What Most Affiliates Get Wrong About SEO — Insights from Gentoo Media's Emilio Takas

First of all, I think all the affiliate companies, they need to understand the business intelligence first of all because I think most of the big companies have BI departments, but I think we're still in a way to understand 100% what we're looking at, right? Because the data gives a lot of answers on a lot of problems to solve them every day. But as I said there are a lot of big companies that they focus on BI but it's not something that all the companies focusing and

I think that especially BI when it comes to affiliation and when you want to start let's say as you said with a small budget of 5K you need and this is not an advertise okay like for the audience I know you many years to go come here and advertise but you need products from other companies that they author this solution because in Gen 2 we have a huge department for BI.

If you want to create something and to see then you go into the SAS way to find a good product and start getting the data that you need to run your business. So for me BI and affiliation and operation and any other industry I like. I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliateBI the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by Stap. Welcome to the AffiliateBI podcast.

Today we're chatting with Emilio Takas who's the head of SEO at Genu. He's an author and he's a speaker at many SEO conferences where I saw him on the big stage at Brighton SEO. Millio, welcome to the show. Hello. Hello. First of all, I need to say we were planning that for more than two years and thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

You're doing an amazing job with this podcast and also to be straight honest with you, you are one of the kindest and one of the best smiles that we see around in conferences whenever we meet. Thank you so much. That means a lot. But now, let's let's flip it around. and I'm here to ask the dumb questions and the smart questions and yeah, just pick your brain.

Okay, perfect. I love it and that's why I'm here. All right, so we're going to go into something that I don't want to say it's too controversial, but it's just want to go deep. So last week I was chatting with an i gaming exec at an affiliate company and I won't mention that person's name or the company but he said he thinks the affiliate segment is shrinking due to SEO and a lot of the public companies they're kind of acknowledging it in their quarterly reports.

So do you think this is unsustainable? Do you agree to disagree? What's your take? First of all we need to understand that affiliation when it comes to I gaming is a totally different thing than operation. Okay. And if we want to be honest, we can say that the way that affiliation was treated until recently, and I say until recently because there are more than five companies, more than three to be more precise, that they understand the infotainment approach of the affiliation.

So if we see just the SEO affiliation with static URLs and static pages that they're pointing into the head homepage of a website and we expect with some tactics with some techniques that we all know the past 15 20 years that it use I don't think it's going to use anymore. I don't think it's gonna be effective because we've seen it all over the podcasts, all over the conferences, all over LinkedIn and the web that there is a very big talk about branding.

But if we analyze what is a brand, first of all, we need to understand what is a long-term and what is a short term of a strategy. And if we go to the back old days of affiliation with the exact match domains for example and we don't have a brand there then we can see where the problem is because we're seeing that on the stats on the analytics on the data of these kind of affiliate websites that they need something else in order to compete.

So if you ask me affiliation like 10 or 15 years ago is this going to be a thing? Yes and no. I'm going to answer and I'm not going to answer as an SEO, but I'm going to tell you that if your goal is a short-term win that we've seen a lot of companies doing that successfully, yes. But if you want a long-term strategy for your business, and I'm talking from I'm coming from a big company that we need to have all our properties and our

brands and as gamblers for example, we can say it's successful and it's going to continue successful. So, it's the brand mode. Okay, I mostly agree where I've talked to a lot of big companies and when they already had a quality approach even before a lot of the the helpful content updates like they weren't really worried before. They did predict that something was going to happen where things wouldn't be as good as they used to be, but they don't seem worried.

I think we're maybe shifting into this new era of quality where like you said, it's like what worked in the past was spray and prey like basic reviews, VPN reviews, casino reviews. We've all seen the affiliates that haven't tried hard but I think we're noticing at the conferences that there seems to be less number of affiliates but the volume doesn't seem to be shrinking when we analyze what we can get our hands on in terms of data.

I can tell you something here. We see in conferences less affiliates. However, these businesses are not closed. Like we can think on the conferences that the stands a lot of the times we don't see like even gen two right now. We don't go to all the conferences with the stand but that doesn't mean that we're not profitable. So it's a different thing on the company the business side of things of a company how they're going to run things if they are active.

And also because I don't want to get wrong, there are people who are working differently in our industry. I'm not saying that affiliation in other terms, I don't want to be very precise, but I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. It's not working, but it's the long-term and the short term. So, I'm not going to say they're not winning because we see the results. We saw also the expired domains that in SERs, we see right now a lot of expired domains ranking up.

We saw the parasite ratio. We have seen a lot of things that is going on. However, it's how your business, how your company builds their strategy and how they move forward. Okay. A question that just popped into my mind was we've seen Google compete with other companies like they're doing it with Kal Kalanly. They've created their own travel site where it's like google.comtravel. So that's what Google's been doing.

They decide if and when they want to jump into a marketplace and say you know what we can just own everything. Do you think with a lot of the companies like Perplexity and Chatbt OpenAI, do you think they're going to be a bit more aggressive and be less friendly towards this affiliation model and say, you know what, if we have the data, why are we actually helping send users to a destination, which is an affiliate site, where there's commission to be made, why don't they just

jump in and just say, hey, we're going to take all of it. To be honest, in order to understand this, we need to see the audience. And we need to analyze the audience that first of all is the audience that converts. And if we go and analyze this, I'm going to say as affiliates, for example, the big players around us, our Gen Z, our millennials, what what is their the profile of the player that we want to meet?

And of course we have AI, we have perplexity and we should have allow our websites to allow the crawls and be indexed. And of course there are a lot of tactics that we are already implementing more than a year on our content on how to be more friendly to AI overviews or to AI tools or how you can appear that we have seen because both we are many years in this industry and we have seen a lot of changes on the trends right like the voice

search you remember voice search when we had first I'm not going to say the name because it's going to start speaking but then we had the structure on the feature snippets and how we're going to answer the features snippets how we're going to do the people also asked there's a brand as well a website about that but then also Google feature that at the bottom I believe it's a trend that it's useful if you know how to use it and also it will help because for

many years we have the zero click strategy and you can implement this strategy on your products as well so I'm not a believer that AI or all these tools are going to steal because I don't think the value of the player the player that we work and we target and we want to focus is not going to use Google or or Bing because also we see a huge increase on Bing as well these days maybe for the next 10 years like I see it or 10

or 20 years I don't think Google is going to miss the game to be honest they have a very big pie of course there are other silver linings like the social media or some other things that you need to have on your strategy but the search do a test let's say you're going going to be in Malta right in June. H do a test. How do you search?

So, everyone has the Chad GPT app on their phone or everyone has perplexity and when they want to search something they go where what is the default on your mobile phone because more than 80% is on the mobile right. So how do you do your search and then casino sports and other verticals how you play on your desktop computer or your mobile phone and what so I think before going into conclusions all the professionals here they need to adapt to the new tools first but also

they need to have a very precise strategy on why they're doing what they're doing and what is their goal what is their vision and what they're aiming Yeah, I I agree because I think at the end of the day, players, it's not like they're going to stop because Google's getting in the way. Like the players are the start and it's like they come in from two destinations.

Either they already have the intent and they're ready to go. Maybe it's because of TV ads or it's because of accidental because someone's they're on Facebook and someone creates an ad and yeah, they get bored and they click on it. Do you think operators stand a chance to benefit from this new era where AI's kind of disrupted a lot of things? Google just disrupted and the players might actually find less shortcuts from the affiliate site and just go right to the operator.

the operator. First of all, we've seen that a lot of operators, they're focusing an issue right now. Something that we didn't see in the past years. And for me, that's good to be honest because there is a different value when you as an operator, you're doing SEO. And there is a different value where you as an affiliate, me as an affiliate, we're doing SEO. Okay? It's a different intent on why we're doing that.

I believe that it's good for operators. They have something that we mentioned before. They have a huge brand and they have a very good name and authority and I talk now for big operators in both regulated or unregulated or gray as they say in markets. But the thing is that the brand it's very difficult to fight if you have h but I don't think that it's something that needs to be considered as a fight.

Me personally, John, I think that everything has its spot. And in affiliation, let's be honest, when you're an operator, there is a limit. There is a limit per market. There is a limit per player value. There are limits. When you're an affiliate, there are no limits. And let's face it, true. I interviewed a guy who's an SEO, Mark Preston, and he said, like I asked him like, "What would you do if you had an affiliate site?" Or, "What are things that you see affiliates don't do

enough of?" And one thing that he said that was strong on his list was he just said, "People aren't really doing surveys. They're not asking their customer like, "Hey, how are we doing? What are you interested in?" If you think about all the times that we've all done our own research and said, "Okay, let me sign up to Ask Damage Casino Meister, Casino Guru because I want to test out like what are they sending me as a player that does complaints?" I find this rare.

It's I think no one's really asking their customers like tell us some info. Like there's a lot of data there. What's your thoughts on this whole concept? Should we do more of this? Yes and no. And I'm going to tell you why. It's not very easy. because the visitors that you're going to get on a website, they're not willingly free or give you the time to answer that.

For example, there are techniques that you can do a giveaway, you can offer a present or an award for that, to take what they think of your product. But let's face it, users right now to play to to spend their time, you need to give them some, right? So everything is back on what we discussed a little bit before the profile, the character that you're targeting and you're aiming and you should do this strategy so you know what the players want and of course that separates

what's because you mentioned two of the websites right in my company but as gamblers and casino but you know what the very powerful thing that we need to consider right now is how we want to work. So for me if someone asked me what is something that is missing and I see to youngsters I see to young generation that they do that and most of my age the 40 plus guys they seem to not focusing so much is fight for ranking fight to rank like we

seen people that they fight to rank that's their goal not create all these fancy things that we read on the theory which by the way they work. Okay, but do you fight to rank? Do you have goals? Let's go. Top five, top three. Let's go number two. Let's go number one now. Let's fight for that. I don't see it very often to be honest. And I see it more on the younger generations that there are with other ways, but they're doing it.

They're fighting. Okay. I want to go back into a concept where a lot of people say our eye gaming industry is not very good with ideas mostly because we've had a lot of money to be able to buy our way to success whether it's SEO on the affiliate side or operators simply just relying on SEO traffic. What do you think our people could do better of both on the affiliate and operator side when it comes to content?

Like we've seen what is the old playbook. It's like just create anything, throw it on the wall, do languages, build links. What is wrong with content today or what could people do? do? First let me tell you something that I hear in my opinion operators they don't rely only on SEO because good operators they cover all the verticals right so they have affiliation as well we are in the affiliate BI right podcast and affiliation is a huge vertical and also we have SEO we have social

media we have PPC etc. Now when it comes to content, unfortunately and I personally saw a lot of content agencies and a lot of content people relying on AI creation without a purpose and without a reason. Does it work in some markets? Yeah. Does it work? Does it work in the competitive markets? We've seen it happening. Does it last? So far, no. But of course, I cannot say what's going to happen next.

But I'm going to tell you this. me or you as a player that you search for something. Do you really want to see another review that it's a templated review on an affiliate that tells you this is for example John Wright and it's that years these are the payment methods these are the games give you some game reviews as well and that's it. So as I said it's very different thing to to start thinking how I'm going to be different how I'm going to succeed as

gamblers for example what they did was innovating and now we're waiting to see what is the next thing of innovation right because even applications right now we have applications that they're successful so they need to focus on the content on how even if they use some AI tools how they're gonna become become become unique. But again, I'm going to tell you something. I might seem like an old guy on the on the on the audience.

I'm always focusing on the long term and I cannot tell you that I don't know or when I was young as well, I didn't try the short terms. But when you have to create a strategy and when there are a lot of people relying in a company and families and their lives basically you need to think of ways that you're going to be innovate. You're innovative. You're going to be entertaining for the audience because also the audience needs to be entertained.

You need to be very good informative. So the information you give is clear compliant like you give all the truth on that and you need to make sure that after all it's a game right so people come and they need to know precisely and also enjoy a little bit the process always responsibly but enjoy the process. Yeah I circle back. Go ahead. ahead. ahead. Sorry, but casino it's one of the sections that you know I like right but sports is my law and you can say

that from how I talk right now for the players for the enjoyment for how fun it relates a lot to the sports. Yeah, I could spoke I could speak hours for sports I agree. It's like I started in the industry as a bonus hunter playing casinos but sports betting and poker for me was more fun. But casinos, it's like I did the affiliate game back in the day and I was like, "All right, this is easy.

Just write casino reviews. Wasn't very fun to build them." But I think this was a lot of affiliates back in the day. It's make money, but no one's really putting a bit of fun or what I was going to get to is products and data. Like I think the new era of affiliates is going to be what you said earlier, info infotainment. It's either going to educate or entertain.

Pick one or the other or both. But I think a lot of the old affiliate sites were they just weren't doing any of that. That is exactly what I said when I what I meant when I said that also the affiliates need to have a more holistic approach on the strategy because I'm not going to mention now names of the companies but we've seen how websites they're aligning with YouTube channels they're aligning with tweets or other live streaming services.

They're are aligning with social media with Telegram. a lot of things and they build all of this infotainment for the audience. If you don't go that way and if you don't start investing on that and start creating it correctly, then it's a little bit more hard and then of course I'm going to have people telling me, "Come on, man. How we're going to do it in casino?

How what is the things that we can do from casino?" Because also the Ramstein era of playing slots, yeah, it's declining as well for some. So no, everyone is going to be like that to have someone play online slots for example or online casino. But the thing is again this is where we need all of us to think on how we can make this and this industry look better and if you ask me to not get boring because yeah this is something that frustrates me a

lot to think that I'm boring. I'm boring. Yeah, we were chatting about this concept where where's the space going? Is it going to be more operators that create their affiliate division or is it affiliates that are just going to go forward? So, I do think operators are probably going to jump more into the affiliate space where they just understand the business better. But do you think that with tools like dynamic variables where you can actually own the player?

So, for example, rather than taking your newsletter database, whether it's ask it, it doesn't matter. You send each player a unique click ID and you basically track their revenue activity such that whenever they churn for however whatever reason they churn you can basically say you know what I know what kind of player you are you become the VIP manager and you can go back to them and say okay I've got the next click ID to the next brand ready to go.

Do you think this potentially could do two things where gives more power to the affiliate in owning the player and it creates more incentives for affiliates to productize what they have because you can't just be the SEO site that has traffic in click on the link and you're gone. It's I need to intercept and interact. This is the whole fight. This is what we're all aiming to be honest.

How we keep this player and how we keep this visitor. on your question. I think that the reality is basically the opposite that we see a lot of affiliates creating their own brands right now and there are a lot of affiliates that they go and create white labelled or a brand we've seen it in many markets of course operators they have the big operators they have very good relationships with the big affiliates so why go for example and create an affiliate network maybe we're going to

see M&A's We might or we might see big players combine their power together, but I would focus more on the affiliates becoming operators as well. Okay. And then in terms of just the M&A talks, like when I start looking at what types of sites are being acquired, my opinion is it's more productl like sites like we saw as gamblers casino meister, we saw gambling.com pick up odds jam and I'm like these have SEO power because they're products.

But I actually think that the new era is moving towards this product concept. So do you think M&A is going to get stronger and we're going to see this continuation where it's less affiliates but it's going to be more of a quality concept behind everything. Not only quality concept because something that I experienced it myself and I can share it with you quality people. Yes. Because when we have acquisitions you also acquire very good quality of people in your team.

And I think this is the strongest asset on acquisitions where companies buy other companies but they don't also you know throw the people of the company they acquired. I experienced it. I still like very big parts of my team are coming from an acquisition. I'm very proud of them and I think I'm very happy and lucky that I met them and I work. So for me acquisitions it's something that for those who are in this game on the companies it needs a very careful consideration because

you can make it or break it and we've seen it as well doing an acquisition that it went south it didn't work well but of course it helps a lot on strength strengthen company. Yeah. And maybe that we're going to see more people be a bit more have higher scrutiny when it comes to acquiring assets where like you said it's not about the IP itself. The people is a big part of it.

Of course for for me I'm also watching Ted Lasso lately and now I started it. Okay. Good show. And I'm more of a people focused person to be honest because if you can build a good team then you can aim and you can fight for everything. So, if you don't have the people, if you don't have the culture, if you don't have the locker room, as we say, if you lose the locker room, you're out.

Yeah. And I won't get into too much conversation about a single bad apple can really drag a team down. Exactly. Exactly. So, that's non-negotiable for what we do in our company. What's the saying? It's higher fire fast and hire slow. Correct. Yeah. So, so you avoid bad days to be honest. It's the only way to avoid bad days. Yeah. And bad sleep, too. All right. So, let's quickly chat about your You have the best audio and video setup I've ever seen.

When I was doing research, okay, let's look up Amelio and be like, saw you speak on Brightness SEO, but then I was like, your YouTube channel has channel has channel has 36.6K followers. I know it's a lot of video and audio stuff, but just tell us about that. Clearly, it's a hobby, but I think it really benefits your personal brand and it gives you the power to do whatever the hell you want.

So, I'm gonna tell you something. Me as a person, something that the people close to me know, the people that they're not close to me, they don't know is that I started when I was 7 years old with guitar as a musician and also photography and videography like my father had a VHS video camera. I started document everything. Photography and videography and music for me was always my passion and my love.

But also I was lucky enough to have a father who was working in the Greek telecommunication company and I had one of the pilot PSTN line connections that I learned internet from when it was founded. Imagine I was doing a I was searching things in Alta Vista way before Google. So all of that it came and combined together to creating creating creating websites, doing SEO, analyzing data, but also never forget your creative perspective of your personality.

And I believe it was about a year before the quarantine, I had a conversation with some friends and I was like, I'm going to create a YouTube channel and I'm going to put a goal to see how far I can reach it. what I want to do. I want to teach things. So, let me teach and I didn't start with SEO or digital marketing because to be honest, I teach SEO on the University of Athens and economics and business on a master because I like to

teach young people, but I cannot tell you that I'm the guy or the person who wants to give all the knowledge on you. You get my point because this is how I feed my family, my my daughter. This is my job. But on video editing, I could teach what I knew because I'm not an experienced a professional video editor with editing the Netflix movies or on the cinemas.

And also, I like cameras. I like lighting. As you see, I like audio. And I wanted to show through my YouTube channel how someone who doesn't have big experience and without a very big budget can create something like that. It started to be honest as a joke. it got picked by the holy algorithm as we all change a lot of the times. However, when my daughter was came, she came to life.

I didn't have the time anymore to continue. And that's why if someone goes into my YouTube channel, he's going to say, "Where is this guy? Why did he stop?" Because as you saw, it was my hobby. However, this gives me the freedom and the opportunity whenever I'm on a podcast or the audience see like different things that wait a minute, this is not a camera from a Mac.

What's going on here? And it's hilarious because I'm using an Elgato camera. So, it's like I'm not using my MacBook camera, but I also know it's not the next level. But for me, I wanted to get started and not drop an insane amount of money. So, you hear all the stories about people that they spend too much money on gear and then they don't do the first recording.

And for me, like I I know I I listen to some of your comments on your first videos. You're like, they're bad, but you need the bad before you get started. And for me, I was like, screw it. Let's just Can I give one advice to the audience? Yes. This is the best camera you can have. Ah, no branding. But this is your mobile phone. The phone that you carry every day with you.

And it's a device that has amazing capabilities on just start and as as of the audio this is more of people with OCD like me. I want to have the nice voice because I'm going to be on a podcast and I remember I had created a podcast with on the creator economy with two YouTubers and we were inviting on the show other YouTubers on the creative photography videography with one two three five millions and we were all like cameras, lenses, lighting the I was laughing so

far like people are going to see our podcast and are going to say what are they doing in their offices concern the homes what are they building there? But if you want to start something and if you have something to say just say with your mobile and we see that on LinkedIn to be honest a lot of people sharing things just with a mobile phone and we see the growth we see how they get interaction and comments even if you have the best equipment and that's

why I stop when you don't have time you just don't say anything if you don't have anything else to say anymore just stop. Yeah, I think for the people I've talked to that wanted to do, let's say, a streaming show or be a live streamer or even record things on YouTube, I think the things that they got paralyzed with was that they felt like they needed your setup.

They're like, "Oh, people aren't going to watch it if it's not authentic and if it's not the worst one." And for me, I just say I never would have started any of this if I actually use that same logic in my head. My logic was different. I basically said, "I don't care if the first video is horrible. I want to document my growth of what we're doing as a company." So if there is success, I've recorded something rather than not having any recordings at all.

John, I'm going to tell you something. My biggest performing video was a video that I destroyed, the color grading. The audio was not coming from the boom mic, but it was coming from the camera itself. It had 200 300,000 views. And I have video that I spent four days to create in two different locations with an equipment of 15,000 and it got 600 views. So I believe this answers people that they think a for me in order to start.

The only thing that I can say matters and it's not the quality have a studio or a microphone or a studio quality but the audio because if an audio on a video is not good I don't think people can follow but again I agree captionsh we have captions even on mute when we scroll on the mobile phone. Yeah. Just listening to podcasts where even some of my favorite ones where if they have a bad day or whatever, it's the second it doesn't sound good, you just

don't even want to listen to it. Exactly. Yeah. A podcast is a different story. You need to have a good audit. You're in. All right. So, we got some tips for some of my friends who basically said, "Hey, I want to start a podcast or a streaming channel." It's look, just do it and figure it out and just get feedback. 100%. Yes. So, if you had to start an affiliate site and you had the minimal budget, let's just say 5,000 euros, whatever, what does your road

map look like? And I know your answer could be you could start as a streaming affiliate because you've got all that skills, but what would you say to the person who's listening going, "Hey, I want to get started." And I I almost want to deter them from doing the standard website. What are your ideas? First of all, before you even start, think on what you want to achieve.

Because in 2025, if you ask me, if you're planning to become one more affiliate with a domain that is going to be brand new without authority and you want to build an empire, let's say, out of that, I'm not going to say it's not possible, but you need an investor. Yes, for sure. because the cost is not going to be with just start the website. Also, my advice for that for people who are thinking to create an affiliation business is don't think you can run it

by yourself. Again, I'm not saying there are not people who are still doing it on different product and they can sell even these websites in the future, but it's good to have a team and it's also something that I admire to you always. You're not by yourself. You're a team and this also makes the effort better. I would say if you want to focus in SEO right now because of course you need to be holistic how you're going to approach that but if you want to

go SEO this is an error that you need to work in all the verticals. So you need to be very careful on the money you spend on your outreach, your off- page strategy, your on page strategy and the content and also the technical. And when I say technical SEO, someone who is just going to start a website, let's face it, it's going to start with WordPress and a theme, right?

It's not going to be so easy anymore. You need other terms of strategies in order to run for that which are not for me to advertise. Nice. Nice. Yeah. And it reminds me I had a chance to talk with one of the biggest casino affiliates in the space and I basically said, "What are you PPC? Are you SEO?" And he was like, "SEO and branding." and and I got I basically straight up asked him like, "Why are you one of the top three or top five

affiliates when everyone's like celebrating we're number 17 on the top 25 EGR?" He said, "No one has a long-term vision in this space." And you said that earlier today. It's it's so true. I think too many affiliates like they start with money and they're not going, "What am I building? Am I building something that's going to have longevity? Is it going to be able to stand the test of time where Google isn't friendly?

Are you gonna have other traffic channels that they can just stand on their own? Correct. I think it's not a game for all and I gaming it's a hard industry. It's a very hard industry. It needs a lot of effort. It needs a lot of time and dedication for what you do. So we cannot compare. Not that the other industries are not hard workers or they don't work well because also e-commerce or fintech they're very uh competitive as well.

But I gaming it's a and adult in my opinion are two industries industries industries that the white angel and the black angel are fighting together all the time for the serves and you need to work a lot with your mind. You need to think the next move. You need to have a strategy. You need to have a b c different plans to go because also you might have created the best OKRs and the best KPIs and the best strategy and the best everything and then you

get a Google update and you have a website completely. So what are we doing there? We need to go and recover this, right? We need to revive. So everything changes. It's the definition for me of a fast-paced environment. Okay. And the last question is what do you see the future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business intelligence? First of all, I think all the affiliate companies, they need to understand the business intelligence first of all because I think most of the big companies have BI

departments, but I think we're still in a way to understand 100% what we're looking at, right? Because the data gives a lot of answers on a lot of problems to solve them every day. But as I said there are a lot of big companies that they focus on BI but it's not something that all the companies focusing and I think that especially BI when it comes to affiliation and when you want to start let's say as you said with a small budget of 5K you need

and this is not an advertise okay like for the audience I know you many years to go come here and advertise but you need products from other companies that They offer this solution solution solution because in Gen 2 we have a huge department for BI. If you want to create something and to see then you go into the SAS way to find a good product and start getting the data that you need to run your business.

So for me BI and affiliation and operation and any other industry they're alike. Yeah. My my quick take on that is from studying it like being a former affiliate manager and being on the operator side and talking to all the affiliate platforms and operators, it seems that like less than 10% of operators actually have a real BI department or a budget or even a desire for it.

They're not quite sure what they're looking at. And what we think we've discovered on the affiliate side is something similar. Affiliates want to be more advanced, but it's two things are getting in the way. accessibility and in sometimes price because they're not sure what you can unlock. It's almost like the whole SEO dilemma. If I spend money on SEO, I get the ROI. Do you spend it in the right way with the right person?

The answer is yes. And I think people are always afraid of getting burned. So, I think that stops a lot of companies from taking that risk and investing. And unfortunately, John, with the right team, not the right person. Yeah, I'm saying that saying that saying that again. Especially when you go to a to operator or an affiliate one person cannot do everything. Yeah, it's not possible. Like I see a lot of people advertising consultant.

Okay. But what does consultant mean? Like it means that you need to do A B C D. Thank you. Uh I'm going to send you my invoice. Especially when we go into things like SEO or BI. So what is a tracking API? How we track the results? how we're going to install it. We need devs. We need product. We need people to install it. Then we need to take care of the core web vitals.

And then we need to connect that with the data and analytics and how we're going to read that. Maybe we need to create an interface as well. So then all of that is a cost. That's why I said it's not an advertisement, but solutions like yourself give the data that most of the people at least to begin with. Yeah. they can start and then if they are clever enough and they want to create more they can come again to companies like yourself and ask you can

you help me create an in-house tool now for my company like I used it's amazing do we do you offer any solution to be white labelled for my brand by the way I gave you an idea if you don't have it already the white labeling of it that is a possibility we'll have to chat behind the scenes about all the things that are we're working on and all the different types of offers we get.

Are they going to be purple? They should be purple. Okay, fair. That that's what I believe. But Amelio, thank you so much for doing this. I want to pass it back to you. How can people get a hold of you if you want them to and thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. People can always reach out to LinkedIn. And the next conference I'm going to be is in IGB live in London.

And then we have SBC Lisbon. I think this year it's time for me to go there. Awesome. Then I'll see you at least two more times this year then. Yep. then. Yep. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the AffiliateBI podcast. I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast.

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