Creating Offers in Affiliate Marketing with Sean Chaudhary

Show: Revenue Optimization with StatsDrone
Episode: Creating Offers in Affiliate Marketing with Sean Chaudhary
Host: John Wright
Guest: Sean Chaudhary
Published: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 11:53:00 +0000
Duration: 38:07

Speaker labels are a two-speaker split from pauses (host vs guest). Timestamps are `[HH:MM:SS]` from the episode audio. Light ASR; names and brands may need a pass.

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[00:00:00] John Wright: I'm noticing is that's been really killing it for us Where and it even will beef up accounts where the clients trying to go shade over the couch, but you're like, hey I'm well thrown PPC for free and you're already spending this much So you could just make you five more clients and ten whatever the number is for them They're like, oh, let's okay Then they'll beef up their SEO retail the fact that we're month-to-month is also somewhat of a guarantee which is like dude If you're if you don't like us like you can cancel us the day before won't we find you? But we I tell people up like I try to turn clients all up front Yes, once I've done that it's like you've under promised so much that when you deliver pretty quickly, it's oh shit do we got

[00:00:35] John Wright: I'm John right and you're listening to affiliate be I the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast Brought to you by stats draw in this podcast with Sean Chaudhary from alchemy leads We just had a pretty informal conversation where I said, hey, let's do the podcast I don't have questions prepared and we're just gonna start talking

[00:01:00] John Wright: Anything obviously it's gonna be with SEO because Sean is an SEO expert consultant and he runs quite a few businesses and

[00:01:10] Sean Chaudhary: the the direction of this chat was interesting because I started asking him about Some things that I'm looking at going how do we incorporate and offer into what we want to do for our company and can this actually apply to affiliates and just from listening to a lot of books on

[00:01:29] John Wright: You know books from like Alex Hermosi on hundred million dollar offers I just figured there's something there and it's funny that Sean maybe disagreed with it But I'm just gonna let you listen to the conversation we had and there's a lot of really interesting sound bites here So it was unscripted no formal questions We just started talking and I started asking questions as we went along. So I hope you like this episode. I

[00:01:55] Sean Chaudhary: Appreciated that you're you come some of the resource just in that row. No one's out there and what come I Yeah, I'm learning so much like I knew I wanted to

[00:02:05] John Wright: Get in the space. Maybe at some point Maybe I might want to become an investor because I didn't know what it looks like But I knew I would learn a lot by being humble and saying, you know what? I don't have this extra million in the bank. I'm basically taking my hat off and go Hey, I want your money that I'm willing to risk my name and reputation where if I mess it all up Then I've really shit the bet if that were to speak But I just figured I watch a lot of companies and people level up where they took on investment and then they just skyrocket I'm like there's a reason why venture capital has really done what it it's done. Does everyone need to do it? Maybe not But I just felt like okay

[00:02:43] John Wright: Let's not use that as an excuse and I'm gonna learn from it and looking back on it It's I don't regret anything like I don't regret actually the only regret I could say is that I wish I tried this years before But maybe it would actually have been bad timing for me I think timing wise this was the right time for me to do it I needed to learn a bunch of mistakes or make a bunch of mistakes before I could Realize what I was getting into and just be ready for it. Yeah. Wow and

[00:03:10] John Wright: Positioning right? Look, it's all those years of effort and learning and getting to that next level where you Stuff just works out. Yeah, but and back to that question though I think that question even interesting question are you more grime culture or

[00:03:25] Sean Chaudhary: structure because I've noticed like a bit of both and

[00:03:29] John Wright: So and there's like a place they're both but that balance finding that balances

[00:03:34] Sean Chaudhary: so everything and so for me like structuring the day has been so important in a way where I allow every day I allow for a little bit of flexibility and it's usually the same things like Like picking on my kid having dinner doing some homework that kind of stuff but it can be like going to the park doing something random and

[00:03:55] John Wright: Just having that little bit of freedom. You have to get away team for some times You can't see the force of the truth. Yeah, and so just that little bit of space I find is as doing help Just to answer that in a different way by doing this podcast I've been I have a great chance to talk to a lot of business owners guys like you a week ago I recorded an SEO that I didn't know too well, but his story is pretty cool. His name is very Kazoni He's got a search intelligence limited and yeah, and his story was literally this he was like three years ago I was one person struggling as an SEO consultant and then I

[00:04:32] John Wright: Then he started sharing his content then people started throwing themselves at him saying I really want your help the new site If I'm gonna take your help, I'm gonna charge you 5,000 pounds on the right I'll take it and then now he like part of the insight that I shared of that podcast clip was that back then he was doing Like 500 pound clients a month and he's now 500 pounds won't even get you a meeting with them. That's that's amazing Then you can't even you can't even pay him 500 pounds just to meet with that like these This time's that valuable and he's now got 70 people for his company So what I tried to take away from hearing about guys like him that have basically said what do you need to do differently?

[00:05:11] John Wright: I asked him a couple questions and he said you need to Sometimes take yourself out of the business and go you can be super busy and do the same thing over again but if you don't take yourself out of the business and start learning the different ways of Optimizing your time or going maybe I can put this in an SOP and hand it off to someone else If he never did any of those things he wouldn't be to 70 plus people and he shared like what he has for Aspirations of how much money he wants to make next year. I'm like, wow, that's crazy. It's just a lot Yeah, yeah. No, I think I know I think I know the realm. It's yeah, he's doing well. It's great to hear I'm happy for for his story

[00:05:49] John Wright: But I also think that stores relatively common in our space which is awesome If you look at some of the fastest-growing companies, I would bet most of them were in our space Just in a digital space Branches off into different things, but I think delegation. That's such a huge point. I'm trying to get better at it I don't think I'm anywhere near where we will be in five years. So just looking back five years Yeah, but but yeah, no delegation is something that's that's super key. I think have you read the book? I think it's fine back your time

[00:06:19] Sean Chaudhary: No, I've read a book on delegation. I forget what it's called. It's not that book I think was not bad, but I'm definitely gonna be writing down this one Yeah, Dan Martel buying back your time and it's pretty interesting and also the Elon book also I think is a good story And so what I'm trying to do more simplify and if you look at what Elon does he tries to eliminate everything Any task that he has to do he's trying to eliminate it. That's really what he's trying to do so there's a thousand works of the process he wants to make it one or four as simple as possible and

[00:06:52] John Wright: Yeah, I think there's a Simplicity and delegation systems and also just structure like having people in place just your support So you don't have to do all the nitty-gritty. I think that's what this upcoming year. I think that's the next that's the next phase Yeah, I think it's interesting. We're literally freestyling this podcast and I've been thinking about that this concept all year round going How can I get better and giving myself a self-report card of going? What could I do better and I know delegation is definitely one of those things that I?

[00:07:25] John Wright: Think for me personally by doing this podcast and chatting with like amazing people. It's I'm starting to realize Okay, this person is one of their core elements of success. I actually comes down to this It's when I ask them questions that they're not really answering that but they're giving you the indirect answers as being that's an important part Of it and I think for people that do any sort of masterminds. I think that's when if you actually start sharing Okay, this is what I do for my business And I think if we were to have people come into our business from outsiders the big Why are you doing that? It's I think that's where it's confiding someone to your house And if you've not cleaned it up, but you should have your house clean all the time

[00:08:05] John Wright: Yeah, of course each side of that too. Sometimes you invite people over and they're like wow your house is amazing Why don't you tell me about this earlier? I think that's the other thing that I deal with is a little bit of imposter syndrome And it goes away, right? It's like a feedback loop where and it's really probably based on some I probably need to see a therapist There's no this probably based into some deep we all do. Yeah, and I'm all for that I definitely haven't passed but in terms of

[00:08:31] Sean Chaudhary: This I don't know this whole process of in business There's so many different hats and you have to wear and if you're trying to do everything you're not surrounded by great people You're not gonna probably not gonna succeed and I also have to be a little bit crazy as well To do some of these things. Yeah, it's just I forgot the question to be frank There's not really any questions, but I got something I want to talk about because we're talking about

[00:08:55] John Wright: This is gonna be Can we cook this up at all or no we can do whatever we want We might want to keep it though. I know it is funny it is and it's right by Christmas We're business. Let us be looking nice little holiday. Yeah But in terms of this topic of delegation, I think one thing that's actually difficult It's not just delegating within your own team, but delegating Outsourcing here's the challenging question Which this is what you have to deal with all the time as a business owner that does SEO link building and all that It's how do I know that if I spend money with you that I'm gonna get the ROI that I need that you are gonna

[00:09:31] John Wright: Be that perfect delegation partner because like I'll give you a story where I was working with an affiliate And then I had an SEO person that I knew so I thought I trusted the person I gave him ten thousand dollars and then the guy basically ghosted me that 10k was spent on with PayPal So PayPal has a refund policy on the very last day hit that refund policy I think was four days later PayPal put the money back and then the guy was like, oh, sorry, man I had some chicken in the way. I had this big climb. I'm like, no, you didn't have a big client You're just basically were hoping that you keep the money so I Know from my point of view it's I look bad in front of my friend

[00:10:10] John Wright: He's you brought me into this you almost lost my 10 grand and that I had a friend She literally went through that same person and that money actually disappeared. So

[00:10:21] Sean Chaudhary: Business owners are scared of getting burned and anyone that that get that has the authority to make that spend They are also very paranoid that if this doesn't work out you could actually be costing them their jobs It's like how do people make the right decisions when finding people like you to to hire? Like how should they solve this problem? I think that's such a great question And I think it's like a fundamental question in every process So even if you look at us or like our own company is my company or company We also have some things that are outsourced for instance. I have a great automation and email team

[00:10:57] Sean Chaudhary: That's not necessarily in-house and to find them to be frank. I had to go through three other wrong companies this year Yeah, so like Someone said it gave me a quote and I don't know if it's true or not I actually want to look this up and maybe misinformation so we should look this up but he said something like a right brothers didn't make it on the first time they made it on their teeth time and

[00:11:20] John Wright: So he was I said even so even if you're gonna fly the plane here you want to fly the plane It may not be the right plane be on a flyer. Yeah, there's a job that needs to be done There's upside there. So let's say whether it's SEO or email like in my case of choosing an email apartment that kind of became Really instrumental in our bro. They've become now more than an email partner They're telling us things we didn't even know we should do with onboarding and automation and processes And so they're making us even more scalable because without much more efficient with the same amount of people But they started as an email vendor And so the way that I think the way that you check the dots is really just finding out in some ways

[00:11:58] John Wright: Showing improving right so they were very almost like hey not don't even worry about money Let me just show you that I can we can do this for you So they jumped in who paid a small setup fee But it was really minimal and they basically set up the whole process and like okay Once you get the lead you pay this on closed deals So they had some things in place where was like preview work, of course They had as well case studies where I was like, hey, we have another agency just like you do this So in our case, I think it's the same thing you have to have some sort of you have to know the people are gonna Be around there. It has to be some sort of longevity there So if I'm doing business with someone and their LinkedIn has like a different job every 18 months

[00:12:35] John Wright: I'm gonna be a little bit more sketch the irony is that I'm talking with another company where this one person's background is like You've not had anything consistent for more than three years over over 25 years Yeah, that's a big red flag to me. And so like little things like that So the separators are gonna be like how long is this company been doing this? Because there's so many companies popping up in our space because it's digital What is an experience company and like a four year old company can be an experience company Yeah, I actually just met with a really big company out here in Denver and they're four years old I was like, wow, they seem so much more established out here and

[00:13:13] John Wright: They're four years old there could be a lot of differences in processes and systems But I feel like companies that can put their money with their mouth is whether everyone's doing this guarantee Oh, we'll give you your money back. I think that's like a face. I think that's like teethless is that word I think that there's no substance there and those guarantees Like some of the things are like whether you do it like month or if it's paid for performance That's something we're trying to get into a little bit more which is a I'll made it your spend But if we make you because there's a lot of money that you miss on the upside if you're doing fixed rate retainers So it's okay some of our clients We've made them like seven figures in the first quarter Increase of what they were doing previous or that season and it's like why are we charging 5,000 a month? Well, we could be charging bonds or for that quarter

[00:13:53] John Wright: So little things like that that you have to you have to awesome test Is this is your agency an agency that will take on every client or are they you can tell you not every client's a good account For you, right? You can't take on all business You have good agencies have to know what their system but who works for their system and you can couple of come maybe one Conversation with the company you can figure out pretty quick. Is this just a script or is this do they actually have a repeatable system? Like can they show me the other thing I do all the time? I don't know if it's allowed who cares but I'll show them like hey dude, look at one of our clients Here's literally something that's happening right now and it might be like oh they made a lot more money here

[00:14:33] John Wright: Oh, they have more green arrows going up into the right that kind of thing So they get a chance to see it There's something you mentioned which I try to look at people that have success and go what are like I feel like I'm good at recognizing pattern One thing I think I've noticed with people is that they have consistency So when you're talking about how it has this SEO agency been around for years I think a lot of people when they look at people they see the tip of the iceberg They see what success is now They don't see what you've gone through to get there and I think in terms of hiring an agency I think that's one thing you want to look at going do they have a track record of success and have they been around for?

[00:15:11] John Wright: A long time and I think I think everyone just struggles to stay Patient or to be good at one thing and just answer that and to be frank Well, just to add to that and to piggyback off the story of someone getting one over on you

[00:15:26] Sean Chaudhary: Communication is so key to so in this space a lot of what we do Even when you're betting Facebook ads your Google ads or that's about as tangible as it can get because they can see a dashboard That says for every dollar and get seven dollars or whatever it is So they can see that Oh SEO and even with design and web development It's a little bit different if you're doing the migration, you don't necessarily know what is the upside of the migration and what is the downside? It's a little bit hard to tell and a lot of what we do is not tangible and I think what agencies struggle at and what we're trying to get better with as well is sometimes like Almost like the deliverable will be like a spreadsheet. Okay. Here's your optimization or whatever whether you have a letter

[00:16:04] Sean Chaudhary: We have a minute and it's like the job ends that spreadsheet or that work But there's no thought behind it. Okay. Yeah beyond that spreadsheet What are my other things that you could just do and not even send me a spreadsheet behind the scenes There are things like the dog that you can't really spreadsheet on behind the scenes if you're doing stuff and go so It's it's been commoditized There'll be some some agencies in my to report and some clients have been trained even the big corporate enterprise clients I find this the most where they've been trained on okay, we need a

[00:16:35] John Wright: To And then you mean a weekly updates on this or that on the some sheets and it's dude all that is you're doing not that you're actually Hindering whatever work would have been done And so like different agencies have different focuses and trying to separate yourself from the pack is tough in this space But I feel like they can pick it up pretty quickly if that person who are working Was on top of your campaign you were talking to a long time if you texted him or shot him an email He hits you back in 20 minutes. You're like, oh fuck almost so fast We're like is he even doing anything like that fast and all of our clients and try to do that kind of thing It's so you can tell the difference between American Express or credit one. It's you can feel it

[00:17:15] John Wright: So eventually they feel it but making it tangible is like the thing and sometimes that communication is what makes it tangible and other times What we're trying to get better at is like automating when we send out gifts Like we're sending out actually a lot of gifts for Christmas like actual money back to clients And so we're like hey, we're doing this for Christmas, but could we do this on every couple months for them? Could we automate this every six months? They get a nice little they get an iPad or something That would be pretty cool They even click this whatever so little things like that to make it more tangible and make it feel more like a product You've been loving whole shit when a client signs up. Should you send them and this we're gonna talk about it

[00:17:51] John Wright: She just sent him a box of cool things with a shirt alchemy shirt and maybe some coffee melts and some cool stuff Depending on the type of client maybe even personalize it, you know, so little things like that all just to make it more tangible And once you see that companies are even thinking like that or agencies or partners even thinking like that It tells you a lot because like you said in the beginning of this conversation where we are now compared to five years ago Or two years ago, it's all a building process So to get where you were now you have to probably make a thousand mistakes to figure out this is the way yeah I think it's interesting because you know, no one really gets stuff in the mail anymore or at all

[00:18:29] John Wright: It's like we're all in this email everything environment and we're actually looking at going What are the things we can do for our company to be able to send to people and go? Is it a shirt? Is it a mug? Is it a notepad? It doesn't matter It's still a box in the mail and even if it's a card like anyone sends me a card that's from one business to another I'm ecstatic if that will literally go on my fridge. I'll be that's cool. Same. I have the same things on my phone You know that just a nice hand with milk can go along

[00:18:57] John Wright: Alright, so I'm gonna challenge you on taking a step back where we talked about offers where you said that the money back guarantees are

[00:19:05] Sean Chaudhary: So I just finished a whole bunch of books on what's the word from April Dunford on

[00:19:12] Sean Chaudhary: Not pitching not presentation. I'm losing the word, but then I followed up with Alex for most

[00:19:19] John Wright: Yeah prospecting then Alex for Mosey I forget his like 100 million dollar leads and hundred million dollar offers Yeah So I read that and I actually believe that he's had a lot of success Because I think if there's actually a real maybe science behind it because that click funnels apparently built a lot of their business on This wall like offer at a guarantee and if you think about all these

[00:19:43] John Wright: Cheesy infomercials, it's all the same recipe and I'm just wondering if there's actually something to it because I'm looking at this going Is this something we could actually include in our company like we're a sass company. We don't really do

[00:19:57] Sean Chaudhary: Consulting but it's possible we could do that and I started looking at a couple of sass companies that that did That have a sass service but then do an upsell and I'm just thinking there there could be something to an offer I just feels like people have this Ability to go like you said with that with getting an iPad people will do things for anything So I'm just wondering if you still think is there a time and place for an offer whether you're an affiliate a sass company SEO agency Definitely. Yeah, I'm definitely so I'm not knocking the science being the offer because obviously there's so much

[00:20:32] Sean Chaudhary: Psychology behind it really like everyone yanks a deal basic, right and Hormozi, of course is the legendary top 0.5 percent top 1% marketer, of course he can pull it all but what I've seen I deleted social media recently in the past six months and

[00:20:49] John Wright: Just for different reasons where I used to see all the time was a bunch of different ads with basically the same BSL and the same Script it's like there's a call out. Here's a hey accountants We promise we can get you like this Literally a three sentence thing like we promise we can get you this in this much time or your money back I'll get to the middle three you can just plug and play put different things in there and So that kind of so we're talking about everything getting commoditized That kind of gets commoditized in my eyes because people can see pretty quickly What's BS or BS meters are getting really good. I think we're also

[00:21:21] John Wright: Overloaded with this guru shit like you and just hit yeah Oh, I'm a hermose point of course people deserve to be there. They're up at the top for reasons I'm not necessarily talking about him, but I'm talking about there's a thousand

[00:21:34] John Wright: Agency owners out there millions and they're all doing you to they're all probably really good marketers So like they're all out there So to me like what separate she was being unique and standing out and standing on something as Druski would say standing on business Yeah, and basically, you know, so like a good offer an example would be so sometimes that our email sequences And it will send prospecting emails will say something like hey look book a call We'll talk about it, but if it's not worth your time, we'll give you two links for free Lots you give them two links for free and what ends up happening is one They feel more comfortable booking the call and to almost never do they actually follow up on Caleb. Give me the two free links

[00:22:13] John Wright: They almost never do and when they do it's okay cool to add it in with two fingers. Not a big deal So little things like that to make it a little bit more tan or I've seen I think I've seen people Say hey If I'll buy you a coffee if it doesn't work like little things like that may go a longer way than other money-back Guarantee because just like you when you said that guy and scam you he could have said money-back guarantee it would have been right You know, I mean everyone had only got guarantee if they just charge back on fraudster, you know I mean, so it's just I don't know if it there's a movie about it. Everything can be a guarantee I forget so the classic sales movie. I think with it's a classic sales movie guarantee

[00:22:49] John Wright: There's all skit about the guarantee everything can be a fucking guarantee. I can guarantee you'll feel good right now Yeah, I guarantee you you look like a men's warehouse. I guarantee you look good in the suit Well, what if I won't look in the suit?

[00:23:03] Sean Chaudhary: But it's so compelling and I think you know my way of validating why I think these guarantees and offers do work is Think about how many people we know that have been scammed like cryptocurrency scam. Here's my reality So we're startup. We we did a one-way around the story like this. Oh, yeah I've got lots of them. So we're start of fundraising rounds Everyone I think I even hit you up at one point and So one of my friends I hit up I sent him an email no reply and then months later he's hey, bro

[00:23:35] John Wright: He's like I sent this money out to cryptocurrency like was for mining. I'm like, okay without even knowing what the deal was he got scam, but basically someone hit him up on Instagram and then Basically said if you pay money then we'll mine Cryptopurrency for you so he paid money and then they came back to him like a month later and said Oh, we've made you 10 grand on your two grand investment, but you have to pay 1800 fee for us to send you the money I'm like Jesus. I'm like not only did you get scammed? You're very tempted to double down on it Oh, okay. So I struggle with a legit real offer and

[00:24:12] Sean Chaudhary: With helped in that case, so John do you think you got deep backed it up? Yes, it definitely would have You know what the irony is I didn't use any guarantees in my pitch. I didn't want to I know if I actually had to redo it all over again one could I offer some sort of guarantee without being fraudulent? I think there's a way I could have pitched it but at the same time I also felt that scammy to be here's an investment opportunity You can't lose and I know if I actually was I really wanted to be a scammer I'd probably have I would have taken a lot more money I probably actually would have got more money from the friends and family versus the actual pro investors the pro investors would be like

[00:24:51] Sean Chaudhary: It's clearly a scam. Yeah friends and family would be like, oh, this is a great offer Guaranteed guarantee exactly for me to like I so I don't know So we've been definitely been trained on the guarantee for sure But I just feel like it's teethless where like when you're good, you know, you can say I have to be said customer satisfaction guarantee Okay, cool. You could just say that it there's nothing we really do back So guarantee for me is just a word that's like I just see it so much almost desensitized to a guarantee and almost like you said If someone promises me a guarantee on something, I won't sell the other thing where it's a red flag

[00:25:23] John Wright: Tiptoe is a tough example that we think about some of these coins and it's all you stake and you make 400% every month And so some of these guarantees you have someone in SEO says a guarantee you you'll rank you're not supposed to say that That's not you're not serious But so there are workarounds you could say I guarantee you the keywords would work on a portion of that You will rank for you can guarantee some fine print around it. But I just don't love the guarantee I would much rather have someone say hey, I waste your time. I'll fucking I'll get you Airbnb gift card for two hundred bucks It's like, oh, okay. All right. I had a gun that actually respond to old email today, man What a G. I wish I could show my screen business

[00:26:01] John Wright: Cells of water machines and basically responsible. Hey, Sean, let me know your real buy a water machine Then we'll plot of this email. I'll look out for your order and we can talk and I'm like, oh dude So he's like he gets probably a thousand spam emails a day. So he's like cut through the bullshit or over $20 product Talk to me people just want to see someone who's real and I've done that before too where it's you have a $50 product You buy the product you talk to them about the product and that's like you're in I just feel like people want an actual Person a human being and this guarantee. It's like it just fits like

[00:26:32] Sean Chaudhary: A formula that a lot of people are doing you know what I mean? It doesn't stand out in that place I'm gonna probably test this out a little bit where I interviewed Oliver Kenyon from conversion wise

[00:26:43] John Wright: Dude, I'm gonna be wrong. But for me, I'll have my contrarian I'm curious that if he redoes our sass page if it's actually I'm gonna say it's be cool if we could do some sort of guarantee But I'm gonna leave it to them I'm gonna leave it to them because I trust that they've been doing this for a long time of going How do we build the best landing pages? So if they say hey, this is definitely what you don't want to do

[00:27:06] Sean Chaudhary: I'll trust it. Yeah, but I see a hundred percent cutting their satisfaction guarantee on there

[00:27:12] John Wright: No, but it's all good you're good you're probably right I don't I'm not saying that all that all this is your down-to-sign It's just my personal almost like intuition feeling of the world almost like perception. So that's really all it is

[00:27:24] John Wright: You mentioned about how you had this cold email that resonated with the guys getting like a thousand and I think cold messaging is I think it's a tough thing to break in the last couple years We've been blasted with like marketing automation. It's basically email automation software where you could just blast cold messages and I think i'm starting to believe those days are almost over where you look at someone like bb who's bb the link builder and She's basically advocating that let's just be as real as possible. So how do you incorporate that into your

[00:27:55] John Wright: Hello, then bb is dope and she personalizes everything and what I can say about full emails I actually don't think it's ever gonna die We act so we may be late to the party. We had cold email back in like 2017 2018 when that quick question was like new

[00:28:10] Sean Chaudhary: And we phased out we get a lot of inbound on the gym or SEO. We ranked like CBD marketing local SEO

[00:28:17] John Wright: some other cool ones, but Basically the email marketing piece we that's essentially what we got established this year I think I referred to them earlier when I brought in agency and what it's done for us it's made

[00:28:30] Sean Chaudhary: Revenue growth so predictable. It's really just a numbers game So even if you may think that nobody responds that may be true But if you can get 1 of the numbers that you're sending out on

[00:28:41] Sean Chaudhary: And this is not for link building. This is for sales, right for new tools So if you're sending out, I don't want to do math at all

[00:28:49] John Wright: But if you're sending out 50,000 emails 1 50 to 500 leads a month So little things like that and they're all different levels of warm, right? So the best thing that you can do is in that sequence add as much personalization as possible And even in your list we segment but we have a bunch of different campaigns shout out to instantly instantly. I think

[00:29:09] Sean Chaudhary: They're so good, dude, I I love like they're so we have so many mailboxes going through sending out so many I don't want to burn myself out but instantly AI is good And basically you take as much time as you can to personalize what you're saying to the audience you're targeting So we have some campaigns targeting dtc brands of a certain size So we've even in our data that we're hitting it's already been segmented by what are they doing in revenue? What do they have a shock fire store? Are they long ads? So the people that we're hitting are pretty relevant To the message and then we'll have another campaign that's just b2b focus and those are similar things where it's okay What type of are they on wordpress? What type of store they are?

[00:29:49] Sean Chaudhary: And then are they also running ads and that's a big indicator for us that we can tell that they're running. Let's say 5000 a month in ads it's an easy Sell for us to be like, hey, you're already doing this shit Let us make you more money and then get him back to the guarantee because this seems to be a central theme now that i'm like

[00:30:07] John Wright: I'm guaranteed you're gonna look you look good. John. I guarantee it But getting back to the guarantee, right? What something for us that's somewhat of a guarantee and especially tying into the ad piece of it

[00:30:19] John Wright: Is SEO is that long-term game?

[00:30:22] John Wright: Right. So a lot of times And what we're doing now, I would say with three out of every four new clients that we bring on are running ads And so we're like hey, we're gonna do the SEO you pay us with the SEO, but we'll run your ads for free

[00:30:34] John Wright: And that's in a way in some ways It's like a guarantee because what normally ends up happening is whatever they were spending was all over the place and it was inefficient So as soon as we come in there clean it up within like the first month, they're like, holy shit It's so much better. They can feel it again getting it back to being tangible. They're like, oh shit the phones are in the shop by Notifications are going on and and so then the SEO trust is already built And so things like that are a guarantee and then long-term what happens Whenever you build trust is like eventually they'll spend more and more on ads where it's like what you you're doing for free They're like, okay. No now let's put that on the retainer. But you know

[00:31:10] John Wright: Um, so you just get stickier and deeper

[00:31:14] Sean Chaudhary: You know with clients with accounts. So what you're saying is your

[00:31:19] John Wright: Scheme is basically an hidden guarantee, which is a great offer Yes, which which is what you were trashing earlier. Oh, gosh. What I trash again, you're saying like guarantees are fake. Here's the thing Okay You're not you didn't guarantee anything but yeah indirectly almost made a guarantee without even trying

[00:31:39] John Wright: Like you did it in an authentic way

[00:31:42] Sean Chaudhary: Yeah, I I don't even think it's that and that innovative I feel like companies do it and what i'm noticing is that's been really killing it for us Where and it even will beef up accounts where the client's trying to negotiate over the account But you're like, hey, we'll throw a ppc for free and you're already spending this much So you could just make you five more clients and ten whatever the number is for them They're like, oh let's okay Then they'll beef up their seo retainer because they know they're getting a deal So it is you want to give someone a deal? And then so there are other ways I think as well that we can I think the month to month the fact that we're month to month is also somewhat of a guarantee which is like dude if you're fucking If you don't like us like you can cancel us the day before

[00:32:19] Sean Chaudhary: Well, we find you but we I tell people up like I try to turn clients all up front

[00:32:24] John Wright: Yes, once i've done that it's like you've under promised so much that when you deliver pretty quickly. It's oh shit You're the guy And you're the one who's also not desperate. It's Exactly. Yeah, which is the the irony of being in our situation It's as we get closer to finishing our funding round. We're just like no we're good Or we tell people no, they're like, what do you mean? No, and by the way, I eventually I think it's a sign of good things to come I did want to invest I think you gave me a couple days and I told you I just got to a point Where we're getting there and you're like, hey Boom, and I think the round closed like that week. We did it closer. It's close. Yeah, it's it's officially done It's just now paperwork part fun

[00:33:03] John Wright: Yeah, delegation by the way. Yeah, we got to spend time on things we like so hopefully you're not doing the paperwork part

[00:33:10] John Wright: No, it's i'm definitely not touching that we obviously got a lawyer for that But yeah, it's the other things that I need to start delegating So i'm gonna probably have to listen re-listen to this episode doing a drive with the christmas holidays coming up I think there's a lot of again. I feel guilty i'm gazing all this stuff I'm like i'm applying this to our company So I hope someone out there could apply this to their business and I think there's something there where What you're saying is like adding like these special add-ons. Hey, we'll throw this in for free

[00:33:41] Sean Chaudhary: Yeah, you're giving someone would be like

[00:33:44] John Wright: They they'd feel silly saying no And I think it goes back to alex from mosey's book where it's make it an offer that they feel stupid saying no to And I think you're doing that where you're saying it's not original You're not the first one who's ever done it but I don't think enough people do it and i'm looking at how we do it Ourselves and i'm wondering if there is something that can be done or analyzed that gets applied to affiliates

[00:34:08] John Wright: I believe there's something there From the background of doing casino bonuses as this is basically a giant offer page And it goes to that saying do you look at some of the biggest affiliates from a marketing segment? It's almost like 20 of affiliates seem to be like coupon codes offers. You look at top cash back. What are they? It's top cash back. It's what 300 people in the company now or something like that It's like even if you look at kata and racket It's a whole sort of industry to run some of these things And yeah, and then when you get into casino stuff like your cost per acquisition is so

[00:34:41] John Wright: Typically, you know a little bit higher and you're running ads if you're an affiliate you're running ads you're doing probably your own seo you know, um I think so. I think this is highly relevant to to anyone even if you're running ads you're doing anything It's all about tangibility Like you got to actually Even if you're doing things behind the scenes The only thing that makes it feel real is when the phone starts ringing and when the borders start showing up and when you start Seeing activity on your dashboard. Oh green arrow That's like all the spreadsheet work all the changing adding schema or doing whatever you're doing to the page content Represses internal linking all that stuff really doesn't matter until

[00:35:17] Sean Chaudhary: They see oh, hey these guys are actually good where this is actually working So that's the that's like the light bulb normally we're all trying to get through as oh shit I like these guys. So i'm gonna summarize this episode as one We've got offers But the first one is to really delegate two is find a way to get an offer in there Doesn't matter if you're an affiliate site or seo agency and three sean How can people get a hold of you? We know you do great work and I think people would probably benefit from your seo expertise

[00:35:46] Sean Chaudhary: Yeah, they could just go to our website alchemy leagues They could fill out a form or they could just call us. We have a number there and and yeah where we're growing We're taking on new clients, but we are a little bit picky. So i'm not even really tripping I am going to be starting up a little bit of a youtube channel Say and that's going to be cool and that may be a shit show actually Because i'm just going to be myself as much and that can be dicey

[00:36:09] Sean Chaudhary: So that's probably the next thing to look out for so yeah, it'll be entertaining. I guarantee it

[00:36:15] John Wright: We'll see It might give you trouble. I just you never know people. Okay. The other thing I think we could have a whole another show about is just

[00:36:24] John Wright: Being yourself. I think there's something to be authentic yourself and even if you're a little bit polarizing Really what it's doing is i'm separating the oil from the water the people that aren't going to be with you are not going to be with You and people that are going to be with you are going to resonate even more

[00:36:36] John Wright: And anyone I talked to uh, kyle roof said that his uh inbound has just gone through the roof by being on podcasts Uh last week when I had fairy kazone on from search intelligence He said soon as he started putting himself on videos going. I don't know what this is going to lead to But he basically had clients throwing themselves at them So I think I think you're only going to create more problems and needing to delegate more because you're going to get more business I believe people want to buy from people and when I did my post Summarizing a fairy's insight. I basically have been reflecting on who would I buy from today? And the answer is it's a mixture of things people who put themselves out there

[00:37:14] John Wright: Give away a lot of free content and i've had the opportunity to have a one-on-one with them I can tell very quickly if they know their stuff because they just start telling you things If I do a call from a fractional cmo like andy cole again the guys Yeah, he's trying to sell me the services, but he's also giving me free insights I'm like I feel guilty. I'm like he just gave me half hour of his time giving me good insights But if I don't buy from him, I know he's good. I will recommend him and i've done that

[00:37:40] Sean Chaudhary: Yeah, I think it's it's beyond the transactional part of it It's just like do you are you useful people? Do you give value to people? Same deal? Yeah

[00:37:49] John Wright: Thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for small favor to leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast That helps us expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more listeners