Eric Siu on Programmatic SEO, podcasting and affiliates

I've probably talked to a couple hundred I've probably talked to a couple hundred people on on that pod and the Common

people on on that pod and the Common people on on that pod and the Common Thread is there's a level of focus

Thread is there's a level of focus Thread is there's a level of focus that's required if you want to hit the that's required if you want to hit the that's required if you want to hit the outsized outcomes that's not saying

outsized outcomes that's not saying outsized outcomes that's not saying everyone needs to go for the outsized

everyone needs to go for the outsized everyone needs to go for the outsized outcomes but if you want like a Warren

outcomes but if you want like a Warren outcomes but if you want like a Warren Buffett type of scenario where they're Buffett type of scenario where they're Buffett type of scenario where they're holding like $188 billion dollars in

holding like $188 billion dollars in holding like $188 billion dollars in cash right now and they own a bunch of cash right now and they own a bunch of cash right now and they own a bunch of companies well it's just Relentless

companies well it's just Relentless companies well it's just Relentless focus at the end of the day it's not

focus at the end of the day it's not focus at the end of the day it's not about not so much about diversification

about not so much about diversification about not so much about diversification and the late Charlie Munger but Charlie

and the late Charlie Munger but Charlie and the late Charlie Munger but Charlie Munger I was watching a video yesterday Munger I was watching a video yesterday Munger I was watching a video yesterday he was just saying that you know if he was just saying that you know if he was just saying that you know if you're if you're really have an edge in you're if you're really have an edge in you're if you're really have an edge in what you understand you really don't what you understand you really don't what you understand you really don't need to diversify that much I think the

need to diversify that much I think the need to diversify that much I think the problem with a lot of marketers problem with a lot of marketers problem with a lot of marketers especially affiliate marketers is that

especially affiliate marketers is that especially affiliate marketers is that we try to do too many things and that's

we try to do too many things and that's we try to do too many things and that's one of the biggest lessons and it wasn't

one of the biggest lessons and it wasn't one of the biggest lessons and it wasn't until I got punched in the face myself

until I got punched in the face myself until I got punched in the face myself where I learned that that lesson where I learned that that lesson where I learned that that lesson actually makes a lot of

actually makes a lot of actually makes a lot of sense I'm John Wright and you're

sense I'm John Wright and you're sense I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business

listening to affiliate bi the business listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by stat Welcome to the bi podcast I'm

stat Welcome to the bi podcast I'm stat Welcome to the bi podcast I'm chatting with Eric Sue who runs the

chatting with Eric Sue who runs the chatting with Eric Sue who runs the leveling up Podcast which as of today

leveling up Podcast which as of today leveling up Podcast which as of today has over a thousand episodes since 2014

has over a thousand episodes since 2014 has over a thousand episodes since 2014 he's also the co-host of the marketing

he's also the co-host of the marketing he's also the co-host of the marketing School podcast with Neil Patel and he's

School podcast with Neil Patel and he's School podcast with Neil Patel and he's the founder of single grain which is a

the founder of single grain which is a the founder of single grain which is a digital marketing agency and I'll stop

digital marketing agency and I'll stop digital marketing agency and I'll stop right there because I could go on for right there because I could go on for right there because I could go on for quite a while Eric welcome to the show

quite a while Eric welcome to the show quite a while Eric welcome to the show yeah thanks for having me John excited yeah thanks for having me John excited yeah thanks for having me John excited to be here so I want to start off with

to be here so I want to start off with to be here so I want to start off with uh a powerful question which is for 10

uh a powerful question which is for 10 uh a powerful question which is for 10 years of doing this leveling up Podcast

years of doing this leveling up Podcast years of doing this leveling up Podcast featuring guests Like Pat Flynn Alex

featuring guests Like Pat Flynn Alex featuring guests Like Pat Flynn Alex Heros Patrick Campbell and getting to

Heros Patrick Campbell and getting to Heros Patrick Campbell and getting to pick the brains of some of these amazing

pick the brains of some of these amazing pick the brains of some of these amazing entrepreneurs on how they level up what

entrepreneurs on how they level up what entrepreneurs on how they level up what are some of your best learnings for um

are some of your best learnings for um are some of your best learnings for um just leveling up and like the best

just leveling up and like the best just leveling up and like the best insights from all of that yeah I think

insights from all of that yeah I think insights from all of that yeah I think the the the common thread I think i'

the the the common thread I think i' the the the common thread I think i' I've probably talked to a couple hundred I've probably talked to a couple hundred I've probably talked to a couple hundred people on on that pod and the Common

people on on that pod and the Common people on on that pod and the Common Thread is there's a level of focus

Thread is there's a level of focus Thread is there's a level of focus that's required if you want to hit the that's required if you want to hit the that's required if you want to hit the outsized outcomes that's us saying

outsized outcomes that's us saying outsized outcomes that's us saying everyone needs to go for the outsized

everyone needs to go for the outsized everyone needs to go for the outsized outcomes but if you want like a Warren

outcomes but if you want like a Warren outcomes but if you want like a Warren Buffett type of scenario where they're Buffett type of scenario where they're Buffett type of scenario where they're holding like $188 billion do in cash

holding like $188 billion do in cash holding like $188 billion do in cash right now and they own a bunch of right now and they own a bunch of right now and they own a bunch of companies well it's just Relentless

companies well it's just Relentless companies well it's just Relentless focus at the end of the day it's not

focus at the end of the day it's not focus at the end of the day it's not about not so much about diversification

about not so much about diversification about not so much about diversification and the late Charlie Munger and then you

and the late Charlie Munger and then you and the late Charlie Munger and then you can't really see them but um Charlie

can't really see them but um Charlie can't really see them but um Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett are over here Munger and Warren Buffett are over here Munger and Warren Buffett are over here they're they're these two bronze bust if

they're they're these two bronze bust if they're they're these two bronze bust if you're watching the video um but Charlie

you're watching the video um but Charlie you're watching the video um but Charlie Munger I was watching a video yesterday Munger I was watching a video yesterday Munger I was watching a video yesterday he was just saying that you know if he was just saying that you know if he was just saying that you know if you're if you really have an edge in you're if you really have an edge in you're if you really have an edge in what you understand you really don't what you understand you really don't what you understand you really don't need to diversify that much I think the

need to diversify that much I think the need to diversify that much I think the problem with a lot of marketers problem with a lot of marketers problem with a lot of marketers especially affiliate marketers is that

especially affiliate marketers is that especially affiliate marketers is that we try to do too many things and that's

we try to do too many things and that's we try to do too many things and that's one of the biggest lessons and it wasn't

one of the biggest lessons and it wasn't one of the biggest lessons and it wasn't until I got punched in the face myself

until I got punched in the face myself until I got punched in the face myself where I learned that that lesson where I learned that that lesson where I learned that that lesson actually makes a lot of sense I think I

actually makes a lot of sense I think I actually makes a lot of sense I think I understand because I've made those

understand because I've made those understand because I've made those mistakes for nearly 20 years and it it

mistakes for nearly 20 years and it it mistakes for nearly 20 years and it it took me the punch in the face to realize

took me the punch in the face to realize took me the punch in the face to realize you know what just do one thing sell

you know what just do one thing sell you know what just do one thing sell your affiliate businesses build the

your affiliate businesses build the your affiliate businesses build the affiliate software that you were meant affiliate software that you were meant affiliate software that you were meant to do and um yeah it was a pretty

to do and um yeah it was a pretty to do and um yeah it was a pretty painful lesson but I'm glad I at least

painful lesson but I'm glad I at least painful lesson but I'm glad I at least learned it there you go focus is King

learned it there you go focus is King learned it there you go focus is King okay so I was introduced to you by Miel

okay so I was introduced to you by Miel okay so I was introduced to you by Miel suski who's from Surfer SEO and he's

suski who's from Surfer SEO and he's suski who's from Surfer SEO and he's like you got to talk to Eric about uh

like you got to talk to Eric about uh like you got to talk to Eric about uh programmatic SEO so I want to ask you

programmatic SEO so I want to ask you programmatic SEO so I want to ask you what is the right way of doing what is the right way of doing what is the right way of doing programmatic SEO today given what we

programmatic SEO today given what we programmatic SEO today given what we know what's happening in the background know what's happening in the background know what's happening in the background with Google yeah totally so setting the

with Google yeah totally so setting the with Google yeah totally so setting the context for everyone there was a Google context for everyone there was a Google context for everyone there was a Google helpful content update and there was

helpful content update and there was helpful content update and there was like a basically like a Google AI update

like a basically like a Google AI update like a basically like a Google AI update that happened in the last couple months

that happened in the last couple months that happened in the last couple months and actually as of this week there's and actually as of this week there's and actually as of this week there's another update that happened with a

another update that happened with a another update that happened with a reputation abuse update that happened

reputation abuse update that happened reputation abuse update that happened right and so um and we can go into all

right and so um and we can go into all right and so um and we can go into all of those but the main thing is um if I

of those but the main thing is um if I of those but the main thing is um if I were to answer your question directly

were to answer your question directly were to answer your question directly programmatic SEO is I'll show a real

programmatic SEO is I'll show a real programmatic SEO is I'll show a real life example here it's about building

life example here it's about building life example here it's about building templated Pages at Scale based on

templated Pages at Scale based on templated Pages at Scale based on Geographic keywords or uh you know

Geographic keywords or uh you know Geographic keywords or uh you know different type of you know you can have

different type of you know you can have different type of you know you can have different type of modifiers right could different type of modifiers right could different type of modifiers right could be like HubSpot Alternatives Salesforce

be like HubSpot Alternatives Salesforce be like HubSpot Alternatives Salesforce Alternatives those types of keywords Alternatives those types of keywords Alternatives those types of keywords right now if I were to simplify based on

right now if I were to simplify based on right now if I were to simplify based on Geographic or geography you might do fun

Geographic or geography you might do fun Geographic or geography you might do fun things to do in Rome fun things to do in

things to do in Rome fun things to do in things to do in Rome fun things to do in Japan fun things to do in Los Angeles

Japan fun things to do in Los Angeles Japan fun things to do in Los Angeles right and that's why a site like Trip

right and that's why a site like Trip right and that's why a site like Trip Advisor drives over 131 million visitors

Advisor drives over 131 million visitors Advisor drives over 131 million visitors per month from SEO alone and they that

per month from SEO alone and they that per month from SEO alone and they that traffic alone if they were to pay for it

traffic alone if they were to pay for it traffic alone if they were to pay for it would be $67 million a month for that

would be $67 million a month for that would be $67 million a month for that traffic so it's a lot of money and they

traffic so it's a lot of money and they traffic so it's a lot of money and they rank for about 121 million keywords or

rank for about 121 million keywords or rank for about 121 million keywords or so um something something like that or

so um something something like that or so um something something like that or actually sorry I got that wrong it's actually sorry I got that wrong it's actually sorry I got that wrong it's about 24 million keywords um bad memory

about 24 million keywords um bad memory about 24 million keywords um bad memory but you know the key thing for them is

but you know the key thing for them is but you know the key thing for them is they're creating so many permutations of

they're creating so many permutations of they're creating so many permutations of these p pages and they're generating these p pages and they're generating these p pages and they're generating these pages programmatically that

these pages programmatically that these pages programmatically that they're when you combine the sheer

they're when you combine the sheer they're when you combine the sheer amount of volume that they're producing

amount of volume that they're producing amount of volume that they're producing plus their domain Authority they're able

plus their domain Authority they're able plus their domain Authority they're able to rank for all these right now the the

to rank for all these right now the the to rank for all these right now the the key thing with with if you want to do key thing with with if you want to do key thing with with if you want to do programmatic SEO if we want to get into programmatic SEO if we want to get into programmatic SEO if we want to get into it a little bit is that you need to make

it a little bit is that you need to make it a little bit is that you need to make sure that you're designing these these

sure that you're designing these these sure that you're designing these these page templates and you need to make sure

page templates and you need to make sure page templates and you need to make sure that the keywords that you're going that the keywords that you're going that the keywords that you're going after are actually the keywords that uh

after are actually the keywords that uh after are actually the keywords that uh make sense for you and often these are

make sense for you and often these are make sense for you and often these are you know middle of the funnel and bottom you know middle of the funnel and bottom you know middle of the funnel and bottom of the funnel type keywords and um you

of the funnel type keywords and um you of the funnel type keywords and um you got to make sure that you're pruning got to make sure that you're pruning got to make sure that you're pruning these pages too because if you're going

these pages too because if you're going these pages too because if you're going to produce tens of thousands of these

to produce tens of thousands of these to produce tens of thousands of these Pages you can't produce a bunch of crap

Pages you can't produce a bunch of crap Pages you can't produce a bunch of crap right you actually have to be reviewing right you actually have to be reviewing right you actually have to be reviewing these pages so I'll stop right there these pages so I'll stop right there these pages so I'll stop right there I'll pause for a second but that's the

I'll pause for a second but that's the I'll pause for a second but that's the high level for programmatic SEO it makes

high level for programmatic SEO it makes high level for programmatic SEO it makes sense I mean I'm sure you could just

sense I mean I'm sure you could just sense I mean I'm sure you could just blasto 200 Pages easily but if you're

blasto 200 Pages easily but if you're blasto 200 Pages easily but if you're not actually going through and like you

not actually going through and like you not actually going through and like you said pruning them I think that's where

said pruning them I think that's where said pruning them I think that's where maybe everyone makes a mistake and

maybe everyone makes a mistake and maybe everyone makes a mistake and probably where I have a fear of actually

probably where I have a fear of actually probably where I have a fear of actually trying to do it but going okay if I'm

trying to do it but going okay if I'm trying to do it but going okay if I'm going to launch these how do I do it in going to launch these how do I do it in going to launch these how do I do it in a carefully in a careful way where

a carefully in a careful way where a carefully in a careful way where there's still quality behind it like you

there's still quality behind it like you there's still quality behind it like you said uh it's got to have value otherwise

said uh it's got to have value otherwise said uh it's got to have value otherwise why bother yeah so John one thing that

why bother yeah so John one thing that why bother yeah so John one thing that we do with that is internally we we

we do with that is internally we we we do with that is internally we we built that that single grain we built an

built that that single grain we built an built that that single grain we built an internal um tool that allows us we

internal um tool that allows us we internal um tool that allows us we basically quality score these pages and

basically quality score these pages and basically quality score these pages and so if we produce let's say 10,000 Pages

so if we produce let's say 10,000 Pages so if we produce let's say 10,000 Pages let's say you know 2,000 of these Pages

let's say you know 2,000 of these Pages let's say you know 2,000 of these Pages don't drive any traffic in the first 30

don't drive any traffic in the first 30 don't drive any traffic in the first 30 days well those pages are automatically

days well those pages are automatically days well those pages are automatically going to be deleted so we're going to be deleted so we're going to be deleted so we're programmatically doing that piece and

programmatically doing that piece and programmatically doing that piece and then you know initially when we start

then you know initially when we start then you know initially when we start with the first batch of let's say you

with the first batch of let's say you with the first batch of let's say you know the first batch of 25 to 50 pages

know the first batch of 25 to 50 pages know the first batch of 25 to 50 pages we might have a human in a loop to just we might have a human in a loop to just we might have a human in a loop to just double check those pages and then if if

double check those pages and then if if double check those pages and then if if all 50 of those look good chances are

all 50 of those look good chances are all 50 of those look good chances are the rest are going to look good and then the rest are going to look good and then the rest are going to look good and then we'll have that quality score tool in we'll have that quality score tool in we'll have that quality score tool in there to kind of double check and there to kind of double check and there to kind of double check and automatically delete pages at scale and

automatically delete pages at scale and automatically delete pages at scale and how would you recommend or what are some

how would you recommend or what are some how would you recommend or what are some ideas behind using chat GPT to try to

ideas behind using chat GPT to try to ideas behind using chat GPT to try to come up with like ideas yeah so for chat

come up with like ideas yeah so for chat come up with like ideas yeah so for chat GPT let's say that we use like a HR or

GPT let's say that we use like a HR or GPT let's say that we use like a HR or we use like a semrush or a surfer for it

we use like a semrush or a surfer for it we use like a semrush or a surfer for it to come up with different keyword to come up with different keyword to come up with different keyword keyword ideas so initially let's use a

keyword ideas so initially let's use a keyword ideas so initially let's use a Trip Advisor example so hey you know I'm

Trip Advisor example so hey you know I'm Trip Advisor example so hey you know I'm a travel website and um or sorry let's

a travel website and um or sorry let's a travel website and um or sorry let's reset for a second here's the prompt it

reset for a second here's the prompt it reset for a second here's the prompt it might be you're the best SEO in the

might be you're the best SEO in the might be you're the best SEO in the world and you're trying to optimize

world and you're trying to optimize world and you're trying to optimize using programmatic SEO and you're trying using programmatic SEO and you're trying using programmatic SEO and you're trying to drive millions of visitors right so to drive millions of visitors right so to drive millions of visitors right so you're setting the tone for the prompt you're setting the tone for the prompt you're setting the tone for the prompt right there and then you're saying okay

right there and then you're saying okay right there and then you're saying okay you know our website rings for keywords

you know our website rings for keywords you know our website rings for keywords such as fun things to do in Japan fun such as fun things to do in Japan fun such as fun things to do in Japan fun things to do in Rome fun things to do um

things to do in Rome fun things to do um things to do in Rome fun things to do um and blah blah blah and then you know and blah blah blah and then you know and blah blah blah and then you know we're we're worldwide right and uh we

we're we're worldwide right and uh we we're we're worldwide right and uh we want to aim for you know the the biggest

want to aim for you know the the biggest want to aim for you know the the biggest countries or the biggest cities in the

countries or the biggest cities in the countries or the biggest cities in the world um can you give me those keywords

world um can you give me those keywords world um can you give me those keywords right and then that could be that could right and then that could be that could right and then that could be that could be an idea that um that they'll shoot

be an idea that um that they'll shoot be an idea that um that they'll shoot off to you that maybe they'll give you a off to you that maybe they'll give you a off to you that maybe they'll give you a list of maybe a 100 keywords or so and

list of maybe a 100 keywords or so and list of maybe a 100 keywords or so and then you can dump those keywords into then you can dump those keywords into then you can dump those keywords into like an hress and they'll suggest like an hress and they'll suggest like an hress and they'll suggest another set of keywords for you to go another set of keywords for you to go another set of keywords for you to go after and then you can build your list

after and then you can build your list after and then you can build your list that way and then you can prune the the

that way and then you can prune the the that way and then you can prune the the keywords that you don't necessarily want keywords that you don't necessarily want keywords that you don't necessarily want to rank for that's one way you can go

to rank for that's one way you can go to rank for that's one way you can go about it yeah I saw one of your posts I

about it yeah I saw one of your posts I about it yeah I saw one of your posts I think it was six months ago on LinkedIn

think it was six months ago on LinkedIn think it was six months ago on LinkedIn I talked about how you could use chat

I talked about how you could use chat I talked about how you could use chat gbt for one of these examples and I

gbt for one of these examples and I gbt for one of these examples and I actually copied it for affiliate actually copied it for affiliate actually copied it for affiliate marketing and I was kind of surprised

marketing and I was kind of surprised marketing and I was kind of surprised that how insightful it was like it I

that how insightful it was like it I that how insightful it was like it I just assume that chat GPT wouldn't

just assume that chat GPT wouldn't just assume that chat GPT wouldn't really understand my space in affiliate

really understand my space in affiliate really understand my space in affiliate marketing but it basically gave me marketing but it basically gave me marketing but it basically gave me things that I'm like oh I feel guilty

things that I'm like oh I feel guilty things that I'm like oh I feel guilty that I'm not even doing that yeah it

that I'm not even doing that yeah it that I'm not even doing that yeah it does it does um and that's a good point

does it does um and that's a good point does it does um and that's a good point John it does when you give it a role and

John it does when you give it a role and John it does when you give it a role and you say you're the best copywriter in you say you're the best copywriter in you say you're the best copywriter in the world or you're the best YouTube

the world or you're the best YouTube the world or you're the best YouTube headline and thumbnail Creator it does a

headline and thumbnail Creator it does a headline and thumbnail Creator it does a pretty damn good job of making headlines

pretty damn good job of making headlines pretty damn good job of making headlines really interesting or whatever it is you

really interesting or whatever it is you really interesting or whatever it is you need them to do because once you give it need them to do because once you give it need them to do because once you give it a roll it's GNA hone in on the data that

a roll it's GNA hone in on the data that a roll it's GNA hone in on the data that it does have that it's trained on it does have that it's trained on it does have that it's trained on already and it's going to give you already and it's going to give you already and it's going to give you something that's a lot more specific if

something that's a lot more specific if something that's a lot more specific if you're too broad with what you're asking you're too broad with what you're asking you're too broad with what you're asking for then unfortunately it's pulling from

for then unfortunately it's pulling from for then unfortunately it's pulling from a broad data set and that the answer

a broad data set and that the answer a broad data set and that the answer that you're going to get is going to be that you're going to get is going to be that you're going to get is going to be a more broad answer okay now I want to

a more broad answer okay now I want to a more broad answer okay now I want to try to come up with some good ideas for

try to come up with some good ideas for try to come up with some good ideas for the affiliate marketing space so we're a

the affiliate marketing space so we're a the affiliate marketing space so we're a SAS company we're like the QuickBooks

SAS company we're like the QuickBooks SAS company we're like the QuickBooks for Affiliates but we believe our

for Affiliates but we believe our for Affiliates but we believe our Affiliates are problem aware but not Affiliates are problem aware but not Affiliates are problem aware but not solution aware so one of our goto

solution aware so one of our goto solution aware so one of our goto markets is to do affiliate program

markets is to do affiliate program markets is to do affiliate program reviews and then the categories um what

reviews and then the categories um what reviews and then the categories um what are some ideas that you would have for

are some ideas that you would have for are some ideas that you would have for not just doing programmatic for the sake

not just doing programmatic for the sake not just doing programmatic for the sake of it but maybe a good strategy or a

of it but maybe a good strategy or a of it but maybe a good strategy or a good idea behind it so specifically in

good idea behind it so specifically in good idea behind it so specifically in your space yes okay so again you are

your space yes okay so again you are your space yes okay so again you are just to recap again you are it's like a

just to recap again you are it's like a just to recap again you are it's like a QuickBooks affiliate so you're targeting

QuickBooks affiliate so you're targeting QuickBooks affiliate so you're targeting people that are small business owners no

people that are small business owners no people that are small business owners no it's it's like the QuickBooks for it's it's like the QuickBooks for it's it's like the QuickBooks for Affiliates so it pulls all your stats Affiliates so it pulls all your stats Affiliates so it pulls all your stats commissions into a single app got it

commissions into a single app got it commissions into a single app got it okay great and then you're you're asking

okay great and then you're you're asking okay great and then you're you're asking about how I was specifically use this

about how I was specifically use this about how I was specifically use this with AI well it could be AI but it could

with AI well it could be AI but it could with AI well it could be AI but it could be just like a generic strategy of going

be just like a generic strategy of going be just like a generic strategy of going okay what are like we know from the

okay what are like we know from the okay what are like we know from the categories that could be very categories that could be very categories that could be very programmatic so it's like gambling as

programmatic so it's like gambling as programmatic so it's like gambling as one example has different niches and

one example has different niches and one example has different niches and then there's different countries that

then there's different countries that then there's different countries that have different markets within each thing

have different markets within each thing have different markets within each thing um as as one example yeah so I don't

um as as one example yeah so I don't um as as one example yeah so I don't know your spa I'm I'm trying to figure

know your spa I'm I'm trying to figure know your spa I'm I'm trying to figure out like what uh it sounds like I need

out like what uh it sounds like I need out like what uh it sounds like I need to understand your product a little more to understand your product a little more to understand your product a little more is it so it's like it sounds to me like

is it so it's like it sounds to me like is it so it's like it sounds to me like it's an all-in-one type of affiliate

it's an all-in-one type of affiliate it's an all-in-one type of affiliate tool tool tool that's pretty accurate it's like a CRM

that's pretty accurate it's like a CRM that's pretty accurate it's like a CRM it does business intelligence but the

it does business intelligence but the it does business intelligence but the most important central part is how much

most important central part is how much most important central part is how much money did I make today yesterday stores

money did I make today yesterday stores money did I make today yesterday stores all the data right down to the campaign

all the data right down to the campaign all the data right down to the campaign level got it got it got it okay so what level got it got it got it okay so what level got it got it got it okay so what I would do in this scenario and it might

I would do in this scenario and it might I would do in this scenario and it might it might be an element of programmatic

it might be an element of programmatic it might be an element of programmatic uh to start with you might not even need uh to start with you might not even need uh to start with you might not even need programmatic here um but when I think

programmatic here um but when I think programmatic here um but when I think about software and we'll go back to my

about software and we'll go back to my about software and we'll go back to my example about um Alternatives right so

example about um Alternatives right so example about um Alternatives right so HubSpot alternativ so you would look at

HubSpot alternativ so you would look at HubSpot alternativ so you would look at all your competitors and do competitor

all your competitors and do competitor all your competitors and do competitor plus Alternatives right um and then you

plus Alternatives right um and then you plus Alternatives right um and then you would also do another modifier might be

would also do another modifier might be would also do another modifier might be uh your competitors versus your company

uh your competitors versus your company uh your competitors versus your company name right so versus does really well

name right so versus does really well name right so versus does really well Alternatives does do really well um when

Alternatives does do really well um when Alternatives does do really well um when it comes to software and then from there

it comes to software and then from there it comes to software and then from there I I probably would have to go top of the

I I probably would have to go top of the I I probably would have to go top of the funnel because there just aren't a lot

funnel because there just aren't a lot funnel because there just aren't a lot of keywords here because again like of keywords here because again like of keywords here because again like programmatic works really well for programmatic works really well for programmatic works really well for e-commerce if you have a lot of skews or

e-commerce if you have a lot of skews or e-commerce if you have a lot of skews or it works really well if you are if you

it works really well if you are if you it works really well if you are if you have a lot of geographic locations right

have a lot of geographic locations right have a lot of geographic locations right that's where it works out well um and

that's where it works out well um and that's where it works out well um and then you could you have a big multiplier

then you could you have a big multiplier then you could you have a big multiplier effect there I think in your situation

effect there I think in your situation effect there I think in your situation you're going to have to go one level you're going to have to go one level you're going to have to go one level higher if you want to get programmatic higher if you want to get programmatic higher if you want to get programmatic to work and then I think you're going to

to work and then I think you're going to to work and then I think you're going to have to think about okay um you know how

have to think about okay um you know how have to think about okay um you know how do I check my gambling Revenue every day

do I check my gambling Revenue every day do I check my gambling Revenue every day how do I check my you know Niche Revenue

how do I check my you know Niche Revenue how do I check my you know Niche Revenue every day right and I think there's a

every day right and I think there's a every day right and I think there's a lot of questions that could be answered

lot of questions that could be answered lot of questions that could be answered and then where you add that modifier of and then where you add that modifier of and then where you add that modifier of the niche that you're that that the the niche that you're that that the the niche that you're that that the affiliate Niche and then I think you can

affiliate Niche and then I think you can affiliate Niche and then I think you can create a lot of content around that um

create a lot of content around that um create a lot of content around that um and and go from there it sounds so

and and go from there it sounds so and and go from there it sounds so simple but it's I kind of feel guilty

simple but it's I kind of feel guilty simple but it's I kind of feel guilty that we didn't even think of something that we didn't even think of something that we didn't even think of something as basic as like how do we get our

as basic as like how do we get our as basic as like how do we get our Revenue every day uh just to give you

Revenue every day uh just to give you Revenue every day uh just to give you some feedback of ideas that we some feedback of ideas that we some feedback of ideas that we considered were uh how to get the apis

considered were uh how to get the apis considered were uh how to get the apis from the fet program so you can pull the from the fet program so you can pull the from the fet program so you can pull the data in and ironically enough because

data in and ironically enough because data in and ironically enough because people are problem aware but not people are problem aware but not people are problem aware but not solution aware they look for those solution aware they look for those solution aware they look for those keywords because they're trying to do keywords because they're trying to do keywords because they're trying to do this themselves they're like I had no this themselves they're like I had no this themselves they're like I had no idea you even existed yeah exactly so

idea you even existed yeah exactly so idea you even existed yeah exactly so that's perfect right I mean You' have that's perfect right I mean You' have that's perfect right I mean You' have all these blog posts and then you have all these blog posts and then you have all these blog posts and then you have many uh call to actions as the blog post

many uh call to actions as the blog post many uh call to actions as the blog post goes through just you'd c those right

goes through just you'd c those right goes through just you'd c those right and you you maybe you'd have like a

and you you maybe you'd have like a and you you maybe you'd have like a product Leed growth motion I don't know

product Leed growth motion I don't know product Leed growth motion I don't know how works for you guys but you you you

how works for you guys but you you you how works for you guys but you you you might have like a like a premium version

might have like a like a premium version might have like a like a premium version that they can sign up for and you can

that they can sign up for and you can that they can sign up for and you can get them into the funnel right so um you

get them into the funnel right so um you get them into the funnel right so um you know you would know your funnel a lot know you would know your funnel a lot know you would know your funnel a lot better than me but that's how I might better than me but that's how I might better than me but that's how I might think about it yeah we've we've been

think about it yeah we've we've been think about it yeah we've we've been product L growth all the way for the product L growth all the way for the product L growth all the way for the last year and I don't think we want to

last year and I don't think we want to last year and I don't think we want to change that great happy your work for

change that great happy your work for change that great happy your work for you so the next question is I feel that

you so the next question is I feel that you so the next question is I feel that social media and videos becoming more

social media and videos becoming more social media and videos becoming more prominent and more influential and would

prominent and more influential and would prominent and more influential and would you say this is going to be probably a

you say this is going to be probably a you say this is going to be probably a stronger goto market for Affiliates

stronger goto market for Affiliates stronger goto market for Affiliates given SEO

given SEO given SEO yeah I mean SEO is getting harder I

yeah I mean SEO is getting harder I yeah I mean SEO is getting harder I think you and I are both aware of that

think you and I are both aware of that think you and I are both aware of that um but I would say to me YouTube is the

um but I would say to me YouTube is the um but I would say to me YouTube is the biggest opportunity for the next decade

biggest opportunity for the next decade biggest opportunity for the next decade I I just don't see that going anywhere

I I just don't see that going anywhere I I just don't see that going anywhere uh I think LinkedIn and Twitter are uh I think LinkedIn and Twitter are uh I think LinkedIn and Twitter are certainly nice right now because they certainly nice right now because they certainly nice right now because they have good organic reach and then you have good organic reach and then you have good organic reach and then you know whatever your whatever is that know whatever your whatever is that know whatever your whatever is that you're selling I think you just got to you're selling I think you just got to you're selling I think you just got to focus on where the organic reach is um

focus on where the organic reach is um focus on where the organic reach is um and the interesting thing if I to go

and the interesting thing if I to go and the interesting thing if I to go higher level right now is when you look

higher level right now is when you look higher level right now is when you look at some of the most successful investors

at some of the most successful investors at some of the most successful investors in the world whether it's Mark andreon

in the world whether it's Mark andreon in the world whether it's Mark andreon or you look at Brad gers you look at

or you look at Brad gers you look at or you look at Brad gers you look at Bill Gurley all these people had Bill Gurley all these people had Bill Gurley all these people had invested some of the best companies in invested some of the best companies in invested some of the best companies in the world and uh Ben Horowitz right who

the world and uh Ben Horowitz right who the world and uh Ben Horowitz right who wrote the hard thing about hard things

wrote the hard thing about hard things wrote the hard thing about hard things he has a podcast with Mark andreon so

he has a podcast with Mark andreon so he has a podcast with Mark andreon so you have a lot of these investors that

you have a lot of these investors that you have a lot of these investors that are creating content now it's because

are creating content now it's because are creating content now it's because they're understanding they're realizing

they're understanding they're realizing they're understanding they're realizing that the the new customer acquisition

that the the new customer acquisition that the the new customer acquisition the new demand generation is actually

the new demand generation is actually the new demand generation is actually creators at the end of the day right

creators at the end of the day right creators at the end of the day right because distribution is becoming more

because distribution is becoming more because distribution is becoming more and more democratized and SE is becoming

and more democratized and SE is becoming and more democratized and SE is becoming harder and so you know traditional media

harder and so you know traditional media harder and so you know traditional media is kind of going down and um you know

is kind of going down and um you know is kind of going down and um you know you have companies like ESP end like

you have companies like ESP end like you have companies like ESP end like they're they're struggling they're they're they're struggling they're they're they're struggling they're starting to struggle a little bit um and

starting to struggle a little bit um and starting to struggle a little bit um and you have platforms like the Tik toks of you have platforms like the Tik toks of you have platforms like the Tik toks of the world who knows what's going to the world who knows what's going to the world who knows what's going to happen to them and YouTubes where um

happen to them and YouTubes where um happen to them and YouTubes where um you're going to be able to to to capture

you're going to be able to to to capture you're going to be able to to to capture the attention and so the fact that we're

the attention and so the fact that we're the attention and so the fact that we're doing this right now I think John you doing this right now I think John you doing this right now I think John you see the value in it um to to be able to

see the value in it um to to be able to see the value in it um to to be able to post this podcast to YouTube chop it up

post this podcast to YouTube chop it up post this podcast to YouTube chop it up for audio as well and then chop it up

for audio as well and then chop it up for audio as well and then chop it up for shorts and then even chop up and use

for shorts and then even chop up and use for shorts and then even chop up and use those shorts and post you know I have a those shorts and post you know I have a those shorts and post you know I have a caption and post it to LinkedIn um

caption and post it to LinkedIn um caption and post it to LinkedIn um that's the way to get organic reach that's the way to get organic reach that's the way to get organic reach right now and uh those that are playing

right now and uh those that are playing right now and uh those that are playing the game are going to reap the reward

the game are going to reap the reward the game are going to reap the reward for the next decade yes well you already

for the next decade yes well you already for the next decade yes well you already answered another question but given

answered another question but given answered another question but given someone who's been doing podcasting for

someone who's been doing podcasting for someone who's been doing podcasting for 10 years plus your other podcasts I mean

10 years plus your other podcasts I mean 10 years plus your other podcasts I mean I mean the question I kind of don't want I mean the question I kind of don't want I mean the question I kind of don't want to ask is like should I do two podcasts

to ask is like should I do two podcasts to ask is like should I do two podcasts yeah it's interesting to me um I posted

yeah it's interesting to me um I posted yeah it's interesting to me um I posted a thought yesterday about how I'm

a thought yesterday about how I'm a thought yesterday about how I'm evolving the leveling up Podcast but

evolving the leveling up Podcast but evolving the leveling up Podcast but because there's too many interview because there's too many interview because there's too many interview podcasts right now and so um you have to

podcasts right now and so um you have to podcasts right now and so um you have to Zig so here's a little side lesson when

Zig so here's a little side lesson when Zig so here's a little side lesson when everyone's doing the same thing you have everyone's doing the same thing you have everyone's doing the same thing you have to Zig where other people are zagging so

to Zig where other people are zagging so to Zig where other people are zagging so 10 years ago when I was doing it it was 10 years ago when I was doing it it was 10 years ago when I was doing it it was novel right and then it's very much

novel right and then it's very much novel right and then it's very much interview podcasts have very much become interview podcasts have very much become interview podcasts have very much become a red ocean and you know my thought

a red ocean and you know my thought a red ocean and you know my thought recently was like I have a lot of stuff

recently was like I have a lot of stuff recently was like I have a lot of stuff to say but when I when I do interview

to say but when I when I do interview to say but when I when I do interview podcasts I want to respect the other podcasts I want to respect the other podcasts I want to respect the other person I want to get insights from them

person I want to get insights from them person I want to get insights from them and so it it it comes from like a

and so it it it comes from like a and so it it it comes from like a situation where I'm just trying to learn

situation where I'm just trying to learn situation where I'm just trying to learn but the the audience doesn't really but the the audience doesn't really but the the audience doesn't really learn about me right and so now I'm

learn about me right and so now I'm learn about me right and so now I'm thinking about changing up where maybe

thinking about changing up where maybe thinking about changing up where maybe 70 80% of the time John I'm just focused

70 80% of the time John I'm just focused 70 80% of the time John I'm just focused on doing solo episodes much like how

on doing solo episodes much like how on doing solo episodes much like how Andrew huberman does solo episodes and

Andrew huberman does solo episodes and Andrew huberman does solo episodes and then maybe % of the time those are the

then maybe % of the time those are the then maybe % of the time those are the people that I really really really want

people that I really really really want people that I really really really want to talk to and then that balance will

to talk to and then that balance will to talk to and then that balance will leave me satisfied from a learning and

leave me satisfied from a learning and leave me satisfied from a learning and teaching standpoint so that doesn't

teaching standpoint so that doesn't teaching standpoint so that doesn't answer your question directly um but

answer your question directly um but answer your question directly um but that's how I'm I'm thinking about it so

that's how I'm I'm thinking about it so that's how I'm I'm thinking about it so should you have two podcasts um I don't

should you have two podcasts um I don't should you have two podcasts um I don't know because for leveling up again that

know because for leveling up again that know because for leveling up again that was satisfying my curiosity for was satisfying my curiosity for was satisfying my curiosity for marketing school that's Neil and I

marketing school that's Neil and I marketing school that's Neil and I reacting to marketing news but I think

reacting to marketing news but I think reacting to marketing news but I think what was missing with leveling up was I

what was missing with leveling up was I what was missing with leveling up was I need I need another forum for me to go

need I need another forum for me to go need I need another forum for me to go deep on research and teach there right

deep on research and teach there right deep on research and teach there right so I think it's really whatever works so I think it's really whatever works so I think it's really whatever works for you and if it's two podcast three

for you and if it's two podcast three for you and if it's two podcast three podcast four podcast um whatever works

podcast four podcast um whatever works podcast four podcast um whatever works for you yeah I I did remember listening

for you yeah I I did remember listening for you yeah I I did remember listening to one episode from you where you talked

to one episode from you where you talked to one episode from you where you talked literally about this where it's like Zig

literally about this where it's like Zig literally about this where it's like Zig when everyone's zagging or something

when everyone's zagging or something when everyone's zagging or something like that and it's an interesting

like that and it's an interesting like that and it's an interesting Insight because I think a lot of people

Insight because I think a lot of people Insight because I think a lot of people when they understand the power of a

when they understand the power of a when they understand the power of a podcast Channel or YouTube they you know

podcast Channel or YouTube they you know podcast Channel or YouTube they you know they go they go into it but they're not

they go they go into it but they're not they go they go into it but they're not thinking what can I do to separate when

thinking what can I do to separate when thinking what can I do to separate when more people are coming into this but the

more people are coming into this but the more people are coming into this but the only thing that gives me is I mean maybe

only thing that gives me is I mean maybe only thing that gives me is I mean maybe you know this to be true is not everyone

you know this to be true is not everyone you know this to be true is not everyone wants to do what you've done or do what

wants to do what you've done or do what wants to do what you've done or do what Mark's done or set up their own podcast

Mark's done or set up their own podcast Mark's done or set up their own podcast and get uncomfortable and make all the

and get uncomfortable and make all the and get uncomfortable and make all the mistakes right well here's what I will

mistakes right well here's what I will mistakes right well here's what I will say I mean it's the the bar to start a

say I mean it's the the bar to start a say I mean it's the the bar to start a podcast now has never been lower and so

podcast now has never been lower and so podcast now has never been lower and so you see a lot of NBA players starting

you see a lot of NBA players starting you see a lot of NBA players starting podcasts right so Paul George has a

podcasts right so Paul George has a podcasts right so Paul George has a podcast Carmelo Anthony has a podcast

podcast Carmelo Anthony has a podcast podcast Carmelo Anthony has a podcast Dwayne Wade starting a podcast LeBron

Dwayne Wade starting a podcast LeBron Dwayne Wade starting a podcast LeBron James and JJ reck just started a podcast

James and JJ reck just started a podcast James and JJ reck just started a podcast um Shannon sharp has one like everyone

um Shannon sharp has one like everyone um Shannon sharp has one like everyone has a podc podcast now right um and it's

has a podc podcast now right um and it's has a podc podcast now right um and it's it's kind of entertaining but I'm it's kind of entertaining but I'm it's kind of entertaining but I'm realizing they're all kind of just realizing they're all kind of just realizing they're all kind of just saying the same thing now and um it just

saying the same thing now and um it just saying the same thing now and um it just becomes this Echo chamber right so I do

becomes this Echo chamber right so I do becomes this Echo chamber right so I do think it's very important to Z where think it's very important to Z where think it's very important to Z where other people are zagging because what other people are zagging because what other people are zagging because what you the comments you eventually get from you the comments you eventually get from you the comments you eventually get from people are like oh my God this is such a

people are like oh my God this is such a people are like oh my God this is such a breath of fresh air right and when you breath of fresh air right and when you breath of fresh air right and when you start to get comments like that you're

start to get comments like that you're start to get comments like that you're moving in the right direction so um you

moving in the right direction so um you moving in the right direction so um you know I just the final thing I'll say

know I just the final thing I'll say know I just the final thing I'll say around this John is I realized I needed

around this John is I realized I needed around this John is I realized I needed to make a change when I met with someone

to make a change when I met with someone to make a change when I met with someone about a month ago he wanted to do like a

about a month ago he wanted to do like a about a month ago he wanted to do like a business deal with me and and when I got

business deal with me and and when I got business deal with me and and when I got with him on the call he was kind of you

with him on the call he was kind of you with him on the call he was kind of you know he didn't mean to but I could tell

know he didn't mean to but I could tell know he didn't mean to but I could tell he was kind of talking from a position he was kind of talking from a position he was kind of talking from a position of power over me right um and I just

of power over me right um and I just of power over me right um and I just kind of like Let It Go and then as we

kind of like Let It Go and then as we kind of like Let It Go and then as we talked more and more he realized he's

talked more and more he realized he's talked more and more he realized he's like oh crap like you're actually legit

like oh crap like you're actually legit like oh crap like you're actually legit I'm like what do you mean he's like well

I'm like what do you mean he's like well I'm like what do you mean he's like well I thought you were just a guy that like

I thought you were just a guy that like I thought you were just a guy that like did these YouTube podcasts but like

did these YouTube podcasts but like did these YouTube podcasts but like you're actually an entrepreneur and you're actually an entrepreneur and you're actually an entrepreneur and you're like in all these groups like ypu

you're like in all these groups like ypu you're like in all these groups like ypu and things like that I'm like well yeah

and things like that I'm like well yeah and things like that I'm like well yeah he's like yeah I wouldn't have KN one he's like yeah I wouldn't have KN one he's like yeah I wouldn't have KN one from your YouTube and I'm like okay from your YouTube and I'm like okay from your YouTube and I'm like okay something needs to something needs to something needs to change that might be true but I

change that might be true but I change that might be true but I personally find that ridiculous but it's

personally find that ridiculous but it's personally find that ridiculous but it's understandable yeah yeah it makes sense

understandable yeah yeah it makes sense understandable yeah yeah it makes sense I mean not everyone and I appreciate I mean not everyone and I appreciate I mean not everyone and I appreciate that John but it's um not everyone has

that John but it's um not everyone has that John but it's um not everyone has the time to do the research and um they

the time to do the research and um they the time to do the research and um they only see what they see right so it's

only see what they see right so it's only see what they see right so it's good that he caught that content but um

good that he caught that content but um good that he caught that content but um you know how do we how do we make it

you know how do we how do we make it you know how do we how do we make it easy to discover the whole

easy to discover the whole easy to discover the whole enchilada all right let's pivot right

enchilada all right let's pivot right enchilada all right let's pivot right back into AI are you kind of concerned

back into AI are you kind of concerned back into AI are you kind of concerned for some people that maybe they're going

for some people that maybe they're going for some people that maybe they're going to be totally lost to see and displaced

to be totally lost to see and displaced to be totally lost to see and displaced by by by AI yeah I mean I I told my team a pretty

AI yeah I mean I I told my team a pretty AI yeah I mean I I told my team a pretty crude thing two weeks ago during an all

crude thing two weeks ago during an all crude thing two weeks ago during an all hands I said um you know the book

hands I said um you know the book hands I said um you know the book sapiens no okay so there's this book

sapiens no okay so there's this book sapiens no okay so there's this book called sapiens it's a pretty popular

called sapiens it's a pretty popular called sapiens it's a pretty popular book which um I haven't read through the book which um I haven't read through the book which um I haven't read through the whole thing but I read the the the whole thing but I read the the the whole thing but I read the the the author's other book so sapiens is a

author's other book so sapiens is a author's other book so sapiens is a pretty good book um talks about the

pretty good book um talks about the pretty good book um talks about the history of mankind but he wrote he wrote history of mankind but he wrote he wrote history of mankind but he wrote he wrote this other book um I forgot the full

this other book um I forgot the full this other book um I forgot the full name of the author his name's youall but

name of the author his name's youall but name of the author his name's youall but he wrote another book called 21

he wrote another book called 21 he wrote another book called 21 questions for the 21st century and he

questions for the 21st century and he questions for the 21st century and he has a chapter in the book that talks

has a chapter in the book that talks has a chapter in the book that talks about how there will be a useless class

about how there will be a useless class about how there will be a useless class of human beings um I when you think

of human beings um I when you think of human beings um I when you think about the power of AI and Elon just said

about the power of AI and Elon just said about the power of AI and Elon just said this in the interview maybe two to three

this in the interview maybe two to three this in the interview maybe two to three days ago about how artificial

days ago about how artificial days ago about how artificial intelligence is going to be way more

intelligence is going to be way more intelligence is going to be way more powerful than biological intelligence powerful than biological intelligence powerful than biological intelligence and you just think about it this way and you just think about it this way and you just think about it this way John like you what you and I have

John like you what you and I have John like you what you and I have learned through our entire lives is just

learned through our entire lives is just learned through our entire lives is just stud studying pattern recognition and

stud studying pattern recognition and stud studying pattern recognition and when these large language models are

when these large language models are when these large language models are being trained on data they're just

being trained on data they're just being trained on data they're just detecting patterns and they're using

detecting patterns and they're using detecting patterns and they're using inference to predict the next um

inference to predict the next um inference to predict the next um whatever the answer is that you're whatever the answer is that you're whatever the answer is that you're looking for right um and that's all it

looking for right um and that's all it looking for right um and that's all it is at the end of the day it's training is at the end of the day it's training is at the end of the day it's training off of pattern recognition and so if you

off of pattern recognition and so if you off of pattern recognition and so if you think that what's lacking right now is

think that what's lacking right now is think that what's lacking right now is overall energy and compute there's going

overall energy and compute there's going overall energy and compute there's going to be more of that there's going to be to be more of that there's going to be to be more of that there's going to be more and more chips coming online um

more and more chips coming online um more and more chips coming online um technolog is going to continue to technolog is going to continue to technolog is going to continue to advance there's just no way that

advance there's just no way that advance there's just no way that computers won't be smart than us this is computers won't be smart than us this is computers won't be smart than us this is just a very beginning right now and so

just a very beginning right now and so just a very beginning right now and so if that's the case I just told the team if that's the case I just told the team if that's the case I just told the team I was like guys like I don't know about I was like guys like I don't know about I was like guys like I don't know about you I don't want to be useless right and

you I don't want to be useless right and you I don't want to be useless right and if you want to be useless like don't if you want to be useless like don't if you want to be useless like don't work here right like I I will do work here right like I I will do work here right like I I will do whatever it takes to make sure that whatever it takes to make sure that whatever it takes to make sure that you'll never be useless working at at at

you'll never be useless working at at at you'll never be useless working at at at single grain um and what that's going to

single grain um and what that's going to single grain um and what that's going to require is that's going require us to be

require is that's going require us to be require is that's going require us to be at least the top 5% of people we can

at least the top 5% of people we can at least the top 5% of people we can only hire the top 5% of people we have

only hire the top 5% of people we have only hire the top 5% of people we have to be very strong at Innovation and to

to be very strong at Innovation and to to be very strong at Innovation and to be very strong at Innovation you have to

be very strong at Innovation you have to be very strong at Innovation you have to be very strong at strategy right that's be very strong at strategy right that's be very strong at strategy right that's what's going to separate us from from what's going to separate us from from what's going to separate us from from the other people and strategy leads a the other people and strategy leads a the other people and strategy leads a good creative as well and so if that's

good creative as well and so if that's good creative as well and so if that's the case then there's going to be a lot

the case then there's going to be a lot the case then there's going to be a lot of people that are you know working off

of people that are you know working off of people that are you know working off of universal basic income if that's what

of universal basic income if that's what of universal basic income if that's what you want to call it and um here's the

you want to call it and um here's the you want to call it and um here's the other thing that that I think will other thing that that I think will other thing that that I think will actually be a blessing in disguise John actually be a blessing in disguise John actually be a blessing in disguise John so I'm going way out there right now Way so I'm going way out there right now Way so I'm going way out there right now Way Beyond marketing I think people are

Beyond marketing I think people are Beyond marketing I think people are going to realize that once they have going to realize that once they have going to realize that once they have Universal basic income and they have a

Universal basic income and they have a Universal basic income and they have a lot of time for leisure that Leisure is

lot of time for leisure that Leisure is lot of time for leisure that Leisure is actually not the objective because I

actually not the objective because I actually not the objective because I don't know about you John but maybe in don't know about you John but maybe in don't know about you John but maybe in the very beginning when we were a lot the very beginning when we were a lot the very beginning when we were a lot younger we were like you know what um I

younger we were like you know what um I younger we were like you know what um I I would rather you know I would just I would rather you know I would just I would rather you know I would just love to retire and and and and live on

love to retire and and and and live on love to retire and and and and live on the beach right and just you know and

the beach right and just you know and the beach right and just you know and just relax but that gets boring so

just relax but that gets boring so just relax but that gets boring so quickly so people are going to realize

quickly so people are going to realize quickly so people are going to realize that Leisure isn't the goal and they

that Leisure isn't the goal and they that Leisure isn't the goal and they should be productive and I think the

should be productive and I think the should be productive and I think the world's going to become a lot more world's going to become a lot more world's going to become a lot more productive with humans working on productive with humans working on productive with humans working on different things the world's going to different things the world's going to different things the world's going to become a lot more creative over time I

become a lot more creative over time I become a lot more creative over time I hope you're right in sense that you know

hope you're right in sense that you know hope you're right in sense that you know we need kind of a purpose in life and

we need kind of a purpose in life and we need kind of a purpose in life and maybe some people they just get maybe some people they just get maybe some people they just get complacent and they get into you know

complacent and they get into you know complacent and they get into you know certain pattern but I hope that's the

certain pattern but I hope that's the certain pattern but I hope that's the truth um jumping on what you just said I

truth um jumping on what you just said I truth um jumping on what you just said I talked to someone who's got an AI

talked to someone who's got an AI talked to someone who's got an AI company and I asked him a question

company and I asked him a question company and I asked him a question something similar to what you said I

something similar to what you said I something similar to what you said I said what's your take are we going to be

said what's your take are we going to be said what's your take are we going to be is it Panic or like opportunity and uh

is it Panic or like opportunity and uh is it Panic or like opportunity and uh party time and he basically said it's

party time and he basically said it's party time and he basically said it's Panic so I said what about people that

Panic so I said what about people that Panic so I said what about people that work in business intelligence and data

work in business intelligence and data work in business intelligence and data visualization he's like yeah most of

visualization he's like yeah most of visualization he's like yeah most of that could be uh replaced with AI and I

that could be uh replaced with AI and I that could be uh replaced with AI and I was like wow there's so many people

was like wow there's so many people was like wow there's so many people going into business intelligence right

going into business intelligence right going into business intelligence right now like they're literally starting a

now like they're literally starting a now like they're literally starting a career learning these skills and to

career learning these skills and to career learning these skills and to think that this could be just eliminated

think that this could be just eliminated think that this could be just eliminated so quickly I'm like I was telling people

so quickly I'm like I was telling people so quickly I'm like I was telling people a year ago this is the space to get into

a year ago this is the space to get into a year ago this is the space to get into yeah well John I think I think I

yeah well John I think I think I yeah well John I think I think I partially agree and disagree with him I

partially agree and disagree with him I partially agree and disagree with him I think shortterm with AI over the next 5

think shortterm with AI over the next 5 think shortterm with AI over the next 5 10 years there will be panic I think

10 years there will be panic I think 10 years there will be panic I think long term though it's going to be good long term though it's going to be good long term though it's going to be good it's going to be net positive for it's going to be net positive for it's going to be net positive for society because when we think about society because when we think about society because when we think about every Revolution that's happened in every Revolution that's happened in every Revolution that's happened in Industrial Revolution a lot of farmers Industrial Revolution a lot of farmers Industrial Revolution a lot of farmers were displaced right and then they found

were displaced right and then they found were displaced right and then they found different work so and then they panicked different work so and then they panicked different work so and then they panicked in very beginning oh my God we're all in very beginning oh my God we're all in very beginning oh my God we're all going to lose our jobs right um the

going to lose our jobs right um the going to lose our jobs right um the printing press when that first came out printing press when that first came out printing press when that first came out like things change over time and I do

like things change over time and I do like things change over time and I do believe that because we're adding more

believe that because we're adding more believe that because we're adding more intelligence to the world that it's intelligence to the world that it's intelligence to the world that it's going to be a net lift for everyone it's going to be a net lift for everyone it's going to be a net lift for everyone it's gonna be a rising tide lifts all lifts

gonna be a rising tide lifts all lifts gonna be a rising tide lifts all lifts all boats and but again people are going

all boats and but again people are going all boats and but again people are going to freak out I think it over the next to freak out I think it over the next to freak out I think it over the next five ten years but I think it'll balance

five ten years but I think it'll balance five ten years but I think it'll balance out over time okay uh pivoting to

out over time okay uh pivoting to out over time okay uh pivoting to something else if people say that

something else if people say that something else if people say that someone that goes from sales and someone that goes from sales and someone that goes from sales and marketing they'd be a good fit and then

marketing they'd be a good fit and then marketing they'd be a good fit and then people that go from marketing to sales

people that go from marketing to sales people that go from marketing to sales it's like you bring insites into another

it's like you bring insites into another it's like you bring insites into another another um field so would you say that

another um field so would you say that another um field so would you say that from your uh experience being on the

from your uh experience being on the from your uh experience being on the digital marketing side maybe I'm

digital marketing side maybe I'm digital marketing side maybe I'm assuming Less on the affiliate marketing

assuming Less on the affiliate marketing assuming Less on the affiliate marketing side what could people in the e-commerce

side what could people in the e-commerce side what could people in the e-commerce space pull into affiliate marketing that

space pull into affiliate marketing that space pull into affiliate marketing that would kind of give them um give them a

would kind of give them um give them a would kind of give them um give them a level up or an edge yeah so on the

level up or an edge yeah so on the level up or an edge yeah so on the e-commerce side let's see so e-commerce

e-commerce side let's see so e-commerce e-commerce side let's see so e-commerce people very F I mean Affiliates are very

people very F I mean Affiliates are very people very F I mean Affiliates are very focused on the numbers as well focused on the numbers as well focused on the numbers as well especially their numbers um and on the

especially their numbers um and on the especially their numbers um and on the e-commerce side there's a lot of I think

e-commerce side there's a lot of I think e-commerce side there's a lot of I think people are very open to experimentation

people are very open to experimentation people are very open to experimentation they're very open to trying new products

they're very open to trying new products they're very open to trying new products new Services New tools I think people in

new Services New tools I think people in new Services New tools I think people in e-commerce are very open to Partnerships

e-commerce are very open to Partnerships e-commerce are very open to Partnerships as well um I think a lot of Affiliates

as well um I think a lot of Affiliates as well um I think a lot of Affiliates they like to work as as kind of solo

they like to work as as kind of solo they like to work as as kind of solo guns um and so I think that's something

guns um and so I think that's something guns um and so I think that's something they can learn as well but a lot of

they can learn as well but a lot of they can learn as well but a lot of things you know when I think about things you know when I think about things you know when I think about Affiliates Affiliates are very rapid

Affiliates Affiliates are very rapid Affiliates Affiliates are very rapid testers they move very quickly and

testers they move very quickly and testers they move very quickly and they're quick to try new things too um

they're quick to try new things too um they're quick to try new things too um same thing with Ecom people right and so

same thing with Ecom people right and so same thing with Ecom people right and so I I think at the end of the day it comes I I think at the end of the day it comes I I think at the end of the day it comes down to a lot of Ecom people that I know

down to a lot of Ecom people that I know down to a lot of Ecom people that I know are at at the next level it comes down

are at at the next level it comes down are at at the next level it comes down to the relationships that they're to the relationships that they're to the relationships that they're willing to build so whether it comes to willing to build so whether it comes to willing to build so whether it comes to Partnerships or um with people or the

Partnerships or um with people or the Partnerships or um with people or the people that they hire I think they know people that they hire I think they know people that they hire I think they know how to build teams they know how to work how to build teams they know how to work how to build teams they know how to work with people and they know how to scale with people and they know how to scale with people and they know how to scale big businesses so I think that you know

big businesses so I think that you know big businesses so I think that you know bring bring that over to Affiliates will bring bring that over to Affiliates will bring bring that over to Affiliates will take Affiliates in the next level take Affiliates in the next level take Affiliates in the next level because when I speak at like an because when I speak at like an because when I speak at like an affiliate world or something like that

affiliate world or something like that affiliate world or something like that um people are very focused much more on

um people are very focused much more on um people are very focused much more on me me me I think you know big e-commerce

I think you know big e-commerce I think you know big e-commerce companies are much more focused on Wii

companies are much more focused on Wii companies are much more focused on Wii and that helps everybody grow makes

and that helps everybody grow makes and that helps everybody grow makes sense um next question is as someone who

sense um next question is as someone who sense um next question is as someone who invests in companies and startups what

invests in companies and startups what invests in companies and startups what are you looking for in Founders as well

are you looking for in Founders as well are you looking for in Founders as well as businesses to invest in yeah so one

as businesses to invest in yeah so one as businesses to invest in yeah so one obvious thing would be so when I look to obvious thing would be so when I look to obvious thing would be so when I look to invest in companies I look for a large invest in companies I look for a large invest in companies I look for a large Tam so a large total addressable Market

Tam so a large total addressable Market Tam so a large total addressable Market but the biggest thing that I look for is

but the biggest thing that I look for is but the biggest thing that I look for is I'm looking for a killer and let me give I'm looking for a killer and let me give I'm looking for a killer and let me give you an example so I invested in a

you an example so I invested in a you an example so I invested in a company called Eight sleep and I

company called Eight sleep and I company called Eight sleep and I actually spoke to the CEO last week we

actually spoke to the CEO last week we actually spoke to the CEO last week we did a live podcast in Miami and his

did a live podcast in Miami and his did a live podcast in Miami and his name's Mato Mato you know he played he

name's Mato Mato you know he played he name's Mato Mato you know he played he played Sports hardcore he raced cars

played Sports hardcore he raced cars played Sports hardcore he raced cars before as well and the the key thing

before as well and the the key thing before as well and the the key thing about him is that he sees this as a

about him is that he sees this as a about him is that he sees this as a company that he's just going to work on company that he's just going to work on company that he's just going to work on for the next 10 20 30 years so he has a

for the next 10 20 30 years so he has a for the next 10 20 30 years so he has a very long time Horizon too so sleep

very long time Horizon too so sleep very long time Horizon too so sleep obviously that affects the entire world

obviously that affects the entire world obviously that affects the entire world initially I was like okay how big can initially I was like okay how big can initially I was like okay how big can this be this seems like a mattress this be this seems like a mattress this be this seems like a mattress company it's not it can't be that big

company it's not it can't be that big company it's not it can't be that big right when I spoke to him his vision's

right when I spoke to him his vision's right when I spoke to him his vision's there it's relentless Focus as well he

there it's relentless Focus as well he there it's relentless Focus as well he said this the the Sleep Products that

said this the the Sleep Products that said this the the Sleep Products that we're building eventually they're going we're building eventually they're going we're building eventually they're going to have the ability to MRI you and check

to have the ability to MRI you and check to have the ability to MRI you and check if you have any issues with your body if you have any issues with your body if you have any issues with your body and make recommendations I'm like oh and make recommendations I'm like oh and make recommendations I'm like oh then you can when you make these then you can when you make these then you can when you make these recommendations you can collect an recommendations you can collect an recommendations you can collect an affiliate cut on these as well he's like affiliate cut on these as well he's like affiliate cut on these as well he's like yeah that that's that's maybe where we

yeah that that's that's maybe where we yeah that that's that's maybe where we might go and he's constantly shipping

might go and he's constantly shipping might go and he's constantly shipping he's constantly looking for ideas he's he's constantly looking for ideas he's he's constantly looking for ideas he's learning all the time as well so a lot

learning all the time as well so a lot learning all the time as well so a lot comes from the founder the founder has comes from the founder the founder has comes from the founder the founder has this invisible Hammer where they can

this invisible Hammer where they can this invisible Hammer where they can just make things happen and so you want

just make things happen and so you want just make things happen and so you want a Founder that's a a machine when it

a Founder that's a a machine when it a Founder that's a a machine when it comes to learning very open-minded

comes to learning very open-minded comes to learning very open-minded founder founder founder um you know very focused founder as well

um you know very focused founder as well um you know very focused founder as well and someone that just works on it all and someone that just works on it all and someone that just works on it all the time and that's totally him that's the time and that's totally him that's the time and that's totally him that's all he thinks about and now I'm like

all he thinks about and now I'm like all he thinks about and now I'm like okay this is not just GNA be a okay this is not just GNA be a okay this is not just GNA be a multi-billion dollar company it can

multi-billion dollar company it can multi-billion dollar company it can probably be a multi it could probably be

probably be a multi it could probably be probably be a multi it could probably be a trillion dollar plus company um over a

a trillion dollar plus company um over a a trillion dollar plus company um over a longtime Horizon right so I hope that's

longtime Horizon right so I hope that's longtime Horizon right so I hope that's the case but that's a good example of

the case but that's a good example of the case but that's a good example of that very insightful I hope uh that's

that very insightful I hope uh that's that very insightful I hope uh that's kind of what I think I am but uh that's

kind of what I think I am but uh that's kind of what I think I am but uh that's for someone else to judge but um very

for someone else to judge but um very for someone else to judge but um very good insights and I try to look at other

good insights and I try to look at other good insights and I try to look at other Founders when they give me other pict

Founders when they give me other pict Founders when they give me other pict decks to share to investors and I'm

decks to share to investors and I'm decks to share to investors and I'm looking for the same thing I'm like I looking for the same thing I'm like I looking for the same thing I'm like I can't refer you unless I believe in you

can't refer you unless I believe in you can't refer you unless I believe in you too right and then the other thing John

too right and then the other thing John too right and then the other thing John too is you have to believe in the too is you have to believe in the too is you have to believe in the founder because you're betting on the founder because you're betting on the founder because you're betting on the jockey but also do you do you believe in

jockey but also do you do you believe in jockey but also do you do you believe in the space right so I I'm really into

the space right so I I'm really into the space right so I I'm really into longevity health I'm into the blockchain

longevity health I'm into the blockchain longevity health I'm into the blockchain as well and so I'm into those things I'm

as well and so I'm into those things I'm as well and so I'm into those things I'm gonna bet on it and um I'm I'm okay

gonna bet on it and um I'm I'm okay gonna bet on it and um I'm I'm okay looking at this as I'm probably GNA lose

looking at this as I'm probably GNA lose looking at this as I'm probably GNA lose 99% of my bets and hopefully that 1%

99% of my bets and hopefully that 1% 99% of my bets and hopefully that 1% makes up for everything because John I I

makes up for everything because John I I makes up for everything because John I I have a buddy and and maybe you do too

have a buddy and and maybe you do too have a buddy and and maybe you do too but you know he put like a $25,000 check

but you know he put like a $25,000 check but you know he put like a $25,000 check into this this one company and it became

into this this one company and it became into this this one company and it became like uh became $80 million for him right

like uh became $80 million for him right like uh became $80 million for him right so those are the types of home runs that

so those are the types of home runs that so those are the types of home runs that you're looking for I wish one day uh

you're looking for I wish one day uh you're looking for I wish one day uh last question is what do you see as the last question is what do you see as the last question is what do you see as the future of affiliate marketing as it

future of affiliate marketing as it future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business

intersects with business intersects with business intelligence yeah I I'll give you um

intelligence yeah I I'll give you um intelligence yeah I I'll give you um maybe this is a side answer I was maybe this is a side answer I was maybe this is a side answer I was talking about this with my actually so

talking about this with my actually so talking about this with my actually so we're building a new product internally

we're building a new product internally we're building a new product internally and I said look you know with with AI I

and I said look you know with with AI I and I said look you know with with AI I I'll do AI plus affiliate

I'll do AI plus affiliate I'll do AI plus affiliate so right now the the problem with

so right now the the problem with so right now the the problem with affiliate so let's say we're talking affiliate so let's say we're talking affiliate so let's say we're talking about a couple different products right about a couple different products right about a couple different products right now on this podcast we're not going to

now on this podcast we're not going to now on this podcast we're not going to go out of our way to make at least for

go out of our way to make at least for go out of our way to make at least for me I'm not going to go out of my way to me I'm not going to go out of my way to me I'm not going to go out of my way to make all these affiliate links now

make all these affiliate links now make all these affiliate links now imagine if you have an AI out there that

imagine if you have an AI out there that imagine if you have an AI out there that will automatically say hey John I will

will automatically say hey John I will will automatically say hey John I will go out there and uh make these affiliate

go out there and uh make these affiliate go out there and uh make these affiliate links for you automatically okay and

links for you automatically okay and links for you automatically okay and maybe we'll take a five 10 perent cut on

maybe we'll take a five 10 perent cut on maybe we'll take a five 10 perent cut on every sale every affiliate sale that you

every sale every affiliate sale that you every sale every affiliate sale that you get and it just scales out right like

get and it just scales out right like get and it just scales out right like someone needs to build that solution and

someone needs to build that solution and someone needs to build that solution and um that's going to be really interesting um that's going to be really interesting um that's going to be really interesting because people just don't have the time because people just don't have the time because people just don't have the time to make these things it's to manual I

to make these things it's to manual I to make these things it's to manual I agree we're actually working on agree we're actually working on agree we're actually working on something similar where we're not sure

something similar where we're not sure something similar where we're not sure if we want to become an affiliate if we want to become an affiliate if we want to become an affiliate network but we think we want to become

network but we think we want to become network but we think we want to become like something like a tracking like something like a tracking like something like a tracking technology where it's the analytics but

technology where it's the analytics but technology where it's the analytics but it's also the adte so what we're looking

it's also the adte so what we're looking it's also the adte so what we're looking to do is take the design the programming

to do is take the design the programming to do is take the design the programming and the data away from Affiliates so and the data away from Affiliates so and the data away from Affiliates so imagine you can say well give me a list

imagine you can say well give me a list imagine you can say well give me a list of products in this market and give me

of products in this market and give me of products in this market and give me the entire list of them give me the the entire list of them give me the the entire list of them give me the comparison tables and just powered by

comparison tables and just powered by comparison tables and just powered by data so it's compliant and does

data so it's compliant and does data so it's compliant and does everything and the idea is that it

everything and the idea is that it everything and the idea is that it should be powered by your own data well

should be powered by your own data well should be powered by your own data well what's converting better what's what's converting better what's what's converting better what's converting better over time so yeah so

converting better over time so yeah so converting better over time so yeah so it sounds like it might be a closed it sounds like it might be a closed it sounds like it might be a closed model you can have an open model too but

model you can have an open model too but model you can have an open model too but all the data that you're going to have all the data that you're going to have all the data that you're going to have down the road I mean these are all down the road I mean these are all down the road I mean these are all patterns and you can figure out what you patterns and you can figure out what you patterns and you can figure out what you want to do with that too so that's

want to do with that too so that's want to do with that too so that's exciting yeah the AI Playbook is almost

exciting yeah the AI Playbook is almost exciting yeah the AI Playbook is almost infinite and that's why I like talking

infinite and that's why I like talking infinite and that's why I like talking with AI advisers going what should we do

with AI advisers going what should we do with AI advisers going what should we do and they all say the same thing they're

and they all say the same thing they're and they all say the same thing they're like do not share your data with anyone

like do not share your data with anyone like do not share your data with anyone it's it's like don't partner with the AI

it's it's like don't partner with the AI it's it's like don't partner with the AI company yet it's uh be patient totally

company yet it's uh be patient totally company yet it's uh be patient totally Eric how can will get a hold of you I

Eric how can will get a hold of you I Eric how can will get a hold of you I think most people know but we'll include

think most people know but we'll include think most people know but we'll include all the links in the show notes yeah you

all the links in the show notes yeah you all the links in the show notes yeah you can follow me on Twitter or Instagram

can follow me on Twitter or Instagram can follow me on Twitter or Instagram it's ericos as in Sugar IU so Eric OU

it's ericos as in Sugar IU so Eric OU it's ericos as in Sugar IU so Eric OU and you can go to YouTube just search and you can go to YouTube just search and you can go to YouTube just search for leveling up with Eric Sue or you can for leveling up with Eric Sue or you can for leveling up with Eric Sue or you can search for marketing school there and

search for marketing school there and search for marketing school there and those are the best ways to to find uh

those are the best ways to to find uh those are the best ways to to find uh all the stuff that we do awesome thank

all the stuff that we do awesome thank all the stuff that we do awesome thank you so much for doing this thanks for

you so much for doing this thanks for you so much for doing this thanks for having

having having me thank you for tuning in to the

me thank you for tuning in to the me thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor leave

this time to ask for a small favor leave this time to ask for a small favor leave a rating and review wherever you listen

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