The Future of iGaming with Alex Pratt from Clarion Events

whether it's affiliate marketing aidance whether it's affiliate marketing aidance running media running the shop down the

running media running the shop down the running media running the shop down the road data is critical another one of our

road data is critical another one of our road data is critical another one of our kind of Po cor values is is data so we

kind of Po cor values is is data so we kind of Po cor values is is data so we can Now understand or starting to

can Now understand or starting to can Now understand or starting to understand a understand a understand a customer 365 days of the year what what

customer 365 days of the year what what customer 365 days of the year what what they're reading emails they're opening

they're reading emails they're opening they're reading emails they're opening what they do on site what meetings what they do on site what meetings what they do on site what meetings they're requesting what meetings didn't they're requesting what meetings didn't they're requesting what meetings didn't turn up what they said they wanted to do

turn up what they said they wanted to do turn up what they said they wanted to do at the show to what they did the side

at the show to what they did the side at the show to what they did the side and that data opens up a an amazing

and that data opens up a an amazing and that data opens up a an amazing opportunity to improve experience

opportunity to improve experience opportunity to improve experience improve our products but also tons of

improve our products but also tons of improve our products but also tons of new products loads of new ways that we

new products loads of new ways that we new products loads of new ways that we can monetize and I think it's the same

can monetize and I think it's the same can monetize and I think it's the same for the affiliate sector the more that

for the affiliate sector the more that for the affiliate sector the more that we can understand what is happening on

we can understand what is happening on we can understand what is happening on our sites whether it's tracking

our sites whether it's tracking our sites whether it's tracking conversion data um retention it it can

conversion data um retention it it can conversion data um retention it it can only help improve performance it can

only help improve performance it can only help improve performance it can only help us as a business justify our

only help us as a business justify our only help us as a business justify our role within the sector I think often

role within the sector I think often role within the sector I think often less than now but often filia had a bit

less than now but often filia had a bit less than now but often filia had a bit of a bad rra that it wasn't delivering

of a bad rra that it wasn't delivering of a bad rra that it wasn't delivering high quality or Roi that actually is we

high quality or Roi that actually is we high quality or Roi that actually is we start to move into this new business

start to move into this new business start to move into this new business intelligence world we actually can stand

intelligence world we actually can stand intelligence world we actually can stand here and say look this is the ROI we

here and say look this is the ROI we here and say look this is the ROI we deliver I'm John Wright and you're

deliver I'm John Wright and you're deliver I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business

listening to affiliate bi the business listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by sta welcome to the affiliate bi podcast

sta welcome to the affiliate bi podcast sta welcome to the affiliate bi podcast today we're chatting with Alex Pratt who

today we're chatting with Alex Pratt who today we're chatting with Alex Pratt who is the managing director for clearing

is the managing director for clearing is the managing director for clearing events and I've known Alex for a long

events and I've known Alex for a long events and I've known Alex for a long time seeing him at events like affiliate

time seeing him at events like affiliate time seeing him at events like affiliate Summit and igb affiliate and going to be

Summit and igb affiliate and going to be Summit and igb affiliate and going to be seeing him soon in Barcelona Alex

seeing him soon in Barcelona Alex seeing him soon in Barcelona Alex welcome to the show thanks John and

welcome to the show thanks John and welcome to the show thanks John and actually I was just thinking before that

actually I was just thinking before that actually I was just thinking before that cap

cap cap euroo and even before that the Cino

euroo and even before that the Cino euroo and even before that the Cino affiliate conference yeah those those

affiliate conference yeah those those affiliate conference yeah those those were uh pretty good uh starting events

were uh pretty good uh starting events were uh pretty good uh starting events and yeah The Branding I thought was uh

and yeah The Branding I thought was uh and yeah The Branding I thought was uh you know smart change to kind of go okay

you know smart change to kind of go okay you know smart change to kind of go okay let's let's take the word Casino out of

let's let's take the word Casino out of let's let's take the word Casino out of it and just call it gaming and you made

it and just call it gaming and you made it and just call it gaming and you made life easier for people people like us life easier for people people like us life easier for people people like us when we travel where you know it's like

when we travel where you know it's like when we travel where you know it's like where are you going oh it's an affiliate where are you going oh it's an affiliate where are you going oh it's an affiliate conference what's the name of the conference what's the name of the conference what's the name of the conference igb affiliate okay no

conference igb affiliate okay no conference igb affiliate okay no questions asked everything's okay you

questions asked everything's okay you questions asked everything's okay you say casino on the right I need to check

say casino on the right I need to check say casino on the right I need to check your bags for money so I want to ask you

your bags for money so I want to ask you your bags for money so I want to ask you what do you see changing in the

what do you see changing in the what do you see changing in the affiliate space like what is happening I

affiliate space like what is happening I affiliate space like what is happening I ask you because I think you've got the

ask you because I think you've got the ask you because I think you've got the perfect view of the entire industry um

perfect view of the entire industry um perfect view of the entire industry um what affiliate segments getting better

what affiliate segments getting better what affiliate segments getting better what's shrinking are there less

what's shrinking are there less what's shrinking are there less Affiliates but is the business getting

Affiliates but is the business getting Affiliates but is the business getting bigger what are you what are you seeing

bigger what are you what are you seeing bigger what are you what are you seeing yeah that's a big question I think it's

yeah that's a big question I think it's yeah that's a big question I think it's definitely getting bigger at least from

definitely getting bigger at least from definitely getting bigger at least from from my perspective the events aren't

from my perspective the events aren't from my perspective the events aren't getting smaller and that attende base is

getting smaller and that attende base is getting smaller and that attende base is continuing to grow I think it for me

continuing to grow I think it for me continuing to grow I think it for me that's really interesting because back

that's really interesting because back that's really interesting because back when actually back in sort of cat buau

when actually back in sort of cat buau when actually back in sort of cat buau days and and originally when igb affili

days and and originally when igb affili days and and originally when igb affili started to come out we started to see

started to come out we started to see started to come out we started to see regulation and permission to Market on

regulation and permission to Market on regulation and permission to Market on things like Facebook and Google and all

things like Facebook and Google and all things like Facebook and Google and all the various places you could Sly open up

the various places you could Sly open up the various places you could Sly open up the market particularly for operators I

the market particularly for operators I the market particularly for operators I stupidly or at the time intelligently

stupidly or at the time intelligently stupidly or at the time intelligently forecasted affiliate will be no more the

forecasted affiliate will be no more the forecasted affiliate will be no more the these events with dios and and from that

these events with dios and and from that these events with dios and and from that very moment on it's it's just got bigger

very moment on it's it's just got bigger very moment on it's it's just got bigger and bigger and bigger and I guess for me

and bigger and bigger and I guess for me and bigger and bigger and I guess for me the the the role of affilia is more than

the the the role of affilia is more than the the the role of affilia is more than just a way to acquire players beyond the

just a way to acquire players beyond the just a way to acquire players beyond the traditional means of of player

traditional means of of player traditional means of of player acquisition it also adds brand adds

acquisition it also adds brand adds acquisition it also adds brand adds recognition I think as humans we we we

recognition I think as humans we we we recognition I think as humans we we we don't want to just go straight to the

don't want to just go straight to the don't want to just go straight to the person advertises the most on TV we want

person advertises the most on TV we want person advertises the most on TV we want to know what people think we want to

to know what people think we want to to know what people think we want to look at data we want recom ation all all

look at data we want recom ation all all look at data we want recom ation all all those different things so I think you

those different things so I think you those different things so I think you still got the the kind of continued

still got the the kind of continued still got the the kind of continued whether it's Community or content based

whether it's Community or content based whether it's Community or content based Affiliates I think we're seeing a lot

Affiliates I think we're seeing a lot Affiliates I think we're seeing a lot more interesting stuff around using

more interesting stuff around using more interesting stuff around using technology and tools to to provide a

technology and tools to to provide a technology and tools to to provide a service almost but then monetize off the

service almost but then monetize off the service almost but then monetize off the back of it I think something interesting

back of it I think something interesting back of it I think something interesting I've seen not so much in gaming but more

I've seen not so much in gaming but more I've seen not so much in gaming but more in the retail space is around brand to

in the retail space is around brand to in the retail space is around brand to Brand which I think really moves

Brand which I think really moves Brand which I think really moves affiliate more towards this kind of affiliate more towards this kind of affiliate more towards this kind of partnership marketing I think there was

partnership marketing I think there was partnership marketing I think there was one last year where Spotify did a deal

one last year where Spotify did a deal one last year where Spotify did a deal with ticket Master where if you're

with ticket Master where if you're with ticket Master where if you're listening to I don't know making up Guns

listening to I don't know making up Guns listening to I don't know making up Guns and Roses actually well Guns and Roses

and Roses actually well Guns and Roses and Roses actually well Guns and Roses are playing at this venue here want to

are playing at this venue here want to are playing at this venue here want to buy a ticket and actually you both got

buy a ticket and actually you both got buy a ticket and actually you both got the same database you both got the same

the same database you both got the same the same database you both got the same interest in that data so why not interest in that data so why not interest in that data so why not monetize it together so I think they

monetize it together so I think they monetize it together so I think they really interesting stuff around that

really interesting stuff around that really interesting stuff around that brand to Brand area obviously streaming

brand to Brand area obviously streaming brand to Brand area obviously streaming has has got a lot bigger particularly in

has has got a lot bigger particularly in has has got a lot bigger particularly in gaming I think again I think that

gaming I think again I think that gaming I think again I think that influence area some people class it is

influence area some people class it is influence area some people class it is affiliate some people don't I I I do

affiliate some people don't I I I do affiliate some people don't I I I do because I think it's a performance-based

because I think it's a performance-based because I think it's a performance-based eate based influencer based marketing

eate based influencer based marketing eate based influencer based marketing but I think what's interesting on that but I think what's interesting on that but I think what's interesting on that area is the trend towards more genuine

area is the trend towards more genuine area is the trend towards more genuine and transparent individuals it's I think

and transparent individuals it's I think and transparent individuals it's I think you get from from streaming as well

you get from from streaming as well you get from from streaming as well people don't people want to believe that

people don't people want to believe that people don't people want to believe that you use that cream or you play on that

you use that cream or you play on that you use that cream or you play on that poker site I think other interesting

poker site I think other interesting poker site I think other interesting areas I've SE I really liked the uh

areas I've SE I really liked the uh areas I've SE I really liked the uh people that are doing streaming in

people that are doing streaming in people that are doing streaming in premise I've seen a few bits of that

premise I've seen a few bits of that premise I've seen a few bits of that where they're they're kind of an event

where they're they're kind of an event where they're they're kind of an event for it and actually that adds a lot of

for it and actually that adds a lot of for it and actually that adds a lot of value to a landbased casino Beyond just

value to a landbased casino Beyond just value to a landbased casino Beyond just players it's it's all about branding

players it's it's all about branding players it's it's all about branding it's actually creating an entertainment it's actually creating an entertainment it's actually creating an entertainment event within the premise itself which I

event within the premise itself which I event within the premise itself which I think is really important we are after

think is really important we are after think is really important we are after all in the in the entertainment industry

all in the in the entertainment industry all in the in the entertainment industry so now I'm not not seeing it shrink at

so now I'm not not seeing it shrink at so now I'm not not seeing it shrink at all I think ever since I got in this

all I think ever since I got in this all I think ever since I got in this sector people have told me there's no

sector people have told me there's no sector people have told me there's no more space there's no way you can grow

more space there's no way you can grow more space there's no way you can grow there's nothing to launch it's done

there's nothing to launch it's done there's nothing to launch it's done whether it's the UK or an emerging

whether it's the UK or an emerging whether it's the UK or an emerging market every year I'm surprised by a new

market every year I'm surprised by a new market every year I'm surprised by a new affiliate that really breaks ground and

affiliate that really breaks ground and affiliate that really breaks ground and I think back in years ago is when you

I think back in years ago is when you I think back in years ago is when you started to see the Affiliates that were

started to see the Affiliates that were started to see the Affiliates that were using things like Twitter didn't even using things like Twitter didn't even using things like Twitter didn't even have a website these guys were like 18

have a website these guys were like 18 have a website these guys were like 18 years old they probably in their late

years old they probably in their late years old they probably in their late 20s now but making huge amounts of money

20s now but making huge amounts of money 20s now but making huge amounts of money not directing anyone to a website

not directing anyone to a website not directing anyone to a website because they store and store media in a

because they store and store media in a because they store and store media in a different way and I think we continue to

different way and I think we continue to different way and I think we continue to see to see people leveraging new

see to see people leveraging new see to see people leveraging new channels new platforms new ways to to

channels new platforms new ways to to channels new platforms new ways to to work with a work with players I mean go

work with a work with players I mean go work with a work with players I mean go back God knows how many years people I

back God knows how many years people I back God knows how many years people I remember meeting yest was handing CDs

remember meeting yest was handing CDs remember meeting yest was handing CDs outside his fite football job every week

outside his fite football job every week outside his fite football job every week and that P to receiving ticket and gave

and that P to receiving ticket and gave and that P to receiving ticket and gave him some money so it will always change

him some money so it will always change him some money so it will always change and I think that comes with technology

and I think that comes with technology and I think that comes with technology it comes with youth comes with

it comes with youth comes with it comes with youth comes with thinkinking slightly outside the box

thinkinking slightly outside the box thinkinking slightly outside the box longwinded answer but yeah getting

longwinded answer but yeah getting longwinded answer but yeah getting bigger oh that that was brilliant I I

bigger oh that that was brilliant I I bigger oh that that was brilliant I I want to touch upon that a bit further

want to touch upon that a bit further want to touch upon that a bit further because you mentioned influencers being

because you mentioned influencers being because you mentioned influencers being a growing segment now do you think

a growing segment now do you think a growing segment now do you think influencers kind of mess up the space a

influencers kind of mess up the space a influencers kind of mess up the space a little bit from an m&a point of view I

little bit from an m&a point of view I little bit from an m&a point of view I mean let's pretend this Alex Pratt is

mean let's pretend this Alex Pratt is mean let's pretend this Alex Pratt is going to become a streamer so you're

going to become a streamer so you're going to become a streamer so you're building your brand that's more of a

building your brand that's more of a building your brand that's more of a personal brand you can still associate

personal brand you can still associate personal brand you can still associate it with like a website but it's going to

it with like a website but it's going to it with like a website but it's going to be very difficult to say hey I want to be very difficult to say hey I want to be very difficult to say hey I want to acquire Alex Prat it's not say it's

acquire Alex Prat it's not say it's acquire Alex Prat it's not say it's impossible but you kind of make it a

impossible but you kind of make it a impossible but you kind of make it a little different when you're saying hey

little different when you're saying hey little different when you're saying hey I'm a person and if people are buying

I'm a person and if people are buying I'm a person and if people are buying from people and this is kind of like a

from people and this is kind of like a from people and this is kind of like a changing space is this going to cause

changing space is this going to cause changing space is this going to cause problems for companies like better where

problems for companies like better where problems for companies like better where they they actually want to get more into they they actually want to get more into they they actually want to get more into this influencer space and it's like you

this influencer space and it's like you this influencer space and it's like you either have to have these big contracts

either have to have these big contracts either have to have these big contracts and say okay you're stuck with us for and say okay you're stuck with us for and say okay you're stuck with us for one or two years but you're not quite

one or two years but you're not quite one or two years but you're not quite getting Revenue share and like what do

getting Revenue share and like what do getting Revenue share and like what do you think yeah no I think that buying

you think yeah no I think that buying you think yeah no I think that buying that individual

that individual that individual property as a with a buying hat on would

property as a with a buying hat on would property as a with a buying hat on would be usually risky and you'd have to price

be usually risky and you'd have to price be usually risky and you'd have to price that in I think I'd be almost taking a A

that in I think I'd be almost taking a A that in I think I'd be almost taking a A step above that and actually look at is

step above that and actually look at is step above that and actually look at is there or if I wasn't in inside building

there or if I wasn't in inside building there or if I wasn't in inside building a network um of of of many individuals

a network um of of of many individuals a network um of of of many individuals so you've got you can drisk it slightly

so you've got you can drisk it slightly so you've got you can drisk it slightly so things like where you look at rather

so things like where you look at rather so things like where you look at rather than buying a single podcast you're than buying a single podcast you're than buying a single podcast you're buying a network of podcasts but also

buying a network of podcasts but also buying a network of podcasts but also that gives you more leverage around

that gives you more leverage around that gives you more leverage around monetization and and when you're having

monetization and and when you're having monetization and and when you're having those conversations but I think I think

those conversations but I think I think those conversations but I think I think m&a is interesting in the affiliate

m&a is interesting in the affiliate m&a is interesting in the affiliate segment I think where you've got a brand

segment I think where you've got a brand segment I think where you've got a brand and a established scaled media business

and a established scaled media business and a established scaled media business it's it's easy to price it's easy to I

it's it's easy to price it's easy to I it's it's easy to price it's easy to I mean easy in inverted comms easy to to

mean easy in inverted comms easy to to mean easy in inverted comms easy to to buy and then relatively easy to

buy and then relatively easy to buy and then relatively easy to integrate what I found certainly I've

integrate what I found certainly I've integrate what I found certainly I've seen a lot of mistakes being made by

seen a lot of mistakes being made by seen a lot of mistakes being made by some of the some of the acquirers maybe

some of the some of the acquirers maybe some of the some of the acquirers maybe a few years ago is where they're buying

a few years ago is where they're buying a few years ago is where they're buying these founding their businesses and

these founding their businesses and these founding their businesses and actually I think they took for granted

actually I think they took for granted actually I think they took for granted the amount of passion and effort that

the amount of passion and effort that the amount of passion and effort that went in beyond the technology and the

went in beyond the technology and the went in beyond the technology and the users and actually trying to replicate

users and actually trying to replicate users and actually trying to replicate that in a corporate environment and then

that in a corporate environment and then that in a corporate environment and then actually scale it is really difficult

actually scale it is really difficult actually scale it is really difficult and I think some some brands have done

and I think some some brands have done and I think some some brands have done that well some some are fall I think I

that well some some are fall I think I that well some some are fall I think I think m&a is is difficult unless it's

think m&a is is difficult unless it's think m&a is is difficult unless it's really a really traditional media band

really a really traditional media band really a really traditional media band or or a piece of technology yeah I I

or or a piece of technology yeah I I or or a piece of technology yeah I I have a theory that I think the best way

have a theory that I think the best way have a theory that I think the best way to try to get equity in an influencer is

to try to get equity in an influencer is to try to get equity in an influencer is through an affiliate Network because you

through an affiliate Network because you through an affiliate Network because you imagine your traditional affiliate imagine your traditional affiliate imagine your traditional affiliate Network it's kind of like you're getting

Network it's kind of like you're getting Network it's kind of like you're getting 20% cut of the business so if you kind

20% cut of the business so if you kind 20% cut of the business so if you kind of have this partnership it's almost

of have this partnership it's almost of have this partnership it's almost like I wouldn't call it what you said

like I wouldn't call it what you said like I wouldn't call it what you said earlier but brand to brand but it's the earlier but brand to brand but it's the earlier but brand to brand but it's the closest thing I think it's the next best

closest thing I think it's the next best closest thing I think it's the next best Gateway of saying if I can't quite buy

Gateway of saying if I can't quite buy Gateway of saying if I can't quite buy people as influencers maybe I can own

people as influencers maybe I can own people as influencers maybe I can own 20% of their business and say look we'll

20% of their business and say look we'll 20% of their business and say look we'll take care of the tech stack we'll do all

take care of the tech stack we'll do all take care of the tech stack we'll do all the the stuff you don't want to do which

the the stuff you don't want to do which the the stuff you don't want to do which is manage uh payments tracking links all

is manage uh payments tracking links all is manage uh payments tracking links all that stuff and it's like you do what you that stuff and it's like you do what you that stuff and it's like you do what you do best which is you know entertain

do best which is you know entertain do best which is you know entertain people and you know create create an

people and you know create create an people and you know create create an audience exactly and then and then you

audience exactly and then and then you audience exactly and then and then you then goes back to you can actually build

then goes back to you can actually build then goes back to you can actually build a network of of those influence and

a network of of those influence and a network of of those influence and actually when you go to Brand X and

actually when you go to Brand X and actually when you go to Brand X and torture the the reach that you have

torture the the reach that you have torture the the reach that you have you're a you're able to provide a much

you're a you're able to provide a much you're a you're able to provide a much bigger service and ideally get a lot

bigger service and ideally get a lot bigger service and ideally get a lot more money and as well as reduce your

more money and as well as reduce your more money and as well as reduce your cost as you're at scale yeah and there's

cost as you're at scale yeah and there's cost as you're at scale yeah and there's actually one of those networks I know actually one of those networks I know actually one of those networks I know called I think it's stream.io so they

called I think it's stream.io so they called I think it's stream.io so they actually Target specifically you know

actually Target specifically you know actually Target specifically you know kind of like more streamers I mean it's

kind of like more streamers I mean it's kind of like more streamers I mean it's get into the name amazing yeah amazing

get into the name amazing yeah amazing get into the name amazing yeah amazing so yeah we've already talked about so yeah we've already talked about so yeah we've already talked about affiliate networks do you see affiliate

affiliate networks do you see affiliate affiliate networks do you see affiliate networks getting even bigger I mean the

networks getting even bigger I mean the networks getting even bigger I mean the the the one that I think grabs a lot of

the the one that I think grabs a lot of the the one that I think grabs a lot of attention in our space rate Tech they're

attention in our space rate Tech they're attention in our space rate Tech they're public I think last year they generated

public I think last year they generated public I think last year they generated 32 million EUR in Revenue I think it's

32 million EUR in Revenue I think it's 32 million EUR in Revenue I think it's the the key component that's like really

the the key component that's like really the the key component that's like really driving their business and we've seen

driving their business and we've seen driving their business and we've seen Kenna media say they're going to launch

Kenna media say they're going to launch Kenna media say they're going to launch Marketplace I think it was days ago you

Marketplace I think it was days ago you Marketplace I think it was days ago you guys just published uh a big article

guys just published uh a big article guys just published uh a big article with game Lounge where they're launching

with game Lounge where they're launching with game Lounge where they're launching kicker seems like everyone wants in like

kicker seems like everyone wants in like kicker seems like everyone wants in like are you seeing this as the next

are you seeing this as the next are you seeing this as the next interesting product that's also B2B yeah

interesting product that's also B2B yeah interesting product that's also B2B yeah look I'm I'm going wait and see because

look I'm I'm going wait and see because look I'm I'm going wait and see because if you if you sp SP him to me last year

if you if you sp SP him to me last year if you if you sp SP him to me last year and even probably a few months ago I'd

and even probably a few months ago I'd and even probably a few months ago I'd say and having having run affiliate

say and having having run affiliate say and having having run affiliate Summit for a few years as well so see Summit for a few years as well so see Summit for a few years as well so see the retail space where it's totally

the retail space where it's totally the retail space where it's totally dominated by the networks and I've

dominated by the networks and I've dominated by the networks and I've always seen in gaming I was like that's

always seen in gaming I was like that's always seen in gaming I was like that's just it's never going to happen partly

just it's never going to happen partly just it's never going to happen partly because the the kind of unit units with

because the the kind of unit units with because the the kind of unit units with the cost of acquisition the amount with

the cost of acquisition the amount with the cost of acquisition the amount with spending versus whether they are slowest

spending versus whether they are slowest spending versus whether they are slowest or a small retailer is just a lot higher

or a small retailer is just a lot higher or a small retailer is just a lot higher so those relationships are really so those relationships are really so those relationships are really important I think it's a really important I think it's a really important I think it's a really relationship based business so those

relationship based business so those relationship based business so those bigger Affiliates want to deal with

bigger Affiliates want to deal with bigger Affiliates want to deal with those casinos directly um for those

those casinos directly um for those those casinos directly um for those small to Media affiliat a network offers

small to Media affiliat a network offers small to Media affiliat a network offers massive advantages for those non-gaming

massive advantages for those non-gaming massive advantages for those non-gaming Affiliates that actually just have a

Affiliates that actually just have a Affiliates that actually just have a segment of Their audience they want to

segment of Their audience they want to segment of Their audience they want to offer softer gaming I think it has a has

offer softer gaming I think it has a has offer softer gaming I think it has a has a role but look we're seeing this trend

a role but look we're seeing this trend a role but look we're seeing this trend if I was going to bet I'd say it won't

if I was going to bet I'd say it won't if I was going to bet I'd say it won't win out I think it will probably appeal

win out I think it will probably appeal win out I think it will probably appeal to the small to medium guys that I just

to the small to medium guys that I just to the small to medium guys that I just just doesn't feel like a a sector that's

just doesn't feel like a a sector that's just doesn't feel like a a sector that's that wants to be Consolidated into

that wants to be Consolidated into that wants to be Consolidated into networks and I'm not sure the the brands

networks and I'm not sure the the brands networks and I'm not sure the the brands themselves are so aggressive so themselves are so aggressive so themselves are so aggressive so Innovative that I'm not sure they would

Innovative that I'm not sure they would Innovative that I'm not sure they would want to lose that control either and

want to lose that control either and want to lose that control either and it's because it's so I keep going on but

it's because it's so I keep going on but it's because it's so I keep going on but when we talked to some of those even

when we talked to some of those even when we talked to some of those even tier one operators that that traffic

tier one operators that that traffic tier one operators that that traffic generated by Affiliates not only is it

generated by Affiliates not only is it generated by Affiliates not only is it is it high but it's high quality and it

is it high but it's high quality and it is it high but it's high quality and it and it makes or breaks some of them and

and it makes or breaks some of them and and it makes or breaks some of them and so they can't afford to risk losing th

so they can't afford to risk losing th so they can't afford to risk losing th those those relationships so I think

those those relationships so I think those those relationships so I think there's I think it has advantages I'm

there's I think it has advantages I'm there's I think it has advantages I'm not sure it will become the dominant not sure it will become the dominant not sure it will become the dominant Force than it I could be totally wrong

Force than it I could be totally wrong Force than it I could be totally wrong yeah I want to Pivot a little bit but

yeah I want to Pivot a little bit but yeah I want to Pivot a little bit but still stay on the the same topic of

still stay on the the same topic of still stay on the the same topic of affiliate networks now obviously in the

affiliate networks now obviously in the affiliate networks now obviously in the real retail space like there's the a

real retail space like there's the a real retail space like there's the a wins the share of sales and some of

wins the share of sales and some of wins the share of sales and some of these Giants they make so much money but

these Giants they make so much money but these Giants they make so much money but they're using Legacy technology and

they're using Legacy technology and they're using Legacy technology and there's other ones like impact.com that

there's other ones like impact.com that there's other ones like impact.com that are trying to you know they're a bit

are trying to you know they're a bit are trying to you know they're a bit more newer I think and building more

more newer I think and building more more newer I think and building more interesting features do you think

interesting features do you think interesting features do you think there's a space where someone could say

there's a space where someone could say there's a space where someone could say okay not only am I doing a network and

okay not only am I doing a network and okay not only am I doing a network and what's a network one affiliate manager

what's a network one affiliate manager what's a network one affiliate manager one payment you get a better deal but

one payment you get a better deal but one payment you get a better deal but maybe they're going to add a couple more maybe they're going to add a couple more maybe they're going to add a couple more things saying you know if I'm getting

things saying you know if I'm getting things saying you know if I'm getting 20% of your business I have an incentive

20% of your business I have an incentive 20% of your business I have an incentive to help you with your SEO or at least

to help you with your SEO or at least to help you with your SEO or at least stay on top of it you could have like an

stay on top of it you could have like an stay on top of it you could have like an in-house SEO and say look if you're part

in-house SEO and say look if you're part in-house SEO and say look if you're part of our Network these are other things

of our Network these are other things of our Network these are other things that we do do you think there's an

that we do do you think there's an that we do do you think there's an opportunity here to say look we can do

opportunity here to say look we can do opportunity here to say look we can do all these extra B spoke services on top

all these extra B spoke services on top all these extra B spoke services on top of it to say look we're we're the next

of it to say look we're we're the next of it to say look we're we're the next level above the network there's going to

level above the network there's going to level above the network there's going to be a new version of it yeah no 100% and

be a new version of it yeah no 100% and be a new version of it yeah no 100% and actually I think they're probably doing actually I think they're probably doing actually I think they're probably doing it but just haven't named it um some of

it but just haven't named it um some of it but just haven't named it um some of the best affiliate managers I've seen

the best affiliate managers I've seen the best affiliate managers I've seen out there will be working side by side

out there will be working side by side out there will be working side by side with their affiliat um talking to them

with their affiliat um talking to them with their affiliat um talking to them about their SEO you could have done this

about their SEO you could have done this about their SEO you could have done this um B 365 I I used to be so impressed and

um B 365 I I used to be so impressed and um B 365 I I used to be so impressed and they probably still do it now I haven't they probably still do it now I haven't they probably still do it now I haven't seen but they used to come to probably seen but they used to come to probably seen but they used to come to probably not not not uh paper based anymore probably digital

uh paper based anymore probably digital uh paper based anymore probably digital with an iPad but they used to come to with an iPad but they used to come to with an iPad but they used to come to the event with these folders lined up in

the event with these folders lined up in the event with these folders lined up in their stand with profiles on the

their stand with profiles on the their stand with profiles on the affiliat it wouldn't be just for their

affiliat it wouldn't be just for their affiliat it wouldn't be just for their sake it would be like this is how you sake it would be like this is how you sake it would be like this is how you done this is where we see you can done this is where we see you can done this is where we see you can optimize this is where we see loads of

optimize this is where we see loads of optimize this is where we see loads of analysis of how they could be doing

analysis of how they could be doing analysis of how they could be doing better things with their side which will

better things with their side which will better things with their side which will not only benefit the affiliate and best5

not only benefit the affiliate and best5 not only benefit the affiliate and best5 but actually all the other partners and but actually all the other partners and but actually all the other partners and it was a really interesting holistic

it was a really interesting holistic it was a really interesting holistic view but also really generates that

view but also really generates that view but also really generates that loyalty and I think things like those

loyalty and I think things like those loyalty and I think things like those those key affiliate managers that think

those key affiliate managers that think those key affiliate managers that think that way or Brands like 365 that then

that way or Brands like 365 that then that way or Brands like 365 that then create this the L and means that they

create this the L and means that they create this the L and means that they continue to win awards every day but

continue to win awards every day but continue to win awards every day but yeah I think I think it probably just

yeah I think I think it probably just yeah I think I think it probably just needs to be named and then you someone

needs to be named and then you someone needs to be named and then you someone could pretend they're the first one could pretend they're the first one could pretend they're the first one actually they've be doing it for a long actually they've be doing it for a long actually they've be doing it for a long time yeah I I've been calling this like

time yeah I I've been calling this like time yeah I I've been calling this like affiliate Network 2.0 or even 3.0 where

affiliate Network 2.0 or even 3.0 where affiliate Network 2.0 or even 3.0 where the services are going to be built in I

the services are going to be built in I the services are going to be built in I mean heck I mean m&a advisory could

mean heck I mean m&a advisory could mean heck I mean m&a advisory could actually be a part of it but even buying

actually be a part of it but even buying actually be a part of it but even buying if they're using I don't know a a

if they're using I don't know a a if they're using I don't know a a software that helps drive conversion

software that helps drive conversion software that helps drive conversion actually buying that the network buying

actually buying that the network buying actually buying that the network buying that and actually either passing it on

that and actually either passing it on that and actually either passing it on for free or passing on there's lots of

for free or passing on there's lots of for free or passing on there's lots of things they can add value yeah like the

things they can add value yeah like the things they can add value yeah like the one thing I think that will actually

one thing I think that will actually one thing I think that will actually become a staple Within These networks

become a staple Within These networks become a staple Within These networks around the corner is going to be adte

around the corner is going to be adte around the corner is going to be adte like imagine you've got the logos the

like imagine you've got the logos the like imagine you've got the logos the compliance of the the offers the offers

compliance of the the offers the offers compliance of the the offers the offers in all the different languages I mean I

in all the different languages I mean I in all the different languages I mean I think a Affiliates are kind of wanting

think a Affiliates are kind of wanting think a Affiliates are kind of wanting the service where they don't have to the service where they don't have to the service where they don't have to maintain this database and this solves

maintain this database and this solves maintain this database and this solves problems on both sides of the fence like

problems on both sides of the fence like problems on both sides of the fence like even I don't if you see if you remember

even I don't if you see if you remember even I don't if you see if you remember uh right seen his new technology which

uh right seen his new technology which uh right seen his new technology which is this kind of AI chat boss I guess at

is this kind of AI chat boss I guess at is this kind of AI chat boss I guess at his basic level it's it's better than

his basic level it's it's better than his basic level it's it's better than our company what it's called boost box I our company what it's called boost box I our company what it's called boost box I think but plugging that into the

think but plugging that into the think but plugging that into the networks or into to operators Sal where

networks or into to operators Sal where networks or into to operators Sal where an affiliate can ask all the questions

an affiliate can ask all the questions an affiliate can ask all the questions they normally have with affili manag but

they normally have with affili manag but they normally have with affili manag but also ask it to generate content like I

also ask it to generate content like I also ask it to generate content like I want to article along Man United versus

want to article along Man United versus want to article along Man United versus Arsenal this Saturday I want you to

Arsenal this Saturday I want you to Arsenal this Saturday I want you to emphasize these key words I want to blah

emphasize these key words I want to blah emphasize these key words I want to blah blah blah blah blah obviously you then

blah blah blah blah obviously you then blah blah blah blah obviously you then need to do your own work there but need to do your own work there but need to do your own work there but actually that adds huge value and if

actually that adds huge value and if actually that adds huge value and if you're if you're thinking about who to

you're if you're thinking about who to you're if you're thinking about who to work with it's gonna it's hopefully will

work with it's gonna it's hopefully will work with it's gonna it's hopefully will kind of leave you towards that brand

kind of leave you towards that brand kind of leave you towards that brand over another one right so I want to talk

over another one right so I want to talk over another one right so I want to talk about Clarion where in my opinion

about Clarion where in my opinion about Clarion where in my opinion they've been a champion of responsible

they've been a champion of responsible they've been a champion of responsible gambling and do you think everyone in

gambling and do you think everyone in gambling and do you think everyone in igaming should care about this SE

igaming should care about this SE igaming should care about this SE segment

segment segment yeah I mean without doubt that I think

yeah I mean without doubt that I think yeah I mean without doubt that I think claran and I I say claran but I'd say

claran and I I say claran but I'd say claran and I I say claran but I'd say look it all starts with Eva backck and

look it all starts with Eva backck and look it all starts with Eva backck and sad Walters who were diard supporters

sad Walters who were diard supporters sad Walters who were diard supporters and drivers within Claren years ago on

and drivers within Claren years ago on and drivers within Claren years ago on slot of G when it wasn't a cool thing no

slot of G when it wasn't a cool thing no slot of G when it wasn't a cool thing no one really needed to do it they started

one really needed to do it they started one really needed to do it they started with a small conference on the mid Bank

with a small conference on the mid Bank with a small conference on the mid Bank probably 30 people when I came back into

probably 30 people when I came back into probably 30 people when I came back into to run claran gaming in

to run claran gaming in to run claran gaming in 2020 there was three things I kind of

2020 there was three things I kind of 2020 there was three things I kind of found that were I guess the core pain

found that were I guess the core pain found that were I guess the core pain points of the industry and they never points of the industry and they never points of the industry and they never really changed one is around Innovation

really changed one is around Innovation really changed one is around Innovation one's around with spal gambling and ones

one's around with spal gambling and ones one's around with spal gambling and ones around and compliance and regulation

around and compliance and regulation around and compliance and regulation particularly in emerging markets and

particularly in emerging markets and particularly in emerging markets and actually we took those as our pillars

actually we took those as our pillars actually we took those as our pillars for our business things that we stand by

for our business things that we stand by for our business things that we stand by so part of that was actually resp

so part of that was actually resp so part of that was actually resp respons of gaming Zone that we had the

respons of gaming Zone that we had the respons of gaming Zone that we had the cpz in ice why is it in the back like if

cpz in ice why is it in the back like if cpz in ice why is it in the back like if this is the most important thing of our

this is the most important thing of our this is the most important thing of our industry and actually ice is the window

industry and actually ice is the window industry and actually ice is the window the shopping window for government the shopping window for government the shopping window for government regulat legislators let's show them what

regulat legislators let's show them what regulat legislators let's show them what we're doing so we move into the FR we've

we're doing so we move into the FR we've we're doing so we move into the FR we've invested Fortunes in there we still

invested Fortunes in there we still invested Fortunes in there we still raised lots of money for charity so I

raised lots of money for charity so I raised lots of money for charity so I think it's moved from being something

think it's moved from being something think it's moved from being something that you kind of tick tox or nice to

that you kind of tick tox or nice to that you kind of tick tox or nice to have much like sustainability moving

have much like sustainability moving have much like sustainability moving through that journey to something that

through that journey to something that through that journey to something that is essential like you can't exist as a

is essential like you can't exist as a is essential like you can't exist as a business without acknowledging result G

business without acknowledging result G business without acknowledging result G if you're not then to be honest you're

if you're not then to be honest you're if you're not then to be honest you're probably not welcome at our events and

probably not welcome at our events and probably not welcome at our events and in the industry certainly now and

in the industry certainly now and in the industry certainly now and definitely in the the long term and I

definitely in the the long term and I definitely in the the long term and I guess that's why we renamed it this year

guess that's why we renamed it this year guess that's why we renamed it this year from the consumer protection Zone to the

from the consumer protection Zone to the from the consumer protection Zone to the sustainable gambling Zone and that's

sustainable gambling Zone and that's sustainable gambling Zone and that's because it's about creating

because it's about creating because it's about creating sustainability like we at our call we're

sustainability like we at our call we're sustainability like we at our call we're we're an industry of entertainment we we

we're an industry of entertainment we we we're an industry of entertainment we we create and deliver entertainment for for

create and deliver entertainment for for create and deliver entertainment for for our players and actually it's about

our players and actually it's about our players and actually it's about creating a sustainable environment for

creating a sustainable environment for creating a sustainable environment for that entertainment soly it's not about

that entertainment soly it's not about that entertainment soly it's not about taking all the money on day one or or

taking all the money on day one or or taking all the money on day one or or having someone with a problem gambling

having someone with a problem gambling having someone with a problem gambling on on your site actually creating this

on on your site actually creating this on on your site actually creating this sustainable protected environment I

sustainable protected environment I sustainable protected environment I think that's yeah it's where the

think that's yeah it's where the think that's yeah it's where the industry is going it's where we're industry is going it's where we're industry is going it's where we're really focusing and and I think we'll

really focusing and and I think we'll really focusing and and I think we'll see it more and more at our events I

see it more and more at our events I see it more and more at our events I will be surprised if we don't have an

will be surprised if we don't have an will be surprised if we don't have an entire Hall dedicated to resp

entire Hall dedicated to resp entire Hall dedicated to resp responsible gaming with the next few

responsible gaming with the next few responsible gaming with the next few years it's just so much work going and

years it's just so much work going and years it's just so much work going and so much technology yeah that's brilliant

so much technology yeah that's brilliant so much technology yeah that's brilliant and maybe we won't touch upon non-

and maybe we won't touch upon non- and maybe we won't touch upon non- gamstop

gamstop gamstop sites the evil people yeah they're

sites the evil people yeah they're sites the evil people yeah they're everywhere and it's changing I mean it

everywhere and it's changing I mean it everywhere and it's changing I mean it makes me sick but yeah you mentioned

makes me sick but yeah you mentioned makes me sick but yeah you mentioned like responsible gambling and you said

like responsible gambling and you said like responsible gambling and you said Innovation when you said innovation's a

Innovation when you said innovation's a Innovation when you said innovation's a key thing that you want to focus on with key thing that you want to focus on with key thing that you want to focus on with claran that's kind of implying like do

claran that's kind of implying like do claran that's kind of implying like do you think there's a a lot of lack of

you think there's a a lot of lack of you think there's a a lot of lack of innovation I mean one of the questions I

innovation I mean one of the questions I innovation I mean one of the questions I wrote out for you was to say that I

wrote out for you was to say that I wrote out for you was to say that I think because IG gaming has had so much

think because IG gaming has had so much think because IG gaming has had so much money it's actually decreased the

money it's actually decreased the money it's actually decreased the pressure for people to be Innovative

pressure for people to be Innovative pressure for people to be Innovative because they're like look you can launch

because they're like look you can launch because they're like look you can launch an affiliate site like you've seen these

an affiliate site like you've seen these an affiliate site like you've seen these Affiliates launch no budget and become

Affiliates launch no budget and become Affiliates launch no budget and become like you know making millions per and

like you know making millions per and like you know making millions per and same thing on the operator side you

same thing on the operator side you same thing on the operator side you could launch a white label on a pretty

could launch a white label on a pretty could launch a white label on a pretty minimal budget and say look you just add

minimal budget and say look you just add minimal budget and say look you just add Affiliates click click click you're we

Affiliates click click click you're we Affiliates click click click you're we yeah no I agree I think there's two

yeah no I agree I think there's two yeah no I agree I think there's two things one is the sector is is growing

things one is the sector is is growing things one is the sector is is growing it's a fast leading sector it's still I

it's a fast leading sector it's still I it's a fast leading sector it's still I mean the first bet was 1996 so actually

mean the first bet was 1996 so actually mean the first bet was 1996 so actually it's relatively we're getting older now

it's relatively we're getting older now it's relatively we're getting older now but it's still there's still Emerging

but it's still there's still Emerging but it's still there's still Emerging Market still emerging technology with

Market still emerging technology with Market still emerging technology with still so many players that aren't

still so many players that aren't still so many players that aren't playing yet um so he growing really fast

playing yet um so he growing really fast playing yet um so he growing really fast and see even from an event perspective

and see even from an event perspective and see even from an event perspective we could I say this interning all time

we could I say this interning all time we could I say this interning all time we could sit here and outperform every

we could sit here and outperform every we could sit here and outperform every event cross the CL in portfolio

event cross the CL in portfolio event cross the CL in portfolio fundamentally doing nothing just living

fundamentally doing nothing just living fundamentally doing nothing just living off our brand so it's really important

off our brand so it's really important off our brand so it's really important for me as a business to also innovate

for me as a business to also innovate for me as a business to also innovate and actually what can we do differently

and actually what can we do differently and actually what can we do differently how do we outperform the the the growth

how do we outperform the the the growth how do we outperform the the the growth that's already in the market so we need that's already in the market so we need that's already in the market so we need to be looking at Double Digit growth I

to be looking at Double Digit growth I to be looking at Double Digit growth I think in the sector it does if you don't

think in the sector it does if you don't think in the sector it does if you don't need to why would you I think there is

need to why would you I think there is need to why would you I think there is some of that attitude I do think we

some of that attitude I do think we some of that attitude I do think we don't necessarily have the best

don't necessarily have the best don't necessarily have the best regulatory environments for Innovation

regulatory environments for Innovation regulatory environments for Innovation if you're going to truly innovate is it

if you're going to truly innovate is it if you're going to truly innovate is it really worth putting all that money in

really worth putting all that money in really worth putting all that money in knowing that actually it might not get knowing that actually it might not get knowing that actually it might not get approved it might need changes it's

approved it might need changes it's approved it might need changes it's going to take time so there's not as

going to take time so there's not as going to take time so there's not as much of an appeti and actually much of an appeti and actually much of an appeti and actually interestingly talking to the UAE they're

interestingly talking to the UAE they're interestingly talking to the UAE they're very much about um creating a

very much about um creating a very much about um creating a jurisdiction that that helps support and

jurisdiction that that helps support and jurisdiction that that helps support and encourage Innovation so he he's Kevin

encourage Innovation so he he's Kevin encourage Innovation so he he's Kevin his C gcd was saying the other day that

his C gcd was saying the other day that his C gcd was saying the other day that he's sick and not a direct quote but

he's sick and not a direct quote but he's sick and not a direct quote but he's sick of hearing this industry

he's sick of hearing this industry he's sick of hearing this industry there're saying there's no innovation there're saying there's no innovation there're saying there's no innovation well actually he wants to see that well actually he wants to see that well actually he wants to see that Innovation whether it's in landbased

Innovation whether it's in landbased Innovation whether it's in landbased whether it's in the architecture the

whether it's in the architecture the whether it's in the architecture the environment that you play online all

environment that you play online all environment that you play online all those things so I think we will start to

those things so I think we will start to those things so I think we will start to see that change interestingly I part of

see that change interestingly I part of see that change interestingly I part of that focus on Innovation we've for the

that focus on Innovation we've for the that focus on Innovation we've for the last 12 months we've worked with um

last 12 months we've worked with um last 12 months we've worked with um quite a big technology Association to

quite a big technology Association to quite a big technology Association to try and bring them on the journey that

try and bring them on the journey that try and bring them on the journey that actually gaming isn't this scary

actually gaming isn't this scary actually gaming isn't this scary environment like maybe actually it it is

environment like maybe actually it it is environment like maybe actually it it is about envir is about entertainment

about envir is about entertainment about envir is about entertainment you're probably working with these you're probably working with these you're probably working with these customers already but don't realize and

customers already but don't realize and customers already but don't realize and look at the opportunity so at ice you've

look at the opportunity so at ice you've look at the opportunity so at ice you've actually got a load of kind of VIP Tech

actually got a load of kind of VIP Tech actually got a load of kind of VIP Tech teeken investor tours going around to

teeken investor tours going around to teeken investor tours going around to meet some of the best suppliers some of

meet some of the best suppliers some of meet some of the best suppliers some of the best innovators so people that on

the best innovators so people that on the best innovators so people that on called I think Amazon web services vone

called I think Amazon web services vone called I think Amazon web services vone I can't remember all the kind lots of I can't remember all the kind lots of I can't remember all the kind lots of newcoming from out side sector to have a

newcoming from out side sector to have a newcoming from out side sector to have a look go actually look have a look at

look go actually look have a look at look go actually look have a look at what we do have a look at our products

what we do have a look at our products what we do have a look at our products what what could you do to help this

what what could you do to help this what what could you do to help this sector innovate what would you do sector innovate what would you do sector innovate what would you do differently so I think it it's it is

differently so I think it it's it is differently so I think it it's it is it's a difficult environment we're all it's a difficult environment we're all it's a difficult environment we're all making lots of money but that doesn't

making lots of money but that doesn't making lots of money but that doesn't mean it's still the the bug bear of the

mean it's still the the bug bear of the mean it's still the the bug bear of the sector if you talk to anyone so I think

sector if you talk to anyone so I think sector if you talk to anyone so I think that I'll keep going on but I think the

that I'll keep going on but I think the that I'll keep going on but I think the ice and I live were really focusing on

ice and I live were really focusing on ice and I live were really focusing on that kind of pitch um concept that's

that kind of pitch um concept that's that kind of pitch um concept that's startup every event has it again it's

startup every event has it again it's startup every event has it again it's one of those things that people keep one of those things that people keep one of those things that people keep sticking at the back of the roof well if sticking at the back of the roof well if sticking at the back of the roof well if it's so important why is it at the back

it's so important why is it at the back it's so important why is it at the back in this lonely place where actually that

in this lonely place where actually that in this lonely place where actually that that corner is your future of your

that corner is your future of your that corner is your future of your industry so we need to we need to move

industry so we need to we need to move industry so we need to we need to move that and and put it up on a plat of

that and and put it up on a plat of that and and put it up on a plat of pedestal and so you'll see ice actually

pedestal and so you'll see ice actually pedestal and so you'll see ice actually it's in the center of the room this is

it's in the center of the room this is it's in the center of the room this is only year one year two year three is

only year one year two year three is only year one year two year three is where I think you'll see you'll be

where I think you'll see you'll be where I think you'll see you'll be shocked the investment and size and the

shocked the investment and size and the shocked the investment and size and the support we will get from I hope from

support we will get from I hope from support we will get from I hope from associ iations government cities in

associ iations government cities in associ iations government cities in order to drive that Innovation and the

order to drive that Innovation and the order to drive that Innovation and the investment we get there and you can see investment we get there and you can see investment we get there and you can see it mile World Congress that's what

it mile World Congress that's what it mile World Congress that's what inspired me they have a part four 4 YN

inspired me they have a part four 4 YN inspired me they have a part four 4 YN four four years from now 600 exhibitors

four four years from now 600 exhibitors four four years from now 600 exhibitors in there all startups and the Buzzy It's

in there all startups and the Buzzy It's in there all startups and the Buzzy It's amazing And I'd say 30 40% of those

amazing And I'd say 30 40% of those amazing And I'd say 30 40% of those could be working gaming a lot of is MCH

could be working gaming a lot of is MCH could be working gaming a lot of is MCH R Tech and actually it's like one we we

R Tech and actually it's like one we we R Tech and actually it's like one we we have we as custodians of the sector that

have we as custodians of the sector that have we as custodians of the sector that independently actually should be doing independently actually should be doing independently actually should be doing the work to bring those guys in say I

the work to bring those guys in say I the work to bring those guys in say I don't think it's dead yet but it's still

don't think it's dead yet but it's still don't think it's dead yet but it's still yeah there needs to be more but we don't

yeah there needs to be more but we don't yeah there needs to be more but we don't it's just not the pressure yeah so you

it's just not the pressure yeah so you it's just not the pressure yeah so you must have a really good view into the

must have a really good view into the must have a really good view into the next projects that you think are going

next projects that you think are going next projects that you think are going to be exciting so I want to ask what do

to be exciting so I want to ask what do to be exciting so I want to ask what do you see coming through the door that you see coming through the door that you see coming through the door that excites you apart from everything we're

excites you apart from everything we're excites you apart from everything we're doing so there's are good stuff there

doing so there's are good stuff there doing so there's are good stuff there now we we we've done a lot not just on

now we we we've done a lot not just on now we we we've done a lot not just on our line but our digital recap for new

our line but our digital recap for new our line but our digital recap for new Tex St trying to dve transparent Roi I

Tex St trying to dve transparent Roi I Tex St trying to dve transparent Roi I think the things that are interesting me

think the things that are interesting me think the things that are interesting me I know everyone goes to it because it's

I know everyone goes to it because it's I know everyone goes to it because it's just an easy subject is around what AI

just an easy subject is around what AI just an easy subject is around what AI the impact of AI and at the moment it's

the impact of AI and at the moment it's the impact of AI and at the moment it's super low level I me you're not seeing

super low level I me you're not seeing super low level I me you're not seeing huge like change and I think that's in

huge like change and I think that's in huge like change and I think that's in most sectors because you've got to

most sectors because you've got to most sectors because you've got to understand it it's got to become more

understand it it's got to become more understand it it's got to become more cost efficient but I see the interesting

cost efficient but I see the interesting cost efficient but I see the interesting thing to me is around the role AI can

thing to me is around the role AI can thing to me is around the role AI can play in sustainable gambling and

play in sustainable gambling and play in sustainable gambling and responsible gambling and how we can use

responsible gambling and how we can use responsible gambling and how we can use that to help make our our industry

that to help make our our industry that to help make our our industry better help make the environment more

better help make the environment more better help make the environment more entertaining more safer which can only

entertaining more safer which can only entertaining more safer which can only help them grow grow the industry grow

help them grow grow the industry grow help them grow grow the industry grow the business so I think this we'll see

the business so I think this we'll see the business so I think this we'll see some of that Tech icing next week but I

some of that Tech icing next week but I some of that Tech icing next week but I think that's only just touching the C I

think that's only just touching the C I think that's only just touching the C I think what what will come in the future

think what what will come in the future think what what will come in the future will be incredibly exciting so we talk

will be incredibly exciting so we talk will be incredibly exciting so we talk and actually that's somewhere where and actually that's somewhere where and actually that's somewhere where people will fund and and innovate and we

people will fund and and innovate and we people will fund and and innovate and we good I think so I think part of the AI I

good I think so I think part of the AI I good I think so I think part of the AI I don't want to call it problem but I don't want to call it problem but I don't want to call it problem but I think the way some things can be solved

think the way some things can be solved think the way some things can be solved is by just being a data company like by

is by just being a data company like by is by just being a data company like by providing more data services you can say

providing more data services you can say providing more data services you can say well then you can apply AI on it and

well then you can apply AI on it and well then you can apply AI on it and then that can go in 100 100 different

then that can go in 100 100 different then that can go in 100 100 different directions so I think this is both in

directions so I think this is both in directions so I think this is both in the affiliate space and the operator and

the affiliate space and the operator and the affiliate space and the operator and the bdb services all of it and we sit on

the bdb services all of it and we sit on the bdb services all of it and we sit on so much data so much and and and I mean

so much data so much and and and I mean so much data so much and and and I mean half the problem is that no one shares

half the problem is that no one shares half the problem is that no one shares it so that's a whole another yeah that

it so that's a whole another yeah that it so that's a whole another yeah that could change so we talked a little bit

could change so we talked a little bit could change so we talked a little bit about m&a and I want to ask what do you

about m&a and I want to ask what do you about m&a and I want to ask what do you see in the investor side of the business

see in the investor side of the business see in the investor side of the business like is this an easy time to raise money

like is this an easy time to raise money like is this an easy time to raise money or is it difficult like what everyone

or is it difficult like what everyone or is it difficult like what everyone else is experiencing in the SAS world

else is experiencing in the SAS world else is experiencing in the SAS world you know is there I think there's a lot

you know is there I think there's a lot you know is there I think there's a lot of money uh to be deployed into startups

of money uh to be deployed into startups of money uh to be deployed into startups but uh what are you seeing on your side

but uh what are you seeing on your side but uh what are you seeing on your side yeah look I'm seeing certainly seeing

yeah look I'm seeing certainly seeing yeah look I'm seeing certainly seeing more interest certainly seeing more

more interest certainly seeing more more interest certainly seeing more people from outside of the sector which

people from outside of the sector which people from outside of the sector which I think is always important there's a

I think is always important there's a I think is always important there's a there's always a lot of blow of money

there's always a lot of blow of money there's always a lot of blow of money from inside people that have exited

from inside people that have exited from inside people that have exited people that were here in the old days people that were here in the old days people that were here in the old days and then set up their own kind of

and then set up their own kind of and then set up their own kind of investment vehicles which is great they

investment vehicles which is great they investment vehicles which is great they know the sector they know the know the sector they know the know the sector they know the opportunity they've done it before but opportunity they've done it before but opportunity they've done it before but actually seeing external money coming I

actually seeing external money coming I actually seeing external money coming I think it's more interesting both from an

think it's more interesting both from an think it's more interesting both from an online and landbased perspective so I

online and landbased perspective so I online and landbased perspective so I think people are recognizing as the

think people are recognizing as the think people are recognizing as the sector regulates more and more as people

sector regulates more and more as people sector regulates more and more as people understand that this is a technology understand that this is a technology understand that this is a technology driven business that is not CD that it

driven business that is not CD that it driven business that is not CD that it is about entertainment that it is about

is about entertainment that it is about is about entertainment that it is about responsible gaming that that there's

responsible gaming that that there's responsible gaming that that there's more money coming into it and it and

more money coming into it and it and more money coming into it and it and it's a sector that is relatively young

it's a sector that is relatively young it's a sector that is relatively young and actually is got so much opportunity

and actually is got so much opportunity and actually is got so much opportunity in it so I think look it's never easy

in it so I think look it's never easy in it so I think look it's never easy raising money is never easy but I think

raising money is never easy but I think raising money is never easy but I think there I I'd say there's more there's

there I I'd say there's more there's there I I'd say there's more there's more opportunity I think in the last

more opportunity I think in the last more opportunity I think in the last couple of years than than I've seen

couple of years than than I've seen couple of years than than I've seen before and we're seeing more investors

before and we're seeing more investors before and we're seeing more investors register so that's kind of one of my dat

register so that's kind of one of my dat register so that's kind of one of my dat points is that the the interest that

points is that the the interest that points is that the the interest that that come to I that were registered to

that come to I that were registered to that come to I that were registered to attend those pitch sessions we're seeing attend those pitch sessions we're seeing attend those pitch sessions we're seeing more a bigger variet more people in a

more a bigger variet more people in a more a bigger variet more people in a bigger variety coming in so yeah I think

bigger variety coming in so yeah I think bigger variety coming in so yeah I think really interesting time to be and I

really interesting time to be and I really interesting time to be and I guess that would be a mix of everything guess that would be a mix of everything guess that would be a mix of everything like Venture Capital Angel Investors you

like Venture Capital Angel Investors you like Venture Capital Angel Investors you name it yeah and then right up to the

name it yeah and then right up to the name it yeah and then right up to the usual investors that have the big

usual investors that have the big usual investors that have the big wallets they carry their their suitcase

wallets they carry their their suitcase wallets they carry their their suitcase behind them so would you say that I mean

behind them so would you say that I mean behind them so would you say that I mean there's I mean an opportunity for the

there's I mean an opportunity for the there's I mean an opportunity for the industry to double itself

industry to double itself industry to double itself double is a massive

double is a massive double is a massive word uh I think there is a huge

word uh I think there is a huge word uh I think there is a huge opportunity for big big growth in this

opportunity for big big growth in this opportunity for big big growth in this sector um certainly from our perspective

sector um certainly from our perspective sector um certainly from our perspective we over the next few years we're looking

we over the next few years we're looking we over the next few years we're looking here we're forecasting high growth in

here we're forecasting high growth in here we're forecasting high growth in some places doubling probably not in a

some places doubling probably not in a some places doubling probably not in a year but in the next few years and I

year but in the next few years and I year but in the next few years and I think that we can only double if our

think that we can only double if our think that we can only double if our customers are also doubling and I think

customers are also doubling and I think customers are also doubling and I think a lot of that will come from

a lot of that will come from a lot of that will come from efficiencies I think some of it will

efficiencies I think some of it will efficiencies I think some of it will come from consolidation but I think more

come from consolidation but I think more come from consolidation but I think more so is around these emerging markets

so is around these emerging markets so is around these emerging markets around new technology around regulation

around new technology around regulation around new technology around regulation I think there's there's still so much

I think there's there's still so much I think there's there's still so much opportunity and we're only really

opportunity and we're only really opportunity and we're only really touching on it part of that you have to

touching on it part of that you have to touching on it part of that you have to do as an individual business part of do as an individual business part of do as an individual business part of that we actually have to do as an that we actually have to do as an that we actually have to do as an industry we've got a story to tell and

industry we've got a story to tell and industry we've got a story to tell and we have to be proud of it and I think we

we have to be proud of it and I think we we have to be proud of it and I think we need to come out and that part of moving

need to come out and that part of moving need to come out and that part of moving to Spain was actually when we had

to Spain was actually when we had to Spain was actually when we had conversations with all the various conversations with all the various conversations with all the various cities was actually this is it we're not

cities was actually this is it we're not cities was actually this is it we're not coming and we're not going to hide coming and we're not going to hide coming and we're not going to hide inside a inside a hall we want to be

inside a inside a hall we want to be inside a inside a hall we want to be part of your city we're proud of our

part of your city we're proud of our part of your city we're proud of our sector we are technology we have jobs we

sector we are technology we have jobs we sector we are technology we have jobs we have Innovation and I think that's the

have Innovation and I think that's the have Innovation and I think that's the narrative we have to keep pushing at

narrative we have to keep pushing at narrative we have to keep pushing at that and then underline with providing

that and then underline with providing that and then underline with providing entertainment that that's what we're

entertainment that that's what we're entertainment that that's what we're doing we're we're looking to take doing we're we're looking to take doing we're we're looking to take people's entertainment time so our

people's entertainment time so our people's entertainment time so our competitors aren't necessarily always

competitors aren't necessarily always competitors aren't necessarily always each other yeah the sector we got a

each other yeah the sector we got a each other yeah the sector we got a reputation thing to to work on yeah it's

reputation thing to to work on yeah it's reputation thing to to work on yeah it's like on par with like a Mobile World

like on par with like a Mobile World like on par with like a Mobile World Congress like that's yeah that that's

Congress like that's yeah that that's Congress like that's yeah that that's like an Institutional conference in

like an Institutional conference in like an Institutional conference in Barcelona it's that's everything for a

Barcelona it's that's everything for a Barcelona it's that's everything for a lot of people yeah and I remember when I

lot of people yeah and I remember when I lot of people yeah and I remember when I first started doing events you know the

first started doing events you know the first started doing events you know the people that steal well that steal

people that steal well that steal people that steal well that steal because say don't have the data the because say don't have the data the because say don't have the data the people that send email saying buy these people that send email saying buy these people that send email saying buy these list buy these lists and I was like one

list buy these lists and I was like one list buy these lists and I was like one day I'm gonna have an event where they

day I'm gonna have an event where they day I'm gonna have an event where they like sell my lists because you're big

like sell my lists because you're big like sell my lists because you're big enough to for them to come after you now

enough to for them to come after you now enough to for them to come after you now I got there now it's like I want it be

I got there now it's like I want it be I got there now it's like I want it be big enough to be to have protests

big enough to be to have protests big enough to be to have protests outside that tell us that we're outside that tell us that we're outside that tell us that we're disrupting their city in puty in sansil

disrupting their city in puty in sansil disrupting their city in puty in sansil not Sigma mot style sort of somewhere in

not Sigma mot style sort of somewhere in not Sigma mot style sort of somewhere in between I will regret saying that they

between I will regret saying that they between I will regret saying that they probably don't want to stop a city but

probably don't want to stop a city but probably don't want to stop a city but look Isis he must be in the top five top

look Isis he must be in the top five top look Isis he must be in the top five top 10 of B2B eventss in Europe now one of

10 of B2B eventss in Europe now one of 10 of B2B eventss in Europe now one of the most important and actually I don't

the most important and actually I don't the most important and actually I don't see why that can't come into the sort of

see why that can't come into the sort of see why that can't come into the sort of top three uh based on the size of our

top three uh based on the size of our top three uh based on the size of our sector as we start to move into to other

sector as we start to move into to other sector as we start to move into to other areas whether it's hospitality and

areas whether it's hospitality and areas whether it's hospitality and Hospitality Tech and all the bits that

Hospitality Tech and all the bits that Hospitality Tech and all the bits that come around come around come around gaming and so what do you see of the

gaming and so what do you see of the gaming and so what do you see of the future of uh affiliate marketing as it

future of uh affiliate marketing as it future of uh affiliate marketing as it intersects with business

intersects with business intersects with business intelligence now I think it's I think

intelligence now I think it's I think intelligence now I think it's I think when you look for me whether it's

when you look for me whether it's when you look for me whether it's affiliate marketing Avance running media

affiliate marketing Avance running media affiliate marketing Avance running media running the shop down the road data is

running the shop down the road data is running the shop down the road data is critical another one of our kind of Po

critical another one of our kind of Po critical another one of our kind of Po core values is is data there's more for

core values is is data there's more for core values is is data there's more for me people will often te me but there

me people will often te me but there me people will often te me but there isn't any CS I am like there's always a

isn't any CS I am like there's always a isn't any CS I am like there's always a data source there is and actually as we

data source there is and actually as we data source there is and actually as we and I could talk from our perspective is

and I could talk from our perspective is and I could talk from our perspective is as technology and the price of the techy

as technology and the price of the techy as technology and the price of the techy Technologies come down we've been able

Technologies come down we've been able Technologies come down we've been able to se and find so many opportunities so

to se and find so many opportunities so to se and find so many opportunities so we can Now understand or starting to

we can Now understand or starting to we can Now understand or starting to understand a understand a understand a customer 365 days of the year what what

customer 365 days of the year what what customer 365 days of the year what what they're reading emails they're opening

they're reading emails they're opening they're reading emails they're opening what they do on site what meetings what they do on site what meetings what they do on site what meetings they're requesting what meetings didn't they're requesting what meetings didn't they're requesting what meetings didn't turn up what they said they wanted to do

turn up what they said they wanted to do turn up what they said they wanted to do at the show to what they didn't do at at the show to what they didn't do at at the show to what they didn't do at the show and that data opens up a an

the show and that data opens up a an the show and that data opens up a an amazing opportunity to improve

amazing opportunity to improve amazing opportunity to improve experience improve our product but also

experience improve our product but also experience improve our product but also tons of new products loads of new ways

tons of new products loads of new ways tons of new products loads of new ways that we can monetize and I think it's

that we can monetize and I think it's that we can monetize and I think it's the same for affiliate sector the more

the same for affiliate sector the more the same for affiliate sector the more that we can understand what is happening

that we can understand what is happening that we can understand what is happening on our sites whether it's tracking

on our sites whether it's tracking on our sites whether it's tracking conversion data um retention it it can

conversion data um retention it it can conversion data um retention it it can only help improve performance it can

only help improve performance it can only help improve performance it can only help us as a business justify our

only help us as a business justify our only help us as a business justify our role within the sector I think often

role within the sector I think often role within the sector I think often less than now often

less than now often less than now often filia had a bit of a bad rra that it

filia had a bit of a bad rra that it filia had a bit of a bad rra that it wasn't delivering high quality or II

wasn't delivering high quality or II wasn't delivering high quality or II that actually is we start to move into

that actually is we start to move into that actually is we start to move into this new business intelligence world we

this new business intelligence world we this new business intelligence world we actually can stand here and say look

actually can stand here and say look actually can stand here and say look this is the ri we deliver but beyond

this is the ri we deliver but beyond this is the ri we deliver but beyond just player acquisition this is how

just player acquisition this is how just player acquisition this is how we're enhancing your brand this is how

we're enhancing your brand this is how we're enhancing your brand this is how we've improved your retention of your

we've improved your retention of your we've improved your retention of your players right now we're not being

players right now we're not being players right now we're not being rewarded for that but actually let's

rewarded for that but actually let's rewarded for that but actually let's start to talk about what that looks like

start to talk about what that looks like start to talk about what that looks like and I think the same on the reverse

and I think the same on the reverse and I think the same on the reverse those those those operators all already have a lot of that

operators all already have a lot of that operators all already have a lot of that data but they're getting more and more

data but they're getting more and more data but they're getting more and more and actually the key is to have a more

and actually the key is to have a more and actually the key is to have a more open and transparent relationship so

open and transparent relationship so open and transparent relationship so actually by opening their data up the

actually by opening their data up the actually by opening their data up the the Affinity can only be better it goes

the Affinity can only be better it goes the Affinity can only be better it goes back to what we were talking about back to what we were talking about back to what we were talking about earlier what what services can they earlier what what services can they earlier what what services can they offer actually if you can start if you

offer actually if you can start if you offer actually if you can start if you can tell the the affiliate this is

can tell the the affiliate this is can tell the the affiliate this is what's happening with these users and

what's happening with these users and what's happening with these users and what how they play or what they're doing

what how they play or what they're doing what how they play or what they're doing like how could or what you did here or

like how could or what you did here or like how could or what you did here or whatever whatever it is it can only

whatever whatever it is it can only whatever whatever it is it can only create create create a better experience for everyone

a better experience for everyone a better experience for everyone including the players which I guess is

including the players which I guess is including the players which I guess is ultimately the end game so I think it's

ultimately the end game so I think it's ultimately the end game so I think it's it's really exciting but exciting across

it's really exciting but exciting across it's really exciting but exciting across the board which means you're in the

the board which means you're in the the board which means you're in the right place right place right place John I was literally goingon to say that

John I was literally goingon to say that John I was literally goingon to say that as a comment thank you for the as a comment thank you for the as a comment thank you for the justification I appreciate it no I think

justification I appreciate it no I think justification I appreciate it no I think what you're doing is is is so

what you're doing is is is so what you're doing is is is so interesting because that I when my brain

interesting because that I when my brain interesting because that I when my brain starts to wonder I start to think about

starts to wonder I start to think about starts to wonder I start to think about all the data points that you've got and

all the data points that you've got and all the data points that you've got and actually probably half the problem is

actually probably half the problem is actually probably half the problem is you have so many that it's where to

you have so many that it's where to you have so many that it's where to start but even just two or three data

start but even just two or three data start but even just two or three data points within your product would be a

points within your product would be a points within your product would be a product in itself that would help with

product in itself that would help with product in itself that would help with when it's benchmarking or or just really

when it's benchmarking or or just really when it's benchmarking or or just really interesting yeah the the one thing that

interesting yeah the the one thing that interesting yeah the the one thing that we've been zeroing in on of late is with

we've been zeroing in on of late is with we've been zeroing in on of late is with Dynamic variables where you have click Dynamic variables where you have click Dynamic variables where you have click ID now what's happening like we we at

ID now what's happening like we we at ID now what's happening like we we at the very beginning of this conversation the very beginning of this conversation the very beginning of this conversation we talked about what is working or what

we talked about what is working or what we talked about what is working or what is changing in affiliate marketing and I

is changing in affiliate marketing and I is changing in affiliate marketing and I think the SEO affiliate sites are kind

think the SEO affiliate sites are kind think the SEO affiliate sites are kind of Disappearing it's like you need a

of Disappearing it's like you need a of Disappearing it's like you need a product what and what's a product a

product what and what's a product a product what and what's a product a product is the ability to capture the

product is the ability to capture the product is the ability to capture the user's email some first-party data so

user's email some first-party data so user's email some first-party data so when you have first-party data you can

when you have first-party data you can when you have first-party data you can actually control the exact click ID so

actually control the exact click ID so actually control the exact click ID so now when you get the actual reports

now when you get the actual reports now when you get the actual reports coming back from the operator you can

coming back from the operator you can coming back from the operator you can actually get that data fed back so you actually get that data fed back so you actually get that data fed back so you actually you you know the deposit

actually you you know the deposit actually you you know the deposit activity the revenue activity of that activity the revenue activity of that activity the revenue activity of that player and then the data tools that are

player and then the data tools that are player and then the data tools that are just starting to emerge on the operator

just starting to emerge on the operator just starting to emerge on the operator space are player engagement reports like

space are player engagement reports like space are player engagement reports like what games did they play the deposit

what games did they play the deposit what games did they play the deposit method so this data is now going to be

method so this data is now going to be method so this data is now going to be fed back I think this is going to be

fed back I think this is going to be fed back I think this is going to be exciting space for Phil to say not only

exciting space for Phil to say not only exciting space for Phil to say not only do you have like the ability to send

do you have like the ability to send do you have like the ability to send newsletters and go what is the activity

newsletters and go what is the activity newsletters and go what is the activity rate but to actually know what

rate but to actually know what rate but to actually know what newsletters are working and marry that

newsletters are working and marry that newsletters are working and marry that back with first-party data I think back with first-party data I think back with first-party data I think first- party data is going to be the big

first- party data is going to be the big first- party data is going to be the big uh game Cher my my threeyear strategy

uh game Cher my my threeyear strategy uh game Cher my my threeyear strategy for for claring gaming is all about

for for claring gaming is all about for for claring gaming is all about first party it's all like it's

first party it's all like it's first party it's all like it's everything is about that owning that

everything is about that owning that everything is about that owning that that data and it allows us to do so much

that data and it allows us to do so much that data and it allows us to do so much more

more more yeah Alex thank you so much for doing

yeah Alex thank you so much for doing yeah Alex thank you so much for doing this uh how can people get a hold of you

this uh how can people get a hold of you this uh how can people get a hold of you if you want them to get a hold of you

if you want them to get a hold of you if you want them to get a hold of you loads of different ways like well I've

loads of different ways like well I've loads of different ways like well I've actually given up 90% of social media

actually given up 90% of social media actually given up 90% of social media these days I do have an account on

these days I do have an account on these days I do have an account on Facebook because that's where everyone Facebook because that's where everyone Facebook because that's where everyone used to hang out I turn and now and used to hang out I turn and now and used to hang out I turn and now and again I go in there when I need G ke or

again I go in there when I need G ke or again I go in there when I need G ke or some to Mena race and I see everyone's

some to Mena race and I see everyone's some to Mena race and I see everyone's still there but LinkedIn always find me

still there but LinkedIn always find me still there but LinkedIn always find me on there I don't what it is probably on there I don't what it is probably on there I don't what it is probably Alexs and on email as well alex. claran

Alexs and on email as well alex. claran Alexs and on email as well alex. claran events.com but or find me at an event

events.com but or find me at an event events.com but or find me at an event find me anywhere I'm we open

find me anywhere I'm we open find me anywhere I'm we open book awesome we'll include those links

book awesome we'll include those links book awesome we'll include those links in the show notes more for the events

in the show notes more for the events in the show notes more for the events themselves thank you so much thank

you thank you for tuning in to the you thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to

this time to ask for a small favor to this time to ask for a small favor to leave a rating and review wherever you

leave a rating and review wherever you leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast that helps us

listen to your podcast that helps us listen to your podcast that helps us expand our reach to rank higher in

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