Affiliate Networks 2.0: Why Services, Data and Relationships Matter with Alessandro Gherardi

Welcome to Revenue Optimization with Stats Drone. This affiliate marketing podcast is brought to you by Affiliate Track, which is an affiliate link research tool and affiliate finder. And also brought to you by Stats Drone, the best stats and analytics tool for affiliates, agencies, affiliate networks, and affiliate programs. Welcome to revenue optimization with Stats. We're chatting with Alessandro Gardi from Fuanto Agency and today we're going to talk about affiliate networks and it's a topic I'm pretty passionate about these days.

So, uh, Aleandro, uh, welcome to the show. >> Thank you, John. Uh, thank you for this opportunity uh, to having me in the the podcast and hi everyone. >> Yeah. So, let's start with the obvious where it's like we get a chance to talk about your affiliate network. um what did you do to try to make your network different or you know why should people consider your network when the last time I check I mean there's like thousands of networks out there >> yeah that that's

a good question um right now we are focusing to offer services to affiliates uh to offer events to offer I gaming conference tickets to offer for example football matches and matches and uh we we are we are closing some partnership as well with um uh with with some advertising platform that we we can we can give the access to our affiliates to and to have discounts for them.

Uh we are closing also some uh we are having some courses uh from regula regulation in in for example in Brazil to to offer our affiliates the the possibility to to get to know the course with a with a discount for example. So uh the thing is affiliate can can find campaigns and good good payouts good offers everywhere but the these kind of related services are very important to to offer to make their their life easier.

Let's say that >> then then you're feeding right into my next question which is kind of like I I wrote an article last year called affiliate network 2.0 you know, which is the evolution of the affiliate network. And I think there's a lot of networks that they're not evolving at all. And I actually believe what you just said is one of the key differentiators. It's the services part.

It's I know I can build my my websites with any way I want with the tools I want, but the second you start adding tools, you start adding value. And it goes without it saying, if you build a tool for one affiliate, that's great. But if you build it for your thousands of customers, then you help them elevate and it becomes your stronger differentiate differentiator. So would you say like the services part is going to be the future of where networks go?

networks go? networks go? >> Yeah, for sure. Because if you if you give to the affiliate the the the access to I don't know a football match or an anaming event, they will forever remember that you are doing this for them, you know. uh rather than than payouts. Of course, payouts is important. Uh financial stuff, let's say it's it's very important to pay on time and all this stuff that we know, but but the the the connection that you have, the human connection that you have,

it's a it's key point. Um sometimes we we speak a little bit about you know uh not human connection between between each other but if you if you if you have this kind of human connection it's a for me it's a win-win receipt for for an affiliate network to to grow and evolve. >> Okay. What you just said made me write down three questions. So let's start with um the the one of them which is how difficult is it to start an affiliate network?

People I think think it looks easy, but I got some friends that are just getting started and they're saying this is brutal. So is it? >> It's ve very difficult. That's that's a good question because I started like right now we have a proper team for affiliate for operator and finance and stuff like that. But I've started like uh back in the days five years ago and I received for the first year I received a lot of nos a lot of no thank you we are

not interested. We don't know you. uh so it's difficult to to get to start with and luckily we we had uh some some big big good affiliates with us and they helped us to grow uh but at the beginning yeah I agree with you like it's very very difficult to get to get um to get to know uh operators and clients I always remember my first conversion as an affiliate network it's um it's something that uh it's always on my mind because it's a very very

big achievement you What else? >> Okay. Then what's important for a network? I mean, I know you mentioned like, you know, payouts as being important, but what are the key ingredients that are just like non-negotiables that you have to bring to the table like to build those relationships and win those people over eventually? eventually? eventually? >> Yeah. For me, if you have and this is in in every business, but if you have a problem, you need to shop no matter the time, no matter the date,

but if you have an issue with with postback, with tracking, uh with payments, you need to shop. You need to explain, you have to be transparent be transparent uh with with your affiliates. For example, if there is an operator that is paying late, you have to be transparent with a field to show them what is the reality, what is the situation, to not promise something that you cannot do and and to be to be to be on top of the of the things, you know, to

have a team that uh that that that is with you, that is loyal to you, that is transparent to your clients and to your team as well. Because for me, transparency and honesty, it's the most important thing. >> Yeah. And >> and speaking of that very topic, so we have we're an integrator for affiliate programs and networks, and we're well over 2,000. And I can tell you we have at least one affiliate manager per program.

So that's 2,000 affiliate managers we have in our contacts. And I just think like especially in the eye gaming space that the the quality of conversations has just gotten worse year-over-year. I think a lot of the affiliate managers being hired, uh, they have a mandate. I need as many affiliates as possible and I need as many depositing players or as many sales as possible. They're not even caring about the quality that kind of flows through.

Um, I I think this is a pretty obvious reason why you'd want to work with a network. You just said that you have to work your ass off just to get these relationships. So, I mean, here we've got you building real relationships, which affiliates appreciate, and then other affiliate managers that treat us transactional. I mean, what do you think? Yeah. Yeah. I I totally agree with you.

There are a lot of um we are losing uh for me we are losing the human connection. We are thinking just about numbers, just about uh FTDs, conversion rate and this stuff. But uh behind this we we have p people you know and um funny enough to to note that all our biggest clients or our biggest operators is the operator that we have the more human relationship you know because if if you have for example a case of fraud a case of incentive traffic for example

we can solve the situation better if we if we have a if we have appreciate ourself as a human being you know uh because you you see that in the other part there is a person that has feelings that has issues you So that that's very important for for me and a lot of companies are not doing that. that. that. >> Yeah. Who knew that people want to buy from people?

from people? from people? >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that that that that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. >> Okay. Um landing pages. Let's say you're working with a new operator and you're trying out their offers and then you're realizing that maybe the conversion rate is just not as good. Do you go to them and say, "What landing pages do you have?" So just to give you some context, we're researching as many landing pages as we see the operators have.

So do you ever find some that have a small number and you say I need I need better? >> Yeah. Uh some sometimes we we we usually like to to have landing pages of registration page which is a little bit easier for the user to to register and deposit. Uh but also we we like to we have majority of our our traffic is slot let's say and casino traffic.

So usually we we focus on the best uh slots in the market. market. uh the the most the most common slots in the market which is always for example aviator it's a crash game but like uh we have uh I don't know in Brazil we have fortune tiger all the pg soft slots uh we have priority play um we have ruby play as well which is very good in Brazil very popular so we we prefer to to to have reg registration page with slots and but

to to have this you have to know the market you know you you cannot you cannot uh work in any market you you like because you you need to have boots on the ground. >> Okay. And what you just said is very interesting. Do you work with your affiliates and tell them that these landing pages convert better or do you just basically say we only get the best landing pages that you can get?

So what they're getting as inventory is basically the best. >> Yeah. Some operator show us like share with us the the details the reports of each landing page which is useful and some other operator they don't do that and it's it's a shame because they they kind of protect the information. I don't know why but but for us it's it's important to know which is the most important the most uh higher conversion rate we have because the thing is affiliate do not understand this h you

can get paid €200 for a FTD right but if the conversion rate is zero you will get paid zero so it's it's better to get paid less but the conversion rate is higher and instead of getting better payout and less conversion rate >> okay let's uh pivot into tracking you mentioned postback So I'm assuming that you obviously have postbacks. Do you have that across all your operators or is that most of them?

And what are the tracking mechanisms that you care about beyond postback? Like are we talking dynamic variables or we just saying like you know accounts, brands, campaigns with postbacks as being like a uh very important for maybe some of your your affiliates and publishers. >> Yeah, we we prefer postback because uh the information it's uh it's uh more valuable, more accurate. uh but also we track with we can track with API GTM we we image with image pixel we have uh we have less clients let's

say because image pixel is not very trustful let's say with for for tracking but but yeah postback in general we we track registration FTD and CPA usually with the with all operators >> okay and do you find the postbacks is more work or at least it's it's worth the effort for trying to get like you know the better the the higher detail in your data. your data.

>> Yeah. Know passback it's it's very good but it depends also on the affiliate software you know because there are many affiliate software that they they they work perfectly with prospects but some of them they they they have some data that they don't don't pass correctly you know you know this better than me I think. So yeah depends on the affiliate software. software. software. >> Yeah that that's another topic.

I mean uh we have a I just been working on a chart recently showing all the postbacks we get and this is not standardized at all and on top of it um maybe half of it it's actually real time >> which >> which they they say real time but it's not real time. real time. real time. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's that that's the quote of the day.

All right, then let's pivot to I got a question. So obviously I think you guys are a bit more data focused than the average network that I've talked to. So, as you're you're working with campaigns with your affiliates, even if they're not using postbacks, let's say you wanted to know the conversion rates of all the newsletters, let's say like maybe about 20% of your your publishers and affiliates are actually using a newsletter.

Do you have the ability to track that and know like this is my newsletter segment or do you think that requires a lot more work to work with the affiliate and say hey if you're going to use a newsletter use a separate link so we can see what's behind it and know the the the value and influence of that channel. that channel. that channel. >> Yeah we usually add the sub ID because in our platform you can you can split per sub ID.

Uh so so we we we usually add subd and and sub it's it's good enough to to to to work but in general if we have a bigger affili let's say we we prefer to to say to them to split to open multiple accounts for traffic source because it's it's easier to >> to get and manage and our platform it's very in my opinion it's very good so so I I think with with this they can easy easily better data Okay, then quick question.

Um, do you work more where it's um each each publisher and affiliate has their own account coming from the program or is it more like a line item where you have an account with like a master account and then it kind of uh you know you basically say like here's your link and it's it's split by sub ID Oh, we got some slowness. Um, okay. You there?

Test test test. Hi. Can you hear me? Can you see me? >> Yep. You're back. >> H. So, it's it was me. >> I think so, but I don't know. >> Okay. Because I was seeing me, but I was not seeing you. >> Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's I think it might have been on your side, but um we'll find out in the recording. It It's still showing on my side.

Everything's recording. So, we're obviously gonna have like a couple minute gap. So, um, that's very easy to stop, splice, stitch. It takes a minute. >> Yeah. If later you can send me the video like on Google Drive. >> Okay. Absolutely. So, I'm going to ask the question before we re-record, which is how do you set up your affiliate accounts? Like, do you go to the affiliate operator and create an account or are you basically using like a diamond variable sub ID and it's just they're created

automatically in your ledger? ledger? No, we usually create an account with the with the operator. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Uh we actually we we we like to create two accounts usually. So we have a backup account and just in case anything happen happen and also to split also internal traffic and external traffic because we are a network but we have also our internal traffic.

Uh we do email marketing, we have some websites, we do uh we do we do some internal traffic as well. it's let's say 15% of the net but but yeah we can offer both so and we also uh we also separate by source ID uh so we we give to the to the operator our source ID which is six numbers uh six numbers is our affiliate ID >> right >> right >> right >> um and like this we can we can track the performance of each

uh a affiliate and uh let me add one thing there are very very few operators that they how to hand they know how to handle this Okay. >> Uh we can I can mention because it's a very good partner. We work like this very closely with Royal Partners in Latam and we are one of the best affiliate for them in LA. I I think the first one and for example we use the source ID and in case so we open the campaign that they have.

They have a lot of brands. We open the campaign to all the affiliates and if there is any fraud and instant traffic, he sent me just a report of the affiliate ID and we we go there and we reject the the affiliate and that's it. Like this. It's a win-win because it help them to get volume. They pay only qualified traffic. They pay only natural traffic, let's say.

And we clean a little bit the database of affiliates as well. >> So this is this is perfect, you know. >> But to do this, you have to be focused. You have to be on time. You have to analyze every day, you know, and I know a lot of affiliate manager, they do this. So that's another topic is fraud. Like how how prevailent is this? Like how many fraudulent affiliates are trying to get inside your network like all the time?

Like is this like a once a day, multiple times a day, a couple times a month? Like how bad is it? Um to be honest I think they communicate between each other and it's it's it's like a wave because we have we have one one fraster let's say that the he succeed in total fraud and and then he it he come up with a lot of fraudsters when when they their volume is big uh we we we reject them and then we stop to having them

and then after two three months we we have other other waves as well of of frosters And uh but thanks to to this to this work we are doing with this um with this operator because mostly we work in LA we are having less less cases of trout. Okay because like Okay. I hope it's not me, but I have no idea. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What? Sorry.

What? Sorry. >> No worries. It was very I don't know uh what I wanted to say ah yeah so crowd it's it's normal in our industry but like uh uh usually there are waves uh so so they they they come in in groups let's say and then they they when we reject them uh then they they leave but it this is based on operator feedback if the operator gives us a feedback we they help us to prevent fraud I mean okay And what does the fraud

look like? Are we talking like uh trying to just gain really good CPA deals where they're just trying to get like the the threshold, the minimums like for qualified FTDs or is it more than that? >> No, usually it's the typical fraud it's multi- account that it's for example in Brazil regulated uh the regulated operators you cannot do multi account because there is face ID. So it's very difficult to do maka but with not regulated operator that they don't have face ID in place it's very

easy to do and usually uh they do they develop also a system of game play so they come they they do the game the game play in the same r uh rlet and then they leave or the same slot and then they leave >> so actually it's it's becoming very difficult to to spot the >> the frasters let's Nowadays, Nowadays, Nowadays, >> what's crazy about that is that's actually more on the operator's responsibility and this should be really basic stuff for them to detect and prevent,

right? Um I I actually think it's embarrassing that a lot of them can't do this. And I've been an operator a long time ago um working on, you know, the VIP and the fraud and uh bonus abuse. And yeah, it was easy for me to to detect and I noticed that the person that was previously working like when I took over that job, it's like they were not catching any of this and I found a whole bunch of fraud exactly like you described.

So, it's a it's hilarious that nothing's changed in in 15. >> No, there are operators that they don't they don't give us good feedback. Uh and also like if you for example if you have 100 FTD and you have 20 FTD of fraud that that you need to to check let's say to to monitor uh if you if you will pay those 20 FTD of fraud it it will affect our performance right so like this you cannot you cannot measure traffic if you if you pay

fraud and there are also a lot of um a lot of operator that it's it's funny because there are a lot of operators they say ah quality is good can you increase the volume we increase the volume because we know how to increase the volume we put the operator on the first line top of that the list and so on and then they ask they tell us it's fraud I mean if you if you ask me to increase the the deposit then you have to monitor

to check you know >> so we we we learned about this and we we are very careful to increase the the traffic volume like this because it's always difficult for us to >> okay so do Do you think that if an operator is improving their product using tools, let's say like Greco, so Greco does bonus hunting abuse, I mean, if they clean that up, in theory, this should also catch a segment of that fraud.

Um, I'm assuming that tools like this kind of improve the player value, which is going to be beneficial for you, which is going to be again beneficial for the affiliates. So, what do you think about uh tools for operators? Like they should be using stuff like this, I think, to detect fraud and bonus abuse. >> Yeah, for sure. Because many affiliate software they do they do not have a fraud fender in place you know or or if they if they have they don't show this to

operators to affiliate managers u but but it's very it's very important to have because crowd gaming it's very easy to do because you get paid four or five times the the baseline so it's just it's just calling you know you know 10 friends and deposit and and this is already a fraud you know it's it's it's very easy to do proud let's say I don't want to share insights out proud >> but uh but it's very easy so so yeah there are very few operator that

they they they know how to work with this this this >> okay uh this was a insightful collection of uh topics we talked about around affiliate marketing um not just affiliate marketing but affiliate networks so that was really insightful and we'll probably have to do this again I want to thank you for doing this and I want to pass it back to you to ask how can people get a hold of you and just one last shout out to Fmentoto.

>> Thank you so much John for for having me. Uh yeah for an affiliate network focusing on Latam Latin America. We work also in tier one. Uh we are growing tier one and we offer our affiliates a lot of services which includes uh access to Y gaming events, access to sport events, uh a lot of things more uh so yeah that that's that's how we we work and operate to operator we offer our own traffic and external traffic as well.

So, I will uh I will give you the link to put in the description to to join us join us join us >> and we'll include that in the show notes. Aleandro, thank you so much for doing this. doing this. doing this. >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much, John. >> You're listening to Revenue Optimization with Stats Drone, available on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube.