The Bezos Letters with Steve Anderson

and I would say one of the things that and I would say one of the things that it intrigues me is Amazon doesn't really

it intrigues me is Amazon doesn't really it intrigues me is Amazon doesn't really have a research and development

have a research and development have a research and development department their culture is built around

department their culture is built around department their culture is built around every employee should be looking at

every employee should be looking at every employee should be looking at their job and seeing how they could do their job and seeing how they could do their job and seeing how they could do it better again one of my principles is

it better again one of my principles is it better again one of my principles is make complexity simple and so what steps

make complexity simple and so what steps make complexity simple and so what steps can be removed from even the smallest

can be removed from even the smallest can be removed from even the smallest process and and that becomes every

process and and that becomes every process and and that becomes every employee then becomes your research and

employee then becomes your research and employee then becomes your research and development department and part of

development department and part of development department and part of what's interesting is that's one of the

what's interesting is that's one of the what's interesting is that's one of the keys for promotion at Amazon coming up

keys for promotion at Amazon coming up keys for promotion at Amazon coming up with a better way pitching it getting

with a better way pitching it getting with a better way pitching it getting Buy in and then often the person who

Buy in and then often the person who Buy in and then often the person who comes up with the idea actually becomes

comes up with the idea actually becomes comes up with the idea actually becomes the Project Lead for whatever that is

the Project Lead for whatever that is the Project Lead for whatever that is and so kind of internal development and

and so kind of internal development and and so kind of internal development and it and culture of being rewarded for

it and culture of being rewarded for it and culture of being rewarded for coming up with good ideas

coming up with good ideas coming up with good ideas I'm John Wright and you're listening to

I'm John Wright and you're listening to I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence

affiliate bi the business intelligence affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought

and affiliate marketing podcast brought and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by to you by to you by stap welcome to the FBI podcast today

stap welcome to the FBI podcast today stap welcome to the FBI podcast today we're chatting with Steve Anderson who

we're chatting with Steve Anderson who we're chatting with Steve Anderson who is the author of the basos letters and

is the author of the basos letters and is the author of the basos letters and he's also the co-founder of catalysts uh

he's also the co-founder of catalysts uh he's also the co-founder of catalysts uh Steve is a true business analyst

Steve is a true business analyst Steve is a true business analyst focusing on the five balance of growth

focusing on the five balance of growth focusing on the five balance of growth and risk Steve welcome to the show John

and risk Steve welcome to the show John and risk Steve welcome to the show John thank you so much for having me I really

thank you so much for having me I really thank you so much for having me I really appreciate being on the show I I haven't

appreciate being on the show I I haven't appreciate being on the show I I haven't read your book yet but I've seen it

read your book yet but I've seen it read your book yet but I've seen it before so I'm actually excited to dig

before so I'm actually excited to dig before so I'm actually excited to dig into it I want to ask your story about

into it I want to ask your story about into it I want to ask your story about how you got the idea to start the book

how you got the idea to start the book how you got the idea to start the book besides the obvious wites of course you

besides the obvious wites of course you besides the obvious wites of course you naturally have dug deep into Jeff

naturally have dug deep into Jeff naturally have dug deep into Jeff Basil's letter so I want you to share

Basil's letter so I want you to share Basil's letter so I want you to share your story well there is a story behind

your story well there is a story behind your story well there is a story behind how kind of discovered them and did the

how kind of discovered them and did the how kind of discovered them and did the Deep dive into them and it really comes

Deep dive into them and it really comes Deep dive into them and it really comes out of my work in the insurance industry

out of my work in the insurance industry out of my work in the insurance industry which is what my career has primarily

which is what my career has primarily which is what my career has primarily been and the last probably 35 years

been and the last probably 35 years been and the last probably 35 years focusing on technology for Independent

focusing on technology for Independent focusing on technology for Independent Insurance Agents and we all know that

Insurance Agents and we all know that Insurance Agents and we all know that technology continues to develop and hard

technology continues to develop and hard technology continues to develop and hard as it is to say or even think faster

as it is to say or even think faster as it is to say or even think faster than ever right I mean with even the

than ever right I mean with even the than ever right I mean with even the last months and

last months and last months and so given that background I started

so given that background I started so given that background I started asking the question is the biggest Risk

asking the question is the biggest Risk asking the question is the biggest Risk insurance agents face actually not

insurance agents face actually not insurance agents face actually not taking enough

taking enough taking enough risk and and that was sort of a core

risk and and that was sort of a core risk and and that was sort of a core idea that I kept kind of Marin in and

idea that I kept kind of Marin in and idea that I kept kind of Marin in and started looking at companies that uh had

started looking at companies that uh had started looking at companies that uh had once been very successful and literally

once been very successful and literally once been very successful and literally are gone and companies that have been

are gone and companies that have been are gone and companies that have been successful and continue to be successful

successful and continue to be successful successful and continue to be successful and try to begin understanding what's

and try to begin understanding what's and try to begin understanding what's the difference you know what makes one

the difference you know what makes one the difference you know what makes one company longer term successful and one

company longer term successful and one company longer term successful and one company literally slide out into

company literally slide out into company literally slide out into Oblivion and again the names we sort of

Oblivion and again the names we sort of Oblivion and again the names we sort of know that's where I came across Amazon

know that's where I came across Amazon know that's where I came across Amazon and I kind of say now of course but I I

and I kind of say now of course but I I and I kind of say now of course but I I think at the time this was probably five

think at the time this was probably five think at the time this was probably five years ago maybe a little more you know

years ago maybe a little more you know years ago maybe a little more you know at the time I it was obvious Amazon was

at the time I it was obvious Amazon was at the time I it was obvious Amazon was successful but not as obvious as to why

successful but not as obvious as to why successful but not as obvious as to why and so I came across in my research the

and so I came across in my research the and so I came across in my research the letters to shareholders that Jeff bases

letters to shareholders that Jeff bases letters to shareholders that Jeff bases wrote first letter was 1997 they that's

wrote first letter was 1997 they that's wrote first letter was 1997 they that's the year they went public and the last

the year they went public and the last the year they went public and the last letter um that he wrote was 2020 when he

letter um that he wrote was 2020 when he letter um that he wrote was 2020 when he stepped aside as CEO and went into

stepped aside as CEO and went into stepped aside as CEO and went into executive chairman the book goes through

executive chairman the book goes through executive chairman the book goes through the 2018 letter because that was the

the 2018 letter because that was the the 2018 letter because that was the most current letter when the book was

most current letter when the book was most current letter when the book was published um and what I realized is when

published um and what I realized is when published um and what I realized is when I sat down and read the letters in order

I sat down and read the letters in order I sat down and read the letters in order as a narrative almost 50,000 words a

as a narrative almost 50,000 words a as a narrative almost 50,000 words a book I realized there were threads

book I realized there were threads book I realized there were threads through the letters um and most

through the letters um and most through the letters um and most shareholder letters are boring and tout

shareholder letters are boring and tout shareholder letters are boring and tout the company right or the CEO how great

the company right or the CEO how great the company right or the CEO how great they are and blah blah blah BAS did some

they are and blah blah blah BAS did some they are and blah blah blah BAS did some of that but not a lot he did a lot more

of that but not a lot he did a lot more of that but not a lot he did a lot more of how he did it what were the things

of how he did it what were the things of how he did it what were the things they put in place what were the problems

they put in place what were the problems they put in place what were the problems they encountered and how did they solve

they encountered and how did they solve they encountered and how did they solve those problems and you know I I do think

those problems and you know I I do think those problems and you know I I do think Bezos is well go down in history as as

Bezos is well go down in history as as Bezos is well go down in history as as one of the certainly one of the most

one of the certainly one of the most one of the certainly one of the most successful CEOs and taking a company

successful CEOs and taking a company successful CEOs and taking a company from literally who knew you could buy

from literally who knew you could buy from literally who knew you could buy books or even wanted to online to the

books or even wanted to online to the books or even wanted to online to the what it is today so that's that's kind

what it is today so that's that's kind what it is today so that's that's kind of where it came from and I I will tell

of where it came from and I I will tell of where it came from and I I will tell you the book IDE did didn't come to

you the book IDE did didn't come to you the book IDE did didn't come to until a little bit later um I was

until a little bit later um I was until a little bit later um I was intrigued with the letters I was intrigued with the letters I was intrigued with the letters I was intrigued with his thoughts and I

intrigued with his thoughts and I intrigued with his thoughts and I thought okay this is really good thought okay this is really good thought okay this is really good information I should put together a

information I should put together a information I should put together a legion you know PDF giveaway give me

legion you know PDF giveaway give me legion you know PDF giveaway give me your address you know typical marketing

your address you know typical marketing your address you know typical marketing stuff and uh fortunately I showed it to

stuff and uh fortunately I showed it to stuff and uh fortunately I showed it to my wife who's in the book business and

my wife who's in the book business and my wife who's in the book business and and she said oh no no no this is not a

and she said oh no no no this is not a and she said oh no no no this is not a lead gy this is a book and I kind of

lead gy this is a book and I kind of lead gy this is a book and I kind of pretty much went oh right as a book

pretty much went oh right as a book pretty much went oh right as a book is a whole different animal and I had

is a whole different animal and I had is a whole different animal and I had been writing my entire career articles

been writing my entire career articles been writing my entire career articles and WR all kinds of different

and WR all kinds of different and WR all kinds of different stuff but a 1500w article and a what

stuff but a 1500w article and a what stuff but a 1500w article and a what ended up being a 65,000 word book are

ended up being a 65,000 word book are ended up being a 65,000 word book are two entirely different things and so um

two entirely different things and so um two entirely different things and so um fortunately it was you know published

fortunately it was you know published fortunately it was you know published and up in Wall Street Journal USA Today

and up in Wall Street Journal USA Today and up in Wall Street Journal USA Today bestseller list and maybe even more

bestseller list and maybe even more bestseller list and maybe even more surprising to me it's been translated

surprising to me it's been translated surprising to me it's been translated into 20

into 20 into 20 languages yeah that's phenomenal it's

languages yeah that's phenomenal it's languages yeah that's phenomenal it's I've actually read a few of the letters

I've actually read a few of the letters I've actually read a few of the letters myself I think I've seen some articles

myself I think I've seen some articles myself I think I've seen some articles that probably talked about your book and that probably talked about your book and that probably talked about your book and then they've actually dug into it and

then they've actually dug into it and then they've actually dug into it and for me I I felt it was maybe too high

for me I I felt it was maybe too high for me I I felt it was maybe too high level like maybe I didn't dig deep

level like maybe I didn't dig deep level like maybe I didn't dig deep enough in there but what would you say

enough in there but what would you say enough in there but what would you say are some of the patterns of success for

are some of the patterns of success for are some of the patterns of success for any company I mean not everyone could be

any company I mean not everyone could be any company I mean not everyone could be Jeff Bezos and not everyone could be

Jeff Bezos and not everyone could be Jeff Bezos and not everyone could be Amazon but what are some of the things

Amazon but what are some of the things Amazon but what are some of the things that when you start studying good and

that when you start studying good and that when you start studying good and bad companies like are there signatures

bad companies like are there signatures bad companies like are there signatures on the people side as well as strategy

on the people side as well as strategy on the people side as well as strategy well I would say and again so you know

well I would say and again so you know well I would say and again so you know the full title is the Bezos letters 14

the full title is the Bezos letters 14 the full title is the Bezos letters 14 principles to grow your business like

principles to grow your business like principles to grow your business like Amazon so there are 14 principles and

Amazon so there are 14 principles and Amazon so there are 14 principles and there's a whole story behind that that

there's a whole story behind that that there's a whole story behind that that you know so there are that's a lot I'll

you know so there are that's a lot I'll you know so there are that's a lot I'll just say that but I do think there are

just say that but I do think there are just say that but I do think there are some kind of key p

some kind of key p some kind of key p principles that apply to pretty much any

principles that apply to pretty much any principles that apply to pretty much any type of organization and over the last

type of organization and over the last type of organization and over the last few years I've heard from a lot of

few years I've heard from a lot of few years I've heard from a lot of different ones who you know CEOs

different ones who you know CEOs different ones who you know CEOs nonprofits I mean all kinds of different

nonprofits I mean all kinds of different nonprofits I mean all kinds of different types of business and I always like to

types of business and I always like to types of business and I always like to say you know especially if your audience

say you know especially if your audience say you know especially if your audience is a small business owner whatever that

is a small business owner whatever that is a small business owner whatever that might mean remember Bezos started as a

might mean remember Bezos started as a might mean remember Bezos started as a guy in a garage putting books and

guy in a garage putting books and guy in a garage putting books and packages and driving them to the post

packages and driving them to the post packages and driving them to the post office now obviously you scaled and it

office now obviously you scaled and it office now obviously you scaled and it took what 26 years to be where they are

took what 26 years to be where they are took what 26 years to be where they are today and you may not even want to grow

today and you may not even want to grow today and you may not even want to grow like that but there's still things they

like that but there's still things they like that but there's still things they did that set up that success again for

did that set up that success again for did that set up that success again for long term and so I I the first principle

long term and so I I the first principle long term and so I I the first principle um is what I call encourage Successful

um is what I call encourage Successful um is what I call encourage Successful Failure and one of the key threads in

Failure and one of the key threads in Failure and one of the key threads in the letters was this idea of failure

the letters was this idea of failure the letters was this idea of failure you're being a good teacher and

you're being a good teacher and you're being a good teacher and Successful Failure is not a term you

Successful Failure is not a term you Successful Failure is not a term you hear very often how can a failure be

hear very often how can a failure be hear very often how can a failure be successful well it can be because what

successful well it can be because what successful well it can be because what do you learn from the failure and so

do you learn from the failure and so do you learn from the failure and so bezos's mindset is we have to

bezos's mindset is we have to bezos's mindset is we have to experiment if you do an

experiment if you do an experiment if you do an experiment and you don't fail it's not

experiment and you don't fail it's not experiment and you don't fail it's not an experiment so you have to be willing

an experiment so you have to be willing an experiment so you have to be willing to fail if you're going to do to fail if you're going to do to fail if you're going to do experiments and what he calls you know

experiments and what he calls you know experiments and what he calls you know what his phrase is you experiment and

what his phrase is you experiment and what his phrase is you experiment and invent on behalf of the customer and in

invent on behalf of the customer and in invent on behalf of the customer and in order to do that you've got to iterate

order to do that you've got to iterate order to do that you've got to iterate change fail learn that whole process and

change fail learn that whole process and change fail learn that whole process and again I think that's something

again I think that's something again I think that's something that is good to keep in mind and I also

that is good to keep in mind and I also that is good to keep in mind and I also want to say you know an objection I hear

want to say you know an objection I hear want to say you know an objection I hear often is well look at Amazon now they

often is well look at Amazon now they often is well look at Amazon now they can afford to spend you know millions of

can afford to spend you know millions of can afford to spend you know millions of dollars and fail they couldn't when they

dollars and fail they couldn't when they dollars and fail they couldn't when they were small just like any other small

were small just like any other small were small just like any other small business but they still had that mindset

business but they still had that mindset business but they still had that mindset of we've got to experiment to see what's

of we've got to experiment to see what's of we've got to experiment to see what's going to work and what's not going to going to work and what's not going to going to work and what's not going to work if it doesn't work we get rid of it

work if it doesn't work we get rid of it work if it doesn't work we get rid of it and so when people talk about Amazon

and so when people talk about Amazon and so when people talk about Amazon today and like they're shutting this

today and like they're shutting this today and like they're shutting this down or that down that's part of the

down or that down that's part of the down or that down that's part of the experiment it didn't produce the results

experiment it didn't produce the results experiment it didn't produce the results they wanted and so they're willing to

they wanted and so they're willing to they wanted and so they're willing to cut it and then learn from it and move

cut it and then learn from it and move cut it and then learn from it and move on to something else and a lot of times

on to something else and a lot of times on to something else and a lot of times things that are very successful today at

things that are very successful today at things that are very successful today at Amazon that we all know were failed

Amazon that we all know were failed Amazon that we all know were failed experiments until they succeeded Prime

experiments until they succeeded Prime experiments until they succeeded Prime is a great example I mean shipping right

is a great example I mean shipping right is a great example I mean shipping right so they had all kinds of iterations of

so they had all kinds of iterations of so they had all kinds of iterations of shipping and you know if you buy $25 you

shipping and you know if you buy $25 you shipping and you know if you buy $25 you get free shipping if you you know they

get free shipping if you you know they get free shipping if you you know they they went through various iterations

they went through various iterations they went through various iterations before they got to what we now know as

before they got to what we now know as before they got to what we now know as Prime today one day one hour shipping

Prime today one day one hour shipping Prime today one day one hour shipping depending on on where you are so I

depending on on where you are so I depending on on where you are so I that's one that just sticks out for me

that's one that just sticks out for me that's one that just sticks out for me because especially coming from the

because especially coming from the because especially coming from the insurance insurance insurance industry it's very counterintuitive

industry it's very counterintuitive industry it's very counterintuitive because everything about insurance is

because everything about insurance is because everything about insurance is mitigating risk reducing risk

mitigating risk reducing risk mitigating risk reducing risk transferring risk to an insurance policy

transferring risk to an insurance policy transferring risk to an insurance policy it's not a risk mindset and I think that

it's not a risk mindset and I think that it's not a risk mindset and I think that especially back to what I said earlier

especially back to what I said earlier especially back to what I said earlier when technology is changing so fast you

when technology is changing so fast you when technology is changing so fast you don't have time to sit back and try and

don't have time to sit back and try and don't have time to sit back and try and wait and see

wait and see wait and see I I guess I'm going to summarize this

I I guess I'm going to summarize this I I guess I'm going to summarize this from my point of view of being a SAS

from my point of view of being a SAS from my point of view of being a SAS company is kind of like a a mixture of

company is kind of like a a mixture of company is kind of like a a mixture of doing things whether it's failing and

doing things whether it's failing and doing things whether it's failing and it's kind of like if you're spending too

it's kind of like if you're spending too it's kind of like if you're spending too much time spinning your wheels I guess much time spinning your wheels I guess much time spinning your wheels I guess this is the whole analogy I mean it's

this is the whole analogy I mean it's this is the whole analogy I mean it's easy for someone like you to look at

easy for someone like you to look at easy for someone like you to look at someone and go you're clearly spinning someone and go you're clearly spinning someone and go you're clearly spinning your wheels but I think if you're not

your wheels but I think if you're not your wheels but I think if you're not trying any of these experiments it's

trying any of these experiments it's trying any of these experiments it's like nothing's really getting done and

like nothing's really getting done and like nothing's really getting done and you don't have this feedback loop right

you don't have this feedback loop right you don't have this feedback loop right exactly and and one of the comments I

exactly and and one of the comments I exactly and and one of the comments I make in the book is that I don't believe

make in the book is that I don't believe make in the book is that I don't believe employees are for are are afraid of

employees are for are are afraid of employees are for are are afraid of failure but they are afraid of the

failure but they are afraid of the failure but they are afraid of the consequences of failure so that's part

consequences of failure so that's part consequences of failure so that's part of the culture built in the organization

of the culture built in the organization of the culture built in the organization is and again this is not stupid stuff I

is and again this is not stupid stuff I is and again this is not stupid stuff I mean this is not who cares let's just

mean this is not who cares let's just mean this is not who cares let's just see what happens this is intentional

see what happens this is intentional see what happens this is intentional strategic wellth thought

strategic wellth thought strategic wellth thought out and it's still going to not work

out and it's still going to not work out and it's still going to not work sometimes maybe more times than you

sometimes maybe more times than you sometimes maybe more times than you want and then I'm going to Pivot to

want and then I'm going to Pivot to want and then I'm going to Pivot to because I mean we're talking about because I mean we're talking about because I mean we're talking about investor letters so we have investors an

investor letters so we have investors an investor letters so we have investors an Ness company and these ones are private

Ness company and these ones are private Ness company and these ones are private so they're probably never going to be so they're probably never going to be so they're probably never going to be public but what do you think are things

public but what do you think are things public but what do you think are things that investors should include or not

that investors should include or not that investors should include or not investors sorry startups should include

investors sorry startups should include investors sorry startups should include for letters for their

for letters for their for letters for their investors well I think yeah certainly

investors well I think yeah certainly investors well I think yeah certainly you need the financials I mean that's

you need the financials I mean that's you need the financials I mean that's kind of a given I guess I would say and

kind of a given I guess I would say and kind of a given I guess I would say and that's my comment earlier

that's my comment earlier that's my comment earlier most public CEO letters are

most public CEO letters are most public CEO letters are that and again I think what made Bezos

that and again I think what made Bezos that and again I think what made Bezos set a couple things I think made him

set a couple things I think made him set a couple things I think made him different um and I'm thinking back to

different um and I'm thinking back to different um and I'm thinking back to the very first 1997 letter and again I

the very first 1997 letter and again I the very first 1997 letter and again I think this applies whether you're think this applies whether you're think this applies whether you're private and it's all internal or whether

private and it's all internal or whether private and it's all internal or whether you're public and it's required um as

you're public and it's required um as you're public and it's required um as part of SEC filings Etc I mean he laid

part of SEC filings Etc I mean he laid part of SEC filings Etc I mean he laid out in that very first letter very

out in that very first letter very out in that very first letter very clearly his vision for Amazon and there

clearly his vision for Amazon and there clearly his vision for Amazon and there were several sections in that letter one

were several sections in that letter one were several sections in that letter one was we will f focus on the customer we

was we will f focus on the customer we was we will f focus on the customer we will be obsessed with the customer and

will be obsessed with the customer and will be obsessed with the customer and our decisions will be um made in light

our decisions will be um made in light our decisions will be um made in light of that Obsession so that actually is

of that Obsession so that actually is of that Obsession so that actually is another principle obsess over customers

another principle obsess over customers another principle obsess over customers um the other thing he said that is very

um the other thing he said that is very um the other thing he said that is very counterintuitive is to in their

counterintuitive is to in their counterintuitive is to in their investors is if this if that's how do I

investors is if this if that's how do I investors is if this if that's how do I say this give me a minute if that

say this give me a minute if that say this give me a minute if that doesn't fit your investment mindset then

doesn't fit your investment mindset then doesn't fit your investment mindset then you probably shouldn't invest in Amazon

you probably shouldn't invest in Amazon you probably shouldn't invest in Amazon again hter intuitive what what do you

again hter intuitive what what do you again hter intuitive what what do you mean what get you know but being very

mean what get you know but being very mean what get you know but being very clear on the vision and and and again

clear on the vision and and and again clear on the vision and and and again Amazon lost money for probably the first

Amazon lost money for probably the first Amazon lost money for probably the first 10 15 years and lots of press about that

10 15 years and lots of press about that 10 15 years and lots of press about that right amazon.com and etc etc but the

right amazon.com and etc etc but the right amazon.com and etc etc but the third third area that he emphasized was

third third area that he emphasized was third third area that he emphasized was a long-term

a long-term a long-term Vision meaning we will make decisions

Vision meaning we will make decisions Vision meaning we will make decisions based on based on based on longterm ideas long-term vision of where

longterm ideas long-term vision of where longterm ideas long-term vision of where we want to go which means in the early

we want to go which means in the early we want to go which means in the early internet days it was a landrush right

internet days it was a landrush right internet days it was a landrush right the people who had the most customers

the people who had the most customers the people who had the most customers who could grow the fastest were the ones

who could grow the fastest were the ones who could grow the fastest were the ones who ultimately won and even in SAS you

who ultimately won and even in SAS you who ultimately won and even in SAS you know their AWS stuff I I won't call it

know their AWS stuff I I won't call it know their AWS stuff I I won't call it an accident but they didn't set out to

an accident but they didn't set out to an accident but they didn't set out to create AWS they set out to solve a

create AWS they set out to solve a create AWS they set out to solve a internal it problem which is every

internal it problem which is every internal it problem which is every division Department had their own team

division Department had their own team division Department had their own team and they were duplicating resources and

and they were duplicating resources and and they were duplicating resources and programming and all that kind of stuff

programming and all that kind of stuff programming and all that kind of stuff and Bezos said no we're no longer doing

and Bezos said no we're no longer doing and Bezos said no we're no longer doing that in fact he said I can't remember that in fact he said I can't remember that in fact he said I can't remember what year now early he said we will have

what year now early he said we will have what year now early he said we will have connections and we will have Central

connections and we will have Central connections and we will have Central repository for services

repository for services repository for services and all of a sudden somebody thought

and all of a sudden somebody thought and all of a sudden somebody thought actually it's Pro I think it was actually it's Pro I think it was actually it's Pro I think it was probably Andy jasse who ended up being

probably Andy jasse who ended up being probably Andy jasse who ended up being CEO of AWS before moving into basos

CEO of AWS before moving into basos CEO of AWS before moving into basos position uh he he said you know there's

position uh he he said you know there's position uh he he said you know there's got to be other developers who don't

got to be other developers who don't got to be other developers who don't want to spend money on infrastructure

want to spend money on infrastructure want to spend money on infrastructure and and the whole SAS I was I'm a little

and and the whole SAS I was I'm a little and and the whole SAS I was I'm a little Prejudice so but the SAS industry was

Prejudice so but the SAS industry was Prejudice so but the SAS industry was created because of that particular

created because of that particular created because of that particular thought so anyway I don't know I

thought so anyway I don't know I thought so anyway I don't know I directly addressed your question but I

directly addressed your question but I directly addressed your question but I think has casting that Vision as CEO as

think has casting that Vision as CEO as think has casting that Vision as CEO as SE Suite whatever that looks like to

SE Suite whatever that looks like to SE Suite whatever that looks like to your your your investors and making sure as much as

investors and making sure as much as investors and making sure as much as possible that they are in alignment with

possible that they are in alignment with possible that they are in alignment with the vision that co-founder founder

the vision that co-founder founder the vision that co-founder founder Whoever has for where that business

Whoever has for where that business Whoever has for where that business should should should go this is a good good feedback for me

go this is a good good feedback for me go this is a good good feedback for me because I'm literally working on it and because I'm literally working on it and because I'm literally working on it and if if if my uh investor newsletter tonight um

my uh investor newsletter tonight um my uh investor newsletter tonight um shifting a little bit because I know you shifting a little bit because I know you shifting a little bit because I know you do I think it's Insurance Agency

do I think it's Insurance Agency do I think it's Insurance Agency Consulting and comine with your

Consulting and comine with your Consulting and comine with your understanding of growth versus risk how

understanding of growth versus risk how understanding of growth versus risk how would you advise the SAS company knowing

would you advise the SAS company knowing would you advise the SAS company knowing when to exit when one of a couple things

when to exit when one of a couple things when to exit when one of a couple things could happen either the market changes

could happen either the market changes could happen either the market changes on you like I mean I'm sure we've got

on you like I mean I'm sure we've got on you like I mean I'm sure we've got the Blockbuster or it's kind of like

the Blockbuster or it's kind of like the Blockbuster or it's kind of like what about security because I mean

what about security because I mean what about security because I mean that's also part of the the insurance

that's also part of the the insurance that's also part of the the insurance equation oh yes we like to sell cyber

equation oh yes we like to sell cyber equation oh yes we like to sell cyber insurance so you know so when do you

insurance so you know so when do you insurance so you know so when do you exit gosh that's I think there's so many

exit gosh that's I think there's so many exit gosh that's I think there's so many factors that go into that particular

factors that go into that particular factors that go into that particular decision I I think a couple things that

decision I I think a couple things that decision I I think a couple things that come to mind one

come to mind one come to mind one is you know it is what do you see as the

is you know it is what do you see as the is you know it is what do you see as the future

future future and are you paying attention to external

and are you paying attention to external and are you paying attention to external trends so you mentioned something

trends so you mentioned something trends so you mentioned something changes you know business changes or you

changes you know business changes or you changes you know business changes or you know something like that and and one of

know something like that and and one of know something like that and and one of the things that that bezo said was

the things that that bezo said was the things that that bezo said was that paying attention to external trends

that paying attention to external trends that paying attention to external trends is a key differentiator between those

is a key differentiator between those is a key differentiator between those businesses that are gone and those that

businesses that are gone and those that businesses that are gone and those that stay because they are more adaptable and

stay because they are more adaptable and stay because they are more adaptable and it and as you grow it becomes harder and

it and as you grow it becomes harder and it and as you grow it becomes harder and harder to Pivot the change you know

harder to Pivot the change you know harder to Pivot the change you know we've been successful I would if I could

we've been successful I would if I could we've been successful I would if I could point to point to point to one

one one reason Kodak Black Blockbuster you know

reason Kodak Black Blockbuster you know reason Kodak Black Blockbuster you know cop USA I you pick

cop USA I you pick cop USA I you pick them we're gone is an unwillingness to

them we're gone is an unwillingness to them we're gone is an unwillingness to change and pivot what was their Cash Cow

change and pivot what was their Cash Cow change and pivot what was their Cash Cow and sometimes that's not possible right

and sometimes that's not possible right and sometimes that's not possible right um and if you're not paying attention to

um and if you're not paying attention to um and if you're not paying attention to those external trends then you're you

those external trends then you're you those external trends then you're you will be behind not ahead and again if

will be behind not ahead and again if will be behind not ahead and again if you look at Amazon in terms of how many

you look at Amazon in terms of how many you look at Amazon in terms of how many Industries have they

Industries have they Industries have they changed because they saw something

changed because they saw something changed because they saw something coming and got out there early

coming and got out there early coming and got out there early experimented failed got something going

experimented failed got something going experimented failed got something going and kept building upon that and there

and kept building upon that and there and kept building upon that and there are all kinds of examples I mean are all kinds of examples I mean are all kinds of examples I mean Healthcare right now they continue and

Healthcare right now they continue and Healthcare right now they continue and this is a multi-year thing and that

this is a multi-year thing and that this is a multi-year thing and that comes back to that long-term thinking

comes back to that long-term thinking comes back to that long-term thinking which is another principle right and not

which is another principle right and not which is another principle right and not I I think one of the biggest issues at

I I think one of the biggest issues at I I think one of the biggest issues at least for Bezos was we will not

least for Bezos was we will not least for Bezos was we will not adhere to Wall Street quarterly earnings

adhere to Wall Street quarterly earnings adhere to Wall Street quarterly earnings short-term thinking we will think

short-term thinking we will think short-term thinking we will think long-term and he got pounded for that

long-term and he got pounded for that long-term and he got pounded for that thinking ultimately I think you could

thinking ultimately I think you could thinking ultimately I think you could say he proved them

say he proved them say he proved them wrong but you know again and so even for

wrong but you know again and so even for wrong but you know again and so even for me I I'll give you a little my little

me I I'll give you a little my little me I I'll give you a little my little tiny World a little small company is not

tiny World a little small company is not tiny World a little small company is not big co-founder CEO up until mid last

big co-founder CEO up until mid last big co-founder CEO up until mid last year and as you can tell I'm kind of on

year and as you can tell I'm kind of on year and as you can tell I'm kind of on the other side of my career or the

the other side of my career or the the other side of my career or the downside I don't want to say the

downside I don't want to say the downside I don't want to say the downside quite yet but you know and I

downside quite yet but you know and I downside quite yet but you know and I told my board that you know I will do

told my board that you know I will do told my board that you know I will do this as long as I'm still having fun and

this as long as I'm still having fun and this as long as I'm still having fun and I think I think I think that's important too you know hustling

that's important too you know hustling that's important too you know hustling just a hustle I

just a hustle I just a hustle I mean gets really old I think for me and

mean gets really old I think for me and mean gets really old I think for me and that was part of my decision I didn't

that was part of my decision I didn't that was part of my decision I didn't like the day-to-day I like the ideation

like the day-to-day I like the ideation like the day-to-day I like the ideation I like up with things I like creating

I like up with things I like creating I like up with things I like creating but not the day-to-day kinds of stuff

but not the day-to-day kinds of stuff but not the day-to-day kinds of stuff and so I'm still involved and I'm still

and so I'm still involved and I'm still and so I'm still involved and I'm still doing more of that than the

doing more of that than the doing more of that than the day-to-day I would call it grind but you

day-to-day I would call it grind but you day-to-day I would call it grind but you know the day-to-day stuff needs to be

know the day-to-day stuff needs to be know the day-to-day stuff needs to be done needs to be done really well but

done needs to be done really well but done needs to be done really well but that not that not that not me well if I ever think about exiting we

me well if I ever think about exiting we me well if I ever think about exiting we get offers occasionally I'll come back

get offers occasionally I'll come back get offers occasionally I'll come back to this episode and change my mind look

to this episode and change my mind look to this episode and change my mind look at it again you know and and you don't

at it again you know and and you don't at it again you know and and you don't have to read the whole book but I think

have to read the whole book but I think have to read the whole book but I think you know there are certain chapters so

you know there are certain chapters so you know there are certain chapters so every CH every principal has a chapter

every CH every principal has a chapter every CH every principal has a chapter to it and there may be some interesting

to it and there may be some interesting to it and there may be some interesting things there for you go ahead yeah I'll

things there for you go ahead yeah I'll things there for you go ahead yeah I'll wait for you yeah I wanted to ask do you

wait for you yeah I wanted to ask do you wait for you yeah I wanted to ask do you think the role of a business analyst is

think the role of a business analyst is think the role of a business analyst is perhaps the least understood and may be

perhaps the least understood and may be perhaps the least understood and may be one of the most important

one of the most important one of the most important around I do I haven't thought of it that

around I do I haven't thought of it that around I do I haven't thought of it that way so that that was that's an way so that that was that's an way so that that was that's an interesting question you know when

interesting question you know when interesting question you know when people say I'm a business analyst really

people say I'm a business analyst really people say I'm a business analyst really what do you do sit around and you know

what do you do sit around and you know what do you do sit around and you know look look at stuff all day or you know

look look at stuff all day or you know look look at stuff all day or you know whatever but I I think that's perhaps

whatever but I I think that's perhaps whatever but I I think that's perhaps the the place that new ideas can come

the the place that new ideas can come the the place that new ideas can come from or new thoughts can come from

from or new thoughts can come from from or new thoughts can come from meaning I wonder if we did this or or do

meaning I wonder if we did this or or do meaning I wonder if we did this or or do we do we have to do this still I know

we do we have to do this still I know we do we have to do this still I know we've done it for five years but have

we've done it for five years but have we've done it for five years but have things changed and so asking those

things changed and so asking those things changed and so asking those questions and then creating small

questions and then creating small questions and then creating small experiments and and get to test some of

experiments and and get to test some of experiments and and get to test some of those ideas and then if you're seeing

those ideas and then if you're seeing those ideas and then if you're seeing some success continue to moving forward

some success continue to moving forward some success continue to moving forward and I would say one of the things that

and I would say one of the things that and I would say one of the things that it intrigues me is Amazon doesn't really

it intrigues me is Amazon doesn't really it intrigues me is Amazon doesn't really have a research and development

have a research and development have a research and development department their culture is built around

department their culture is built around department their culture is built around every employee should be looking at

every employee should be looking at every employee should be looking at their job and seeing how they could do their job and seeing how they could do their job and seeing how they could do it better again one of my principles is

it better again one of my principles is it better again one of my principles is make complexity simple and so what steps

make complexity simple and so what steps make complexity simple and so what steps can be removed from even the smallest

can be removed from even the smallest can be removed from even the smallest process and and that becomes every

process and and that becomes every process and and that becomes every employee then becomes your research and

employee then becomes your research and employee then becomes your research and development department and part of

development department and part of development department and part of what's interesting is that's one of the

what's interesting is that's one of the what's interesting is that's one of the keys for promotion at Amazon coming up

keys for promotion at Amazon coming up keys for promotion at Amazon coming up with a better way pitching it getting

with a better way pitching it getting with a better way pitching it getting Buy in and then often the person who

Buy in and then often the person who Buy in and then often the person who comes up with the idea actually becomes

comes up with the idea actually becomes comes up with the idea actually becomes the Project Lead for whatever that is

the Project Lead for whatever that is the Project Lead for whatever that is and so kind of internal development and

and so kind of internal development and and so kind of internal development and it and culture of being rewarded for

it and culture of being rewarded for it and culture of being rewarded for coming up with good

coming up with good coming up with good ideas now that's interesting from where

ideas now that's interesting from where ideas now that's interesting from where I sit because I interviewed someone on

I sit because I interviewed someone on I sit because I interviewed someone on the podcast who is part of an affiliate

the podcast who is part of an affiliate the podcast who is part of an affiliate program software and I said if you had

program software and I said if you had program software and I said if you had to put together your affiliate program to put together your affiliate program to put together your affiliate program today who are you hiring and the answer

today who are you hiring and the answer today who are you hiring and the answer he said threw me off he basically said

he said threw me off he basically said he said threw me off he basically said I'd get a business analyst as the first

I'd get a business analyst as the first I'd get a business analyst as the first person now everyone I know in affiliate

person now everyone I know in affiliate person now everyone I know in affiliate marketing that's not the first answer

marketing that's not the first answer marketing that's not the first answer like that's not even a thought it's

like that's not even a thought it's like that's not even a thought it's actually know you get affiliate manager actually know you get affiliate manager actually know you get affiliate manager and then they basically create the

and then they basically create the and then they basically create the program and you're copying and pasting

program and you're copying and pasting program and you're copying and pasting what everyone else has done you know his

what everyone else has done you know his what everyone else has done you know his answer was like analyst first then the

answer was like analyst first then the answer was like analyst first then the affiliate manager and the analyst is

affiliate manager and the analyst is affiliate manager and the analyst is basically educating the affiliate basically educating the affiliate basically educating the affiliate manager going these are the things I

manager going these are the things I manager going these are the things I need to look at and I think you should

need to look at and I think you should need to look at and I think you should look at them too yeah that's a great

look at them too yeah that's a great look at them too yeah that's a great that's a great Point yeah so what could

that's a great Point yeah so what could that's a great Point yeah so what could businesses do more of to set themselves

businesses do more of to set themselves businesses do more of to set themselves up for success for 2025 and Beyond and

up for success for 2025 and Beyond and up for success for 2025 and Beyond and again I'll go back to one principle was

again I'll go back to one principle was again I'll go back to one principle was coming to my almost what I started

coming to my almost what I started coming to my almost what I started saying but I think you the question

saying but I think you the question saying but I think you the question don't lead me into it um another area of

don't lead me into it um another area of don't lead me into it um another area of those companies that are no longer here

those companies that are no longer here those companies that are no longer here was was was decisionmaking and basis has a lot to

decisionmaking and basis has a lot to decisionmaking and basis has a lot to say about decision- making at Amazon and

say about decision- making at Amazon and say about decision- making at Amazon and he describes it as oneway and two-way

he describes it as oneway and two-way he describes it as oneway and two-way doors and what he says is or type one

doors and what he says is or type one doors and what he says is or type one and type two and type two and type two decisions what he says is that type one

decisions what he says is that type one decisions what he says is that type one decisions are made by every every

decisions are made by every every decisions are made by every every business but very very few decisions are

business but very very few decisions are business but very very few decisions are type one type one decisions are big bet

type one type one decisions are big bet type one type one decisions are big bet the farm huge do I exit do I I mean that

the farm huge do I exit do I I mean that the farm huge do I exit do I I mean that would be a type one decision and what he

would be a type one decision and what he would be a type one decision and what he says is those decisions need to be made

says is those decisions need to be made says is those decisions need to be made with as much information as you can

with as much information as you can with as much information as you can gather and by top level people if not

gather and by top level people if not gather and by top level people if not the CEO whatever that looks

the CEO whatever that looks the CEO whatever that looks like and um probably with a gut feeling

like and um probably with a gut feeling like and um probably with a gut feeling part of it so data and

part of it so data and part of it so data and gut but those are few and far between he

gut but those are few and far between he gut but those are few and far between he says as businesses

says as businesses says as businesses grow they tend to add layers managers

grow they tend to add layers managers grow they tend to add layers managers supervisors whatever you know regional

supervisors whatever you know regional supervisors whatever you know regional directors whatever that looks like and

directors whatever that looks like and directors whatever that looks like and he said that bureaucracy slows down

he said that bureaucracy slows down he said that bureaucracy slows down growth now P two decisions or a two-way

growth now P two decisions or a two-way growth now P two decisions or a two-way dooring are the everyday decisions

dooring are the everyday decisions dooring are the everyday decisions basically and he said frankly those

basically and he said frankly those basically and he said frankly those decisions aren't that consequential even

decisions aren't that consequential even decisions aren't that consequential even though they may look like it at the time

though they may look like it at the time though they may look like it at the time but he said those decisions should be

but he said those decisions should be but he said those decisions should be made with at most 70% of the information

made with at most 70% of the information made with at most 70% of the information you wish you had which I think is an

you wish you had which I think is an you wish you had which I think is an interesting gray right not that you have

interesting gray right not that you have interesting gray right not that you have that you wish you had um and they should

that you wish you had um and they should that you wish you had um and they should be made quickly by the lowest level

be made quickly by the lowest level be made quickly by the lowest level person or group that has the skills

person or group that has the skills person or group that has the skills necessary to make that decision

necessary to make that decision necessary to make that decision and he said if that decision is

and he said if that decision is and he said if that decision is wrong back to the Successful Failure

wrong back to the Successful Failure wrong back to the Successful Failure culture if that decision is wrong you

culture if that decision is wrong you culture if that decision is wrong you can do a couple things you can just stop

can do a couple things you can just stop can do a couple things you can just stop it you can pivot you can do something

it you can pivot you can do something it you can pivot you can do something else and that doesn't slow down growth

else and that doesn't slow down growth else and that doesn't slow down growth because now you look at okay why did we

because now you look at okay why did we because now you look at okay why did we make that decision and think it was a

make that decision and think it was a make that decision and think it was a good one but it ended up not being a

good one but it ended up not being a good one but it ended up not being a good one and so you start learning more

good one and so you start learning more good one and so you start learning more and more about the decision process and

and more about the decision process and and more about the decision process and about success and

about success and about success and failure so I think that I

failure so I think that I failure so I think that I mean bureaucracy is hated at Amazon and

mean bureaucracy is hated at Amazon and mean bureaucracy is hated at Amazon and and they have a couple of tools um that

and they have a couple of tools um that and they have a couple of tools um that they use one is called the two pizzza

they use one is called the two pizzza they use one is called the two pizzza team so a team is only as big as what

team so a team is only as big as what team so a team is only as big as what two large peaches can feed typically 10

two large peaches can feed typically 10 two large peaches can feed typically 10 12 people and he's and and again long

12 people and he's and and again long 12 people and he's and and again long story I won't go into it but but but the

story I won't go into it but but but the story I won't go into it but but but the bigger the team the more complex the

bigger the team the more complex the bigger the team the more complex the communication becomes and the slower

communication becomes and the slower communication becomes and the slower things happen so if you have small now

things happen so if you have small now things happen so if you have small now you might have for a project you might

you might have for a project you might you might have for a project you might have 10 15 50 teams but each responsible

have 10 15 50 teams but each responsible have 10 15 50 teams but each responsible for a particular

for a particular for a particular piece the other thing they did is early

piece the other thing they did is early piece the other thing they did is early on 2004 Bezos banned PowerPoint

on 2004 Bezos banned PowerPoint on 2004 Bezos banned PowerPoint presentations in meetings so no slide

presentations in meetings so no slide presentations in meetings so no slide orientated presentation because what he

orientated presentation because what he orientated presentation because what he said was people can throw bullet points

said was people can throw bullet points said was people can throw bullet points on a slide really quick and easy and not

on a slide really quick and easy and not on a slide really quick and easy and not think through exactly what's there and

think through exactly what's there and think through exactly what's there and he he he said when you present that way it it

said when you present that way it it said when you present that way it it just leads to sloppy

just leads to sloppy just leads to sloppy thinking in place of it he required

thinking in place of it he required thinking in place of it he required everyone to write a maximum what became

everyone to write a maximum what became everyone to write a maximum what became a maximum it it took a few years

a maximum it it took a few years a maximum it it took a few years six-page memo literally a written out

six-page memo literally a written out six-page memo literally a written out memo

memo memo that started with a future press release

that started with a future press release that started with a future press release what's the press release when this new

what's the press release when this new what's the press release when this new service this new product this new

service this new product this new service this new product this new platform whatever it is is released to

platform whatever it is is released to platform whatever it is is released to the public what's the advantage to the

the public what's the advantage to the the public what's the advantage to the public the customer and the key points

public the customer and the key points public the customer and the key points of the service so that's first so you

of the service so that's first so you of the service so that's first so you have an idea in your mind of the end

have an idea in your mind of the end have an idea in your mind of the end point and then FAQ what are the

point and then FAQ what are the point and then FAQ what are the questions everybody's in that meeting is

questions everybody's in that meeting is questions everybody's in that meeting is going to ask and you try and figure out

going to ask and you try and figure out going to ask and you try and figure out all those question questions and you all those question questions and you all those question questions and you provide an answer to those questions now

provide an answer to those questions now provide an answer to those questions now here's what's unique that memo is not

here's what's unique that memo is not here's what's unique that memo is not passed out before the meeting it's

passed out before the meeting it's passed out before the meeting it's passed out at the

passed out at the passed out at the be and everybody literally sits around

be and everybody literally sits around be and everybody literally sits around in a study hall as Bezos described it

in a study hall as Bezos described it in a study hall as Bezos described it because he said executives are

because he said executives are because he said executives are busy they'll say they're going to read

busy they'll say they're going to read busy they'll say they're going to read it they won't so we'll just carve out

it they won't so we'll just carve out it they won't so we'll just carve out the time so everybody literally is on

the time so everybody literally is on the time so everybody literally is on the same page now quick personal story

the same page now quick personal story the same page now quick personal story when I was Pitch

when I was Pitch when I was Pitch ING with this new company that I helped

ING with this new company that I helped ING with this new company that I helped create uh we pitched about 15 potential

create uh we pitched about 15 potential create uh we pitched about 15 potential investors uh and I did the six page mum

investors uh and I did the six page mum investors uh and I did the six page mum it was the most excruciating 20 minutes

it was the most excruciating 20 minutes it was the most excruciating 20 minutes I've had in a very long time because

I've had in a very long time because I've had in a very long time because you're sitting there going okay what are

you're sitting there going okay what are you're sitting there going okay what are they doing I and the people are making

they doing I and the people are making they doing I and the people are making notes and you know blah blah blah

notes and you know blah blah blah notes and you know blah blah blah but when I opened it up for discussion

but when I opened it up for discussion but when I opened it up for discussion and conversation and any additional

and conversation and any additional and conversation and any additional questions we didn't address it was such

questions we didn't address it was such questions we didn't address it was such a richer meeting and it's the whole idea

a richer meeting and it's the whole idea a richer meeting and it's the whole idea of slowing down to speed up the meeting

of slowing down to speed up the meeting of slowing down to speed up the meeting went faster ended up getting seven

went faster ended up getting seven went faster ended up getting seven investors out of that group so 50% and

investors out of that group so 50% and investors out of that group so 50% and we were able to launch and uh had the

we were able to launch and uh had the we were able to launch and uh had the funds we needed to you know build what

funds we needed to you know build what funds we needed to you know build what we needed to

we needed to we needed to build so going full circle back to Jeff

build so going full circle back to Jeff build so going full circle back to Jeff bezo starting a book company it seems

bezo starting a book company it seems bezo starting a book company it seems like this is a pattern I'm just picking

like this is a pattern I'm just picking like this is a pattern I'm just picking up from talking to you is that you know

up from talking to you is that you know up from talking to you is that you know writing your ideas down more than just

writing your ideas down more than just writing your ideas down more than just like in point form like they kind of

like in point form like they kind of like in point form like they kind of like like you said you've been doing a

like like you said you've been doing a like like you said you've been doing a writing for most of your career I've

writing for most of your career I've writing for most of your career I've done a lot but I find the more I do the

done a lot but I find the more I do the done a lot but I find the more I do the more clearer my thoughts get so do you

more clearer my thoughts get so do you more clearer my thoughts get so do you think there's like some sort of pattern

think there's like some sort of pattern think there's like some sort of pattern here that you know basil starts a book

here that you know basil starts a book here that you know basil starts a book company the key theme of this is writing

company the key theme of this is writing company the key theme of this is writing and authorship and I mean yeah he's

and authorship and I mean yeah he's and authorship and I mean yeah he's basically done it since day one like

basically done it since day one like basically done it since day one like changing what is typically you know

changing what is typically you know changing what is typically you know business stuff and saying okay we need

business stuff and saying okay we need business stuff and saying okay we need we need Clarity of thought pushed

we need Clarity of thought pushed we need Clarity of thought pushed through yes absolutely and basos is a

through yes absolutely and basos is a through yes absolutely and basos is a really good writer and and you see that

really good writer and and you see that really good writer and and you see that in the letters and I think that's part

in the letters and I think that's part in the letters and I think that's part of what kind of captured my attention is

of what kind of captured my attention is of what kind of captured my attention is how well he wrote and it was something

how well he wrote and it was something how well he wrote and it was something he had done a long time and brought it

he had done a long time and brought it he had done a long time and brought it into Amazon and you know when he was

into Amazon and you know when he was into Amazon and you know when he was thinking about because the whole idea

thinking about because the whole idea thinking about because the whole idea behind Amazon is this internet thing

behind Amazon is this internet thing behind Amazon is this internet thing right

right right 1995 and he thought you know people are

1995 and he thought you know people are 1995 and he thought you know people are going to buy stuff on the internet well

going to buy stuff on the internet well going to buy stuff on the internet well that was really early

that was really early that was really early um for people to start thinking that way

um for people to start thinking that way um for people to start thinking that way and you know again writing out is is key

and you know again writing out is is key and you know again writing out is is key and it's still a core skill at Amazon

and it's still a core skill at Amazon and it's still a core skill at Amazon today if you if you're interviewed at

today if you if you're interviewed at today if you if you're interviewed at Amazon depending on your position you

Amazon depending on your position you Amazon depending on your position you may be asked to write something because

may be asked to write something because may be asked to write something because people want to see if you can express

people want to see if you can express people want to see if you can express yourself in a written form and and the

yourself in a written form and and the yourself in a written form and and the the phrase I use um is I don't know what

the phrase I use um is I don't know what the phrase I use um is I don't know what I think until I write it

I think until I write it I think until I write it out I'm may think something and then but

out I'm may think something and then but out I'm may think something and then but write the process of writing it out

write the process of writing it out write the process of writing it out helps refine it I start seeing okay

helps refine it I start seeing okay helps refine it I start seeing okay that's really stupid let's we think you

that's really stupid let's we think you that's really stupid let's we think you know it it just really helps and I think

know it it just really helps and I think know it it just really helps and I think that's kind of that Hidden Gem in that

that's kind of that Hidden Gem in that that's kind of that Hidden Gem in that process brilliant well and think about

process brilliant well and think about process brilliant well and think about this if that project fails after all of

this if that project fails after all of this if that project fails after all of that now you have a document to go back

that now you have a document to go back that now you have a document to go back to and say what didn't we understand

to and say what didn't we understand to and say what didn't we understand that we need to learn from you know so

that we need to learn from you know so that we need to learn from you know so after action review you whatever you

after action review you whatever you after action review you whatever you want to call it you've got what you

want to call it you've got what you want to call it you've got what you thought were the right

thought were the right thought were the right answers and for whatever reason they

answers and for whatever reason they answers and for whatever reason they ended up not being so why and what can

ended up not being so why and what can ended up not being so why and what can we learn from them and maybe that's just

we learn from them and maybe that's just we learn from them and maybe that's just uh getting the 70% of the information

uh getting the 70% of the information uh getting the 70% of the information you need to make that decision yep

you need to make that decision yep you need to make that decision yep exactly well yes absolutely and you know

exactly well yes absolutely and you know exactly well yes absolutely and you know a lot of times they move forward but

a lot of times they move forward but a lot of times they move forward but they keep checking in to see okay is

they keep checking in to see okay is they keep checking in to see okay is this still something viable is this

this still something viable is this this still something viable is this should we still do this

should we still do this should we still do this Etc so and and you know again that helps

Etc so and and you know again that helps Etc so and and you know again that helps them move fast which is certainly

them move fast which is certainly them move fast which is certainly something Amazon has been good at for a

something Amazon has been good at for a something Amazon has been good at for a while moving fast while making it seem

while moving fast while making it seem while moving fast while making it seem slow but they're always making progress

slow but they're always making progress slow but they're always making progress yeah move move fast while slowing down

yeah move move fast while slowing down yeah move move fast while slowing down yeah or slowing down to move fast maybe

yeah or slowing down to move fast maybe yeah or slowing down to move fast maybe the right way to say it and the last

the right way to say it and the last the right way to say it and the last question is what do you see of the question is what do you see of the question is what do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as it

future of affiliate marketing as it future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business

intelligence actually I think it's intelligence actually I think it's probably be more important

probably be more important probably be more important and the reason for that so all the AI

and the reason for that so all the AI and the reason for that so all the AI stuff right I think people are going to

stuff right I think people are going to stuff right I think people are going to want more and more human connection so I

want more and more human connection so I want more and more human connection so I think people are going to be more

think people are going to be more think people are going to be more important certainly and AI does some

important certainly and AI does some important certainly and AI does some great stuff moving you know what I call

great stuff moving you know what I call great stuff moving you know what I call soul sucking tasks off people's plate

soul sucking tasks off people's plate soul sucking tasks off people's plate they don't want to do them anyway let's they don't want to do them anyway let's they don't want to do them anyway let's you know let's figure out a better way

you know let's figure out a better way you know let's figure out a better way to do that and they want connection so I

to do that and they want connection so I to do that and they want connection so I think you know again having an affiliate

think you know again having an affiliate think you know again having an affiliate that has a relationship with their

that has a relationship with their that has a relationship with their audience and and they become the trusted

audience and and they become the trusted audience and and they become the trusted person to be able to say hey I you know

person to be able to say hey I you know person to be able to say hey I you know and you let me finish my thought they

and you let me finish my thought they and you let me finish my thought they become the trusted person for helping

become the trusted person for helping become the trusted person for helping their clients make the a good decision

their clients make the a good decision their clients make the a good decision or exposing them to a good option that

or exposing them to a good option that or exposing them to a good option that might make sense to them and even with

might make sense to them and even with might make sense to them and even with all of that you know

all of that you know all of that you know and I've been around the affiliate world

and I've been around the affiliate world and I've been around the affiliate world for a long time um you got some people

for a long time um you got some people for a long time um you got some people who just want the money and they don't

who just want the money and they don't who just want the money and they don't last long is the way I would say it and

last long is the way I would say it and last long is the way I would say it and then there are people that I have known

then there are people that I have known then there are people that I have known followed read that I don't anymore

followed read that I don't anymore followed read that I don't anymore because they violated that trust so I

because they violated that trust so I because they violated that trust so I think you know it's important to keep

think you know it's important to keep think you know it's important to keep that in mind and you treat that trust um

that in mind and you treat that trust um that in mind and you treat that trust um carefully how I would say

carefully how I would say carefully how I would say it ironically enough I just find that

it ironically enough I just find that it ironically enough I just find that there's actually not too many people

there's actually not too many people there's actually not too many people writing about trust like what is trust

writing about trust like what is trust writing about trust like what is trust and how is this part of a business years

and how is this part of a business years and how is this part of a business years right like not a lot of people have that

right like not a lot of people have that right like not a lot of people have that long-term vision and fortunately

long-term vision and fortunately long-term vision and fortunately affiliate marketing of course attracts

affiliate marketing of course attracts affiliate marketing of course attracts the short term like I want to put in the

the short term like I want to put in the the short term like I want to put in the least amount of time make the most money

least amount of time make the most money least amount of time make the most money we all do but it never works that

we all do but it never works that we all do but it never works that way well it work it might work that way

way well it work it might work that way way well it work it might work that way for a short period of time but but

for a short period of time but but for a short period of time but but probably not long term yeah brilliant

probably not long term yeah brilliant probably not long term yeah brilliant Steve uh thank you so much for doing Steve uh thank you so much for doing Steve uh thank you so much for doing this I want to pass it back to you to this I want to pass it back to you to this I want to pass it back to you to ask how can people get a hold of you and

ask how can people get a hold of you and ask how can people get a hold of you and of course we're definitely going to of course we're definitely going to of course we're definitely going to include the the links to the book so my

include the the links to the book so my include the the links to the book so my primary social platform is LinkedIn so

primary social platform is LinkedIn so primary social platform is LinkedIn so you find me there Steve Anders insurance

you find me there Steve Anders insurance you find me there Steve Anders insurance or Steve Anderson Bezos probably will

or Steve Anderson Bezos probably will or Steve Anderson Bezos probably will pull me up I have a top voice there so I

pull me up I have a top voice there so I pull me up I have a top voice there so I tend to have a presence I guess I would

tend to have a presence I guess I would tend to have a presence I guess I would say the book website is the Bezos

say the book website is the Bezos say the book website is the Bezos letters.com letters.com letters.com and the book is available in all formats

and the book is available in all formats and the book is available in all formats Kindle audio print on Amazon of course

Kindle audio print on Amazon of course Kindle audio print on Amazon of course or it might still you know might be at

or it might still you know might be at or it might still you know might be at your local bookstore and so you should

your local bookstore and so you should your local bookstore and so you should be should be able to find it pretty

be should be able to find it pretty be should be able to find it pretty easily I'm ordering that book right

easily I'm ordering that book right easily I'm ordering that book right after we finish this call Steve thank

after we finish this call Steve thank after we finish this call Steve thank you so much for doing this my pleasure

you so much for doing this my pleasure you so much for doing this my pleasure thank you so much for having

thank you so much for having thank you so much for having me all right now the dreaded and

me all right now the dreaded and me all right now the dreaded and recording dreaded I don't know what I'm

recording dreaded I don't know what I'm recording dreaded I don't know what I'm going to be clicking on recording stop

going to be clicking on recording stop going to be clicking on recording stop recording this stop recording this

recording this stop recording this recording this stop recording this meeting will be saved in my

meeting will be saved in my meeting will be saved in my drive thank you for tuning in to the

drive thank you for tuning in to the drive thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to

this time to ask for a small favor to this time to ask for a small favor to leave a rating and review wherever you

leave a rating and review wherever you leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast that helps us

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