Designing for Agents with Jason Attard. UX, CX & the Future of Affiliate Sites

Honestly, the way things are moving um Honestly, the way things are moving um with AI, it's a matter of time where um

with AI, it's a matter of time where um with AI, it's a matter of time where um we'll have the agent kind of crawling

we'll have the agent kind of crawling we'll have the agent kind of crawling our content or craw our products.

our content or craw our products. our content or craw our products. Welcome to Revenue Optimization with

Welcome to Revenue Optimization with Welcome to Revenue Optimization with Stats Drone. This affiliate marketing

Stats Drone. This affiliate marketing Stats Drone. This affiliate marketing podcast is brought to you by Affiliate

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affiliates, agencies, affiliate affiliates, agencies, affiliate networks, and affiliate programs.

networks, and affiliate programs. networks, and affiliate programs. All right, Jason, I saw one of your

All right, Jason, I saw one of your All right, Jason, I saw one of your posts recently on LinkedIn that talked

posts recently on LinkedIn that talked posts recently on LinkedIn that talked about um AX, but before we get into AX

about um AX, but before we get into AX about um AX, but before we get into AX and this whole uh agentic user

and this whole uh agentic user and this whole uh agentic user experience and design, let's start

experience and design, let's start experience and design, let's start probably from the beginning. So you're a

probably from the beginning. So you're a probably from the beginning. So you're a designer uh UX designer with Game Lounge

designer uh UX designer with Game Lounge designer uh UX designer with Game Lounge and let's start like what is design

and let's start like what is design and let's start like what is design today and how do you how how's

today and how do you how how's today and how do you how how's everything changed because I think it's

everything changed because I think it's everything changed because I think it's been like probably a short period of been like probably a short period of been like probably a short period of time that you know we're seeing like a

time that you know we're seeing like a time that you know we're seeing like a lot of disruption in the the UX and

lot of disruption in the the UX and lot of disruption in the the UX and design space.

design space. design space. >> Well from uh from my perspective at

>> Well from uh from my perspective at >> Well from uh from my perspective at least you know design has evolved from

least you know design has evolved from least you know design has evolved from much more than just creating graphics

much more than just creating graphics much more than just creating graphics right and imagery. Um I've been in the

right and imagery. Um I've been in the right and imagery. Um I've been in the industry now for for quite a bit. Um I

industry now for for quite a bit. Um I industry now for for quite a bit. Um I did come from a background of design but

did come from a background of design but did come from a background of design but at the same time I had to adapt to

at the same time I had to adapt to at the same time I had to adapt to development website you know and product

development website you know and product development website you know and product as well because the reality is design on

as well because the reality is design on as well because the reality is design on its own it's not going to cut it you

its own it's not going to cut it you its own it's not going to cut it you know um when it comes to design itself

know um when it comes to design itself know um when it comes to design itself and and how it is perceived within a

and and how it is perceived within a and and how it is perceived within a company you know it's just a service

company you know it's just a service company you know it's just a service right it's very rarely you see design

right it's very rarely you see design right it's very rarely you see design being parts uh part of the movement

being parts uh part of the movement being parts uh part of the movement let's put it this way however ever when

let's put it this way however ever when let's put it this way however ever when design then joins the product side of

design then joins the product side of design then joins the product side of things that's where it shines I would

things that's where it shines I would things that's where it shines I would say you know you know because the effort

say you know you know because the effort say you know you know because the effort then is measured you know um you know

then is measured you know um you know then is measured you know um you know it's it evolved from graphics then to UI

it's it evolved from graphics then to UI it's it evolved from graphics then to UI user interfaces you know we uh we then

user interfaces you know we uh we then user interfaces you know we uh we then evolved from having the desktop designs

evolved from having the desktop designs evolved from having the desktop designs to mobile and that came you know with

to mobile and that came you know with to mobile and that came you know with its own set of challenges let's put it

its own set of challenges let's put it its own set of challenges let's put it this way uh we had to think responsively

this way uh we had to think responsively this way uh we had to think responsively so technically design then became

so technically design then became so technically design then became product design. In fact, if you ask most

product design. In fact, if you ask most product design. In fact, if you ask most of the designers today, they're probably

of the designers today, they're probably of the designers today, they're probably trying to use like this hybrid skill

trying to use like this hybrid skill trying to use like this hybrid skill between actual design, Photoshop,

between actual design, Photoshop, between actual design, Photoshop, Illustrator, and so forth. Now, jumping

Illustrator, and so forth. Now, jumping Illustrator, and so forth. Now, jumping mainly into main tools um such as Figma,

mainly into main tools um such as Figma, mainly into main tools um such as Figma, you know, and and from there, I think we

you know, and and from there, I think we you know, and and from there, I think we are at a point where we're creating

are at a point where we're creating are at a point where we're creating stuff handinhand with the product side

stuff handinhand with the product side stuff handinhand with the product side because in the end, it's all about the because in the end, it's all about the because in the end, it's all about the experience. It's all about the product.

experience. It's all about the product. experience. It's all about the product. Um, and that's I think where it started

Um, and that's I think where it started Um, and that's I think where it started for me to then look at the next steps

for me to then look at the next steps for me to then look at the next steps probably. probably. probably. >> Okay. And for me personally, I've I'm

>> Okay. And for me personally, I've I'm >> Okay. And for me personally, I've I'm always looking at companies and going

always looking at companies and going always looking at companies and going who are they hiring? Like what is the

who are they hiring? Like what is the who are they hiring? Like what is the trend in the jobs happening on LinkedIn?

trend in the jobs happening on LinkedIn? trend in the jobs happening on LinkedIn? And in the last couple years, the one And in the last couple years, the one And in the last couple years, the one thing that started to pop up was I'm

thing that started to pop up was I'm thing that started to pop up was I'm seeing a lot more emphasis on product.

seeing a lot more emphasis on product. seeing a lot more emphasis on product. So I think years before that it was

So I think years before that it was So I think years before that it was design user experience design. Now I'm

design user experience design. Now I'm design user experience design. Now I'm seeing product which is kind of like a seeing product which is kind of like a seeing product which is kind of like a hybrid of skill sets. Um do you think

hybrid of skill sets. Um do you think hybrid of skill sets. Um do you think like you know product is kind of like

like you know product is kind of like like you know product is kind of like where things need to to be at?

where things need to to be at? where things need to to be at? >> It depends. I do see product as a

>> It depends. I do see product as a >> It depends. I do see product as a collaboration with design. Um obviously

collaboration with design. Um obviously collaboration with design. Um obviously it's logically to put it under a product

it's logically to put it under a product it's logically to put it under a product you know hierarchy and structure because

you know hierarchy and structure because you know hierarchy and structure because you know designers do work mostly with

you know designers do work mostly with you know designers do work mostly with developers uh at this stage and

developers uh at this stage and developers uh at this stage and obviously we're we're excluding what

obviously we're we're excluding what obviously we're we're excluding what we're saying we're excluding the part we're saying we're excluding the part we're saying we're excluding the part where it's you know like to visual the

where it's you know like to visual the where it's you know like to visual the graphics the banners you know because graphics the banners you know because graphics the banners you know because that goes into other departments. Um,

that goes into other departments. Um, that goes into other departments. Um, but when it comes to design and and how

but when it comes to design and and how but when it comes to design and and how things work, I always think that when it

things work, I always think that when it things work, I always think that when it comes to titles, right? So, we're

comes to titles, right? So, we're comes to titles, right? So, we're talking about user experience, we're

talking about user experience, we're talking about user experience, we're talking about customer experience, and

talking about customer experience, and talking about customer experience, and now even agentic experience, right? It's

now even agentic experience, right? It's now even agentic experience, right? It's always about the experience. So,

always about the experience. So, always about the experience. So, technically, should it even just be

technically, should it even just be technically, should it even just be about the product or should the

about the product or should the about the product or should the experience lead it overall? Um the

experience lead it overall? Um the experience lead it overall? Um the product teams obviously focus on the

product teams obviously focus on the product teams obviously focus on the experience the designers as well and

experience the designers as well and experience the designers as well and then obviously we have conversion rate

then obviously we have conversion rate then obviously we have conversion rate optimization teams that focus on the

optimization teams that focus on the optimization teams that focus on the experience and the journeys together

experience and the journeys together experience and the journeys together with the UX team you know it get quite

with the UX team you know it get quite with the UX team you know it get quite vast um so I wouldn't say product on its

vast um so I wouldn't say product on its vast um so I wouldn't say product on its own um should be the movement basically

own um should be the movement basically own um should be the movement basically but it should more be a collaboration

but it should more be a collaboration but it should more be a collaboration and and that's how I see it

and and that's how I see it and and that's how I see it >> okay I want to talk about the >> okay I want to talk about the >> okay I want to talk about the controversial stuff which is I've been

controversial stuff which is I've been controversial stuff which is I've been watching what's happening on LinkedIn watching what's happening on LinkedIn watching what's happening on LinkedIn I've seen more designers saying hey I'm

I've seen more designers saying hey I'm I've seen more designers saying hey I'm looking for looking for looking for And even companies saying, "Hey, this And even companies saying, "Hey, this And even companies saying, "Hey, this person's talented, but we don't need

person's talented, but we don't need person's talented, but we don't need them anymore." Like, they're not saying

them anymore." Like, they're not saying them anymore." Like, they're not saying they don't need them anymore, but I

they don't need them anymore, but I they don't need them anymore, but I mean, I'm seeing the design space on

mean, I'm seeing the design space on mean, I'm seeing the design space on LinkedIn and X, uh, they're starting to

LinkedIn and X, uh, they're starting to LinkedIn and X, uh, they're starting to freak out. And I don't blame them

freak out. And I don't blame them freak out. And I don't blame them because I'm a self-taught designer, and

because I'm a self-taught designer, and because I'm a self-taught designer, and the tools I'm using now for design,

the tools I'm using now for design, the tools I'm using now for design, they're just insane. I'm like, I I feel

they're just insane. I'm like, I I feel they're just insane. I'm like, I I feel like five years ago, I would have loved

like five years ago, I would have loved like five years ago, I would have loved to have an army of designers. I would

to have an army of designers. I would to have an army of designers. I would have been like, this is a war chest.

have been like, this is a war chest. have been like, this is a war chest. Now, I'm like, I have that in my AI

Now, I'm like, I have that in my AI Now, I'm like, I have that in my AI tools. So what do you think is the the

tools. So what do you think is the the tools. So what do you think is the the new world of design and how do people if

new world of design and how do people if new world of design and how do people if they want to not just keep a job but use

they want to not just keep a job but use they want to not just keep a job but use it so they actually level up like what

it so they actually level up like what it so they actually level up like what do they need to be looking at?

do they need to be looking at? do they need to be looking at? >> Look when it comes to AI and design

>> Look when it comes to AI and design >> Look when it comes to AI and design itself um I do see it as a big asset for

itself um I do see it as a big asset for itself um I do see it as a big asset for a designer rather than just something to

a designer rather than just something to a designer rather than just something to worry about for a few reasons. One of

worry about for a few reasons. One of worry about for a few reasons. One of them for me is since AI was made

them for me is since AI was made them for me is since AI was made available to us when it comes to

available to us when it comes to available to us when it comes to designers basically in general. Um I

designers basically in general. Um I designers basically in general. Um I felt like I had more time for creativity

felt like I had more time for creativity felt like I had more time for creativity rather than execution. And I do see I I

rather than execution. And I do see I I rather than execution. And I do see I I I saw the uh the latest Adobe keynote

I saw the uh the latest Adobe keynote I saw the uh the latest Adobe keynote for example that um they had this Land

for example that um they had this Land for example that um they had this Land Rover in the background um you know and

Rover in the background um you know and Rover in the background um you know and there was this pond with the reflection

there was this pond with the reflection there was this pond with the reflection and everything and as soon as they and everything and as soon as they and everything and as soon as they erased it the reflection also was erased it the reflection also was erased it the reflection also was removed in the pond without selecting

removed in the pond without selecting removed in the pond without selecting it. That was mind-blowing. So, so that's

it. That was mind-blowing. So, so that's it. That was mind-blowing. So, so that's the next step right so that facilitates

the next step right so that facilitates the next step right so that facilitates the execution but when it comes to the

the execution but when it comes to the the execution but when it comes to the creativity then perhaps you can focus on

creativity then perhaps you can focus on creativity then perhaps you can focus on you know position the Land Rover better

you know position the Land Rover better you know position the Land Rover better and we don't have time or you know

and we don't have time or you know and we don't have time or you know usually we have um deadlines which are

usually we have um deadlines which are usually we have um deadlines which are quite tight let's put it this way um

quite tight let's put it this way um quite tight let's put it this way um it's never it's never things that needed

it's never it's never things that needed it's never it's never things that needed are needed a couple of days from now but

are needed a couple of days from now but are needed a couple of days from now but you know yesterday as always um so I do

you know yesterday as always um so I do you know yesterday as always um so I do think that that uh adds value for us in

think that that uh adds value for us in think that that uh adds value for us in order to be more creative so when it

order to be more creative so when it order to be more creative so when it comes to then um what kind of skill sets

comes to then um what kind of skill sets comes to then um what kind of skill sets these designers should be looking for.

these designers should be looking for. these designers should be looking for. Look, I'll tell you basically my

Look, I'll tell you basically my Look, I'll tell you basically my progression. I started from simply

progression. I started from simply progression. I started from simply sketching on an old notepads, you know,

sketching on an old notepads, you know, sketching on an old notepads, you know, loving arts. Moved up to graphic design

loving arts. Moved up to graphic design loving arts. Moved up to graphic design because that was the only way I could

because that was the only way I could because that was the only way I could make money out of my passion. Let's put

make money out of my passion. Let's put make money out of my passion. Let's put it this way. Obviously, you could go

it this way. Obviously, you could go it this way. Obviously, you could go with art and perhaps try to be the next

with art and perhaps try to be the next with art and perhaps try to be the next Picasso, but I don't think that's going

Picasso, but I don't think that's going Picasso, but I don't think that's going to work. Um at least for me. So once I

to work. Um at least for me. So once I to work. Um at least for me. So once I moved to graphic design, then I started

moved to graphic design, then I started moved to graphic design, then I started doing design for some websites. Wanted

doing design for some websites. Wanted doing design for some websites. Wanted obviously to jump into web design

obviously to jump into web design obviously to jump into web design because that's where the money was at

because that's where the money was at because that's where the money was at started doing web design. When you're

started doing web design. When you're started doing web design. When you're doing websites, you figure out, oh, you

doing websites, you figure out, oh, you doing websites, you figure out, oh, you need backends, you need this stuff

need backends, you need this stuff need backends, you need this stuff because obviously things gets more

because obviously things gets more because obviously things gets more complex. So then you move down to the

complex. So then you move down to the complex. So then you move down to the development sites. Automatically you

development sites. Automatically you development sites. Automatically you have all these three three skill sets.

have all these three three skill sets. have all these three three skill sets. Uh you become a product designer. So

Uh you become a product designer. So Uh you become a product designer. So after that UI is a natural progression

after that UI is a natural progression after that UI is a natural progression for you to focus on. Then if you want to

for you to focus on. Then if you want to for you to focus on. Then if you want to go you can jump into UX user experience

go you can jump into UX user experience go you can jump into UX user experience and from there if you want to see the

and from there if you want to see the and from there if you want to see the whole holistic thing from a brand whole holistic thing from a brand whole holistic thing from a brand perspective which if you've been a

perspective which if you've been a perspective which if you've been a designer you have the experience for you

designer you have the experience for you designer you have the experience for you jump into customer experience and I

jump into customer experience and I jump into customer experience and I think focusing on brands products and UX

think focusing on brands products and UX think focusing on brands products and UX will eventually give you so much roles

will eventually give you so much roles will eventually give you so much roles that you could tap into. Um and today

that you could tap into. Um and today that you could tap into. Um and today things are becoming very specific things are becoming very specific things are becoming very specific especially in big companies. um certain

especially in big companies. um certain especially in big companies. um certain team has specific product designers

team has specific product designers team has specific product designers doing certain things. Uh I personally

doing certain things. Uh I personally doing certain things. Uh I personally now diverted a bit um into customer

now diverted a bit um into customer now diverted a bit um into customer experience and that brought with it

experience and that brought with it experience and that brought with it experimentation for me. So obviously

experimentation for me. So obviously experimentation for me. So obviously looking at KPIs trying you know to

looking at KPIs trying you know to looking at KPIs trying you know to maximize conversion because obviously

maximize conversion because obviously maximize conversion because obviously that's why we're designing journeys. So

that's why we're designing journeys. So that's why we're designing journeys. So I do see it now kind of from uh from a

I do see it now kind of from uh from a I do see it now kind of from uh from a business point of view as well. So yeah,

business point of view as well. So yeah, business point of view as well. So yeah, I mean that's the natural progression

I mean that's the natural progression I mean that's the natural progression for me and probably that's that's how

for me and probably that's that's how for me and probably that's that's how every designer should push it. Not

every designer should push it. Not every designer should push it. Not everyone has that passion obviously or

everyone has that passion obviously or everyone has that passion obviously or that uh hunger. Let's call it this way.

that uh hunger. Let's call it this way. that uh hunger. Let's call it this way. Um but yeah, I mean it's natural to just

Um but yeah, I mean it's natural to just Um but yeah, I mean it's natural to just blowing through that potentially what

blowing through that potentially what blowing through that potentially what you said I feel like I can relate like

you said I feel like I can relate like you said I feel like I can relate like just as an example it's like you know

just as an example it's like you know just as an example it's like you know I'm a self-taught designer where I

I'm a self-taught designer where I I'm a self-taught designer where I started with Corell Draw a long time

started with Corell Draw a long time started with Corell Draw a long time ago. Um, you know, I got into Photoshop

ago. Um, you know, I got into Photoshop ago. Um, you know, I got into Photoshop and then I replaced that with I think

and then I replaced that with I think and then I replaced that with I think Sketch and then Figma and then now I'm

Sketch and then Figma and then now I'm Sketch and then Figma and then now I'm using a lot of AI tools. And what I'm

using a lot of AI tools. And what I'm using a lot of AI tools. And what I'm finding is that back in the day, like if

finding is that back in the day, like if finding is that back in the day, like if I wanted to design something, I I felt

I wanted to design something, I I felt I wanted to design something, I I felt like I didn't have the opportunity just

like I didn't have the opportunity just like I didn't have the opportunity just to ask designers. I had some friends

to ask designers. I had some friends to ask designers. I had some friends that I'd send them emails, hey, what do

that I'd send them emails, hey, what do that I'd send them emails, hey, what do you think? But now I feel like with AI

you think? But now I feel like with AI you think? But now I feel like with AI tools, I can actually take my designs

tools, I can actually take my designs tools, I can actually take my designs and going, is there a clever way of

and going, is there a clever way of and going, is there a clever way of trying to solve? So, I'm basically

trying to solve? So, I'm basically trying to solve? So, I'm basically writing the prompt and saying,"I want to

writing the prompt and saying,"I want to writing the prompt and saying,"I want to achieve this and I don't even know what

achieve this and I don't even know what achieve this and I don't even know what this looks like, but I'm actually this looks like, but I'm actually this looks like, but I'm actually getting crazy feedback and I'm just

getting crazy feedback and I'm just getting crazy feedback and I'm just wondering, am I the only one doing

wondering, am I the only one doing wondering, am I the only one doing this?" And I'm not thinking I'm smart by

this?" And I'm not thinking I'm smart by this?" And I'm not thinking I'm smart by any means, but I'm just like I'm just

any means, but I'm just like I'm just any means, but I'm just like I'm just experimenting, throwing stuff on the experimenting, throwing stuff on the experimenting, throwing stuff on the wall. And the stuff I'm getting back, wall. And the stuff I'm getting back, wall. And the stuff I'm getting back, I'm like, wait a minute. I I'm I'm not

I'm like, wait a minute. I I'm I'm not I'm like, wait a minute. I I'm I'm not reading the stuff on LinkedIn or Twitter

reading the stuff on LinkedIn or Twitter reading the stuff on LinkedIn or Twitter in the design communities.

in the design communities. in the design communities. Look, I tell you one thing. The company

Look, I tell you one thing. The company Look, I tell you one thing. The company recently um initiated a hackathon for

recently um initiated a hackathon for recently um initiated a hackathon for for most of the employees. Um and I

for most of the employees. Um and I for most of the employees. Um and I haven't developed them quite a bit, you

haven't developed them quite a bit, you haven't developed them quite a bit, you know, when it comes to web design. Um

know, when it comes to web design. Um know, when it comes to web design. Um and they introduced us to love a bit

and they introduced us to love a bit and they introduced us to love a bit which you know it was a tool. So uh V

which you know it was a tool. So uh V which you know it was a tool. So uh V coding was um let's just put it this way

coding was um let's just put it this way coding was um let's just put it this way was just incredible for me like imagine

was just incredible for me like imagine was just incredible for me like imagine a designer right which I have experience

a designer right which I have experience a designer right which I have experience of code but at the same time this thing

of code but at the same time this thing of code but at the same time this thing was generating stuff in a day I've built

was generating stuff in a day I've built was generating stuff in a day I've built a whole prototype that I could easily

a whole prototype that I could easily a whole prototype that I could easily show to clients or or you know to

show to clients or or you know to show to clients or or you know to potential uh CEOs and say listen this is

potential uh CEOs and say listen this is potential uh CEOs and say listen this is could be the way we go just you know

could be the way we go just you know could be the way we go just you know obviously because you have these ideas obviously because you have these ideas obviously because you have these ideas coming out and you're just materializing

coming out and you're just materializing coming out and you're just materializing everything at once. It was so

everything at once. It was so everything at once. It was so refreshing, honest. So, I I found it

refreshing, honest. So, I I found it refreshing, honest. So, I I found it that quite incredible and um I got even

that quite incredible and um I got even that quite incredible and um I got even more excited about.

more excited about. more excited about. >> Yeah. Something that I I think I've

>> Yeah. Something that I I think I've >> Yeah. Something that I I think I've noticed as well. You must see this all noticed as well. You must see this all noticed as well. You must see this all the time where you look at another

the time where you look at another the time where you look at another affiliates or competitor's website and

affiliates or competitor's website and affiliates or competitor's website and you're like, "Okay, they have a very

you're like, "Okay, they have a very you're like, "Okay, they have a very good UX designer, but there's no

good UX designer, but there's no good UX designer, but there's no customer experience behind this because customer experience behind this because customer experience behind this because you're like, design check. Uh passion

you're like, design check. Uh passion you're like, design check. Uh passion and soul is just missing its dead." And

and soul is just missing its dead." And and soul is just missing its dead." And I don't want to name those sites, but I don't want to name those sites, but I don't want to name those sites, but you must look at them all the time and you must look at them all the time and you must look at them all the time and going, what are these companies doing?

going, what are these companies doing? going, what are these companies doing? >> Look, sometimes when I look at

>> Look, sometimes when I look at >> Look, sometimes when I look at competitors, it's it's a love page

competitors, it's it's a love page competitors, it's it's a love page relationship. Uh, I'll give you the

relationship. Uh, I'll give you the relationship. Uh, I'll give you the reason why because some of them don't

reason why because some of them don't reason why because some of them don't look the parts and they really are

look the parts and they really are look the parts and they really are nailing it when it comes to traffic

nailing it when it comes to traffic nailing it when it comes to traffic convers because obviously as affiliates, convers because obviously as affiliates, convers because obviously as affiliates, you know, we focus mainly on SEO, um,

you know, we focus mainly on SEO, um, you know, we focus mainly on SEO, um, PPC. Um I think for the past perhaps

PPC. Um I think for the past perhaps PPC. Um I think for the past perhaps couple of years I focused solely on

couple of years I focused solely on couple of years I focused solely on optimization and I put kind of design

optimization and I put kind of design optimization and I put kind of design just aside you know so I focus on that

just aside you know so I focus on that just aside you know so I focus on that first and then I see what I can make

first and then I see what I can make first and then I see what I can make things pretty you know so and I do see

things pretty you know so and I do see things pretty you know so and I do see that most of uh competitors are throwing

that most of uh competitors are throwing that most of uh competitors are throwing stuff out there just trying stuff out

stuff out there just trying stuff out stuff out there just trying stuff out and see what works and worry about the

and see what works and worry about the and see what works and worry about the design leader. design leader. design leader. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and I think in the end you know

>> Um and I think in the end you know >> Um and I think in the end you know conversion is is key right? Um it is

conversion is is key right? Um it is conversion is is key right? Um it is annoying as from coming from a designer

annoying as from coming from a designer annoying as from coming from a designer as well like you know it shouldn't be

as well like you know it shouldn't be as well like you know it shouldn't be this way you know why this is working

this way you know why this is working this way you know why this is working but at the same time um you know you

but at the same time um you know you but at the same time um you know you have to keep up with your with the have to keep up with your with the have to keep up with your with the competition so so but what I personally

competition so so but what I personally competition so so but what I personally believe to be true as someone who spent

believe to be true as someone who spent believe to be true as someone who spent a lot of time in trying to rank sites

a lot of time in trying to rank sites a lot of time in trying to rank sites and having to spend more time on the

and having to spend more time on the and having to spend more time on the conversion side than the design side um

conversion side than the design side um conversion side than the design side um I actually think when you build a better

I actually think when you build a better I actually think when you build a better product it's becoming part of the new

product it's becoming part of the new product it's becoming part of the new framework for how does Google respect

framework for how does Google respect framework for how does Google respect you how does Google know that you're

you how does Google know that you're you how does Google know that you're worth mentioning in AI overviews. How

worth mentioning in AI overviews. How worth mentioning in AI overviews. How how do people link to you? It's I think

how do people link to you? It's I think how do people link to you? It's I think when you build a better product, um

when you build a better product, um when you build a better product, um you're starting to get things that are you're starting to get things that are you're starting to get things that are not as tangible like word of mouth or

not as tangible like word of mouth or not as tangible like word of mouth or people sending links to your product to

people sending links to your product to people sending links to your product to other people which are customers and you

other people which are customers and you other people which are customers and you know that's kind of like the metric I

know that's kind of like the metric I know that's kind of like the metric I think that we all aspire to but

think that we all aspire to but think that we all aspire to but sometimes they're very difficult to sometimes they're very difficult to sometimes they're very difficult to measure. measure. measure. >> Yes, it's um let's just put it this way

>> Yes, it's um let's just put it this way >> Yes, it's um let's just put it this way when it comes to affiliation, right?

when it comes to affiliation, right? when it comes to affiliation, right? um Google I think using the your money

um Google I think using the your money um Google I think using the your money or life initiatives you know and and all

or life initiatives you know and and all or life initiatives you know and and all that I think it's helping us even from a

that I think it's helping us even from a that I think it's helping us even from a customer and user experience point of

customer and user experience point of customer and user experience point of view. Um, so we're not I I not we're not

view. Um, so we're not I I not we're not view. Um, so we're not I I not we're not we we are distancing ourself more from

we we are distancing ourself more from we we are distancing ourself more from the wild west that gaming was at one

the wild west that gaming was at one the wild west that gaming was at one point and then we're becoming more like

point and then we're becoming more like point and then we're becoming more like this product or this brand um that needs

this product or this brand um that needs this product or this brand um that needs to be perceived by the users and that's

to be perceived by the users and that's to be perceived by the users and that's that's where AX would jump in and kind

that's where AX would jump in and kind that's where AX would jump in and kind of you know without this without your

of you know without this without your of you know without this without your money or life without the content being

money or life without the content being money or life without the content being you know um addressing all the issues

you know um addressing all the issues you know um addressing all the issues and concerns and basically um meeting

and concerns and basically um meeting and concerns and basically um meeting the user requirements ments you wouldn't

the user requirements ments you wouldn't the user requirements ments you wouldn't be able to step into this into the next

be able to step into this into the next be able to step into this into the next step, right? Um so definitely it's it's

step, right? Um so definitely it's it's step, right? Um so definitely it's it's something that we're changing into. Um

something that we're changing into. Um something that we're changing into. Um it doesn't work on every market. I have

it doesn't work on every market. I have it doesn't work on every market. I have to be honest. Um but for me obviously

to be honest. Um but for me obviously to be honest. Um but for me obviously the value is in the brand is in building

the value is in the brand is in building the value is in the brand is in building a product that works works well and the

a product that works works well and the a product that works works well and the user want you definitely.

user want you definitely. user want you definitely. >> All right. So that sets us up for what

>> All right. So that sets us up for what >> All right. So that sets us up for what is AX? I mean it stands for I think

is AX? I mean it stands for I think is AX? I mean it stands for I think agentic experience. Um it's the first

agentic experience. Um it's the first agentic experience. Um it's the first time I've heard about this in a week time I've heard about this in a week time I've heard about this in a week ago, but I have been studying uh agentic

ago, but I have been studying uh agentic ago, but I have been studying uh agentic agents for different projects. Uh tell

agents for different projects. Uh tell agents for different projects. Uh tell us tell us what we're we're talking

us tell us what we're we're talking us tell us what we're we're talking about. about. about. >> Um I mean from my point of view, it's

>> Um I mean from my point of view, it's >> Um I mean from my point of view, it's always very new to me, right? Um I've

always very new to me, right? Um I've always very new to me, right? Um I've been I've been looking into user

been I've been looking into user been I've been looking into user experience for quite a while and

experience for quite a while and experience for quite a while and honestly the way things are moving um

honestly the way things are moving um honestly the way things are moving um with AI, it's a matter of time where um

with AI, it's a matter of time where um with AI, it's a matter of time where um we'll have the agent kind of crawl our

we'll have the agent kind of crawl our we'll have the agent kind of crawl our content or crawl our products. Okay. and

content or crawl our products. Okay. and content or crawl our products. Okay. and and that's what uh agentic experience

and that's what uh agentic experience and that's what uh agentic experience is. It's basically doing UX but for the

is. It's basically doing UX but for the is. It's basically doing UX but for the agent rather than the user. Um this kind

agent rather than the user. Um this kind agent rather than the user. Um this kind of

of of goes into quite a few parts. Let's put

goes into quite a few parts. Let's put goes into quite a few parts. Let's put it this way. Um because there is there

it this way. Um because there is there it this way. Um because there is there is some assumptions at the moment of how

is some assumptions at the moment of how is some assumptions at the moment of how this is working. Um and also how you

this is working. Um and also how you this is working. Um and also how you going to execute it, right? Um because

going to execute it, right? Um because going to execute it, right? Um because obviously for example um when we do look

obviously for example um when we do look obviously for example um when we do look at our data you know we have bots you

at our data you know we have bots you at our data you know we have bots you know just votes on the user we just make

know just votes on the user we just make know just votes on the user we just make sure you know that our experiences are

sure you know that our experiences are sure you know that our experiences are meeting the user but by doing that are

meeting the user but by doing that are meeting the user but by doing that are we unintentionally blocking in these

we unintentionally blocking in these we unintentionally blocking in these user that are using these experiences

user that are using these experiences user that are using these experiences right or and these agents. Um so so this

right or and these agents. Um so so this right or and these agents. Um so so this is one of the concerns. For example, um

is one of the concerns. For example, um is one of the concerns. For example, um I think when it comes to uh these

I think when it comes to uh these I think when it comes to uh these agents, the goal is for them to make

agents, the goal is for them to make agents, the goal is for them to make sure that they are crawling to your

sure that they are crawling to your sure that they are crawling to your content the same as a user would. Um for

content the same as a user would. Um for content the same as a user would. Um for example, when if you create a journey

example, when if you create a journey example, when if you create a journey just for them. Would you need buttons?

just for them. Would you need buttons? just for them. Would you need buttons? Not really. You know, would you need um

Not really. You know, would you need um Not really. You know, would you need um visual elements? Depends. you know if

visual elements? Depends. you know if visual elements? Depends. you know if the user is interacting everything by

the user is interacting everything by the user is interacting everything by voice or by via their own chat and you

voice or by via their own chat and you voice or by via their own chat and you know this is feeding into this know this is feeding into this know this is feeding into this information then it's another story but

information then it's another story but information then it's another story but obviously this started creating some

obviously this started creating some obviously this started creating some issues I don't know if you know about issues I don't know if you know about issues I don't know if you know about Google zero for example where you know

Google zero for example where you know Google zero for example where you know Gemini ch and any other content are

Gemini ch and any other content are Gemini ch and any other content are getting all these results from us you

getting all these results from us you getting all these results from us you know from our sites from our content and

know from our sites from our content and know from our sites from our content and that's basically it's a concern so with

that's basically it's a concern so with that's basically it's a concern so with this in mind we will eventually become

this in mind we will eventually become this in mind we will eventually become an agent as a brand that holds it

an agent as a brand that holds it an agent as a brand that holds it information that a user can access, you

information that a user can access, you information that a user can access, you know, to get the get what they want. Um,

know, to get the get what they want. Um, know, to get the get what they want. Um, yeah, it's quite, as you said, quite the

yeah, it's quite, as you said, quite the yeah, it's quite, as you said, quite the bit of a rabbit hole, right? bit of a rabbit hole, right? bit of a rabbit hole, right? >> Basically, the network moving. So, but,

>> Basically, the network moving. So, but, >> Basically, the network moving. So, but, you know, a lot of concerns will come as

you know, a lot of concerns will come as you know, a lot of concerns will come as we go, I'm sure. we go, I'm sure. we go, I'm sure. >> Do you think that would uh lead to

>> Do you think that would uh lead to >> Do you think that would uh lead to people creating markdown files for every

people creating markdown files for every people creating markdown files for every page they have? Like, I think I'm

page they have? Like, I think I'm page they have? Like, I think I'm actually seeing some sites do this. when

actually seeing some sites do this. when actually seeing some sites do this. when I look at them, I'm like, "Okay, I know

I look at them, I'm like, "Okay, I know I look at them, I'm like, "Okay, I know they're doing it programmatically and

they're doing it programmatically and they're doing it programmatically and automatically," which is great. That's

automatically," which is great. That's automatically," which is great. That's also kind of a lot of work. I think,

also kind of a lot of work. I think, also kind of a lot of work. I think, >> you know, how we um kind of do Quio when

>> you know, how we um kind of do Quio when >> you know, how we um kind of do Quio when it comes, you know, putting our um site

it comes, you know, putting our um site it comes, you know, putting our um site maps, you know, in an XML file and

maps, you know, in an XML file and maps, you know, in an XML file and making sure Google is scrollable these

making sure Google is scrollable these making sure Google is scrollable these pages through Google console and so

pages through Google console and so pages through Google console and so forth. I do think it will work the same forth. I do think it will work the same forth. I do think it will work the same way, obviously, through a different type

way, obviously, through a different type way, obviously, through a different type of file code or whatever. if it's not

of file code or whatever. if it's not of file code or whatever. if it's not through our site, it could be um you

through our site, it could be um you through our site, it could be um you know built in to through this agent that

know built in to through this agent that know built in to through this agent that you know will be accessible from you know will be accessible from you know will be accessible from different I don't know platforms, apps

different I don't know platforms, apps different I don't know platforms, apps or whatever. And this is just obviously

or whatever. And this is just obviously or whatever. And this is just obviously a hypothetical assumption from my side.

a hypothetical assumption from my side. a hypothetical assumption from my side. Um but yeah, I mean I tried I tried to

Um but yeah, I mean I tried I tried to Um but yeah, I mean I tried I tried to ask Chad GB how this would work and it

ask Chad GB how this would work and it ask Chad GB how this would work and it started already coding some stuff um in

started already coding some stuff um in started already coding some stuff um in a language where I believe it was using

a language where I believe it was using a language where I believe it was using React or some sort um React TypeScript

React or some sort um React TypeScript React or some sort um React TypeScript for sure um where it's starting saying

for sure um where it's starting saying for sure um where it's starting saying oh look you know if an agent crawls

oh look you know if an agent crawls oh look you know if an agent crawls through this you know this is the way

through this you know this is the way through this you know this is the way they should go this is the options you

they should go this is the options you they should go this is the options you could give it you know and for them to

could give it you know and for them to could give it you know and for them to kind of end up I don't know on the on

kind of end up I don't know on the on kind of end up I don't know on the on the on the operator side for example I

the on the operator side for example I the on the operator side for example I don't know but uh yeah It's uh as I said

don't know but uh yeah It's uh as I said don't know but uh yeah It's uh as I said like it's very new and fresh at the same

like it's very new and fresh at the same like it's very new and fresh at the same time. Uh interesting.

time. Uh interesting. time. Uh interesting. >> Yeah, I've seen a few people post this I

>> Yeah, I've seen a few people post this I >> Yeah, I've seen a few people post this I think on Facebook and LinkedIn. So I

think on Facebook and LinkedIn. So I think on Facebook and LinkedIn. So I think after this uh recording I'm

think after this uh recording I'm think after this uh recording I'm probably going to do the same thing. I'm probably going to do the same thing. I'm probably going to do the same thing. I'm going to go back to code and I'm going

going to go back to code and I'm going going to go back to code and I'm going to ask the same question. Hey this how

to ask the same question. Hey this how to ask the same question. Hey this how people use our site currently but if we

people use our site currently but if we people use our site currently but if we were to kind of uh try to make this ax

were to kind of uh try to make this ax were to kind of uh try to make this ax friendly uh what does this look like and

friendly uh what does this look like and friendly uh what does this look like and what should we consider? And I'm sure what should we consider? And I'm sure what should we consider? And I'm sure I'm probably going to get a lot of uh

I'm probably going to get a lot of uh I'm probably going to get a lot of uh good ideas and feedback on it.

good ideas and feedback on it. good ideas and feedback on it. because we need to consider that down

because we need to consider that down because we need to consider that down the line we will users interact with

the line we will users interact with the line we will users interact with search engines anymore you know will

search engines anymore you know will search engines anymore you know will will they just interact with those blue

will they just interact with those blue will they just interact with those blue links I I I don't believe so I think you

links I I I don't believe so I think you links I I I don't believe so I think you know especially JGBT launching their own

know especially JGBT launching their own know especially JGBT launching their own Chrome browser um kind of copycats and

Chrome browser um kind of copycats and Chrome browser um kind of copycats and kind of you know how it is with JGBT for

kind of you know how it is with JGBT for kind of you know how it is with JGBT for example you can add your own agents you

example you can add your own agents you example you can add your own agents you know your own models I do believe that

know your own models I do believe that know your own models I do believe that brands will be able to create product

brands will be able to create product brands will be able to create product like that um I've been looking in fact

like that um I've been looking in fact like that um I've been looking in fact researching this um the Expedia already

researching this um the Expedia already researching this um the Expedia already has their own agent that you could use has their own agent that you could use has their own agent that you could use you know to build your travel plans. So

you know to build your travel plans. So you know to build your travel plans. So perhaps you know as affiliates will

perhaps you know as affiliates will perhaps you know as affiliates will become having our brands in there that

become having our brands in there that become having our brands in there that user can search use it you know to make

user can search use it you know to make user can search use it you know to make sure they get the right deals and the

sure they get the right deals and the sure they get the right deals and the right stuff for example um on the

right stuff for example um on the right stuff for example um on the operators. I'm not sure but yeah it's

operators. I'm not sure but yeah it's operators. I'm not sure but yeah it's it's it's where it seeing I don't know.

it's it's where it seeing I don't know. it's it's where it seeing I don't know. >> Well it's funny you just said I'm not

>> Well it's funny you just said I'm not >> Well it's funny you just said I'm not sure but at the same time as you just

sure but at the same time as you just sure but at the same time as you just finished that whole sentence I'm like

finished that whole sentence I'm like finished that whole sentence I'm like you've just changed uh priority in our

you've just changed uh priority in our you've just changed uh priority in our company for next year. something we're

company for next year. something we're company for next year. something we're going to do anyways, but it's now going

going to do anyways, but it's now going going to do anyways, but it's now going very high up to the top because like

very high up to the top because like very high up to the top because like I'll just tell you exactly what it is.

I'll just tell you exactly what it is. I'll just tell you exactly what it is. So, we're we're an app for affiliates to

So, we're we're an app for affiliates to So, we're we're an app for affiliates to help get their data. Okay, that's step help get their data. Okay, that's step help get their data. Okay, that's step one. So, by nature, we have all these

one. So, by nature, we have all these one. So, by nature, we have all these affiliate program reviews. And what

affiliate program reviews. And what affiliate program reviews. And what we've realized is that a lot of our

we've realized is that a lot of our we've realized is that a lot of our customers, they're actually doing

customers, they're actually doing customers, they're actually doing searches more on the brands. So, we have

searches more on the brands. So, we have searches more on the brands. So, we have everything. We start from an affiliate everything. We start from an affiliate everything. We start from an affiliate program and then it's the brands are a

program and then it's the brands are a program and then it's the brands are a subset, but they're actually searching

subset, but they're actually searching subset, but they're actually searching more for the brand than they are the more for the brand than they are the more for the brand than they are the affiliate program. Well, the thing that

affiliate program. Well, the thing that affiliate program. Well, the thing that we want to do next is we want to be

we want to do next is we want to be we want to do next is we want to be like, well, what is useful for an

like, well, what is useful for an like, well, what is useful for an affiliate to to search inside of our

affiliate to to search inside of our affiliate to to search inside of our app? And one of the examples we believe

app? And one of the examples we believe app? And one of the examples we believe to be true would be like, well, what are to be true would be like, well, what are to be true would be like, well, what are the bonuses available in each market?

the bonuses available in each market? the bonuses available in each market? So, that's a lot of data. That's data

So, that's a lot of data. That's data So, that's a lot of data. That's data that you have on your side that's in

that you have on your side that's in that you have on your side that's in your entire ecosystem. But, we have to

your entire ecosystem. But, we have to your entire ecosystem. But, we have to do this for I think 4,000 affiliate

do this for I think 4,000 affiliate do this for I think 4,000 affiliate programs, which is that's a lot of data.

programs, which is that's a lot of data. programs, which is that's a lot of data. uh we're planning to do it anyways, but

uh we're planning to do it anyways, but uh we're planning to do it anyways, but we think that by doing this, this is a

we think that by doing this, this is a we think that by doing this, this is a total UX uh AX play right here. It's a

total UX uh AX play right here. It's a total UX uh AX play right here. It's a perfect example for it. That's that's a

perfect example for it. That's that's a perfect example for it. That's that's a perfect example. Exactly. Because

perfect example. Exactly. Because perfect example. Exactly. Because obviously you're you're shifting um some

obviously you're you're shifting um some obviously you're you're shifting um some of your strategy into this, right? And I

of your strategy into this, right? And I of your strategy into this, right? And I do believe that um when it comes to

do believe that um when it comes to do believe that um when it comes to this, when it comes to X, it's not this, when it comes to X, it's not this, when it comes to X, it's not something that should, you know, just

something that should, you know, just something that should, you know, just replace whatever we're doing. I think

replace whatever we're doing. I think replace whatever we're doing. I think it's part of the innovation process. So

it's part of the innovation process. So it's part of the innovation process. So it should be you know uh its own lane

it should be you know uh its own lane it should be you know uh its own lane kind of going in line with the

kind of going in line with the kind of going in line with the day-to-day um and and including that and

day-to-day um and and including that and day-to-day um and and including that and including how how AX is evolving for us.

including how how AX is evolving for us. including how how AX is evolving for us. Um, as I said, uh, for example, I was

Um, as I said, uh, for example, I was Um, as I said, uh, for example, I was looking at the Amazon app very recently

looking at the Amazon app very recently looking at the Amazon app very recently and they including this chatbot that,

and they including this chatbot that, and they including this chatbot that, you know, it it's a it's a very, uh,

you know, it it's a it's a very, uh, you know, it it's a it's a very, uh, prominent icon on the top right if you

prominent icon on the top right if you prominent icon on the top right if you never saw it. And I interacted with it

never saw it. And I interacted with it never saw it. And I interacted with it like it I just asked a question, start

like it I just asked a question, start like it I just asked a question, start giving me products. So, you know, I see

giving me products. So, you know, I see giving me products. So, you know, I see bonuses, for example, could work the

bonuses, for example, could work the bonuses, for example, could work the same way.

same way. same way. Um, but at the same time, they clearly

Um, but at the same time, they clearly Um, but at the same time, they clearly stated, you know, it's better, right?

stated, you know, it's better, right? stated, you know, it's better, right? it's beta, you know, and it's uh it it

it's beta, you know, and it's uh it it it's beta, you know, and it's uh it it it's under works. So,

it's under works. So, it's under works. So, probably Amazon are not even sure about

probably Amazon are not even sure about probably Amazon are not even sure about that themselves. What what hit me there

that themselves. What what hit me there that themselves. What what hit me there was when it comes to the brand was um

was when it comes to the brand was um was when it comes to the brand was um that they use a different name rather that they use a different name rather that they use a different name rather than for example using Alexa you know

than for example using Alexa you know than for example using Alexa you know they called it real face and potentially

they called it real face and potentially they called it real face and potentially because of its face you know they didn't

because of its face you know they didn't because of its face you know they didn't want the big product with it or you know

want the big product with it or you know want the big product with it or you know but I read with some research I've read

but I read with some research I've read but I read with some research I've read that um they've done it just so it's a

that um they've done it just so it's a that um they've done it just so it's a different um it's a different product

different um it's a different product different um it's a different product you know and potentially when it comes

you know and potentially when it comes you know and potentially when it comes to our brands we'll have these little

to our brands we'll have these little to our brands we'll have these little agents you know that kind of do specific

agents you know that kind of do specific agents you know that kind of do specific things. So, it doesn't have to be just

things. So, it doesn't have to be just things. So, it doesn't have to be just one where you know you could basically

one where you know you could basically one where you know you could basically drill down all that information to them

drill down all that information to them drill down all that information to them and the user could pick oh yes I want

and the user could pick oh yes I want and the user could pick oh yes I want bonuses um you know I want um you know

bonuses um you know I want um you know bonuses um you know I want um you know top casino stops loss whatever you know

top casino stops loss whatever you know top casino stops loss whatever you know and all the information could be drilled

and all the information could be drilled and all the information could be drilled down through that

down through that down through that >> okay so this is amazing

>> okay so this is amazing >> okay so this is amazing >> right >> right >> right >> yeah so maybe just uh kind of go back to

>> yeah so maybe just uh kind of go back to >> yeah so maybe just uh kind of go back to like you know that controversial topic

like you know that controversial topic like you know that controversial topic it's a what should designers be doing if

it's a what should designers be doing if it's a what should designers be doing if they want to not just keep their job but

they want to not just keep their job but they want to not just keep their job but kind of like thrive and grow in the new

kind of like thrive and grow in the new kind of like thrive and grow in the new world of design and user experience and

world of design and user experience and world of design and user experience and agents.

agents. agents. >> I think adopt AI be open to it. Um when

>> I think adopt AI be open to it. Um when >> I think adopt AI be open to it. Um when it you know when it comes to AI when you

it you know when it comes to AI when you it you know when it comes to AI when you speak to most design they immediately go

speak to most design they immediately go speak to most design they immediately go journey you know and and nano banana

journey you know and and nano banana journey you know and and nano banana whatever but it's more to that um I do

whatever but it's more to that um I do whatever but it's more to that um I do believe um even Figma now are even

believe um even Figma now are even believe um even Figma now are even introducing a lot of AI features and

introducing a lot of AI features and introducing a lot of AI features and they're starting to monetize on that as

they're starting to monetize on that as they're starting to monetize on that as well which is very smart. So whatever

well which is very smart. So whatever well which is very smart. So whatever you try to do, I think AI is going to be

you try to do, I think AI is going to be you try to do, I think AI is going to be part of our life as we go. Um it already

part of our life as we go. Um it already part of our life as we go. Um it already is with simple inputs for most of us.

is with simple inputs for most of us. is with simple inputs for most of us. But I think if we if we start learning

But I think if we if we start learning But I think if we if we start learning how to make our execution faster um we

how to make our execution faster um we how to make our execution faster um we become better designers because you know

become better designers because you know become better designers because you know what sets us apart is the creativity and

what sets us apart is the creativity and what sets us apart is the creativity and the AI that it's it is creative you know

the AI that it's it is creative you know the AI that it's it is creative you know you can't deny it but at the same time

you can't deny it but at the same time you can't deny it but at the same time you still need some input from your side

you still need some input from your side you still need some input from your side to make that final vision happen right

to make that final vision happen right to make that final vision happen right um so so I do believe you know adopting

um so so I do believe you know adopting um so so I do believe you know adopting AI 100%

AI 100% AI 100% um and focus focus on user experience

um and focus focus on user experience um and focus focus on user experience more, you know, focus on what works for

more, you know, focus on what works for more, you know, focus on what works for the users, what makes them tick, their

the users, what makes them tick, their the users, what makes them tick, their pain points, and then just use AI to

pain points, and then just use AI to pain points, and then just use AI to facilitate that process.

facilitate that process. facilitate that process. >> Awesome, Jason. Thank you so much for

>> Awesome, Jason. Thank you so much for >> Awesome, Jason. Thank you so much for doing this. I want to pass it back to doing this. I want to pass it back to doing this. I want to pass it back to you. How can people get a hold of you?

you. How can people get a hold of you? you. How can people get a hold of you? >> Um, sure. You can reach out to me on

>> Um, sure. You can reach out to me on >> Um, sure. You can reach out to me on LinkedIn. Um, you know, we can we can

LinkedIn. Um, you know, we can we can LinkedIn. Um, you know, we can we can chat there and, you know, usually I

chat there and, you know, usually I chat there and, you know, usually I share some things here and there. Um,

share some things here and there. Um, share some things here and there. Um, yeah, but happy to connect through yeah, but happy to connect through yeah, but happy to connect through LinkedIn. LinkedIn. LinkedIn. >> Yeah. Like I said, I'm glad you shared

>> Yeah. Like I said, I'm glad you shared >> Yeah. Like I said, I'm glad you shared what you posted last week. I got super

what you posted last week. I got super what you posted last week. I got super excited reading it and um looking

excited reading it and um looking excited reading it and um looking forward to chatting a bit more and uh

forward to chatting a bit more and uh forward to chatting a bit more and uh kind of like keeping on top of what what

kind of like keeping on top of what what kind of like keeping on top of what what is happening in the the layers when it

is happening in the the layers when it is happening in the the layers when it comes to design, UX, CX, AX. Um

comes to design, UX, CX, AX. Um comes to design, UX, CX, AX. Um hopefully it stops there, but I mean,

hopefully it stops there, but I mean, hopefully it stops there, but I mean, you know, keep it's keeping us pretty you know, keep it's keeping us pretty you know, keep it's keeping us pretty busy as is.

busy as is. busy as is. >> Well, yes, I hope so it stops there.

>> Well, yes, I hope so it stops there. >> Well, yes, I hope so it stops there. But, you know, from experience, you But, you know, from experience, you But, you know, from experience, you know, they always start adding um some

know, they always start adding um some know, they always start adding um some new some new rows there. I think what's

new some new rows there. I think what's new some new rows there. I think what's important as I said experience is always

important as I said experience is always important as I said experience is always kind of in the end it's always it's

kind of in the end it's always it's kind of in the end it's always it's always there so focus on experience and

always there so focus on experience and always there so focus on experience and probably be future proof.

probably be future proof. probably be future proof. >> Awesome. Thank you Jason.

>> Awesome. Thank you Jason. >> Awesome. Thank you Jason. >> Thanks so much John. Thank

>> that was a great episode with Jason >> that was a great episode with Jason Atard director of CX and optimization at

Atard director of CX and optimization at Atard director of CX and optimization at Game Lounge. And I think the topic he

Game Lounge. And I think the topic he Game Lounge. And I think the topic he talked about today was possibly very

talked about today was possibly very talked about today was possibly very advanced. It's probably one to two

advanced. It's probably one to two advanced. It's probably one to two years, maybe even three years ahead of

years, maybe even three years ahead of years, maybe even three years ahead of its time where we have agents that

its time where we have agents that its time where we have agents that actually do work for us. Um, if you can

actually do work for us. Um, if you can actually do work for us. Um, if you can tell an agent what you need done, like

tell an agent what you need done, like tell an agent what you need done, like research or getting data from a website

research or getting data from a website research or getting data from a website and doing it on a schedule, I mean, this

and doing it on a schedule, I mean, this and doing it on a schedule, I mean, this is what agents are about. So, it's not

is what agents are about. So, it's not is what agents are about. So, it's not just making products and websites and

just making products and websites and just making products and websites and applications for users, it's actually

applications for users, it's actually applications for users, it's actually making them for agents. Um, and I've

making them for agents. Um, and I've making them for agents. Um, and I've already heard that uh agents in the next

already heard that uh agents in the next already heard that uh agents in the next couple years are going to really take

couple years are going to really take couple years are going to really take off. and I've got a lot of friends that off. and I've got a lot of friends that off. and I've got a lot of friends that are actually building a lot of agents as

are actually building a lot of agents as are actually building a lot of agents as we speak. Uh, speaking of agents and

we speak. Uh, speaking of agents and we speak. Uh, speaking of agents and cool stuff, uh, check out our website,

cool stuff, uh, check out our website, cool stuff, uh, check out our website, revenueoptimization.io.

revenueoptimization.io. revenueoptimization.io. Uh, we've built a really cool new

Uh, we've built a really cool new Uh, we've built a really cool new website built with AI and we're looking

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to add more features to make this a to add more features to make this a unique podcast website that you've not

unique podcast website that you've not unique podcast website that you've not seen before. And once again, uh, thank

seen before. And once again, uh, thank seen before. And once again, uh, thank you for listening. If you get a chance,

you for listening. If you get a chance, you for listening. If you get a chance, give us a rating or re review wherever

give us a rating or re review wherever give us a rating or re review wherever you listen to your podcast. and looking

you listen to your podcast. and looking you listen to your podcast. and looking forward to catching you on the next forward to catching you on the next forward to catching you on the next show. And once again, check out

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