B2B Affiliate Marketing with David Shapiro

affiliate Commerce is definitely having affiliate Commerce is definitely having its moment right after we said a long

its moment right after we said a long its moment right after we said a long time of of existing but not necessarily

time of of existing but not necessarily time of of existing but not necessarily being considered not necessarily getting

being considered not necessarily getting being considered not necessarily getting the best valuations in the marketplace

the best valuations in the marketplace the best valuations in the marketplace you're seeing companies in the space now

you're seeing companies in the space now you're seeing companies in the space now receive huge valuations huge multiples

receive huge valuations huge multiples receive huge valuations huge multiples and there's a good reason for it because and there's a good reason for it because and there's a good reason for it because it's a great way to diversify your

it's a great way to diversify your it's a great way to diversify your Revenue base just like we're talking Revenue base just like we're talking Revenue base just like we're talking about if you're forecasting a 10%

about if you're forecasting a 10% about if you're forecasting a 10% decline in ad Revenue say on your site

decline in ad Revenue say on your site decline in ad Revenue say on your site but you could more than make it up by

but you could more than make it up by but you could more than make it up by adding affiliate right why would you do

adding affiliate right why would you do adding affiliate right why would you do it in every content site is doing this

it in every content site is doing this it in every content site is doing this they're all adding affiliate because

they're all adding affiliate because they're all adding affiliate because it's it's a no-brainer M before they

it's it's a no-brainer M before they it's it's a no-brainer M before they didn't have to and now everyone's

didn't have to and now everyone's didn't have to and now everyone's focusing on it and the rise of creators

focusing on it and the rise of creators focusing on it and the rise of creators has helped a lot too right because has helped a lot too right because has helped a lot too right because that's the creative model definitely

that's the creative model definitely that's the creative model definitely made it go go more mainstream and then

made it go go more mainstream and then made it go go more mainstream and then to your question about business to your question about business to your question about business intelligence yeah as this has gone more

intelligence yeah as this has gone more intelligence yeah as this has gone more mainstream and as more and more people mainstream and as more and more people mainstream and as more and more people are doing this now everyone wants to are doing this now everyone wants to are doing this now everyone wants to optimize it and you're sitting in the

optimize it and you're sitting in the optimize it and you're sitting in the perfect spot and I think we are as

perfect spot and I think we are as perfect spot and I think we are as well I'm John Wright and you're

well I'm John Wright and you're well I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate B I the business

listening to affiliate B I the business listening to affiliate B I the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by sta so welcome to the affiliate bi

sta so welcome to the affiliate bi sta so welcome to the affiliate bi podcast today we're chatting with David

podcast today we're chatting with David podcast today we're chatting with David Shapiro who's the CEO and co-founder of

Shapiro who's the CEO and co-founder of Shapiro who's the CEO and co-founder of affiliate.com which when I first heard

affiliate.com which when I first heard affiliate.com which when I first heard about the project I was like a mo to a

about the project I was like a mo to a about the project I was like a mo to a flame I had to know more David's an

flame I had to know more David's an flame I had to know more David's an investor and adviser to many businesses

investor and adviser to many businesses investor and adviser to many businesses that cover marketing so David welcome to

that cover marketing so David welcome to that cover marketing so David welcome to the show thank you thanks for having me

the show thank you thanks for having me the show thank you thanks for having me great to be here so first question right

great to be here so first question right great to be here so first question right off the bat I I'm sure when people hear

off the bat I I'm sure when people hear off the bat I I'm sure when people hear philly.com they got some ideas like what

philly.com they got some ideas like what philly.com they got some ideas like what is this so I want to pass it back to you

is this so I want to pass it back to you is this so I want to pass it back to you and tell us what the company does yeah

and tell us what the company does yeah and tell us what the company does yeah happy to and again thanks for having me happy to and again thanks for having me happy to and again thanks for having me here we're not an affiliate Network at

here we're not an affiliate Network at here we're not an affiliate Network at all although we work with every major

all although we work with every major all although we work with every major affiliate Network around the world we're

affiliate Network around the world we're affiliate Network around the world we're a B2B SAS data and Technology business

a B2B SAS data and Technology business a B2B SAS data and Technology business we have a massive database of over

we have a massive database of over we have a massive database of over billion well over a billion e-commerce

billion well over a billion e-commerce billion well over a billion e-commerce products from over 16,000 Merchants

products from over 16,000 Merchants products from over 16,000 Merchants around the world we're essentially

around the world we're essentially around the world we're essentially tracking everything that's for set on tracking everything that's for set on tracking everything that's for set on the internet and we take all that data

the internet and we take all that data the internet and we take all that data we normalize it and we make it available

we normalize it and we make it available we normalize it and we make it available to all kind Publishers in a variety of

to all kind Publishers in a variety of to all kind Publishers in a variety of ways so for example Publishers might use

ways so for example Publishers might use ways so for example Publishers might use our platform and apis to power content

our platform and apis to power content our platform and apis to power content sites shopping and coupon sites Chrome

sites shopping and coupon sites Chrome sites shopping and coupon sites Chrome extensions influencing platforms AI

extensions influencing platforms AI extensions influencing platforms AI offerings yeah and more anybody who

offerings yeah and more anybody who offerings yeah and more anybody who needs access and wants to make it easy

needs access and wants to make it easy needs access and wants to make it easy to source and find products merchants

to source and find products merchants to source and find products merchants and monetize them I'll give you an

and monetize them I'll give you an and monetize them I'll give you an example in our in our e-commerce search

example in our in our e-commerce search example in our in our e-commerce search engine you could search instantly every

engine you could search instantly every engine you could search instantly every Merchant in the world that's wearing Merchant in the world that's wearing Merchant in the world that's wearing that sweatshirt you're wearing John that sweatshirt you're wearing John that sweatshirt you're wearing John until and I can tell you in a second a

until and I can tell you in a second a until and I can tell you in a second a Split Second Split Second Split Second every Merchant who sells it what the every Merchant who sells it what the every Merchant who sells it what the price is when it goes on sale when it price is when it goes on sale when it price is when it goes on sale when it goes out of stock so you could imagine

goes out of stock so you could imagine goes out of stock so you could imagine if you're an influencer platform or

if you're an influencer platform or if you're an influencer platform or let's say you're a Creator and you want let's say you're a Creator and you want let's say you're a Creator and you want to promote that sweatshirt you got to

to promote that sweatshirt you got to to promote that sweatshirt you got to figure out you know what merchants sell

figure out you know what merchants sell figure out you know what merchants sell it what the price is what the commission

it what the price is what the commission it what the price is what the commission is offered by that then you got to grab

is offered by that then you got to grab is offered by that then you got to grab the links by the way this isn't a reason

the links by the way this isn't a reason the links by the way this isn't a reason why most Publishers will only promote

why most Publishers will only promote why most Publishers will only promote links to one Merchant for every product

links to one Merchant for every product links to one Merchant for every product because it's just it's so much work to

because it's just it's so much work to because it's just it's so much work to figure it out we automate all that so

figure it out we automate all that so figure it out we automate all that so then imagine the Creator wants want to

then imagine the Creator wants want to then imagine the Creator wants want to find that sweatshirt on our platform find that sweatshirt on our platform find that sweatshirt on our platform they can do it in a second it's actually

they can do it in a second it's actually they can do it in a second it's actually not our platform we power other not our platform we power other not our platform we power other platforms so if you're a Creator platforms so if you're a Creator platforms so if you're a Creator platform who wants to offer affiliate

platform who wants to offer affiliate platform who wants to offer affiliate Commerce to creators you want to make it

Commerce to creators you want to make it Commerce to creators you want to make it easy for them to find products to grab

easy for them to find products to grab easy for them to find products to grab links to them keep the links up to date

links to them keep the links up to date links to them keep the links up to date keep the prices up to date Etc so that

keep the prices up to date Etc so that keep the prices up to date Etc so that that's what we power for lots and lots

that's what we power for lots and lots that's what we power for lots and lots of Publishers of all kinds so you're

of Publishers of all kinds so you're of Publishers of all kinds so you're like one of those rare products or

like one of those rare products or like one of those rare products or services that kind of connects both

services that kind of connects both services that kind of connects both sides of the fence you got Publishers

sides of the fence you got Publishers sides of the fence you got Publishers and Affiliates on one side you've got

and Affiliates on one side you've got and Affiliates on one side you've got the operators the service providers

the operators the service providers the operators the service providers networks um there's not many that you

networks um there's not many that you networks um there's not many that you could actually say will actually connect

could actually say will actually connect could actually say will actually connect things yeah so we're we don't do any

things yeah so we're we don't do any things yeah so we're we don't do any scraping we work directly with all the

scraping we work directly with all the scraping we work directly with all the networks and like I said over 16,000

networks and like I said over 16,000 networks and like I said over 16,000 Merchants we drive them a ton of traffic

Merchants we drive them a ton of traffic Merchants we drive them a ton of traffic and we don't charge them we're customers

and we don't charge them we're customers and we don't charge them we're customers who pay us or our Publishers but we

who pay us or our Publishers but we who pay us or our Publishers but we drive Merchants a ton of traffic we make

drive Merchants a ton of traffic we make drive Merchants a ton of traffic we make it easy for merchants to get discovered

it easy for merchants to get discovered it easy for merchants to get discovered and imagine there's so many Merchants

and imagine there's so many Merchants and imagine there's so many Merchants it's like opening a store on the North

it's like opening a store on the North it's like opening a store on the North Pole and they're wondering what like Pole and they're wondering what like Pole and they're wondering what like where are all the people right if you're where are all the people right if you're where are all the people right if you're a smaller mer Merchant a longtail

a smaller mer Merchant a longtail a smaller mer Merchant a longtail merchant right how do you get found how

merchant right how do you get found how merchant right how do you get found how do you get Affiliates and creators to

do you get Affiliates and creators to do you get Affiliates and creators to sign up for your site to promote your

sign up for your site to promote your sign up for your site to promote your site we help with that we make put all

site we help with that we make put all site we help with that we make put all wors on the same footing we make it easy

wors on the same footing we make it easy wors on the same footing we make it easy for them to get found in fact sometimes

for them to get found in fact sometimes for them to get found in fact sometimes we could just automatic promote them so

we could just automatic promote them so we could just automatic promote them so for example if a product goes out of for example if a product goes out of for example if a product goes out of stock at Target and we see it's stock at Target and we see it's stock at Target and we see it's available at you know John sweatshirt

available at you know John sweatshirt available at you know John sweatshirt shop.com if the publisher wants we'll

shop.com if the publisher wants we'll shop.com if the publisher wants we'll just automatically switch that link for

just automatically switch that link for just automatically switch that link for them and promoe another Merchant so you

them and promoe another Merchant so you them and promoe another Merchant so you mentioned a couple different examples of

mentioned a couple different examples of mentioned a couple different examples of the types of compan companies that are the types of compan companies that are the types of compan companies that are using your service I think you said

using your service I think you said using your service I think you said there's Chrome plugins AI what were some

there's Chrome plugins AI what were some there's Chrome plugins AI what were some of the things that you didn't expect

of the things that you didn't expect of the things that you didn't expect that just came out of nowhere you're that just came out of nowhere you're that just came out of nowhere you're like I guess this is a good use case and

like I guess this is a good use case and like I guess this is a good use case and it was more like a pleasant surprise of

it was more like a pleasant surprise of it was more like a pleasant surprise of how useful and dynamic this is yeah it's

how useful and dynamic this is yeah it's how useful and dynamic this is yeah it's a great question I'm curious to hear

a great question I'm curious to hear a great question I'm curious to hear about how you deal with this in your about how you deal with this in your about how you deal with this in your business but the affiliate Commerce

business but the affiliate Commerce business but the affiliate Commerce ecosystem is definitely having its day

ecosystem is definitely having its day ecosystem is definitely having its day right you and I have been in this right you and I have been in this right you and I have been in this industry for a long time and for a long

industry for a long time and for a long industry for a long time and for a long time it was uh called the less highbrow

time it was uh called the less highbrow time it was uh called the less highbrow less wellth thought of industry within

less wellth thought of industry within less wellth thought of industry within the broader digital marketing industry

the broader digital marketing industry the broader digital marketing industry no longer right it's everyone wants to

no longer right it's everyone wants to no longer right it's everyone wants to talk about this now you see businesses

talk about this now you see businesses talk about this now you see businesses like mle just got sold for a huge sum

like mle just got sold for a huge sum like mle just got sold for a huge sum shop my just a couple days ago announced

shop my just a couple days ago announced shop my just a couple days ago announced a massive raise at a I think a year ago

a massive raise at a I think a year ago a massive raise at a I think a year ago they were valued at $80 million less

they were valued at $80 million less they were valued at $80 million less year last March they just did a raise

year last March they just did a raise year last March they just did a raise value of themselves at 400 million so

value of themselves at 400 million so value of themselves at 400 million so there's just a massive focus on all

there's just a massive focus on all there's just a massive focus on all things affiliate Commerce and we're

things affiliate Commerce and we're things affiliate Commerce and we're seeing that and because of that every

seeing that and because of that every seeing that and because of that every type of publisher broadly defined

type of publisher broadly defined type of publisher broadly defined everyone who has eyeballs they platform

everyone who has eyeballs they platform everyone who has eyeballs they platform creators websites shopping sites Chrome

creators websites shopping sites Chrome creators websites shopping sites Chrome extensions browsers every type of

extensions browsers every type of extensions browsers every type of publisher who has eyeballs of any kind

publisher who has eyeballs of any kind publisher who has eyeballs of any kind is trying to figure out how do they make is trying to figure out how do they make is trying to figure out how do they make money from money from money from affiliate I have a are you think that as

affiliate I have a are you think that as affiliate I have a are you think that as well in your business yeah it's like

well in your business yeah it's like well in your business yeah it's like even for what we do I'm just surprised

even for what we do I'm just surprised even for what we do I'm just surprised at how many rabbit holes we can go down

at how many rabbit holes we can go down at how many rabbit holes we can go down if anything I think our biggest problem

if anything I think our biggest problem if anything I think our biggest problem as a company is we have too many

as a company is we have too many as a company is we have too many different opportunities like we have

different opportunities like we have different opportunities like we have companies coming to us all the time companies coming to us all the time companies coming to us all the time going can you build this and the answer going can you build this and the answer going can you build this and the answer is yes but then it's we've got five

is yes but then it's we've got five is yes but then it's we've got five Super interesting projects that we can

Super interesting projects that we can Super interesting projects that we can pivot to and it's we have to decide or

pivot to and it's we have to decide or pivot to and it's we have to decide or Define what our mission and vision

Define what our mission and vision Define what our mission and vision statement is but uh just seeing how

statement is but uh just seeing how statement is but uh just seeing how Affiliates use the app and learning from

Affiliates use the app and learning from Affiliates use the app and learning from them I just feel like it's just the

them I just feel like it's just the them I just feel like it's just the early days like it's like we're on level

early days like it's like we're on level early days like it's like we're on level one of a 100 levels of data analysis of

one of a 100 levels of data analysis of one of a 100 levels of data analysis of just even focusing on only analysis yeah

just even focusing on only analysis yeah just even focusing on only analysis yeah I I totally agree with you we're I I totally agree with you we're I I totally agree with you we're publisher gnostics so we work with any

publisher gnostics so we work with any publisher gnostics so we work with any type of publisher but you're right any

type of publisher but you're right any type of publisher but you're right any sort of startup you got to focus really

sort of startup you got to focus really sort of startup you got to focus really focus on on what you want to deliver

focus on on what you want to deliver focus on on what you want to deliver we're like is said we're very focused on

we're like is said we're very focused on we're like is said we're very focused on on on making our platform agnostics to

on on making our platform agnostics to on on making our platform agnostics to support any any kind of culture so

support any any kind of culture so support any any kind of culture so Creator AI platforms are just are huge

Creator AI platforms are just are huge Creator AI platforms are just are huge right now right and it make perfect

right now right and it make perfect right now right and it make perfect sense right okay I got a question that

sense right okay I got a question that sense right okay I got a question that it's not scripted and it's just from

it's not scripted and it's just from it's not scripted and it's just from Thinking Out Loud from having this quick

Thinking Out Loud from having this quick Thinking Out Loud from having this quick chat on the on the online gambling side

chat on the on the online gambling side chat on the on the online gambling side they have these things on the operator

they have these things on the operator they have these things on the operator side called pams or I think they're

side called pams or I think they're side called pams or I think they're player account management and what I've

player account management and what I've player account management and what I've realized is that for affiliate marketers

realized is that for affiliate marketers realized is that for affiliate marketers that they don't really have these things that they don't really have these things that they don't really have these things on their side like you might have a CRM

on their side like you might have a CRM on their side like you might have a CRM you might have a newsletter but you

you might have a newsletter but you you might have a newsletter but you don't really have this login system and

don't really have this login system and don't really have this login system and I think the login systems that do exist

I think the login systems that do exist I think the login systems that do exist today are things like maybe a Chrome

today are things like maybe a Chrome today are things like maybe a Chrome extension maybe it's like an app so I

extension maybe it's like an app so I extension maybe it's like an app so I think in affiliate marketing we're think in affiliate marketing we're think in affiliate marketing we're starting to see more of these things

starting to see more of these things starting to see more of these things there do you think some of the tools

there do you think some of the tools there do you think some of the tools that you have could actually be like a a

that you have could actually be like a a that you have could actually be like a a weird hub for these player account

weird hub for these player account weird hub for these player account management it's a good question you're

management it's a good question you're management it's a good question you're talking I think you're talking about can

talking I think you're talking about can talking I think you're talking about can can you customize an experience all the

can you customize an experience all the can you customize an experience all the way down to the user level exactly and

way down to the user level exactly and way down to the user level exactly and you certainly can I I was speaking with

you certainly can I I was speaking with you certainly can I I was speaking with a a browser essentially a browser that

a a browser essentially a browser that a a browser essentially a browser that they manage homepages on browsers and

they manage homepages on browsers and they manage homepages on browsers and they want to create a custom experience

they want to create a custom experience they want to create a custom experience for each person so if you're interest if

for each person so if you're interest if for each person so if you're interest if you're a New York Jets fan you might

you're a New York Jets fan you might you're a New York Jets fan you might want to see just Goods it's the New York

want to see just Goods it's the New York want to see just Goods it's the New York Jets whereas if you're a hockey fan you

Jets whereas if you're a hockey fan you Jets whereas if you're a hockey fan you can see hockey stuff or a golfer or if

can see hockey stuff or a golfer or if can see hockey stuff or a golfer or if you like shoes right so the notion that

you like shoes right so the notion that you like shoes right so the notion that every person could easily customize the

every person could easily customize the every person could easily customize the shopping experience that they get right

shopping experience that they get right shopping experience that they get right maybe they want to see coupons or maybe they want to see coupons or maybe they want to see coupons or product on sale in a certain type of

product on sale in a certain type of product on sale in a certain type of product our platform does that easily

product our platform does that easily product our platform does that easily that's very routine for us but

that's very routine for us but that's very routine for us but absolutely uh the best companies are

absolutely uh the best companies are absolutely uh the best companies are definitely going to that level you see

definitely going to that level you see definitely going to that level you see even Creator platform that level where

even Creator platform that level where even Creator platform that level where they could really customize what they're

they could really customize what they're they could really customize what they're showing to each and every fan of of of a

showing to each and every fan of of of a showing to each and every fan of of of a Creator would you say that the data that

Creator would you say that the data that Creator would you say that the data that you have like on a scale of 1 to 10

you have like on a scale of 1 to 10 you have like on a scale of 1 to 10 would you say where are you in the

would you say where are you in the would you say where are you in the personalization not just on your company

personalization not just on your company personalization not just on your company but how you can use your data to help

but how you can use your data to help but how you can use your data to help other companies with personalization I I

other companies with personalization I I other companies with personalization I I think this is ear days but I want to

think this is ear days but I want to think this is ear days but I want to know what your take is yeah this is a

know what your take is yeah this is a know what your take is yeah this is a big growth there we're not a publisher

big growth there we're not a publisher big growth there we're not a publisher anyway so we power lots and lots of

anyway so we power lots and lots of anyway so we power lots and lots of other Publishers over 10,000 sites our

other Publishers over 10,000 sites our other Publishers over 10,000 sites our service but our job is make it as easy

service but our job is make it as easy service but our job is make it as easy as possible for them to take our apis

as possible for them to take our apis as possible for them to take our apis take our data and offer it spin it out

take our data and offer it spin it out take our data and offer it spin it out and offer to their users and we're

and offer to their users and we're and offer to their users and we're seeing people do all sorts of

seeing people do all sorts of seeing people do all sorts of personalization all the way down the

personalization all the way down the personalization all the way down the individual for individual for individual for sure are you running your own analytics

sure are you running your own analytics sure are you running your own analytics on the data sets you have like where

on the data sets you have like where on the data sets you have like where you're basically saying what is the you're basically saying what is the you're basically saying what is the growth of the inventory what what is

growth of the inventory what what is growth of the inventory what what is becoming more in demand what's what's

becoming more in demand what's what's becoming more in demand what's what's increasing what's shrinking I'm increasing what's shrinking I'm increasing what's shrinking I'm imagining with a large database of

imagining with a large database of imagining with a large database of inventory you could actually just run

inventory you could actually just run inventory you could actually just run python on this all day long yeah so it

python on this all day long yeah so it python on this all day long yeah so it goes to exactly what you said before

goes to exactly what you said before goes to exactly what you said before just choosing your battles where you

just choosing your battles where you just choosing your battles where you want to focus but we we're collecting a

want to focus but we we're collecting a want to focus but we we're collecting a massive amount of data on products well

massive amount of data on products well massive amount of data on products well avability on products and not just

avability on products and not just avability on products and not just products all the underlying data for

products all the underlying data for products all the underlying data for each and every product it's massive all

each and every product it's massive all each and every product it's massive all of which is updated every day on the

of which is updated every day on the of which is updated every day on the flip side to your point we're seeing

flip side to your point we're seeing flip side to your point we're seeing what product are popular what products

what product are popular what products what product are popular what products are trending what people are clicking on

are trending what people are clicking on are trending what people are clicking on there's a lot we plan to do with that in

there's a lot we plan to do with that in there's a lot we plan to do with that in the future we're not right now just

the future we're not right now just the future we're not right now just because there's so much demand for our

because there's so much demand for our because there's so much demand for our our aprs and we're focusing on that but

our aprs and we're focusing on that but our aprs and we're focusing on that but it's The Logical next step and it's what

it's The Logical next step and it's what it's The Logical next step and it's what customers are asking for right they want

customers are asking for right they want customers are asking for right they want to Once once they like if again if

to Once once they like if again if to Once once they like if again if you're a Creator platform imagine this

you're a Creator platform imagine this you're a Creator platform imagine this and you could tell your creators hey

and you could tell your creators hey and you could tell your creators hey here's trending products so we are doing

here's trending products so we are doing here's trending products so we are doing that for customers and let the kidos

that for customers and let the kidos that for customers and let the kidos promote it and that it would just drive

promote it and that it would just drive promote it and that it would just drive more Revenue drive more sales for them

more Revenue drive more sales for them more Revenue drive more sales for them yeah I I could just imagine from putting

yeah I I could just imagine from putting yeah I I could just imagine from putting my SEO hat on is you would have a field

my SEO hat on is you would have a field my SEO hat on is you would have a field day with this data because then you day with this data because then you day with this data because then you could publish like probably daily case

could publish like probably daily case could publish like probably daily case studies or just daily data sets where

studies or just daily data sets where studies or just daily data sets where media is always looking for Unique data

media is always looking for Unique data media is always looking for Unique data to to tell a story it's defin and it's

to to tell a story it's defin and it's to to tell a story it's defin and it's definitely daily because things change definitely daily because things change definitely daily because things change every day products come in and out that

every day products come in and out that every day products come in and out that as well don't you that scale I'm sure a

as well don't you that scale I'm sure a as well don't you that scale I'm sure a little bit what I find is just it's

little bit what I find is just it's little bit what I find is just it's really interesting seeing all the really interesting seeing all the really interesting seeing all the companies going yeah I can't find this

companies going yeah I can't find this companies going yeah I can't find this data so I'm just going to create a data so I'm just going to create a data so I'm just going to create a company and like literally build the

company and like literally build the company and like literally build the data sets or literally use other

data sets or literally use other data sets or literally use other platforms that have data and basically

platforms that have data and basically platforms that have data and basically refine it once more to basically create

refine it once more to basically create refine it once more to basically create that data set and get that story yeah

that data set and get that story yeah that data set and get that story yeah and and merch by the way want this data

and and merch by the way want this data and and merch by the way want this data as well uh we're focused on Publishers

as well uh we're focused on Publishers as well uh we're focused on Publishers at the moment but Merchants very much

at the moment but Merchants very much at the moment but Merchants very much want this data well yeah do you see with

want this data well yeah do you see with want this data well yeah do you see with a lot of the tools on the market that

a lot of the tools on the market that a lot of the tools on the market that things are becoming more accessible for

things are becoming more accessible for things are becoming more accessible for Affiliates where you don't need to have

Affiliates where you don't need to have Affiliates where you don't need to have 10 people like to be a big company you

10 people like to be a big company you 10 people like to be a big company you don't need losss of investment like you don't need losss of investment like you don't need losss of investment like you can actually jump in yeah that's a great

can actually jump in yeah that's a great can actually jump in yeah that's a great question question question what I see the best companies doing is

what I see the best companies doing is what I see the best companies doing is focusing on what they're good at let's focusing on what they're good at let's focusing on what they're good at let's say a lot of Chrome extension owners are

say a lot of Chrome extension owners are say a lot of Chrome extension owners are really expert at media buying right user

really expert at media buying right user really expert at media buying right user acquisition creators are really

acquisition creators are really acquisition creators are really excellent at creating content and con

excellent at creating content and con excellent at creating content and con Their audience none of these people want

Their audience none of these people want Their audience none of these people want to deal with all the backends of what

to deal with all the backends of what to deal with all the backends of what your platform offers right reporting

your platform offers right reporting your platform offers right reporting analytics or what our platform offers of

analytics or what our platform offers of analytics or what our platform offers of merchant product Discovery keeping links

merchant product Discovery keeping links merchant product Discovery keeping links working Etc so they're using companies

working Etc so they're using companies working Etc so they're using companies like us and that frees up their time so

like us and that frees up their time so like us and that frees up their time so you can do a lot with not a ton of

you can do a lot with not a ton of you can do a lot with not a ton of people right you don't need our system

people right you don't need our system people right you don't need our system automates it completely your offering I

automates it completely your offering I automates it completely your offering I know automates automates all the

know automates automates all the know automates automates all the analytics and Reporting

analytics and Reporting analytics and Reporting completely as much as we can it's a it's

completely as much as we can it's a it's completely as much as we can it's a it's not a fun job of what we do but I guess

not a fun job of what we do but I guess not a fun job of what we do but I guess it's we both have our own stories about

it's we both have our own stories about it's we both have our own stories about finding a gap in the market and going

finding a gap in the market and going finding a gap in the market and going okay it's on paper it didn't look like a

okay it's on paper it didn't look like a okay it's on paper it didn't look like a sexy uh road path but I want to throw

sexy uh road path but I want to throw sexy uh road path but I want to throw that question back to do you see a

that question back to do you see a that question back to do you see a stronger interest in the last five years

stronger interest in the last five years stronger interest in the last five years where investors are going I want the the

where investors are going I want the the where investors are going I want the the picks and shovels of the industry it's

picks and shovels of the industry it's picks and shovels of the industry it's not like I'm a publisher or big

not like I'm a publisher or big not like I'm a publisher or big publisher that's doing 50 to 100 million

publisher that's doing 50 to 100 million publisher that's doing 50 to 100 million per year it's these weird companies that

per year it's these weird companies that per year it's these weird companies that maybe aren't easy to explain what we do

maybe aren't easy to explain what we do maybe aren't easy to explain what we do but then they're like wait a minute but then they're like wait a minute but then they're like wait a minute there's value and power here yeah first

there's value and power here yeah first there's value and power here yeah first of all there's a massive long tail right

of all there's a massive long tail right of all there's a massive long tail right I think there's something like 800 I think there's something like 800 I think there's something like 800 million WordPress sites right every one

million WordPress sites right every one million WordPress sites right every one of them could use your service or or my

of them could use your service or or my of them could use your service or or my service and that's just websites right

service and that's just websites right service and that's just websites right there's so many different types of there's so many different types of there's so many different types of Publishers and like we talked about

Publishers and like we talked about Publishers and like we talked about before as affiliate Commerce has really

before as affiliate Commerce has really before as affiliate Commerce has really gone and everyone's focusing on it

gone and everyone's focusing on it gone and everyone's focusing on it everyone's trying to figure out how to

everyone's trying to figure out how to everyone's trying to figure out how to how to be most optimal how to drive

how to be most optimal how to drive how to be most optimal how to drive Revenue the best way they can Etc and

Revenue the best way they can Etc and Revenue the best way they can Etc and they're looking at services like yours

they're looking at services like yours they're looking at services like yours and mine for sure is that a coincidence

and mine for sure is that a coincidence and mine for sure is that a coincidence that I'm doing what I'm doing right it's

that I'm doing what I'm doing right it's that I'm doing what I'm doing right it's we see this happening we saw this

we see this happening we saw this we see this happening we saw this happening and this is why we're in this

happening and this is why we're in this happening and this is why we're in this business I imagine it's the same with

business I imagine it's the same with business I imagine it's the same with you that's why I appreciate being able

you that's why I appreciate being able you that's why I appreciate being able to have you on and just ask the

to have you on and just ask the to have you on and just ask the questions and go how do I get better at

questions and go how do I get better at questions and go how do I get better at trying to predict the future it's by

trying to predict the future it's by trying to predict the future it's by working with companies that indirectly

working with companies that indirectly working with companies that indirectly they're in front of that future but they're in front of that future but they're in front of that future but they're also uh creating it yeah the

they're also uh creating it yeah the they're also uh creating it yeah the last thing a Creator or a small website

last thing a Creator or a small website last thing a Creator or a small website owner even big website owners want to do

owner even big website owners want to do owner even big website owners want to do is deal with all this stuff that we're

is deal with all this stuff that we're is deal with all this stuff that we're talking right it's just it's not

talking right it's just it's not talking right it's just it's not therefore for nor should it be because

therefore for nor should it be because therefore for nor should it be because they would spend someone's gonna do it

they would spend someone's gonna do it they would spend someone's gonna do it themselves they would probably spend 10 themselves they would probably spend 10 themselves they would probably spend 10 times what it cost to license your times what it cost to license your times what it cost to license your service and it'd be a lot easier to work

service and it'd be a lot easier to work service and it'd be a lot easier to work with you same thing with us yeah I'm

with you same thing with us yeah I'm with you same thing with us yeah I'm sure you get this all the time it's oh sure you get this all the time it's oh sure you get this all the time it's oh we're going to build this inhouse and we're going to build this inhouse and we're going to build this inhouse and then a couple months later they're

then a couple months later they're then a couple months later they're actually I don't really want to do that

actually I don't really want to do that actually I don't really want to do that anymore like I said yeah the best

anymore like I said yeah the best anymore like I said yeah the best companies are not even trying because companies are not even trying because companies are not even trying because they're focusing on what they're good at they're focusing on what they're good at they're focusing on what they're good at and can you imagine a Creator trying to

and can you imagine a Creator trying to and can you imagine a Creator trying to deal or an influence influencer platform

deal or an influence influencer platform deal or an influence influencer platform wanted to deal with this they just they

wanted to deal with this they just they wanted to deal with this they just they don't want to and they shouldn't yeah

don't want to and they shouldn't yeah don't want to and they shouldn't yeah pivoting a little bit talking about

pivoting a little bit talking about pivoting a little bit talking about first-party data and it's something I've

first-party data and it's something I've first-party data and it's something I've been writing about recently I think

been writing about recently I think been writing about recently I think first-party data is becoming more first-party data is becoming more first-party data is becoming more important from a different context that

important from a different context that important from a different context that Google's been trashing affiliate sites

Google's been trashing affiliate sites Google's been trashing affiliate sites so this has been going on for the last

so this has been going on for the last so this has been going on for the last year and a half and I think think has

year and a half and I think think has year and a half and I think think has put more emphasis that people need to

put more emphasis that people need to put more emphasis that people need to find clever ways of owning their own

find clever ways of owning their own find clever ways of owning their own data so what's your take on not just

data so what's your take on not just data so what's your take on not just first party data but how this relates to

first party data but how this relates to first party data but how this relates to both being a publisher and then going

both being a publisher and then going both being a publisher and then going what other data in inventory can I have

what other data in inventory can I have what other data in inventory can I have yeah so this is a big question is a

yeah so this is a big question is a yeah so this is a big question is a great question look you're right that

great question look you're right that great question look you're right that that everyone every publ has known for

that everyone every publ has known for that everyone every publ has known for years not to be red just on Google but

years not to be red just on Google but years not to be red just on Google but it's easy to get addicted to it so most

it's easy to get addicted to it so most it's easy to get addicted to it so most Publishers were right most Publishers

Publishers were right most Publishers Publishers were right most Publishers were so not most so many publishers are

were so not most so many publishers are were so not most so many publishers are focused and and re we're totally relied

focused and and re we're totally relied focused and and re we're totally relied by SEO as that went completely not

by SEO as that went completely not by SEO as that went completely not completely way but in a huge way that completely way but in a huge way that completely way but in a huge way that went away in in the last year right I

went away in in the last year right I went away in in the last year right I I've talked to lots of sidu whose

I've talked to lots of sidu whose I've talked to lots of sidu whose traffic drop 70% 80% literally overnight

traffic drop 70% 80% literally overnight traffic drop 70% 80% literally overnight imagine waking up in the morning and 80%

imagine waking up in the morning and 80% imagine waking up in the morning and 80% of your business is gone but it's

of your business is gone but it's of your business is gone but it's because they were relying on SEO now the

because they were relying on SEO now the because they were relying on SEO now the Tropic didn't go away entirely it just

Tropic didn't go away entirely it just Tropic didn't go away entirely it just went away to those sites so obviously if

went away to those sites so obviously if went away to those sites so obviously if there's losers there's winners right so there's losers there's winners right so there's losers there's winners right so who are the winners in this we saw ugc

who are the winners in this we saw ugc who are the winners in this we saw ugc sites there huge winners red

sites there huge winners red sites there huge winners red right as an right as an right as an example creators AI offerings right I

example creators AI offerings right I example creators AI offerings right I just go to Google and do a search many

just go to Google and do a search many just go to Google and do a search many of your answer you'll get right in the of your answer you'll get right in the of your answer you'll get right in the AI offering at top so they're winners

AI offering at top so they're winners AI offering at top so they're winners right the content sites have to react to

right the content sites have to react to right the content sites have to react to this right and they're now saying how do

this right and they're now saying how do this right and they're now saying how do we diversify they've always known they

we diversify they've always known they we diversify they've always known they should do this but now they have to do

should do this but now they have to do should do this but now they have to do it so it's not even a choice and a lot

it so it's not even a choice and a lot it so it's not even a choice and a lot of people are doing a very good job of of people are doing a very good job of of people are doing a very good job of it people are driving traffic to their

it people are driving traffic to their it people are driving traffic to their sites from from YouTube from social

sites from from YouTube from social sites from from YouTube from social newsletters is was always big but it's

newsletters is was always big but it's newsletters is was always big but it's now much bigger things like that are

now much bigger things like that are now much bigger things like that are definitely taking a center stage yeah it

definitely taking a center stage yeah it definitely taking a center stage yeah it just reminds me because I had Noel

just reminds me because I had Noel just reminds me because I had Noel spagna from the mly Fool on recently and

spagna from the mly Fool on recently and spagna from the mly Fool on recently and of course what do they have they are an

of course what do they have they are an of course what do they have they are an affiliate program and a publisher but a

affiliate program and a publisher but a affiliate program and a publisher but a publisher that has subscriptions and I

publisher that has subscriptions and I publisher that has subscriptions and I just think about how many public

just think about how many public just think about how many public affiliate companies I've read where they

affiliate companies I've read where they affiliate companies I've read where they sold that arm of their business while

sold that arm of their business while sold that arm of their business while all this Google Mayhem is going on I'm

all this Google Mayhem is going on I'm all this Google Mayhem is going on I'm like that actually might have been the like that actually might have been the like that actually might have been the most valuable part because the most valuable part because the most valuable part because the subscription is even if it's small

subscription is even if it's small subscription is even if it's small Revenue you have first party data yeah

Revenue you have first party data yeah Revenue you have first party data yeah we one of the solutions that we offer is

we one of the solutions that we offer is we one of the solutions that we offer is a price watch solution where any

a price watch solution where any a price watch solution where any publisher could just add a capability

publisher could just add a capability publisher could just add a capability for users to get notified if product

for users to get notified if product for users to get notified if product goes on sale or the price drops or

goes on sale or the price drops or goes on sale or the price drops or whatever it's super useful one of the

whatever it's super useful one of the whatever it's super useful one of the things publes also love about it is it

things publes also love about it is it things publes also love about it is it requires the user to put it in the email

requires the user to put it in the email requires the user to put it in the email to get notified when the price drops

to get notified when the price drops to get notified when the price drops it's a great way to collect the email I

it's a great way to collect the email I it's a great way to collect the email I know many Publishers who don't rely on

know many Publishers who don't rely on know many Publishers who don't rely on SEO at all right Publishers who have

SEO at all right Publishers who have SEO at all right Publishers who have extraordinarily profit businesses and

extraordinarily profit businesses and extraordinarily profit businesses and it's entirely based on

it's entirely based on it's entirely based on social so there are ways to do it it's

social so there are ways to do it it's social so there are ways to do it it's just it's hard and it's very hard if you

just it's hard and it's very hard if you just it's hard and it's very hard if you grew up relying on on

grew up relying on on grew up relying on on SEO okay I got a a challenging question

SEO okay I got a a challenging question SEO okay I got a a challenging question and I'll see if I can word this properly

and I'll see if I can word this properly and I'll see if I can word this properly so what I've seen in the past like 10 15

so what I've seen in the past like 10 15 so what I've seen in the past like 10 15 years like Affiliates that would be

years like Affiliates that would be years like Affiliates that would be doing let's say Twitter X or Facebook or

doing let's say Twitter X or Facebook or doing let's say Twitter X or Facebook or Instagram they're basically putting

Instagram they're basically putting Instagram they're basically putting offers like just tracking links on on a

offers like just tracking links on on a offers like just tracking links on on a post but obviously it goes with the

post but obviously it goes with the post but obviously it goes with the saying there's a lot of problems there's

saying there's a lot of problems there's saying there's a lot of problems there's no Geo targeting that data can expire

no Geo targeting that data can expire no Geo targeting that data can expire it's very easy to have that data itself

it's very easy to have that data itself it's very easy to have that data itself becoming incompliant or incompliant in a

becoming incompliant or incompliant in a becoming incompliant or incompliant in a different AR would you say that the

different AR would you say that the different AR would you say that the inventory stuff that you're working on

inventory stuff that you're working on inventory stuff that you're working on might have a weird future connectivity

might have a weird future connectivity might have a weird future connectivity into social platforms where it's like

into social platforms where it's like into social platforms where it's like you've got these more native ads built

you've got these more native ads built you've got these more native ads built in do you think there's a future there

in do you think there's a future there in do you think there's a future there or is this coming yeah it's here now for

or is this coming yeah it's here now for or is this coming yeah it's here now for sure not so much at the social media

sure not so much at the social media sure not so much at the social media company level like Tik Tok or Instagram

company level like Tik Tok or Instagram company level like Tik Tok or Instagram but it's at the companies that are but it's at the companies that are but it's at the companies that are working with them so linkoln

working with them so linkoln working with them so linkoln is very popular now a lot of the

is very popular now a lot of the is very popular now a lot of the companies we're talking about Shai

companies we're talking about Shai companies we're talking about Shai ltk goes on and on are using are using

ltk goes on and on are using are using ltk goes on and on are using are using linen bio right because that's what Tik

linen bio right because that's what Tik linen bio right because that's what Tik Tok allows that's what Instagram allows

Tok allows that's what Instagram allows Tok allows that's what Instagram allows um but they're also incorporating all

um but they're also incorporating all um but they're also incorporating all these new technologies into these these new technologies into these these new technologies into these offerings to make them better you'll see

offerings to make them better you'll see offerings to make them better you'll see the some of the social media platforms the some of the social media platforms the some of the social media platforms try to do it directly uh themselves as

try to do it directly uh themselves as try to do it directly uh themselves as well but everyone is is all creators are

well but everyone is is all creators are well but everyone is is all creators are relying on these platforms right and how

relying on these platforms right and how relying on these platforms right and how do they monetize off of them they're do they monetize off of them they're do they monetize off of them they're selling directly on on them or they're

selling directly on on them or they're selling directly on on them or they're driving traffic off of them and Link and

driving traffic off of them and Link and driving traffic off of them and Link and bio is sort of obvious way to do that I

bio is sort of obvious way to do that I bio is sort of obvious way to do that I guess we're talking more about like Pro

guess we're talking more about like Pro guess we're talking more about like Pro programmatic advertising where it's like

programmatic advertising where it's like programmatic advertising where it's like how can you make this programmatic

how can you make this programmatic how can you make this programmatic automated at scale and then of course

automated at scale and then of course automated at scale and then of course there's got to be some personalization there's got to be some personalization there's got to be some personalization in there at some point yeah so most of

in there at some point yeah so most of in there at some point yeah so most of these customers of ours will use our

these customers of ours will use our these customers of ours will use our redirect link right so we could then

redirect link right so we could then redirect link right so we could then tailor the results for whatever the

tailor the results for whatever the tailor the results for whatever the publisher wants could be tailored to the

publisher wants could be tailored to the publisher wants could be tailored to the person's interest to go can be tailored

person's interest to go can be tailored person's interest to go can be tailored whatever they want but you need a way to

whatever they want but you need a way to whatever they want but you need a way to be able to identify the user what user

be able to identify the user what user be able to identify the user what user interested in and then Ser them up

interested in and then Ser them up interested in and then Ser them up relevant a relevant offer like you said

relevant a relevant offer like you said relevant a relevant offer like you said the old way of just throwing up so

the old way of just throwing up so the old way of just throwing up so everyone sees the same thing wherever

everyone sees the same thing wherever everyone sees the same thing wherever they are in the world it it doesn't work

they are in the world it it doesn't work they are in the world it it doesn't work a lot of Publishers I talk to

a lot of Publishers I talk to a lot of Publishers I talk to ignore different Goos they might say oh

ignore different Goos they might say oh ignore different Goos they might say oh 10% of our traffic comes from 10% of our traffic comes from 10% of our traffic comes from Scandinavia we're gonna just ignore that

Scandinavia we're gonna just ignore that Scandinavia we're gonna just ignore that it's not worth it but 10% of Revenue is

it's not worth it but 10% of Revenue is it's not worth it but 10% of Revenue is huge percentage of their

huge percentage of their huge percentage of their right especially it all drops to the

right especially it all drops to the right especially it all drops to the bottom line if you could figure it out

bottom line if you could figure it out bottom line if you could figure it out would you say that tracking links could

would you say that tracking links could would you say that tracking links could be one of the biggest pain points in

be one of the biggest pain points in be one of the biggest pain points in affiliate marketing and I'll give you

affiliate marketing and I'll give you affiliate marketing and I'll give you the the brutal example when I use atrs

the the brutal example when I use atrs the the brutal example when I use atrs and I look at who's linking to FTX using

and I look at who's linking to FTX using and I look at who's linking to FTX using an affiliate link and I can find you

an affiliate link and I can find you an affiliate link and I can find you probably about a couple hundred Pages

probably about a couple hundred Pages probably about a couple hundred Pages like it's been a couple years FTX has

like it's been a couple years FTX has like it's been a couple years FTX has been out of business but the internet is

been out of business but the internet is been out of business but the internet is filled with dead tracking links or ones

filled with dead tracking links or ones filled with dead tracking links or ones that expire or probably ones that are

that expire or probably ones that are that expire or probably ones that are actually just like their dead weight actually just like their dead weight actually just like their dead weight without people even monitoring what's

without people even monitoring what's without people even monitoring what's behind it do you see a future where

behind it do you see a future where behind it do you see a future where links are going to get smarter and

links are going to get smarter and links are going to get smarter and there's going to be better tools yeah so

there's going to be better tools yeah so there's going to be better tools yeah so for sure getting smarter but I I don't

for sure getting smarter but I I don't for sure getting smarter but I I don't it's a problem what you said there's a

it's a problem what you said there's a it's a problem what you said there's a lot of problems with the affiliate

lot of problems with the affiliate lot of problems with the affiliate marketing ecosystem a lot of things have

marketing ecosystem a lot of things have marketing ecosystem a lot of things have not evolved over the last 20 years say

not evolved over the last 20 years say not evolved over the last 20 years say we did an analysis of a site and 20% a

we did an analysis of a site and 20% a we did an analysis of a site and 20% a very popular well-known publisher on new

very popular well-known publisher on new very popular well-known publisher on new newssite and 20% of their links went to

newssite and 20% of their links went to newssite and 20% of their links went to dead pages so imagine if 20% of your

dead pages so imagine if 20% of your dead pages so imagine if 20% of your links and it's pretty much all of their

links and it's pretty much all of their links and it's pretty much all of their longtail content when it's content it's

longtail content when it's content it's longtail content when it's content it's reviewing products right you do a review

reviewing products right you do a review reviewing products right you do a review of the best sunscreens for the summer

of the best sunscreens for the summer of the best sunscreens for the summer and then six months later 20% of those

and then six months later 20% of those and then six months later 20% of those pages are dead that's a again it's a

pages are dead that's a again it's a pages are dead that's a again it's a huge Revenue hit but imagine the E that

huge Revenue hit but imagine the E that huge Revenue hit but imagine the E that hit because they would all if those L

hit because they would all if those L hit because they would all if those L work it would all drop to the bottom work it would all drop to the bottom work it would all drop to the bottom line it's probably 100% or more Revenue

line it's probably 100% or more Revenue line it's probably 100% or more Revenue even Improvement and that's just an

even Improvement and that's just an even Improvement and that's just an example Merchant and product Discovery

example Merchant and product Discovery example Merchant and product Discovery is another huge

is another huge is another huge issue it's an issue that we solve right

issue it's an issue that we solve right issue it's an issue that we solve right letting people find products that are

letting people find products that are letting people find products that are for sale letting showing multiple

for sale letting showing multiple for sale letting showing multiple merchants not everyone L to shop at the

merchants not everyone L to shop at the merchants not everyone L to shop at the same Merchant so the best companies are

same Merchant so the best companies are same Merchant so the best companies are now shown giving people choice Google

now shown giving people choice Google now shown giving people choice Google actually talk about SEO Google's

actually talk about SEO Google's actually talk about SEO Google's guidelines SEO guidelines recommend to

guidelines SEO guidelines recommend to guidelines SEO guidelines recommend to Publishers and give Publishers credit if

Publishers and give Publishers credit if Publishers and give Publishers credit if they show multiple Merchants who sell a

they show multiple Merchants who sell a they show multiple Merchants who sell a product because Google's view is that

product because Google's view is that product because Google's view is that you should get as a consumer Choice you should get as a consumer Choice you should get as a consumer Choice which is great so there's a lot of

which is great so there's a lot of which is great so there's a lot of reasons why you want to show multiple

reasons why you want to show multiple reasons why you want to show multiple Merchants to your Merchants to your Merchants to your users yeah it sounds like actually the

users yeah it sounds like actually the users yeah it sounds like actually the discovery and the knowledge base is

discovery and the knowledge base is discovery and the knowledge base is actually a we a major problem that most

actually a we a major problem that most actually a we a major problem that most people haven't been able to articulate

people haven't been able to articulate people haven't been able to articulate like we've experienced this on our side

like we've experienced this on our side like we've experienced this on our side where I have customers that use our app

where I have customers that use our app where I have customers that use our app and they're like what other brands could

and they're like what other brands could and they're like what other brands could I promote or recommend I know how to to

I promote or recommend I know how to to I promote or recommend I know how to to reverse engineer that but that that that

reverse engineer that but that that that reverse engineer that but that that that answer changes with time I can't just

answer changes with time I can't just answer changes with time I can't just give you the same answer in two months

give you the same answer in two months give you the same answer in two months from now yeah imagine even on the price

from now yeah imagine even on the price from now yeah imagine even on the price of something shopping extensions do a

of something shopping extensions do a of something shopping extensions do a good job of this if you're about to buy good job of this if you're about to buy good job of this if you're about to buy imagine you're about to buy something imagine you're about to buy something imagine you're about to buy something from Target and we could show it's $10

from Target and we could show it's $10 from Target and we could show it's $10 cheaper at Walmart or vice versa right

cheaper at Walmart or vice versa right cheaper at Walmart or vice versa right there's real value there right that that

there's real value there right that that there's real value there right that that and a lot of companies are not focusing

and a lot of companies are not focusing and a lot of companies are not focusing on this but it's moving in that on this but it's moving in that on this but it's moving in that direction because they should be and direction because they should be and direction because they should be and it's not hard to do anymore and would

it's not hard to do anymore and would it's not hard to do anymore and would you say that I feel like I'm asking an

you say that I feel like I'm asking an you say that I feel like I'm asking an obvious question from your point of view

obvious question from your point of view obvious question from your point of view but that with the whole ecosystem of

but that with the whole ecosystem of but that with the whole ecosystem of Publishers and networks that people are

Publishers and networks that people are Publishers and networks that people are going to want more done for you Services

going to want more done for you Services going to want more done for you Services no one's going to re reinvent your wheel

no one's going to re reinvent your wheel no one's going to re reinvent your wheel so they're going to use like these tools so they're going to use like these tools so they're going to use like these tools to go how do I make life easier for a

to go how do I make life easier for a to go how do I make life easier for a publisher like a quick example if you're

publisher like a quick example if you're publisher like a quick example if you're an influencer do you really want to be

an influencer do you really want to be an influencer do you really want to be dealing with multiple networks or

dealing with multiple networks or dealing with multiple networks or multiple programs or do you want

multiple programs or do you want multiple programs or do you want something yeah something yeah something yeah Consolidated yeah it it goes to your the

Consolidated yeah it it goes to your the Consolidated yeah it it goes to your the value of your business too making things

value of your business too making things value of your business too making things easier for for Publishers is huge tell

easier for for Publishers is huge tell easier for for Publishers is huge tell me if I'm right when I think about your

me if I'm right when I think about your me if I'm right when I think about your business I imagine there's may I could

business I imagine there's may I could business I imagine there's may I could be wrong tell me you'll tell me there's

be wrong tell me you'll tell me there's be wrong tell me you'll tell me there's they two broad subsets of customers who

they two broad subsets of customers who they two broad subsets of customers who might use you one is customers who who

might use you one is customers who who might use you one is customers who who you just want to make their life easier

you just want to make their life easier you just want to make their life easier and they want to make their life easier and they want to make their life easier and they want to make their life easier and they take the they use you for

and they take the they use you for and they take the they use you for reporting analytics understand picture

reporting analytics understand picture reporting analytics understand picture of their business Etc and that's very

of their business Etc and that's very of their business Etc and that's very valuable and that's great uh the second

valuable and that's great uh the second valuable and that's great uh the second set of customers is doing all that but

set of customers is doing all that but set of customers is doing all that but then they're also using the data they

then they're also using the data they then they're also using the data they get from you to drive their business

get from you to drive their business get from you to drive their business right to to drive Revenue maybe they're

right to to drive Revenue maybe they're right to to drive Revenue maybe they're using it to improve their media buying

using it to improve their media buying using it to improve their media buying for example right they see what's

for example right they see what's for example right they see what's working in real time they could they working in real time they could they working in real time they could they could improve their media buying that's

could improve their media buying that's could improve their media buying that's when you start adding tremendous value

when you start adding tremendous value when you start adding tremendous value and that's what we see customers or

and that's what we see customers or and that's what we see customers or Publishers are looking for right tools

Publishers are looking for right tools Publishers are looking for right tools like yours and ours that can help them

like yours and ours that can help them like yours and ours that can help them Drive their businesses yeah and just to

Drive their businesses yeah and just to Drive their businesses yeah and just to add to that what I've learned I think

add to that what I've learned I think add to that what I've learned I think this is the the luxury of us being in

this is the the luxury of us being in this is the the luxury of us being in the space we we are in because people

the space we we are in because people the space we we are in because people say you're not competing with me and say you're not competing with me and say you're not competing with me and you're a service provider so they start

you're a service provider so they start you're a service provider so they start opening up and sharing what works or

opening up and sharing what works or opening up and sharing what works or doesn't work or their strategies and I

doesn't work or their strategies and I doesn't work or their strategies and I just think it's infinite rabbit holes to

just think it's infinite rabbit holes to just think it's infinite rabbit holes to go how deep can you go on data like I

go how deep can you go on data like I go how deep can you go on data like I I've got one affiliate customer over

I've got one affiliate customer over I've got one affiliate customer over here in the corner that basically would here in the corner that basically would here in the corner that basically would say actually our sales are relevant in

say actually our sales are relevant in say actually our sales are relevant in the UK based on the weather you have

the UK based on the weather you have the UK based on the weather you have worse weather and it's like the sales go

worse weather and it's like the sales go worse weather and it's like the sales go up and that sounds obvious but you just

up and that sounds obvious but you just up and that sounds obvious but you just think does that make a difference of think does that make a difference of think does that make a difference of when you want to actually activate your

when you want to actually activate your when you want to actually activate your paid marketing campaigns and for some of

paid marketing campaigns and for some of paid marketing campaigns and for some of these people the answer is completely

these people the answer is completely these people the answer is completely yes yeah absolutely we see that on the

yes yeah absolutely we see that on the yes yeah absolutely we see that on the publishing side and also on the merchant

publishing side and also on the merchant publishing side and also on the merchant side right because merch might say oh

side right because merch might say oh side right because merch might say oh you're recommending our competitors but

you're recommending our competitors but you're recommending our competitors but we're actually driving traffic to them

we're actually driving traffic to them we're actually driving traffic to them so you see both ways it's the same thing

so you see both ways it's the same thing so you see both ways it's the same thing with what you talking about on the with what you talking about on the with what you talking about on the publisher side right we work with a lot

publisher side right we work with a lot publisher side right we work with a lot of influen and platforms right I want

of influen and platforms right I want of influen and platforms right I want them mod to succeed and it's great I

them mod to succeed and it's great I them mod to succeed and it's great I don't it's not like I favor one over the

don't it's not like I favor one over the don't it's not like I favor one over the other do you think we're in the era now

other do you think we're in the era now other do you think we're in the era now of big data in affiliate marketing are

of big data in affiliate marketing are of big data in affiliate marketing are we here or do we need a couple more we here or do we need a couple more we here or do we need a couple more years what do you think I I think it's a

years what do you think I I think it's a years what do you think I I think it's a bit of both I think we're early days I

bit of both I think we're early days I bit of both I think we're early days I know when trying to analyze things from

know when trying to analyze things from know when trying to analyze things from like a certain publisher side like with like a certain publisher side like with like a certain publisher side like with our customers going we don't see the

our customers going we don't see the our customers going we don't see the data of our users but imagine if we

data of our users but imagine if we data of our users but imagine if we could and get them to submit the data in

could and get them to submit the data in could and get them to submit the data in a centralized database and give that as

a centralized database and give that as a centralized database and give that as feedback what I do know about some

feedback what I do know about some feedback what I do know about some affiliate managers is they're always affiliate managers is they're always affiliate managers is they're always asking their Publishers going how am I

asking their Publishers going how am I asking their Publishers going how am I how's my program doing in relation to

how's my program doing in relation to how's my program doing in relation to our competitors and I think this data

our competitors and I think this data our competitors and I think this data has been around in other Industries

has been around in other Industries has been around in other Industries outside of affiliate marketing But the

outside of affiliate marketing But the outside of affiliate marketing But the irony is that affiliate marketing we

irony is that affiliate marketing we irony is that affiliate marketing we think is should be super Advanced but I

think is should be super Advanced but I think is should be super Advanced but I know the I gaming space it's early days

know the I gaming space it's early days know the I gaming space it's early days I think most people they they don't have

I think most people they they don't have I think most people they they don't have the answers that's what I think I think

the answers that's what I think I think the answers that's what I think I think it's coming and in ways it's already

it's coming and in ways it's already it's coming and in ways it's already here but it's definitely early right the

here but it's definitely early right the here but it's definitely early right the amount of data that we're harnessing

amount of data that we're harnessing amount of data that we're harnessing that we're now sharing with Publishers

that we're now sharing with Publishers that we're now sharing with Publishers and Merchants and and you're doing the

and Merchants and and you're doing the and Merchants and and you're doing the same is huge but it it takes time A lot

same is huge but it it takes time A lot same is huge but it it takes time A lot of of of merchants and Publishers I just have

merchants and Publishers I just have merchants and Publishers I just have been doing things certain ways for years

been doing things certain ways for years been doing things certain ways for years right years and years I'm still right years and years I'm still right years and years I'm still surprised for example when it's a little

surprised for example when it's a little surprised for example when it's a little bit off topic but when I see very big

bit off topic but when I see very big bit off topic but when I see very big Publishers very big creators some of the

Publishers very big creators some of the Publishers very big creators some of the most pular creators in the world apply

most pular creators in the world apply most pular creators in the world apply to Merchants and they get get rejected

to Merchants and they get get rejected to Merchants and they get get rejected or they get Auto rejected right there's

or they get Auto rejected right there's or they get Auto rejected right there's improvements that need to happen improvements that need to happen improvements that need to happen throughout the ecosystem and data Big

throughout the ecosystem and data Big throughout the ecosystem and data Big Data certainly one of them and but it's

Data certainly one of them and but it's Data certainly one of them and but it's coming you can see it and and I already

coming you can see it and and I already coming you can see it and and I already see a lot of companies using

see a lot of companies using see a lot of companies using it maybe I'll ask the generic AI

it maybe I'll ask the generic AI it maybe I'll ask the generic AI question but I think everyone's been

question but I think everyone's been question but I think everyone's been trying to rush into AI but would you say

trying to rush into AI but would you say trying to rush into AI but would you say from your point of view that you as much

from your point of view that you as much from your point of view that you as much as you probably have maybe an AI

as you probably have maybe an AI as you probably have maybe an AI strategy that because you're maybe a

strategy that because you're maybe a strategy that because you're maybe a heavier data company that you could heavier data company that you could heavier data company that you could actually just focus on being that and

actually just focus on being that and actually just focus on being that and people if they want to be Ai and process

people if they want to be Ai and process people if they want to be Ai and process data that can actually come to you

data that can actually come to you data that can actually come to you what's your take on it yeah so AI is

what's your take on it yeah so AI is what's your take on it yeah so AI is great for us because like I said we're

great for us because like I said we're great for us because like I said we're publisher gnostics so we'll be powering

publisher gnostics so we'll be powering publisher gnostics so we'll be powering lot of these companies but it's a big

lot of these companies but it's a big lot of these companies but it's a big threat it's a huge threat to a

threat it's a huge threat to a threat it's a huge threat to a traditional content right if again if

traditional content right if again if traditional content right if again if you're just look at the Google results

you're just look at the Google results you're just look at the Google results and the AI answers will get on on the C

and the AI answers will get on on the C and the AI answers will get on on the C page right you don't need to necessarily

page right you don't need to necessarily page right you don't need to necessarily go to content site anymore sites have to

go to content site anymore sites have to go to content site anymore sites have to figure out how they rest the traffic if

figure out how they rest the traffic if figure out how they rest the traffic if not they're in big trouble for sure but

not they're in big trouble for sure but not they're in big trouble for sure but like I said the traffic is not like I said the traffic is not like I said the traffic is not disappearing it's just going to other disappearing it's just going to other disappearing it's just going to other places so for us we're in a good

places so for us we're in a good places so for us we're in a good position but if you're a Content side

position but if you're a Content side position but if you're a Content side yeah you got to figure out how to yeah you got to figure out how to yeah you got to figure out how to diversify your traffic yeah I my quick

diversify your traffic yeah I my quick diversify your traffic yeah I my quick answer to that is either you need to be

answer to that is either you need to be answer to that is either you need to be a product or you need to be a data

a product or you need to be a data a product or you need to be a data company that has unique data sets or you

company that has unique data sets or you company that has unique data sets or you need to be media where you're just

need to be media where you're just need to be media where you're just capturing attention and whether it's

capturing attention and whether it's capturing attention and whether it's entertainment or infotainment I think

entertainment or infotainment I think entertainment or infotainment I think it's those three pillars are what

it's those three pillars are what it's those three pillars are what affiliate marketing already is right now

affiliate marketing already is right now affiliate marketing already is right now yeah so I agree with that but I'm not

yeah so I agree with that but I'm not yeah so I agree with that but I'm not negative on content sites like I said

negative on content sites like I said negative on content sites like I said there are hundreds of millions of

there are hundreds of millions of there are hundreds of millions of content sites that that all make a

content sites that that all make a content sites that that all make a living right people make a living on

living right people make a living on living right people make a living on these sites right and they're fine right

these sites right and they're fine right these sites right and they're fine right there's challenges of course but it's

there's challenges of course but it's there's challenges of course but it's not like they're going away they have to

not like they're going away they have to not like they're going away they have to figure out certain things like how do figure out certain things like how do figure out certain things like how do the rest for the traffic but it it it's

the rest for the traffic but it it it's the rest for the traffic but it it it's it's amazing to me and I'm always

it's amazing to me and I'm always it's amazing to me and I'm always reminded I know it's obvious but it's

reminded I know it's obvious but it's reminded I know it's obvious but it's amazing how big the world is every time

amazing how big the world is every time amazing how big the world is every time when I think I I see it all I'll see

when I think I I see it all I'll see when I think I I see it all I'll see another T of companies or several

another T of companies or several another T of companies or several Publishers that are massive and I'm like

Publishers that are massive and I'm like Publishers that are massive and I'm like how have I not heard of them they're how have I not heard of them they're how have I not heard of them they're huge right it's should it's a very big

huge right it's should it's a very big huge right it's should it's a very big world and content sites are have

world and content sites are have world and content sites are have challenges like we said but they're

challenges like we said but they're challenges like we said but they're doing fine like we're still in business

doing fine like we're still in business doing fine like we're still in business I I was talking to a big publisher a big

I I was talking to a big publisher a big I I was talking to a big publisher a big content site that's

content site that's content site that's forecasting 10% year-over-year declines

forecasting 10% year-over-year declines forecasting 10% year-over-year declines in Revenue in probity it's just what

in Revenue in probity it's just what in Revenue in probity it's just what they're expecting to happen but they're

they're expecting to happen but they're they're expecting to happen but they're also diversifying in other ways to grow

also diversifying in other ways to grow also diversifying in other ways to grow their businesses I think that's what

their businesses I think that's what their businesses I think that's what you'll see the smart comp sites doing

you'll see the smart comp sites doing you'll see the smart comp sites doing and what do you see of the future of and what do you see of the future of and what do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as it intersects

affiliate marketing as it intersects affiliate marketing as it intersects with business intelligence affiliate

with business intelligence affiliate with business intelligence affiliate Commerce is definitely having its moment

Commerce is definitely having its moment Commerce is definitely having its moment right after we said a long time of of

right after we said a long time of of right after we said a long time of of existing but not necessarily be

existing but not necessarily be existing but not necessarily be considered not necessarily getting the

considered not necessarily getting the considered not necessarily getting the best valuations in the marketplace

best valuations in the marketplace best valuations in the marketplace you're seeing companies in the space now

you're seeing companies in the space now you're seeing companies in the space now receive huge valuations huge multiples

receive huge valuations huge multiples receive huge valuations huge multiples and there's a good reason for it because and there's a good reason for it because and there's a good reason for it because it's a great way to diversify your

it's a great way to diversify your it's a great way to diversify your Revenue base just like we're talking Revenue base just like we're talking Revenue base just like we're talking about if you're forec in a 10% decline

about if you're forec in a 10% decline about if you're forec in a 10% decline in ad Revenue say on your site but you

in ad Revenue say on your site but you in ad Revenue say on your site but you could more than make it up by adding

could more than make it up by adding could more than make it up by adding affiliate right why would you do it and

affiliate right why would you do it and affiliate right why would you do it and every comp site is doing this they're

every comp site is doing this they're every comp site is doing this they're all adding affiliate because it's it's a

all adding affiliate because it's it's a all adding affiliate because it's it's a no-brainer made before they didn't have

no-brainer made before they didn't have no-brainer made before they didn't have to and now everyone's focusing on it and

to and now everyone's focusing on it and to and now everyone's focusing on it and the rise of creators has helped a lot the rise of creators has helped a lot the rise of creators has helped a lot too right because that's the creative too right because that's the creative too right because that's the creative model definitely made it go go more

model definitely made it go go more model definitely made it go go more mainstream and then to your question

mainstream and then to your question mainstream and then to your question about business intelligence yeah as this

about business intelligence yeah as this about business intelligence yeah as this has gone more mainstream and as more and has gone more mainstream and as more and has gone more mainstream and as more and more people are doing this now everyone more people are doing this now everyone more people are doing this now everyone wants to optim it and you're sitting in

wants to optim it and you're sitting in wants to optim it and you're sitting in the perfect spot CH and I think we are

the perfect spot CH and I think we are the perfect spot CH and I think we are as well yeah it's it's B Tob boring to

as well yeah it's it's B Tob boring to as well yeah it's it's B Tob boring to boring but some reason Bing uh became uh

boring but some reason Bing uh became uh boring but some reason Bing uh became uh cool again it it it definitely feels

cool again it it it definitely feels cool again it it it definitely feels like that in in at this in the affiliate

like that in in at this in the affiliate like that in in at this in the affiliate comp for sure yeah David thank you so

comp for sure yeah David thank you so comp for sure yeah David thank you so much for doing this I want to pass it much for doing this I want to pass it much for doing this I want to pass it back how can people get a hold of you

back how can people get a hold of you back how can people get a hold of you david. affiliate.com all right and I'll

david. affiliate.com all right and I'll david. affiliate.com all right and I'll include uh LinkedIn for good measure and

include uh LinkedIn for good measure and include uh LinkedIn for good measure and it goes with that saying we'll have it goes with that saying we'll have it goes with that saying we'll have affiliate.com in the the show notes

affiliate.com in the the show notes affiliate.com in the the show notes thanks a lot for doing this joh good

thanks a lot for doing this joh good thanks a lot for doing this joh good seeing you go take

seeing you go take seeing you go take care thank you for tuning in to the

care thank you for tuning in to the care thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to

this time to ask for a small favor to this time to ask for a small favor to leave a raing and review wherever you

leave a raing and review wherever you leave a raing and review wherever you listen to your podcast that helps us

listen to your podcast that helps us listen to your podcast that helps us expand our reach to rank higher in

expand our reach to rank higher in expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more

podcast directories and reach more podcast directories and reach more listeners