Leadership in iGaming with Richard Dennys of Game Lounge

if you think about the the new if you think about the the new generation including you guys the new

generation including you guys the new generation including you guys the new generation of of

generation of of generation of of intelligence products of softwares that

intelligence products of softwares that intelligence products of softwares that we seen through I'm working with people

we seen through I'm working with people we seen through I'm working with people will looking with working with on this

will looking with working with on this will looking with working with on this they've all they've all they've all got machine learning embedded as table

got machine learning embedded as table got machine learning embedded as table Stak is no longer differentiate it's

Stak is no longer differentiate it's Stak is no longer differentiate it's just expected now and even in your phone

just expected now and even in your phone just expected now and even in your phone everything in here is just enough ml to

everything in here is just enough ml to everything in here is just enough ml to be cruel but not enough to be scary and

be cruel but not enough to be scary and be cruel but not enough to be scary and I I just think that's the way that we go

I I just think that's the way that we go I I just think that's the way that we go e you can be as

e you can be as e you can be as fast I just think there's such a massive

fast I just think there's such a massive fast I just think there's such a massive opportunity to be a lot smarter in i g

opportunity to be a lot smarter in i g opportunity to be a lot smarter in i g re affiliation and everybody is right

re affiliation and everybody is right re affiliation and everybody is right now I think that's massive

now I think that's massive now I think that's massive opportunity and change I believe in I

opportunity and change I believe in I opportunity and change I believe in I love change I'm a change freak and

love change I'm a change freak and love change I'm a change freak and wherever you get changed there's always

wherever you get changed there's always wherever you get changed there's always I think it's very

I think it's very I think it's very exciting I'm John R and you're listening

exciting I'm John R and you're listening exciting I'm John R and you're listening to affiliate bi the business

to affiliate bi the business to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by St welcome to the Philip bi podcast

St welcome to the Philip bi podcast St welcome to the Philip bi podcast today we're chatting with Richard Dennis

today we're chatting with Richard Dennis today we're chatting with Richard Dennis who is the CEO of game lounge and he was

who is the CEO of game lounge and he was who is the CEO of game lounge and he was previously CEO at web gains he's got 20

previously CEO at web gains he's got 20 previously CEO at web gains he's got 20 years of digital and affiliate marketing

years of digital and affiliate marketing years of digital and affiliate marketing experience covering commercial roles to

experience covering commercial roles to experience covering commercial roles to SEO I think we're gonna be talking a lot

SEO I think we're gonna be talking a lot SEO I think we're gonna be talking a lot about affiliate marketing Richard

about affiliate marketing Richard about affiliate marketing Richard welcome to the show thanks very much

welcome to the show thanks very much welcome to the show thanks very much great to be here so from the the time

great to be here so from the the time great to be here so from the the time I've had a chance to get to know you I

I've had a chance to get to know you I I've had a chance to get to know you I think you're a great leader and I want

think you're a great leader and I want think you're a great leader and I want to know like just for myself personally

to know like just for myself personally to know like just for myself personally is this a natural skill something that

is this a natural skill something that is this a natural skill something that you've had to work on over time and

you've had to work on over time and you've had to work on over time and something that you are always working on

something that you are always working on something that you are always working on to add to your to add to your to add to your leadership that's that's very kindly you

leadership that's that's very kindly you leadership that's that's very kindly you to say it doesn't feel like that

to say it doesn't feel like that to say it doesn't feel like that sometimes from my point of view but I I sometimes from my point of view but I I sometimes from my point of view but I I appreciate I think I've you said 20

appreciate I think I've you said 20 appreciate I think I've you said 20 years that I've actually been working years that I've actually been working years that I've actually been working probably B than that L double that I've

probably B than that L double that I've probably B than that L double that I've done a lot of things I've worked in a l done a lot of things I've worked in a l done a lot of things I've worked in a l of more places I've studied a lot of

of more places I've studied a lot of of more places I've studied a lot of stuff I've I've worked with so many stuff I've I've worked with so many stuff I've I've worked with so many different people I've had very high

different people I've had very high different people I've had very high highs and very low lows

highs and very low lows highs and very low lows there's very few things know in the there's very few things know in the there's very few things know in the world that frighten me from a business world that frighten me from a business world that frighten me from a business point of view I've been through some point of view I've been through some point of view I've been through some pretty STI situations and I've also had

pretty STI situations and I've also had pretty STI situations and I've also had a lot of different Ro so I can empathize

a lot of different Ro so I can empathize a lot of different Ro so I can empathize very well with the people around me I

very well with the people around me I very well with the people around me I know how annoying it is to have to

know how annoying it is to have to know how annoying it is to have to report to somebody like me and I'm

report to somebody like me and I'm report to somebody like me and I'm pretty driven but I at the same time I

pretty driven but I at the same time I pretty driven but I at the same time I do work very hard on my empathy and

do work very hard on my empathy and do work very hard on my empathy and empathy [ __ ] and I do switch between the

empathy [ __ ] and I do switch between the empathy [ __ ] and I do switch between the kind of hero leader and a servant leader

kind of hero leader and a servant leader kind of hero leader and a servant leader I have to iate it now but there was a

I have to iate it now but there was a I have to iate it now but there was a time where I was just like look I've

time where I was just like look I've time where I was just like look I've could to be the front of the business could to be the front of the business could to be the front of the business I've got to be driving everything I've I've got to be driving everything I've I've got to be driving everything I've got to take every got to take every got to take every decision and you just can't do that

decision and you just can't do that decision and you just can't do that that's just impossible when you're that's just impossible when you're that's just impossible when you're running a company with 100 or 200 or 300

running a company with 100 or 200 or 300 running a company with 100 or 200 or 300 people you just have to hire the most

people you just have to hire the most people you just have to hire the most the best people you can trust them try

the best people you can trust them try the best people you can trust them try and align them with your what Your and align them with your what Your and align them with your what Your overall kind of Christians

overall kind of Christians overall kind of Christians are and TI it to to humans TI it to the

are and TI it to to humans TI it to the are and TI it to to humans TI it to the fact that we're all equ other we've all fact that we're all equ other we've all fact that we're all equ other we've all watch challenges We R other people at

watch challenges We R other people at watch challenges We R other people at home around us and we're trying to fight

home around us and we're trying to fight home around us and we're trying to fight the same fight and then guess it short

the same fight and then guess it short the same fight and then guess it short shoulder rather than lean with a big shoulder rather than lean with a big shoulder rather than lean with a big stick and big not mic phone and leg of

stick and big not mic phone and leg of stick and big not mic phone and leg of phone I'm not that kind of person some

phone I'm not that kind of person some phone I'm not that kind of person some people when they start working with me people when they start working with me people when they start working with me what do I do next and I'm know what do

what do I do next and I'm know what do what do I do next and I'm know what do you next I don't really hire people to

you next I don't really hire people to you next I don't really hire people to tell them what to tell them what to tell them what to do I hire them to show me what I can do

do I hire them to show me what I can do do I hire them to show me what I can do and and actually one of the things I

and and actually one of the things I and and actually one of the things I tend to do is I create vacuums so I'll

tend to do is I create vacuums so I'll tend to do is I create vacuums so I'll create a load of things that need to be

create a load of things that need to be create a load of things that need to be sided in a vacuum and then we'll see who

sided in a vacuum and then we'll see who sided in a vacuum and then we'll see who jumps into that vacuum and that's

jumps into that vacuum and that's jumps into that vacuum and that's usually a very good indicator of usually a very good indicator of usually a very good indicator of something that's be got leadership

something that's be got leadership something that's be got leadership Tendencies because if on the manager of

Tendencies because if on the manager of Tendencies because if on the manager of 200 other managers it's just impossible

200 other managers it's just impossible 200 other managers it's just impossible and I think if if I had to Ste it down

and I think if if I had to Ste it down and I think if if I had to Ste it down that's probably what it is yeah who

that's probably what it is yeah who that's probably what it is yeah who knows about knows about knows about CR what does that even mean but people

CR what does that even mean but people CR what does that even mean but people tend to like it like work at C follow me

tend to like it like work at C follow me tend to like it like work at C follow me from place to place and vice versa so

from place to place and vice versa so from place to place and vice versa so that's pretty much it in the yeah I that's pretty much it in the yeah I that's pretty much it in the yeah I hav't really work on it but I just just

hav't really work on it but I just just hav't really work on it but I just just to come maturity and

to come maturity and to come maturity and part and and making some terrible

part and and making some terrible part and and making some terrible decisions and trying to make them less

decisions and trying to make them less decisions and trying to make them less and less expensive as time goes all yeah

and less expensive as time goes all yeah and less expensive as time goes all yeah I think that's something we can all I think that's something we can all I think that's something we can all aspire to and uh I'm sure like the the

aspire to and uh I'm sure like the the aspire to and uh I'm sure like the the other concept on the opposite side of

other concept on the opposite side of other concept on the opposite side of micromanaging is things that people

micromanaging is things that people micromanaging is things that people dread and it's just interesting to talk

dread and it's just interesting to talk dread and it's just interesting to talk to people in Goku what is your to people in Goku what is your to people in Goku what is your experience working at different experience working at different experience working at different companies and hearing the extreme ranges

companies and hearing the extreme ranges companies and hearing the extreme ranges of of work situations from you know I

of of work situations from you know I of of work situations from you know I can't wait to leave this company to this

can't wait to leave this company to this can't wait to leave this company to this company is company is company is amazing yeah and people leave people

amazing yeah and people leave people amazing yeah and people leave people that they want to join with to join that they want to join with to join that they want to join with to join people it's always about h beings I've

people it's always about h beings I've people it's always about h beings I've worked for some fantastic bosses I've

worked for some fantastic bosses I've worked for some fantastic bosses I've also worked for some terrible people I

also worked for some terrible people I also worked for some terrible people I mean just terrible hum and you just need

mean just terrible hum and you just need mean just terrible hum and you just need still what you like and what you don't still what you like and what you don't still what you like and what you don't like and the things that works and works

like and the things that works and works like and the things that works and works if I'm just Ro you now in my brain some

if I'm just Ro you now in my brain some if I'm just Ro you now in my brain some of the situations I've seen as me I

of the situations I've seen as me I of the situations I've seen as me I never ever want to be like that with you

never ever want to be like that with you never ever want to be like that with you yeah I think that's you just naturally

yeah I think that's you just naturally yeah I think that's you just naturally fall it isn't it's nurturing nature it's

fall it isn't it's nurturing nature it's fall it isn't it's nurturing nature it's just a foration in and then the other

just a foration in and then the other just a foration in and then the other thing is that I grow a very thick skin thing is that I grow a very thick skin thing is that I grow a very thick skin so I don't really care too much about so I don't really care too much about so I don't really care too much about what people think about me but what I do

what people think about me but what I do what people think about me but what I do care about is results I want to make

care about is results I want to make care about is results I want to make sure that we always going in the right

sure that we always going in the right sure that we always going in the right direction I'm the great believe in

direction I'm the great believe in direction I'm the great believe in growth not at all costs but really I

growth not at all costs but really I growth not at all costs but really I want to go and goow mindset wherever I

want to go and goow mindset wherever I want to go and goow mindset wherever I work because it's relatively easy and

work because it's relatively easy and work because it's relatively easy and even in this industry to sit still and

even in this industry to sit still and even in this industry to sit still and just watch the money cor you but the

just watch the money cor you but the just watch the money cor you but the resp boreum this also doesn't give

resp boreum this also doesn't give resp boreum this also doesn't give anyone a kind of racing Finishing Line

anyone a kind of racing Finishing Line anyone a kind of racing Finishing Line anything to run towards uh we are in

anything to run towards uh we are in anything to run towards uh we are in these kind of infinite businesses which these kind of infinite businesses which these kind of infinite businesses which don't really have a f our day and you

don't really have a f our day and you don't really have a f our day and you need to make the wish driven other

need to make the wish driven other need to make the wish driven other people well well care and that's the

people well well care and that's the people well well care and that's the secret and I guess without me actually

secret and I guess without me actually secret and I guess without me actually going through Linkedin and going okay going through Linkedin and going okay going through Linkedin and going okay what is Game launch have for talent if

what is Game launch have for talent if what is Game launch have for talent if you don't have a head of growth I'm you don't have a head of growth I'm you don't have a head of growth I'm assuming that you take on some of that

assuming that you take on some of that assuming that you take on some of that responsibility and it just sounds like

responsibility and it just sounds like responsibility and it just sounds like maybe some companies don't have some of

maybe some companies don't have some of maybe some companies don't have some of these roles where it's not top of mine

these roles where it's not top of mine these roles where it's not top of mine from a management perspective we don't

from a management perspective we don't from a management perspective we don't have a head of growth but what we have

have a head of growth but what we have have a head of growth but what we have is a gross mindset so that means that is a gross mindset so that means that is a gross mindset so that means that everyone STS what we're doing where

everyone STS what we're doing where everyone STS what we're doing where we're going the annual bonuses a TI to a

we're going the annual bonuses a TI to a we're going the annual bonuses a TI to a particular level of crops or growth we

particular level of crops or growth we particular level of crops or growth we don't talk about it all the time it's don't talk about it all the time it's don't talk about it all the time it's also at not all costs Horizon long

also at not all costs Horizon long also at not all costs Horizon long business which is the VIS we have to B

business which is the VIS we have to B business which is the VIS we have to B that does have uh you know percentage

that does have uh you know percentage that does have uh you know percentage okrs a lot of those okr are castigated

okrs a lot of those okr are castigated okrs a lot of those okr are castigated down from our core which is around

down from our core which is around down from our core which is around delight and and

delight and and delight and and profitability and then we've got another

profitability and then we've got another profitability and then we've got another part of our business which just got part of our business which just got part of our business which just got things like B looker and and so Ben

things like B looker and and so Ben things like B looker and and so Ben properties and there's a number of

properties and there's a number of properties and there's a number of things that have happened to he to our things that have happened to he to our things that have happened to he to our Cas F business Sayo and and we got teams

Cas F business Sayo and and we got teams Cas F business Sayo and and we got teams and people work in there and there much and people work in there and there much and people work in there and there much more around delivery check boxes

more around delivery check boxes more around delivery check boxes Milestones we're not too bothered about

Milestones we're not too bothered about Milestones we're not too bothered about making money right now is much more of

making money right now is much more of making money right now is much more of an incubator and that's a different way

an incubator and that's a different way an incubator and that's a different way and those people are very independent we

and those people are very independent we and those people are very independent we give them everything they want and then

give them everything they want and then give them everything they want and then we just say bring us some money at some

we just say bring us some money at some we just say bring us some money at some point when he gets critical mass but we point when he gets critical mass but we point when he gets critical mass but we all that but I've run lots of businesses all that but I've run lots of businesses all that but I've run lots of businesses like that before too so I know what to like that before too so I know what to like that before too so I know what to look look look for and I want to ask what are the

for and I want to ask what are the for and I want to ask what are the skills and experiences you've taken from

skills and experiences you've taken from skills and experiences you've taken from web games and bringing that into an iig

web games and bringing that into an iig web games and bringing that into an iig gaming company like gameel

yes so it's yes so it's interesting it's

interesting it's interesting it's interesting to move from a

interesting to move from a interesting to move from a network to an affiliate because again

network to an affiliate because again network to an affiliate because again it's we were very careful when I was web

it's we were very careful when I was web it's we were very careful when I was web beings to make sure that we put the

beings to make sure that we put the beings to make sure that we put the affiliate first in the end the networks

affiliate first in the end the networks affiliate first in the end the networks in ecommer and each other have got much in ecommer and each other have got much in ecommer and each other have got much more powerful position they are

more powerful position they are more powerful position they are brokering the deal they are working hard

brokering the deal they are working hard brokering the deal they are working hard for account managers to to optimize

for account managers to to optimize for account managers to to optimize Commings and and overrides and

Commings and and overrides and Commings and and overrides and tendencies they call them rather than tendencies they call them rather than tendencies they call them rather than fix fees and so there's there's a lot of

fix fees and so there's there's a lot of fix fees and so there's there's a lot of mechanics that are involved it's

mechanics that are involved it's mechanics that are involved it's actually very hard business to run it's

actually very hard business to run it's actually very hard business to run it's very hard business to make money from

very hard business to make money from very hard business to make money from you can easily lose lose money is an or

you can easily lose lose money is an or you can easily lose lose money is an or Ro stay still you've always got this you

Ro stay still you've always got this you Ro stay still you've always got this you all know this with statch phone you're all know this with statch phone you're all know this with statch phone you're always about business B around you're

always about business B around you're always about business B around you're about affiliate management and you're about affiliate management and you're about affiliate management and you're about profit optimization because you're

about profit optimization because you're about profit optimization because you're building software effect you're a building software effect you're a building software effect you're a platform business the baling of those

platform business the baling of those platform business the baling of those three p areas is pretty difficult and

three p areas is pretty difficult and three p areas is pretty difficult and sometimes you go hard in the marketing sometimes you go hard in the marketing sometimes you go hard in the marketing sometimes you go hard on the affiliate sometimes you go hard on the affiliate sometimes you go hard on the affiliate um relationships and sometimes you get um relationships and sometimes you get um relationships and sometimes you get hard on the steps of the software hard on the steps of the software hard on the steps of the software develop and that's hard but moving into

develop and that's hard but moving into develop and that's hard but moving into the affiliation space as an affiliate

the affiliation space as an affiliate the affiliation space as an affiliate notely course and moving into IG ging

notely course and moving into IG ging notely course and moving into IG ging where there are a lot more direct

where there are a lot more direct where there are a lot more direct relationships with operators the

relationships with operators the relationships with operators the networks don't seem to platforms when in

networks don't seem to platforms when in networks don't seem to platforms when in fact is re Network there the platforms

fact is re Network there the platforms fact is re Network there the platforms just seem to be pretty denying and

just seem to be pretty denying and just seem to be pretty denying and really had a few conversation with really had a few conversation with really had a few conversation with people where they saying that we just people where they saying that we just people where they saying that we just regard platforms is tracking I just

regard platforms is tracking I just regard platforms is tracking I just think they're missing a trick I think think they're missing a trick I think think they're missing a trick I think everyone's missing a trick anyway so

everyone's missing a trick anyway so everyone's missing a trick anyway so what I bring is is how it can work I

what I bring is is how it can work I what I bring is is how it can work I know the best practice I know when these know the best practice I know when these know the best practice I know when these things work in hary with a very good

things work in hary with a very good things work in hary with a very good client or operator a very efficient and

client or operator a very efficient and client or operator a very efficient and smart platform and then a really

smart platform and then a really smart platform and then a really aggressive motivated affiliate you know

aggressive motivated affiliate you know aggressive motivated affiliate you know that I know what that looks like and I that I know what that looks like and I that I know what that looks like and I know how that can work and I haven't

know how that can work and I haven't know how that can work and I haven't seen it at all in this industry one one

seen it at all in this industry one one seen it at all in this industry one one in in any area so I think there's

in in any area so I think there's in in any area so I think there's probably a couple of director we got

probably a couple of director we got probably a couple of director we got here with some of the big operators but

here with some of the big operators but here with some of the big operators but it's still that trust which you just

it's still that trust which you just it's still that trust which you just don't have in eCommerce you just don't

don't have in eCommerce you just don't don't have in eCommerce you just don't have that because the transparency that have that because the transparency that have that because the transparency that you can see if someone's trying to trick

you can see if someone's trying to trick you can see if someone's trying to trick you or shave you or anything else

you or shave you or anything else you or shave you or anything else whereas in industry it's just the whereas in industry it's just the whereas in industry it's just the opacity has just been shocking I don't

opacity has just been shocking I don't opacity has just been shocking I don't know what we're going to do to change it know what we're going to do to change it know what we're going to do to change it but we can only start talking about it

but we can only start talking about it but we can only start talking about it we this start change yeah do you think

we this start change yeah do you think we this start change yeah do you think it has more to do with the fact that my

it has more to do with the fact that my it has more to do with the fact that my take is I actually see less affiliate

take is I actually see less affiliate take is I actually see less affiliate networks in I gaming and more an

networks in I gaming and more an networks in I gaming and more an affiliate marketing space like F

affiliate marketing space like F affiliate marketing space like F marketing they're just they seem to be marketing they're just they seem to be marketing they're just they seem to be everywhere like the biggest companies

everywhere like the biggest companies everywhere like the biggest companies you can think of a win sharer sales CJ

you can think of a win sharer sales CJ you can think of a win sharer sales CJ ClickBank impact.com like these are

ClickBank impact.com like these are ClickBank impact.com like these are massive they're just they're massive massive they're just they're massive massive they're just they're massive companies right because they work on the companies right because they work on the companies right because they work on the basis that they're going to have one and

basis that they're going to have one and basis that they're going to have one and then up to some of our programs we have

then up to some of our programs we have then up to some of our programs we have 9,000 Affiliates attached them and you

9,000 Affiliates attached them and you 9,000 Affiliates attached them and you can't do that any you need a network

can't do that any you need a network can't do that any you need a network strip platform to manage that for you

strip platform to manage that for you strip platform to manage that for you and and also to optimize it for you and

and and also to optimize it for you and and and also to optimize it for you and you do need the C manager in there not

you do need the C manager in there not you do need the C manager in there not just to Tim ulize campaigns but just

just to Tim ulize campaigns but just just to Tim ulize campaigns but just make sure people get played on time and

make sure people get played on time and make sure people get played on time and make sure the relationship with your all make sure the relationship with your all make sure the relationship with your all St policy stakeholders the smooth

St policy stakeholders the smooth St policy stakeholders the smooth whereas whereas whereas here we have to collect data from I mean

here we have to collect data from I mean here we have to collect data from I mean a lot of places whether there the na in

a lot of places whether there the na in a lot of places whether there the na in house operator platforms or where the

house operator platforms or where the house operator platforms or where the commercial ones you will know who they

commercial ones you will know who they commercial ones you will know who they are and just to do that I've got a team

are and just to do that I've got a team are and just to do that I've got a team of people building software that's

of people building software that's of people building software that's basically either scraping or API and

basically either scraping or API and basically either scraping or API and whatting into these systems there's no

whatting into these systems there's no whatting into these systems there's no common standard it's a real kind of it's

common standard it's a real kind of it's common standard it's a real kind of it's almost come just to thr one and we got

almost come just to thr one and we got almost come just to thr one and we got people knocking on our door saying to us

people knocking on our door saying to us people knocking on our door saying to us please can we use your tool because

please can we use your tool because please can we use your tool because otherwise I got six s people literally

otherwise I got six s people literally otherwise I got six s people literally up and uploading and downloading XO

up and uploading and downloading XO up and uploading and downloading XO briet every month

briet every month briet every month which in an industry just billions and

which in an industry just billions and which in an industry just billions and billions you just saying what whatever

billions you just saying what whatever billions you just saying what whatever he's going on here you know it's a bit

he's going on here you know it's a bit he's going on here you know it's a bit of wake up corn I can feel myself

of wake up corn I can feel myself of wake up corn I can feel myself everying into kind of believing that the

everying into kind of believing that the everying into kind of believing that the state s but I keep waking myself up and

state s but I keep waking myself up and state s but I keep waking myself up and saying No this there's the better way

saying No this there's the better way saying No this there's the better way and I'm having I've had a few

and I'm having I've had a few and I'm having I've had a few conversations with my peer group CEOs

conversations with my peer group CEOs conversations with my peer group CEOs and obviously more than one operator

and obviously more than one operator and obviously more than one operator uh Lisbon we were talking at one of the

uh Lisbon we were talking at one of the uh Lisbon we were talking at one of the dinners and there was a bunch of theit

dinners and there was a bunch of theit dinners and there was a bunch of theit was saying why where is the trust why do

was saying why where is the trust why do was saying why where is the trust why do we mistrust each other so much and and

we mistrust each other so much and and we mistrust each other so much and and they just said it's just been like that they just said it's just been like that they just said it's just been like that always and it's because in the old days

always and it's because in the old days always and it's because in the old days Affiliates used to make F cash at the

Affiliates used to make F cash at the Affiliates used to make F cash at the expense of the upgrades and now the bit

expense of the upgrades and now the bit expense of the upgrades and now the bit moreti was more

moreti was more moreti was more regul and I'm just saying that guys we

regul and I'm just saying that guys we regul and I'm just saying that guys we if we show you us you show we that

if we show you us you show we that if we show you us you show we that exchange exchange exchange data number one we can make our money

data number one we can make our money data number one we can make our money together and another two we can be much together and another two we can be much together and another two we can be much CH on player safety and always rocy

CH on player safety and always rocy CH on player safety and always rocy regulation is important of course it is

regulation is important of course it is regulation is important of course it is but at the same time we can be better

but at the same time we can be better but at the same time we can be better self-governing if we have more

self-governing if we have more self-governing if we have more information about problem areas that information about problem areas that information about problem areas that people we see that coming back time on

people we see that coming back time on people we see that coming back time on time we see much more than an operator

time we see much more than an operator time we see much more than an operator will see we see much more than any

will see we see much more than any will see we see much more than any regulator can see BU an operator we see

regulator can see BU an operator we see regulator can see BU an operator we see the we see the H H point of G like ours

the we see the H H point of G like ours the we see the H H point of G like ours where we see every Market we see every

where we see every Market we see every where we see every Market we see every searched person coming through and not

searched person coming through and not searched person coming through and not clicking and now we have a huge amount clicking and now we have a huge amount clicking and now we have a huge amount of data that nobody's asking us about

they just assume that you would never they just assume that you would never hear it and I actually I've talked to a

hear it and I actually I've talked to a hear it and I actually I've talked to a few bigger Affiliates and I was actually

few bigger Affiliates and I was actually few bigger Affiliates and I was actually surprised to hear any affiliate say

surprised to hear any affiliate say surprised to hear any affiliate say something like this like they' actually something like this like they' actually something like this like they' actually consider sharing it and going it's about

consider sharing it and going it's about consider sharing it and going it's about time we we're sitting on valuable data

time we we're sitting on valuable data time we we're sitting on valuable data but they're like what do we do with it but they're like what do we do with it but they're like what do we do with it and I think people are just scared like

and I think people are just scared like and I think people are just scared like why share it when someone's just going why share it when someone's just going why share it when someone's just going to hypothetically use that of game stuff

to hypothetically use that of game stuff to hypothetically use that of game stuff but I think that's the oldest arue in

but I think that's the oldest arue in but I think that's the oldest arue in comp arue in the world which just we

comp arue in the world which just we comp arue in the world which just we want up p on all of the Little P not

want up p on all of the Little P not want up p on all of the Little P not precisely P even to the point where I

precisely P even to the point where I precisely P even to the point where I shared some very high level conversion

shared some very high level conversion shared some very high level conversion data of a peer group with somebody and

data of a peer group with somebody and data of a peer group with somebody and they were completely shocked they they

they were completely shocked they they they were completely shocked they they thought they were riding high in the thought they were riding high in the thought they were riding high in the best in the industry and they really best in the industry and they really best in the industry and they really were and it work them up to realize that

were and it work them up to realize that were and it work them up to realize that they had a lot of work to do and like as

they had a lot of work to do and like as they had a lot of work to do and like as a result of that I hear there's all

a result of that I hear there's all a result of that I hear there's all sorts of things around and they're sorts of things around and they're sorts of things around and they're changing changing this side the other

changing changing this side the other changing changing this side the other but that was just from one piece of but that was just from one piece of but that was just from one piece of information I sent them so I'm not information I sent them so I'm not information I sent them so I'm not saying that I have to over everything

saying that I have to over everything saying that I have to over everything but or we do or anybody else in our big

but or we do or anybody else in our big but or we do or anybody else in our big bu could that data is available that

bu could that data is available that bu could that data is available that data is available to see whether not

data is available to see whether not data is available to see whether not anyone is actually register and then

anyone is actually register and then anyone is actually register and then they they're spending money for you and they they're spending money for you and they they're spending money for you and then it's the average deposit value and

then it's the average deposit value and then it's the average deposit value and everything else it would make sense to

everything else it would make sense to everything else it would make sense to have something who would say that for

have something who would say that for have something who would say that for the industry benchmarking point of view

the industry benchmarking point of view the industry benchmarking point of view these this is what good looks like this these this is what good looks like this these this is what good looks like this is what great could be as opposed to Reg

is what great could be as opposed to Reg is what great could be as opposed to Reg on just running around Ming numbers

on just running around Ming numbers on just running around Ming numbers which I don't know if they do or not but which I don't know if they do or not but which I don't know if they do or not but proteans do it yeah I think actually in

proteans do it yeah I think actually in proteans do it yeah I think actually in a personal chat CH with you you a personal chat CH with you you a personal chat CH with you you mentioned this idea about how do we

mentioned this idea about how do we mentioned this idea about how do we bring the Affiliates and operators

bring the Affiliates and operators bring the Affiliates and operators together to do more sharing and the

together to do more sharing and the together to do more sharing and the podcast we're about to publish this week

podcast we're about to publish this week podcast we're about to publish this week is from uh Julia drit from cpv one cpv

is from uh Julia drit from cpv one cpv is from uh Julia drit from cpv one cpv lab and she said the same thing and we

lab and she said the same thing and we lab and she said the same thing and we actually have this weird parallels in

actually have this weird parallels in actually have this weird parallels in the SAS industry everyone's sharing

the SAS industry everyone's sharing the SAS industry everyone's sharing everything it's building and public and

everything it's building and public and everything it's building and public and affiliate marketing it just gets super

affiliate marketing it just gets super affiliate marketing it just gets super closed people just get uptight about

closed people just get uptight about closed people just get uptight about sharing and yeah I came from before we I

sharing and yeah I came from before we I sharing and yeah I came from before we I worked at textit which has then came

worked at textit which has then came worked at textit which has then came technation and it was incubation for the

technation and it was incubation for the technation and it was incubation for the UK government they're investing in

UK government they're investing in UK government they're investing in accelerating incubation Services UK

accelerating incubation Services UK accelerating incubation Services UK start outs mainly in London anyway

start outs mainly in London anyway start outs mainly in London anyway National and it was so liberating to

National and it was so liberating to National and it was so liberating to work with people like the open data work with people like the open data work with people like the open data industry people like what three words industry people like what three words industry people like what three words people like people whose business model people like people whose business model people like people whose business model was to open their data and transport

was to open their data and transport was to open their data and transport from London was a project of the time

from London was a project of the time from London was a project of the time where they were just saying look we can

where they were just saying look we can where they were just saying look we can see everybody moving around London we're

see everybody moving around London we're see everybody moving around London we're going to we're going to endpoint that so

going to we're going to endpoint that so going to we're going to endpoint that so everyone anyone can get it you have to

everyone anyone can get it you have to everyone anyone can get it you have to pay for it we make our money anyway and

pay for it we make our money anyway and pay for it we make our money anyway and then of course you spor this whole sort

then of course you spor this whole sort then of course you spor this whole sort of ecosystem of Weare businesses

of ecosystem of Weare businesses of ecosystem of Weare businesses including people like Cy mappa and

including people like Cy mappa and including people like Cy mappa and everything else that are building them everything else that are building them everything else that are building them their business model on on that data but

their business model on on that data but their business model on on that data but it just meant everything became faster

it just meant everything became faster it just meant everything became faster and London became much more of a an

and London became much more of a an and London became much more of a an agile city as a result of that my point

agile city as a result of that my point agile city as a result of that my point is you're right in SAS that's like buing

is you're right in SAS that's like buing is you're right in SAS that's like buing public is normal and then in Lisbon we

public is normal and then in Lisbon we public is normal and then in Lisbon we have Tim V Lee just coming on the stage

have Tim V Lee just coming on the stage have Tim V Lee just coming on the stage of reminding or art in the room open

of reminding or art in the room open of reminding or art in the room open data was the way for it that was always data was the way for it that was always data was the way for it that was always the way the internet was supposed to be

the way the internet was supposed to be the way the internet was supposed to be set up it was to be to share common

set up it was to be to share common set up it was to be to share common human knowledge and yeah what happened

human knowledge and yeah what happened human knowledge and yeah what happened is real came and made money and shut put

is real came and made money and shut put is real came and made money and shut put the shutters out and and it is all zero

the shutters out and and it is all zero the shutters out and and it is all zero some so this is the problem is at the

some so this is the problem is at the some so this is the problem is at the end of the day we're all against go we

end of the day we're all against go we end of the day we're all against go we are an SEO affiliate and we have to go

are an SEO affiliate and we have to go are an SEO affiliate and we have to go stand up and say my name is Richard Al

stand up and say my name is Richard Al stand up and say my name is Richard Al I'm an fre B because everyone's talking

I'm an fre B because everyone's talking I'm an fre B because everyone's talking all the time about getting away from it

all the time about getting away from it all the time about getting away from it Google I don't know if you can I think

Google I don't know if you can I think Google I don't know if you can I think there is obviously some secondary or

there is obviously some secondary or there is obviously some secondary or tertiary where doing it but we're just

tertiary where doing it but we're just tertiary where doing it but we're just in that game we're in that game and we

in that game we're in that game and we in that game we're in that game and we just have to bed that's a game that we

just have to bed that's a game that we just have to bed that's a game that we can all share in a win and whatever but

can all share in a win and whatever but can all share in a win and whatever but it isn't zero s so again my point would

it isn't zero s so again my point would it isn't zero s so again my point would be being better and more open on what

be being better and more open on what be being better and more open on what we're doing and the reasons why

we're doing and the reasons why we're doing and the reasons why Affiliates are here they're not just Affiliates are here they're not just Affiliates are here they're not just here to steal traffic from an operator

here to steal traffic from an operator here to steal traffic from an operator and beat the the Google game we're here

and beat the the Google game we're here and beat the the Google game we're here to offer a hall of Market choice on the

to offer a hall of Market choice on the to offer a hall of Market choice on the best ways for our players to play and as

best ways for our players to play and as best ways for our players to play and as safe as way for our players to play

safe as way for our players to play safe as way for our players to play because you will not get they say their

because you will not get they say their because you will not get they say their their um independent and objective but

their um independent and objective but their um independent and objective but of course any operator is not going to

of course any operator is not going to of course any operator is not going to be independent and objective they have be independent and objective they have be independent and objective they have their their their own but we have a view of allers who

own but we have a view of allers who own but we have a view of allers who talk the all all sign so therefore the

talk the all all sign so therefore the talk the all all sign so therefore the affiliate is a price comparison or

affiliate is a price comparison or affiliate is a price comparison or experience comparison or a ranking list

experience comparison or a ranking list experience comparison or a ranking list in directory whatever we say that's what

in directory whatever we say that's what in directory whatever we say that's what we are and therefore people sees that we are and therefore people sees that we are and therefore people sees that we're more useful and that's why they'll

we're more useful and that's why they'll we're more useful and that's why they'll promote you cars in their humanistics

promote you cars in their humanistics promote you cars in their humanistics and do you think the sub affiliation or

and do you think the sub affiliation or and do you think the sub affiliation or filing networks is going to play a more

filing networks is going to play a more filing networks is going to play a more prominent role in I gaming as well as be

prominent role in I gaming as well as be prominent role in I gaming as well as be one of the many mechanisms that will

one of the many mechanisms that will one of the many mechanisms that will bring Affiliates and operators together

bring Affiliates and operators together bring Affiliates and operators together in a data sharing

in a data sharing in a data sharing way yes I do however I think I know that

way yes I do however I think I know that way yes I do however I think I know that everybody else in my sector in in this

everybody else in my sector in in this everybody else in my sector in in this space is looking at that now including

space is looking at that now including space is looking at that now including ourselves we're very lucky that we have

ourselves we're very lucky that we have ourselves we're very lucky that we have internal systems that allow us to pretty

internal systems that allow us to pretty internal systems that allow us to pretty much switch on from tomorrow but the

much switch on from tomorrow but the much switch on from tomorrow but the thing to remember is that we're still thing to remember is that we're still thing to remember is that we're still going to be dealing with traffic going to be dealing with traffic going to be dealing with traffic generators and most of those shff generators and most of those shff generators and most of those shff generator doing three the the hour PPC

generator doing three the the hour PPC generator doing three the the hour PPC so they're doing it through pay free

so they're doing it through pay free so they're doing it through pay free search and 10

search and 10 search and 10 it's an accelerator but it's not a

it's an accelerator but it's not a it's an accelerator but it's not a replacement foral ests it's just pretty

replacement foral ests it's just pretty replacement foral ests it's just pretty much the same place things may move on

much the same place things may move on much the same place things may move on obviously we've got streamers and videos

obviously we've got streamers and videos obviously we've got streamers and videos and we've men before about the value of

and we've men before about the value of and we've men before about the value of op video and AV for the new generation

op video and AV for the new generation op video and AV for the new generation of players but no s affiliation will be

of players but no s affiliation will be of players but no s affiliation will be good but you know it's another traffic

good but you know it's another traffic good but you know it's another traffic channel it's just it's a it's a s

channel it's just it's a it's a s channel it's just it's a it's a s affiliation Network which we've seen in

affiliation Network which we've seen in affiliation Network which we've seen in e-commerce for a long time you've got e-commerce for a long time you've got e-commerce for a long time you've got skinks and got all the others people

skinks and got all the others people skinks and got all the others people like that but well established and

like that but well established and like that but well established and they've got their own Guardians and they've got their own Guardians and they've got their own Guardians and they've got their own kycs did been us

they've got their own kycs did been us they've got their own kycs did been us for a long long time so yeah it's the

for a long long time so yeah it's the for a long long time so yeah it's the way it goes it's like anything just B way it goes it's like anything just B way it goes it's like anything just B like the sweeps at the moment in the like the sweeps at the moment in the like the sweeps at the moment in the industry it's oh yeah there's a FAL sexy

industry it's oh yeah there's a FAL sexy industry it's oh yeah there's a FAL sexy thing over there that's all running that

thing over there that's all running that thing over there that's all running that direction and like you learn in comic

direction and like you learn in comic direction and like you learn in comic Theory we got some super profits in the

Theory we got some super profits in the Theory we got some super profits in the early stage and then so it balances out

early stage and then so it balances out early stage and then so it balances out as all the entrance move in and start

as all the entrance move in and start as all the entrance move in and start take a bit of that lied Advantage yeah

take a bit of that lied Advantage yeah take a bit of that lied Advantage yeah it's not going be the future for all of

it's not going be the future for all of it's not going be the future for all of us it can be a nice secondary channel

us it can be a nice secondary channel us it can be a nice secondary channel for for for most off do you think there's a

most off do you think there's a most off do you think there's a potential new business model in the sub

potential new business model in the sub potential new business model in the sub affiliation space in regards to this

affiliation space in regards to this affiliation space in regards to this concept like when you think about what concept like when you think about what concept like when you think about what an affiliate network is it's almost like

an affiliate network is it's almost like an affiliate network is it's almost like the network has virtual equity in the

the network has virtual equity in the the network has virtual equity in the affiliate it's like the more money they

affiliate it's like the more money they affiliate it's like the more money they make the more money the network would

make the more money the network would make the more money the network would make so you envision a future where

make so you envision a future where make so you envision a future where networks could say wait a minute we're networks could say wait a minute we're networks could say wait a minute we're actually incentivized to help you or

actually incentivized to help you or actually incentivized to help you or coach you with SEO or coach you with

coach you with SEO or coach you with coach you with SEO or coach you with aspects of your business do you think

aspects of your business do you think aspects of your business do you think this is going to be a new type of Philly

this is going to be a new type of Philly this is going to be a new type of Philly Network or ones that say Hey this is

Network or ones that say Hey this is Network or ones that say Hey this is actually a smart division that we want

actually a smart division that we want actually a smart division that we want to build inside of it that I've never

to build inside of it that I've never to build inside of it that I've never seen seen seen before maybe if I think about to work it

before maybe if I think about to work it before maybe if I think about to work it wasn't necessarily how you describe it

wasn't necessarily how you describe it wasn't necessarily how you describe it it was more own campaign management it's

it was more own campaign management it's it was more own campaign management it's about optimizations it's about proel

about optimizations it's about proel about optimizations it's about proel class it was also about the affiliate class it was also about the affiliate class it was also about the affiliate type so within affiliate marketing the C

type so within affiliate marketing the C type so within affiliate marketing the C you've you've you've got IND types of Affiliates you've got

got IND types of Affiliates you've got got IND types of Affiliates you've got content like most of us but then you've

content like most of us but then you've content like most of us but then you've got technical Affiliates so there drop

got technical Affiliates so there drop got technical Affiliates so there drop downs and then the B now PES in the

downs and then the B now PES in the downs and then the B now PES in the baskets and then there's the cross

baskets and then there's the cross baskets and then there's the cross selling and up selling there's an selling and up selling there's an selling and up selling there's an endless number of different types of

endless number of different types of endless number of different types of Affiliates in e-commerce you've got PPC

Affiliates in e-commerce you've got PPC Affiliates in e-commerce you've got PPC some social media Affairs there's just

some social media Affairs there's just some social media Affairs there's just so many types and that just doesn't

so many types and that just doesn't so many types and that just doesn't exist here that just doesn't seem to be

exist here that just doesn't seem to be exist here that just doesn't seem to be a thing because we're not selling a thing because we're not selling a thing because we're not selling products there's nothing you can go and products there's nothing you can go and products there's nothing you can go and buy in a store and wait for delivery buy in a store and wait for delivery buy in a store and wait for delivery from this is instant virtual services so

from this is instant virtual services so from this is instant virtual services so it's quite it's quite it's quite difficult um it's quite to to come and

difficult um it's quite to to come and difficult um it's quite to to come and play you might get you move you up to

play you might get you move you up to play you might get you move you up to twed see know you might have dropped out

twed see know you might have dropped out twed see know you might have dropped out saying wait here's an extra

saying wait here's an extra saying wait here's an extra bonness um but that's pretty much it and

bonness um but that's pretty much it and bonness um but that's pretty much it and so there's no fighting to the bottom of so there's no fighting to the bottom of so there's no fighting to the bottom of the F which is what you get in the other the F which is what you get in the other the F which is what you get in the other industry so I'm not sure if there is in

industry so I'm not sure if there is in industry so I'm not sure if there is in ey gaming unless thing is really cheaped

ey gaming unless thing is really cheaped ey gaming unless thing is really cheaped there possibly might be if the model

there possibly might be if the model there possibly might be if the model shifted to be Blended between the two

shifted to be Blended between the two shifted to be Blended between the two first calls so for example you've got

first calls so for example you've got first calls so for example you've got people are playing and they might buy people are playing and they might buy people are playing and they might buy kit you've got headphones on there's a kit you've got headphones on there's a kit you've got headphones on there's a microphone here those kind of things microphone here those kind of things microphone here those kind of things that you could start to resell or

that you could start to resell or that you could start to resell or crossing up sell

crossing up sell crossing up sell and vice versa you could try and do NBCS

and vice versa you could try and do NBCS and vice versa you could try and do NBCS in in R media which you do see now again

in in R media which you do see now again in in R media which you do see now again especially in content sites I kind know

especially in content sites I kind know especially in content sites I kind know if the answer is yes to that and the and

if the answer is yes to that and the and if the answer is yes to that and the and then the margins obviously your margins

then the margins obviously your margins then the margins obviously your margins are up to 50% profitability in on pure

are up to 50% profitability in on pure are up to 50% profitability in on pure content affiliate marketing as an

content affiliate marketing as an content affiliate marketing as an affiliate that's very nice as opposed to

affiliate that's very nice as opposed to affiliate that's very nice as opposed to if you're in the network you're if

if you're in the network you're if if you're in the network you're if you're doing 6% you're doing well it's

you're doing 6% you're doing well it's you're doing 6% you're doing well it's hard yards for the same money and you

hard yards for the same money and you hard yards for the same money and you always have to think about that soof always have to think about that soof always have to think about that soof where is very where is very where is very expensive you can put in so much I keep

expensive you can put in so much I keep expensive you can put in so much I keep saying it here i' say management

saying it here i' say management saying it here i' say management Financial de technical de energy debt

Financial de technical de energy debt Financial de technical de energy debt there's loads of debts you can put in there's loads of debts you can put in there's loads of debts you can put in for sister this is what you spend your for sister this is what you spend your for sister this is what you spend your life on and any role or feature you buil

life on and any role or feature you buil life on and any role or feature you buil or you build it the Vol way or build it

or you build it the Vol way or build it or you build it the Vol way or build it doesn't work computer why there's so

doesn't work computer why there's so doesn't work computer why there's so many risks you can put in there as

many risks you can put in there as many risks you can put in there as opposed to just have to another site in

opposed to just have to another site in opposed to just have to another site in another Market but the Char gets now on

another Market but the Char gets now on another Market but the Char gets now on Google it's I wouldn't say it's

Google it's I wouldn't say it's Google it's I wouldn't say it's particularly obviously there's lots of

particularly obviously there's lots of particularly obviously there's lots of people trying to do it but it's not as

people trying to do it but it's not as people trying to do it but it's not as different SC B software yeah I I'm

different SC B software yeah I I'm different SC B software yeah I I'm personally happy actually leaving that

personally happy actually leaving that personally happy actually leaving that you go and attack Google and get those

you go and attack Google and get those you go and attack Google and get those rankings I'm like very happy to leave

rankings I'm like very happy to leave rankings I'm like very happy to leave that behind and go yeah B Tob less

that behind and go yeah B Tob less that behind and go yeah B Tob less competition yes that's true yeah exactly

competition yes that's true yeah exactly competition yes that's true yeah exactly less barass to entry for exactly the

less barass to entry for exactly the less barass to entry for exactly the reasons I was described it's software

reasons I was described it's software reasons I was described it's software development is really hard really hard

development is really hard really hard development is really hard really hard and then you got to make money out of it

and then you got to make money out of it and then you got to make money out of it based on a needless small term and and

based on a needless small term and and based on a needless small term and and then you've got to trade it and and if

then you've got to trade it and and if then you've got to trade it and and if you break through that rally of death you break through that rally of death you break through that rally of death which so many people don't uh you're in

which so many people don't uh you're in which so many people don't uh you're in to big money but otherwise it's just

to big money but otherwise it's just to big money but otherwise it's just where that never makesense to the world where that never makesense to the world where that never makesense to the world but I I definitely don't include St in

but I I definitely don't include St in but I I definitely don't include St in there because St

there because St there because St R continuing on the sub affiliation

R continuing on the sub affiliation R continuing on the sub affiliation discussion do you think that this must

discussion do you think that this must discussion do you think that this must be an obvious thing that there's cohorts

be an obvious thing that there's cohorts be an obvious thing that there's cohorts of data like you talked about the types

of data like you talked about the types of data like you talked about the types of Affiliates there's like the streamers

of Affiliates there's like the streamers of Affiliates there's like the streamers there's the SEO ones there's people that

there's the SEO ones there's people that there's the SEO ones there's people that have forums I think this cohort of data

have forums I think this cohort of data have forums I think this cohort of data would be very rich and I get the feeling

would be very rich and I get the feeling would be very rich and I get the feeling that networks they technically have it

that networks they technically have it that networks they technically have it but I I just haven't heard of a network

but I I just haven't heard of a network but I I just haven't heard of a network going going going hey do you want the latest Cort of our

hey do you want the latest Cort of our hey do you want the latest Cort of our thousand Affiliates and going this is

thousand Affiliates and going this is thousand Affiliates and going this is the industry that you don't know I just

the industry that you don't know I just the industry that you don't know I just think that this might be an opportunity

think that this might be an opportunity think that this might be an opportunity for networks to be that sort of

for networks to be that sort of for networks to be that sort of gatekeeper that can share it on both

gatekeeper that can share it on both gatekeeper that can share it on both sides because every time I talk to

sides because every time I talk to sides because every time I talk to affiliate managers and owners of casinos

affiliate managers and owners of casinos affiliate managers and owners of casinos I never really hear this discussion

I never really hear this discussion I never really hear this discussion about cohorts analysis and understanding

about cohorts analysis and understanding about cohorts analysis and understanding their true player values and how they

their true player values and how they their true player values and how they actually change not just across

actually change not just across actually change not just across Affiliates but across the traffic within

Affiliates but across the traffic within Affiliates but across the traffic within affiliates yeah it's the key to the

affiliates yeah it's the key to the affiliates yeah it's the key to the kingdom it really is that we we are

kingdom it really is that we we are kingdom it really is that we we are trying to move away from not move away

trying to move away from not move away trying to move away from not move away but we're trying to build on real but we're trying to build on real but we're trying to build on real communia business we publishing company

communia business we publishing company communia business we publishing company and we build

and we build and we build websites with colonized content and and

websites with colonized content and and websites with colonized content and and they rank well on Google but it's

they rank well on Google but it's they rank well on Google but it's running around the Affinity we try to

running around the Affinity we try to running around the Affinity we try to transform into a real time Data Business

transform into a real time Data Business transform into a real time Data Business that's really where we want and we're

that's really where we want and we're that's really where we want and we're far away from that but not as far as I

far away from that but not as far as I far away from that but not as far as I think some others we have a plan for

think some others we have a plan for think some others we have a plan for that and it's just being intelligent that and it's just being intelligent that and it's just being intelligent about the kind of things that our

about the kind of things that our about the kind of things that our partners looking for needing you

partners looking for needing you partners looking for needing you mentioned about you've never seen it in mentioned about you've never seen it in mentioned about you've never seen it in operators I have seen it in operators

operators I have seen it in operators operators I have seen it in operators and some of the operators are really and some of the operators are really and some of the operators are really good at that they really have a very

good at that they really have a very good at that they really have a very good understanding of what data shap

good understanding of what data shap good understanding of what data shap look right on the other hand this

look right on the other hand this look right on the other hand this industry the common currency Northstar

industry the common currency Northstar industry the common currency Northstar seems to be on more accur and first time

seems to be on more accur and first time seems to be on more accur and first time depositors and uh but they're not the

depositors and uh but they're not the depositors and uh but they're not the first time depositors play it's not the

first time depositors play it's not the first time depositors play it's not the first time they deposit any moneyy first time they deposit any moneyy first time they deposit any moneyy playing they're just moving from place playing they're just moving from place playing they're just moving from place to place and they can't obviously The

to place and they can't obviously The to place and they can't obviously The Operators can't see that and this is my

Operators can't see that and this is my Operators can't see that and this is my point about opening up the data we as an

point about opening up the data we as an point about opening up the data we as an affiliate we could work in PR

affiliate we could work in PR affiliate we could work in PR partnership and have a much better

partnership and have a much better partnership and have a much better understanding of that kind of data understanding of that kind of data understanding of that kind of data obviously within guard rails and making

obviously within guard rails and making obviously within guard rails and making sure that there was Chinese ws and sure that there was Chinese ws and sure that there was Chinese ws and nobody could really see each other's nobody could really see each other's nobody could really see each other's stes but that's the kind of thing we're

stes but that's the kind of thing we're stes but that's the kind of thing we're hoping to build into the game offer is

hoping to build into the game offer is hoping to build into the game offer is just having a much much better I'm might

just having a much much better I'm might just having a much much better I'm might you say cohorts because one operat

you say cohorts because one operat you say cohorts because one operat cohall from month one to three could be

cohall from month one to three could be cohall from month one to three could be another operat cohall from year two to

another operat cohall from year two to another operat cohall from year two to five and they're still doing the same

five and they're still doing the same five and they're still doing the same thing and they're still arguably playing thing and they're still arguably playing thing and they're still arguably playing more or less the same games in the same

more or less the same games in the same more or less the same games in the same same Market it start CH from country to

same Market it start CH from country to same Market it start CH from country to Country time do not very of so this is

Country time do not very of so this is Country time do not very of so this is just what I'm saying is that the just what I'm saying is that the just what I'm saying is that the opportunity is really there trying I

opportunity is really there trying I opportunity is really there trying I don't know I don't know if we do on don't know I don't know if we do on don't know I don't know if we do on industry basis but certainly having a

industry basis but certainly having a industry basis but certainly having a lot more of an idea of really what's lot more of an idea of really what's lot more of an idea of really what's going on and that's now that's with the

going on and that's now that's with the going on and that's now that's with the players that we have now in the age players that we have now in the age players that we have now in the age demographics and the the defy and int

demographics and the the defy and int demographics and the the defy and int and then coming on behind as a whole new

and then coming on behind as a whole new and then coming on behind as a whole new C and new types of player which don't

C and new types of player which don't C and new types of player which don't use Google ever they're just working as

use Google ever they're just working as use Google ever they're just working as a kind of almost like a

a kind of almost like a a kind of almost like a cerebral Community where they're you see

cerebral Community where they're you see cerebral Community where they're you see their physical present but we see them

their physical present but we see them their physical present but we see them in the streets everybody else but in the streets everybody else but in the streets everybody else but actually their minds are somewhere actually their minds are somewhere actually their minds are somewhere completely different they're all linked completely different they're all linked completely different they're all linked to each other in this kind of mass ocean

to each other in this kind of mass ocean to each other in this kind of mass ocean so peerto peer social networking

so peerto peer social networking so peerto peer social networking Snapchat or in in all the other

Snapchat or in in all the other Snapchat or in in all the other Instagrams or truck and everything like

Instagrams or truck and everything like Instagrams or truck and everything like that they're just all connected they my

that they're just all connected they my that they're just all connected they my kids they're in their 20 early 20s and

kids they're in their 20 early 20s and kids they're in their 20 early 20s and do you know s s I know what they're

do you know s s I know what they're do you know s s I know what they're doing and but they didn't met them and

doing and but they didn't met them and doing and but they didn't met them and probably if they were met them in the probably if they were met them in the probably if they were met them in the street they' walk past each other but street they' walk past each other but street they' walk past each other but they know their kind of digital they know their kind of digital they know their kind of digital personality and that's totally different

personality and that's totally different personality and that's totally different to the to the kind of poorts and and

to the to the kind of poorts and and to the to the kind of poorts and and people that we're speaking to right now

people that we're speaking to right now people that we're speaking to right now now I'm not trying to say that we have now I'm not trying to say that we have now I'm not trying to say that we have to drag B everybody under 25 into into

to drag B everybody under 25 into into to drag B everybody under 25 into into gambling that's just not what I'm trying gambling that's just not what I'm trying gambling that's just not what I'm trying to say through but in order to to

to say through but in order to to to say through but in order to to attract the people who are there already

attract the people who are there already attract the people who are there already I'm not really big fan of demand I'm not really big fan of demand I'm not really big fan of demand generation in that age group but if

generation in that age group but if generation in that age group but if there's intent already then we want to

there's intent already then we want to there's intent already then we want to direct them to the safest places and and

direct them to the safest places and and direct them to the safest places and and really that's all priority now that can

really that's all priority now that can really that's all priority now that can be streamers that can be videos it can

be streamers that can be videos it can be streamers that can be videos it can be short from videos it can be all sorts

be short from videos it can be all sorts be short from videos it can be all sorts of things but it's very short and very

of things but it's very short and very of things but it's very short and very um digestible and not 600w articles or

um digestible and not 600w articles or um digestible and not 600w articles or the L reviews and things like that words

the L reviews and things like that words the L reviews and things like that words are bad for anyone under 30

are bad for anyone under 30 are bad for anyone under 30 now that is true and I think a lot of

now that is true and I think a lot of now that is true and I think a lot of Affiliates need to hear but I leave that

Affiliates need to hear but I leave that Affiliates need to hear but I leave that to Google and search console and if if

to Google and search console and if if to Google and search console and if if they can figure that out great but

they can figure that out great but they can figure that out great but everyone's saying you can see it you can

everyone's saying you can see it you can everyone's saying you can see it you can see that overall people search and int

see that overall people search and int see that overall people search and int traffic is slowly eroding and that's

traffic is slowly eroding and that's traffic is slowly eroding and that's literally a dying Market people are red

literally a dying Market people are red literally a dying Market people are red long with foot chain and and not being

long with foot chain and and not being long with foot chain and and not being replaced so they're somewhere else I

replaced so they're somewhere else I replaced so they're somewhere else I want to talk about the concept of

want to talk about the concept of want to talk about the concept of product and the roles of products I

product and the roles of products I product and the roles of products I wrote an article on it recently and I've

wrote an article on it recently and I've wrote an article on it recently and I've become a fan of product just from my own

become a fan of product just from my own become a fan of product just from my own experience of going hey wait a minute

experience of going hey wait a minute experience of going hey wait a minute we're actually hiring a product company

we're actually hiring a product company we're actually hiring a product company not a design agency so I believe Game

not a design agency so I believe Game not a design agency so I believe Game launch is actually one of the the launch is actually one of the the launch is actually one of the the companies that has a a very forward

companies that has a a very forward companies that has a a very forward thinking when it comes to that what is

thinking when it comes to that what is thinking when it comes to that what is your take on that role and do you think

your take on that role and do you think your take on that role and do you think it's maybe underserved in other

it's maybe underserved in other it's maybe underserved in other affiliate companies or other Industries

affiliate companies or other Industries affiliate companies or other Industries as as as well yeah this is a conversation we've

well yeah this is a conversation we've well yeah this is a conversation we've had I years and years what is a product

had I years and years what is a product had I years and years what is a product what what does product development what what does product development what what does product development really mean what does big a product L

really mean what does big a product L really mean what does big a product L company entail and what actually are our

company entail and what actually are our company entail and what actually are our products are we physical or tangible

products are we physical or tangible products are we physical or tangible intangible what are we saying we're

intangible what are we saying we're intangible what are we saying we're sending advice we're sending guidance

sending advice we're sending guidance sending advice we're sending guidance weend all sorts of things and from that

weend all sorts of things and from that weend all sorts of things and from that point of view yes I think we're very

point of view yes I think we're very point of view yes I think we're very we're very late we have everything late

we're very late we have everything late we're very late we have everything late we're not really going to a third party

we're not really going to a third party we're not really going to a third party anywhere we' got all of our we've got an

anywhere we' got all of our we've got an anywhere we' got all of our we've got an internal product team we've got an

internal product team we've got an internal product team we've got an external kind of product team you've got

external kind of product team you've got external kind of product team you've got product managers but project managers

product managers but project managers product managers but project managers but for a basic imedia business we've but for a basic imedia business we've but for a basic imedia business we've got a lot of people working in product

got a lot of people working in product got a lot of people working in product and it is really good and there's a lot

and it is really good and there's a lot and it is really good and there's a lot of work around user intent everything

of work around user intent everything of work around user intent everything from looking at search intent and Google

from looking at search intent and Google from looking at search intent and Google search console and all the kind things

search console and all the kind things search console and all the kind things that we you can see through to the

that we you can see through to the that we you can see through to the movement on on on on a page by country

movement on on on on a page by country movement on on on on a page by country by color there's we've got this great

by color there's we've got this great by color there's we've got this great team upstairs and they're a Comm sign

team upstairs and they're a Comm sign team upstairs and they're a Comm sign too and they're really smart they're

too and they're really smart they're too and they're really smart they're really smart bunch of people and they really smart bunch of people and they really smart bunch of people and they know what they're looking for and they know what they're looking for and they know what they're looking for and they know what works and they know what good know what works and they know what good know what works and they know what good looks like and but they also realize

looks like and but they also realize looks like and but they also realize that nothing stays the same so they're

that nothing stays the same so they're that nothing stays the same so they're continuously

continuously continuously iterating and I think that is very

iterating and I think that is very iterating and I think that is very important because if you just drops a

important because if you just drops a important because if you just drops a websites and even if you got good

websites and even if you got good websites and even if you got good content unless you've got that kind of

content unless you've got that kind of content unless you've got that kind of there was a book called m think which is

there was a book called m think which is there was a book called m think which is just about you know give you eye if

just about you know give you eye if just about you know give you eye if you're making people think then the agre

you're making people think then the agre you're making people think then the agre you're making will stop and if they stop

you're making will stop and if they stop you're making will stop and if they stop they'll not do what you want them to do

they'll not do what you want them to do they'll not do what you want them to do so I'm not saying we have to employ

so I'm not saying we have to employ so I'm not saying we have to employ things like dark pants but at the same things like dark pants but at the same things like dark pants but at the same time they're in the middle of something time they're in the middle of something time they're in the middle of something else we shouldn't be stopping them so

else we shouldn't be stopping them so else we shouldn't be stopping them so that whole kind of ethos around cor

that whole kind of ethos around cor that whole kind of ethos around cor being a taking away frictions from a

being a taking away frictions from a being a taking away frictions from a journey is very important from a point

journey is very important from a point journey is very important from a point of view a product to sell to other

of view a product to sell to other of view a product to sell to other people we're not like you guys we we

people we're not like you guys we we people we're not like you guys we we we've said many times we we're using

we've said many times we we're using we've said many times we we're using software to enable us and not because of

software to enable us and not because of software to enable us and not because of us of that makes sense we're not a us of that makes sense we're not a us of that makes sense we're not a software company but we've got some very

software company but we've got some very software company but we've got some very talented designers contenders Engineers

talented designers contenders Engineers talented designers contenders Engineers server people we all the way through the

server people we all the way through the server people we all the way through the stack we we're very well sered con Stu

stack we we're very well sered con Stu stack we we're very well sered con Stu that but not too much and we don't spend

that but not too much and we don't spend that but not too much and we don't spend too much longer but you would say that

too much longer but you would say that too much longer but you would say that product should or usually does lead to a

product should or usually does lead to a product should or usually does lead to a positive result in

positive result in positive result in SEO what leads to B re lo as SEO seems

SEO what leads to B re lo as SEO seems SEO what leads to B re lo as SEO seems to be the second C because that

to be the second C because that to be the second C because that obviously showing Google that it's

obviously showing Google that it's obviously showing Google that it's engaging content and that's really what

engaging content and that's really what engaging content and that's really what we work very hard on so we work hard on

we work very hard on so we work hard on we work very hard on so we work hard on getting in the first placeas and then we getting in the first placeas and then we getting in the first placeas and then we we work very hard on on making them stay

we work very hard on on making them stay we work very hard on on making them stay read poly and then click forward not

read poly and then click forward not read poly and then click forward not just bounce back and that if that's

just bounce back and that if that's just bounce back and that if that's product then that's what we do very well

product then that's what we do very well product then that's what we do very well is product technology should technology

is product technology should technology is product technology should technology air product should product be a

air product should product be a air product should product be a technology that's an age argue we

technology that's an age argue we technology that's an age argue we haven't really we haven't really solved

haven't really we haven't really solved haven't really we haven't really solved but we can't take it in both senses I've

but we can't take it in both senses I've but we can't take it in both senses I've worked in the past with with people worked in the past with with people worked in the past with with people who've been very techical very clever

who've been very techical very clever who've been very techical very clever developers when I was working at Nokia

developers when I was working at Nokia developers when I was working at Nokia and the people the developers at Nokia

and the people the developers at Nokia and the people the developers at Nokia were unbelievable and they were pretty

were unbelievable and they were pretty were unbelievable and they were pretty much product directors each and they

much product directors each and they much product directors each and they work very well together and they work very well together and they work very well together and they understood each other and therefore they understood each other and therefore they understood each other and therefore they were doing both roles but that was an

were doing both roles but that was an were doing both roles but that was an extreme and then you come to smaller

extreme and then you come to smaller extreme and then you come to smaller companies with people that have got companies with people that have got companies with people that have got Junior more Junior people and then there

Junior more Junior people and then there Junior more Junior people and then there swim lanes that they're all in and then swim lanes that they're all in and then swim lanes that they're all in and then they have to match together so you got they have to match together so you got they have to match together so you got Engineers talking to him it's less

Engineers talking to him it's less Engineers talking to him it's less efficient but it's actually quite nice efficient but it's actually quite nice efficient but it's actually quite nice for actual uh but what you do on it do

for actual uh but what you do on it do for actual uh but what you do on it do is have prob people coming up with

is have prob people coming up with is have prob people coming up with Factory as well as Engineers coming up Factory as well as Engineers coming up Factory as well as Engineers coming up Factory and then the whole thing just Factory and then the whole thing just Factory and then the whole thing just slows down and they argue and then slows down and they argue and then slows down and they argue and then nothing you need to one on top to the

nothing you need to one on top to the nothing you need to one on top to the other at some other at some other at some point and you mentioned like video is

point and you mentioned like video is point and you mentioned like video is becoming like an important thing and how

becoming like an important thing and how becoming like an important thing and how would you say that video is not just a

would you say that video is not just a would you say that video is not just a generic strategy for affiliate sites but

generic strategy for affiliate sites but generic strategy for affiliate sites but maybe just throw either ideas or what do

maybe just throw either ideas or what do maybe just throw either ideas or what do you see as the future of video in

you see as the future of video in you see as the future of video in relation to affiliate

relation to affiliate relation to affiliate marketing in the end of day you're a

marketing in the end of day you're a marketing in the end of day you're a representation of your Brands right so

representation of your Brands right so representation of your Brands right so we that's what fre means you're we that's what fre means you're we that's what fre means you're representing either the industry that

representing either the industry that representing either the industry that they're in or them themselves we're in a

they're in or them themselves we're in a they're in or them themselves we're in a world now where back in the day everyone

world now where back in the day everyone world now where back in the day everyone sat around the fire reading books and

sat around the fire reading books and sat around the fire reading books and obviously TV came in and the internet

obviously TV came in and the internet obviously TV came in and the internet came in and house all the other

came in and house all the other came in and house all the other interruptions that we now face people

interruptions that we now face people interruptions that we now face people just don't have time to read long for

just don't have time to read long for just don't have time to read long for anything and my kids they just can't

anything and my kids they just can't anything and my kids they just can't watch and they a 90 minute mov they just

watch and they a 90 minute mov they just watch and they a 90 minute mov they just cannot get through it and I'm not saying cannot get through it and I'm not saying cannot get through it and I'm not saying that I can do anything about it with that I can do anything about it with that I can do anything about it with while R thing they just don't have the

while R thing they just don't have the while R thing they just don't have the attention span there's always sing attention span there's always sing attention span there's always sing beeping or or something in their way it

beeping or or something in their way it beeping or or something in their way it would just stop their mind FL and video

would just stop their mind FL and video would just stop their mind FL and video is nice like that but you will see that is nice like that but you will see that is nice like that but you will see that there's this move towards shortfall and there's this move towards shortfall and there's this move towards shortfall and shortfall video just seems to be what shortfall video just seems to be what shortfall video just seems to be what everyone could video to right now I see

everyone could video to right now I see everyone could video to right now I see in the street just fire just calling

in the street just fire just calling in the street just fire just calling through their phones on buses or in

through their phones on buses or in through their phones on buses or in wherever they are restaurants and that's

wherever they are restaurants and that's wherever they are restaurants and that's pre PR but that's where they are so our

pre PR but that's where they are so our pre PR but that's where they are so our video is all it's all so video is the

video is all it's all so video is the video is all it's all so video is the future and I think there's going to be

future and I think there's going to be future and I think there's going to be the blend between us to before digital

the blend between us to before digital the blend between us to before digital and the virtual and the physical

and the virtual and the physical and the virtual and the physical personalities with people having more

personalities with people having more personalities with people having more than one that me it's pretty common

than one that me it's pretty common than one that me it's pretty common you'll have something off you never have

you'll have something off you never have you'll have something off you never have social profile and there's some massive social profile and there's some massive social profile and there's some massive influence with millions of followers

influence with millions of followers influence with millions of followers it's a new it's a new Paradox so I think

it's a new it's a new Paradox so I think it's a new it's a new Paradox so I think video is massively The Way Forward we've

video is massively The Way Forward we've video is massively The Way Forward we've got a again a very good video team here

got a again a very good video team here got a again a very good video team here and they're doing everything from

and they're doing everything from and they're doing everything from reviews all the way through to how to

reviews all the way through to how to reviews all the way through to how to how to play stuff how to win things what

how to play stuff how to win things what how to play stuff how to win things what strategies might look like in different strategies might look like in different strategies might look like in different languages we've got a na Studio here

languages we've got a na Studio here languages we've got a na Studio here we're putting out I don't know hundreds we're putting out I don't know hundreds we're putting out I don't know hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos a and hundreds and hundreds of videos a and hundreds and hundreds of videos a month our side so there's one side won

month our side so there's one side won month our side so there's one side won so why it is but there is one side so why it is but there is one side so why it is but there is one side that's languished around for a while not

that's languished around for a while not that's languished around for a while not particularly high in the rankings and particularly high in the rankings and particularly high in the rankings and then we' brought we've changed that te

then we' brought we've changed that te then we' brought we've changed that te now they're putting video first so the

now they're putting video first so the now they're putting video first so the first thing they're doing before they're first thing they're doing before they're first thing they're doing before they're write is video either live like this or

write is video either live like this or write is video either live like this or or pre it how to is and what do is and

or pre it how to is and what do is and or pre it how to is and what do is and how it all works and all of a sudden

how it all works and all of a sudden how it all works and all of a sudden that site starting to get really nice

that site starting to get really nice that site starting to get really nice traction and it's not a lot of content

traction and it's not a lot of content traction and it's not a lot of content it's probably 30 to 50 short turn video

it's probably 30 to 50 short turn video it's probably 30 to 50 short turn video short you're making yourselves your on

short you're making yourselves your on short you're making yourselves your on might think videos is quite a lot but

might think videos is quite a lot but might think videos is quite a lot but when we've got a team of people doing when we've got a team of people doing when we've got a team of people doing that they're doing 500 to 700 a month

that they're doing 500 to 700 a month that they're doing 500 to 700 a month it's relatively straightforward

it's relatively straightforward it's relatively straightforward to and is that embedding those videos

to and is that embedding those videos to and is that embedding those videos with YouTube I'm asking for a friend

with YouTube I'm asking for a friend with YouTube I'm asking for a friend called yeah it's all so is this the

called yeah it's all so is this the called yeah it's all so is this the Google world is pretty pretty extensive

Google world is pretty pretty extensive Google world is pretty pretty extensive so you'll look in all parts of C system

so you'll look in all parts of C system so you'll look in all parts of C system to work out with they to think they do

to work out with they to think they do to work out with they to think they do that stuff okay so next I've got a

that stuff okay so next I've got a that stuff okay so next I've got a couple rapid fire questions more of the

couple rapid fire questions more of the couple rapid fire questions more of the short form stuff what does affiliate

short form stuff what does affiliate short form stuff what does affiliate marketing need more of

marketing need more of marketing need more of transparency nice one given your

transparency nice one given your transparency nice one given your knowledge and experience if you had to knowledge and experience if you had to knowledge and experience if you had to start a business today with only 50k as

start a business today with only 50k as start a business today with only 50k as a budget what would that be yeah that

a budget what would that be yeah that a budget what would that be yeah that was a really good question I'd say I'd

was a really good question I'd say I'd was a really good question I'd say I'd say just set up some affiliate size in say just set up some affiliate size in say just set up some affiliate size in the real Niche that hasn't really blown

the real Niche that hasn't really blown the real Niche that hasn't really blown up yet but I probably wouldn't need 50 P

up yet but I probably wouldn't need 50 P up yet but I probably wouldn't need 50 P that yeah probably not I personally

that yeah probably not I personally that yeah probably not I personally would probably just do an SEO agency at

would probably just do an SEO agency at would probably just do an SEO agency at think I'll take people's money and then

think I'll take people's money and then think I'll take people's money and then get going and then build affiliate

get going and then build affiliate get going and then build affiliate sites if Affiliates if Affiliates would

sites if Affiliates if Affiliates would sites if Affiliates if Affiliates would be more successful if they did

be more successful if they did be more successful if they did this I think yeah I I I think it's have

this I think yeah I I I think it's have this I think yeah I I I think it's have a bit more of a long-term view because

a bit more of a long-term view because a bit more of a long-term view because this stuff takes time and if you think this stuff takes time and if you think this stuff takes time and if you think it's just one of those kind of go in

it's just one of those kind of go in it's just one of those kind of go in burn and leave you can the four and

burn and leave you can the four and burn and leave you can the four and gener to some of my P groups some of do

gener to some of my P groups some of do gener to some of my P groups some of do brly well and some of them are doing brly well and some of them are doing brly well and some of them are doing terribly and properly terribly and it's

terribly and properly terribly and it's terribly and properly terribly and it's because they're working qu to quarter because they're working qu to quarter because they're working qu to quarter and they're thinking about things in and they're thinking about things in and they're thinking about things in quite a few might be group are listed or

quite a few might be group are listed or quite a few might be group are listed or you always about your last quarter and you always about your last quarter and you always about your last quarter and you got shareholders and all that stuff you got shareholders and all that stuff you got shareholders and all that stuff to really deal with it's really hard I'm

to really deal with it's really hard I'm to really deal with it's really hard I'm not saying it's not the right to do it's

not saying it's not the right to do it's not saying it's not the right to do it's just difficult and everybody's only ever

just difficult and everybody's only ever just difficult and everybody's only ever you're only as strong as your last you're only as strong as your last you're only as strong as your last quarter or last year on year period I

quarter or last year on year period I quarter or last year on year period I came from that we gra is that world it

came from that we gra is that world it came from that we gra is that world it wasn't too bad because it wasn't wasn't too bad because it wasn't wasn't too bad because it wasn't directly listed I know people like a

directly listed I know people like a directly listed I know people like a they were they found it very difficult

they were they found it very difficult they were they found it very difficult when they were attached to the Abel

when they were attached to the Abel when they were attached to the Abel Springer and now you'll see they come

Springer and now you'll see they come Springer and now you'll see they come away from that and they're flourishing

away from that and they're flourishing away from that and they're flourishing and see what Adam's gting with now that

and see what Adam's gting with now that and see what Adam's gting with now that he's got a bit of space out and time to

he's got a bit of space out and time to he's got a bit of space out and time to be free been quite a well so I'd say

be free been quite a well so I'd say be free been quite a well so I'd say it's Thinking Beyond for Horizon I

it's Thinking Beyond for Horizon I it's Thinking Beyond for Horizon I talking three Rizal here it's H1 H2 H3

talking three Rizal here it's H1 H2 H3 talking three Rizal here it's H1 H2 H3 we've got most of our business if not 60

we've got most of our business if not 60 we've got most of our business if not 60 78% of business in

78% of business in 78% of business in H1 but we've also got a fair proportion

H1 but we've also got a fair proportion H1 but we've also got a fair proportion in age2 which is what's happening next

in age2 which is what's happening next in age2 which is what's happening next where we're going and then the the

where we're going and then the the where we're going and then the the vision startu towards a much more

vision startu towards a much more vision startu towards a much more intelligent SL future on Horizon 3 with

intelligent SL future on Horizon 3 with intelligent SL future on Horizon 3 with AI all convergence there any devices and

AI all convergence there any devices and AI all convergence there any devices and the different in humanity and

the different in humanity and the different in humanity and consumption is the arrival that we set

consumption is the arrival that we set consumption is the arrival that we set to for and that

to for and that to for and that is I spend I don't spend any my time on

is I spend I don't spend any my time on is I spend I don't spend any my time on H1 I have a very good coo and a very

H1 I have a very good coo and a very H1 I have a very good coo and a very good management team that looks at

good management team that looks at good management team that looks at today's business I've got an excellent

today's business I've got an excellent today's business I've got an excellent finance department look at yesterday's

finance department look at yesterday's finance department look at yesterday's business and then I've got some very

business and then I've got some very business and then I've got some very smallart people who are in in being the

smallart people who are in in being the smallart people who are in in being the Su Horizon so I spend all of my time in

Su Horizon so I spend all of my time in Su Horizon so I spend all of my time in that I spend I'm pretty much we

that I spend I'm pretty much we that I spend I'm pretty much we something called GLX internally which is

something called GLX internally which is something called GLX internally which is game LS X and that's really what we buil

game LS X and that's really what we buil game LS X and that's really what we buil next and I spend a lot of my time in

next and I spend a lot of my time in next and I spend a lot of my time in that and we've got a luxury doing that

that and we've got a luxury doing that that and we've got a luxury doing that because we not on the M it's yes we're P

because we not on the M it's yes we're P because we not on the M it's yes we're P back and yes they have their demands and

back and yes they have their demands and back and yes they have their demands and yes they want to make sure that we're yes they want to make sure that we're yes they want to make sure that we're making money and feing as sent of it at

making money and feing as sent of it at making money and feing as sent of it at the same time the fairy hands off and

the same time the fairy hands off and the same time the fairy hands off and are aligned and and they hide me so you

are aligned and and they hide me so you are aligned and and they hide me so you know they're giving me a bit of time to know they're giving me a bit of time to know they're giving me a bit of time to work this stuff out and I've C some cost

work this stuff out and I've C some cost work this stuff out and I've C some cost in some areas we' let some people go in in some areas we' let some people go in in some areas we' let some people go in some other areas left which reorganized

some other areas left which reorganized some other areas left which reorganized some of those Horizon two parts and then

some of those Horizon two parts and then some of those Horizon two parts and then we're ready that would include solation

we're ready that would include solation we're ready that would include solation that includes the stot track includes

that includes the stot track includes that includes the stot track includes some of the ma properties where we can

some of the ma properties where we can some of the ma properties where we can we got a little profit that we can

we got a little profit that we can we got a little profit that we can reinvest and start to build for where it

reinvest and start to build for where it reinvest and start to build for where it becomes next yeah that's an interesting

becomes next yeah that's an interesting becomes next yeah that's an interesting answer for long-term Vision I had the

answer for long-term Vision I had the answer for long-term Vision I had the chance to chat with one of the more

chance to chat with one of the more chance to chat with one of the more successful private uh igaming Affiliates

successful private uh igaming Affiliates successful private uh igaming Affiliates and I said what's behind your success is

and I said what's behind your success is and I said what's behind your success is it SEO is it PPC and the the reply was

it SEO is it PPC and the the reply was it SEO is it PPC and the the reply was instantly it's no one in the industry

instantly it's no one in the industry instantly it's no one in the industry has a long-term vision and I think

has a long-term vision and I think has a long-term vision and I think that's very true and I think the that's very true and I think the that's very true and I think the companies that actually do have a

companies that actually do have a companies that actually do have a long-term Vision you see it in their

long-term Vision you see it in their long-term Vision you see it in their detail like their attention of detail

detail like their attention of detail detail like their attention of detail going okay this might not be

going okay this might not be going okay this might not be removing the needle for tomorrow but it

removing the needle for tomorrow but it removing the needle for tomorrow but it could be in X month's time because it's

could be in X month's time because it's could be in X month's time because it's yeah the thought process is actually

yeah the thought process is actually yeah the thought process is actually very deep yeah I've looked at this and

very deep yeah I've looked at this and very deep yeah I've looked at this and I've looked at this not just in looked

I've looked at this not just in looked I've looked at this not just in looked in this previously whenever you've got in this previously whenever you've got in this previously whenever you've got the F still involved in the company it's

the F still involved in the company it's the F still involved in the company it's either good or bad news sometimes it's either good or bad news sometimes it's either good or bad news sometimes it's very bad news because they're just stuck very bad news because they're just stuck very bad news because they're just stuck in the past in our case we've still

in the past in our case we've still in the past in our case we've still brought the two Founders the buiz are brought the two Founders the buiz are brought the two Founders the buiz are still I wouldn't say they're both mely

still I wouldn't say they're both mely still I wouldn't say they're both mely one one is BU and the other one is is on

one one is BU and the other one is is on one one is BU and the other one is is on on advisory Capac here with me and he's

on advisory Capac here with me and he's on advisory Capac here with me and he's just unbelievably helpful and POS here

just unbelievably helpful and POS here just unbelievably helpful and POS here and I think that helps you think about

and I think that helps you think about and I think that helps you think about what's next because one of them comes to

what's next because one of them comes to what's next because one of them comes to me all the time with what about this

me all the time with what about this me all the time with what about this what about that what about that next and

what about that what about that next and what about that what about that next and it's just so refreshing it's really nice it's just so refreshing it's really nice it's just so refreshing it's really nice this would a nice position to be at

this would a nice position to be at this would a nice position to be at where these guys have seen everything

where these guys have seen everything where these guys have seen everything for the last I don't know 12 15 years

for the last I don't know 12 15 years for the last I don't know 12 15 years they've made plenty of money that they they've made plenty of money that they they've made plenty of money that they either of them can stop tomorrow and

either of them can stop tomorrow and either of them can stop tomorrow and live and never work ever again and yet

live and never work ever again and yet live and never work ever again and yet they choose to because they're still they choose to because they're still they choose to because they're still engaged in the business they believe in engaged in the business they believe in engaged in the business they believe in the people they believe in them or what the people they believe in them or what the people they believe in them or what they believe in me and that's just I

they believe in me and that's just I they believe in me and that's just I just it's just such a privilege to have

just it's just such a privilege to have just it's just such a privilege to have the ABS out where they're behind me I'm

the ABS out where they're behind me I'm the ABS out where they're behind me I'm behind them be working hard for that

behind them be working hard for that behind them be working hard for that Horizon 2 Horizon 3 strategy if only

Horizon 2 Horizon 3 strategy if only Horizon 2 Horizon 3 strategy if only tell in fact when I was looking for jobs

tell in fact when I was looking for jobs tell in fact when I was looking for jobs or when I was talking to different or when I was talking to different or when I was talking to different people the fact that this was not listed

people the fact that this was not listed people the fact that this was not listed and and I do have some Co people who are

and and I do have some Co people who are and and I do have some Co people who are listed the money is much higher ined

listed the money is much higher ined listed the money is much higher ined businesses but that really wasn't the TR

businesses but that really wasn't the TR businesses but that really wasn't the TR the hustle is also mbly higher investor

the hustle is also mbly higher investor the hustle is also mbly higher investor calls and all those kinds of things it's

calls and all those kinds of things it's calls and all those kinds of things it's not really me and you pretty worked out

not really me and you pretty worked out not really me and you pretty worked out and so far I'm not too corporate so it

and so far I'm not too corporate so it and so far I'm not too corporate so it would be pretty tricky if you to

would be pretty tricky if you to would be pretty tricky if you to up yeah I've got a question that's not

up yeah I've got a question that's not up yeah I've got a question that's not scripted so if we don't like the this

scripted so if we don't like the this scripted so if we don't like the this answer we won't include it people will

answer we won't include it people will answer we won't include it people will know if if we take it out people

know if if we take it out people know if if we take it out people wouldn't know I've had this conversation

wouldn't know I've had this conversation wouldn't know I've had this conversation about sub affiliation and affiliate

about sub affiliation and affiliate about sub affiliation and affiliate networks where the concept in I gaming

networks where the concept in I gaming networks where the concept in I gaming would look something like this you have

would look something like this you have would look something like this you have a bigger company that already has really

a bigger company that already has really a bigger company that already has really good deals and that's one of the reasons

good deals and that's one of the reasons good deals and that's one of the reasons while you join a network what happens if

while you join a network what happens if while you join a network what happens if more networks become more prominent

more networks become more prominent more networks become more prominent where the smaller to size Affiliates

where the smaller to size Affiliates where the smaller to size Affiliates they get to become part of those deals

they get to become part of those deals they get to become part of those deals now they get a better deal than what now they get a better deal than what now they get a better deal than what they do on their own the affiliate

they do on their own the affiliate they do on their own the affiliate network is basically going okay we're network is basically going okay we're network is basically going okay we're getting the max deal and operators are

getting the max deal and operators are getting the max deal and operators are now left with hypothetically Less

now left with hypothetically Less now left with hypothetically Less business that involves higher margins

business that involves higher margins business that involves higher margins what would you say to this is this like what would you say to this is this like what would you say to this is this like a a problem a dilemma or a reality or is

a a problem a dilemma or a reality or is a a problem a dilemma or a reality or is there a way where this can still

there a way where this can still there a way where this can still actually benefit operators without being

actually benefit operators without being actually benefit operators without being like Doomsday your best margins are

like Doomsday your best margins are like Doomsday your best margins are gone it depends you take a micro

gone it depends you take a micro gone it depends you take a micro macroeconomic view I'm very I I studied

macroeconomic view I'm very I I studied macroeconomic view I'm very I I studied eics a long time ago and I do understand

eics a long time ago and I do understand eics a long time ago and I do understand the market dyamics you we're living in

the market dyamics you we're living in the market dyamics you we're living in free free economies you can do whatever

free free economies you can do whatever free free economies you can do whatever you want it's not as if we can say oh you want it's not as if we can say oh you want it's not as if we can say oh that can't happen all this can't happen that can't happen all this can't happen that can't happen all this can't happen or whatever operates Zone AR I struggle

or whatever operates Zone AR I struggle or whatever operates Zone AR I struggle you only have to read some of the the

you only have to read some of the the you only have to read some of the the news around the US market or some the

news around the US market or some the news around the US market or some the other Mar that the S of super profits

other Mar that the S of super profits other Mar that the S of super profits that there there's a lot of people in that there there's a lot of people in that there there's a lot of people in the industry lots of people couldn't for

the industry lots of people couldn't for the industry lots of people couldn't for for players and and and people's incomes

for players and and and people's incomes for players and and and people's incomes and deposits and everything So It's

and deposits and everything So It's and deposits and everything So It's Tricky and also operators don't have to

Tricky and also operators don't have to Tricky and also operators don't have to work with particular fre it's it's their

work with particular fre it's it's their work with particular fre it's it's their gift to choose who they work with and I

gift to choose who they work with and I gift to choose who they work with and I just think natural selection world will

just think natural selection world will just think natural selection world will mean that the law of the market will

mean that the law of the market will mean that the law of the market will prevail yes I think there probably will

prevail yes I think there probably will prevail yes I think there probably will be people like trying like that and if be people like trying like that and if be people like trying like that and if they're not think already they will but

they're not think already they will but they're not think already they will but at the same time you've got WhatsApp

at the same time you've got WhatsApp at the same time you've got WhatsApp communities gambling communities are

communities gambling communities are communities gambling communities are operating right now and being paid in operating right now and being paid in operating right now and being paid in crypto everyone's arguing about what

crypto everyone's arguing about what crypto everyone's arguing about what business model was big 20 years ago and

business model was big 20 years ago and business model was big 20 years ago and and yet the new UN regulated gray black

and yet the new UN regulated gray black and yet the new UN regulated gray black ways that players find games to make

ways that players find games to make ways that players find games to make lose money that will never go away as

lose money that will never go away as lose money that will never go away as one one of the things I think we do

one one of the things I think we do one one of the things I think we do badly is is that we underestimate the

badly is is that we underestimate the badly is is that we underestimate the intelligence of a lot of our players we

intelligence of a lot of our players we intelligence of a lot of our players we just think they're playing games and

just think they're playing games and just think they're playing games and they do this and they do that but they do this and they do that but they do this and they do that but actually they're there's some pretty actually they're there's some pretty actually they're there's some pretty smart people out there and they will

smart people out there and they will smart people out there and they will find their way to new ways of doing

find their way to new ways of doing find their way to new ways of doing things all the time just because they're

things all the time just because they're things all the time just because they're new and so what do I think what can I do

new and so what do I think what can I do new and so what do I think what can I do about not much we can try and we can try

about not much we can try and we can try about not much we can try and we can try and guess it but probably not I think

and guess it but probably not I think and guess it but probably not I think we'll just do hours the other thing I we'll just do hours the other thing I we'll just do hours the other thing I believ very strongly is not being a

believ very strongly is not being a believ very strongly is not being a Pioneer I think I've been a Pioneer in

Pioneer I think I've been a Pioneer in Pioneer I think I've been a Pioneer in the past but it's very expensive and the past but it's very expensive and the past but it's very expensive and very risky so I tend to like to be

very risky so I tend to like to be very risky so I tend to like to be second Mo you or Mor the K first mov is

second Mo you or Mor the K first mov is second Mo you or Mor the K first mov is not always an advantage yeah and as you

not always an advantage yeah and as you not always an advantage yeah and as you go further into digitally deep you can

go further into digitally deep you can go further into digitally deep you can see that happening time and time again

see that happening time and time again see that happening time and time again yeah we definitely not the first mover

yeah we definitely not the first mover yeah we definitely not the first mover in in what we do exactly so you can see

in in what we do exactly so you can see in in what we do exactly so you can see what's bad and then just do better it's

what's bad and then just do better it's what's bad and then just do better it's the least [ __ ] version model isn't it

the least [ __ ] version model isn't it the least [ __ ] version model isn't it yeah that's actually part of our story yeah that's actually part of our story yeah that's actually part of our story we used to use an app called staffs

we used to use an app called staffs we used to use an app called staffs remot and I said there's a feedback loop

remot and I said there's a feedback loop remot and I said there's a feedback loop that is really missing here programs

that is really missing here programs that is really missing here programs that are going out of business programs

that are going out of business programs that are going out of business programs that say you got to change your tracking that say you got to change your tracking that say you got to change your tracking links cu the old ones are invalid

links cu the old ones are invalid links cu the old ones are invalid because we got a new software programs

because we got a new software programs because we got a new software programs that aren't paying this is revenue Le

that aren't paying this is revenue Le that aren't paying this is revenue Le that's exactly why I wanted to start

that's exactly why I wanted to start that's exactly why I wanted to start stat Dr yeah the less friction the

stat Dr yeah the less friction the stat Dr yeah the less friction the better obviously there there's friction

better obviously there there's friction better obviously there there's friction is necessary because there's kyc is necessary because there's kyc is necessary because there's kyc friction that's important there's

friction that's important there's friction that's important there's affability friction which is also

affability friction which is also affability friction which is also important uh but at the same time if

important uh but at the same time if important uh but at the same time if you're I say if you're if you're taking you're I say if you're if you're taking you're I say if you're if you're taking three months to put in tracking C into

three months to put in tracking C into three months to put in tracking C into operate

operate operate SM City

SM City SM City death all right so last question is what

death all right so last question is what death all right so last question is what do you see of the future of affiliate do you see of the future of affiliate do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business

marketing as it intersects with business marketing as it intersects with business intelligence I think it's amazing

intelligence I think it's amazing intelligence I think it's amazing exciting I think it will look completely

exciting I think it will look completely exciting I think it will look completely different but I'm not one of these different but I'm not one of these different but I'm not one of these people saying everything be in h cars in

people saying everything be in h cars in people saying everything be in h cars in five years but I just think that the if

five years but I just think that the if five years but I just think that the if you think about the the new generation

you think about the the new generation you think about the the new generation in you guys the new generation of of

in you guys the new generation of of in you guys the new generation of of intelligence products and softwares that

intelligence products and softwares that intelligence products and softwares that we seen through working with people will

we seen through working with people will we seen through working with people will be with working with on this they're all

be with working with on this they're all be with working with on this they're all raw machine learning embeded as T Stak

raw machine learning embeded as T Stak raw machine learning embeded as T Stak is no longer differentiate it's just

is no longer differentiate it's just is no longer differentiate it's just expected now and even in your phone

expected now and even in your phone expected now and even in your phone everything in here is just enough ml to

everything in here is just enough ml to everything in here is just enough ml to be cruel but not enough to be scary and

be cruel but not enough to be scary and be cruel but not enough to be scary and I I just think that's the way that we go

I I just think that's the way that we go I I just think that's the way that we go you can go as fast as most I just think

you can go as fast as most I just think you can go as fast as most I just think there's such a massive opportunity to be

there's such a massive opportunity to be there's such a massive opportunity to be a lot smarter in I gain me affiliation

a lot smarter in I gain me affiliation a lot smarter in I gain me affiliation and everybody is right now I think

and everybody is right now I think and everybody is right now I think that's massive

that's massive that's massive opportunity and change I believe in I

opportunity and change I believe in I opportunity and change I believe in I love change I'm a change freak and

love change I'm a change freak and love change I'm a change freak and wherever you get Chang there always I

wherever you get Chang there always I wherever you get Chang there always I think it's very exciting yeah I think

think it's very exciting yeah I think think it's very exciting yeah I think the change that we probably will see in

the change that we probably will see in the change that we probably will see in I gaming is more sharing of data and

I gaming is more sharing of data and I gaming is more sharing of data and more people creating data sets um we can

more people creating data sets um we can more people creating data sets um we can talk about AI all day long but I think

talk about AI all day long but I think talk about AI all day long but I think one thing that AI needs more of is data

one thing that AI needs more of is data one thing that AI needs more of is data defeated yeah exactly and just the right

defeated yeah exactly and just the right defeated yeah exactly and just the right people to to understand how to use it

people to to understand how to use it people to to understand how to use it because you can you can easily use it to

because you can you can easily use it to because you can you can easily use it to go down a own path but it's just it's

go down a own path but it's just it's go down a own path but it's just it's turning I always say this and people

turning I always say this and people turning I always say this and people don't know find it very boring but

don't know find it very boring but don't know find it very boring but you've got the now data the now today's

you've got the now data the now today's you've got the now data the now today's data and which is basically the what and

data and which is basically the what and data and which is basically the what and then you've got the context of the data

then you've got the context of the data then you've got the context of the data which the so War but this the really the

which the so War but this the really the which the so War but this the really the really hard part is the last bit which really hard part is the last bit which really hard part is the last bit which is the now do we do with this is the now do we do with this is the now do we do with this information and if you can c that then

information and if you can c that then information and if you can c that then you you basically won that's the where

you you basically won that's the where you you basically won that's the where you need to get to that's where we're you need to get to that's where we're you need to get to that's where we're trying to be we try to be the nail

trying to be we try to be the nail trying to be we try to be the nail business in and there's been discussions

business in and there's been discussions business in and there's been discussions in the background of people saying you in the background of people saying you in the background of people saying you know do we need to hire more people know do we need to hire more people know do we need to hire more people within IG gaming or bring more people

within IG gaming or bring more people within IG gaming or bring more people outside coming in with new ideas and I

outside coming in with new ideas and I outside coming in with new ideas and I think you've already answered that think you've already answered that think you've already answered that question with uh um your short time uh

question with uh um your short time uh question with uh um your short time uh with game Lounge to be able to bring

with game Lounge to be able to bring with game Lounge to be able to bring these new ideas into the space so yeah I

these new ideas into the space so yeah I these new ideas into the space so yeah I think that's are easy executions the

think that's are easy executions the think that's are easy executions the hard hard part so that's the bit that we

hard hard part so that's the bit that we hard hard part so that's the bit that we should get right and many companies got should get right and many companies got should get right and many companies got executions and if you didn't get around

executions and if you didn't get around executions and if you didn't get around that then you make good sh awesome

that then you make good sh awesome that then you make good sh awesome Richard uh thank you so much for doing Richard uh thank you so much for doing Richard uh thank you so much for doing this I want to pass it back to how can

this I want to pass it back to how can this I want to pass it back to how can people get a hold of you if you want people get a hold of you if you want people get a hold of you if you want them to get a hold of you Linkin

them to get a hold of you Linkin them to get a hold of you Linkin usual La Linkin request since I started

usual La Linkin request since I started usual La Linkin request since I started I've never know if you like people try

I've never know if you like people try I've never know if you like people try to get hold of you but yeah okay get

to get hold of you but yeah okay get to get hold of you but yeah okay get okay we'll include the game loue link to

okay we'll include the game loue link to okay we'll include the game loue link to the website and more importantly we'll

the website and more importantly we'll the website and more importantly we'll also put your LinkedIn there thanks a

also put your LinkedIn there thanks a also put your LinkedIn there thanks a lot for doing this thanks great thanks

lot for doing this thanks great thanks lot for doing this thanks great thanks very

very very much thank you for tuning in to the

much thank you for tuning in to the much thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to

this time to ask for a small favor to this time to ask for a small favor to leave a raing and review wherever you

leave a raing and review wherever you leave a raing and review wherever you listen to your podcast that helps us

listen to your podcast that helps us listen to your podcast that helps us expand our reach to rank higher in

expand our reach to rank higher in expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more

podcast directories and reach more podcast directories and reach more listeners