategies yeah well no matter every six months I hear

well no matter every six months I hear well no matter every six months I hear that links would have no value or link

that links would have no value or link that links would have no value or link building is dead but let's let's face it

building is dead but let's let's face it building is dead but let's let's face it uh links would remain one of the most

uh links would remain one of the most uh links would remain one of the most important factors if not the top one but

important factors if not the top one but important factors if not the top one but at least you know number two number

at least you know number two number at least you know number two number three number four major ranking Factor

three number four major ranking Factor three number four major ranking Factor um how I see the link building industry

um how I see the link building industry um how I see the link building industry changing since this update and Beyond I

changing since this update and Beyond I changing since this update and Beyond I think digital PR is going to play uh a

think digital PR is going to play uh a think digital PR is going to play uh a very important role in this you know

very important role in this you know very important role in this you know um acquiring links through

um acquiring links through um acquiring links through high quality content even though the

high quality content even though the high quality content even though the turnaround times might be longer I think

turnaround times might be longer I think turnaround times might be longer I think that's how it's going to end up uh

that's how it's going to end up uh that's how it's going to end up uh panning out at least till the end of

panning out at least till the end of panning out at least till the end of 2024 you know I'll be honest the link

2024 you know I'll be honest the link 2024 you know I'll be honest the link Wenders out there uh might suffer a bit

Wenders out there uh might suffer a bit Wenders out there uh might suffer a bit of a hit uh where everyone's scared you

of a hit uh where everyone's scared you of a hit uh where everyone's scared you know our inventory as well within white

know our inventory as well within white know our inventory as well within white press you know a percentage a very small

press you know a percentage a very small press you know a percentage a very small percentage was affected but thank God

percentage was affected but thank God percentage was affected but thank God and I I I kind of kudos to my leadership

and I I I kind of kudos to my leadership and I I I kind of kudos to my leadership where we wetting sides in an extremely

where we wetting sides in an extremely where we wetting sides in an extremely in intrinsic level you know not much is

in intrinsic level you know not much is in intrinsic level you know not much is happened to White press people are still

happened to White press people are still happened to White press people are still spending money and all of that but I

spending money and all of that but I spending money and all of that but I think why I'm interested you know what

think why I'm interested you know what think why I'm interested you know what it's it's actually a great question it's it's actually a great question it's it's actually a great question because before the

because before the because before the update people were pivoting from guest

update people were pivoting from guest update people were pivoting from guest po between guest posting but then they

po between guest posting but then they po between guest posting but then they were investing a lot of money into Niche

were investing a lot of money into Niche were investing a lot of money into Niche edits because clearly a page is ranking

edits because clearly a page is ranking edits because clearly a page is ranking you know you're not taking a shot in the

you know you're not taking a shot in the you know you're not taking a shot in the dark you know you you do and you and you

dark you know you you do and you and you dark you know you you do and you and you gain image it value the needle moves

gain image it value the needle moves gain image it value the needle moves compared to a guest posting but now the

compared to a guest posting but now the compared to a guest posting but now the updates happened I want to see how

updates happened I want to see how updates happened I want to see how people kind of react to it uh in fact

people kind of react to it uh in fact people kind of react to it uh in fact the feedback or the meetings I've had

the feedback or the meetings I've had the feedback or the meetings I've had with clients not that any of my clients

with clients not that any of my clients with clients not that any of my clients websites were hit they're all doing what

websites were hit they're all doing what websites were hit they're all doing what they're supposed to be doing people have

they're supposed to be doing people have they're supposed to be doing people have been coming back to me and say Steve

been coming back to me and say Steve been coming back to me and say Steve what do you think what should be our

what do you think what should be our what do you think what should be our next quarterly plan now even though we

next quarterly plan now even though we next quarterly plan now even though we had a plan in place how should we

had a plan in place how should we had a plan in place how should we address the link building thing and I

address the link building thing and I address the link building thing and I kept telling them I went back to one

kept telling them I went back to one kept telling them I went back to one thing and I said guys you kept asking me

thing and I said guys you kept asking me thing and I said guys you kept asking me for websites to link with which had uh

for websites to link with which had uh for websites to link with which had uh stable or increasing traffic and I kept

stable or increasing traffic and I kept stable or increasing traffic and I kept telling you listen majority of them

telling you listen majority of them telling you listen majority of them there's a lot of AI content being used

there's a lot of AI content being used there's a lot of AI content being used there to scale which is kind of fooling

there to scale which is kind of fooling there to scale which is kind of fooling the algorithm start considering real

the algorithm start considering real the algorithm start considering real websites even though it might show a bit

websites even though it might show a bit websites even though it might show a bit of a downward traffic Trend and those

of a downward traffic Trend and those of a downward traffic Trend and those websites the ones which have not been

websites the ones which have not been websites the ones which have not been hit but still have a bit of a Down

hit but still have a bit of a Down hit but still have a bit of a Down traffic Trend in my opinion are the real

traffic Trend in my opinion are the real traffic Trend in my opinion are the real websites because clearly if that was

websites because clearly if that was websites because clearly if that was abused in terms of AI in terms of shady

abused in terms of AI in terms of shady abused in terms of AI in terms of shady link building tactics or pbn and all of

link building tactics or pbn and all of link building tactics or pbn and all of that they were the first ones to be to

that they were the first ones to be to that they were the first ones to be to be hit so those are kind of interesting

be hit so those are kind of interesting be hit so those are kind of interesting conversations I'm currently having with

conversations I'm currently having with conversations I'm currently having with a bit of my eye on on the update and see

a bit of my eye on on the update and see a bit of my eye on on the update and see how it happens so probably early days

how it happens so probably early days how it happens so probably early days for me to kind of put my finger on it as

for me to kind of put my finger on it as for me to kind of put my finger on it as to how it might pan out but obviously

to how it might pan out but obviously to how it might pan out but obviously been doing link building for a while I

been doing link building for a while I been doing link building for a while I think people will still invest a lot in

think people will still invest a lot in think people will still invest a lot in link building because it is a major link building because it is a major link building because it is a major ranking Factor but I think they'll pivot

ranking Factor but I think they'll pivot ranking Factor but I think they'll pivot a lot more towards Niche edits SL

a lot more towards Niche edits SL a lot more towards Niche edits SL digital PR and then play a waiting game

digital PR and then play a waiting game digital PR and then play a waiting game and see okay what happens next yeah well

and see okay what happens next yeah well and see okay what happens next yeah well I guess uh like you know for keeping

I guess uh like you know for keeping I guess uh like you know for keeping your clients happy I guess it's not too

your clients happy I guess it's not too your clients happy I guess it's not too difficult if you're focusing on the difficult if you're focusing on the difficult if you're focusing on the Evergreen stuff as opposed to I mean

Evergreen stuff as opposed to I mean Evergreen stuff as opposed to I mean yeah maybe there's nothing wrong with yeah maybe there's nothing wrong with yeah maybe there's nothing wrong with the parasite SEO and the AI content

the parasite SEO and the AI content the parasite SEO and the AI content where it's trending up but like you said

where it's trending up but like you said where it's trending up but like you said if it's not really stable and you kind

if it's not really stable and you kind if it's not really stable and you kind of already know that there's going to be

of already know that there's going to be of already know that there's going to be a maybe no future for that it's uh you

a maybe no future for that it's uh you a maybe no future for that it's uh you don't want to be on the wrong side of don't want to be on the wrong side of don't want to be on the wrong side of the fence and I'm sure some people are the fence and I'm sure some people are the fence and I'm sure some people are riding that wave but um you know a lot

riding that wave but um you know a lot riding that wave but um you know a lot of people they're just actually having of people they're just actually having of people they're just actually having their business taken from under them and

their business taken from under them and their business taken from under them and maybe they should have had the the

maybe they should have had the the maybe they should have had the the Evergreen um you know link building

Evergreen um you know link building Evergreen um you know link building strategy I agree I agree and I was

strategy I agree I agree and I was strategy I agree I agree and I was having a chat with James douly the other

having a chat with James douly the other having a chat with James douly the other day and he said Mate A lot of people are

day and he said Mate A lot of people are day and he said Mate A lot of people are getting it wrong it's not in the entire

getting it wrong it's not in the entire getting it wrong it's not in the entire that every site built on AI or used AI

that every site built on AI or used AI that every site built on AI or used AI content which is been it's not the AI

content which is been it's not the AI content which is been it's not the AI content which is being really hit or the

content which is being really hit or the content which is being really hit or the AI strategy it's the spam which people

AI strategy it's the spam which people AI strategy it's the spam which people have put out and literally scaled it you

have put out and literally scaled it you have put out and literally scaled it you know with no human uh interference at

know with no human uh interference at know with no human uh interference at all you know some of the content all you know some of the content all you know some of the content creation we do in wi press we use some

creation we do in wi press we use some creation we do in wi press we use some AI tools just to get ideas just to get

AI tools just to get ideas just to get AI tools just to get ideas just to get Frameworks and guidelines but clearly we

Frameworks and guidelines but clearly we Frameworks and guidelines but clearly we need you know uh a human involvement in

need you know uh a human involvement in need you know uh a human involvement in there in terms of editing and all of

there in terms of editing and all of there in terms of editing and all of that but I think as it always happens

that but I think as it always happens that but I think as it always happens with human with human with human evolution every time there's a new

evolution every time there's a new evolution every time there's a new technology which comes in which shortens

technology which comes in which shortens technology which comes in which shortens our work people would tend to abuse it

our work people would tend to abuse it our work people would tend to abuse it you know you forget forget SEO you look

you know you forget forget SEO you look you know you forget forget SEO you look at everything else in the past you know

at everything else in the past you know at everything else in the past you know before before when the first iPhones

before before when the first iPhones before before when the first iPhones were launched you know uh why do we all

were launched you know uh why do we all were launched you know uh why do we all complain now about you know our younger

complain now about you know our younger complain now about you know our younger generation everyone's addicted to our to

generation everyone's addicted to our to generation everyone's addicted to our to the telephones to screens and all of

the telephones to screens and all of the telephones to screens and all of that but that's

that but that's that but that's because by Nature we are kind of a bit

because by Nature we are kind of a bit because by Nature we are kind of a bit lazy every time we see technology doing

lazy every time we see technology doing lazy every time we see technology doing most of our jobs people would do it and

most of our jobs people would do it and most of our jobs people would do it and on top of that I think a lot of business

on top of that I think a lot of business on top of that I think a lot of business owners probably got a bit greedy as well

owners probably got a bit greedy as well owners probably got a bit greedy as well I've heard horror stories where I've heard horror stories where I've heard horror stories where copywriters have been sacked overnight

copywriters have been sacked overnight copywriters have been sacked overnight because they thought AI is the game of

because they thought AI is the game of because they thought AI is the game of fantastic AI tools out there I'm going

fantastic AI tools out there I'm going fantastic AI tools out there I'm going to thrash out content everything's fine

to thrash out content everything's fine to thrash out content everything's fine Google's not going to do anything there

Google's not going to do anything there Google's not going to do anything there we go Google woke up and said uhuh mate

we go Google woke up and said uhuh mate we go Google woke up and said uhuh mate it it ain't happening any longer

it it ain't happening any longer it it ain't happening any longer so AI would still uh content creation

so AI would still uh content creation so AI would still uh content creation would still be used a lot but I think

would still be used a lot but I think would still be used a lot but I think now people would be a lot more careful

now people would be a lot more careful now people would be a lot more careful with the human involvement however I've

with the human involvement however I've with the human involvement however I've also seen plenty of other uh content

also seen plenty of other uh content also seen plenty of other uh content creation agencies who probably predicted

creation agencies who probably predicted creation agencies who probably predicted this and they were wise enough not to

this and they were wise enough not to this and they were wise enough not to use any AI at all and I've had several

use any AI at all and I've had several use any AI at all and I've had several conversations with my clients or other

conversations with my clients or other conversations with my clients or other SEO experts in the UK and they said mate

SEO experts in the UK and they said mate SEO experts in the UK and they said mate I was ahead of time they have still had

I was ahead of time they have still had I was ahead of time they have still had a full team of copywriters there and

a full team of copywriters there and a full team of copywriters there and everything just just just works fine

everything just just just works fine everything just just just works fine yeah it's interesting you talk about yeah it's interesting you talk about yeah it's interesting you talk about digital PR as being kind of like the

digital PR as being kind of like the digital PR as being kind of like the thing that's really important and I

thing that's really important and I thing that's really important and I think there's some insight behind it

think there's some insight behind it think there's some insight behind it which is I mean if you're going to do

which is I mean if you're going to do which is I mean if you're going to do digital PR right the the implication is

digital PR right the the implication is digital PR right the the implication is that you actually have to put a lot of

that you actually have to put a lot of that you actually have to put a lot of upfront work and I mean when you look at

upfront work and I mean when you look at upfront work and I mean when you look at parasite SEO and AI content it's not

parasite SEO and AI content it's not parasite SEO and AI content it's not upfront work it's a little bit of work

upfront work it's a little bit of work upfront work it's a little bit of work trying to get the maximum gain as a as

trying to get the maximum gain as a as trying to get the maximum gain as a as opposed to putting in a lot of effort

opposed to putting in a lot of effort opposed to putting in a lot of effort maybe not knowing what where it's going maybe not knowing what where it's going maybe not knowing what where it's going to pay off but it just seems like not a

to pay off but it just seems like not a to pay off but it just seems like not a lot of people are doing digital PR and

lot of people are doing digital PR and lot of people are doing digital PR and when you listen to the tactics of people

when you listen to the tactics of people when you listen to the tactics of people like you know Gabriel uh kov and FY

like you know Gabriel uh kov and FY like you know Gabriel uh kov and FY kazone it's uh I I get excited hearing

kazone it's uh I I get excited hearing kazone it's uh I I get excited hearing about some of the strategies they use

about some of the strategies they use about some of the strategies they use for for building links in a quality

for for building links in a quality for for building links in a quality manner yeah for me ferry in particular

manner yeah for me ferry in particular manner yeah for me ferry in particular the guy is genius what he does with uh

the guy is genius what he does with uh the guy is genius what he does with uh with his digital pi and not just him I'm

with his digital pi and not just him I'm with his digital pi and not just him I'm seeing several other names pop up Chris

seeing several other names pop up Chris seeing several other names pop up Chris pantelli and Nick Nick BS from linkify

pantelli and Nick Nick BS from linkify pantelli and Nick Nick BS from linkify these boys have you know a similar view

these boys have you know a similar view these boys have you know a similar view of building their digital PR links you

of building their digital PR links you of building their digital PR links you know their smash out links left right

know their smash out links left right know their smash out links left right and center and you know another a name

and center and you know another a name and center and you know another a name to watch out for really but what ferry

to watch out for really but what ferry to watch out for really but what ferry has done is just just changed the

has done is just just changed the has done is just just changed the industry you know does it take a longer

industry you know does it take a longer industry you know does it take a longer period in terms of turnaround times of

period in terms of turnaround times of period in terms of turnaround times of course it does but that's that's exactly

course it does but that's that's exactly course it does but that's that's exactly what Google wants is lots of homework

what Google wants is lots of homework what Google wants is lots of homework being done lots of fantastic content

being done lots of fantastic content being done lots of fantastic content being created you know innovative ways

being created you know innovative ways being created you know innovative ways which don't break Google's guidelines in

which don't break Google's guidelines in which don't break Google's guidelines in order to get that maximum link juice as

order to get that maximum link juice as order to get that maximum link juice as we all talk about in order to move the

we all talk about in order to move the we all talk about in order to move the needle so I'm a big fan of Ferry he'll

needle so I'm a big fan of Ferry he'll needle so I'm a big fan of Ferry he'll be actually visiting and speaking at our

be actually visiting and speaking at our be actually visiting and speaking at our conference in Poland in May uh I've met

conference in Poland in May uh I've met conference in Poland in May uh I've met him couple of times you know he's become him couple of times you know he's become him couple of times you know he's become a good mate

a good mate a good mate um yeah I'd love to learn more from

um yeah I'd love to learn more from um yeah I'd love to learn more from Ferry not to mention all his parody

Ferry not to mention all his parody Ferry not to mention all his parody videos he makes you know yeah a Str

videos he makes you know yeah a Str videos he makes you know yeah a Str stroke a stroke a stroke a genius yeah I mean in terms of like you

genius yeah I mean in terms of like you genius yeah I mean in terms of like you know content creation which you know

know content creation which you know know content creation which you know you've got a lot of experience on and you've got a lot of experience on and you've got a lot of experience on and that's kind of uh more your skill set it

that's kind of uh more your skill set it that's kind of uh more your skill set it just seems like you know for building

just seems like you know for building just seems like you know for building the right content you have to well it's

the right content you have to well it's the right content you have to well it's not just a you know putting in the the

not just a you know putting in the the not just a you know putting in the the time and effort it's like you need to time and effort it's like you need to time and effort it's like you need to get get a story out and sometimes the

get get a story out and sometimes the get get a story out and sometimes the story is tactics like what fery does or

story is tactics like what fery does or story is tactics like what fery does or sometimes you got to just do some sometimes you got to just do some sometimes you got to just do some research and saying I'm G to compile

research and saying I'm G to compile research and saying I'm G to compile this this guide or create a data set

this this guide or create a data set this this guide or create a data set that doesn't exist and yeah we don't see

that doesn't exist and yeah we don't see that doesn't exist and yeah we don't see enough of that I I've I've heard in the

enough of that I I've I've heard in the enough of that I I've I've heard in the fiip marketing space that uh the

fiip marketing space that uh the fiip marketing space that uh the Publishers they're begging for these Publishers they're begging for these Publishers they're begging for these data stories and whenever you have one

data stories and whenever you have one data stories and whenever you have one they're they can take it and they can they're they can take it and they can they're they can take it and they can spin it into a lot of stuff I agree I

spin it into a lot of stuff I agree I spin it into a lot of stuff I agree I agree and end of the day that's what agree and end of the day that's what agree and end of the day that's what Google wants maximum user engagement

Google wants maximum user engagement Google wants maximum user engagement content being pushed out which is useful

content being pushed out which is useful content being pushed out which is useful based on the keywords you know an end

based on the keywords you know an end based on the keywords you know an end user is is is is typing in so yes I

user is is is is typing in so yes I user is is is is typing in so yes I agree and that's why that human agree and that's why that human agree and that's why that human involvement is so important mixed with a

involvement is so important mixed with a involvement is so important mixed with a bit of AI in there you need to do uh the

bit of AI in there you need to do uh the bit of AI in there you need to do uh the research you need to come up with

research you need to come up with research you need to come up with amazing angles there uh in order to you

amazing angles there uh in order to you amazing angles there uh in order to you know keep that user on that page on that

know keep that user on that page on that know keep that user on that page on that website for long and I think people like

website for long and I think people like website for long and I think people like Ferry people like Chris people like

Ferry people like Chris people like Ferry people like Chris people like Gabriela these guys are are the ones who

Gabriela these guys are are the ones who Gabriela these guys are are the ones who do it really well um yeah but it'll be

do it really well um yeah but it'll be do it really well um yeah but it'll be interesting uh as how it's going to pan

interesting uh as how it's going to pan interesting uh as how it's going to pan out because if that's

out because if that's out because if that's what is the future of link building in

what is the future of link building in what is the future of link building in majority in terms of digital PR the

majority in terms of digital PR the majority in terms of digital PR the competition is just going to grow competition is just going to grow competition is just going to grow because a lot of people will move their because a lot of people will move their because a lot of people will move their budgets into digital PR which means

budgets into digital PR which means budgets into digital PR which means there's more there's more there's more competition but is there enough Talent

competition but is there enough Talent competition but is there enough Talent out there in the market to absorb all

out there in the market to absorb all out there in the market to absorb all those those budgets as well so yes these

those those budgets as well so yes these those those budgets as well so yes these are troubl times people are talking

are troubl times people are talking are troubl times people are talking about but for me out of every chaos

about but for me out of every chaos about but for me out of every chaos There's an opportunity which arises and

There's an opportunity which arises and There's an opportunity which arises and I I'm I'm in a way a lot of I'm I'm I'm

I I'm I'm in a way a lot of I'm I'm I'm I I'm I'm in a way a lot of I'm I'm I'm in a way excited you know commiserations

in a way excited you know commiserations in a way excited you know commiserations to people of course who their websites

to people of course who their websites to people of course who their websites have been hit and I'm 100% with them you

have been hit and I'm 100% with them you have been hit and I'm 100% with them you know we're all in the same SEO space in

know we're all in the same SEO space in know we're all in the same SEO space in the SEO Community we help each other yet

the SEO Community we help each other yet the SEO Community we help each other yet I'm looking at what the future holds

I'm looking at what the future holds I'm looking at what the future holds after this chaotic period yeah but I

after this chaotic period yeah but I after this chaotic period yeah but I mean I kind of look at a company like mean I kind of look at a company like mean I kind of look at a company like white press and Go the whole ecosystem

white press and Go the whole ecosystem white press and Go the whole ecosystem you have a business that can scale and

you have a business that can scale and you have a business that can scale and kind of weather any storm so I think

kind of weather any storm so I think kind of weather any storm so I think you're always going to be in a fortunate

you're always going to be in a fortunate you're always going to be in a fortunate position there thanks John thanks yeah I

position there thanks John thanks yeah I position there thanks John thanks yeah I mean our platform is amazing you know

mean our platform is amazing you know mean our platform is amazing you know the audio was to give 100% transparency

the audio was to give 100% transparency the audio was to give 100% transparency to all the SEO agencies or the brands

to all the SEO agencies or the brands to all the SEO agencies or the brands out there wanting to do link building uh

out there wanting to do link building uh out there wanting to do link building uh and that was the idea to scale it you

and that was the idea to scale it you and that was the idea to scale it you know we started the company 11 years ago

know we started the company 11 years ago know we started the company 11 years ago and being a really small startup in

and being a really small startup in and being a really small startup in Poland to now operating in 30 different

Poland to now operating in 30 different Poland to now operating in 30 different countries uh you know 12 physical

countries uh you know 12 physical countries uh you know 12 physical offices around the world we publish

offices around the world we publish offices around the world we publish upwards of what upwards of what upwards of what 15,000 guest posts or Niche edits every

15,000 guest posts or Niche edits every 15,000 guest posts or Niche edits every month you know but all done with

month you know but all done with month you know but all done with Precision all done as close to white hat

Precision all done as close to white hat Precision all done as close to white hat as possible so that you know we don't

as possible so that you know we don't as possible so that you know we don't end up hitting our clients websites

end up hitting our clients websites end up hitting our clients websites every time there's there's an algo

every time there's there's an algo every time there's there's an algo update um but of course it comes with a

update um but of course it comes with a update um but of course it comes with a lot of Blood Sweat and Tears you know it

lot of Blood Sweat and Tears you know it lot of Blood Sweat and Tears you know it does come with a lot of human engagement

does come with a lot of human engagement does come with a lot of human engagement we got 200 people working you know uh

we got 200 people working you know uh we got 200 people working you know uh that sometimes is just a beast on its

that sometimes is just a beast on its that sometimes is just a beast on its own trying to manage expectations people

own trying to manage expectations people own trying to manage expectations people working remotely people in the office

working remotely people in the office working remotely people in the office you know you know it I mean you know

you know you know it I mean you know you know you know it I mean you know it's it's it's not a it's not an easy

it's it's it's not a it's not an easy it's it's it's not a it's not an easy bowl game when it comes to big companies

bowl game when it comes to big companies bowl game when it comes to big companies you know doing 30 40 odd million euros

you know doing 30 40 odd million euros you know doing 30 40 odd million euros um uh turnover annually uh but yeah

um uh turnover annually uh but yeah um uh turnover annually uh but yeah can't be can't be more excited though

can't be can't be more excited though can't be can't be more excited though yeah I can almost relate as uh as a

yeah I can almost relate as uh as a yeah I can almost relate as uh as a company of 10 people but that's a a

company of 10 people but that's a a company of 10 people but that's a a whole other ball game so yeah I wanted

whole other ball game so yeah I wanted whole other ball game so yeah I wanted to ask you about what do you see as the

to ask you about what do you see as the to ask you about what do you see as the current trends of like Niche edits

current trends of like Niche edits current trends of like Niche edits versus guest posting yeah

versus guest posting yeah versus guest posting yeah so as I was saying you know we we saw

so as I was saying you know we we saw so as I was saying you know we we saw after the previous September update and

after the previous September update and after the previous September update and then speeding up a bit more after the

then speeding up a bit more after the then speeding up a bit more after the November update last year where people

November update last year where people November update last year where people started pushing more towards Niche edits

started pushing more towards Niche edits started pushing more towards Niche edits and I think that was driven a bit and I think that was driven a bit and I think that was driven a bit through by the other resio influences

through by the other resio influences through by the other resio influences out there in the market especially after

out there in the market especially after out there in the market especially after the changai conference uh I

the changai conference uh I the changai conference uh I wasn't really listening to the talks too

wasn't really listening to the talks too wasn't really listening to the talks too much because white press had a booth much because white press had a booth much because white press had a booth outside but most of the conversations I

outside but most of the conversations I outside but most of the conversations I had with some of our new clients they

had with some of our new clients they had with some of our new clients they all kept saying there were a couple of

all kept saying there were a couple of all kept saying there were a couple of um presentations there within the link

um presentations there within the link um presentations there within the link building space where people kept talking

building space where people kept talking building space where people kept talking you know what n shedit seems to be a lot

you know what n shedit seems to be a lot you know what n shedit seems to be a lot more safer option and a quicker option

more safer option and a quicker option more safer option and a quicker option in terms of moving the needle I still

in terms of moving the needle I still in terms of moving the needle I still think that's going to happen and I think

think that's going to happen and I think think that's going to happen and I think it's going to happen with a percentage

it's going to happen with a percentage it's going to happen with a percentage where people start investing up to 70%

where people start investing up to 70% where people start investing up to 70% of their quarterly budget into Niche

of their quarterly budget into Niche of their quarterly budget into Niche edits um probably go 15% guest posts and

edits um probably go 15% guest posts and edits um probably go 15% guest posts and the other 15 maybe 20% take a bit on

the other 15 maybe 20% take a bit on the other 15 maybe 20% take a bit on Niche edits and start doing a more

Niche edits and start doing a more Niche edits and start doing a more digital PR as well but in my opinion

digital PR as well but in my opinion digital PR as well but in my opinion these are the trends we've seen uh over

these are the trends we've seen uh over these are the trends we've seen uh over a period six to eight months and I think

a period six to eight months and I think a period six to eight months and I think Niche edits if I was a brand or I was an

Niche edits if I was a brand or I was an Niche edits if I was a brand or I was an SEO guy representing a client of mine

SEO guy representing a client of mine SEO guy representing a client of mine Niche edits anytime any day and my

Niche edits anytime any day and my Niche edits anytime any day and my thoughts uh maybe you can correct me if

thoughts uh maybe you can correct me if thoughts uh maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong or maybe I'm on the right line

I'm wrong or maybe I'm on the right line I'm wrong or maybe I'm on the right line of thinking would you say a knee shed it

of thinking would you say a knee shed it of thinking would you say a knee shed it was is kind of more like the bottom of

was is kind of more like the bottom of was is kind of more like the bottom of uh the funnel content where I mean like

uh the funnel content where I mean like uh the funnel content where I mean like a guest post is typically your pseudo

a guest post is typically your pseudo a guest post is typically your pseudo Topp of funnel yes yes yes I agree I

Topp of funnel yes yes yes I agree I Topp of funnel yes yes yes I agree I agree with that um you know guest

agree with that um you know guest agree with that um you know guest posting yes you get a lot more freedom

posting yes you get a lot more freedom posting yes you get a lot more freedom you know you can you can you know create

you know you can you can you know create you know you can you can you know create a Content the way you want to Niche

a Content the way you want to Niche a Content the way you want to Niche edits there are restrictions there for

edits there are restrictions there for edits there are restrictions there for sure but I think in terms of value for

sure but I think in terms of value for sure but I think in terms of value for money the ROI and everything you know I

money the ROI and everything you know I money the ROI and everything you know I would still pick uh nich edits um I know

would still pick uh nich edits um I know would still pick uh nich edits um I know some of the biggest names in the

some of the biggest names in the some of the biggest names in the industry who run multi-million pound

industry who run multi-million pound industry who run multi-million pound agencies out there uh where link

agencies out there uh where link agencies out there uh where link building is an active part of their building is an active part of their building is an active part of their revenue stream they all do nich edits

revenue stream they all do nich edits revenue stream they all do nich edits all of them yeah uh going full circle

all of them yeah uh going full circle all of them yeah uh going full circle back to parasite SEO or maybe it's not

back to parasite SEO or maybe it's not back to parasite SEO or maybe it's not even parasite SEO it's like I created a

even parasite SEO it's like I created a even parasite SEO it's like I created a subreddit or a Reddit channel for

subreddit or a Reddit channel for subreddit or a Reddit channel for affiliate software and obviously this

affiliate software and obviously this affiliate software and obviously this was a week ago where this was all flying

was a week ago where this was all flying was a week ago where this was all flying high everyone was talking about how much high everyone was talking about how much high everyone was talking about how much traffic cor and Reddit are getting and I

traffic cor and Reddit are getting and I traffic cor and Reddit are getting and I still think they are but it's kind of still think they are but it's kind of still think they are but it's kind of funny that as of like a couple days ago

funny that as of like a couple days ago funny that as of like a couple days ago the traffic uh it was flying and then it

the traffic uh it was flying and then it the traffic uh it was flying and then it kind of went down um would you still say

kind of went down um would you still say kind of went down um would you still say that stuff like this is a good strategy

that stuff like this is a good strategy that stuff like this is a good strategy and just to add a bit more context the

and just to add a bit more context the and just to add a bit more context the the Reddit Channel I created was more of

the Reddit Channel I created was more of the Reddit Channel I created was more of a bottom of funnel and I actually think

a bottom of funnel and I actually think a bottom of funnel and I actually think it's getting real and legit traffic

it's getting real and legit traffic it's getting real and legit traffic which is you know I'm actually excited

which is you know I'm actually excited which is you know I'm actually excited about doing something that looks like

about doing something that looks like about doing something that looks like it's small potatoes but actually has

it's small potatoes but actually has it's small potatoes but actually has more value yeah um proceed with caution

more value yeah um proceed with caution more value yeah um proceed with caution is what I would say you know things

is what I would say you know things is what I would say you know things which have been working which are still

which have been working which are still which have been working which are still working um

working um working um it all comes down to relevance uh end of

it all comes down to relevance uh end of it all comes down to relevance uh end of the day you know if the end results are

the day you know if the end results are the day you know if the end results are what your channel and your strategy

what your channel and your strategy what your channel and your strategy demands is is matching what Google

demands is is matching what Google demands is is matching what Google guidelines are especially during the

guidelines are especially during the guidelines are especially during the update I would say continue doing it uh

update I would say continue doing it uh update I would say continue doing it uh you know I've been having charts with

you know I've been having charts with you know I've been having charts with Charles float recently we've been

Charles float recently we've been Charles float recently we've been talking a lot about the Reddit and all

talking a lot about the Reddit and all talking a lot about the Reddit and all of that and he says exactly the same

of that and he says exactly the same of that and he says exactly the same thing is keep doing if you not hit as of

thing is keep doing if you not hit as of thing is keep doing if you not hit as of now and even if you have a bit of a

now and even if you have a bit of a now and even if you have a bit of a downward Trend as long as it's not

downward Trend as long as it's not downward Trend as long as it's not falling off a cliff the traffic then

falling off a cliff the traffic then falling off a cliff the traffic then clearly there's no point in changing or

clearly there's no point in changing or clearly there's no point in changing or Reinventing the wheel so I would

Reinventing the wheel so I would Reinventing the wheel so I would recommend do what you're doing but recommend do what you're doing but recommend do what you're doing but proceed with ction so I got a the next

proceed with ction so I got a the next proceed with ction so I got a the next question is more about kind of I mean

question is more about kind of I mean question is more about kind of I mean you guys with white press you're always you guys with white press you're always you guys with white press you're always supporting the SEO community and I had

supporting the SEO community and I had supporting the SEO community and I had Mark right on as a guest who said The

Mark right on as a guest who said The Mark right on as a guest who said The Secret of his success was being able to

Secret of his success was being able to Secret of his success was being able to sell SEO and simplify it in a way that

sell SEO and simplify it in a way that sell SEO and simplify it in a way that of makes sense and he said a lot of seos

of makes sense and he said a lot of seos of makes sense and he said a lot of seos they they just go straight into too much

they they just go straight into too much they they just go straight into too much jargon and they're trying to show off

jargon and they're trying to show off jargon and they're trying to show off but it ends up having the opposite

but it ends up having the opposite but it ends up having the opposite effects so what would you say are good

effects so what would you say are good effects so what would you say are good tips for people to sell SEO to people

tips for people to sell SEO to people tips for people to sell SEO to people given that you might be helping others

given that you might be helping others given that you might be helping others kind of maybe go a little bit away from

kind of maybe go a little bit away from kind of maybe go a little bit away from White press but uh well it it's clearly

White press but uh well it it's clearly White press but uh well it it's clearly worked for you guys yes now that's where

worked for you guys yes now that's where worked for you guys yes now that's where my past experience come in the comes

my past experience come in the comes my past experience come in the comes into this picture so me you know running

into this picture so me you know running into this picture so me you know running restaurants Michin Stu back in the

restaurants Michin Stu back in the restaurants Michin Stu back in the UK uh doing a bit more B2B sales in a

UK uh doing a bit more B2B sales in a UK uh doing a bit more B2B sales in a completely different industry coming in

completely different industry coming in completely different industry coming in with new set of ideas and I'm with Mark

with new set of ideas and I'm with Mark with new set of ideas and I'm with Mark 100% SEO the moment you talk about SEO

100% SEO the moment you talk about SEO 100% SEO the moment you talk about SEO subconsciously you start thinking of the

subconsciously you start thinking of the subconsciously you start thinking of the Matrix you know so most of the technical

Matrix you know so most of the technical Matrix you know so most of the technical jargon you've got to break it down into

jargon you've got to break it down into jargon you've got to break it down into very simplified terms where people are

very simplified terms where people are very simplified terms where people are on the same frequency as you are but you

on the same frequency as you are but you on the same frequency as you are but you got to show your the the ROI these

got to show your the the ROI these got to show your the the ROI these people would get end of the day say yes

people would get end of the day say yes people would get end of the day say yes we need to build traffic yes we need to

we need to build traffic yes we need to we need to build traffic yes we need to improve the authority score on the improve the authority score on the improve the authority score on the website but what they really want is for

website but what they really want is for website but what they really want is for us to make money for them so once your

us to make money for them so once your us to make money for them so once your sales pitch is including that factor

sales pitch is including that factor sales pitch is including that factor where they could actually gain a lot of

where they could actually gain a lot of where they could actually gain a lot of Revenue with guaranteed case studies to

Revenue with guaranteed case studies to Revenue with guaranteed case studies to show but it's all done in a clear

show but it's all done in a clear show but it's all done in a clear concise uh non-technical jargon people

concise uh non-technical jargon people concise uh non-technical jargon people would connect and one of the biggest

would connect and one of the biggest would connect and one of the biggest reasons for my success for two years

reasons for my success for two years reasons for my success for two years with wi press and I'm talking to some of

with wi press and I'm talking to some of with wi press and I'm talking to some of the biggest agencies names and Brands

the biggest agencies names and Brands the biggest agencies names and Brands you know giving their campaigns to me is

you know giving their campaigns to me is you know giving their campaigns to me is I've kept it very simple and I was

I've kept it very simple and I was I've kept it very simple and I was reviewing this two days ago last week

reviewing this two days ago last week reviewing this two days ago last week where I remember when I used to do

where I remember when I used to do where I remember when I used to do Discovery onboarding calls or demo calls

Discovery onboarding calls or demo calls Discovery onboarding calls or demo calls of our platform the first 6 months I

of our platform the first 6 months I of our platform the first 6 months I used to take 30 minutes now I take 8

used to take 30 minutes now I take 8 used to take 30 minutes now I take 8 minutes because I've cut off all the

minutes because I've cut off all the minutes because I've cut off all the other jargon I was trained on by my

other jargon I was trained on by my other jargon I was trained on by my technical there in y press because I

technical there in y press because I technical there in y press because I quickly realize people don't want to

quickly realize people don't want to quickly realize people don't want to listen to all of that make it very

listen to all of that make it very listen to all of that make it very simple easy cu the more you talk and

simple easy cu the more you talk and simple easy cu the more you talk and more you explain the more questions pop

more you explain the more questions pop more you explain the more questions pop up and you don't want them you want to

up and you don't want them you want to up and you don't want them you want to be leading a conversation where it

be leading a conversation where it be leading a conversation where it simply says that's the amount I need to

simply says that's the amount I need to simply says that's the amount I need to pay because that's the pain point I'm

pay because that's the pain point I'm pay because that's the pain point I'm going to fix this pain point it's going

going to fix this pain point it's going going to fix this pain point it's going to take this much of time and the end

to take this much of time and the end to take this much of time and the end result is you can expect this much and

result is you can expect this much and result is you can expect this much and if you can all put those kind of four

if you can all put those kind of four if you can all put those kind of four factors or explanation categories in

factors or explanation categories in factors or explanation categories in very simple English you know or any

very simple English you know or any very simple English you know or any other language you speak uh it it does

other language you speak uh it it does other language you speak uh it it does the job and that's one thing I speak to

the job and that's one thing I speak to the job and that's one thing I speak to a lot of seos around the world when we

a lot of seos around the world when we a lot of seos around the world when we go on conferences when I'm having a

go on conferences when I'm having a go on conferences when I'm having a child with him I said

child with him I said child with him I said guys people don't don't want to feel

guys people don't don't want to feel guys people don't don't want to feel stupid as Mark was saying yeah it's

stupid as Mark was saying yeah it's stupid as Mark was saying yeah it's exactly it that's

exactly it that's exactly it that's brilliant yeah it's it's about having

brilliant yeah it's it's about having brilliant yeah it's it's about having that same frequency but then 5% more to

that same frequency but then 5% more to that same frequency but then 5% more to stick be tuned into you and kind of

stick be tuned into you and kind of stick be tuned into you and kind of following the moment there's a

following the moment there's a following the moment there's a disparity between what your

disparity between what your disparity between what your understanding and knowledge is compared

understanding and knowledge is compared understanding and knowledge is compared to what they are they'll just switch off

to what they are they'll just switch off to what they are they'll just switch off it's it's it's simple as that and on top

it's it's it's simple as that and on top it's it's it's simple as that and on top of that your personality plays such a

of that your personality plays such a of that your personality plays such a big part you know Mark's an amazing guy

big part you know Mark's an amazing guy big part you know Mark's an amazing guy you know people who are within sales you

you know people who are within sales you you know people who are within sales you still have to do your deliverables you still have to do your deliverables you still have to do your deliverables you still have to deliver the kpis and

still have to deliver the kpis and still have to deliver the kpis and everything but I've got a simple formula

everything but I've got a simple formula everything but I've got a simple formula people need to like you because if they

people need to like you because if they people need to like you because if they like you they'll Trust you and if they

like you they'll Trust you and if they like you they'll Trust you and if they trust you they'll give you their trust you they'll give you their trust you they'll give you their business but that Journey from the first

business but that Journey from the first business but that Journey from the first call to them liking you that's the most

call to them liking you that's the most call to them liking you that's the most that's the toughest part and a lot of

that's the toughest part and a lot of that's the toughest part and a lot of seos out there perhaps don't don't have

seos out there perhaps don't don't have seos out there perhaps don't don't have that switch in them and there are lots

that switch in them and there are lots that switch in them and there are lots of little things you know responding uh

of little things you know responding uh of little things you know responding uh to emails to texts to phone calls within

to emails to texts to phone calls within to emails to texts to phone calls within 10 15 minutes you know being for them

10 15 minutes you know being for them 10 15 minutes you know being for them all the time when things go wrong even

all the time when things go wrong even all the time when things go wrong even though you know your client might have

though you know your client might have though you know your client might have made that mistake rather than pushing it

made that mistake rather than pushing it made that mistake rather than pushing it back onto them you take that ownership

back onto them you take that ownership back onto them you take that ownership and responsibility you know dish out

and responsibility you know dish out and responsibility you know dish out favors to them you know all that comes

favors to them you know all that comes favors to them you know all that comes into relationship building which then

into relationship building which then into relationship building which then drives business end of the day we're all

drives business end of the day we're all drives business end of the day we're all humans emotional animals you know if you

humans emotional animals you know if you humans emotional animals you know if you hit the emotional strings in an honest

hit the emotional strings in an honest hit the emotional strings in an honest way people would like you yeah and the

way people would like you yeah and the way people would like you yeah and the irony for that is when they when you've

irony for that is when they when you've irony for that is when they when you've clicked with them in the emotional sense

clicked with them in the emotional sense clicked with them in the emotional sense they'll use logic to rationalize where

they'll use logic to rationalize where they'll use logic to rationalize where they're doing business with you even they're doing business with you even they're doing business with you even though it's actually emotional correct

though it's actually emotional correct though it's actually emotional correct so I'm going to take a lot of notes here

so I'm going to take a lot of notes here so I'm going to take a lot of notes here that what you've said is great for seos

that what you've said is great for seos that what you've said is great for seos but I actually believe the same is true

but I actually believe the same is true but I actually believe the same is true for SAS companies like ourselves and I'm

for SAS companies like ourselves and I'm for SAS companies like ourselves and I'm G to spend a little bit of time later

G to spend a little bit of time later G to spend a little bit of time later today looking at the white press website

today looking at the white press website today looking at the white press website to go how do let's reverse engineer uh

to go how do let's reverse engineer uh to go how do let's reverse engineer uh their success strategies and I actually

their success strategies and I actually their success strategies and I actually I'm sure I'll be able to copy a lot of

I'm sure I'll be able to copy a lot of I'm sure I'll be able to copy a lot of ideas uh that would apply to SAS

ideas uh that would apply to SAS ideas uh that would apply to SAS companies brilliant brilliant so yeah I

companies brilliant brilliant so yeah I companies brilliant brilliant so yeah I just want to uh finish off with what's

just want to uh finish off with what's just want to uh finish off with what's next for you and what do you have as

next for you and what do you have as next for you and what do you have as ations for this year and

ations for this year and ations for this year and next this is going to be challenging

next this is going to be challenging next this is going to be challenging even though it's exciting uh and then

even though it's exciting uh and then even though it's exciting uh and then Google update has just you know thrown a

Google update has just you know thrown a Google update has just you know thrown a spanner in the works there obviously

spanner in the works there obviously spanner in the works there obviously lots of conferences this year uh cuz

lots of conferences this year uh cuz lots of conferences this year uh cuz white press started its own events brand

white press started its own events brand white press started its own events brand called U wibes we've got 18 events

called U wibes we've got 18 events called U wibes we've got 18 events planned this year I've got no idea how

planned this year I've got no idea how planned this year I've got no idea how we're going to pull it off uh I'm

we're going to pull it off uh I'm we're going to pull it off uh I'm obviously not going to all the 18 cuz

obviously not going to all the 18 cuz obviously not going to all the 18 cuz I'm just going to end up getting I'm just going to end up getting I'm just going to end up getting divorced cuz my wife's going to kick me

divorced cuz my wife's going to kick me divorced cuz my wife's going to kick me out but I'm going to all the biggest

out but I'm going to all the biggest out but I'm going to all the biggest English ones uh all the international

English ones uh all the international English ones uh all the international ones so whether it's the Vietnam Matt

ones so whether it's the Vietnam Matt ones so whether it's the Vietnam Matt singer event early next month uh Robert

singer event early next month uh Robert singer event early next month uh Robert Nells one happening end of this month um

Nells one happening end of this month um Nells one happening end of this month um we will be doing another big one with a

we will be doing another big one with a we will be doing another big one with a partner in Cyprus in October which is

partner in Cyprus in October which is partner in Cyprus in October which is going to be all about link building

going to be all about link building going to be all about link building we've potentially signed another partner

we've potentially signed another partner we've potentially signed another partner to perhaps crack the

to perhaps crack the to perhaps crack the asianchinese market because we know

asianchinese market because we know asianchinese market because we know that's where the money is at this stage

that's where the money is at this stage that's where the money is at this stage you know it's all about scaling up

you know it's all about scaling up you know it's all about scaling up getting to my annual Targets this

getting to my annual Targets this getting to my annual Targets this year to be honest learning more about

year to be honest learning more about year to be honest learning more about SEO the technical SEO part of things you

SEO the technical SEO part of things you SEO the technical SEO part of things you know your topical mapping your semantic

know your topical mapping your semantic know your topical mapping your semantic seos and all of that asking millions of

seos and all of that asking millions of seos and all of that asking millions of questions to corai for example again a

questions to corai for example again a questions to corai for example again a good ma of mind you know probably

good ma of mind you know probably good ma of mind you know probably attending few more courses you know I've

attending few more courses you know I've attending few more courses you know I've enjoyed my journey so far within the

enjoyed my journey so far within the enjoyed my journey so far within the space of Link building but SEO is so

space of Link building but SEO is so space of Link building but SEO is so much more and I think I'm at that point

much more and I think I'm at that point much more and I think I'm at that point where at Le

where at Le where at Le within my markets my business is safe

within my markets my business is safe within my markets my business is safe and strong and I've got strong sales

and strong and I've got strong sales and strong and I've got strong sales leaders in place it's now me elevating a

leaders in place it's now me elevating a leaders in place it's now me elevating a my own brand by going to several events

my own brand by going to several events my own brand by going to several events obviously white press leveraging through

obviously white press leveraging through obviously white press leveraging through it but also for me to get more knowledge

it but also for me to get more knowledge it but also for me to get more knowledge where you know when I I can easily walk

where you know when I I can easily walk where you know when I I can easily walk into podcasts and webinars and talk in a

into podcasts and webinars and talk in a into podcasts and webinars and talk in a very convincing manner about the

very convincing manner about the very convincing manner about the technical SEO part of stuff so yeah and

technical SEO part of stuff so yeah and technical SEO part of stuff so yeah and then what happens 2025 26 who knows mate

then what happens 2025 26 who knows mate then what happens 2025 26 who knows mate you yeah Life's a mystery so my last

you yeah Life's a mystery so my last you yeah Life's a mystery so my last question which I ask every guest and you

question which I ask every guest and you question which I ask every guest and you could probably literally answer with one

could probably literally answer with one could probably literally answer with one word which is cuto as you know these

word which is cuto as you know these word which is cuto as you know these types of SEO tools are in my mind the

types of SEO tools are in my mind the types of SEO tools are in my mind the original business intelligence tools and

original business intelligence tools and original business intelligence tools and affiliate marketing so what do you see

affiliate marketing so what do you see affiliate marketing so what do you see as the future of um affiliate marketing

as the future of um affiliate marketing as the future of um affiliate marketing as it intersects with business

intelligence you can say Seno and just intelligence you can say Seno and just like leave it like leave it like leave it there I would probably say AO then uh

there I would probably say AO then uh there I would probably say AO then uh cuz this this seems to bridge the gap uh

cuz this this seems to bridge the gap uh cuz this this seems to bridge the gap uh between these two industries but kind of

between these two industries but kind of between these two industries but kind of if I had to dig in slightly more deeper

um yeah yeah maybe the to just kind of um yeah yeah maybe the to just kind of intersect because it's like I know with

intersect because it's like I know with intersect because it's like I know with h refs and I'm sure s Rush does it and I

h refs and I'm sure s Rush does it and I h refs and I'm sure s Rush does it and I wouldn't be surprised Seno probably has

wouldn't be surprised Seno probably has wouldn't be surprised Seno probably has it I mean these tools are so Advanced

it I mean these tools are so Advanced it I mean these tools are so Advanced that you can even export the stuff into

that you can even export the stuff into that you can even export the stuff into looker studio and build even crazier

looker studio and build even crazier looker studio and build even crazier dashboards I just think that what we

dashboards I just think that what we dashboards I just think that what we have today is so immense and Powerful

have today is so immense and Powerful have today is so immense and Powerful it's kind of like where do you start but

it's kind of like where do you start but it's kind of like where do you start but we're seeing people like Kai uh take

we're seeing people like Kai uh take we're seeing people like Kai uh take these things and kind of turn them into

these things and kind of turn them into these things and kind of turn them into like not just businesses but kind of

like not just businesses but kind of like not just businesses but kind of like uh like sub Industries within SEO

like uh like sub Industries within SEO like uh like sub Industries within SEO yeah but I I think with within the

yeah but I I think with within the yeah but I I think with within the affiliate marketing space and I could be

affiliate marketing space and I could be affiliate marketing space and I could be wrong I get a Feeling Again as an

wrong I get a Feeling Again as an wrong I get a Feeling Again as an outsider because I still consider myself

outsider because I still consider myself outsider because I still consider myself as an outsider within the SEO space

as an outsider within the SEO space as an outsider within the SEO space being only in it for two years affiliate

being only in it for two years affiliate being only in it for two years affiliate marketing thing does need a bit of a

marketing thing does need a bit of a marketing thing does need a bit of a revolution in my opinion it needs a lot

revolution in my opinion it needs a lot revolution in my opinion it needs a lot more technology being interfaced into

more technology being interfaced into more technology being interfaced into affiliate sites where the journey

affiliate sites where the journey affiliate sites where the journey becomes a lot more seamless whether it's

becomes a lot more seamless whether it's becomes a lot more seamless whether it's onboarding continuation more Revenue

onboarding continuation more Revenue onboarding continuation more Revenue generation leads whatever that might be

generation leads whatever that might be generation leads whatever that might be I apart from cuto I think in general

I apart from cuto I think in general I apart from cuto I think in general anyways the industry is screaming out

anyways the industry is screaming out anyways the industry is screaming out for an absolutely revolutionary tool

for an absolutely revolutionary tool for an absolutely revolutionary tool which will just help affiliate marketers

which will just help affiliate marketers which will just help affiliate marketers I still feel affiliate marketing at

I still feel affiliate marketing at I still feel affiliate marketing at times

times times becomes very conservative there's

becomes very conservative there's becomes very conservative there's there's whatever knowledge is there it's

there's whatever knowledge is there it's there's whatever knowledge is there it's kind of never given out it's a bit more

kind of never given out it's a bit more kind of never given out it's a bit more secretive so to speak as compared to the

secretive so to speak as compared to the secretive so to speak as compared to the genuine SEO Community uh but and that

genuine SEO Community uh but and that genuine SEO Community uh but and that could be because of the lack of tools

could be because of the lack of tools could be because of the lack of tools out there uh I I think you hit the nail

out there uh I I think you hit the nail out there uh I I think you hit the nail on the head there it's uh I do agree

on the head there it's uh I do agree on the head there it's uh I do agree what you said is true it you're you're

what you said is true it you're you're what you said is true it you're you're saying it as if you've been in affiliate saying it as if you've been in affiliate saying it as if you've been in affiliate marketing for 10 to 20 years but it's I

marketing for 10 to 20 years but it's I marketing for 10 to 20 years but it's I I see it from my side and I agree I

I see it from my side and I agree I I see it from my side and I agree I think uh the only tools we do have are

think uh the only tools we do have are think uh the only tools we do have are the SEO tools but I think there's a

the SEO tools but I think there's a the SEO tools but I think there's a there's definitely a lot more that's there's definitely a lot more that's there's definitely a lot more that's missing and you're right about um yeah

missing and you're right about um yeah missing and you're right about um yeah kind of a affiliate marketing today is a

kind of a affiliate marketing today is a kind of a affiliate marketing today is a little bit Elementary it's tracking

little bit Elementary it's tracking little bit Elementary it's tracking links it's content I mean that's kind of

links it's content I mean that's kind of links it's content I mean that's kind of the basics but where's it leveling up

the basics but where's it leveling up the basics but where's it leveling up you go to the SEO space and the

you go to the SEO space and the you go to the SEO space and the conversations they're two different

conversations they're two different conversations they're two different worlds Worlds Apart correct correct so

worlds Worlds Apart correct correct so worlds Worlds Apart correct correct so John maybe that could be one of your new

John maybe that could be one of your new John maybe that could be one of your new projects who knows H you can start

projects who knows H you can start projects who knows H you can start working we are we already have a couple

working we are we already have a couple working we are we already have a couple of those projects in mind so I'll share

of those projects in mind so I'll share of those projects in mind so I'll share them and I'm sure we're going to run them and I'm sure we're going to run them and I'm sure we're going to run into each other at a few of these SEO

into each other at a few of these SEO into each other at a few of these SEO conferences so I'm going to pass it back

conferences so I'm going to pass it back conferences so I'm going to pass it back to you Stephen to say thank you for

to you Stephen to say thank you for to you Stephen to say thank you for doing this and how can people get a hold

doing this and how can people get a hold doing this and how can people get a hold of you and we'll also include those

of you and we'll also include those of you and we'll also include those links in the show notes brilliant uh

links in the show notes brilliant uh links in the show notes brilliant uh many thanks for having me here I'm very

many thanks for having me here I'm very many thanks for having me here I'm very active on LinkedIn uh Stephen K or just

active on LinkedIn uh Stephen K or just active on LinkedIn uh Stephen K or just go on to White press's website hit on

go on to White press's website hit on go on to White press's website hit on the English um uh landing page there

the English um uh landing page there the English um uh landing page there you'll see my telephone number there I'm

you'll see my telephone number there I'm you'll see my telephone number there I'm on hundreds of WhatsApp groups when it

on hundreds of WhatsApp groups when it on hundreds of WhatsApp groups when it comes to your communities just you know

comes to your communities just you know comes to your communities just you know I'm sure someone would have my telephone

I'm sure someone would have my telephone I'm sure someone would have my telephone number anyways but LinkedIn is the

number anyways but LinkedIn is the number anyways but LinkedIn is the easiest route to get to me brilliant

easiest route to get to me brilliant easiest route to get to me brilliant thank you so much brilliant look thanks

thank you so much brilliant look thanks thank you so much brilliant look thanks thanks a lot for having me cheers thank

thanks a lot for having me cheers thank thanks a lot for having me cheers thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi

you for tuning in to the affiliate bi you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to

podcast I'd like to take this time to podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to leave a Reading

ask for a small favor to leave a Reading ask for a small favor to leave a Reading and Review wherever you listen to your

and Review wherever you listen to your and Review wherever you listen to your podcast that helps us expand our reach

podcast that helps us expand our reach podcast that helps us expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories

to rank higher in podcast directories to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more listeners