Affiliate Networks 2.0: Why Services, Data and Relationships Matter with Alessandro Gherardi

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networks, and affiliate programs. networks, and affiliate programs. Welcome to revenue optimization with

Welcome to revenue optimization with Welcome to revenue optimization with Stats. We're chatting with Alessandro

Stats. We're chatting with Alessandro Stats. We're chatting with Alessandro Gardi from Fuanto Agency and today we're

Gardi from Fuanto Agency and today we're Gardi from Fuanto Agency and today we're going to talk about affiliate networks

going to talk about affiliate networks going to talk about affiliate networks and it's a topic I'm pretty passionate

and it's a topic I'm pretty passionate and it's a topic I'm pretty passionate about these days. So, uh, Aleandro, uh,

about these days. So, uh, Aleandro, uh, about these days. So, uh, Aleandro, uh, welcome to the show.

welcome to the show. welcome to the show. >> Thank you, John. Uh, thank you for this

>> Thank you, John. Uh, thank you for this >> Thank you, John. Uh, thank you for this opportunity uh, to having me in the the

opportunity uh, to having me in the the opportunity uh, to having me in the the podcast and hi everyone.

podcast and hi everyone. podcast and hi everyone. >> Yeah. So, let's start with the obvious

>> Yeah. So, let's start with the obvious >> Yeah. So, let's start with the obvious where it's like we get a chance to talk

where it's like we get a chance to talk where it's like we get a chance to talk about your affiliate network. um what

about your affiliate network. um what about your affiliate network. um what did you do to try to make your network

did you do to try to make your network did you do to try to make your network different or you know why should people

different or you know why should people different or you know why should people consider your network when the last time

consider your network when the last time consider your network when the last time I check I mean there's like thousands of I check I mean there's like thousands of I check I mean there's like thousands of networks out there

networks out there networks out there >> yeah that that's a good question um

>> yeah that that's a good question um >> yeah that that's a good question um right now we are focusing to offer

right now we are focusing to offer right now we are focusing to offer services to affiliates uh to offer

services to affiliates uh to offer services to affiliates uh to offer events to offer I gaming conference

events to offer I gaming conference events to offer I gaming conference tickets to offer for example football

tickets to offer for example football tickets to offer for example football matches and

matches and matches and uh we we are we are closing some

uh we we are we are closing some uh we we are we are closing some partnership as well with um uh with with

partnership as well with um uh with with partnership as well with um uh with with some advertising platform that we we can

some advertising platform that we we can some advertising platform that we we can we can give the access to our affiliates

we can give the access to our affiliates we can give the access to our affiliates to and to have discounts for them. Uh we

to and to have discounts for them. Uh we to and to have discounts for them. Uh we are closing also some uh we are having

are closing also some uh we are having are closing also some uh we are having some courses uh from regula regulation

some courses uh from regula regulation some courses uh from regula regulation in in for example in Brazil to to offer

in in for example in Brazil to to offer in in for example in Brazil to to offer our affiliates the the possibility to to

our affiliates the the possibility to to our affiliates the the possibility to to get to know the course with a with a

get to know the course with a with a get to know the course with a with a discount for example. So uh the thing is

discount for example. So uh the thing is discount for example. So uh the thing is affiliate can can find campaigns and

affiliate can can find campaigns and affiliate can can find campaigns and good good payouts good offers everywhere

good good payouts good offers everywhere good good payouts good offers everywhere but the these kind of related services

but the these kind of related services but the these kind of related services are very important to to offer to make

are very important to to offer to make are very important to to offer to make their their life easier. Let's say that

their their life easier. Let's say that their their life easier. Let's say that >> then then you're feeding right into my

>> then then you're feeding right into my >> then then you're feeding right into my next question which is kind of like I I

next question which is kind of like I I next question which is kind of like I I wrote an article last year called

wrote an article last year called wrote an article last year called affiliate network 2.0 you know, which is

affiliate network 2.0 you know, which is affiliate network 2.0 you know, which is the evolution of the affiliate network.

the evolution of the affiliate network. the evolution of the affiliate network. And I think there's a lot of networks And I think there's a lot of networks And I think there's a lot of networks that they're not evolving at all. And I

that they're not evolving at all. And I that they're not evolving at all. And I actually believe what you just said is

actually believe what you just said is actually believe what you just said is one of the key differentiators. It's the

one of the key differentiators. It's the one of the key differentiators. It's the services part. It's I know I can build

services part. It's I know I can build services part. It's I know I can build my my websites with any way I want with

my my websites with any way I want with my my websites with any way I want with the tools I want, but the second you

the tools I want, but the second you the tools I want, but the second you start adding tools, you start adding

start adding tools, you start adding start adding tools, you start adding value. And it goes without it saying, if

value. And it goes without it saying, if value. And it goes without it saying, if you build a tool for one affiliate, you build a tool for one affiliate, you build a tool for one affiliate, that's great. But if you build it for

that's great. But if you build it for that's great. But if you build it for your thousands of customers, then you

your thousands of customers, then you your thousands of customers, then you help them elevate and it becomes your

help them elevate and it becomes your help them elevate and it becomes your stronger differentiate differentiator.

stronger differentiate differentiator. stronger differentiate differentiator. So would you say like the services part

So would you say like the services part So would you say like the services part is going to be the future of where

is going to be the future of where is going to be the future of where networks go? networks go? networks go? >> Yeah, for sure. Because if you if you

>> Yeah, for sure. Because if you if you >> Yeah, for sure. Because if you if you give to the affiliate the the the access

give to the affiliate the the the access give to the affiliate the the the access to I don't know a football match or an

to I don't know a football match or an to I don't know a football match or an anaming event, they will forever

anaming event, they will forever anaming event, they will forever remember that you are doing this for

remember that you are doing this for remember that you are doing this for them, you know. uh rather than than

them, you know. uh rather than than them, you know. uh rather than than payouts. Of course, payouts is payouts. Of course, payouts is payouts. Of course, payouts is important. Uh financial stuff, let's say

important. Uh financial stuff, let's say important. Uh financial stuff, let's say it's it's very important to pay on time

it's it's very important to pay on time it's it's very important to pay on time and all this stuff that we know, but but

and all this stuff that we know, but but and all this stuff that we know, but but the the the connection that you have,

the the the connection that you have, the the the connection that you have, the human connection that you have, it's

the human connection that you have, it's the human connection that you have, it's a it's key point. Um sometimes we we

a it's key point. Um sometimes we we a it's key point. Um sometimes we we speak a little bit about you know uh not

speak a little bit about you know uh not speak a little bit about you know uh not human connection between between each

human connection between between each human connection between between each other but if you if you if you have this

other but if you if you if you have this other but if you if you if you have this kind of human connection it's a for me

kind of human connection it's a for me kind of human connection it's a for me it's a win-win receipt for for an

it's a win-win receipt for for an it's a win-win receipt for for an affiliate network to to grow and evolve.

affiliate network to to grow and evolve. affiliate network to to grow and evolve. >> Okay. What you just said made me write

>> Okay. What you just said made me write >> Okay. What you just said made me write down three questions. So let's start

down three questions. So let's start down three questions. So let's start with um the the one of them which is how

with um the the one of them which is how with um the the one of them which is how difficult is it to start an affiliate

difficult is it to start an affiliate difficult is it to start an affiliate network? People I think think it looks

network? People I think think it looks network? People I think think it looks easy, but I got some friends that are

easy, but I got some friends that are easy, but I got some friends that are just getting started and they're saying just getting started and they're saying just getting started and they're saying this is brutal. So is it?

this is brutal. So is it? this is brutal. So is it? >> It's ve very difficult. That's that's a

>> It's ve very difficult. That's that's a >> It's ve very difficult. That's that's a good question because I started like

good question because I started like good question because I started like right now we have a proper team for

right now we have a proper team for right now we have a proper team for affiliate for operator and finance and

affiliate for operator and finance and affiliate for operator and finance and stuff like that. But I've started like

stuff like that. But I've started like stuff like that. But I've started like uh back in the days five years ago and I

uh back in the days five years ago and I uh back in the days five years ago and I received for the first year I received a

received for the first year I received a received for the first year I received a lot of nos a lot of no thank you no

lot of nos a lot of no thank you no lot of nos a lot of no thank you no thank you we are not interested. We thank you we are not interested. We thank you we are not interested. We don't know you. uh so it's difficult to

don't know you. uh so it's difficult to don't know you. uh so it's difficult to to get to start with and luckily we we

to get to start with and luckily we we to get to start with and luckily we we had uh some some big big good affiliates

had uh some some big big good affiliates had uh some some big big good affiliates with us and they helped us to grow uh

with us and they helped us to grow uh with us and they helped us to grow uh but at the beginning yeah I agree with

but at the beginning yeah I agree with but at the beginning yeah I agree with you like it's very very difficult to get

you like it's very very difficult to get you like it's very very difficult to get to get um to get to know uh operators

to get um to get to know uh operators to get um to get to know uh operators and clients I always remember my first

and clients I always remember my first and clients I always remember my first conversion as an affiliate network it's

conversion as an affiliate network it's conversion as an affiliate network it's um it's something that uh it's always on

um it's something that uh it's always on um it's something that uh it's always on my mind because it's a very very big

my mind because it's a very very big my mind because it's a very very big achievement you What else?

achievement you What else? achievement you What else? >> Okay. Then what's important for a

>> Okay. Then what's important for a >> Okay. Then what's important for a network? I mean, I know you mentioned network? I mean, I know you mentioned network? I mean, I know you mentioned like, you know, payouts as being

like, you know, payouts as being like, you know, payouts as being important, but what are the key

important, but what are the key important, but what are the key ingredients that are just like ingredients that are just like ingredients that are just like non-negotiables that you have to bring

non-negotiables that you have to bring non-negotiables that you have to bring to the table like to build those

to the table like to build those to the table like to build those relationships and win those people over

relationships and win those people over relationships and win those people over eventually? eventually? eventually? >> Yeah. For me, if you have and this is in

>> Yeah. For me, if you have and this is in >> Yeah. For me, if you have and this is in in every business, but if you have a

in every business, but if you have a in every business, but if you have a problem, you need to shop no matter the

problem, you need to shop no matter the problem, you need to shop no matter the time, no matter the date, but if you

time, no matter the date, but if you time, no matter the date, but if you have an issue with with postback, with

have an issue with with postback, with have an issue with with postback, with tracking, uh with payments, you need to

tracking, uh with payments, you need to tracking, uh with payments, you need to shop. You need to explain, you have to

shop. You need to explain, you have to shop. You need to explain, you have to be transparent

be transparent be transparent uh with with your affiliates. For

uh with with your affiliates. For uh with with your affiliates. For example, if there is an operator that is

example, if there is an operator that is example, if there is an operator that is paying late, you have to be transparent

paying late, you have to be transparent paying late, you have to be transparent with a field to show them what is the

with a field to show them what is the with a field to show them what is the reality, what is the situation, to not

reality, what is the situation, to not reality, what is the situation, to not promise something that you cannot do and

promise something that you cannot do and promise something that you cannot do and and to be to be to be on top of the of

and to be to be to be on top of the of and to be to be to be on top of the of the things, you know, to have a team the things, you know, to have a team the things, you know, to have a team that uh that that that is with you, that

that uh that that that is with you, that that uh that that that is with you, that is loyal to you, that is transparent to

is loyal to you, that is transparent to is loyal to you, that is transparent to your clients and to your team as well.

your clients and to your team as well. your clients and to your team as well. Because for me, transparency and Because for me, transparency and Because for me, transparency and honesty, it's the most important thing.

honesty, it's the most important thing. honesty, it's the most important thing. >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And >> and speaking of that very topic, so we

>> and speaking of that very topic, so we >> and speaking of that very topic, so we have we're an integrator for affiliate

have we're an integrator for affiliate have we're an integrator for affiliate programs and networks, and we're well

programs and networks, and we're well programs and networks, and we're well over 2,000. And I can tell you we have

over 2,000. And I can tell you we have over 2,000. And I can tell you we have at least one affiliate manager per

at least one affiliate manager per at least one affiliate manager per program. So that's 2,000 affiliate

program. So that's 2,000 affiliate program. So that's 2,000 affiliate managers we have in our contacts. And I

managers we have in our contacts. And I managers we have in our contacts. And I just think like especially in the eye just think like especially in the eye just think like especially in the eye gaming space that the the quality of

gaming space that the the quality of gaming space that the the quality of conversations has just gotten worse

conversations has just gotten worse conversations has just gotten worse year-over-year. I think a lot of the

year-over-year. I think a lot of the year-over-year. I think a lot of the affiliate managers being hired, uh, they

affiliate managers being hired, uh, they affiliate managers being hired, uh, they have a mandate. I need as many have a mandate. I need as many have a mandate. I need as many affiliates as possible and I need as

affiliates as possible and I need as affiliates as possible and I need as many depositing players or as many sales

many depositing players or as many sales many depositing players or as many sales as possible. They're not even caring

as possible. They're not even caring as possible. They're not even caring about the quality that kind of flows

about the quality that kind of flows about the quality that kind of flows through. Um, I I think this is a pretty

through. Um, I I think this is a pretty through. Um, I I think this is a pretty obvious reason why you'd want to work

obvious reason why you'd want to work obvious reason why you'd want to work with a network. You just said that you

with a network. You just said that you with a network. You just said that you have to work your ass off just to get have to work your ass off just to get have to work your ass off just to get these relationships. So, I mean, here

these relationships. So, I mean, here these relationships. So, I mean, here we've got you building real

we've got you building real we've got you building real relationships, which affiliates relationships, which affiliates relationships, which affiliates appreciate, and then other affiliate

appreciate, and then other affiliate appreciate, and then other affiliate managers that treat us transactional. I

managers that treat us transactional. I managers that treat us transactional. I mean, what do you think? Yeah.

mean, what do you think? Yeah. mean, what do you think? Yeah. Yeah. I I totally agree with you. There

Yeah. I I totally agree with you. There Yeah. I I totally agree with you. There are a lot of um we are losing uh for me

are a lot of um we are losing uh for me are a lot of um we are losing uh for me we are losing the human connection. We

we are losing the human connection. We we are losing the human connection. We are thinking just about numbers, just

are thinking just about numbers, just are thinking just about numbers, just about uh FTDs,

about uh FTDs, about uh FTDs, conversion rate and this stuff. But uh

conversion rate and this stuff. But uh conversion rate and this stuff. But uh behind this we we have p people you know

behind this we we have p people you know behind this we we have p people you know and um funny enough to to note that all

and um funny enough to to note that all and um funny enough to to note that all our biggest clients or our biggest

our biggest clients or our biggest our biggest clients or our biggest operators is the operator that we have

operators is the operator that we have operators is the operator that we have the more human relationship you know

the more human relationship you know the more human relationship you know because if if you have for example a

because if if you have for example a because if if you have for example a case of fraud a case of incentive

case of fraud a case of incentive case of fraud a case of incentive traffic for example we can solve the

traffic for example we can solve the traffic for example we can solve the situation better if we if we have a if

situation better if we if we have a if situation better if we if we have a if we have appreciate ourself as a human

we have appreciate ourself as a human we have appreciate ourself as a human being you know uh because you you see

being you know uh because you you see being you know uh because you you see that in the other part there is a person

that in the other part there is a person that in the other part there is a person that has feelings that has issues you So

that has feelings that has issues you So that has feelings that has issues you So that that's very important for for me

that that's very important for for me that that's very important for for me and a lot of companies are not doing

and a lot of companies are not doing and a lot of companies are not doing that. that. that. >> Yeah. Who knew that people want to buy

>> Yeah. Who knew that people want to buy >> Yeah. Who knew that people want to buy from people? from people? from people? >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That

>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that that that that's the thing. Yeah.

that that that that's the thing. Yeah. that that that that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. >> Okay. Um landing pages. Let's say you're

>> Okay. Um landing pages. Let's say you're >> Okay. Um landing pages. Let's say you're working with a new operator and you're

working with a new operator and you're working with a new operator and you're trying out their offers and then you're

trying out their offers and then you're trying out their offers and then you're realizing that maybe the conversion rate

realizing that maybe the conversion rate realizing that maybe the conversion rate is just not as good. Do you go to them

is just not as good. Do you go to them is just not as good. Do you go to them and say, "What landing pages do you

and say, "What landing pages do you and say, "What landing pages do you have?" So just to give you some context,

have?" So just to give you some context, have?" So just to give you some context, we're researching as many landing pages

we're researching as many landing pages we're researching as many landing pages as we see the operators have. So do you

as we see the operators have. So do you as we see the operators have. So do you ever find some that have a small number

ever find some that have a small number ever find some that have a small number and you say I need I need better?

and you say I need I need better? and you say I need I need better? >> Yeah. Uh some sometimes we we we usually

>> Yeah. Uh some sometimes we we we usually >> Yeah. Uh some sometimes we we we usually like to to have landing pages of

like to to have landing pages of like to to have landing pages of registration page which is a little bit

registration page which is a little bit registration page which is a little bit easier for the user to to register and

easier for the user to to register and easier for the user to to register and deposit. Uh but also we we like to we

deposit. Uh but also we we like to we deposit. Uh but also we we like to we have majority of our our traffic is slot

have majority of our our traffic is slot have majority of our our traffic is slot let's say and casino traffic. So usually

let's say and casino traffic. So usually let's say and casino traffic. So usually we we focus on the best uh slots in the

we we focus on the best uh slots in the we we focus on the best uh slots in the market.

market. market. uh the the most the most common slots in

uh the the most the most common slots in uh the the most the most common slots in the market which is always for example

the market which is always for example the market which is always for example aviator it's a crash game but like uh we

aviator it's a crash game but like uh we aviator it's a crash game but like uh we have uh I don't know in Brazil we have have uh I don't know in Brazil we have have uh I don't know in Brazil we have fortune tiger all the pg soft slots uh

fortune tiger all the pg soft slots uh fortune tiger all the pg soft slots uh we have priority play um we have ruby

we have priority play um we have ruby we have priority play um we have ruby play as well which is very good in play as well which is very good in play as well which is very good in Brazil very popular so we we prefer to

Brazil very popular so we we prefer to Brazil very popular so we we prefer to to to have reg registration page with

to to have reg registration page with to to have reg registration page with slots and but to to have this you have

slots and but to to have this you have slots and but to to have this you have to know the market you know you you to know the market you know you you to know the market you know you you cannot you cannot uh work in any market

cannot you cannot uh work in any market cannot you cannot uh work in any market you you like because you you need to you

you you like because you you need to you you you like because you you need to you need to have boots on the ground.

need to have boots on the ground. need to have boots on the ground. >> Okay. And what you just said is very

>> Okay. And what you just said is very >> Okay. And what you just said is very interesting. Do you work with your

interesting. Do you work with your interesting. Do you work with your affiliates and tell them that these affiliates and tell them that these affiliates and tell them that these landing pages convert better or do you

landing pages convert better or do you landing pages convert better or do you just basically say we only get the best

just basically say we only get the best just basically say we only get the best landing pages that you can get? So what

landing pages that you can get? So what landing pages that you can get? So what they're getting as inventory is

they're getting as inventory is they're getting as inventory is basically the best.

basically the best. basically the best. >> Yeah. Some operator show us like share

>> Yeah. Some operator show us like share >> Yeah. Some operator show us like share with us the the details the reports of

with us the the details the reports of with us the the details the reports of each landing page which is useful and

each landing page which is useful and each landing page which is useful and some other operator they don't do that

some other operator they don't do that some other operator they don't do that and it's it's a shame because they they

and it's it's a shame because they they and it's it's a shame because they they kind of protect the information. I don't

kind of protect the information. I don't kind of protect the information. I don't know why but but for us it's it's

know why but but for us it's it's know why but but for us it's it's important to know which is the most

important to know which is the most important to know which is the most important the most uh higher conversion

important the most uh higher conversion important the most uh higher conversion rate we have because the thing is

rate we have because the thing is rate we have because the thing is affiliate do not understand this h you

affiliate do not understand this h you affiliate do not understand this h you can get paid €200 for a FTD right but if

can get paid €200 for a FTD right but if can get paid €200 for a FTD right but if the conversion rate is zero you will get

the conversion rate is zero you will get the conversion rate is zero you will get paid zero so it's it's better to get

paid zero so it's it's better to get paid zero so it's it's better to get paid less but the conversion rate is

paid less but the conversion rate is paid less but the conversion rate is higher and instead of getting better

higher and instead of getting better higher and instead of getting better payout and less conversion rate

payout and less conversion rate payout and less conversion rate >> okay let's uh pivot into tracking you

>> okay let's uh pivot into tracking you >> okay let's uh pivot into tracking you mentioned postback So I'm assuming that

mentioned postback So I'm assuming that mentioned postback So I'm assuming that you obviously have postbacks. Do you

you obviously have postbacks. Do you you obviously have postbacks. Do you have that across all your operators or

have that across all your operators or have that across all your operators or is that most of them? And what are the

is that most of them? And what are the is that most of them? And what are the tracking mechanisms that you care about

tracking mechanisms that you care about tracking mechanisms that you care about beyond postback? Like are we talking

beyond postback? Like are we talking beyond postback? Like are we talking dynamic variables or we just saying like

dynamic variables or we just saying like dynamic variables or we just saying like you know accounts, brands, campaigns

you know accounts, brands, campaigns you know accounts, brands, campaigns with postbacks as being like a uh very

with postbacks as being like a uh very with postbacks as being like a uh very important for maybe some of your your

important for maybe some of your your important for maybe some of your your affiliates and publishers.

affiliates and publishers. affiliates and publishers. >> Yeah, we we prefer postback because uh

>> Yeah, we we prefer postback because uh >> Yeah, we we prefer postback because uh the information it's uh it's uh more

the information it's uh it's uh more the information it's uh it's uh more valuable, more accurate. uh but also we

valuable, more accurate. uh but also we valuable, more accurate. uh but also we track with we can track with API GTM

track with we can track with API GTM track with we can track with API GTM we we image with image pixel we have uh

we we image with image pixel we have uh we we image with image pixel we have uh we have less clients let's say because

we have less clients let's say because we have less clients let's say because image pixel is not very trustful let's

image pixel is not very trustful let's image pixel is not very trustful let's say with for for tracking but but yeah

say with for for tracking but but yeah say with for for tracking but but yeah postback in general we we track

postback in general we we track postback in general we we track registration FTD and CPA usually with

registration FTD and CPA usually with registration FTD and CPA usually with the with all operators

the with all operators the with all operators >> okay and do you find the postbacks is

>> okay and do you find the postbacks is >> okay and do you find the postbacks is more work or at least it's it's worth

more work or at least it's it's worth more work or at least it's it's worth the effort for trying to get like you

the effort for trying to get like you the effort for trying to get like you know the better the the higher detail in

know the better the the higher detail in know the better the the higher detail in your data.

your data. your data. >> Yeah. Know passback it's it's very good

>> Yeah. Know passback it's it's very good >> Yeah. Know passback it's it's very good but it depends also on the affiliate

but it depends also on the affiliate but it depends also on the affiliate software you know because there are many

software you know because there are many software you know because there are many affiliate software that they they they

affiliate software that they they they affiliate software that they they they work perfectly with prospects but some

work perfectly with prospects but some work perfectly with prospects but some of them they they they have some data

of them they they they have some data of them they they they have some data that they don't don't pass correctly you

that they don't don't pass correctly you that they don't don't pass correctly you know you know this better than me I

know you know this better than me I know you know this better than me I think. So yeah depends on the affiliate

think. So yeah depends on the affiliate think. So yeah depends on the affiliate software. software. software. >> Yeah that that's another topic. I mean

>> Yeah that that's another topic. I mean >> Yeah that that's another topic. I mean uh we have a I just been working on a

uh we have a I just been working on a uh we have a I just been working on a chart recently showing all the postbacks

chart recently showing all the postbacks chart recently showing all the postbacks we get and this is not standardized at

we get and this is not standardized at we get and this is not standardized at all and on top of it um maybe half of it

all and on top of it um maybe half of it all and on top of it um maybe half of it it's actually real time

it's actually real time it's actually real time >> which

>> which >> which they they say real time but it's not

they they say real time but it's not they they say real time but it's not real time. real time. real time. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's that that's the quote of the day.

>> it's that that's the quote of the day. >> it's that that's the quote of the day. All right, then let's pivot to I got a

All right, then let's pivot to I got a All right, then let's pivot to I got a question. So obviously I think you guys

question. So obviously I think you guys question. So obviously I think you guys are a bit more data focused than the

are a bit more data focused than the are a bit more data focused than the average network that I've talked to. So,

average network that I've talked to. So, average network that I've talked to. So, as you're you're working with campaigns

as you're you're working with campaigns as you're you're working with campaigns with your affiliates, even if they're

with your affiliates, even if they're with your affiliates, even if they're not using postbacks, let's say you

not using postbacks, let's say you not using postbacks, let's say you wanted to know the conversion rates of

wanted to know the conversion rates of wanted to know the conversion rates of all the newsletters, let's say like

all the newsletters, let's say like all the newsletters, let's say like maybe about 20% of your your publishers

maybe about 20% of your your publishers maybe about 20% of your your publishers and affiliates are actually using a and affiliates are actually using a and affiliates are actually using a newsletter. Do you have the ability to

newsletter. Do you have the ability to newsletter. Do you have the ability to track that and know like this is my

track that and know like this is my track that and know like this is my newsletter segment or do you think that

newsletter segment or do you think that newsletter segment or do you think that requires a lot more work to work with

requires a lot more work to work with requires a lot more work to work with the affiliate and say hey if you're

the affiliate and say hey if you're the affiliate and say hey if you're going to use a newsletter use a separate

going to use a newsletter use a separate going to use a newsletter use a separate link so we can see what's behind it and

link so we can see what's behind it and link so we can see what's behind it and know the the the value and influence of

know the the the value and influence of know the the the value and influence of that channel. that channel. that channel. >> Yeah we usually add the sub ID because

>> Yeah we usually add the sub ID because >> Yeah we usually add the sub ID because in our platform you can you can split

in our platform you can you can split in our platform you can you can split per sub ID. Uh so so we we we usually

per sub ID. Uh so so we we we usually per sub ID. Uh so so we we we usually add subd and and sub it's it's good

add subd and and sub it's it's good add subd and and sub it's it's good enough to to to to work but in general

enough to to to to work but in general enough to to to to work but in general if we have a bigger affili let's say we

if we have a bigger affili let's say we if we have a bigger affili let's say we we prefer to to say to them to split to

we prefer to to say to them to split to we prefer to to say to them to split to open multiple accounts for traffic

open multiple accounts for traffic open multiple accounts for traffic source because it's it's easier to

source because it's it's easier to source because it's it's easier to >> to get and manage and our platform it's

>> to get and manage and our platform it's >> to get and manage and our platform it's very in my opinion it's very good so so

very in my opinion it's very good so so very in my opinion it's very good so so I I think with with this they can easy

I I think with with this they can easy I I think with with this they can easy easily better data Okay, then quick

easily better data Okay, then quick easily better data Okay, then quick question. Um, do you work more where

question. Um, do you work more where question. Um, do you work more where it's um each each publisher and

it's um each each publisher and it's um each each publisher and affiliate has their own account coming

affiliate has their own account coming affiliate has their own account coming from the program or is it more like a

from the program or is it more like a from the program or is it more like a line item where you have an account with

line item where you have an account with line item where you have an account with like a master account and then it kind

like a master account and then it kind like a master account and then it kind of uh you know you basically say like

of uh you know you basically say like of uh you know you basically say like here's your link and it's it's split by

here's your link and it's it's split by here's your link and it's it's split by sub ID

Oh, we got some slowness. Oh, we got some slowness. Um,

okay. You there? okay. You there? Test test test.

Hi. Can you hear me? Can you see me? Hi. Can you hear me? Can you see me? >> Yep. You're back.

>> Yep. You're back. >> Yep. You're back. >> H. So, it's it was me.

>> H. So, it's it was me. >> H. So, it's it was me. >> I think so, but I don't know.

>> I think so, but I don't know. >> I think so, but I don't know. >> Okay. Because I was seeing me, but I was

>> Okay. Because I was seeing me, but I was >> Okay. Because I was seeing me, but I was not seeing you. not seeing you. not seeing you. >> Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's I think it

>> Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's I think it >> Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's I think it might have been on your side, but um

might have been on your side, but um might have been on your side, but um we'll find out in the recording. It It's

we'll find out in the recording. It It's we'll find out in the recording. It It's still showing on my side. Everything's still showing on my side. Everything's still showing on my side. Everything's recording. So, we're obviously gonna recording. So, we're obviously gonna recording. So, we're obviously gonna have like a couple minute gap. So, um,

have like a couple minute gap. So, um, have like a couple minute gap. So, um, that's very easy to stop, splice,

that's very easy to stop, splice, that's very easy to stop, splice, stitch. It takes a minute.

stitch. It takes a minute. stitch. It takes a minute. >> Yeah. If later you can send me the video

>> Yeah. If later you can send me the video >> Yeah. If later you can send me the video like on Google Drive.

like on Google Drive. like on Google Drive. >> Okay. Absolutely. So, I'm going to ask

>> Okay. Absolutely. So, I'm going to ask >> Okay. Absolutely. So, I'm going to ask the question before we re-record, which

the question before we re-record, which the question before we re-record, which is how do you set up your affiliate

is how do you set up your affiliate is how do you set up your affiliate accounts? Like, do you go to the accounts? Like, do you go to the accounts? Like, do you go to the affiliate operator and create an account

affiliate operator and create an account affiliate operator and create an account or are you basically using like a

or are you basically using like a or are you basically using like a diamond variable sub ID and it's just

diamond variable sub ID and it's just diamond variable sub ID and it's just they're created automatically in your

they're created automatically in your they're created automatically in your ledger?

ledger? ledger? No, we usually create an account with

No, we usually create an account with No, we usually create an account with the with the operator.

the with the operator. the with the operator. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Uh we actually we we we like to create

>> Uh we actually we we we like to create >> Uh we actually we we we like to create two accounts usually. So we have a

two accounts usually. So we have a two accounts usually. So we have a backup account and just in case anything

backup account and just in case anything backup account and just in case anything happen

happen happen and also to split also internal traffic

and also to split also internal traffic and also to split also internal traffic and external traffic because we are a

and external traffic because we are a and external traffic because we are a network but we have also our internal

network but we have also our internal network but we have also our internal traffic. Uh we do email marketing, we

traffic. Uh we do email marketing, we traffic. Uh we do email marketing, we have some websites, we do

have some websites, we do have some websites, we do uh we do we do some internal traffic as

uh we do we do some internal traffic as uh we do we do some internal traffic as well. it's let's say 15% of the net but

well. it's let's say 15% of the net but well. it's let's say 15% of the net but but yeah we can offer both so and we

but yeah we can offer both so and we but yeah we can offer both so and we also uh we also separate by source ID uh

also uh we also separate by source ID uh also uh we also separate by source ID uh so we we give to the to the operator our

so we we give to the to the operator our so we we give to the to the operator our source ID which is six numbers uh six

source ID which is six numbers uh six source ID which is six numbers uh six numbers is our affiliate ID

numbers is our affiliate ID numbers is our affiliate ID >> right >> right >> right >> um and like this we can we can track the

>> um and like this we can we can track the >> um and like this we can we can track the performance of each uh a affiliate and

performance of each uh a affiliate and performance of each uh a affiliate and uh let me add one thing there are very

uh let me add one thing there are very uh let me add one thing there are very very few operators that they how to hand

very few operators that they how to hand very few operators that they how to hand they know how to handle this Okay.

they know how to handle this Okay. they know how to handle this Okay. >> Uh we can I can mention because it's a

>> Uh we can I can mention because it's a >> Uh we can I can mention because it's a very good partner. We work like this

very good partner. We work like this very good partner. We work like this very closely with Royal Partners in

very closely with Royal Partners in very closely with Royal Partners in Latam and we are one of the best

Latam and we are one of the best Latam and we are one of the best affiliate for them in LA. I I think the

affiliate for them in LA. I I think the affiliate for them in LA. I I think the first one and for example we use the

first one and for example we use the first one and for example we use the source ID and in case so we open the

source ID and in case so we open the source ID and in case so we open the campaign that they have. They have a lot

campaign that they have. They have a lot campaign that they have. They have a lot of brands. We open the campaign to all

of brands. We open the campaign to all of brands. We open the campaign to all the affiliates and if there is any fraud

the affiliates and if there is any fraud the affiliates and if there is any fraud and instant traffic, he sent me just a

and instant traffic, he sent me just a and instant traffic, he sent me just a report of the affiliate ID and we we go

report of the affiliate ID and we we go report of the affiliate ID and we we go there and we reject the the affiliate

there and we reject the the affiliate there and we reject the the affiliate and that's it. Like this. It's a win-win

and that's it. Like this. It's a win-win and that's it. Like this. It's a win-win because it help them to get volume.

because it help them to get volume. because it help them to get volume. They pay only qualified traffic. They

They pay only qualified traffic. They They pay only qualified traffic. They pay only natural traffic, let's say. And

pay only natural traffic, let's say. And pay only natural traffic, let's say. And we clean a little bit the database of

we clean a little bit the database of we clean a little bit the database of affiliates as well.

affiliates as well. affiliates as well. >> So this is this is perfect, you know.

>> So this is this is perfect, you know. >> So this is this is perfect, you know. >> But to do this, you have to be focused.

>> But to do this, you have to be focused. >> But to do this, you have to be focused. You have to be on time. You have to

You have to be on time. You have to You have to be on time. You have to analyze every day, you know, and I know

analyze every day, you know, and I know analyze every day, you know, and I know a lot of affiliate manager, they do

a lot of affiliate manager, they do a lot of affiliate manager, they do this. So that's another topic is fraud.

this. So that's another topic is fraud. this. So that's another topic is fraud. Like how how prevailent is this? Like

Like how how prevailent is this? Like Like how how prevailent is this? Like how many fraudulent affiliates are

how many fraudulent affiliates are how many fraudulent affiliates are trying to get inside your network like

trying to get inside your network like trying to get inside your network like all the time? Like is this like a once a

all the time? Like is this like a once a all the time? Like is this like a once a day, multiple times a day, a couple

day, multiple times a day, a couple day, multiple times a day, a couple times a month? Like how bad is it? Um to

times a month? Like how bad is it? Um to times a month? Like how bad is it? Um to be honest I think they communicate

be honest I think they communicate be honest I think they communicate between each other and it's it's it's

between each other and it's it's it's between each other and it's it's it's like a wave because we have we have one

like a wave because we have we have one like a wave because we have we have one one fraster let's say that the he

one fraster let's say that the he one fraster let's say that the he succeed in total fraud and and then he

succeed in total fraud and and then he succeed in total fraud and and then he it he come up with a lot of fraudsters

it he come up with a lot of fraudsters it he come up with a lot of fraudsters when when they their volume is big uh we

when when they their volume is big uh we when when they their volume is big uh we we we reject them and then we stop to

we we reject them and then we stop to we we reject them and then we stop to having them and then after two three having them and then after two three having them and then after two three months we we have other other waves as

months we we have other other waves as months we we have other other waves as well of of frosters And uh but thanks to

well of of frosters And uh but thanks to well of of frosters And uh but thanks to to this to this work we are doing with

to this to this work we are doing with to this to this work we are doing with this um with this operator because

this um with this operator because this um with this operator because mostly we work in LA we are having less

mostly we work in LA we are having less mostly we work in LA we are having less less cases of trout. Okay because like

Okay. I hope it's not me, but I have no Okay. I hope it's not me, but I have no idea.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. What? Sorry.

What? Sorry. What? Sorry. >> No worries. It was very I don't know uh

>> No worries. It was very I don't know uh >> No worries. It was very I don't know uh what I wanted to say ah yeah so crowd

what I wanted to say ah yeah so crowd what I wanted to say ah yeah so crowd it's it's normal in our industry but

it's it's normal in our industry but it's it's normal in our industry but like uh uh usually there are waves uh so

like uh uh usually there are waves uh so like uh uh usually there are waves uh so so they they they come in in groups

so they they they come in in groups so they they they come in in groups let's say and then they they when we

let's say and then they they when we let's say and then they they when we reject them uh then they they leave but

reject them uh then they they leave but reject them uh then they they leave but it this is based on operator feedback if

it this is based on operator feedback if it this is based on operator feedback if the operator gives us a feedback we they

the operator gives us a feedback we they the operator gives us a feedback we they help us to prevent fraud I mean okay And

help us to prevent fraud I mean okay And help us to prevent fraud I mean okay And what does the fraud look like? Are we what does the fraud look like? Are we what does the fraud look like? Are we talking like uh trying to just gain

talking like uh trying to just gain talking like uh trying to just gain really good CPA deals where they're just

really good CPA deals where they're just really good CPA deals where they're just trying to get like the the threshold,

trying to get like the the threshold, trying to get like the the threshold, the minimums like for qualified FTDs or

the minimums like for qualified FTDs or the minimums like for qualified FTDs or is it more than that?

is it more than that? is it more than that? >> No, usually it's the typical fraud it's

>> No, usually it's the typical fraud it's >> No, usually it's the typical fraud it's multi- account that it's for example in

multi- account that it's for example in multi- account that it's for example in Brazil regulated uh the regulated

Brazil regulated uh the regulated Brazil regulated uh the regulated operators you cannot do multi account

operators you cannot do multi account operators you cannot do multi account because there is face ID. So it's very

because there is face ID. So it's very because there is face ID. So it's very difficult to do maka but with not

difficult to do maka but with not difficult to do maka but with not regulated operator that they don't have regulated operator that they don't have regulated operator that they don't have face ID in place it's very easy to do

face ID in place it's very easy to do face ID in place it's very easy to do and usually uh they do they develop also

and usually uh they do they develop also and usually uh they do they develop also a system of game play so they come they

a system of game play so they come they a system of game play so they come they they do the game the game play in the

they do the game the game play in the they do the game the game play in the same r uh rlet and then they leave or

same r uh rlet and then they leave or same r uh rlet and then they leave or the same slot and then they leave

the same slot and then they leave the same slot and then they leave >> so actually it's it's becoming very

>> so actually it's it's becoming very >> so actually it's it's becoming very difficult to to spot the

difficult to to spot the difficult to to spot the >> the frasters let's

>> the frasters let's >> the frasters let's Nowadays, Nowadays, Nowadays, >> what's crazy about that is that's >> what's crazy about that is that's >> what's crazy about that is that's actually more on the operator's

actually more on the operator's actually more on the operator's responsibility and this should be really

responsibility and this should be really responsibility and this should be really basic stuff for them to detect and

basic stuff for them to detect and basic stuff for them to detect and prevent, right? Um I I actually think

prevent, right? Um I I actually think prevent, right? Um I I actually think it's embarrassing that a lot of them it's embarrassing that a lot of them it's embarrassing that a lot of them can't do this. And I've been an operator

can't do this. And I've been an operator can't do this. And I've been an operator a long time ago um working on, you know,

a long time ago um working on, you know, a long time ago um working on, you know, the VIP and the fraud and uh bonus

the VIP and the fraud and uh bonus the VIP and the fraud and uh bonus abuse. And yeah, it was easy for me to

abuse. And yeah, it was easy for me to abuse. And yeah, it was easy for me to to detect and I noticed that the person

to detect and I noticed that the person to detect and I noticed that the person that was previously working like when I

that was previously working like when I that was previously working like when I took over that job, it's like they were

took over that job, it's like they were took over that job, it's like they were not catching any of this and I found a

not catching any of this and I found a not catching any of this and I found a whole bunch of fraud exactly like you

whole bunch of fraud exactly like you whole bunch of fraud exactly like you described. So, it's a it's hilarious

described. So, it's a it's hilarious described. So, it's a it's hilarious that nothing's changed in in 15.

that nothing's changed in in 15. that nothing's changed in in 15. >> No, there are operators that they don't

>> No, there are operators that they don't >> No, there are operators that they don't they don't give us good feedback. Uh and

they don't give us good feedback. Uh and they don't give us good feedback. Uh and also like if you for example if you have

also like if you for example if you have also like if you for example if you have 100 FTD and you have 20 FTD of fraud

100 FTD and you have 20 FTD of fraud 100 FTD and you have 20 FTD of fraud that that you need to you need to to

that that you need to you need to to that that you need to you need to to check let's say to to monitor uh if you

check let's say to to monitor uh if you check let's say to to monitor uh if you if you will pay those 20 FTD of fraud it

if you will pay those 20 FTD of fraud it if you will pay those 20 FTD of fraud it it will affect our performance right so

it will affect our performance right so it will affect our performance right so like this you cannot you cannot measure

like this you cannot you cannot measure like this you cannot you cannot measure traffic if you if you pay if you if you

traffic if you if you pay if you if you traffic if you if you pay if you if you pay fraud and there are also a lot of um

pay fraud and there are also a lot of um pay fraud and there are also a lot of um a lot of operator that it's it's funny

a lot of operator that it's it's funny a lot of operator that it's it's funny because there are a lot of operators because there are a lot of operators because there are a lot of operators they say ah quality is good can you

they say ah quality is good can you they say ah quality is good can you increase the volume we increase the increase the volume we increase the increase the volume we increase the volume because we know how to increase volume because we know how to increase volume because we know how to increase the volume we put the operator on the

the volume we put the operator on the the volume we put the operator on the first line top of that the list and so

first line top of that the list and so first line top of that the list and so on and then they ask they tell us it's

on and then they ask they tell us it's on and then they ask they tell us it's fraud I mean if you if you ask me to

fraud I mean if you if you ask me to fraud I mean if you if you ask me to increase the the deposit then you have

increase the the deposit then you have increase the the deposit then you have to monitor to check you know

to monitor to check you know to monitor to check you know >> so we we we learned about this and we we

>> so we we we learned about this and we we >> so we we we learned about this and we we are very careful to increase the the

are very careful to increase the the are very careful to increase the the traffic volume like this because it's

traffic volume like this because it's traffic volume like this because it's always difficult for us to

always difficult for us to always difficult for us to >> okay so do Do you think that if an

>> okay so do Do you think that if an >> okay so do Do you think that if an operator is improving their product

operator is improving their product operator is improving their product using tools, let's say like Greco, so

using tools, let's say like Greco, so using tools, let's say like Greco, so Greco does bonus hunting abuse, I mean,

Greco does bonus hunting abuse, I mean, Greco does bonus hunting abuse, I mean, if they clean that up, in theory, this

if they clean that up, in theory, this if they clean that up, in theory, this should also catch a segment of that

should also catch a segment of that should also catch a segment of that fraud. Um, I'm assuming that tools like

fraud. Um, I'm assuming that tools like fraud. Um, I'm assuming that tools like this kind of improve the player value,

this kind of improve the player value, this kind of improve the player value, which is going to be beneficial for you,

which is going to be beneficial for you, which is going to be beneficial for you, which is going to be again beneficial

which is going to be again beneficial which is going to be again beneficial for the affiliates. So, what do you for the affiliates. So, what do you for the affiliates. So, what do you think about uh tools for operators? Like

think about uh tools for operators? Like think about uh tools for operators? Like they should be using stuff like this, I

they should be using stuff like this, I they should be using stuff like this, I think, to detect fraud and bonus abuse.

think, to detect fraud and bonus abuse. think, to detect fraud and bonus abuse. >> Yeah, for sure. Because many affiliate

>> Yeah, for sure. Because many affiliate >> Yeah, for sure. Because many affiliate software they do they do not have a

software they do they do not have a software they do they do not have a fraud fender in place you know or or if

fraud fender in place you know or or if fraud fender in place you know or or if they if they have they don't show this

they if they have they don't show this they if they have they don't show this to operators to affiliate managers

to operators to affiliate managers to operators to affiliate managers u but but it's very it's very important

u but but it's very it's very important u but but it's very it's very important to have because crowd gaming it's very

to have because crowd gaming it's very to have because crowd gaming it's very easy to do because you get paid four or

easy to do because you get paid four or easy to do because you get paid four or five times the the baseline so it's just

five times the the baseline so it's just five times the the baseline so it's just it's just calling you know you know 10

it's just calling you know you know 10 it's just calling you know you know 10 friends and deposit and and this is

friends and deposit and and this is friends and deposit and and this is already a fraud you know it's it's it's

already a fraud you know it's it's it's already a fraud you know it's it's it's very easy to do proud let's say I don't

very easy to do proud let's say I don't very easy to do proud let's say I don't want to share insights out proud

want to share insights out proud want to share insights out proud >> but uh but it's very easy so

>> but uh but it's very easy so >> but uh but it's very easy so so yeah there are very few operator that

so yeah there are very few operator that so yeah there are very few operator that they they they know how to work with

they they they know how to work with they they they know how to work with this this this >> okay uh this was a insightful collection

>> okay uh this was a insightful collection >> okay uh this was a insightful collection of uh topics we talked about around

of uh topics we talked about around of uh topics we talked about around affiliate marketing um not just

affiliate marketing um not just affiliate marketing um not just affiliate marketing but affiliate affiliate marketing but affiliate affiliate marketing but affiliate networks so that was really insightful

networks so that was really insightful networks so that was really insightful and we'll probably have to do this again

and we'll probably have to do this again and we'll probably have to do this again I want to thank you for doing this and I

I want to thank you for doing this and I I want to thank you for doing this and I want to pass it back to you to ask how

want to pass it back to you to ask how want to pass it back to you to ask how can people get a hold of you and just can people get a hold of you and just can people get a hold of you and just one last shout out to Fmentoto.

one last shout out to Fmentoto. one last shout out to Fmentoto. >> Thank you so much John for for having

>> Thank you so much John for for having >> Thank you so much John for for having me. Uh yeah for an affiliate network

me. Uh yeah for an affiliate network me. Uh yeah for an affiliate network focusing on Latam Latin America. We work

focusing on Latam Latin America. We work focusing on Latam Latin America. We work also in tier one. Uh we are growing tier

also in tier one. Uh we are growing tier also in tier one. Uh we are growing tier one and we offer our affiliates a lot of

one and we offer our affiliates a lot of one and we offer our affiliates a lot of services which includes uh access to Y

services which includes uh access to Y services which includes uh access to Y gaming events, access to sport events,

gaming events, access to sport events, gaming events, access to sport events, uh a lot of things more

uh a lot of things more uh a lot of things more uh so yeah that that's that's how we we

uh so yeah that that's that's how we we uh so yeah that that's that's how we we work and operate to operator we offer

work and operate to operator we offer work and operate to operator we offer our own traffic and external traffic as

our own traffic and external traffic as our own traffic and external traffic as well. So, I will uh I will give you the

well. So, I will uh I will give you the well. So, I will uh I will give you the link to put in the description to to

link to put in the description to to link to put in the description to to join us join us join us >> and we'll include that in the show >> and we'll include that in the show >> and we'll include that in the show notes. Aleandro, thank you so much for

notes. Aleandro, thank you so much for notes. Aleandro, thank you so much for doing this. doing this. doing this. >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much,

>> Thank you so much. Thank you so much, >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much, John.

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