What Most Affiliates Get Wrong About SEO — Insights from Gentoo Media's Emilio Takas

First of all, I think all the affiliate First of all, I think all the affiliate companies, they need to understand the

companies, they need to understand the companies, they need to understand the business intelligence first of all

business intelligence first of all business intelligence first of all because I think most of the big

because I think most of the big because I think most of the big companies have BI departments, but I

companies have BI departments, but I companies have BI departments, but I think we're still in a way to understand

think we're still in a way to understand think we're still in a way to understand 100% what we're looking at, right?

100% what we're looking at, right? 100% what we're looking at, right? Because the data gives a lot of answers

Because the data gives a lot of answers Because the data gives a lot of answers on a lot of problems to solve them every

on a lot of problems to solve them every on a lot of problems to solve them every day. But as I said there are a lot of

day. But as I said there are a lot of day. But as I said there are a lot of big companies that they focus on BI but

big companies that they focus on BI but big companies that they focus on BI but it's not something that all the it's not something that all the it's not something that all the companies focusing and I think that

companies focusing and I think that companies focusing and I think that especially BI when it comes to

especially BI when it comes to especially BI when it comes to affiliation and when you want to start

affiliation and when you want to start affiliation and when you want to start let's say as you said with a small

let's say as you said with a small let's say as you said with a small budget of 5K you need and this is not an

budget of 5K you need and this is not an budget of 5K you need and this is not an advertise okay like for the audience I

advertise okay like for the audience I advertise okay like for the audience I know you many years to go come here and

know you many years to go come here and know you many years to go come here and advertise but you need products from

advertise but you need products from advertise but you need products from other companies that they author this

other companies that they author this other companies that they author this solution because in Gen 2 we have a huge

solution because in Gen 2 we have a huge solution because in Gen 2 we have a huge department for BI. If you want to create

department for BI. If you want to create department for BI. If you want to create something and to see then you go into

something and to see then you go into something and to see then you go into the SAS way to find a good product and

the SAS way to find a good product and the SAS way to find a good product and start getting the data that you need to

start getting the data that you need to start getting the data that you need to run your business. So for me BI and

run your business. So for me BI and run your business. So for me BI and affiliation and operation and any other

affiliation and operation and any other affiliation and operation and any other industry I like.

industry I like. industry I like. I'm John Wright and you're listening to

I'm John Wright and you're listening to I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliateBI the business intelligence

affiliateBI the business intelligence affiliateBI the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought

and affiliate marketing podcast brought and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by to you by to you by Stap. Welcome to the AffiliateBI

Stap. Welcome to the AffiliateBI Stap. Welcome to the AffiliateBI podcast. Today we're chatting with podcast. Today we're chatting with podcast. Today we're chatting with Emilio Takas who's the head of SEO at

Emilio Takas who's the head of SEO at Emilio Takas who's the head of SEO at Genu. He's an author and he's a speaker

Genu. He's an author and he's a speaker Genu. He's an author and he's a speaker at many SEO conferences where I saw him

at many SEO conferences where I saw him at many SEO conferences where I saw him on the big stage at Brighton SEO.

on the big stage at Brighton SEO. on the big stage at Brighton SEO. Millio, welcome to the show. Hello.

Millio, welcome to the show. Hello. Millio, welcome to the show. Hello. Hello. First of all, I need to say we

Hello. First of all, I need to say we Hello. First of all, I need to say we were planning that for more than two

were planning that for more than two were planning that for more than two years and thank you so much. Thank you

years and thank you so much. Thank you years and thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. You're doing an

so much for having me. You're doing an so much for having me. You're doing an amazing job with this podcast and also

amazing job with this podcast and also amazing job with this podcast and also to be straight honest with you, you are

to be straight honest with you, you are to be straight honest with you, you are one of the kindest and one of the best

one of the kindest and one of the best one of the kindest and one of the best smiles that we see around in conferences

smiles that we see around in conferences smiles that we see around in conferences whenever we meet. Thank you so much.

whenever we meet. Thank you so much. whenever we meet. Thank you so much. That means a That means a That means a lot. But now, let's let's flip it

lot. But now, let's let's flip it lot. But now, let's let's flip it around. and I'm here to ask the dumb

around. and I'm here to ask the dumb around. and I'm here to ask the dumb questions and the smart questions and

questions and the smart questions and questions and the smart questions and yeah, just pick your brain. Okay,

yeah, just pick your brain. Okay, yeah, just pick your brain. Okay, perfect. I love it and that's why I'm

perfect. I love it and that's why I'm perfect. I love it and that's why I'm here. All right, so we're going to go

here. All right, so we're going to go here. All right, so we're going to go into something that I don't want to say

into something that I don't want to say into something that I don't want to say it's too controversial, but it's just

it's too controversial, but it's just it's too controversial, but it's just want to go deep. So last week I was

want to go deep. So last week I was want to go deep. So last week I was chatting with an i gaming exec at an

chatting with an i gaming exec at an chatting with an i gaming exec at an affiliate company and I won't mention

affiliate company and I won't mention affiliate company and I won't mention that person's name or the company but he

that person's name or the company but he that person's name or the company but he said he thinks the affiliate segment is

said he thinks the affiliate segment is said he thinks the affiliate segment is shrinking due to SEO and a lot of the

shrinking due to SEO and a lot of the shrinking due to SEO and a lot of the public companies they're kind of public companies they're kind of public companies they're kind of acknowledging it in their quarterly acknowledging it in their quarterly acknowledging it in their quarterly reports. So do you think this is

reports. So do you think this is reports. So do you think this is unsustainable? Do you agree to disagree?

unsustainable? Do you agree to disagree? unsustainable? Do you agree to disagree? What's your take? First of all we need

What's your take? First of all we need What's your take? First of all we need to understand that affiliation when it

to understand that affiliation when it to understand that affiliation when it comes to I gaming is a totally different

comes to I gaming is a totally different comes to I gaming is a totally different thing than operation. Okay. And if we

thing than operation. Okay. And if we thing than operation. Okay. And if we want to be honest, we can say that the

want to be honest, we can say that the want to be honest, we can say that the way that affiliation was treated until

way that affiliation was treated until way that affiliation was treated until recently, and I say until recently

recently, and I say until recently recently, and I say until recently because there are more than five

because there are more than five because there are more than five companies, more than three to be more

companies, more than three to be more companies, more than three to be more precise, that they understand the

precise, that they understand the precise, that they understand the infotainment approach of the

infotainment approach of the infotainment approach of the affiliation. So if we see just the SEO

affiliation. So if we see just the SEO affiliation. So if we see just the SEO affiliation with static URLs and static

affiliation with static URLs and static affiliation with static URLs and static pages that they're pointing into the

pages that they're pointing into the pages that they're pointing into the head homepage of a website and we expect

head homepage of a website and we expect head homepage of a website and we expect with some tactics with some techniques

with some tactics with some techniques with some tactics with some techniques that we all know the past 15 20 years

that we all know the past 15 20 years that we all know the past 15 20 years that it use I don't think it's going to

that it use I don't think it's going to that it use I don't think it's going to use anymore. I don't think it's gonna be

use anymore. I don't think it's gonna be use anymore. I don't think it's gonna be effective because we've seen it all over

effective because we've seen it all over effective because we've seen it all over the podcasts, all over the conferences,

the podcasts, all over the conferences, the podcasts, all over the conferences, all over LinkedIn and the web that there

all over LinkedIn and the web that there all over LinkedIn and the web that there is a very big talk about branding. But

is a very big talk about branding. But is a very big talk about branding. But if we analyze what is a brand, first of

if we analyze what is a brand, first of if we analyze what is a brand, first of all, we need to understand what is a

all, we need to understand what is a all, we need to understand what is a long-term and what is a short term of a

long-term and what is a short term of a long-term and what is a short term of a strategy. And if we go to the back old

strategy. And if we go to the back old strategy. And if we go to the back old days of affiliation with the exact match

days of affiliation with the exact match days of affiliation with the exact match domains for example and we don't have a

domains for example and we don't have a domains for example and we don't have a brand there then we can see where the

brand there then we can see where the brand there then we can see where the problem is because we're seeing that

problem is because we're seeing that problem is because we're seeing that we're seeing that on the stats on the

we're seeing that on the stats on the we're seeing that on the stats on the analytics on the data of these kind of

analytics on the data of these kind of analytics on the data of these kind of affiliate websites that they need

affiliate websites that they need affiliate websites that they need something else in order to compete. So

something else in order to compete. So something else in order to compete. So if you ask me affiliation like 10 or 15

if you ask me affiliation like 10 or 15 if you ask me affiliation like 10 or 15 years ago is this going to be a

years ago is this going to be a years ago is this going to be a thing? Yes and no. I'm going to answer

thing? Yes and no. I'm going to answer thing? Yes and no. I'm going to answer and I'm not going to answer as an SEO,

and I'm not going to answer as an SEO, and I'm not going to answer as an SEO, but I'm going to tell you that if your

but I'm going to tell you that if your but I'm going to tell you that if your goal is a short-term win that we've seen

goal is a short-term win that we've seen goal is a short-term win that we've seen a lot of companies doing that

a lot of companies doing that a lot of companies doing that successfully, yes. But if you want a

successfully, yes. But if you want a successfully, yes. But if you want a long-term strategy for your business,

long-term strategy for your business, long-term strategy for your business, and I'm talking from I'm coming from a

and I'm talking from I'm coming from a and I'm talking from I'm coming from a big company that we need to have all our

big company that we need to have all our big company that we need to have all our properties and our brands and as

properties and our brands and as properties and our brands and as gamblers for example, we can say it's

gamblers for example, we can say it's gamblers for example, we can say it's successful and it's going to continue

successful and it's going to continue successful and it's going to continue successful. So, it's the brand mode.

successful. So, it's the brand mode. successful. So, it's the brand mode. Okay, I mostly agree where I've talked

Okay, I mostly agree where I've talked Okay, I mostly agree where I've talked to a lot of big companies and when they

to a lot of big companies and when they to a lot of big companies and when they already had a quality approach even

already had a quality approach even already had a quality approach even before a lot of the the helpful content

before a lot of the the helpful content before a lot of the the helpful content updates like they weren't really worried

updates like they weren't really worried updates like they weren't really worried before. They did predict that something

before. They did predict that something before. They did predict that something was going to happen where things was going to happen where things was going to happen where things wouldn't be as good as they used to be,

wouldn't be as good as they used to be, wouldn't be as good as they used to be, but they don't seem worried. I think

but they don't seem worried. I think but they don't seem worried. I think we're maybe shifting into this new era

we're maybe shifting into this new era we're maybe shifting into this new era of quality where like you said, it's

of quality where like you said, it's of quality where like you said, it's like what worked in the past was spray

like what worked in the past was spray like what worked in the past was spray and prey like basic reviews, VPN

and prey like basic reviews, VPN and prey like basic reviews, VPN reviews, casino reviews. We've all seen

reviews, casino reviews. We've all seen reviews, casino reviews. We've all seen the affiliates that haven't tried hard

the affiliates that haven't tried hard the affiliates that haven't tried hard but I think we're noticing at the but I think we're noticing at the but I think we're noticing at the conferences that there seems to be less

conferences that there seems to be less conferences that there seems to be less number of affiliates but the volume

number of affiliates but the volume number of affiliates but the volume doesn't seem to be shrinking when we doesn't seem to be shrinking when we doesn't seem to be shrinking when we analyze what we can get our hands on in

analyze what we can get our hands on in analyze what we can get our hands on in terms of data. I can tell you something

terms of data. I can tell you something terms of data. I can tell you something here. We see in conferences less

here. We see in conferences less here. We see in conferences less affiliates. However, these businesses

affiliates. However, these businesses affiliates. However, these businesses are not closed. Like we can think on the

are not closed. Like we can think on the are not closed. Like we can think on the conferences that the stands a lot of the

conferences that the stands a lot of the conferences that the stands a lot of the times we don't see like even gen two

times we don't see like even gen two times we don't see like even gen two right now. We don't go to all the

right now. We don't go to all the right now. We don't go to all the conferences with the stand but that

conferences with the stand but that conferences with the stand but that doesn't mean that we're not profitable.

doesn't mean that we're not profitable. doesn't mean that we're not profitable. So it's a different thing on the company

So it's a different thing on the company So it's a different thing on the company the business side of things of a company

the business side of things of a company the business side of things of a company how they're going to run things if they

how they're going to run things if they how they're going to run things if they are active. And also because I don't

are active. And also because I don't are active. And also because I don't want to get wrong, there are people who

want to get wrong, there are people who want to get wrong, there are people who are working differently in our industry.

are working differently in our industry. are working differently in our industry. I'm not saying that affiliation in other

I'm not saying that affiliation in other I'm not saying that affiliation in other terms, I don't want to be very precise,

terms, I don't want to be very precise, terms, I don't want to be very precise, but I'm sure you understand what I'm but I'm sure you understand what I'm but I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. It's not working, but it's the

saying. It's not working, but it's the saying. It's not working, but it's the long-term and the short term. So, I'm

long-term and the short term. So, I'm long-term and the short term. So, I'm not going to say they're not winning not going to say they're not winning not going to say they're not winning because we see the results. We saw also

because we see the results. We saw also because we see the results. We saw also the expired domains that in SERs, we see

the expired domains that in SERs, we see the expired domains that in SERs, we see right now a lot of expired domains

right now a lot of expired domains right now a lot of expired domains ranking up. We saw the parasite ratio.

ranking up. We saw the parasite ratio. ranking up. We saw the parasite ratio. We have seen a lot of things that is

We have seen a lot of things that is We have seen a lot of things that is going on. However, it's how your

going on. However, it's how your going on. However, it's how your business, how your company builds their

business, how your company builds their business, how your company builds their strategy and how they move forward.

strategy and how they move forward. strategy and how they move forward. Okay. A question that just popped into

Okay. A question that just popped into Okay. A question that just popped into my mind was we've seen Google compete

my mind was we've seen Google compete my mind was we've seen Google compete with other companies like they're doing with other companies like they're doing with other companies like they're doing it with Kal Kalanly. They've created

it with Kal Kalanly. They've created it with Kal Kalanly. They've created their own travel site where it's like

their own travel site where it's like their own travel site where it's like google.comtravel. So that's what

google.comtravel. So that's what google.comtravel. So that's what Google's been doing. They decide if and

Google's been doing. They decide if and Google's been doing. They decide if and when they want to jump into a when they want to jump into a when they want to jump into a marketplace and say you know what we can

marketplace and say you know what we can marketplace and say you know what we can just own everything. Do you think with a

just own everything. Do you think with a just own everything. Do you think with a lot of the companies like Perplexity and

lot of the companies like Perplexity and lot of the companies like Perplexity and Chatbt OpenAI, do you think they're

Chatbt OpenAI, do you think they're Chatbt OpenAI, do you think they're going to be a bit more aggressive and be

going to be a bit more aggressive and be going to be a bit more aggressive and be less friendly towards this affiliation

less friendly towards this affiliation less friendly towards this affiliation model and say, you know what, if we have

model and say, you know what, if we have model and say, you know what, if we have the data, why are we actually helping

the data, why are we actually helping the data, why are we actually helping send users to a destination, which is an

send users to a destination, which is an send users to a destination, which is an affiliate site, where there's commission affiliate site, where there's commission affiliate site, where there's commission to be made, why don't they just jump in

to be made, why don't they just jump in to be made, why don't they just jump in and just say, hey, we're going to take and just say, hey, we're going to take and just say, hey, we're going to take all of it. To be honest, in order to

all of it. To be honest, in order to all of it. To be honest, in order to understand this, we need to see the

understand this, we need to see the understand this, we need to see the audience. And we need to analyze the

audience. And we need to analyze the audience. And we need to analyze the audience that first of all is the

audience that first of all is the audience that first of all is the audience that converts. And if we go and

audience that converts. And if we go and audience that converts. And if we go and analyze this, I'm going to say as

analyze this, I'm going to say as analyze this, I'm going to say as affiliates, for example, the big players

affiliates, for example, the big players affiliates, for example, the big players around us, our Gen Z, our millennials,

around us, our Gen Z, our millennials, around us, our Gen Z, our millennials, what what is their the profile of the

what what is their the profile of the what what is their the profile of the player that we want to meet? And of

player that we want to meet? And of player that we want to meet? And of course we have AI, we have perplexity

course we have AI, we have perplexity course we have AI, we have perplexity and we should have allow our websites to

and we should have allow our websites to and we should have allow our websites to allow the crawls and be indexed. And of

allow the crawls and be indexed. And of allow the crawls and be indexed. And of course there are a lot of tactics that

course there are a lot of tactics that course there are a lot of tactics that we are already implementing more than a

we are already implementing more than a we are already implementing more than a year on our content on how to be more

year on our content on how to be more year on our content on how to be more friendly to AI overviews or to AI tools

friendly to AI overviews or to AI tools friendly to AI overviews or to AI tools or how you can appear that we have seen

or how you can appear that we have seen or how you can appear that we have seen because both we are many years in this

because both we are many years in this because both we are many years in this industry and we have seen a lot of

industry and we have seen a lot of industry and we have seen a lot of changes on the trends right like the

changes on the trends right like the changes on the trends right like the voice search you remember voice search

voice search you remember voice search voice search you remember voice search when we had first I'm not going to say

when we had first I'm not going to say when we had first I'm not going to say the name because it's going to start the name because it's going to start the name because it's going to start speaking but then we had the structure

speaking but then we had the structure speaking but then we had the structure on the feature snippets and how we're

on the feature snippets and how we're on the feature snippets and how we're going to answer the features snippets going to answer the features snippets going to answer the features snippets how we're going to do the people also

how we're going to do the people also how we're going to do the people also asked there's a brand as well a website

asked there's a brand as well a website asked there's a brand as well a website about that but then also Google feature

about that but then also Google feature about that but then also Google feature that at the bottom I believe it's a

that at the bottom I believe it's a that at the bottom I believe it's a trend I believe it's a trend that it's

trend I believe it's a trend that it's trend I believe it's a trend that it's useful if you know how to use it and

useful if you know how to use it and useful if you know how to use it and also it will help because for many years

also it will help because for many years also it will help because for many years we have the zero click strategy and you

we have the zero click strategy and you we have the zero click strategy and you can implement this strategy on your can implement this strategy on your can implement this strategy on your products as well so I'm not a believer

products as well so I'm not a believer products as well so I'm not a believer that AI or all these tools are going to

that AI or all these tools are going to that AI or all these tools are going to steal because I don't think the value of

steal because I don't think the value of steal because I don't think the value of the player

the player the player that we work and we target and we want

that we work and we target and we want that we work and we target and we want to focus is not going to use Google or

to focus is not going to use Google or to focus is not going to use Google or or Bing because also we see a huge

or Bing because also we see a huge or Bing because also we see a huge increase on Bing as well these days

increase on Bing as well these days increase on Bing as well these days maybe for the next 10 years like I see

maybe for the next 10 years like I see maybe for the next 10 years like I see it or 10 or 20 years I don't think

it or 10 or 20 years I don't think it or 10 or 20 years I don't think Google is going to miss the game to be

Google is going to miss the game to be Google is going to miss the game to be honest they have a very big pie of

honest they have a very big pie of honest they have a very big pie of course there are other silver linings

course there are other silver linings course there are other silver linings like the social media or some other

like the social media or some other like the social media or some other things that you need to have on your things that you need to have on your things that you need to have on your strategy but the search do a test let's

strategy but the search do a test let's strategy but the search do a test let's say you're going going to be in Malta say you're going going to be in Malta say you're going going to be in Malta right in June. H do a test. How do you

right in June. H do a test. How do you right in June. H do a test. How do you search? So, everyone has the Chad GPT

search? So, everyone has the Chad GPT search? So, everyone has the Chad GPT app on their phone or everyone has

app on their phone or everyone has app on their phone or everyone has perplexity and when they want to search

perplexity and when they want to search perplexity and when they want to search something they go where what is the

something they go where what is the something they go where what is the default on your mobile phone because

default on your mobile phone because default on your mobile phone because more than 80% is on the mobile right. So

more than 80% is on the mobile right. So more than 80% is on the mobile right. So how do you do your search and then

how do you do your search and then how do you do your search and then casino sports and other verticals how

casino sports and other verticals how casino sports and other verticals how you play on your desktop computer or

you play on your desktop computer or you play on your desktop computer or your mobile phone and what so I think

your mobile phone and what so I think your mobile phone and what so I think before going into conclusions all the

before going into conclusions all the before going into conclusions all the professionals here they need to adapt to

professionals here they need to adapt to professionals here they need to adapt to the new tools first but also they need

the new tools first but also they need the new tools first but also they need to have a very precise strategy on why

to have a very precise strategy on why to have a very precise strategy on why they're doing what they're doing and

they're doing what they're doing and they're doing what they're doing and what is their goal what is their vision

what is their goal what is their vision what is their goal what is their vision and what they're aiming

and what they're aiming and what they're aiming Yeah, I I agree because I think at the

Yeah, I I agree because I think at the Yeah, I I agree because I think at the end of the day, players, it's not like

end of the day, players, it's not like end of the day, players, it's not like they're going to stop because Google's they're going to stop because Google's they're going to stop because Google's getting in the way. Like the players are

getting in the way. Like the players are getting in the way. Like the players are the start and it's like they come in

the start and it's like they come in the start and it's like they come in from two destinations. Either they

from two destinations. Either they from two destinations. Either they already have the intent and they're already have the intent and they're already have the intent and they're ready to go. Maybe it's because of TV

ready to go. Maybe it's because of TV ready to go. Maybe it's because of TV ads or it's because of accidental

ads or it's because of accidental ads or it's because of accidental because someone's they're on Facebook

because someone's they're on Facebook because someone's they're on Facebook and someone creates an ad and yeah, they

and someone creates an ad and yeah, they and someone creates an ad and yeah, they get bored and they click on it. Do you get bored and they click on it. Do you get bored and they click on it. Do you think operators stand a chance to

think operators stand a chance to think operators stand a chance to benefit from this new era where AI's

benefit from this new era where AI's benefit from this new era where AI's kind of disrupted a lot of things?

kind of disrupted a lot of things? kind of disrupted a lot of things? Google just disrupted and the players

Google just disrupted and the players Google just disrupted and the players might actually find less shortcuts from

might actually find less shortcuts from might actually find less shortcuts from the affiliate site and just go right to the affiliate site and just go right to the affiliate site and just go right to the operator.

the operator. the operator. First of all, we've seen that a lot of

First of all, we've seen that a lot of First of all, we've seen that a lot of operators, they're focusing an issue

operators, they're focusing an issue operators, they're focusing an issue right now. Something that we didn't see

right now. Something that we didn't see right now. Something that we didn't see in the past years. And for me, that's

in the past years. And for me, that's in the past years. And for me, that's good to be honest because there is a

good to be honest because there is a good to be honest because there is a different value when you as an operator,

different value when you as an operator, different value when you as an operator, you're doing SEO. And there is a

you're doing SEO. And there is a you're doing SEO. And there is a different value where you as an

different value where you as an different value where you as an affiliate, me as an affiliate, we're

affiliate, me as an affiliate, we're affiliate, me as an affiliate, we're doing SEO. Okay? It's a different intent

doing SEO. Okay? It's a different intent doing SEO. Okay? It's a different intent on why we're doing that. I believe that

on why we're doing that. I believe that on why we're doing that. I believe that it's good for operators. They have

it's good for operators. They have it's good for operators. They have something that we mentioned before. They

something that we mentioned before. They something that we mentioned before. They have a huge brand and they have a very

have a huge brand and they have a very have a huge brand and they have a very good name and authority and I talk now

good name and authority and I talk now good name and authority and I talk now for big operators in both regulated or

for big operators in both regulated or for big operators in both regulated or unregulated or gray as they say in

unregulated or gray as they say in unregulated or gray as they say in markets. But the thing is that the brand

markets. But the thing is that the brand markets. But the thing is that the brand it's very difficult to fight if you have

it's very difficult to fight if you have it's very difficult to fight if you have h but I don't think that it's something

h but I don't think that it's something h but I don't think that it's something that needs to be considered as a fight.

that needs to be considered as a fight. that needs to be considered as a fight. Me personally, John, I think that

Me personally, John, I think that Me personally, John, I think that everything has its spot. And in

everything has its spot. And in everything has its spot. And in affiliation, let's be honest, when

affiliation, let's be honest, when affiliation, let's be honest, when you're an operator, there is a limit.

you're an operator, there is a limit. you're an operator, there is a limit. There is a limit per market. There is a

There is a limit per market. There is a There is a limit per market. There is a limit per player value. There are

limit per player value. There are limit per player value. There are limits. When you're an affiliate, there

limits. When you're an affiliate, there limits. When you're an affiliate, there are no limits. And let's face it,

true. I interviewed a guy who's an SEO, true. I interviewed a guy who's an SEO, Mark Preston, and he said, like I asked

Mark Preston, and he said, like I asked Mark Preston, and he said, like I asked him like, "What would you do if you had him like, "What would you do if you had him like, "What would you do if you had an affiliate site?" Or, "What are things

an affiliate site?" Or, "What are things an affiliate site?" Or, "What are things that you see affiliates don't do enough

that you see affiliates don't do enough that you see affiliates don't do enough of?" And one thing that he said that was

of?" And one thing that he said that was of?" And one thing that he said that was strong on his list was he just said,

strong on his list was he just said, strong on his list was he just said, "People aren't really doing surveys.

"People aren't really doing surveys. "People aren't really doing surveys. They're not asking their customer like,

They're not asking their customer like, They're not asking their customer like, "Hey, how are we doing? What are you

"Hey, how are we doing? What are you "Hey, how are we doing? What are you interested in?" If you think about all interested in?" If you think about all interested in?" If you think about all the times that we've all done our own the times that we've all done our own the times that we've all done our own research and said, "Okay, let me sign up

research and said, "Okay, let me sign up research and said, "Okay, let me sign up to Ask Damage Casino Meister, Casino

to Ask Damage Casino Meister, Casino to Ask Damage Casino Meister, Casino Guru because I want to test out like

Guru because I want to test out like Guru because I want to test out like what are they sending me as a player what are they sending me as a player what are they sending me as a player that does complaints?" I find this rare.

that does complaints?" I find this rare. that does complaints?" I find this rare. It's I think no one's really asking

It's I think no one's really asking It's I think no one's really asking their customers like tell us some info.

their customers like tell us some info. their customers like tell us some info. Like there's a lot of data there. What's

Like there's a lot of data there. What's Like there's a lot of data there. What's your thoughts on this whole concept?

your thoughts on this whole concept? your thoughts on this whole concept? Should we do more of this?

Should we do more of this? Should we do more of this? Yes and no. And I'm going to tell you

Yes and no. And I'm going to tell you Yes and no. And I'm going to tell you why. It's not very easy. because the

why. It's not very easy. because the why. It's not very easy. because the visitors that you're going to get on a visitors that you're going to get on a visitors that you're going to get on a website, they're not willingly free or

website, they're not willingly free or website, they're not willingly free or give you the time to answer that. For

give you the time to answer that. For give you the time to answer that. For example, there are techniques that you

example, there are techniques that you example, there are techniques that you can do a giveaway, you can offer a

can do a giveaway, you can offer a can do a giveaway, you can offer a present or an award for that, to take

present or an award for that, to take present or an award for that, to take what they think of your product. But

what they think of your product. But what they think of your product. But let's face it, users right now to play

let's face it, users right now to play let's face it, users right now to play to to spend their time, you need to give

to to spend their time, you need to give to to spend their time, you need to give them some, right? So everything is back

them some, right? So everything is back them some, right? So everything is back on what we discussed a little bit before

on what we discussed a little bit before on what we discussed a little bit before the profile, the character that you're

the profile, the character that you're the profile, the character that you're targeting and you're aiming and you

targeting and you're aiming and you targeting and you're aiming and you should do this strategy so you know what

should do this strategy so you know what should do this strategy so you know what the players want and of course that

the players want and of course that the players want and of course that separates what's because you mentioned

separates what's because you mentioned separates what's because you mentioned two of the websites two of the websites two of the websites right in my company but as gamblers and

right in my company but as gamblers and right in my company but as gamblers and casino but you know what the very

casino but you know what the very casino but you know what the very powerful thing that we need to consider

powerful thing that we need to consider powerful thing that we need to consider right now is how we want to work. So for

right now is how we want to work. So for right now is how we want to work. So for me if someone asked me what is something

me if someone asked me what is something me if someone asked me what is something that is missing and I see to youngsters

that is missing and I see to youngsters that is missing and I see to youngsters I see to young generation that they do

I see to young generation that they do I see to young generation that they do that and most of my age the 40 plus guys

that and most of my age the 40 plus guys that and most of my age the 40 plus guys they seem to not focusing so much is

they seem to not focusing so much is they seem to not focusing so much is fight for ranking fight to

fight for ranking fight to fight for ranking fight to rank like we seen people that they fight

rank like we seen people that they fight rank like we seen people that they fight to rank that's their goal not create all

to rank that's their goal not create all to rank that's their goal not create all these fancy things that we read on the

these fancy things that we read on the these fancy things that we read on the theory which by the way they work. Okay,

theory which by the way they work. Okay, theory which by the way they work. Okay, but do you fight to rank? Do you have

but do you fight to rank? Do you have but do you fight to rank? Do you have goals? Let's go. Top five, top three.

goals? Let's go. Top five, top three. goals? Let's go. Top five, top three. Let's go number two. Let's go number one

Let's go number two. Let's go number one Let's go number two. Let's go number one now. Let's fight for

now. Let's fight for now. Let's fight for that. I don't see it very often to be

that. I don't see it very often to be that. I don't see it very often to be honest. And I see it more on the younger

honest. And I see it more on the younger honest. And I see it more on the younger generations that there are with other

generations that there are with other generations that there are with other ways, but they're doing it. They're

ways, but they're doing it. They're ways, but they're doing it. They're fighting. Okay. I want to go back into a

fighting. Okay. I want to go back into a fighting. Okay. I want to go back into a concept where a lot of people say our

concept where a lot of people say our concept where a lot of people say our eye gaming industry is not very good

eye gaming industry is not very good eye gaming industry is not very good with ideas mostly because we've had a

with ideas mostly because we've had a with ideas mostly because we've had a lot of money to be able to buy our way

lot of money to be able to buy our way lot of money to be able to buy our way to success whether it's SEO on the

to success whether it's SEO on the to success whether it's SEO on the affiliate side or operators simply just

affiliate side or operators simply just affiliate side or operators simply just relying on SEO traffic. What do you

relying on SEO traffic. What do you relying on SEO traffic. What do you think our people could do better of both

think our people could do better of both think our people could do better of both on the affiliate and operator side when

on the affiliate and operator side when on the affiliate and operator side when it comes to content? Like we've seen

it comes to content? Like we've seen it comes to content? Like we've seen what is the old playbook. It's like just

what is the old playbook. It's like just what is the old playbook. It's like just create anything, throw it on the wall,

create anything, throw it on the wall, create anything, throw it on the wall, do languages, build links. What is wrong

do languages, build links. What is wrong do languages, build links. What is wrong with content today or what could people

with content today or what could people with content today or what could people do?

do? do? First let me tell you something that I

First let me tell you something that I First let me tell you something that I hear in my opinion operators they don't

hear in my opinion operators they don't hear in my opinion operators they don't rely only on SEO because good operators

rely only on SEO because good operators rely only on SEO because good operators they cover all the verticals right so

they cover all the verticals right so they cover all the verticals right so they have affiliation as well we are in

they have affiliation as well we are in they have affiliation as well we are in the affiliate BI right

the affiliate BI right the affiliate BI right podcast and affiliation is a huge

podcast and affiliation is a huge podcast and affiliation is a huge vertical and also we have SEO we have

vertical and also we have SEO we have vertical and also we have SEO we have social media we have PPC etc. Now when

social media we have PPC etc. Now when social media we have PPC etc. Now when it comes to content, unfortunately and I

it comes to content, unfortunately and I it comes to content, unfortunately and I personally saw a lot of content agencies

personally saw a lot of content agencies personally saw a lot of content agencies and a lot of content people relying on

and a lot of content people relying on and a lot of content people relying on AI creation without a purpose and

AI creation without a purpose and AI creation without a purpose and without a reason. Does it work in some

without a reason. Does it work in some without a reason. Does it work in some markets? Yeah. Does it work? Does it

markets? Yeah. Does it work? Does it markets? Yeah. Does it work? Does it work in the competitive markets? We've

work in the competitive markets? We've work in the competitive markets? We've seen it happening. Does it last? So far,

seen it happening. Does it last? So far, seen it happening. Does it last? So far, no. But of course, I cannot say what's

no. But of course, I cannot say what's no. But of course, I cannot say what's going to happen next. But I'm going to

going to happen next. But I'm going to going to happen next. But I'm going to tell you this. me or you as a player

tell you this. me or you as a player tell you this. me or you as a player that you search for something. Do you

that you search for something. Do you that you search for something. Do you really want to see another review that

really want to see another review that really want to see another review that it's a templated review on an affiliate

it's a templated review on an affiliate it's a templated review on an affiliate that tells you this is for example John

that tells you this is for example John that tells you this is for example John Wright and it's that years these are the

Wright and it's that years these are the Wright and it's that years these are the payment methods these are the games give

payment methods these are the games give payment methods these are the games give you some game reviews as well and that's

you some game reviews as well and that's you some game reviews as well and that's it. So as I said it's very different

it. So as I said it's very different it. So as I said it's very different thing to to start thinking how I'm going

thing to to start thinking how I'm going thing to to start thinking how I'm going to be different how I'm going to succeed

to be different how I'm going to succeed to be different how I'm going to succeed as gamblers for example what they did

as gamblers for example what they did as gamblers for example what they did was innovating and now we're waiting to

was innovating and now we're waiting to was innovating and now we're waiting to see what is the next thing of innovation

see what is the next thing of innovation see what is the next thing of innovation right because even applications right

right because even applications right right because even applications right now we have applications that they're

now we have applications that they're now we have applications that they're successful so they need to focus on the

successful so they need to focus on the successful so they need to focus on the content on how even if they use some AI

content on how even if they use some AI content on how even if they use some AI tools how they're gonna

tools how they're gonna tools how they're gonna become become become unique. But again, I'm going to tell you

unique. But again, I'm going to tell you unique. But again, I'm going to tell you something. I might seem like an old guy

something. I might seem like an old guy something. I might seem like an old guy on the on the on the audience. I'm always focusing on the

audience. I'm always focusing on the audience. I'm always focusing on the long term and I cannot tell you that I

long term and I cannot tell you that I long term and I cannot tell you that I don't know or when I was young as well,

don't know or when I was young as well, don't know or when I was young as well, I didn't try the short terms.

I didn't try the short terms. I didn't try the short terms. But when you have to create a strategy

But when you have to create a strategy But when you have to create a strategy and when there are a lot of people

and when there are a lot of people and when there are a lot of people relying in a company and families and

relying in a company and families and relying in a company and families and their lives basically you need to think

their lives basically you need to think their lives basically you need to think of ways that you're going to be

of ways that you're going to be of ways that you're going to be innovate. You're innovative. You're

innovate. You're innovative. You're innovate. You're innovative. You're going to be entertaining for the

going to be entertaining for the going to be entertaining for the audience because also the audience needs

audience because also the audience needs audience because also the audience needs to be entertained. You need to be very

to be entertained. You need to be very to be entertained. You need to be very good informative. So the information you

good informative. So the information you good informative. So the information you give is clear compliant like you give

give is clear compliant like you give give is clear compliant like you give all the truth on that

all the truth on that all the truth on that and you need to make sure that after all

and you need to make sure that after all and you need to make sure that after all it's a game right so

it's a game right so it's a game right so people come and they need to know

people come and they need to know people come and they need to know precisely and also enjoy a little bit

precisely and also enjoy a little bit precisely and also enjoy a little bit the process always responsibly but enjoy

the process always responsibly but enjoy the process always responsibly but enjoy the process. Yeah I circle back. Go

the process. Yeah I circle back. Go the process. Yeah I circle back. Go ahead. ahead. ahead. Sorry, but casino it's one of the

Sorry, but casino it's one of the Sorry, but casino it's one of the sections that you know I like right but

sections that you know I like right but sections that you know I like right but sports is my law and you can say that

sports is my law and you can say that sports is my law and you can say that from how I talk right now for the

from how I talk right now for the from how I talk right now for the players for the enjoyment for how fun it

players for the enjoyment for how fun it players for the enjoyment for how fun it relates a lot to the sports. Yeah, I

relates a lot to the sports. Yeah, I relates a lot to the sports. Yeah, I could spoke I could speak hours for

could spoke I could speak hours for could spoke I could speak hours for sports I agree. It's like I started in

sports I agree. It's like I started in sports I agree. It's like I started in the industry as a bonus hunter playing the industry as a bonus hunter playing the industry as a bonus hunter playing casinos but sports betting and poker for

casinos but sports betting and poker for casinos but sports betting and poker for me was more fun. But casinos, it's like

me was more fun. But casinos, it's like me was more fun. But casinos, it's like I did the affiliate game back in the day I did the affiliate game back in the day I did the affiliate game back in the day and I was like, "All right, this is and I was like, "All right, this is and I was like, "All right, this is easy. Just write casino reviews. Wasn't

easy. Just write casino reviews. Wasn't easy. Just write casino reviews. Wasn't very fun to build them." But I think

very fun to build them." But I think very fun to build them." But I think this was a lot of affiliates back in the

this was a lot of affiliates back in the this was a lot of affiliates back in the day. It's make money, but no one's

day. It's make money, but no one's day. It's make money, but no one's really putting a bit of fun or what I

really putting a bit of fun or what I really putting a bit of fun or what I was going to get to is products and

was going to get to is products and was going to get to is products and data. Like I think the new era of

data. Like I think the new era of data. Like I think the new era of affiliates is going to be what you said

affiliates is going to be what you said affiliates is going to be what you said earlier, info infotainment. It's either

earlier, info infotainment. It's either earlier, info infotainment. It's either going to educate or entertain. Pick one

going to educate or entertain. Pick one going to educate or entertain. Pick one or the other or both. But I think a lot

or the other or both. But I think a lot or the other or both. But I think a lot of the old affiliate sites were they

of the old affiliate sites were they of the old affiliate sites were they just weren't doing any of that. That is

just weren't doing any of that. That is just weren't doing any of that. That is exactly what I said when I what I meant

exactly what I said when I what I meant exactly what I said when I what I meant when I said that also the affiliates

when I said that also the affiliates when I said that also the affiliates need to have a more holistic approach on

need to have a more holistic approach on need to have a more holistic approach on the strategy because I'm not going to

the strategy because I'm not going to the strategy because I'm not going to mention now names of the companies but

mention now names of the companies but mention now names of the companies but we've seen how websites they're aligning

we've seen how websites they're aligning we've seen how websites they're aligning with YouTube channels they're aligning

with YouTube channels they're aligning with YouTube channels they're aligning with tweets or other live streaming

with tweets or other live streaming with tweets or other live streaming services. They're are aligning with

services. They're are aligning with services. They're are aligning with social media with Telegram. a lot of

social media with Telegram. a lot of social media with Telegram. a lot of things and they build all of this

things and they build all of this things and they build all of this infotainment for the audience. If you

infotainment for the audience. If you infotainment for the audience. If you don't go that way and if you don't start

don't go that way and if you don't start don't go that way and if you don't start investing on that and start creating it

investing on that and start creating it investing on that and start creating it correctly, then it's a little bit more

correctly, then it's a little bit more correctly, then it's a little bit more hard and then of course I'm going to hard and then of course I'm going to hard and then of course I'm going to have people telling me, "Come on, man.

have people telling me, "Come on, man. have people telling me, "Come on, man. How we're going to do it in casino? How

How we're going to do it in casino? How How we're going to do it in casino? How what is the things that we can do from

what is the things that we can do from what is the things that we can do from casino?" Because also the Ramstein era

casino?" Because also the Ramstein era casino?" Because also the Ramstein era of playing slots, yeah, it's declining

of playing slots, yeah, it's declining of playing slots, yeah, it's declining as well for some. So no, everyone is

as well for some. So no, everyone is as well for some. So no, everyone is going to be like that to have someone

going to be like that to have someone going to be like that to have someone play online slots for example or online

play online slots for example or online play online slots for example or online casino. But the thing is again this is

casino. But the thing is again this is casino. But the thing is again this is where we need all of us to think on how

where we need all of us to think on how where we need all of us to think on how we can make this and this industry look

we can make this and this industry look we can make this and this industry look better and if you ask me to not get

better and if you ask me to not get better and if you ask me to not get boring because yeah this is something

boring because yeah this is something boring because yeah this is something that frustrates me a lot to think that

that frustrates me a lot to think that that frustrates me a lot to think that I'm boring.

I'm boring. I'm boring. Yeah, we were chatting about this

Yeah, we were chatting about this Yeah, we were chatting about this concept where where's the space going?

concept where where's the space going? concept where where's the space going? Is it going to be more operators that

Is it going to be more operators that Is it going to be more operators that create their affiliate division or is it

create their affiliate division or is it create their affiliate division or is it affiliates that are just going to go affiliates that are just going to go affiliates that are just going to go forward? So, I do think operators are

forward? So, I do think operators are forward? So, I do think operators are probably going to jump more into the probably going to jump more into the probably going to jump more into the affiliate space where they just

affiliate space where they just affiliate space where they just understand the business better. But do

understand the business better. But do understand the business better. But do you think that with tools like dynamic

you think that with tools like dynamic you think that with tools like dynamic variables where you can actually own the

variables where you can actually own the variables where you can actually own the player? So, for example, rather than

player? So, for example, rather than player? So, for example, rather than taking your newsletter database, whether

taking your newsletter database, whether taking your newsletter database, whether it's ask it, it doesn't matter. You send

it's ask it, it doesn't matter. You send it's ask it, it doesn't matter. You send each player a unique click ID and you

each player a unique click ID and you each player a unique click ID and you basically track their revenue activity

basically track their revenue activity basically track their revenue activity such that whenever they churn for

such that whenever they churn for such that whenever they churn for however whatever reason they churn you

however whatever reason they churn you however whatever reason they churn you can basically say you know what I know

can basically say you know what I know can basically say you know what I know what kind of player you are you become

what kind of player you are you become what kind of player you are you become the VIP manager and you can go back to

the VIP manager and you can go back to the VIP manager and you can go back to them and say okay I've got the next them and say okay I've got the next them and say okay I've got the next click ID to the next brand ready to go.

click ID to the next brand ready to go. click ID to the next brand ready to go. Do you think this potentially could do

Do you think this potentially could do Do you think this potentially could do two things where gives more power to the

two things where gives more power to the two things where gives more power to the affiliate in owning the player and it

affiliate in owning the player and it affiliate in owning the player and it creates more incentives for affiliates

creates more incentives for affiliates creates more incentives for affiliates to productize what they have because you

to productize what they have because you to productize what they have because you can't just be the SEO site that has

can't just be the SEO site that has can't just be the SEO site that has traffic in click on the link and you're

traffic in click on the link and you're traffic in click on the link and you're gone. It's I need to intercept and

gone. It's I need to intercept and gone. It's I need to intercept and interact. This is the whole fight. This

interact. This is the whole fight. This interact. This is the whole fight. This is what we're all aiming to be honest.

is what we're all aiming to be honest. is what we're all aiming to be honest. How we keep this player and how we keep

How we keep this player and how we keep How we keep this player and how we keep this visitor. on your question. I think

this visitor. on your question. I think this visitor. on your question. I think that the reality is basically the

that the reality is basically the that the reality is basically the opposite that we see a lot of affiliates

opposite that we see a lot of affiliates opposite that we see a lot of affiliates creating their own brands right now and

creating their own brands right now and creating their own brands right now and there are a lot there are a lot of

there are a lot there are a lot of there are a lot there are a lot of affiliates that they go and create white

affiliates that they go and create white affiliates that they go and create white labelled or a brand we've seen it in

labelled or a brand we've seen it in labelled or a brand we've seen it in many markets of course

many markets of course many markets of course operators they have the big operators

operators they have the big operators operators they have the big operators they have very good relationships with

they have very good relationships with they have very good relationships with the big affiliates so why go for example

the big affiliates so why go for example the big affiliates so why go for example and create an affiliate network maybe

and create an affiliate network maybe and create an affiliate network maybe we're going to see M&A's

we're going to see M&A's we're going to see M&A's We might or we might see big players

We might or we might see big players We might or we might see big players combine their power together, but I

combine their power together, but I combine their power together, but I would focus more on the affiliates would focus more on the affiliates would focus more on the affiliates becoming operators as well.

becoming operators as well. becoming operators as well. Okay. And then in terms of just the M&A

Okay. And then in terms of just the M&A Okay. And then in terms of just the M&A talks, like when I start looking at what

talks, like when I start looking at what talks, like when I start looking at what types of sites are being acquired, my

types of sites are being acquired, my types of sites are being acquired, my opinion is it's more productl like sites

opinion is it's more productl like sites opinion is it's more productl like sites like we saw as gamblers casino meister,

like we saw as gamblers casino meister, like we saw as gamblers casino meister, we saw gambling.com pick up odds jam and

we saw gambling.com pick up odds jam and we saw gambling.com pick up odds jam and I'm like these have SEO power because

I'm like these have SEO power because I'm like these have SEO power because they're products. But I actually think

they're products. But I actually think they're products. But I actually think that the new era is moving towards this

that the new era is moving towards this that the new era is moving towards this product concept. So do you think M&A is

product concept. So do you think M&A is product concept. So do you think M&A is going to get stronger and we're going to

going to get stronger and we're going to going to get stronger and we're going to see this continuation where it's less

see this continuation where it's less see this continuation where it's less affiliates but it's going to be more of affiliates but it's going to be more of affiliates but it's going to be more of a quality concept behind everything. Not

a quality concept behind everything. Not a quality concept behind everything. Not only quality concept because something

only quality concept because something only quality concept because something that I experienced it myself and I can

that I experienced it myself and I can that I experienced it myself and I can share it with you quality people. Yes.

share it with you quality people. Yes. share it with you quality people. Yes. Because when we have acquisitions you

Because when we have acquisitions you Because when we have acquisitions you also acquire very good quality of people

also acquire very good quality of people also acquire very good quality of people in your team. And I think this is the

in your team. And I think this is the in your team. And I think this is the strongest asset on acquisitions where

strongest asset on acquisitions where strongest asset on acquisitions where companies buy other companies but they

companies buy other companies but they companies buy other companies but they don't also you know throw the people of

don't also you know throw the people of don't also you know throw the people of the company they acquired. I experienced

the company they acquired. I experienced the company they acquired. I experienced it. I still like very big parts of my

it. I still like very big parts of my it. I still like very big parts of my team are coming from an acquisition. I'm

team are coming from an acquisition. I'm team are coming from an acquisition. I'm very proud of them and I think I'm very

very proud of them and I think I'm very very proud of them and I think I'm very happy and lucky that I met them and I

happy and lucky that I met them and I happy and lucky that I met them and I work. So for me acquisitions it's

work. So for me acquisitions it's work. So for me acquisitions it's something that for those who are in this

something that for those who are in this something that for those who are in this game on the companies it needs a very

game on the companies it needs a very game on the companies it needs a very careful consideration because you can

careful consideration because you can careful consideration because you can make it or break it and we've seen it as

make it or break it and we've seen it as make it or break it and we've seen it as well doing an acquisition that it went

well doing an acquisition that it went well doing an acquisition that it went south it didn't work well but of course

south it didn't work well but of course south it didn't work well but of course it helps a lot on strength strengthen

it helps a lot on strength strengthen it helps a lot on strength strengthen company. Yeah. And maybe that we're

company. Yeah. And maybe that we're company. Yeah. And maybe that we're going to see more people be a bit more

going to see more people be a bit more going to see more people be a bit more have higher scrutiny when it comes to

have higher scrutiny when it comes to have higher scrutiny when it comes to acquiring assets where like you said

acquiring assets where like you said acquiring assets where like you said it's not about the IP itself. The people

it's not about the IP itself. The people it's not about the IP itself. The people is a big part of it. Of course for for

is a big part of it. Of course for for is a big part of it. Of course for for me I'm also watching Ted Lasso lately

me I'm also watching Ted Lasso lately me I'm also watching Ted Lasso lately and now I started it. Okay. Good show.

and now I started it. Okay. Good show. and now I started it. Okay. Good show. And I'm more of a people focused person

And I'm more of a people focused person And I'm more of a people focused person to be honest because if you can build a

to be honest because if you can build a to be honest because if you can build a good team then you can aim and you can

good team then you can aim and you can good team then you can aim and you can fight for everything. So, if you don't

fight for everything. So, if you don't fight for everything. So, if you don't have the people, if you don't have the

have the people, if you don't have the have the people, if you don't have the culture, if you don't have the locker

culture, if you don't have the locker culture, if you don't have the locker room, as we say, if you lose the locker

room, as we say, if you lose the locker room, as we say, if you lose the locker room, you're out. Yeah. And I won't get

room, you're out. Yeah. And I won't get room, you're out. Yeah. And I won't get into too much conversation about a

into too much conversation about a into too much conversation about a single bad apple can really drag a team

single bad apple can really drag a team single bad apple can really drag a team down. Exactly. Exactly. So, that's

down. Exactly. Exactly. So, that's down. Exactly. Exactly. So, that's non-negotiable for what we do in our

non-negotiable for what we do in our non-negotiable for what we do in our company. What's the saying? It's higher

company. What's the saying? It's higher company. What's the saying? It's higher fire fast and hire slow.

fire fast and hire slow. fire fast and hire slow. Correct. Yeah. So, so you avoid bad days

Correct. Yeah. So, so you avoid bad days Correct. Yeah. So, so you avoid bad days to be honest. It's the only way to avoid

to be honest. It's the only way to avoid to be honest. It's the only way to avoid bad days. Yeah. And bad sleep, too.

bad days. Yeah. And bad sleep, too. bad days. Yeah. And bad sleep, too. All right. So, let's quickly chat about

All right. So, let's quickly chat about All right. So, let's quickly chat about your You have the best audio and video

your You have the best audio and video your You have the best audio and video setup I've ever seen. When I was doing

setup I've ever seen. When I was doing setup I've ever seen. When I was doing research, okay, let's look up Amelio and

research, okay, let's look up Amelio and research, okay, let's look up Amelio and be like, saw you speak on Brightness

be like, saw you speak on Brightness be like, saw you speak on Brightness SEO, but then I was like, your YouTube

SEO, but then I was like, your YouTube SEO, but then I was like, your YouTube channel has channel has channel has 36.6K followers. I know it's a lot of

36.6K followers. I know it's a lot of 36.6K followers. I know it's a lot of video and audio stuff, but just tell us

video and audio stuff, but just tell us video and audio stuff, but just tell us about that. Clearly, it's a hobby, but I

about that. Clearly, it's a hobby, but I about that. Clearly, it's a hobby, but I think it really benefits your personal

think it really benefits your personal think it really benefits your personal brand and it gives you the power to do brand and it gives you the power to do brand and it gives you the power to do whatever the hell you want. So, I'm

whatever the hell you want. So, I'm whatever the hell you want. So, I'm gonna tell you something. Me as a gonna tell you something. Me as a gonna tell you something. Me as a person, something that the people close

person, something that the people close person, something that the people close to me know, the people that they're not

to me know, the people that they're not to me know, the people that they're not close to me, they don't know is that I

close to me, they don't know is that I close to me, they don't know is that I started when I was 7 years old with

started when I was 7 years old with started when I was 7 years old with guitar as a musician and also

guitar as a musician and also guitar as a musician and also photography and videography like my

photography and videography like my photography and videography like my father had a VHS video camera. I started

father had a VHS video camera. I started father had a VHS video camera. I started document everything. Photography and

document everything. Photography and document everything. Photography and videography and music for me was always

videography and music for me was always videography and music for me was always my passion and my love. But also I was

my passion and my love. But also I was my passion and my love. But also I was lucky enough to have a father who was

lucky enough to have a father who was lucky enough to have a father who was working in the Greek telecommunication

working in the Greek telecommunication working in the Greek telecommunication company and I had one of the pilot PSTN

company and I had one of the pilot PSTN company and I had one of the pilot PSTN line connections that I learned internet

line connections that I learned internet line connections that I learned internet from when it was founded. Imagine I was

from when it was founded. Imagine I was from when it was founded. Imagine I was doing a I was searching things in Alta

doing a I was searching things in Alta doing a I was searching things in Alta Vista way before Google. So all of that

Vista way before Google. So all of that Vista way before Google. So all of that it came and combined together to

it came and combined together to it came and combined together to creating creating creating websites, doing SEO, analyzing data, but

websites, doing SEO, analyzing data, but websites, doing SEO, analyzing data, but also never forget your creative

also never forget your creative also never forget your creative perspective of your personality. And I

perspective of your personality. And I perspective of your personality. And I believe it was about a year before the

believe it was about a year before the believe it was about a year before the quarantine, I had a conversation with

quarantine, I had a conversation with quarantine, I had a conversation with some friends and I was like, I'm going

some friends and I was like, I'm going some friends and I was like, I'm going to create a YouTube channel and I'm

to create a YouTube channel and I'm to create a YouTube channel and I'm going to put a goal to see how far I can

going to put a goal to see how far I can going to put a goal to see how far I can reach it. what I want to do. I want to

reach it. what I want to do. I want to reach it. what I want to do. I want to teach things. So, let me teach and I

teach things. So, let me teach and I teach things. So, let me teach and I didn't start with SEO or digital

didn't start with SEO or digital didn't start with SEO or digital marketing because to be honest, I teach

marketing because to be honest, I teach marketing because to be honest, I teach SEO on the University of Athens and

SEO on the University of Athens and SEO on the University of Athens and economics and business on a master

economics and business on a master economics and business on a master because I like to teach young people,

because I like to teach young people, because I like to teach young people, but I cannot tell you that I'm the guy

but I cannot tell you that I'm the guy but I cannot tell you that I'm the guy or the person who wants to give all the

or the person who wants to give all the or the person who wants to give all the knowledge on you. You get my point

knowledge on you. You get my point knowledge on you. You get my point because this is how I feed my family, my

because this is how I feed my family, my because this is how I feed my family, my my daughter. This is my job. But on

my daughter. This is my job. But on my daughter. This is my job. But on video editing, I could teach what I knew

video editing, I could teach what I knew video editing, I could teach what I knew because I'm not an experienced a

because I'm not an experienced a because I'm not an experienced a professional video editor with editing

professional video editor with editing professional video editor with editing the Netflix movies or on the cinemas.

the Netflix movies or on the cinemas. the Netflix movies or on the cinemas. And also, I like cameras. I like

And also, I like cameras. I like And also, I like cameras. I like lighting. As you see, I like audio. And

lighting. As you see, I like audio. And lighting. As you see, I like audio. And I wanted to show through my YouTube

I wanted to show through my YouTube I wanted to show through my YouTube channel how someone who doesn't have big

channel how someone who doesn't have big channel how someone who doesn't have big experience and without a very big budget

experience and without a very big budget experience and without a very big budget can create something like that. It

can create something like that. It can create something like that. It started to be honest as a joke. it got

started to be honest as a joke. it got started to be honest as a joke. it got picked by the holy algorithm as we all

picked by the holy algorithm as we all picked by the holy algorithm as we all change a lot of the times. However, when

change a lot of the times. However, when change a lot of the times. However, when my daughter was came, she came to life.

my daughter was came, she came to life. my daughter was came, she came to life. I didn't have the time anymore to

I didn't have the time anymore to I didn't have the time anymore to continue. And that's why if someone goes

continue. And that's why if someone goes continue. And that's why if someone goes into my YouTube channel, he's going to

into my YouTube channel, he's going to into my YouTube channel, he's going to say, "Where is this guy? Why did he

say, "Where is this guy? Why did he say, "Where is this guy? Why did he stop?" Because as you saw, it was my

stop?" Because as you saw, it was my stop?" Because as you saw, it was my hobby. However, this gives me the

hobby. However, this gives me the hobby. However, this gives me the freedom and the opportunity whenever I'm

freedom and the opportunity whenever I'm freedom and the opportunity whenever I'm on a podcast

on a podcast on a podcast or the audience see like different

or the audience see like different or the audience see like different things that wait a minute, this is not a

things that wait a minute, this is not a things that wait a minute, this is not a camera from a Mac. What's going on

camera from a Mac. What's going on camera from a Mac. What's going on here? And it's hilarious because I'm

here? And it's hilarious because I'm here? And it's hilarious because I'm using an Elgato camera. So, it's like

using an Elgato camera. So, it's like using an Elgato camera. So, it's like I'm not using my MacBook camera, but I

I'm not using my MacBook camera, but I I'm not using my MacBook camera, but I also know it's not the next level. But

also know it's not the next level. But also know it's not the next level. But for me, I wanted to get started and not

for me, I wanted to get started and not for me, I wanted to get started and not drop an insane amount of money. So, you

drop an insane amount of money. So, you drop an insane amount of money. So, you hear all the stories about people that

hear all the stories about people that hear all the stories about people that they spend too much money on gear and

they spend too much money on gear and they spend too much money on gear and then they don't do the first recording.

then they don't do the first recording. then they don't do the first recording. And for me, like I I know I I listen to

And for me, like I I know I I listen to And for me, like I I know I I listen to some of your comments on your first some of your comments on your first some of your comments on your first videos. You're like, they're bad, but

videos. You're like, they're bad, but videos. You're like, they're bad, but you need the bad before you get started.

you need the bad before you get started. you need the bad before you get started. And for me, I was like, screw it. Let's And for me, I was like, screw it. Let's And for me, I was like, screw it. Let's just Can I give one advice to the

just Can I give one advice to the just Can I give one advice to the audience? Yes. This is the best camera

audience? Yes. This is the best camera audience? Yes. This is the best camera you can have. Ah, no branding. But this

you can have. Ah, no branding. But this you can have. Ah, no branding. But this is your mobile phone. The phone that you

is your mobile phone. The phone that you is your mobile phone. The phone that you carry every day with you. And it's a

carry every day with you. And it's a carry every day with you. And it's a device that has amazing capabilities on

device that has amazing capabilities on device that has amazing capabilities on just start and as as of the audio this

just start and as as of the audio this just start and as as of the audio this is more of people with OCD like me. I

is more of people with OCD like me. I is more of people with OCD like me. I want to have the nice voice because I'm

want to have the nice voice because I'm want to have the nice voice because I'm going to be on a podcast and I remember

going to be on a podcast and I remember going to be on a podcast and I remember I had created a podcast with on the

I had created a podcast with on the I had created a podcast with on the creator economy with two YouTubers and

creator economy with two YouTubers and creator economy with two YouTubers and we were inviting on the show other

we were inviting on the show other we were inviting on the show other YouTubers on the creative photography

YouTubers on the creative photography YouTubers on the creative photography videography with one two three five

videography with one two three five videography with one two three five millions and we were all like cameras,

millions and we were all like cameras, millions and we were all like cameras, lenses, lighting the I was laughing so

lenses, lighting the I was laughing so lenses, lighting the I was laughing so far like people are going to see our

far like people are going to see our far like people are going to see our podcast and are going to say what are podcast and are going to say what are podcast and are going to say what are they doing in their offices concern the

they doing in their offices concern the they doing in their offices concern the homes what are they building there? But

homes what are they building there? But homes what are they building there? But if you want to start something and if

if you want to start something and if if you want to start something and if you have something to say just say with

you have something to say just say with you have something to say just say with your mobile and we see that on LinkedIn

your mobile and we see that on LinkedIn your mobile and we see that on LinkedIn to be honest a lot of people sharing

to be honest a lot of people sharing to be honest a lot of people sharing things just with a mobile phone and we

things just with a mobile phone and we things just with a mobile phone and we see the growth we see how they get

see the growth we see how they get see the growth we see how they get interaction and comments even if you

interaction and comments even if you interaction and comments even if you have the best equipment and that's why I

have the best equipment and that's why I have the best equipment and that's why I stop when you don't have time you just

stop when you don't have time you just stop when you don't have time you just don't say anything if you don't have

don't say anything if you don't have don't say anything if you don't have anything else to say anymore just stop.

anything else to say anymore just stop. anything else to say anymore just stop. Yeah, I think for the people I've talked

Yeah, I think for the people I've talked Yeah, I think for the people I've talked to that wanted to do, let's say, a

to that wanted to do, let's say, a to that wanted to do, let's say, a streaming show or be a live streamer or

streaming show or be a live streamer or streaming show or be a live streamer or even record things on YouTube, I think

even record things on YouTube, I think even record things on YouTube, I think the things that they got paralyzed with

the things that they got paralyzed with the things that they got paralyzed with was that they felt like they needed your

was that they felt like they needed your was that they felt like they needed your setup. They're like, "Oh, people aren't

setup. They're like, "Oh, people aren't setup. They're like, "Oh, people aren't going to watch it if it's not authentic going to watch it if it's not authentic going to watch it if it's not authentic and if it's not the worst one." And for

and if it's not the worst one." And for and if it's not the worst one." And for me, I just say I never would have

me, I just say I never would have me, I just say I never would have started any of this if I actually use

started any of this if I actually use started any of this if I actually use that same logic in my head. My logic was

that same logic in my head. My logic was that same logic in my head. My logic was different. I basically said, "I don't

different. I basically said, "I don't different. I basically said, "I don't care if the first video is horrible. I

care if the first video is horrible. I care if the first video is horrible. I want to document my growth of what we're

want to document my growth of what we're want to document my growth of what we're doing as a company." So if there is

doing as a company." So if there is doing as a company." So if there is success, I've recorded something rather

success, I've recorded something rather success, I've recorded something rather than not having any recordings at all.

than not having any recordings at all. than not having any recordings at all. John, I'm going to tell you something.

John, I'm going to tell you something. John, I'm going to tell you something. My biggest performing video was a video

My biggest performing video was a video My biggest performing video was a video that I destroyed, the color grading. The

that I destroyed, the color grading. The that I destroyed, the color grading. The audio was not coming from the boom mic,

audio was not coming from the boom mic, audio was not coming from the boom mic, but it was coming from the camera

but it was coming from the camera but it was coming from the camera itself. It had 200 300,000 views. And I

itself. It had 200 300,000 views. And I itself. It had 200 300,000 views. And I have video that I spent four days to

have video that I spent four days to have video that I spent four days to create in two different locations with

create in two different locations with create in two different locations with an equipment of an equipment of an equipment of 15,000 and it got 600

15,000 and it got 600 15,000 and it got 600 views. So I believe this answers people

views. So I believe this answers people views. So I believe this answers people that they think a for me in order to

that they think a for me in order to that they think a for me in order to start. The only thing that I can say

start. The only thing that I can say start. The only thing that I can say matters and it's not the quality have a

matters and it's not the quality have a matters and it's not the quality have a studio or a microphone or a studio

studio or a microphone or a studio studio or a microphone or a studio quality but the audio because if an

quality but the audio because if an quality but the audio because if an audio on a video is not good I don't

audio on a video is not good I don't audio on a video is not good I don't think people can follow but again I

think people can follow but again I think people can follow but again I agree captionsh we have captions even on

agree captionsh we have captions even on agree captionsh we have captions even on mute when we scroll on the mobile phone.

mute when we scroll on the mobile phone. mute when we scroll on the mobile phone. Yeah. Just listening to podcasts where

Yeah. Just listening to podcasts where Yeah. Just listening to podcasts where even some of my favorite ones where if

even some of my favorite ones where if even some of my favorite ones where if they have a bad day or whatever, it's

they have a bad day or whatever, it's they have a bad day or whatever, it's the second it doesn't sound good, you

the second it doesn't sound good, you the second it doesn't sound good, you just don't even want to listen to it.

just don't even want to listen to it. just don't even want to listen to it. Exactly. Yeah. A podcast is a different

Exactly. Yeah. A podcast is a different Exactly. Yeah. A podcast is a different story. You need to have a good audit. story. You need to have a good audit. story. You need to have a good audit. You're in. All right. So, we got some

You're in. All right. So, we got some You're in. All right. So, we got some tips for some of my friends who

tips for some of my friends who tips for some of my friends who basically said, "Hey, I want to start a basically said, "Hey, I want to start a basically said, "Hey, I want to start a podcast or a streaming channel." It's

podcast or a streaming channel." It's podcast or a streaming channel." It's look, just do it and figure it out and

look, just do it and figure it out and look, just do it and figure it out and just get feedback.

just get feedback. just get feedback. 100%. Yes. So, if you had to start an

100%. Yes. So, if you had to start an 100%. Yes. So, if you had to start an affiliate site and you had the minimal

affiliate site and you had the minimal affiliate site and you had the minimal budget, let's just say 5,000 euros,

budget, let's just say 5,000 euros, budget, let's just say 5,000 euros, whatever, what does your road map look

whatever, what does your road map look whatever, what does your road map look like? And I know your answer could be

like? And I know your answer could be like? And I know your answer could be you could start as a streaming affiliate

you could start as a streaming affiliate you could start as a streaming affiliate because you've got all that skills, but because you've got all that skills, but because you've got all that skills, but what would you say to the person who's

what would you say to the person who's what would you say to the person who's listening going, "Hey, I want to get listening going, "Hey, I want to get listening going, "Hey, I want to get started." And I I almost want to deter

started." And I I almost want to deter started." And I I almost want to deter them from doing the standard website.

them from doing the standard website. them from doing the standard website. What are your ideas?

What are your ideas? What are your ideas? First of all, before you even start,

First of all, before you even start, First of all, before you even start, think on what you want to

think on what you want to think on what you want to achieve. Because in 2025, if you ask me,

achieve. Because in 2025, if you ask me, achieve. Because in 2025, if you ask me, if you're planning to become one more

if you're planning to become one more if you're planning to become one more affiliate with a domain that is going to

affiliate with a domain that is going to affiliate with a domain that is going to be brand new without authority and you

be brand new without authority and you be brand new without authority and you want to build an empire, let's say, out

want to build an empire, let's say, out want to build an empire, let's say, out of that, I'm not going to say it's not

of that, I'm not going to say it's not of that, I'm not going to say it's not possible, but you need an investor. Yes,

possible, but you need an investor. Yes, possible, but you need an investor. Yes, for sure. because the cost is not going

for sure. because the cost is not going for sure. because the cost is not going to be with just start the website. Also,

to be with just start the website. Also, to be with just start the website. Also, my advice for that for people who are

my advice for that for people who are my advice for that for people who are thinking to create an affiliation

thinking to create an affiliation thinking to create an affiliation business is don't think you can run it

business is don't think you can run it business is don't think you can run it by yourself. Again, I'm not saying there

by yourself. Again, I'm not saying there by yourself. Again, I'm not saying there are not people who are still doing it on

are not people who are still doing it on are not people who are still doing it on different product and they can sell even

different product and they can sell even different product and they can sell even these websites in the future, but it's

these websites in the future, but it's these websites in the future, but it's good to have a team and it's also

good to have a team and it's also good to have a team and it's also something that I admire to you always.

something that I admire to you always. something that I admire to you always. You're not by yourself. You're a team

You're not by yourself. You're a team You're not by yourself. You're a team and this also makes the effort better. I

and this also makes the effort better. I and this also makes the effort better. I would say if you want to focus in SEO

would say if you want to focus in SEO would say if you want to focus in SEO right now because of course you need to

right now because of course you need to right now because of course you need to be holistic how you're going to approach

be holistic how you're going to approach be holistic how you're going to approach that but if you want to go SEO this is

that but if you want to go SEO this is that but if you want to go SEO this is an error that you need to work in all

an error that you need to work in all an error that you need to work in all the verticals. So you need to be very

the verticals. So you need to be very the verticals. So you need to be very careful on the money you spend on your

careful on the money you spend on your careful on the money you spend on your outreach, your off- page strategy, your

outreach, your off- page strategy, your outreach, your off- page strategy, your on page strategy and the content and

on page strategy and the content and on page strategy and the content and also the technical. And when I say

also the technical. And when I say also the technical. And when I say technical SEO, someone who is just going

technical SEO, someone who is just going technical SEO, someone who is just going to start a website, let's face it, it's

to start a website, let's face it, it's to start a website, let's face it, it's going to start with WordPress and a

going to start with WordPress and a going to start with WordPress and a theme, right? It's not going to be so

theme, right? It's not going to be so theme, right? It's not going to be so easy anymore. You need other terms of

easy anymore. You need other terms of easy anymore. You need other terms of strategies in order to run for that

strategies in order to run for that strategies in order to run for that which are not for me to advertise. Nice.

which are not for me to advertise. Nice. which are not for me to advertise. Nice. Nice. Yeah. And it reminds me I had a

Nice. Yeah. And it reminds me I had a Nice. Yeah. And it reminds me I had a chance to talk with one of the biggest

chance to talk with one of the biggest chance to talk with one of the biggest casino affiliates in the space and I

casino affiliates in the space and I casino affiliates in the space and I basically said, "What are you PPC? Are

basically said, "What are you PPC? Are basically said, "What are you PPC? Are you SEO?" And he was like, "SEO and

you SEO?" And he was like, "SEO and you SEO?" And he was like, "SEO and branding." and and I got I basically

branding." and and I got I basically branding." and and I got I basically straight up asked him like, "Why are you straight up asked him like, "Why are you straight up asked him like, "Why are you one of the top three or top five one of the top three or top five one of the top three or top five affiliates when everyone's like

affiliates when everyone's like affiliates when everyone's like celebrating we're number 17 on the top

celebrating we're number 17 on the top celebrating we're number 17 on the top 25 EGR?" He said, "No one has a

25 EGR?" He said, "No one has a 25 EGR?" He said, "No one has a long-term vision in this space." And you

long-term vision in this space." And you long-term vision in this space." And you said that earlier today. It's it's so

said that earlier today. It's it's so said that earlier today. It's it's so true. I think too many affiliates like

true. I think too many affiliates like true. I think too many affiliates like they start with money and they're not they start with money and they're not they start with money and they're not going, "What am I building? Am I going, "What am I building? Am I going, "What am I building? Am I building something that's going to have building something that's going to have building something that's going to have longevity? Is it going to be able to

longevity? Is it going to be able to longevity? Is it going to be able to stand the test of time where Google

stand the test of time where Google stand the test of time where Google isn't friendly? Are you gonna have other

isn't friendly? Are you gonna have other isn't friendly? Are you gonna have other traffic channels that they can just

traffic channels that they can just traffic channels that they can just stand on their own? Correct. I think

stand on their own? Correct. I think stand on their own? Correct. I think it's not a game for all and I gaming

it's not a game for all and I gaming it's not a game for all and I gaming it's a hard industry. It's a very hard

it's a hard industry. It's a very hard it's a hard industry. It's a very hard industry. It needs a lot of effort. It

industry. It needs a lot of effort. It industry. It needs a lot of effort. It needs a lot of time and dedication for

needs a lot of time and dedication for needs a lot of time and dedication for what you do. So we cannot compare. Not

what you do. So we cannot compare. Not what you do. So we cannot compare. Not that the other industries are not hard

that the other industries are not hard that the other industries are not hard workers or they don't work well because

workers or they don't work well because workers or they don't work well because also e-commerce or fintech they're very

also e-commerce or fintech they're very also e-commerce or fintech they're very uh competitive as well. But I gaming

uh competitive as well. But I gaming uh competitive as well. But I gaming it's a and adult in my opinion are two

it's a and adult in my opinion are two it's a and adult in my opinion are two industries industries industries that the white angel and the black

that the white angel and the black that the white angel and the black angel are fighting together all the time

angel are fighting together all the time angel are fighting together all the time for the serves and you need to work a

for the serves and you need to work a for the serves and you need to work a lot with your mind. You need to think

lot with your mind. You need to think lot with your mind. You need to think the next move. You need to have a the next move. You need to have a the next move. You need to have a strategy. You need to have a b c

strategy. You need to have a b c strategy. You need to have a b c different plans to go because also you

different plans to go because also you different plans to go because also you might have created the best OKRs and the

might have created the best OKRs and the might have created the best OKRs and the best KPIs and the best strategy and the

best KPIs and the best strategy and the best KPIs and the best strategy and the best everything and then you get a

best everything and then you get a best everything and then you get a Google update and you have a website

Google update and you have a website Google update and you have a website completely. So what are we doing there?

completely. So what are we doing there? completely. So what are we doing there? We need to go and recover this, right?

We need to go and recover this, right? We need to go and recover this, right? We need to revive. So everything

We need to revive. So everything We need to revive. So everything changes. It's the definition for me of a

changes. It's the definition for me of a changes. It's the definition for me of a fast-paced environment. Okay. And the

fast-paced environment. Okay. And the fast-paced environment. Okay. And the last question is what do you see the

last question is what do you see the last question is what do you see the future of affiliate marketing as it future of affiliate marketing as it future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business intelligence?

intersects with business intelligence? intersects with business intelligence? First of all, I think all the affiliate

First of all, I think all the affiliate First of all, I think all the affiliate companies, they need to understand the

companies, they need to understand the companies, they need to understand the business intelligence first of all

business intelligence first of all business intelligence first of all because I think most of the big

because I think most of the big because I think most of the big companies have BI departments, but I

companies have BI departments, but I companies have BI departments, but I think we're still in a way to understand

think we're still in a way to understand think we're still in a way to understand 100% what we're looking at, right?

100% what we're looking at, right? 100% what we're looking at, right? Because the data gives a lot of answers

Because the data gives a lot of answers Because the data gives a lot of answers on a lot of problems to solve them every

on a lot of problems to solve them every on a lot of problems to solve them every day. But as I said there are a lot of

day. But as I said there are a lot of day. But as I said there are a lot of big companies that they focus on BI but

big companies that they focus on BI but big companies that they focus on BI but it's not something that all the it's not something that all the it's not something that all the companies focusing and I think that

companies focusing and I think that companies focusing and I think that especially BI when it comes to

especially BI when it comes to especially BI when it comes to affiliation and when you want to start

affiliation and when you want to start affiliation and when you want to start let's say as you said with a small let's say as you said with a small let's say as you said with a small budget of 5K you need and this is not an

budget of 5K you need and this is not an budget of 5K you need and this is not an advertise okay like for the audience I

advertise okay like for the audience I advertise okay like for the audience I know you many years to go come here and

know you many years to go come here and know you many years to go come here and advertise but you need products from

advertise but you need products from advertise but you need products from other companies that They offer this

other companies that They offer this other companies that They offer this solution solution solution because in Gen 2 we have a huge

because in Gen 2 we have a huge because in Gen 2 we have a huge department for BI. If you want to create

department for BI. If you want to create department for BI. If you want to create something and to see then you go into

something and to see then you go into something and to see then you go into the SAS way to find a good product and

the SAS way to find a good product and the SAS way to find a good product and start getting the data that you need to

start getting the data that you need to start getting the data that you need to run your business. So for me BI and

run your business. So for me BI and run your business. So for me BI and affiliation and operation and any other

affiliation and operation and any other affiliation and operation and any other industry they're alike. Yeah. My my

industry they're alike. Yeah. My my industry they're alike. Yeah. My my quick take on that is from studying it

quick take on that is from studying it quick take on that is from studying it like being a former affiliate manager

like being a former affiliate manager like being a former affiliate manager and being on the operator side and

and being on the operator side and and being on the operator side and talking to all the affiliate platforms

talking to all the affiliate platforms talking to all the affiliate platforms and operators, it seems that like less

and operators, it seems that like less and operators, it seems that like less than 10% of operators actually have a

than 10% of operators actually have a than 10% of operators actually have a real BI department or a budget or even a

real BI department or a budget or even a real BI department or a budget or even a desire for it. They're not quite sure

desire for it. They're not quite sure desire for it. They're not quite sure what they're looking at. And what we

what they're looking at. And what we what they're looking at. And what we think we've discovered on the affiliate

think we've discovered on the affiliate think we've discovered on the affiliate side is something similar. Affiliates

side is something similar. Affiliates side is something similar. Affiliates want to be more advanced, but it's two

want to be more advanced, but it's two want to be more advanced, but it's two things are getting in the way. things are getting in the way. things are getting in the way. accessibility and in sometimes price

accessibility and in sometimes price accessibility and in sometimes price because they're not sure what you can because they're not sure what you can because they're not sure what you can unlock. It's almost like the whole SEO

unlock. It's almost like the whole SEO unlock. It's almost like the whole SEO dilemma. If I spend money on SEO, I get

dilemma. If I spend money on SEO, I get dilemma. If I spend money on SEO, I get the ROI. Do you spend it in the right

the ROI. Do you spend it in the right the ROI. Do you spend it in the right way with the right person? The answer is

way with the right person? The answer is way with the right person? The answer is yes. And I think people are always

yes. And I think people are always yes. And I think people are always afraid of getting burned. So, I think

afraid of getting burned. So, I think afraid of getting burned. So, I think that stops a lot of companies from

that stops a lot of companies from that stops a lot of companies from taking that risk and investing. And

taking that risk and investing. And taking that risk and investing. And unfortunately, John, with the right

unfortunately, John, with the right unfortunately, John, with the right team, not the right person. Yeah, I'm

team, not the right person. Yeah, I'm team, not the right person. Yeah, I'm saying that saying that saying that again. Especially when you go to a to

again. Especially when you go to a to again. Especially when you go to a to operator or an affiliate one person

operator or an affiliate one person operator or an affiliate one person cannot do everything. Yeah, it's not

cannot do everything. Yeah, it's not cannot do everything. Yeah, it's not possible. Like I see a lot of people

possible. Like I see a lot of people possible. Like I see a lot of people advertising consultant. Okay. But what

advertising consultant. Okay. But what advertising consultant. Okay. But what does consultant mean? Like it means that

does consultant mean? Like it means that does consultant mean? Like it means that you need to do A B C D. Thank you. Uh

you need to do A B C D. Thank you. Uh you need to do A B C D. Thank you. Uh I'm going to send you my invoice.

I'm going to send you my invoice. I'm going to send you my invoice. Especially when we go into things like

Especially when we go into things like Especially when we go into things like SEO or BI. So what is a tracking API?

SEO or BI. So what is a tracking API? SEO or BI. So what is a tracking API? How we track the results? how we're

How we track the results? how we're How we track the results? how we're going to install it. We need devs. We

going to install it. We need devs. We going to install it. We need devs. We need product. We need people to install

need product. We need people to install need product. We need people to install it. Then we need to take care of the

it. Then we need to take care of the it. Then we need to take care of the core web vitals. And then we need to

core web vitals. And then we need to core web vitals. And then we need to connect that with the data and analytics

connect that with the data and analytics connect that with the data and analytics and how we're going to read that. Maybe

and how we're going to read that. Maybe and how we're going to read that. Maybe we need to create an interface as well.

we need to create an interface as well. we need to create an interface as well. So then all of that is a cost. That's

So then all of that is a cost. That's So then all of that is a cost. That's why I said it's not an advertisement,

why I said it's not an advertisement, why I said it's not an advertisement, but solutions like yourself give the

but solutions like yourself give the but solutions like yourself give the data that most of the people at least to

data that most of the people at least to data that most of the people at least to begin with. Yeah.

begin with. Yeah. begin with. Yeah. they can start and then if they are

they can start and then if they are they can start and then if they are clever enough and they want to create

clever enough and they want to create clever enough and they want to create more they can come again to companies

more they can come again to companies more they can come again to companies like yourself and ask you can you help

like yourself and ask you can you help like yourself and ask you can you help me create an in-house tool now for my

me create an in-house tool now for my me create an in-house tool now for my company like I used it's amazing do we

company like I used it's amazing do we company like I used it's amazing do we do you offer any solution to be white

do you offer any solution to be white do you offer any solution to be white labelled for my brand by the way I gave

labelled for my brand by the way I gave labelled for my brand by the way I gave you an idea if you don't have it already

you an idea if you don't have it already you an idea if you don't have it already the white labeling of it that is a

the white labeling of it that is a the white labeling of it that is a possibility we'll have to chat behind

possibility we'll have to chat behind possibility we'll have to chat behind the scenes about all the things that are

the scenes about all the things that are the scenes about all the things that are we're working on and all the different

we're working on and all the different we're working on and all the different types of offers we get. Are they going

types of offers we get. Are they going types of offers we get. Are they going to be purple? Are they going to be to be purple? Are they going to be to be purple? Are they going to be purple? They should be purple. Okay,

purple? They should be purple. Okay, purple? They should be purple. Okay, fair. That that's what I believe. But

fair. That that's what I believe. But fair. That that's what I believe. But Amelio, thank you so much for doing Amelio, thank you so much for doing Amelio, thank you so much for doing this. I want to pass it back to you. How

this. I want to pass it back to you. How this. I want to pass it back to you. How can people get a hold of you if you want

can people get a hold of you if you want can people get a hold of you if you want them to and thank you so much. Thank you

them to and thank you so much. Thank you them to and thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. People can always

so much for having me. People can always so much for having me. People can always reach out to LinkedIn. And the next

reach out to LinkedIn. And the next reach out to LinkedIn. And the next conference I'm going to be is in IGB

conference I'm going to be is in IGB conference I'm going to be is in IGB live in London. And then we have SBC

live in London. And then we have SBC live in London. And then we have SBC Lisbon. I think this year it's time for

Lisbon. I think this year it's time for Lisbon. I think this year it's time for me to go there. Awesome. Then I'll see

me to go there. Awesome. Then I'll see me to go there. Awesome. Then I'll see you at least two more times this year

you at least two more times this year you at least two more times this year then. Yep.

then. Yep. then. Yep. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in to the Thank you for tuning in to the AffiliateBI podcast. I'd like to take

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