Data literacy in affiliate marketing with Michael Filletti

Show: Revenue Optimization with StatsDrone
Episode: Data literacy in affiliate marketing with Michael Filletti
Host: John Wright
Guest: Michael Filletti
Published: Wed, 15 May 2024 05:38:00 +0000
Duration: 29:04

Speaker labels are a two-speaker split from pauses (host vs guest). Timestamps are `[HH:MM:SS]` from the episode audio. Light ASR; names and brands may need a pass.

---

[00:00:00] John Wright: It sounds very boring, right? As in who cares? But the data literacy is becoming more and more important. So as in even affiliation, we're seeing steps made forward with data. So the rest of the world is moving forward with data and it's becoming really important to understand the data put in front of you. I've seen it in my post as well. The strongest affiliate managers that I've worked with and that I've seen also move up the ladder are the ones that knew how to analyze data. They knew to see player data, to see player value and all of this stuff. They use data. And I think it's going to be a really valuable skill to have.

[00:00:39] Michael Filletti: I'm John Wright and we're listening to Affiliate BI, the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by StatsGum.

[00:00:50] John Wright: Welcome to the affiliate BI podcast. Today we're chatting with Michael Felitti, who is the co-founder of Routy or rather Routy.app and he's held previous eye roles at Chiliz and was also BI analyst at Katana Media. Michael, welcome to the show.

[00:01:05] John Wright: Thank you. Thanks for having me. So I want to go to your education where I know you studied math and statistics and you got a bachelor's degree and then you studied AI and I want to take this opportunity to ask like, where do you see the data space going with everything happening in AI?

[00:01:24] Michael Filletti: Yeah. So it's a good, it's a very good question. So in terms of AI, yeah, like you mentioned, I studied it, I think back in 2018, I started studying it and I remember having a conversation with my fiance sister was also like into AI and tech and whatnot. I remember us saying these like these movies where AI takes over and whatnot. They're so unrealistic. Like AI back then felt very basic, very, I won't say stupid, but not that advanced, let's say. And to be honest, the year is off, the chat GPT and where we are now is shopping boom, the speed at which it's evolved is nuts. And I know you have, you actually have a question about it. I'm probably going to start with it. I think it's going to shake up the space a lot.

[00:02:03] Michael Filletti: Even rows like mine as a data analyst. I remember I tried it like a year ago. I gave like a CSV pilot to GPT three and I saw what it would do with it. Then I started asking it questions of, okay, I don't know what's the average of this, which row has the highest, whatever, height, whatever. And then it was all inserting them. And that was GPT three, which now poor came out five is apparently going to be even stronger. It's going to, it's going to shake up.

[00:02:29] Michael Filletti: It's going to shake up a lot for us. It's, we're still we're far behind that, but, but in our industry, but yeah, it's a game, it's a game changer. Yeah. So let's take a step back of, I want to know how you got it started into the eye gaming space. It goes with it saying being in Malta is pretty much the eye gaming capital of the world. So how did this all get started?

[00:02:49] Michael Filletti: Yeah. So I started, so like I mentioned, I graduated and met some statistics in my third year. I had the opportunity to be an intern at Bitcin. So I spent three months working there. And that was, let's say my first experience in eye gaming. Then after I graduated, got two years at a software company. And after that one closed down, I was like, okay, I was still very young. I was like, it's an opportunity. And I spent my time off actually studying data science as well.

[00:03:18] Michael Filletti: And anyways, this role came up at Katenna Media as a data analyst. I said, okay, let's go for the interview. Let's give it a go. And then I got the role there. And yeah, that basically introduced me to affiliation. So yeah, I've been in the space. So I was on the operator side for just three months. I was an intern. So it was very little if anything at all. But yeah, I've been in affiliation now for seven years. Hell, the role actually. So I also touched crypto, but I was doing some affiliate stuff at the side. As well. Yeah. It's a gaming and mortar is huge, right? As in there's companies left from center and it's very important for the economy. For us. So yeah, it's, let's say how I got into it. And I haven't looked back ever since.

[00:03:56] Michael Filletti: But we know that you've got all this experience on the affiliate side. And I know we share the same story as being SAS founders. So I wanted to ask, what was unexpected that when you decided to take on a rowdy as a project that you weren't prepared for? Yeah. It's a good, it's a good question. I think for me, I don't know about you, but the mental side was something which I didn't, I didn't expect the challenges that you feel mentally, those were a surprise, I'm not sure if you had the same thing. Yeah. But it was, that was maybe the shock of it because the work obviously you need to work a lot and whatnot, but that's one I was okay with. And, but I didn't expect.

[00:04:34] Michael Filletti: Let's say the lows to be like they do the questioning. I feel like I grew a lot as a person. Let's say in the last couple of years or so, it's so different. I don't know how long ago did you have a nine to five job though, to be fair. I've never, it's been 20 years since a university. So one, I don't have that, that, that experience, but I can't tell you. And taking on this project with Statstrong, I feel like I've gone into the deep end. Doing affiliate sites was like, oh, it's easy and you can coast because there's, you just make money just by existing, but that was really hard. I like, when I started this, I just thought, okay, we're going to launch the app. And then the fillets are going to come to us.

[00:05:13] Michael Filletti: This is another question we're going to get into, but yeah. What you said is what I feel it's, it's hard. It tests you. The lows are not fun at all. And it changes you as a person and, you know, builds a lot of character. Yeah, for sure. Sure. I'm curious actually about that. Why, so you felt as an affiliate, so you felt different. Like it wasn't like being like working on a SaaS. No, it's not the same. It's with the SaaS, it's you have to do even more, like all the jobs that you could actually write down, you're like, I have to do unless you raise so much money that you can literally just, you know, assign people those jobs. It's even if you have that opportunity, it's that's still a lot of work.

[00:05:49] Michael Filletti: You're now getting into, okay, I got to build a team and, um, everything was just so different, go to market, B2B, SEO. It's like social media. It's like all the things that you never really had to do as affiliates, where you could just say, what is affiliation? SEO and writing content, right. It can be easy from that point of view. Yeah. It's, I wanted to ask that question cause it's, I think maybe, you feel the same now it's like you gravitate towards SaaS founders cause we have these battle stories that we can. Yeah, for sure. Not it's a huge, it's a huge challenge. I think there's also, uh, maybe the difference as well between, I wasn't an affiliate, Chaim was an affiliate. So he can, he could say better than me, but maybe it's also the fact that

[00:06:29] Michael Filletti: since we're B2B as well, there's more of the steeple aspect to it as well. So you're managing lots of relationships as well with your clients. Obviously you want to make sure that they're happy and all of this stuff. Maybe there's also a bit of a different dynamic around it. Yeah. It's it's for me, it's the mental challenge, which I didn't, which I didn't expect. Um, and also the, I knew I was going to learn, I knew I was going to grow, um, but I didn't expect to learn and to grow that much. And somehow I had this idea that when you go into business, everything's going to go perfect. Everything's going to be like this. That's always like going up. And this was like, this was again, related to the mental side of things. There are tough times. There are times when yeah, you feel great.

[00:07:07] Michael Filletti: You're doing really well, but there are also tougher times. This was the big surprise. And I'm actually surprised that was an affiliate. So you didn't feel it at all. That's that's interesting. Yeah. It's I think different circumstances. It's what you said is what I feel as well. It's, I thought it was going to be not as much work, not as difficult. Like I did think the project was going to be challenging, but this was multiple times more challenging than what I signed up for. But yeah, wouldn't change the thing. Yeah, exactly. No, for sure. Absolutely. And yeah, it's funny that you mentioned, yeah, even me, I had this idea that, you know, look, we have an amazing product, obviously affiliates. They're going to be lining up, you know, as in, uh, we're going to

[00:07:45] Michael Filletti: get like a request, like a cold cue. This was always so like a surprise because I'm like, it's obvious, no. But yeah, over, over time I learned that, okay, actually, no, it's totally different, you need to push, like you need to go to them and that's something that you've been doing really well. This, that was also like a surprise for me, which I learned very quickly to be fair. But I didn't expect, I didn't expect that affiliates would be again, like you said, it's one of the questions would be so problem aware and so not a solution aware. Yeah, there's a problem.

[00:08:17] John Wright: That's it.

[00:08:19] Michael Filletti: Yeah. We'll definitely get into that very soon. So the next question is we've obviously, we met up last month in Malta and we were talking about affiliate networks and the strong interest in them. And I just wanted to ask, do you think the tools that we build, especially with you on rowdy would be very interesting enough in an affiliate network and I think if affiliate networks are going to get stronger, maybe they're the ones that also needs access to some of these tools.

[00:08:47] Michael Filletti: Yeah, I think so, to be honest, I read your article as well, actually about it, that you posted a couple of weeks ago, something there. And you mentioned as well, you mentioned, and even we have the same thing where you have a network using you guys and obviously clients of a network as well. And we said the same thing, which for me, even just thinking logically surely puts us in a position of strength. Okay. There's a clear need, right? There's this middle man in the middle and middle man in the middle.

[00:09:13] John Wright: It was well saying, and yeah, I think it's, I think it's something which is coming, let's say, I think that tools like ours, it's going to, it's going to come to this wave of, let's say networks using a deeper BI tools for sure.

[00:09:30] Michael Filletti: I don't know how optimized to be honest, the networks are, but I believe that it's just a matter of time, right? With affiliates and again, with network, not sure what you think about it.

[00:09:41] Michael Filletti: Yeah. It's actually think most affiliate networks don't have advanced tools at all. Just look at what it's like dealing with an operator or an affiliate manager and going, what tools do they have? I've asked them questions like, do you know the conversion rate of all your landing pages and they say, yes. And then I say, would you like an audit of that? And they also say, yes. I'm like, you can't have both, but it's never asked for an audit. If you knew the congruence or landing pages. So I actually believe just from digging into some affiliate networks, it's like, what do they have? They have tracking links. Okay. We all need that. And they have banners and it's what can you do with the tracking link? Like when's the last time an affiliate network has gone to you and said, we

[00:10:20] Michael Filletti: actually have more optimized landing pages and better tracking links, or here's best practices of how to like split test your tracking links or segment. And then I think with, with tools like what you do, from my understanding is that you can actually do attribution down to the click level of knowing where it goes on the pages. And I think this data is going to be super valuable for optimizing. That's not even including AI optimization. That's just basic, you know, BI analysts looking at this going, we can make more money out of this. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I think, yeah, the rise just feels like there's a bit of a rise in Netflix writers and there's more of a chat about them, these lots of

[00:10:59] Michael Filletti: companies are launching their own networks. So it's something that we can see. Like I said, I think that the fact that we have clients who are both networks and both users of networks for me puts us like in a clearly, there's a clear need for this. Maybe the next question might push that into the territory where it's like, how do they become aware of us? So as competitors, we're not always supposed to help each other, but at the same time, I believe that affiliates are problem aware, but not solution aware. And there's that saying, what is it? Rising tides lift all boats.

[00:11:34] Michael Filletti: I think it's maybe one or 2% of affiliates globally will use tools like ours, like Routy or Nifty stats or Vunix. Sometimes we're even seeing them use them, using them combined. Like they're using, let's say, Routy plus Vunix or Routy plus Nifty stats. Um, so what do you think about, how do we get this industry to know that there are solutions to these problems?

[00:11:58] John Wright: Ah, so very good. I think it's the question, right? Because yeah, I totally agree. I think that a very small percentage of affiliates know about us. Yeah. The way, I think it's all about how you package the problem and the solution for them with the affiliates. It's a bit, it's a bit funny, right? It's the data is so valuable to them.

[00:12:19] Michael Filletti: But like the way that they get it is so, Jesus, we have just out of cure the bulk or how many affiliates do you think like log into this, their programs daily and pull data from there? That is, obviously that is a good number of, that have a good number of accounts. So I'm not saying like they have just, just one, just one account. Cause then that makes sense, obviously. But I'm saying like 20 accounts, they log in every day, because I think it's a lot of them. Yeah. It's, it's for sure not every day. Like we know some of them. If you've got 20 accounts, that's easier to quickly go click. There's ones, there's affiliates that will go in, do that manually, record some of the data in an Excel sheet or whatever, and then they'll be okay.

[00:12:59] Michael Filletti: Whatever. They just assume it's part of their day in and day out. And then we know there's other affiliates that probably do it a couple of times a month. We know what it's like talking to some of them and ask him like, how much time do you spend doing this? And sometimes the answer is a couple of days before end of the month. And you're like, really? This is not that important to you. And then the other part of it is saving the data. Unless you're downloading this as a CSV, that's one issue. The next one, which we know to be true is everyone can build their own API system. But we know that people have tried that and they run into the roadblock, which is why we exist. It's wait a minute, the data's not as perfect as it should be. Why is that?

[00:13:38] Michael Filletti: We go fix it and we make it accurate. And then we realize that companies also don't want to do this.

[00:13:44] John Wright: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think it's, yeah, it's a massive, it's a massive issue in the space, which to be fair, I feel like I've been in the space a lot less time than you have, but even I see the change from 2018 to now, I feel like there's more of a demand for it. Yeah. I think there's still far more like a problem aware for sure. As in they're like, okay, there's a problem there, but we live with it. But the space is getting more, more competitive. I feel it's becoming more, more savvy. We see it even with art where like they're asking for more, which is great. That's what we want, but we are there for behind to where we need to get to.

[00:14:24] John Wright: But again, it's like a snowball, right? It only starts off small and slowly and then everything speeds up. This is hopefully the way that we'll go. I think there's a lot of things going on right now in the space, but the people who take advantage of the data. Again, imagine you, you pull your data.

[00:14:42] John Wright: Manually every day, right? You're losing a few hours a day for what you can do it easily getting this edge. So for example, like you mentioned, okay, we give you a page level insights, being able to see, okay, this brand is top of my top list. I've got a thousand clicks on them, but no conversions. Something's wrong.

[00:15:02] John Wright: Let me switch and put another brand on boom. And all of a sudden I'm making an extra 5k, for example. These are insights that the affiliates that take advantage of them. It's a game changer. That's what's going to put you ahead.

[00:15:15] John Wright: It takes time, but I'm hoping that we get there, but that's what I mean. When I say we're far away from AI.

[00:15:20] Michael Filletti: Yeah, there's a possibility for it, but I think we're still maybe a bit away from that when you almost go through the steps. It's like we're still in the 2000s with our space. Yeah. I think what the situation is, I know that ever since COVID happened, the interest in B2B companies just basically increased like anything that had to do with data, even the affiliate software, like affiliate platform, affiliate programming, affiliate network software. So they were just considered as real B2B, boring to boring. And all of a sudden it's like, I think you just walked into this at the perfect time when the interest was just starting to get off the ground. And I think the only thing we can do at this point is just be

[00:16:00] Michael Filletti: noisier in the media, do things like this, where we have podcasts and going, Oh, I've never heard about these tools before. You must hear about this sometimes where it's, I've never heard about you. And you're like, it's perfect. But you're like, why haven't you heard about us? Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, for sure. This is, I think it's, like I said, it's improving, but yeah, the amount of knowledge that there is about us is still very, very low. So let's see how it develops. You're doing a great job of shouting about stuff. I think so. So I think it's, it's getting there, but yeah, take style. Take style. We'll definitely have to chat in person and go, what are the things we can do as, as competitors that kind of gather to go.

[00:16:38] Michael Filletti: Just imagine if 10% of affiliates actually use their tools, it would be, that's a lot of business for us. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No, I'll take that. I'd be happy with that to be honest. It's, that's what I mean. We've only just scratched.

[00:16:52] John Wright: I feel like we've only just scratched the surface of what's, of what's possible. And yeah, this, the space is so far behind that it almost requires us to work, work together, to push the space forwards for me. When, when I first entered the space, I was, to be honest, I was a bit shocked that, uh, the sort of data that there was, I'm like, what, this is nothing. And then over time, I learned, okay, what's possible. And that's where I see that bridge coming, coming along where affiliates can be so much more optimized. Most, almost all of them have, obviously have a few exceptions of like larger companies that I think work very well and they have really strong data, but obviously it's there. So they're not gonna, they're not going to share it with anyone.

[00:17:31] John Wright: It's almost like a competitive advantage for them. But for the smaller affiliates, particularly for the mid-sized ones, there's a lot of money that they leave on the table and that they don't even realize again, even just in logging into their accounts every day, they're leaving money on the table, not optimizing correctly. And I think that finally enough, the, even just the core updates that are going on right now, we have lots of SEOs shouting about this, this core updates. That's, that's hurting a lot of businesses. It's almost forcing them to say, okay, I need to figure this out. The sad thing is that unfortunately they usually realize that when it's a bit too late and this is the slightly sad thing about it, but yeah, let's see. Yeah.

[00:18:10] John Wright: I mean, there's a whole tangent of a conversation we could have had to say, maybe if you optimize your brands like six or eight months ago, you would have made a lot more money to be able to afford two more SEO pros, and this is just compounded interest over time. It's, it's making better decisions, but I think even if it's too late, it's okay, if you want to stay in the game, there's a new level of the specific, how to do on the SEO side and the data side. Exactly. And this is maybe that's the shakeup that the industry needs to move. This is stuff that it's a evolution, right? It's stuff that happens and let's say that the fittest, the fittest survive. Yeah.

[00:18:48] John Wright: Optimize affiliates that are optimized are the ones that will, that will survive at the end of the day. This is the key because it's like you said, if you optimized earlier, you have more funds, maybe you can get in, yeah, super, super strong SEO guy who've opened, you'd have maybe saved yourself, who knows. But it's becoming really easy to start, start your own business. And that's why things are becoming more competitive. Let's see. Let's say, I think that again, tools like ours, we've seen it in almost every other industry in the world, the strongest companies in the world. That's your Facebook, your Netflix and whatnot. What are they built on? They're built on crazy levels of data. And I'd love that we will have this level of data for affiliates.

[00:19:26] John Wright: We don't, but, but we have, we have data, let's say, and the affiliates that, that use this data is the one in my opinion that will survive, so to speak. Yeah. And I think it's interesting. I think you, I don't know if you've got an integration that connects with Google analytics, but I know there's analytics and your affiliate data. Sometimes the data shouldn't be left or they just talk to each other, but other times there's a mismatch and that's where you have an opportunity for an optimization. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. We had an integration with GA three with the universal, but with GA four, I think they made things like really complicated, which we have, which so we don't have that's one, I think fully functional, but yeah, again,

[00:20:06] John Wright: integration with other tools, it's endless. So things that can be done over there. Yeah.

[00:20:10] Michael Filletti: So I want to ask what gets you excited about the BI space and analytics today.

[00:20:17] John Wright: Oh, that's a good question. So from, I might have told you that every question is a good question, John. You might have to cut it out. It's like, I appreciate that. I love hearing that.

[00:20:28] Michael Filletti: That's good. That's good. Yeah. So in terms of data right now, actually, one thing which was interesting to me, even a few years ago, and now I'm seeing it pick up more is actually a data literacy. I think it's a really interesting, really interesting topic. It sounds very boring, right? As in who cares, but the data literacy is becoming more and more important. So as in even affiliation, we're seeing steps made forward with data. So the rest of the world is moving forward with data and it's becoming really important to, to understand, to understand the data put in front of you. I've seen it in my post as well.

[00:21:04] Michael Filletti: The strongest affiliate managers that I've worked with and that I've seen also move up the ladder are the ones that, that knew how to analyze data, they knew to see player data, to see player value and all of this stuff, they use data. And I think it's going to be a really valuable valuable skill to have, in my opinion, aside from that in terms of the data side, for me it's still AI, which I really have one eye on of seeing how it's going to, how it's going to change the space, because for me, as in an ideal world, you have all this data. You have all the data that the stats drone, the router, whatever, and essentially have all motorboat, which is just going in and just telling you,

[00:21:43] Michael Filletti: oh look, this brand is returning zero FDDs for you. Why are you promoting them? What are you doing? This one, this page is not converting at all. But you shouldn't promote anymore. And it, to be honest, it doesn't feel super complicated when I look at what GPT can do, for example. So it's that for me is something which I think is going to be really interesting in terms of the kind of way that AI also integrates into these, these sort of roles. Let's say. Yeah. I think what you said about data literacy is actually the key of helping affiliates understand that. What is, what are these tools that we build?

[00:22:21] Michael Filletti: I think data literacy is that's actually everything in the iGaming space. I agree. I think affiliate managers that know how to look at data and analyze things and go and wait a minute, here's how we can optimize our 10 best affiliates and make an extra 20% out of them. That sounds obvious, but I know from asking a lot of affiliate managers going, what tools do you use to do your job? And it's very rare that I hear that they're using any CRM, which I think most of them aren't using any CRM at all. They don't know about tools like similar web or Ahrefs or even deep CI. And it's how are you doing this job?

[00:22:58] Michael Filletti: And then you ask them and it's, there's just not a lot of detailed insights. There's not a lot of data tools and even them, they can definitely use a lot of, a lot of data.

[00:23:08] John Wright: For sure. Like I said, I've seen the affiliate managers that use the ones that spoke the most to me were always the ones that typically rose up in a company. They're the ones that are interested in getting insights from the data, the ones that would play around with the, with Excel and all of this stuff. And yeah, for me data literacy, again, it also comes with being able to use Excel, for example. That's for me, something basic. And I know maybe some people are big fans of Excel, but it is for me, the most pure data tool out there. When I'm given a data set, I put some Excel and I play with this and I do whatever I want with it. This is the, the beauty of it. So yeah, yeah, data tools is not being used yet.

[00:23:48] John Wright: It's a bit shocking, but, and even not knowing what AHFs is and whatnot, but yeah, it is the industry. So it's, it's a bit, but it's a, it's an opportunity. That's that's what I like to call it.

[00:23:59] Michael Filletti: We definitely have a lot of work to do in the next year or two. So yeah, for sure. For sure. And it's, go ahead. We've seen the, we've seen the, we've seen the progress, right? Of the space as well. I think that's been really, that's been really exciting. So yeah.

[00:24:11] Michael Filletti: So the last question is, what do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business intelligence?

[00:24:18] John Wright: Oh, wow. So yeah, I think again, I would go back to what I mentioned earlier, which is around these more maybe optimized affiliates. So it's, I think right now there's a bit of a gap that we're seeing with the, you have the really large affiliates and then the, the gap is starting to disappear a bit. There's like this almost this big human, then you have the mid-sized and the smaller ones, where the larger getting larger. I think that maybe that gap will be filled by, by these affiliates that are more optimized. I think that the network side of things is going to be very interesting as these are popping up everywhere now, all of a sudden it's going to be, and the

[00:24:55] John Wright: networks, I guess it's like you mentioned, there will be, I think a BI element to them as well, where all of a sudden these insights are going to be looks for more and more. Yeah. I think it's data literacy. I think we'll be a part of it as well. I think that the guys that understand data the best also have the biggest advantage. Right. Because they're the ones who can optimize, optimize their businesses properly. I think it's going to be, it's going to be the age of the nerds, right? So it's way luck. It's just, that's my whole bet. That's what I tell myself, but yes, out of curious, how do you see it developing over?

[00:25:30] Michael Filletti: Yeah. Cause what you said is if it's the small to mid-sized affiliates that need these tools the most to really amplify their business, I try to look at, okay, where are these small to mid-sized affiliates going to live and be? And I think that they're going to start living more in the affiliate networks. So if you go to the affiliate network, they've got everything lined up for you. They have everything lined up for you except for ad tech and analytics. So that's why I think that somehow our tools need to find our way into these affiliate networks where this is going to be the first time they see any of these things. Yeah. So if affiliate networks are going to be the things that protect the affiliates

[00:26:07] Michael Filletti: from having their accounts, not getting closed, which we've seen a lot of in the last, it's not just been six months. This has been going on for like at least 10 years. I think affiliates need to know that they're protected, that they can come in and get a better deal. So it's not like the traditional affiliate network is you come in, you get one tracking link, one affiliate manager, and you get better deal. Then you do this on your own. That's like a standard. Those are table states. Now it's going to be like what additional layers can we add? It'll be either ad tech or I think guide tools. And that's why I think, I think it's personally important that we're going to find our way into these networks, which are going to then find their way to affiliates. And I think that's going to be the, I think that's going to be the future of the

[00:26:47] Michael Filletti: space you look at the outside of iGaming. You have the A wins, the share of sales, the CJ's click banks. And what are they is again, tracking links and banners. No one's using banners. And then the next wave of this is going to be, we need this optimized. There's a lot of data here and what can we do? And I think this is early days. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I agree. I agree. Yeah. Those who agree about even the space outside of iGaming, right? As in there you have a whole, it's a massive world. I gaming affiliation feels very, I don't know what the word is, but if I know John and John, how I'm going to know this guy's words, it's very, yeah,

[00:27:26] Michael Filletti: as intimate, let's say, and then you have the e-commerce world and all the other things that there are, those are as well, there's huge opportunities there. From what I understand in terms of tracking, they're also much better, which is a relief, but I don't know if they have this sort of BI solution out there still be like they don't. So that's again, a whole, a whole other world. So yeah, I think it's exciting. It's exciting times. I think. I agree. So Michael, thanks a lot for doing this. I'm looking forward to seeing you at the next few events and I want to pass it back to ask how people can get ahold of you. And of course we'll include those links in the show notes.

[00:28:06] Michael Filletti: Thank you. Thank you very much. So yeah, pleasure, pleasure being on. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Um, yeah, they can catch me on LinkedIn, Mike and Felicity, if they want to shoot over an email, Mike, let's go to the dot app. Um, yeah.

[00:28:18] Michael Filletti: So, awesome.

[00:28:21] John Wright: Can't wait to see you in person and we'll have more chats about how we're going to improve this data literacy in our own industry as well as outside of it. And yeah, it's rising tides, lift all boats. And it's, we got to definitely chat a bit more and see how we can get more affiliates knowing that we even exist in the first place. I agree. I agree for the agree. Thanks a lot for having me, John.

[00:28:46] Michael Filletti: Thank you for tuning in to the affiliate BI podcast. I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast. That helps us expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more listeners.