The Best Easy Link Building Strategies with Jabez Reuben

Show: Revenue Optimization with StatsDrone
Episode: The Best Easy Link Building Strategies with Jabez Reuben
Host: John Wright
Guest: Jabez Reuben
Published: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 00:50:00 +0000
Duration: 44:35

Speaker labels are a two-speaker split from pauses (host vs guest). Timestamps are `[HH:MM:SS]` from the episode audio. Light ASR; names and brands may need a pass.

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[00:00:00] John Wright: I would say business intelligence, not just with affiliate marketing, but in general, if you're not tracking your data, you're losing out like your money. You're losing out your time. You can be promoting an affiliate product that's not giving you the returns compared to the amount of time and effort you put in. Whereas if there can be affiliate programs or products where that are giving you returns with minimal effort, they got to be doubling down on those kinds of products and those affiliate programs. But to know that which products are performing well, which are not performing well, you need to have everything documented. You need to have data.

[00:00:37] John Wright: You need to have everything clear in front of you so you can put in your efforts where you can have maximum output.

[00:00:47] Jabez Reuben: I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate BI, the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by StaffStraw.

[00:00:57] John Wright: Welcome to the affiliate BI podcast. Today we're chatting with Jabez Rubin, who is the founder of the blueprints, linkvalidator.io and Vistavo. Maybe I've not said that correctly, but this tells me that, you know, quite a bit about both SEO and SaaS. So I'm excited to chat. Uh, Jabez, welcome to the show.

[00:01:17] Jabez Reuben: Thanks for having me on, John.

[00:01:19] John Wright: So link building is clearly one of your strengths. I mean, you got a SaaS tool built around it. So I want to talk about what do you think link building should look like post helpful content update.

[00:01:31] Jabez Reuben: All right. So I think post helpful, a bit, helpful content update at the SEO update, our emphasis has been on building links more properly. By that, I mean, the rules we follow now is diversify your backing profile even more than before. So by diversifying, what, what we mean is don't just use one strategy to build your backlinks. Use Arrow, use digital PR, use, uh, link insertions, use guest posts. And anything else that you think you can think of, you know, image outreach, guide scraper, we use multiple options to build links.

[00:02:09] Jabez Reuben: And then when, even when you are building those links, put in extra effort. By that, I mean, when you're doing guest posts, don't just randomly be a, be a link agency, or even if you're building it in house, many times we just don't keep a notice of the topics that we are publishing for the guest posts. Right. So make sure you're putting in extra effort, make sure the topics that you're selecting are diversified as well.

[00:02:36] John Wright: They add more value to your money pages, to your homepage, to your overall brand. And, uh, the structure of all those articles, all those guest posts is also highly optimized use, you know, don't just have each one's issues and just blocks of text have more formatting, have more, you know, export comments in there, have more tables, have more structures. So put in an extra bit of effort to every, every link that you're building. Guess you build a guest post now, request the webmaster to send some internal links, be them extra money, a small bit of money to send extra

[00:03:15] John Wright: bafflings. If you build a link, if you're building links via link insertions, don't just add one sentence, build a whole, uh, add each two and a paragraph that adds more value so that even the each two that you select for a link insertion should add more value to your link. So our goal right now is yes, diversify even more, but and number two is add more value to every single step of your link building process. Okay. That's interesting. Cause I mean, I have a one site that I still sell links on. I mean, we get people buying links all the time and I just find, uh, you know,

[00:03:54] John Wright: sometimes I learn a couple of their tips and tricks cause they're like, I really want them to structure the content this way. And then they typically go to the way for equality, but to this date, no one's ever asked for, Hey, can you take other pages and link internally to it? And can you also link from that page to another page to make it look a bit more organic?

[00:04:16] Jabez Reuben: Right. So yeah, it's, it's such a simple, easy process. We've just use a standard template. So once you publish the thing is, uh, when we request this thing, don't, we don't try to send all the details in one go to the webmaster, they can get overwhelmed, they can get irritated, publish, kept the link published. And before you make the payment, send, Hey, I'll pay you $5 extra. I'll pay you $10 extra.

[00:04:41] Jabez Reuben: Can you send two external, uh, two more internal links and you still them. Okay. I want the internal links going from this page and this page.

[00:04:49] Jabez Reuben: So it doesn't take much of time. Their masters will be happy. They're just internal links going extra 10 bucks. That's true. Yeah. So just adds more value to your guest posts. A good tip. So would you agree that great links, um, with either bad content or bad user experience kind of defeats the purpose of a good link?

[00:05:14] John Wright: All right. So link coming from bad content. That's not ranking has no value, right? So I would say, or has very little back link coming from a page that's ranking

[00:05:28] John Wright: and has no bad user interface still has value. Right. So you have to, what we look into is what's, how is Google seeing the page is if in Google's eyes, the page is doing well, irrespective of the content or the UX. So if, if we will think that page is good, let's get the link from that page. And we usually use your tools like it traps to find out which, which pages of a site are performing well.

[00:05:58] Jabez Reuben: Right. And, uh, and other than that, if you're, if you're going for guest posts, uh, and you're trying to vet and you're trying to figure out crappy sites, usually a very sloppy design will give away that it's a link farm or not a site that, uh, is being, uh, worked on a lot. So we try to, you know, just, uh, avoid those kinds of sites. Okay. So going back to talking about sites that have been maybe hit with different Google updates, especially affiliate sites, would you say they need to pivot beyond just building really good links? Like perhaps they can, would you say they should like productize their site or what would you advise to an affiliate that's actually in that position right now?

[00:06:38] John Wright: So, uh, thanks to, uh, our Chiang Mai SEO community, we have a lot of good affiliate SEO experts here and we get to see what they are doing. And one of the common fact, uh, things that a lot of, uh, smart SEOs are doing is pivoting to YouTube SEOs and that Algo is really helpful right now. The YouTube SEO Algo. So, uh, and also the trust factor is really high when you're putting out videos, so the conversions are better. So a lot of, uh, focus has been lately on moving to video content, video, especially YouTube, uh, a full-age video.

[00:07:14] John Wright: So I think definitely, even if your site is still performing well, don't rely on your site, definitely pivot to other mediums. And I think of all those mediums, number one should be YouTube SEO.

[00:07:28] Jabez Reuben: I agree.

[00:07:30] John Wright: I think one thing that I've noticed from Matt Diggity, I mean, I kind of like to call it his strategy. I don't think he invented it, but he always has this long form piece of content, but he always has a video to go with it. So I think he's doing, you know, maybe one long form piece of content per week with one well put together video per week, and, um, it does pretty well. I mean, I think he does admit that the video does a lot better than the written piece of content, but his written content is always ranking.

[00:07:58] Jabez Reuben: Right. Right. And now also there are so many, uh, services coming where coming up, like there's a company called Epic dot video. They just take your, if you're not good with making videos, you can just outsource without spending a lot. And you'll get really good quality videos of made from your blog content. So if you're written an affiliate content review about a product, just send place an order with them and with the proper face, with the proper actor, you will publish a really compelling and well converting video for your YouTube channel.

[00:08:37] John Wright: And would you say that, um, that should be something affiliates should spend a bit more time on? I mean, when it comes to the B2B space, I think my personal take is that a lot of the SEOs that do podcasts that are on video, they're, they're actually winning more of the business with all this disruption and these updates. And I'm just thinking that when I look at the affiliate space, there are some affiliates that do video, but I kind of personally think not enough.

[00:09:03] Jabez Reuben: Right. And also like producing video can take time, you know, it's time consuming. You might get overwhelmed with the whole process. Some people are perfectionists of the, I mean, I struggled with creating a script, you know, even for too many video, I'll take forever to get my head around and approve a script. So I think if you've got the budget, best thing is to just outsource and you can find a reliable company to understand the quality and the kind of, you know, fee you want for your videos and just get it outsource and get it done by them. And at the same time, you can keep practicing your own video production

[00:09:40] Jabez Reuben: style as well, if you think ultimately you want to create those videos, keep practicing on the side, tell you think, okay, I've got it now and I'll just produce all the content myself, but definitely yeah, great. The video growth is a top priority for us right now. Okay. We were, we were chatting offline earlier and then we're talking about like all the little tiny details that, you know, everyone has to think about. So, I mean, you know, again, being on the side of actually selling links, you know, I get requests all over the place. People are like, I want my anchor text to be this. And then you're kind of like, well, what is the best strategy? Then you go on Ahrefs and you start trying to decompose what

[00:10:20] Jabez Reuben: the best affiliates are doing. So I'm just wondering, what would you recommend our best practices for trying to optimize for anchor text, but not be so over-optimized that, you know, you end up with a penalty.

[00:10:33] John Wright: Right. So I'll go back to my, the first question we, we had, you know, what's the strategy we're using for the overall backlink profile and diversification of your anchor text is also what I will add to that. You know, you're not just talking about diversify how you build links, but also all these details of diversification of your anchor text profile. So by that, I mean, don't just use targeted anchors. Use a mix of all anchors. So URL anchor, branded anchor, miscellaneous anchors, partial mix.

[00:11:09] John Wright: I think miscellaneous and branded anchor then and URL anchors can be used a bit more compared to others.

[00:11:17] John Wright: So we tend to be heavy on the heavier side, use the use branded URL, miscellaneous anchors more than targeted anchors. I think targeted anchors should be used sparingly. And if you go over, you over-optimize on targeted anchors, you can

[00:11:38] Jabez Reuben: target, you can trigger a penalty. So that's something to be careful of. People say, always see, you know, what your competitor is doing. I think, yes, see what the competitors are doing, analyze, but at the same time, you know, you have to plan for the long run. Don't just see what your competitors are doing. Okay. The competitors are doing do a bit of what they are doing. No, they can average what they're doing, but if all of them are using a targeted anchors heavily, don't just play it out.

[00:12:09] John Wright: Start using targeted anchors heavily because you never know, like one of your competitors, competitors can get hit in any of the updates and you don't want to be one of them as well. So analyze the competitors, but at the same time, make sure you are using your own strategy as well. And what we suggest is diversify your anchor profile. And with that, I mean, use 20% not more than 20% of targeted anchors and rest 80 mix up all the remaining types of anchor text. And would you say the same thing for internal anchor text?

[00:12:45] Jabez Reuben: Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely.

[00:12:48] Jabez Reuben: Cause also mixing.

[00:12:51] John Wright: Oh, one or two, what keywords and long tail keywords as well. Okay. And I guess when you're talking about the 80%, that could be like, you know, this page here, you know, just like random things that are all over the place. Okay. Absolutely. And would you say that that's one of the lowest hanging fruits for any affiliate site or any website that they're just simply not doing any of this good internal linking?

[00:13:18] Jabez Reuben: Yes. I think, uh, for internal linking, if you just work, figure out your anchor text profile, you can see really good results. Actually, uh, I think this was Matt's case study somewhere or some of the FCOs had released where for internal links, uh, going a bit heavier with targeted anchors were giving better results and they were being saved through the updates as well. I haven't come across any study post-it-cu update. So I can't say if that's still working well post-it-cu, but pre-it-cu

[00:13:54] Jabez Reuben: update, um, going heavier with, uh, uh, targeted anchors for your internal links was working better.

[00:14:03] John Wright: Would you say that's something that if you have been hit with, uh, you know, helpful content update that at least do that, like I've got some friends of their comp, like, I don't know what to do. I've tried this. I've tried that. They have great backlinks. They've got amazing content that's authority and perfect design. And they're like, what else can I do?

[00:14:23] Jabez Reuben: There's so many, like there hasn't been any concrete, um, you know, solution for recovery for it's you. I've seen sites recover people sharing, um, updates about, okay, I recovered this site. In fact, one of our sites we started past three weeks, we started, um, seeing very good, uh, gains back on that site, but we really cannot pinpoint. Okay. This strategy work on that strategy work. Yes. Work on your internal rework on your anchor profile, internal and external, but do rest of the other things as well to, to see which one works for you.

[00:14:57] John Wright: One thing I did notice, uh, or was that, um, some of the sites that didn't, so we were trying to analyze sites that got hit versus sites that didn't get it. And accidentally I came across sites where, uh, especially the, these were in YM wild nation finance, uh, sites where finance launch sites and these were being grown by not like you can say influencers or, you know, experts in, in, in, in a field, you know, it was, is what is a big brand? It was a person's own brand. And one thing I noticed that yes, they were gaining traffic, but when I

[00:15:37] John Wright: checked the backlink profile, uh, an interesting observation I saw was that a lot of backlinks, they got the article talk more about that person than his website or his brand.

[00:15:50] John Wright: So that gave, uh, um, a lot of eat factors because then you, you are really solidifying your expertise with people talking more about you because anyways, you're getting a link to your site. Right. So, and, um, I haven't seen, um, a lot of, you know, whenever we get guest post orders, everyone would say, okay, just send a link to this page. My product page, talk about the product.

[00:16:17] John Wright: Very few people or none would talk about the author, you know, that so by what we need to do, right. And we have already, we implemented this strategy for one of our site that got hit and has, is on the way to recovery is the published guest posts and articles, uh, talking about the author, the writer and how this writer is doing XYZ and,

[00:16:42] John Wright: and yes, the backlink is coming to the main site, but the emphasis is on the author, so I think that's adding more eat factor as well and more trust in the eyes of Google's about the auto. Now, are you doing anchor texts that are targeting the author as a mix of some of those keywords mix? Yes. And also if you're doing, if you're running arrow, if your outsourced or running in house arrow, you will get a lot of, uh, links to your site on, on the author's name, but that's also a good strategy to build backlinks.

[00:17:20] John Wright: But other than that, when we are doing guest posts, we are using a mix of, uh, auto and because I using authors in the, in the anchor, you can even have long bill anchors like a job is driven from the blueprints, right? The whole anchor. So you can mix brand and anchor brand and auto together.

[00:17:39] John Wright: Okay. And not to say that, you know, this is going to be a solution to solve any penalized site, but, uh, like just going back to one of my friend sites where it's an affiliate site, it's in the eye gaming space, amazing design. Um, like the guy, I think is actually a pretty decent author, but I don't think he's done as much on that side. So I'm just wondering, do you think maybe Harrow would be a good opportunity for him to say, Hey, you know, I'm an expert in this space. And I've also been hit where he's actually done a couple articles where people featured him saying, and here's an example of a site where he is the expert in this field, but Google just said, no, thanks.

[00:18:19] Jabez Reuben: Can we, one of the factors, you know, I cannot say that if this will fully help in the recovery process, but it can be one of the factors that add to the whole Ola recovery process. Right.

[00:18:31] John Wright: Okay. Let's go, let's go back to some of these, uh, link building tips on maybe it's more on the buyer side, but I think we'll jump on both sides of the fence. I mean, I think most of our audience is typically looking to either buy or build links. So would you say there are any tips when you're trying to get links from sites, like, you know, in terms of negotiations or things like that?

[00:18:55] Jabez Reuben: Yeah.

[00:18:56] Jabez Reuben: Um, I'm an Indian, a really, we love to bargain. So it comes in naturally for us. So the first thing is like, whenever you're reaching out to a site and they offer, you know, I charge like 100 bucks, just don't agree right away. Always negotiate. So even if you don't know how to negotiate the baby, then we can say is, Hey, can I get it for $80? My, my budget is really tight. Right. So that's the, that's the simplest way to bargain. The other thing is you first see the quality of the site and also the tone of the,

[00:19:32] Jabez Reuben: the buyer, if the, of the seller, if the seller is saying we settle for a hundred bucks, non-negotiate, but then don't negotiate at all. They'll, if you try to negotiate, they will block you off. And if, yeah, if they have said, the second thing is, is you see the quality of the site, if you, if you see that this site is really worked on. The, the webmaster is putting in a lot of effort. Then you, you can say negotiate, but don't negotiate very hard. Like sometimes we see, okay, this site has random pages as well. It looks like, okay, they have decent traffic, but they also sending guests posts. So we'll go, okay, let's reduce from a hundred bucks. Let's offer them 60 bucks. All right.

[00:20:12] Jabez Reuben: So that, that much we can go. But if you think, you know, the site is really, really focused on one topic. The it's not looking outright as a guest post farm or some other site that's selling guest posts. Then, just go a little bit, you know, just maybe 80. Okay. Never shit for $80 or $90. Not, not much. And then other templates fix that you can use a heap that talk about. Sorry. Like, I mean, I know your side is really great. I would love to, you know, pay what you're asking for, but unfortunately my business has been hit lately and this is the max we can afford right now. Also another thing, another point, this works really well for us is this is what

[00:20:51] Jabez Reuben: we are paying other DR 45 sites as well. And this is what we are playing other DR 50 or whatever, like check the domain or DA of the site and say, this is what we are paying other DR XYZ site as well. So that, that will give them an impression. Okay. This guy is buying regularly. So he knows what the market price is that that has also helped us a lot while renegotiate for guest posts on LinkedIn sessions. Yeah. That would be more pleasant if I had any of those offers come on the sites that, you know, we do sell a few links on because the ones we do get, it's like, you

[00:21:26] Jabez Reuben: know, we're looking at charge 350 for a blog post and they're like, I have $5 or I'll pay you 50. And it's like, you know, it's just so insulting. And they're like, my max budget is like $5. I'm like, don't care. It's it's so brutal. You're just like, you do actually want to block. And, and a lot of these people I know are actually working as virtual systems on behalf of these agencies. And I'm like, I think they're probably missing out on a lot, a lot of opportunities because the next time they come around, it's like, I don't want to deal with them.

[00:22:00] John Wright: Right. Yeah. And that's what I said. Well, as engaged by the foster plan that you get from webmaster, you'll see whether this webmaster is even up for negotiations or not, if, and if you can clearly like see that they don't want to negotiate, you'll get blocked if you try to negotiate. And the second thing is look for the quality of the site. See if it's even bought negotiating. If the site is of great quality, you will again, lose your chance to get a link by trying to negotiate or trying to negotiate hard.

[00:22:29] John Wright: So yeah, look for those two pointers before you can try to negotiate.

[00:22:33] Jabez Reuben: Okay. Now we've got like an even more detailed list of like things you were chatting about before. So let's talk about image outreach. What does this look like?

[00:22:44] John Wright: Why? So image outreach. So the way image outreach works is, okay, there's a black hat way and I'll call there's a wide gray hat way. The black hat way was where, and this was, I won't say who coined this term or this strategy, but what they were doing with black hat image outreach was just pick any random good performing image and they'll find out who, which all sites are using this image and start reaching out to those sites using a persona of a lawyer and say, Hey, you are using my client's site. I have client's image.

[00:23:23] John Wright: You need to give credits to my client or real file a case. So that was a pure black hat way. And now people will just, you know, August being scared and we'll give them links. So when I came across this site, this strategy, I'm like, there should be a better way to do it. It's a good idea, but like of images and it should be a better way to do it. So what I started doing was we started creating images from scratch and we would, so there's a whole process of how you come up with images. So let's say you're in the health space. So we'll figure we use Ahrefs content explorer to figure out ideas, keywords

[00:24:01] John Wright: on which we, we need to create images. And then we create those images, high quality images and upload them on slash XS, and all the free image hosting websites. And then let them sit for months, five months, six months, eight months. And then, uh, after, after X amount of seven, eight months, you will see, you know, downloads, um, on your images and you just right click, do a image Google image search, and you'll start seeing which all sites are using your images, then you reach out to them politely. This is the important part of you need to reach out great politely or else

[00:24:39] John Wright: you'll get again, get banned from these image hosting websites. When you reach out to them, I'll tell them, Hey, I'm so glad you using my image. I'm glad it's all helped to you. Would you mind helping me out with a link? It will help me create more such images in our niche. So that's how you ask for a link and return. And so, and there are my minor details of how you do for the enhanced this outreach. So one thing I talked about is you need to do a bit of research on what kind of topics keywords still use. Well, before you start building those images, then when you are creating

[00:25:15] John Wright: those image profiles on unsplash fixer bay, make sure you clearly mentioned that all images are created by, and then add your website name so that when people ask for proof of ownership, you can tell them, they can look in those profiles that I'm the creator on my website is the creator of all this. So that's how it works. I think it's an evergreen way of getting backlinks for free. We have never paid. If you, if someone has asked you us to pay, we've only obliged to pay if the quality of the site was really great. Most of it, I would say 95% of the time we never had to have to pay.

[00:25:53] John Wright: And the downloads only keep increasing each month. So, you know, you put in effort while in the start of your link building campaign, build those images and let them sit and, you know, month after month, you'll just get more and more prospects to get back free backlinks from.

[00:26:13] Jabez Reuben: Sounds very clever. I mean, when you first started sharing the story about like, you know, Hey, I'm pretending to be a lawyer and saying, you know, my client's website. I was like, wow, this is pretty nasty, unethical black hat, but, uh, I'm sure you see all of them, but it's really interesting that you took that concept and said, okay, what's the white hat version of this look like? And you basically, you know, I haven't heard a lot of friends actually using any of these strategies. So this one, this one looks like a pretty good opportunity.

[00:26:43] John Wright: Yeah, for sure.

[00:26:44] John Wright: It's free. You can get it and you can also get, um, really high DR things. Like we've got links from entrepreneur, fast company, and few more, even health line or one link came from his line as well. So it's great way to diversify. And I will say the prospects only increase each month. So you're getting free. You're increasing your optional getting three links month after month.

[00:27:10] Jabez Reuben: So these are great. All right. We got a couple more. Um, so what is skyscraper and expert Roundup? I mean, the expert Roundup, I think I know pretty well, but, um, I want to hear your, your take.

[00:27:22] John Wright: So, uh, I'll spin on skyscraper and export Roundup is that you combine those two together, right? So I'd say most people know how it's done. You create a final topic that's, uh, it's getting a lot of backlinks and then you create your own updated version of that. And while you're working on that skyscraper article, um, reach out to export in your niche and in advance and tell them that, Hey, I'm working on this article and I would like to get your export comments on this.

[00:27:56] Jabez Reuben: And, uh, the only, the other criteria for getting featured on this article is that if you will give you a link, but you will also need to give us a link in return, just to just rephrase this in a more polite way. So reach out to, you know, 50 exports in your niche that you can, um, you can, you know, reach out to that are related to your niche. And you just need to agree with like seven or eight of them because you don't want to dilute your page with too many outbound links, so just needs eight or even 10 max confirmations. So eight export, eight to 10 exports agree to give you a link in return.

[00:28:34] Jabez Reuben: You just, even before you have launched your skyscraper article, you know that you will be getting 10 very highly relevant things from these export sites. And you give them a link in return. Again, this is a way to diversify your backlink profile and especially because these links will be coming from exports in your niche, it adds just more value to your overall backlink profile.

[00:28:59] John Wright: I mean, that's a thing combining skyscraper with, with export round up together instead of running them separately. Yeah. That gave me a few ideas. I mean, about what we do as a SaaS company, I mean, we've done interviews where we haven't asked for anything in return, but we're doing these things with people that are potentially our customers, so it has won us over a bit, but I'm wondering because we have a podcast and we want to get a ranking better, it's like, what's the easiest thing to ask that, you know, some of the people we talk to links are kind of like guarded. They're like, no, I don't want to give this out because you're gaining way more value. I'm just thinking that, you know, there's alternatives here. I could say instead of asking for a link in return, it's like, what I

[00:29:39] John Wright: want to return is a rating on Apple and Spotify.

[00:29:45] Jabez Reuben: For sure. I mean, it people, people like to, you know, a recipe, broke it, something that you've done for them and giving a rating on Apple or Spotify. Anyway, it's, it's so easy. And even if 80% of will say no to your request, you still get 20% of people agreeing to your request and that's still really helpful. Yeah. What would you say as well? Like, like, if you're going to take these expert roundups, would you say this is also worthy to publish on places like LinkedIn pulse, for

[00:30:21] Jabez Reuben: example, or would you like, would you say that's beneficial or like maybe good as a one off or?

[00:30:29] John Wright: Of course you can republish them or you can even rephrase them. You know, for example, in the next four found up, you publish your own article with the skyscraper and export on up. Now you can create, you know, either newsletters, LinkedIn pulse, or even short bits, this is what we interviewed 10 SEO experts. And this is what they had to say about the current stage of link building. Or we, we interviewed X amount of SEOs or SaaS experts. And this is the number one link building strategy in 2024.

[00:31:05] John Wright: So you, we can always know repurpose that, that bit of content in different formats, either into real shots or link pulse or LinkedIn posts or any other medium.

[00:31:18] Jabez Reuben: Now I have a LinkedIn newsletter and I've actually started capturing the audience off of LinkedIn because you never know when LinkedIn is going to delete your account. So I'm using beehive as the newsletter, but I have all this content on LinkedIn. And I'm like, where, where should I publish this? I published it on beehive. I'm technically publishing on another entity, but we already have a pretty decent, a high DA website, like our SaaS company. Should I copy that as well from LinkedIn or should I modify it? What would you, what would you say?

[00:31:53] John Wright: I would definitely, if I had to do it, I would at least modify and add more value because I'm worried about, you know, content duplication. Yeah. And so, that's something we are always careful of. So if I have to repurpose the same content, I will use it, but definitely reformat it, re-refreeze it and publish it with a different angle or more information so it doesn't look the same as my LinkedIn post. Right. I think it means that I need an editor. I don't need another writer.

[00:32:29] John Wright: I've got enough content going on, but it's like all these ideas are basically it's editing, it's the little details.

[00:32:36] Jabez Reuben: Right.

[00:32:37] Jabez Reuben: And let's talk about affiliate outreach. What would your tips be on for that?

[00:32:45] John Wright: Yeah. Affiliate outreach for those affiliate SEOs who are still going strong with the affiliate sites. So here's what you can do is first of all, see all the products that you are, you are promoting on your site, then reach out to the original makers of those products. Not Amazon, but the original product companies.

[00:33:14] John Wright: And reach out to them and say, Hey, I'm promoting your product and I would like to drive even more traffic to your site. Can you help in my efforts of driving more traffic to your site by giving us a link from one of your pages?

[00:33:30] John Wright: Now, two things happen here. One is you will get a backlink if everything goes well, you'll get a backlink from, uh, from the original company, which will be of high relevance and quality for you. Second thing is there are chances they will offer you their own personal affiliate program, especially when you are, let's say a lot of time you are promoting Amazon's, um, affiliate program. These, um, private companies will offer you their own, which will be better commissions.

[00:34:06] John Wright: In most cases, they are better commissions. And sometimes they'll say, Hey, can you put me on your, I'm right now on number five spot on your article. Can you put me on number one? You can never should I've even seen cases where, um, because we were running this for a fight, we don't do it anymore. But when we were running this for one of the client, this outreach of this particular company was even willing to pay, uh, I think $2,000 to be on the number one spot and they were fine with that. So it just opens up more, uh, you know, opportunities for you when you start reaching out to all the original makers of your, uh, of your partner.

[00:34:47] Jabez Reuben: So yeah, that, that, that's the benefit of running off lead outreach. I'm definitely going to share that with a few people that are looking to build, uh, one of their, their, um, audience, but they don't in particular have an affiliate program, but they have an indirect relationship with affiliates. So that's a note for myself. Uh, linkable assets. And before I ask you about that, you know, the, the obvious of what it looks like for, you know, any webmaster and affiliate want to talk about, I'll first talk about the B2B space where I've heard a lot of B2B people say that when you create linkable assets, the whole idea is that you're putting them through a lead gen form, you're capturing their audio, uh, their data.

[00:35:27] Jabez Reuben: And I've heard that sometimes you're capturing a lot of junk data. You're not always really nailing your ICP. Maybe that's a content issue. Um, but putting that aside or maybe taking a consideration, what would you still say are best practices for likable assets, the do's and don'ts?

[00:35:45] John Wright: All right.

[00:35:46] John Wright: I'm talking in terms of linkable assets for link building purpose, right? So, well, how we approach this is.

[00:35:54] John Wright: Building two kinds of linkable assets. One is for the point of view of getting natural backlinks and more of, you know, um, getting high quality journalist citations. So when you're building those kinds of linkable assets, you have to think from that point of view of, okay, what kind of articles or topics journalists cover year after year, or, or maybe trending topics or stats or those kinds of, um, it's a different set of, uh, article structure. So, but you think of, um, Generalist citations, those kinds of, you

[00:36:32] John Wright: should have that in mind when you're building link, linkable assets.

[00:36:36] Jabez Reuben: The second is, uh, let's say you, you're in the health space and when you're doing guestforce outreach or LinkedIn session outreach, you would usually reach, reach out to, um, other health based sites or other sites that are covering health topics. So your, your circle of prospects is limited. Now you, if you want to diversify your prospect network, we, you, you create a linkable asset or we call it a, you publish an article that talks, uh, about something else as well. So you're in the health space. Let's write an article about best apps in the health space or best

[00:37:15] Jabez Reuben: sass about health trackers or built. So now you are able to reach out to tech sites or SaaS sites, app sites. So, um, that's another way to build linkable assets to you, to diversify or to increase your pool of getting backlinks or your increase your pool of prospects from where you can get backlinks similar to, you know, or your skyscraper as well, but you just have to have a different mindset when you're building these to these kinds of linkable assets. One is, you know, you're keeping journalists in mind.

[00:37:50] Jabez Reuben: The other one is that you are keeping sites from different niches in mind. And you build a bridge and you can get links from different niches as well.

[00:38:00] John Wright: And what would you say are good opportunities for link partnerships and the best practices?

[00:38:09] Jabez Reuben: Right. So link partnerships is actually very helpful, especially in the SaaS based B2B space, you know, um, and in our, uh, experience, this also has worked only in the SaaS and B2B space. So how this works is first of all, you, uh, you know, network on LinkedIn. We're different outreach managers, different, uh, you know, SaaS owners who are running everything on their own, just all, or let's say, and any good, uh, you know, SaaS that has a good outreach department, you reach out to the outreach managers and, you know, build reputation, build connection and say, okay, I'm going to be publishing

[00:38:49] Jabez Reuben: these X amount of guest posts.

[00:38:51] Jabez Reuben: I publish 10 guest posts every month on different websites, and I will try my best to give up, get a link for you. You know, and in return, if you can also send me links from wherever you're doing guest posts. So it's building a credit system. The partner partner with 10, 15, 20, as many partners you can get, just make sure they are also actively building backlinks. They are also building quality backlinks so they can return the stable. So you maintain a record. Okay. Or so whenever you are doing guest posts or building backlinks, get links or your partners along with your own site.

[00:39:29] Jabez Reuben: And then, um, you know, keep following up to them, tell them, okay, this month I got two links for you, five links for you, three links for you. And so, and most likely you will get links from your partners.

[00:39:42] John Wright: Okay. That makes sense. I've done, done, I've made, I have done that a few times where I've said, okay, this article, I'm going to talk about my friend's SaaS company because it's totally relevant, but I always let them know that I've done that. Cause I'm like, Hey, I've, I've just done your favor. I'm not asking for a favor, but I know that they, they're very mindful of it. And I think just to kind of like, you know, take a credit and say, Hey, I did that one off. Do you think I could get a blog post from your SaaS blog? Um, I think it's good to at least document it and say, Hey, you know, here's the, the credits we've built up for even to be very blunt and upfront saying, Hey, if I do this, would you do this in return?

[00:40:21] John Wright: We're just, you know, we're looking to help each other. And I don't know anyone that would say no to that.

[00:40:28] Jabez Reuben: Absolutely. And there's one way of, you know, just helping your friends and, you know, um, and they will help you back as a field, but to be more organized, but because you're putting in efforts, you know, you're putting you, um, maybe you set up one, a whole department or one person just doing partnership link buildings, you know, so it's better to document everything. Have it very clear from the start that, okay, this is what the deal is. We build links for you, you build links for us. So, uh, and if you have it documented, if you have it, everything plan, so they can see the she, they can see how many links, uh, you have sent them and they owe you the X amount of links in return.

[00:41:07] Jabez Reuben: So that way, yeah, everything is organized and you know, okay, if X amount of links are supposed to come from this, this partner, that partner, and then you are getting rewarded properly for your efforts as well. So definitely document everything and have, have it clear with, with all your partners and business, how it's going to work.

[00:41:29] John Wright: And then, uh, last question, which is, uh, usually a tough one is what do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business intelligence?

[00:41:39] Jabez Reuben: I would say, uh, business intelligence, not just with, uh, afraid marketing, but in general, um, if you're not tracking your data, you're losing out like your money, you're losing out your time, you can be promoting an affiliate product that's not giving you the returns, um, compared to the amount of time and effort you put in. Whereas, uh, if you know, there can be, um, pro affiliate programs or products where that are giving you returns with minimal effort, they gotta be doubling down on those kinds of products and those affiliate programs. But to know that, uh, which, which products are performing well, which

[00:42:19] Jabez Reuben: are not performing well, you need to have everything documented. You need to have data. You need to have everything clear in front of you. So you can put in your efforts where you can have maximum output. So in my opinion, uh, that's why you need, uh, you know, tools and, um, uh, intelligence softwares where you can track everything and put in all your efforts in the right way.

[00:42:45] Jabez Reuben: Otherwise you'll end up losing money and time.

[00:42:49] John Wright: Uh, it should make you the, the spokesperson for our SAS company, which does that. I mean, uh, we're just getting to know each other and I don't, I'm not even sure if you know that that's exactly what we do. So it's funny that I asked that question and then the perfect answer, I was like,

[00:43:04] John Wright: it's like, we're just going to put your face and your quote on, on our website. But we won't do that. Cause you'll, you'll ask for a link, but we'll give you a link anyways. Um, this is, this is really insightful. It's, uh, it's a lot of little details, but it's kind of like the fine details and all aspects of link building, you know, being on any side of the fence, so, uh, it's really a nice chatting with you.

[00:43:27] Jabez Reuben: I was a great chat. I really enjoyed chatting with you. So before we let you go, uh, this is your link opportunity. How can people get ahold of you on whatever your favorite channels are? And of course, we'll definitely give out at least one link and more than happy to mention, uh, your main projects.

[00:43:44] John Wright: So yeah, people can connect with me on LinkedIn. First book job is that's what both micro file names are. So both places I'm very active and products. You can check out link, I did that IO our agency, the blueprints.co. And you can message us through our sites as well, because we have a chat chat out there and you can chat with us through our sites directly as well.

[00:44:10] John Wright: Awesome. Thanks a lot for doing this.

[00:44:12] Jabez Reuben: Thanks John. Was pleasure being on one.

[00:44:17] John Wright: Thank you for tuning in to the affiliate BI podcast. I'd like to take this time to ask for small favor to leave a rating and reading wherever you listen to your podcast. That helps us expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more listeners.