Digital PR Link Building Strategies for Google SGE with Fery Kaszoni

so we sometimes put in two weeks of work so we sometimes put in two weeks of work in a campaign that you know journalist

in a campaign that you know journalist in a campaign that you know journalist would have to do otherwise that's what

would have to do otherwise that's what would have to do otherwise that's what they need they they they need time how

they need they they they need time how they need they they they need time how do you give them time do the work that

do you give them time do the work that do you give them time do the work that they would have to do go and scrape

they would have to do go and scrape they would have to do go and scrape those websites my trip advisor or go and

those websites my trip advisor or go and those websites my trip advisor or go and you know filter those data sets put them

you know filter those data sets put them you know filter those data sets put them together on your team create something

together on your team create something together on your team create something create a report and give it to them

create a report and give it to them create a report and give it to them already made that's what they want so if

already made that's what they want so if already made that's what they want so if you give give them a very good work H

you give give them a very good work H you give give them a very good work H and based on what they write about out

and based on what they write about out and based on what they write about out consistently not just once a year or

consistently not just once a year or consistently not just once a year or once in two years consistently then you

once in two years consistently then you once in two years consistently then you know you will have a great success there

know you will have a great success there know you will have a great success there I'm John Wright and you're listening to

I'm John Wright and you're listening to I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence

affiliate bi the business intelligence affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought

and affiliate marketing podcast brought and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

to you by to you by stat welcome to the affiliate bi podcast

stat welcome to the affiliate bi podcast stat welcome to the affiliate bi podcast today we're chatting with fairy kazone

today we're chatting with fairy kazone today we're chatting with fairy kazone who's not just one of the most who's not just one of the most who's not just one of the most interesting link Builders I know he's

interesting link Builders I know he's interesting link Builders I know he's the first person to be featured twice on

the first person to be featured twice on the first person to be featured twice on this podcast he's the founder of the

this podcast he's the founder of the this podcast he's the founder of the search intelligence agency which

search intelligence agency which search intelligence agency which specializes in digital PR and I'm

specializes in digital PR and I'm specializes in digital PR and I'm excited to talk in about not just

excited to talk in about not just excited to talk in about not just digital PR but maybe some conflicting uh

digital PR but maybe some conflicting uh digital PR but maybe some conflicting uh philosophies on what it is how to do it

philosophies on what it is how to do it philosophies on what it is how to do it right so let's jump into branding in

right so let's jump into branding in right so let's jump into branding in digital PR awesome I'm bumped I'm glad

digital PR awesome I'm bumped I'm glad digital PR awesome I'm bumped I'm glad to be here for the second time and uh

to be here for the second time and uh to be here for the second time and uh yeah I'm I'm ready to give it away and

yeah I'm I'm ready to give it away and yeah I'm I'm ready to give it away and let's uh yeah let's as we talk before

let's uh yeah let's as we talk before let's uh yeah let's as we talk before the uh you know before the recording we

the uh you know before the recording we the uh you know before the recording we like let's uh you know let's just see

like let's uh you know let's just see like let's uh you know let's just see some controversial opinions because I do

some controversial opinions because I do some controversial opinions because I do have some controversial opinions that

have some controversial opinions that have some controversial opinions that you know might not resonate with the

you know might not resonate with the you know might not resonate with the traditional status quo of digital PR so

traditional status quo of digital PR so traditional status quo of digital PR so let's do it I I'm ready to be wrong so

let's do it I I'm ready to be wrong so let's do it I I'm ready to be wrong so my philosophy on digital PR is that I do

my philosophy on digital PR is that I do my philosophy on digital PR is that I do think that it can and should be an

think that it can and should be an think that it can and should be an extension of branding but I think it

extension of branding but I think it extension of branding but I think it also I mean I hate saying because I just

also I mean I hate saying because I just also I mean I hate saying because I just learned that in the SEO Community learned that in the SEO Community learned that in the SEO Community everyone says it depends so how does it

everyone says it depends so how does it everyone says it depends so how does it depend in digital PR I mean I think

depend in digital PR I mean I think depend in digital PR I mean I think links are they're they're sort of like

links are they're they're sort of like links are they're they're sort of like an extension of branding like for me for

an extension of branding like for me for an extension of branding like for me for my company in stat drone I'm like well

my company in stat drone I'm like well my company in stat drone I'm like well if we can be mentioned in any capacity

if we can be mentioned in any capacity if we can be mentioned in any capacity in the right context in affiliate in the right context in affiliate in the right context in affiliate marketing I personally view that as

marketing I personally view that as marketing I personally view that as positive branding now if I'm talking

positive branding now if I'm talking positive branding now if I'm talking about something controversial then I

about something controversial then I about something controversial then I still see it as branding it's like you still see it as branding it's like you still see it as branding it's like you know come to us for the discussion on

know come to us for the discussion on know come to us for the discussion on affiliate marketing but how do you see

affiliate marketing but how do you see affiliate marketing but how do you see it differently and where are people kind

it differently and where are people kind it differently and where are people kind of maybe disagreeing with

of maybe disagreeing with of maybe disagreeing with you I I think when when you say you know

you I I think when when you say you know you I I think when when you say you know oh digital PR you know I want some

oh digital PR you know I want some oh digital PR you know I want some branding therefore let's do some digital

branding therefore let's do some digital branding therefore let's do some digital PR H if people want to approach it that

PR H if people want to approach it that PR H if people want to approach it that way and that should that that would be

way and that should that that would be way and that should that that would be one of the main you know strategies for

one of the main you know strategies for one of the main you know strategies for Branding I don't think digital PR is an

Branding I don't think digital PR is an Branding I don't think digital PR is an effective way to to do branding as you

effective way to to do branding as you effective way to to do branding as you said it is a touch point so yeah when

said it is a touch point so yeah when said it is a touch point so yeah when we've done everything else in terms of

we've done everything else in terms of we've done everything else in terms of branding and we also want to just add

branding and we also want to just add branding and we also want to just add some extra touch points I think digital

some extra touch points I think digital some extra touch points I think digital PR is great but I don't think digital PR

PR is great but I don't think digital PR PR is great but I don't think digital PR should be used as one one of the main

should be used as one one of the main should be used as one one of the main drivers of branding because it's

drivers of branding because it's drivers of branding because it's probably the worst place to spend your

probably the worst place to spend your probably the worst place to spend your money if you want to go and oh I want

money if you want to go and oh I want money if you want to go and oh I want branding and then go and I'm going to do

branding and then go and I'm going to do branding and then go and I'm going to do digital PR now and that's going to

digital PR now and that's going to digital PR now and that's going to explode my brand and when you get

explode my brand and when you get explode my brand and when you get mentioned in the news outlets most of

mentioned in the news outlets most of mentioned in the news outlets most of the time yeah there might be some

the time yeah there might be some the time yeah there might be some exceptions right but most of the time

exceptions right but most of the time exceptions right but most of the time with digital PR and with any PR people

with digital PR and with any PR people with digital PR and with any PR people will usually forget about what they read

will usually forget about what they read will usually forget about what they read in like um you know 10 minutes after

in like um you know 10 minutes after in like um you know 10 minutes after reading or even less after win the post

reading or even less after win the post reading or even less after win the post so I think the

so I think the so I think the um The Branding aspect of digital PR is

um The Branding aspect of digital PR is um The Branding aspect of digital PR is real and but it's it should not be you

real and but it's it should not be you real and but it's it should not be you know digital be should not be you know

know digital be should not be you know know digital be should not be you know one of the main drivers of branding when

one of the main drivers of branding when one of the main drivers of branding when you've done you know exponential video

you've done you know exponential video you've done you know exponential video creation on all social channels and when

creation on all social channels and when creation on all social channels and when you've done you know everything else in

you've done you know everything else in you've done you know everything else in terms of branding you know and thought

terms of branding you know and thought terms of branding you know and thought leadership on on you know on various oh

leadership on on you know on various oh leadership on on you know on various oh conference and so on and you want to add

conference and so on and you want to add conference and so on and you want to add some extra touch points then yes you

some extra touch points then yes you some extra touch points then yes you should you know do digital PR but I

should you know do digital PR but I should you know do digital PR but I think digital PR the biggest value of

think digital PR the biggest value of think digital PR the biggest value of digital PR is is links and that's why

digital PR is is links and that's why digital PR is is links and that's why the industry exploded in the past three the industry exploded in the past three the industry exploded in the past three years because seos have figured out hey

years because seos have figured out hey years because seos have figured out hey you know these guest blogs some of you

you know these guest blogs some of you you know these guest blogs some of you know the inventory is Getting Thinner

know the inventory is Getting Thinner know the inventory is Getting Thinner and thinner and it's more you know

and thinner and it's more you know and thinner and it's more you know difficult to actually get good quality

difficult to actually get good quality difficult to actually get good quality sites that have a good reputation still

sites that have a good reputation still sites that have a good reputation still you know intact and therefore they found

you know intact and therefore they found you know intact and therefore they found out hey it's um you know digital PR

out hey it's um you know digital PR out hey it's um you know digital PR there's links there let's divert some

there's links there let's divert some there's links there let's divert some you know budget from this $1 million

you know budget from this $1 million you know budget from this $1 million dollar a year budget that we have for

dollar a year budget that we have for dollar a year budget that we have for link building and by the way people

link building and by the way people link building and by the way people might think this is crazy but1 million

might think this is crazy but1 million might think this is crazy but1 million dollars a year and for for link building

dollars a year and for for link building dollars a year and for for link building is is nothing as you might know in IG

is is nothing as you might know in IG is is nothing as you might know in IG gaming especially or in any competitive

gaming especially or in any competitive gaming especially or in any competitive Niche that's nothing so let's divert you

Niche that's nothing so let's divert you Niche that's nothing so let's divert you know quarter million per year to digital

know quarter million per year to digital know quarter million per year to digital PR because there's links there I think

PR because there's links there I think PR because there's links there I think the the most valuable um outcome of

the the most valuable um outcome of the the most valuable um outcome of digital PR is is links and and if you

digital PR is is links and and if you digital PR is is links and and if you don't have links I think the the money

don't have links I think the the money don't have links I think the the money is just being mostly wasted on on the J

is just being mostly wasted on on the J is just being mostly wasted on on the J PR that's what I think and that's what I

PR that's what I think and that's what I PR that's what I think and that's what I see from our client base now maybe some

see from our client base now maybe some see from our client base now maybe some other people have some you know other people have some you know other people have some you know different realities and that might you

different realities and that might you different realities and that might you know that also might be true but for my

know that also might be true but for my know that also might be true but for my reality and from our little world and

reality and from our little world and reality and from our little world and for our client base the biggest value of

for our client base the biggest value of for our client base the biggest value of DL PR is l

DL PR is l DL PR is l and branding is like a an extra little

and branding is like a an extra little and branding is like a an extra little you know very minuscule kind of value

you know very minuscule kind of value you know very minuscule kind of value that's there I I maybe I wonder if other

that's there I I maybe I wonder if other that's there I I maybe I wonder if other people maybe they put more weight and

people maybe they put more weight and people maybe they put more weight and say that is actually branding so they're

say that is actually branding so they're say that is actually branding so they're actually saying they're respecting The

actually saying they're respecting The actually saying they're respecting The Branding aspect but I mean it goes full

Branding aspect but I mean it goes full Branding aspect but I mean it goes full circle uh what people care about is

circle uh what people care about is circle uh what people care about is legit traffic and improved uh search

legit traffic and improved uh search legit traffic and improved uh search rankings so if you're getting that I

rankings so if you're getting that I rankings so if you're getting that I mean those should be the primary goals

mean those should be the primary goals mean those should be the primary goals but I think if you've got uh branding as

but I think if you've got uh branding as but I think if you've got uh branding as an extra benefit then maybe another way

an extra benefit then maybe another way an extra benefit then maybe another way to look at this is going well the

to look at this is going well the to look at this is going well the digital PR Done Right is actually going

digital PR Done Right is actually going digital PR Done Right is actually going to be the maximum value out of these

to be the maximum value out of these to be the maximum value out of these links yeah exactly well well it it comes

links yeah exactly well well it it comes links yeah exactly well well it it comes like yes it and it can be a massive

like yes it and it can be a massive like yes it and it can be a massive value for Branding for example you but

value for Branding for example you but value for Branding for example you but through the links so you get the links

through the links so you get the links through the links so you get the links and consistently not just you know what

and consistently not just you know what and consistently not just you know what campaign goes viral and you get 100 campaign goes viral and you get 100 campaign goes viral and you get 100 links once in a year but you know you

links once in a year but you know you links once in a year but you know you get consistent links every you know

get consistent links every you know get consistent links every you know month or two months or three months or

month or two months or three months or month or two months or three months or you get consistent links flowing to the

you get consistent links flowing to the you get consistent links flowing to the website for like long period of time and

website for like long period of time and website for like long period of time and those links will enhance your content on

those links will enhance your content on those links will enhance your content on the website where you are a thought

the website where you are a thought the website where you are a thought leader in your industry and you create

leader in your industry and you create leader in your industry and you create informational

informational informational articles that's where you know the

articles that's where you know the articles that's where you know the impact of digital PR can also be further

impact of digital PR can also be further impact of digital PR can also be further Amplified as a massive you know branding

Amplified as a massive you know branding Amplified as a massive you know branding machine where it amplifies your websit

machine where it amplifies your websit machine where it amplifies your websit Authority so that your info content rank

Authority so that your info content rank Authority so that your info content rank side it's not going to be your you know side it's not going to be your you know side it's not going to be your you know sales content but your Authority is ship

sales content but your Authority is ship sales content but your Authority is ship content on let's say if you are selling

content on let's say if you are selling content on let's say if you are selling you know um I know pet supplies you can

you know um I know pet supplies you can you know um I know pet supplies you can be the pet expert in your field that

be the pet expert in your field that be the pet expert in your field that helps hundreds of thousands of people on

helps hundreds of thousands of people on helps hundreds of thousands of people on Google with the info content and that's

Google with the info content and that's Google with the info content and that's branding you don't sell there you you

branding you don't sell there you you branding you don't sell there you you you build a brand you build love you

you build a brand you build love you you build a brand you build love you build a community and you know that's

build a community and you know that's build a community and you know that's another you know powerful branding

another you know powerful branding another you know powerful branding effect through the links but if you

effect through the links but if you effect through the links but if you don't have the links then it's just a

don't have the links then it's just a don't have the links then it's just a brand mention once in a newspaper a few

brand mention once in a newspaper a few brand mention once in a newspaper a few times in the newspaper and people forget times in the newspaper and people forget times in the newspaper and people forget about you but if you have the links then

about you but if you have the links then about you but if you have the links then they amplify your extra you know

they amplify your extra you know they amplify your extra you know branding assets as well that you have on branding assets as well that you have on branding assets as well that you have on the website would you say that it's

the website would you say that it's the website would you say that it's maybe it's probably possible to monitor

maybe it's probably possible to monitor maybe it's probably possible to monitor or measure but maybe it's difficult to

or measure but maybe it's difficult to or measure but maybe it's difficult to measure the impact of of these digital

measure the impact of of these digital measure the impact of of these digital PR campaigns where you do them and

PR campaigns where you do them and PR campaigns where you do them and you've got a campaign and let's say it

you've got a campaign and let's say it you've got a campaign and let's say it creates like 50 links but I'm assuming

creates like 50 links but I'm assuming creates like 50 links but I'm assuming that when those 50 links happen

that when those 50 links happen that when those 50 links happen sometimes they can they can catch wind

sometimes they can they can catch wind sometimes they can they can catch wind and they could actually lead to another and they could actually lead to another and they could actually lead to another five links but those those don't happen

five links but those those don't happen five links but those those don't happen instantly they might actually have over

instantly they might actually have over instantly they might actually have over a span of a year and you never know if

a span of a year and you never know if a span of a year and you never know if one of those links is going to lead to

one of those links is going to lead to one of those links is going to lead to someone messaging you in LinkedIn and

someone messaging you in LinkedIn and someone messaging you in LinkedIn and we're not all always taking the time to

we're not all always taking the time to we're not all always taking the time to go how did you hear about us well I go how did you hear about us well I go how did you hear about us well I heard about you with some random blog

heard about you with some random blog heard about you with some random blog that I had no business dealing with and

that I had no business dealing with and that I had no business dealing with and that's the first time I've heard of you that's the first time I've heard of you that's the first time I've heard of you or maybe that's the 14th time they heard

or maybe that's the 14th time they heard or maybe that's the 14th time they heard of you and then that's led to them being

of you and then that's led to them being of you and then that's led to them being I thought I was going to buy from you I thought I was going to buy from you I thought I was going to buy from you but now I'm ready to do it yeah yeah

but now I'm ready to do it yeah yeah but now I'm ready to do it yeah yeah that's branding right that's that's

that's branding right that's that's that's branding right that's that's that's kind of branding and but but I

that's kind of branding and but but I that's kind of branding and but but I don't think any activity like most apart

don't think any activity like most apart don't think any activity like most apart from like CPC where you have direct

from like CPC where you have direct from like CPC where you have direct clicks and you can me everything I think

clicks and you can me everything I think clicks and you can me everything I think branding you know building like brand

branding you know building like brand branding you know building like brand building activities such as know posting

building activities such as know posting building activities such as know posting on social media or such as um you know

on social media or such as um you know on social media or such as um you know digital PR or so on cannot really be

digital PR or so on cannot really be digital PR or so on cannot really be measured directly accurately with like

measured directly accurately with like measured directly accurately with like 100% or even like 50% accuracy because

100% or even like 50% accuracy because 100% or even like 50% accuracy because as you said how do you measure the fact

as you said how do you measure the fact as you said how do you measure the fact that people have seen you on a thousand

that people have seen you on a thousand that people have seen you on a thousand other places before they made the

other places before they made the other places before they made the decision and they forgot about about all

decision and they forgot about about all decision and they forgot about about all of those specific places but they

of those specific places but they of those specific places but they remember just you and when you ask them

remember just you and when you ask them remember just you and when you ask them where do where do you come from us they

where do where do you come from us they where do where do you come from us they will not be like well I've seen you on

will not be like well I've seen you on will not be like well I've seen you on this block and that block and that block this block and that block and that block this block and that block and that block and that block and it fed my and that block and it fed my and that block and it fed my subconscious mind so that I can remember

subconscious mind so that I can remember subconscious mind so that I can remember you when I need your service they will you when I need your service they will you when I need your service they will not be doing that right so it many

not be doing that right so it many not be doing that right so it many things are not measurable um directly um

things are not measurable um directly um things are not measurable um directly um most of the things in marketing actually

most of the things in marketing actually most of the things in marketing actually not like directly measurable you can

not like directly measurable you can not like directly measurable you can measure you know I've spent 500 Grand

measure you know I've spent 500 Grand measure you know I've spent 500 Grand per per year like last year on this on

per per year like last year on this on per per year like last year on this on these activities and the cumulative

these activities and the cumulative these activities and the cumulative effect of them was I've doubled my

effect of them was I've doubled my effect of them was I've doubled my Revenue compared to last year that's

Revenue compared to last year that's Revenue compared to last year that's something that you can kind of you know

something that you can kind of you know something that you can kind of you know measure but not like directly you know

measure but not like directly you know measure but not like directly you know I've launched this campaign and then it

I've launched this campaign and then it I've launched this campaign and then it got me this exactly this amount or

got me this exactly this amount or got me this exactly this amount or whatever right right okay let's keep the

whatever right right okay let's keep the whatever right right okay let's keep the the conversation going on the the conversation going on the the conversation going on the controversial topics um we obviously

controversial topics um we obviously controversial topics um we obviously know what parasite SEO is now how would

know what parasite SEO is now how would know what parasite SEO is now how would you would you say digital PR could be

you would you say digital PR could be you would you say digital PR could be like the white hat version a parasite

like the white hat version a parasite like the white hat version a parasite SEO it would be very hard to actually

SEO it would be very hard to actually SEO it would be very hard to actually create a Content so if you if you if you

create a Content so if you if you if you create a Content so if you if you if you are referring to let's say an example

are referring to let's say an example are referring to let's say an example I'm going to give an example but then I'm going to give an example but then I'm going to give an example but then maybe if that's not the case then I

maybe if that's not the case then I maybe if that's not the case then I would you know like you to give your

would you know like you to give your would you know like you to give your example so if you are referring to let's

example so if you are referring to let's example so if you are referring to let's say you launch a campaign and the

say you launch a campaign and the say you launch a campaign and the campaign ends up in like the newor post

campaign ends up in like the newor post campaign ends up in like the newor post and then that will start ranking and

and then that will start ranking and and then that will start ranking and then that's how you would get leads is

then that's how you would get leads is then that's how you would get leads is that what you refer to that would be one

that what you refer to that would be one that what you refer to that would be one example like you know if you can create

example like you know if you can create example like you know if you can create an article that I mean in a perfect

an article that I mean in a perfect an article that I mean in a perfect world I'm looking at targeting things

world I'm looking at targeting things world I'm looking at targeting things like SEO affiliate programs that's very

like SEO affiliate programs that's very like SEO affiliate programs that's very specific and I I don't see how else I'm

specific and I I don't see how else I'm specific and I I don't see how else I'm going to get like the New York Post to

going to get like the New York Post to going to get like the New York Post to actually write about that content like

actually write about that content like actually write about that content like with those specific keywords but I mean

with those specific keywords but I mean with those specific keywords but I mean maybe yeah maybe this is the next best

maybe yeah maybe this is the next best maybe yeah maybe this is the next best thing where it's like if I can get them thing where it's like if I can get them thing where it's like if I can get them talking about SEO affiliate then maybe

talking about SEO affiliate then maybe talking about SEO affiliate then maybe that's still a good extension where

that's still a good extension where that's still a good extension where they're going to capture a certain they're going to capture a certain they're going to capture a certain audience and then it's like well how am

audience and then it's like well how am audience and then it's like well how am I getting them to talk about a certain

I getting them to talk about a certain I getting them to talk about a certain top that's that's that's why digital PR

top that's that's that's why digital PR top that's that's that's why digital PR is like hard you don't like get people

is like hard you don't like get people is like hard you don't like get people to talk about you know topics that you

to talk about you know topics that you to talk about you know topics that you want you have to almost adapt to what

want you have to almost adapt to what want you have to almost adapt to what they want to talk about and then give

they want to talk about and then give they want to talk about and then give them what they need with digital that's

them what they need with digital that's them what they need with digital that's kind of digital that's the most of the I

kind of digital that's the most of the I kind of digital that's the most of the I mean there's lots of other types of

mean there's lots of other types of mean there's lots of other types of digital PR that you can do but like 98%

digital PR that you can do but like 98% digital PR that you can do but like 98% of PR is you know resonate with the with

of PR is you know resonate with the with of PR is you know resonate with the with the news agenda and then give them

the news agenda and then give them the news agenda and then give them something that they want because you

something that they want because you something that they want because you know they will want to cover something

know they will want to cover something know they will want to cover something um you know something about that topic

um you know something about that topic um you know something about that topic so affiliate you know

so affiliate you know so affiliate you know SEO they don't really write about those

SEO they don't really write about those SEO they don't really write about those topics because they know like like who

topics because they know like like who topics because they know like like who who cares out of the you know hundreds

who cares out of the you know hundreds who cares out of the you know hundreds of millions of readers that they have

of millions of readers that they have of millions of readers that they have like very few people would actually get

like very few people would actually get like very few people would actually get you know get to click on that a very

you know get to click on that a very you know get to click on that a very small fraction of Their audience

small fraction of Their audience small fraction of Their audience therefore therefore therefore you would from from my knowledge so far

you would from from my knowledge so far you would from from my knowledge so far you would find it very hard to you know

you would find it very hard to you know you would find it very hard to you know almost like

almost like almost like hack like the news agenda with with the

hack like the news agenda with with the hack like the news agenda with with the agenda that you want um and you know

agenda that you want um and you know agenda that you want um and you know just to recreate a parasite SEO kind of

just to recreate a parasite SEO kind of just to recreate a parasite SEO kind of um you know almost like cloak parasite

um you know almost like cloak parasite um you know almost like cloak parasite SEO I would I mean if somebody ever does

SEO I would I mean if somebody ever does SEO I would I mean if somebody ever does it please let me know but so far I don't

it please let me know but so far I don't it please let me know but so far I don't think I don't think that would very

think I don't think that would very think I don't think that would very doable and doable in like a systematic

doable and doable in like a systematic doable and doable in like a systematic replicable way would you have to do it

replicable way would you have to do it replicable way would you have to do it like on a oneon-one basis not like on a

like on a oneon-one basis not like on a like on a oneon-one basis not like on a like a campaign that that creates 50

like a campaign that that creates 50 like a campaign that that creates 50 links it would have to be one link and

links it would have to be one link and links it would have to be one link and you'd have to be lucky enough to like

you'd have to be lucky enough to like you'd have to be lucky enough to like befriend a journalists let's say it's

befriend a journalists let's say it's befriend a journalists let's say it's you know Business Insider you'd have to

you know Business Insider you'd have to you know Business Insider you'd have to magically convince them that they're magically convince them that they're magically convince them that they're going to write about this topic and then going to write about this topic and then going to write about this topic and then somehow it's going to link to you I

somehow it's going to link to you I somehow it's going to link to you I guess that would be the only other way

guess that would be the only other way guess that would be the only other way yeah yeah they they know they know they

yeah yeah they they know they know they yeah yeah they they know they know they know the like they they can smell it out

know the like they they can smell it out know the like they they can smell it out what what you want right they would

what what you want right they would what what you want right they would smell your intentions from like you know

smell your intentions from like you know smell your intentions from like you know I mean that would be ideal um but but

I mean that would be ideal um but but I mean that would be ideal um but but but then I don't think they would ever but then I don't think they would ever but then I don't think they would ever do it for free as well and if if you

do it for free as well and if if you do it for free as well and if if you have to pay for it then it's like stops

have to pay for it then it's like stops have to pay for it then it's like stops being PR then it becomes like a pay

being PR then it becomes like a pay being PR then it becomes like a pay sponsorship all right well let's keep

sponsorship all right well let's keep sponsorship all right well let's keep the controversy going well what if you

the controversy going well what if you the controversy going well what if you were to pay that journalist and they

were to pay that journalist and they were to pay that journalist and they took money on the side I'm assuming this

took money on the side I'm assuming this took money on the side I'm assuming this happens all the time and I've heard

happens all the time and I've heard happens all the time and I've heard this so would that be one way in which

this so would that be one way in which this so would that be one way in which you could do it where it's like look you could do it where it's like look you could do it where it's like look we'll charge you this fee it's under the

we'll charge you this fee it's under the we'll charge you this fee it's under the table um if the link gets removed I

table um if the link gets removed I table um if the link gets removed I can't guarantee it stays up forever and

can't guarantee it stays up forever and can't guarantee it stays up forever and you got to just hope that if you're the

you got to just hope that if you're the you got to just hope that if you're the one buying this that it basically gets

one buying this that it basically gets one buying this that it basically gets undetected and hopefully it's such a

undetected and hopefully it's such a undetected and hopefully it's such a good article that it doesn't seem

good article that it doesn't seem good article that it doesn't seem promotional I think that would probably

promotional I think that would probably promotional I think that would probably be your only way of actually achieving

be your only way of actually achieving be your only way of actually achieving that yeah exactly and and I I know that

that yeah exactly and and I I know that that yeah exactly and and I I know that many people do that and it works

many people do that and it works many people do that and it works actually it actually works it will cost

actually it actually works it will cost actually it actually works it will cost you you know some some money but but it

you you know some some money but but it you you know some some money but but it does work and and that's been the driver

does work and and that's been the driver does work and and that's been the driver probably of the uh um the parasite SEO

probably of the uh um the parasite SEO probably of the uh um the parasite SEO as well right that that's be kind of and

as well right that that's be kind of and as well right that that's be kind of and it then stops being a digital PR so uh

it then stops being a digital PR so uh it then stops being a digital PR so uh once you do like a monitary or any

once you do like a monitary or any once you do like a monitary or any incentive uh exchange to the journalist

incentive uh exchange to the journalist incentive uh exchange to the journalist then that's not PR anymore that is you

then that's not PR anymore that is you then that's not PR anymore that is you know paid promotions or or guest posts

know paid promotions or or guest posts know paid promotions or or guest posts or whatever paid guest blogs and so on

or whatever paid guest blogs and so on or whatever paid guest blogs and so on so digital PR SE is to exist whenever

so digital PR SE is to exist whenever so digital PR SE is to exist whenever you take the money out of your pocket

you take the money out of your pocket you take the money out of your pocket then digital PR Fades out and it changes

then digital PR Fades out and it changes then digital PR Fades out and it changes to something else so it looks like white

to something else so it looks like white to something else so it looks like white hat leag building but yeah it's really

hat leag building but yeah it's really hat leag building but yeah it's really not white hat at all no it's it's like

not white hat at all no it's it's like not white hat at all no it's it's like black pocket link building CU yeah you

black pocket link building CU yeah you black pocket link building CU yeah you have to pay you pay yeah it is

have to pay you pay yeah it is have to pay you pay yeah it is definitely black hat if you pay for for

definitely black hat if you pay for for definitely black hat if you pay for for the link and and I wonder if anyone's

the link and and I wonder if anyone's the link and and I wonder if anyone's got any insights of like how big this

got any insights of like how big this got any insights of like how big this industry is because we all see the links

industry is because we all see the links industry is because we all see the links like you go through HRS or any link tool

like you go through HRS or any link tool like you go through HRS or any link tool and you're like you just see the links

and you're like you just see the links and you're like you just see the links in front of your face you're like oh let in front of your face you're like oh let in front of your face you're like oh let me filter by like the highest one you're me filter by like the highest one you're me filter by like the highest one you're like how did they get this one yeah you

like how did they get this one yeah you like how did they get this one yeah you know probably millions of of dollars a

know probably millions of of dollars a know probably millions of of dollars a year or even more tens of millions maybe

year or even more tens of millions maybe year or even more tens of millions maybe yeah or day yeah yeah it's it's I know

yeah or day yeah yeah it's it's I know yeah or day yeah yeah it's it's I know it's a big industry um as you said we

it's a big industry um as you said we it's a big industry um as you said we can see it everywhere and and you know

can see it everywhere and and you know can see it everywhere and and you know yeah I yeah I yeah I mean it can

mean it can mean it can work so what you mentioned before I

work so what you mentioned before I work so what you mentioned before I think is kind of like it's going full

think is kind of like it's going full think is kind of like it's going full circle into your business that you said

circle into your business that you said circle into your business that you said that you need to think about the

that you need to think about the that you need to think about the audience and when I'm talking about the

audience and when I'm talking about the audience and when I'm talking about the audience it's basically the journalist

audience it's basically the journalist audience it's basically the journalist the person that's going to pick up your the person that's going to pick up your the person that's going to pick up your story so I'm guessing the reason why

story so I'm guessing the reason why story so I'm guessing the reason why you've got a lot of success is because

you've got a lot of success is because you've got a lot of success is because you intentionally understand this and

you intentionally understand this and you intentionally understand this and for some reason it seems like most link

for some reason it seems like most link for some reason it seems like most link Builders or even affiliate marketers or

Builders or even affiliate marketers or Builders or even affiliate marketers or any marketers they're just kind of any marketers they're just kind of any marketers they're just kind of oblivious to it like they're like why

oblivious to it like they're like why oblivious to it like they're like why won't you write about my amazing content

won't you write about my amazing content won't you write about my amazing content and it's like well I have this job to do

and it's like well I have this job to do and it's like well I have this job to do and um maybe that's why you've actually

and um maybe that's why you've actually and um maybe that's why you've actually got the success because you take the

got the success because you take the got the success because you take the time to listen time to listen time to listen yeah yeah we like that that's the key

yeah yeah we like that that's the key yeah yeah we like that that's the key just just give them what they want find

just just give them what they want find just just give them what they want find out first what they want not what you

out first what they want not what you out first what they want not what you want but give them what they want and

want but give them what they want and want but give them what they want and what what do they want they want an

what what do they want they want an what what do they want they want an interesting research that resonates with

interesting research that resonates with interesting research that resonates with their style uh with their work so if you

their style uh with their work so if you their style uh with their work so if you look at what they have written about you

look at what they have written about you look at what they have written about you know in the past six months then you can

know in the past six months then you can know in the past six months then you can have a good idea of exactly what they

have a good idea of exactly what they have a good idea of exactly what they want once you have that then give it to

want once you have that then give it to want once you have that then give it to themsel like you know

themsel like you know themsel like you know like like like selflessly and give give them expert

selflessly and give give them expert selflessly and give give them expert quotes give them and just spend a week

quotes give them and just spend a week quotes give them and just spend a week or two on a big data research that we

or two on a big data research that we or two on a big data research that we all like we we have we continuously have

all like we we have we continuously have all like we we have we continuously have like uh 20 30 data campaigns uh you know

like uh 20 30 data campaigns uh you know like uh 20 30 data campaigns uh you know or even more that that's relying just on

or even more that that's relying just on or even more that that's relying just on big big data sets U that the team is

big big data sets U that the team is big big data sets U that the team is working on so we sometimes put in two

working on so we sometimes put in two working on so we sometimes put in two weeks of work in a campaign that you

weeks of work in a campaign that you weeks of work in a campaign that you know journalists would have to do

know journalists would have to do know journalists would have to do otherwise that's what they need they

otherwise that's what they need they otherwise that's what they need they they they need time how do give them

they they need time how do give them they they need time how do give them time do the work that they would have to

time do the work that they would have to time do the work that they would have to do go and scrape those websites like

do go and scrape those websites like do go and scrape those websites like trip advisor or go and you know filter

trip advisor or go and you know filter trip advisor or go and you know filter those data sets put them together on

those data sets put them together on those data sets put them together on your team create something create a

your team create something create a your team create something create a report and give it to them already made

report and give it to them already made report and give it to them already made that's what they want so if you give

that's what they want so if you give that's what they want so if you give give them a very good work H and based

give them a very good work H and based give them a very good work H and based on what they write about consistently

on what they write about consistently on what they write about consistently not just once a year or once in two

not just once a year or once in two not just once a year or once in two years consistently then you know you

years consistently then you know you years consistently then you know you will have a great success there okay I

will have a great success there okay I will have a great success there okay I know we did a small example of this

know we did a small example of this know we did a small example of this where for our app we're basically

where for our app we're basically where for our app we're basically listing all the affiliate programs we

listing all the affiliate programs we listing all the affiliate programs we work with in a specific nich so right

work with in a specific nich so right work with in a specific nich so right now we have gambling covered we have

now we have gambling covered we have now we have gambling covered we have 1300 and we are we are actually um we

1300 and we are we are actually um we 1300 and we are we are actually um we kind of monitor a certain amount of data kind of monitor a certain amount of data kind of monitor a certain amount of data so we know which affiliate software each

so we know which affiliate software each so we know which affiliate software each program is using now we weren't sure if

program is using now we weren't sure if program is using now we weren't sure if this was going to be interesting we're this was going to be interesting we're this was going to be interesting we're like okay is it a big deal well the

like okay is it a big deal well the like okay is it a big deal well the software companies actually were like

software companies actually were like software companies actually were like can we have that list every month so

can we have that list every month so can we have that list every month so we're like okay sure whatever uh we're

we're like okay sure whatever uh we're we're like okay sure whatever uh we're we're doing deals to help each other so

we're doing deals to help each other so we're doing deals to help each other so it's amazing and one of the companies

it's amazing and one of the companies it's amazing and one of the companies that happened to be the number one that happened to be the number one that happened to be the number one software supplier in the market they

software supplier in the market they software supplier in the market they published the list that said we're the

published the list that said we're the published the list that said we're the number one most used affiliate software

number one most used affiliate software number one most used affiliate software in igaming and they said according to

in igaming and they said according to in igaming and they said according to stat drone so for us we had 20 mentions

stat drone so for us we had 20 mentions stat drone so for us we had 20 mentions in 20 different blogs you're probably

in 20 different blogs you're probably in 20 different blogs you're probably going to hate me for saying this I going to hate me for saying this I going to hate me for saying this I haven't chased them all down for hey

haven't chased them all down for hey haven't chased them all down for hey could you attribute the stat show and a

could you attribute the stat show and a could you attribute the stat show and a link back to us uh I think we got like

link back to us uh I think we got like link back to us uh I think we got like three out of 20 naturally which was is

three out of 20 naturally which was is three out of 20 naturally which was is not bad but uh I think that's a good

not bad but uh I think that's a good not bad but uh I think that's a good example of going well yes what are ways

example of going well yes what are ways example of going well yes what are ways you can do this and you know this just

you can do this and you know this just you can do this and you know this just happened like they did Ting ego baiting

happened like they did Ting ego baiting happened like they did Ting ego baiting is is one of the best ways to get links

is is one of the best ways to get links is is one of the best ways to get links right like create a list um with we you

right like create a list um with we you right like create a list um with we you know with like like a credible list with

know with like like a credible list with know with like like a credible list with a credible methodology um and and you

a credible methodology um and and you a credible methodology um and and you people will want to share like oh we've

people will want to share like oh we've people will want to share like oh we've been named you know number five on this

been named you know number five on this been named you know number five on this list um it's ego bating and it always

list um it's ego bating and it always list um it's ego bating and it always works it works the same with journalist

works it works the same with journalist works it works the same with journalist when you pitch something about location

when you pitch something about location when you pitch something about location like if they say oh this location is

like if they say oh this location is like if they say oh this location is like the best for you know retiring

like the best for you know retiring like the best for you know retiring early uh journalist from that area will

early uh journalist from that area will early uh journalist from that area will always cover it like from the top three

always cover it like from the top three always cover it like from the top three they will always cover it because they they will always cover it because they they will always cover it because they are like you know it's ego baiting oh

are like you know it's ego baiting oh are like you know it's ego baiting oh like we we're going to write about our

like we we're going to write about our like we we're going to write about our area and we know that our you know

area and we know that our you know area and we know that our you know readers are going to click on it because

readers are going to click on it because readers are going to click on it because it's like you know it feeds the ego like

it's like you know it feeds the ego like it's like you know it feeds the ego like oh we are like the

oh we are like the oh we are like the best so that's why awards are always

best so that's why awards are always best so that's why awards are always important because I've heard seos say

important because I've heard seos say important because I've heard seos say that Awards boards are are a big factor

that Awards boards are are a big factor that Awards boards are are a big factor and it's like well why and well I think

and it's like well why and well I think and it's like well why and well I think we know why they they generate links but

we know why they they generate links but we know why they they generate links but I think this is feeding the pr machine

I think this is feeding the pr machine I think this is feeding the pr machine it's feeding social it's feeding link

it's feeding social it's feeding link it's feeding social it's feeding link building it's feeding brand mentions and

building it's feeding brand mentions and building it's feeding brand mentions and this is why everyone goes crazy like we this is why everyone goes crazy like we this is why everyone goes crazy like we just won an an Big Industry award back

just won an an Big Industry award back just won an an Big Industry award back in February like best tech for

in February like best tech for in February like best tech for Affiliates from the igb affiliate Awards

Affiliates from the igb affiliate Awards Affiliates from the igb affiliate Awards and for us it like the link building

and for us it like the link building and for us it like the link building that happened naturally was pretty we

that happened naturally was pretty we that happened naturally was pretty we picked up on it we were like okay what

picked up on it we were like okay what picked up on it we were like okay what can we do to amp

can we do to amp can we do to amp so we wrote Our Own articles we actually

so we wrote Our Own articles we actually so we wrote Our Own articles we actually it's funny enough you're talking about it's funny enough you're talking about it's funny enough you're talking about ego baiting I mentioned all the other

ego baiting I mentioned all the other ego baiting I mentioned all the other winners and I got from them and I

winners and I got from them and I winners and I got from them and I republished articles and they're like republished articles and they're like republished articles and they're like thank you for that and those actually

thank you for that and those actually thank you for that and those actually picked up even more links on top of it

picked up even more links on top of it picked up even more links on top of it it works it works yeah it's very very on

it works it works yeah it's very very on it works it works yeah it's very very on point so we we sort of chatted before

point so we we sort of chatted before point so we we sort of chatted before recording that business is booming so

recording that business is booming so recording that business is booming so with all the changes and disruptions

with all the changes and disruptions with all the changes and disruptions happening with Google of like you know

happening with Google of like you know happening with Google of like you know the helpful content update and I'm

the helpful content update and I'm the helpful content update and I'm losing track of all the names of the losing track of all the names of the losing track of all the names of the updates like everyone's getting shaken

updates like everyone's getting shaken updates like everyone's getting shaken down things things are going up and then

down things things are going up and then down things things are going up and then recovering or not recovering at all and

recovering or not recovering at all and recovering or not recovering at all and when I was at Brighton I was like the

when I was at Brighton I was like the when I was at Brighton I was like the biggest beneficiaries of all this new

biggest beneficiaries of all this new biggest beneficiaries of all this new business for SEO are going to be the

business for SEO are going to be the business for SEO are going to be the people that do video content because

people that do video content because people that do video content because they're trustworthy and I think there's

they're trustworthy and I think there's they're trustworthy and I think there's there's two things here it's because a

there's two things here it's because a there's two things here it's because a person like you is very personable and

person like you is very personable and person like you is very personable and very social and on video you're going to

very social and on video you're going to very social and on video you're going to get more of the business and I think

get more of the business and I think get more of the business and I think people are going to realize wait a people are going to realize wait a people are going to realize wait a minute the way of doing SEO in the past

minute the way of doing SEO in the past minute the way of doing SEO in the past is actually being transformed right in

is actually being transformed right in is actually being transformed right in front of us and you you as a thought

front of us and you you as a thought front of us and you you as a thought leader and other people that we know

leader and other people that we know leader and other people that we know have been doing this for quite some time have been doing this for quite some time have been doing this for quite some time and I think people are going to be wait and I think people are going to be wait and I think people are going to be wait a minute I don't know who to trust but

a minute I don't know who to trust but a minute I don't know who to trust but it's now going to be you so how is

it's now going to be you so how is it's now going to be you so how is business business business doing yeah it's um we are continuously

doing yeah it's um we are continuously doing yeah it's um we are continuously hiring um it's it's like the demand is

hiring um it's it's like the demand is hiring um it's it's like the demand is is higher than ever for digital PR and

is higher than ever for digital PR and is higher than ever for digital PR and I'm not sure whether it's the industry

I'm not sure whether it's the industry I'm not sure whether it's the industry or you know as you said you know my know

or you know as you said you know my know or you know as you said you know my know personal brand just being out

personal brand just being out personal brand just being out there but it's it's great like we we we

there but it's it's great like we we we there but it's it's great like we we we now we we are we are even like pushing

now we we are we are even like pushing now we we are we are even like pushing back with clients because we want to

back with clients because we want to back with clients because we want to catch a breath so we make the systems

catch a breath so we make the systems catch a breath so we make the systems and the processes more efficient so we

and the processes more efficient so we and the processes more efficient so we want we want to double you know the the

want we want to double you know the the want we want to double you know the the the kpis of our team members but without

the kpis of our team members but without the kpis of our team members but without doubling their workload so we want to

doubling their workload so we want to doubling their workload so we want to you know double the output um so that we

you know double the output um so that we you know double the output um so that we can serve even more clients so we are we

can serve even more clients so we are we can serve even more clients so we are we literally I'm putting off the meetings

literally I'm putting off the meetings literally I'm putting off the meetings for like next month um because we need a

for like next month um because we need a for like next month um because we need a bit of a time to catch a breath you know

bit of a time to catch a breath you know bit of a time to catch a breath you know polish up the systems because when you

polish up the systems because when you polish up the systems because when you have this influx of like you know

have this influx of like you know have this influx of like you know unlimited leads it's like it's like a

unlimited leads it's like it's like a unlimited leads it's like it's like a tap where you have to sometimes you know

tap where you have to sometimes you know tap where you have to sometimes you know just put a put a hold on it um but they

just put a put a hold on it um but they just put a put a hold on it um but they still keep on coming um and yeah

still keep on coming um and yeah still keep on coming um and yeah business is is like crazy I think Google

business is is like crazy I think Google business is is like crazy I think Google did help us with you know the helpful

did help us with you know the helpful did help us with you know the helpful content update and all the other you

content update and all the other you content update and all the other you know up updates that that have you know

know up updates that that have you know know up updates that that have you know o iterated like small sites recently

o iterated like small sites recently o iterated like small sites recently because what is a small site a small

because what is a small site a small because what is a small site a small site is a site with you know less links

site is a site with you know less links site is a site with you know less links that's what the small s is um like I

that's what the small s is um like I that's what the small s is um like I made a post I'm not sure you might have made a post I'm not sure you might have made a post I'm not sure you might have seen it about um Google is right you

seen it about um Google is right you seen it about um Google is right you know small we like small websites

know small we like small websites know small we like small websites started dominating page one for started dominating page one for started dominating page one for competitive keywords and I putting like

competitive keywords and I putting like competitive keywords and I putting like best mattress 2024 and I said like dr20

best mattress 2024 and I said like dr20 best mattress 2024 and I said like dr20 dr1 dr39 and he was like hey was

dr1 dr39 and he was like hey was dr1 dr39 and he was like hey was sarcastic post about you know for.com

sarcastic post about you know for.com sarcastic post about you know for.com number one dr20 so like small low Dr

number one dr20 so like small low Dr number one dr20 so like small low Dr size dominate of page one for every

size dominate of page one for every size dominate of page one for every search ter well actually the the sites

search ter well actually the the sites search ter well actually the the sites that dominate are the ones that have you

that dominate are the ones that have you that dominate are the ones that have you know great Authority they have massive

know great Authority they have massive know great Authority they have massive link profile with you know like genuine

link profile with you know like genuine link profile with you know like genuine you know Quality quality links and and I

you know Quality quality links and and I you know Quality quality links and and I think that's kind of the fact that

think that's kind of the fact that think that's kind of the fact that Google has punished those small you know

Google has punished those small you know Google has punished those small you know websites with no link profiles May you

websites with no link profiles May you websites with no link profiles May you know like like a big um you know alarm

know like like a big um you know alarm know like like a big um you know alarm alarm sound in the industry like hey you

alarm sound in the industry like hey you alarm sound in the industry like hey you need more links and they do like it like

need more links and they do like it like need more links and they do like it like the the facts are on Google like it's

the the facts are on Google like it's the the facts are on Google like it's not like the small little sites that

not like the small little sites that not like the small little sites that have the best content or like the best

have the best content or like the best have the best content or like the best technical SEO by the way that's also

technical SEO by the way that's also technical SEO by the way that's also needed I'm not saying that's not needed

needed I'm not saying that's not needed needed I'm not saying that's not needed but it's the sites that have great

but it's the sites that have great but it's the sites that have great technical SEO great content but also

technical SEO great content but also technical SEO great content but also great a great link profile so this this

great a great link profile so this this great a great link profile so this this situation kind of made us really you

situation kind of made us really you situation kind of made us really you know and I think the whole digital PR

know and I think the whole digital PR know and I think the whole digital PR industry is booming now yeah I noticed

industry is booming now yeah I noticed industry is booming now yeah I noticed that the the UK economy increased by

that the the UK economy increased by that the the UK economy increased by 0.6% from January till March so exactly

0.6% from January till March so exactly 0.6% from January till March so exactly I know a lot of that was probably due to

I know a lot of that was probably due to I know a lot of that was probably due to your Link holding efforts your B your

your Link holding efforts your B your your Link holding efforts your B your business picking up and your clients

business picking up and your clients business picking up and your clients benefiting from it exactly exactly we we

benefiting from it exactly exactly we we benefiting from it exactly exactly we we you know we K took the UK economy out of

you know we K took the UK economy out of you know we K took the UK economy out of recession H because we sold exported so

recession H because we sold exported so recession H because we sold exported so much digital PR in the first quarter of

much digital PR in the first quarter of much digital PR in the first quarter of the Year okay I don't think I'm going to

the Year okay I don't think I'm going to the Year okay I don't think I'm going to get to all my questions because I've got

get to all my questions because I've got get to all my questions because I've got all these new questions here we're going

all these new questions here we're going all these new questions here we're going off on a t and I love it so would you

off on a t and I love it so would you off on a t and I love it so would you say that Affiliates and SAS companies

say that Affiliates and SAS companies say that Affiliates and SAS companies and everyone else that maybe if they

and everyone else that maybe if they and everyone else that maybe if they don't have the budget they should

don't have the budget they should don't have the budget they should consider investment because the the link

consider investment because the the link consider investment because the the link building and the digital PR like you

building and the digital PR like you building and the digital PR like you said you just Ed the perfect example

said you just Ed the perfect example said you just Ed the perfect example going if you don't have authority going if you don't have authority going if you don't have authority Google's looking for those signals and

Google's looking for those signals and Google's looking for those signals and if you can't build them naturally uh

if you can't build them naturally uh if you can't build them naturally uh should people be actually seriously

should people be actually seriously should people be actually seriously considering raising

considering raising considering raising I I would say you know if they don't I I would say you know if they don't I I would say you know if they don't have the money they either you know

have the money they either you know have the money they either you know invest or or they find other channels as

invest or or they find other channels as invest or or they find other channels as well like it's not just probably SEO um

well like it's not just probably SEO um well like it's not just probably SEO um for every like there are some channels

for every like there are some channels for every like there are some channels where SEO is the main driver but you

where SEO is the main driver but you where SEO is the main driver but you know maybe they want to do some other know maybe they want to do some other know maybe they want to do some other channel that are you know if they don't

channel that are you know if they don't channel that are you know if they don't have the money they can just use maybe

have the money they can just use maybe have the money they can just use maybe you know Human Resources um and just

you know Human Resources um and just you know Human Resources um and just create you know I know viral videos just

create you know I know viral videos just create you know I know viral videos just use creativity internally um instead of

use creativity internally um instead of use creativity internally um instead of you know instead of investing in SEO

you know instead of investing in SEO you know instead of investing in SEO like our company we never I never

like our company we never I never like our company we never I never invested in SEO for the main website I

invested in SEO for the main website I invested in SEO for the main website I do invest in SEO in like other websites

do invest in SEO in like other websites do invest in SEO in like other websites that I own but not for the main you know

that I own but not for the main you know that I own but not for the main you know lead generation um kind of search

lead generation um kind of search lead generation um kind of search intelligence website because we don't we

intelligence website because we don't we intelligence website because we don't we don't need that we have creativity

don't need that we have creativity don't need that we have creativity internally that yet that drives you know

internally that yet that drives you know internally that yet that drives you know Millions to our business with you know

Millions to our business with you know Millions to our business with you know parody videos and funny you know

parody videos and funny you know parody videos and funny you know sarcastic post on LinkedIn and so on so

sarcastic post on LinkedIn and so on so sarcastic post on LinkedIn and so on so so may maybe they have to find another

so may maybe they have to find another so may maybe they have to find another way if they don't have the money or if

way if they don't have the money or if way if they don't have the money or if they do want to play the game like like

they do want to play the game like like they do want to play the game like like the big like the big guys then they will

the big like the big guys then they will the big like the big guys then they will need probably to raise raise money um

need probably to raise raise money um need probably to raise raise money um indeed yes okay that's a pretty fair

indeed yes okay that's a pretty fair indeed yes okay that's a pretty fair answer because you you could have easily

answer because you you could have easily answer because you you could have easily said no you have to raise money and then

said no you have to raise money and then said no you have to raise money and then you know use that money to obviously you

you know use that money to obviously you you know use that money to obviously you know go to search intelligence but you

know go to search intelligence but you know go to search intelligence but you know my perfect example it's like you

know my perfect example it's like you know my perfect example it's like you know we're we're bootstrap company we

know we're we're bootstrap company we know we're we're bootstrap company we did raise an initial round and we've

did raise an initial round and we've did raise an initial round and we've really not had much of a budget for link

really not had much of a budget for link really not had much of a budget for link building so I said we got to get building so I said we got to get building so I said we got to get creative and and when you get creative

creative and and when you get creative creative and and when you get creative and you're desperate you will make

and you're desperate you will make and you're desperate you will make things happen yeah of course but now

things happen yeah of course but now things happen yeah of course but now when I see the value of this I'm like

when I see the value of this I'm like when I see the value of this I'm like well maybe we should actually do another

well maybe we should actually do another well maybe we should actually do another round so we can actually do this and

round so we can actually do this and round so we can actually do this and that was actually another one of my that was actually another one of my that was actually another one of my questions um what would you say a SAS

questions um what would you say a SAS questions um what would you say a SAS company should maybe consider putting

company should maybe consider putting company should maybe consider putting aside for not just like an SEO

aside for not just like an SEO aside for not just like an SEO consultant whether it's um whether you

consultant whether it's um whether you consultant whether it's um whether you Outsource it or you do in-house but also

Outsource it or you do in-house but also Outsource it or you do in-house but also a link building budget I think you

a link building budget I think you a link building budget I think you mentioned previously you said like a

mentioned previously you said like a mentioned previously you said like a million's not a big deal like for over a

million's not a big deal like for over a million's not a big deal like for over a year year year year yeah well it depends on the stage

year yeah well it depends on the stage year yeah well it depends on the stage where the company is at right so if it's

where the company is at right so if it's where the company is at right so if it's like a well established SAS company yeah

like a well established SAS company yeah like a well established SAS company yeah go for the million a year right and but

go for the million a year right and but go for the million a year right and but if it's a smaller one like like most of

if it's a smaller one like like most of if it's a smaller one like like most of them are right most of the SAS

them are right most of the SAS them are right most of the SAS businesses are like small businesses

businesses are like small businesses businesses are like small businesses almost making no profits because they

almost making no profits because they almost making no profits because they just burn burn money back into product

just burn burn money back into product just burn burn money back into product development or or or whatever right or

development or or or whatever right or development or or or whatever right or or they have just developed the product or they have just developed the product or they have just developed the product but but they still you know they still but but they still you know they still but but they still you know they still don't have enough traction with ARR

don't have enough traction with ARR don't have enough traction with ARR um and I think it depends they can they

um and I think it depends they can they um and I think it depends they can they can have you know budgets of like 2,000s

can have you know budgets of like 2,000s can have you know budgets of like 2,000s and they can start with gas blogs they

and they can start with gas blogs they and they can start with gas blogs they don't have to start with digital PR they don't have to start with digital PR they don't have to start with digital PR they can start like gas blocks if they have

can start like gas blocks if they have can start like gas blocks if they have lower budget until they start getting

lower budget until they start getting lower budget until they start getting subraction

subraction subraction um or or they can have you know I think

um or or they can have you know I think um or or they can have you know I think a healthy budget would be probably 10 15

a healthy budget would be probably 10 15 a healthy budget would be probably 10 15 grand where they do you know one digital

grand where they do you know one digital grand where they do you know one digital PR campaign a month and then they do PR campaign a month and then they do PR campaign a month and then they do some other link building as well like some other link building as well like some other link building as well like guest blocks and so on um I think any

guest blocks and so on um I think any guest blocks and so on um I think any any budget would would just get get them

any budget would would just get get them any budget would would just get get them hope would would have the chance to get

hope would would have the chance to get hope would would have the chance to get them traction so be they have to be very

them traction so be they have to be very them traction so be they have to be very careful when they invest in anything and

careful when they invest in anything and careful when they invest in anything and even in SEO because um the only the only

even in SEO because um the only the only even in SEO because um the only the only thing to guarantee you know clicks as

thing to guarantee you know clicks as thing to guarantee you know clicks as sales um is bpc and maybe not even that

sales um is bpc and maybe not even that sales um is bpc and maybe not even that but with SEO you might invest you know

but with SEO you might invest you know but with SEO you might invest you know half a million pounds and you might not

half a million pounds and you might not half a million pounds and you might not have you know the growth that you have you know the growth that you have you know the growth that you expected because it's not just the links

expected because it's not just the links expected because it's not just the links it's not just you know it's also the

it's not just you know it's also the it's not just you know it's also the competitors so it's not just you as a

competitors so it's not just you as a competitors so it's not just you as a factor in you know your the rankings on

factor in you know your the rankings on factor in you know your the rankings on the website it's not just what you do on

the website it's not just what you do on the website it's not just what you do on your website that's the factor which by

your website that's the factor which by your website that's the factor which by the way those are like very complex

the way those are like very complex the way those are like very complex factors like not just link building but

factors like not just link building but factors like not just link building but link building combined with technical

link building combined with technical link building combined with technical SEO and with h you know like proper

SEO and with h you know like proper SEO and with h you know like proper topical clusters like well written you

topical clusters like well written you topical clusters like well written you know content and well serving the search

know content and well serving the search know content and well serving the search intent well so that's just the onsite

intent well so that's just the onsite intent well so that's just the onsite factors where you invest maybe I know

factors where you invest maybe I know factors where you invest maybe I know half a million a year but it's not just

half a million a year but it's not just half a million a year but it's not just that that that that's not going to guarantee anything

that's not going to guarantee anything that's not going to guarantee anything what what if all your competitors will

what what if all your competitors will what what if all your competitors will invest another million instead of a half

invest another million instead of a half invest another million instead of a half a million so then your half a million

a million so then your half a million a million so then your half a million pounds um becomes like a small budget

pounds um becomes like a small budget pounds um becomes like a small budget and then yes you invested money but then

and then yes you invested money but then and then yes you invested money but then you didn't consider that your you didn't consider that your you didn't consider that your competitors also invest money so you

competitors also invest money so you competitors also invest money so you maybe you move the needle a little bit

maybe you move the needle a little bit maybe you move the needle a little bit or like you move the needle but your or like you move the needle but your or like you move the needle but your competitors move the needle more and competitors move the needle more and competitors move the needle more and they push you down so any investment

they push you down so any investment they push you down so any investment into SEO into SEO into SEO uh should be you know taken as as

uh should be you know taken as as uh should be you know taken as as something that's you know that's got

something that's you know that's got something that's you know that's got chances and got lots of chances to win

chances and got lots of chances to win chances and got lots of chances to win but it should not be like Oh I'm going but it should not be like Oh I'm going but it should not be like Oh I'm going to invest This and like 100% I'm going

to invest This and like 100% I'm going to invest This and like 100% I'm going to you know smash it because it's not

to you know smash it because it's not to you know smash it because it's not the case even with with any big

the case even with with any big the case even with with any big website I'm from a lot of my competition

website I'm from a lot of my competition website I'm from a lot of my competition I don't think a lot of them are actually I don't think a lot of them are actually I don't think a lot of them are actually doing substantial digital PR which for

doing substantial digital PR which for doing substantial digital PR which for me if I in if we decide to invest in

me if I in if we decide to invest in me if I in if we decide to invest in that space I think it becomes a big that space I think it becomes a big that space I think it becomes a big advantage and I actually think most of

advantage and I actually think most of advantage and I actually think most of them aren't always paying attention to

them aren't always paying attention to them aren't always paying attention to my podcast so uh might be an advantage

my podcast so uh might be an advantage my podcast so uh might be an advantage but I'm I'm thinking out loud if we

but I'm I'm thinking out loud if we but I'm I'm thinking out loud if we started doing this let's say one or two

started doing this let's say one or two started doing this let's say one or two years ago my opinion is and I want your

years ago my opinion is and I want your years ago my opinion is and I want your take on it maybe we'd be in a different

take on it maybe we'd be in a different take on it maybe we'd be in a different position because it'd be a lot of money

position because it'd be a lot of money position because it'd be a lot of money to invest so it'd be like okay that's a

to invest so it'd be like okay that's a to invest so it'd be like okay that's a deficit let's say we rais money for it

deficit let's say we rais money for it deficit let's say we rais money for it but if we ever wanted companies like the

but if we ever wanted companies like the but if we ever wanted companies like the bigger companies that could either bigger companies that could either bigger companies that could either potentially acquire us I think we've not

potentially acquire us I think we've not potentially acquire us I think we've not been on the radar yet and we're just

been on the radar yet and we're just been on the radar yet and we're just starting to get on the radar from the

starting to get on the radar from the starting to get on the radar from the podcast and social media and intros but

podcast and social media and intros but podcast and social media and intros but I'm wondering if we did all the stuff I'm wondering if we did all the stuff I'm wondering if we did all the stuff early on we would have been more top of

early on we would have been more top of early on we would have been more top of mine we might have actually had bigger

mine we might have actually had bigger mine we might have actually had bigger customers come on board earlier and

customers come on board earlier and customers come on board earlier and maybe it would have been the best maybe it would have been the best maybe it would have been the best investment to plant the seed which we'd

investment to plant the seed which we'd investment to plant the seed which we'd have like you know a full Garden today

have like you know a full Garden today have like you know a full Garden today is is organic the organic Channel a good

is is organic the organic Channel a good is is organic the organic Channel a good main AC acquisition channel for you like

main AC acquisition channel for you like main AC acquisition channel for you like is it a good AC like a good client um

is it a good AC like a good client um is it a good AC like a good client um generating channel oh that's a good

generating channel oh that's a good generating channel oh that's a good question um I think the podcast is

question um I think the podcast is question um I think the podcast is helping quite a bit LinkedIn for sure is

helping quite a bit LinkedIn for sure is helping quite a bit LinkedIn for sure is personally helping quite a bit I know

personally helping quite a bit I know personally helping quite a bit I know I'm connecting with a lot of people

I'm connecting with a lot of people I'm connecting with a lot of people going to conferences and just being top

going to conferences and just being top going to conferences and just being top of mind and we're very aware of the

of mind and we're very aware of the of mind and we're very aware of the bottom of funnel content that's starting

bottom of funnel content that's starting bottom of funnel content that's starting to work and we've realized we need to

to work and we've realized we need to to work and we've realized we need to tap into it more what's weird is like as

tap into it more what's weird is like as tap into it more what's weird is like as soon as we started saying US versus our

soon as we started saying US versus our soon as we started saying US versus our competitors and actively naming them

competitors and actively naming them competitors and actively naming them it's actually seemed to flip a switch

it's actually seemed to flip a switch it's actually seemed to flip a switch people started trusting us more because people started trusting us more because people started trusting us more because like oh you're not afraid to talk about

like oh you're not afraid to talk about like oh you're not afraid to talk about your competition and then we started

your competition and then we started your competition and then we started realizing well what keywords do

realizing well what keywords do realizing well what keywords do Affiliates actually care about and I'll

Affiliates actually care about and I'll Affiliates actually care about and I'll give you an example example so we give you an example example so we give you an example example so we started talking about how to connect the

started talking about how to connect the started talking about how to connect the API of affiliate programs to get your

API of affiliate programs to get your API of affiliate programs to get your data from there well we do that as a

data from there well we do that as a data from there well we do that as a service but people were actually looking

service but people were actually looking service but people were actually looking for it to do it on their own and they're for it to do it on their own and they're for it to do it on their own and they're like yeah we had no idea you existed so

like yeah we had no idea you existed so like yeah we had no idea you existed so my research says that Affiliates are

my research says that Affiliates are my research says that Affiliates are problem aware but not solution aware and

problem aware but not solution aware and problem aware but not solution aware and maybe we're going to get into a a

maybe we're going to get into a a maybe we're going to get into a a potential client discuss discussion here

potential client discuss discussion here potential client discuss discussion here where I think maybe one or two% of

where I think maybe one or two% of where I think maybe one or two% of Affiliates worldwide will use a stats

Affiliates worldwide will use a stats Affiliates worldwide will use a stats app like us or our competitors but

app like us or our competitors but app like us or our competitors but simply put the 99% of the business have

simply put the 99% of the business have simply put the 99% of the business have no idea like we're affiliate stats

no idea like we're affiliate stats no idea like we're affiliate stats aggregator you're not searching for that

aggregator you're not searching for that aggregator you're not searching for that it's yeah it's it's a mouthful and even

it's yeah it's it's a mouthful and even it's yeah it's it's a mouthful and even if we use affiliate CRM it's like well

if we use affiliate CRM it's like well if we use affiliate CRM it's like well what is that I I still don't come to you

what is that I I still don't come to you what is that I I still don't come to you guys and say here's my problem I'm GNA

guys and say here's my problem I'm GNA guys and say here's my problem I'm GNA search for affiliate CRM to solve it

search for affiliate CRM to solve it search for affiliate CRM to solve it problem aware not solution aware indeed

problem aware not solution aware indeed problem aware not solution aware indeed indeed so if you come if you come up

indeed so if you come if you come up indeed so if you come if you come up with solution content right um you

with solution content right um you with solution content right um you you'll grab lots of eyeballs and lots of

you'll grab lots of eyeballs and lots of you'll grab lots of eyeballs and lots of you know you'll build brand

you know you'll build brand you know you'll build brand um yeah with with like through the

um yeah with with like through the um yeah with with like through the organic

organic organic channel so yes if you would have started

channel so yes if you would have started channel so yes if you would have started may maybe you would would be you know

may maybe you would would be you know may maybe you would would be you know um May maybe you would be you know like

um May maybe you would be you know like um May maybe you would be you know like way ahead but uh um yeah I mean you

way ahead but uh um yeah I mean you way ahead but uh um yeah I mean you would have been more ahead if you would

would have been more ahead if you would would have been more ahead if you would have started you know like a more

have started you know like a more have started you know like a more aggressive content creation and Link

aggressive content creation and Link aggressive content creation and Link building not just you know our digital building not just you know our digital building not just you know our digital PR like anyone's digital PR but also

PR like anyone's digital PR but also PR like anyone's digital PR but also other types of Link building as well

other types of Link building as well other types of Link building as well yeah we're looking at putting together

yeah we're looking at putting together yeah we're looking at putting together the the budget for stepping on the gas

the the budget for stepping on the gas the the budget for stepping on the gas for Content uh stepping on the gas for

for Content uh stepping on the gas for for Content uh stepping on the gas for the digital PR um so that actually leads

the digital PR um so that actually leads the digital PR um so that actually leads to another question I and I wrote this

to another question I and I wrote this to another question I and I wrote this down as multiple notes what can we do as

down as multiple notes what can we do as down as multiple notes what can we do as a company so if we wanted to be a

a company so if we wanted to be a a company so if we wanted to be a customer of yours and say we want to do

customer of yours and say we want to do customer of yours and say we want to do digital PR but we want the maximum

digital PR but we want the maximum digital PR but we want the maximum effect I I think you mentioned

effect I I think you mentioned effect I I think you mentioned creativity and data so what can we do to

creativity and data so what can we do to creativity and data so what can we do to make your job easier whether it's easier

make your job easier whether it's easier make your job easier whether it's easier or maximizing the impact

or maximizing the impact or maximizing the impact so just stay out of our way stand out of

so just stay out of our way stand out of so just stay out of our way stand out of our way that's that's that's that's what

our way that's that's that's that's what our way that's that's that's that's what our clients can do as

our clients can do as our clients can do as easiest

easiest easiest um the the the most difficult um

um the the the most difficult um um the the the most difficult um campaigns are when the client wants to

campaigns are when the client wants to campaigns are when the client wants to get involved too much and they think uh

get involved too much and they think uh get involved too much and they think uh you know they know their industry and

you know they know their industry and you know they know their industry and they do know their industry better than they do know their industry better than they do know their industry better than us but but the success of a digital play

us but but the success of a digital play us but but the success of a digital play Campaign is not predicated on how well

Campaign is not predicated on how well Campaign is not predicated on how well you know the industry it's predicated on

you know the industry it's predicated on you know the industry it's predicated on how well you know the news

how well you know the news how well you know the news agenda and and and that's that's the

agenda and and and that's that's the agenda and and and that's that's the most important thing so um when like we

most important thing so um when like we most important thing so um when like we don't have that too much now we still

don't have that too much now we still don't have that too much now we still have you know some cases where we have

have you know some cases where we have have you know some cases where we have to go in like more meetings and explain

to go in like more meetings and explain to go in like more meetings and explain but initially when when I was not as

but initially when when I was not as but initially when when I was not as good at at explaining at the onboarding

good at at explaining at the onboarding good at at explaining at the onboarding you know stage to the client that hey

you know stage to the client that hey you know stage to the client that hey you know if you are a mat a client that

you know if you are a mat a client that you know if you are a mat a client that sells mattresses we are not going to

sells mattresses we are not going to sells mattresses we are not going to talk about mattresses

talk about mattresses talk about mattresses because nobody ever writes every week or

because nobody ever writes every week or because nobody ever writes every week or every month about mattresses we talk

every month about mattresses we talk every month about mattresses we talk about sleep which is not exactly about

about sleep which is not exactly about about sleep which is not exactly about your products or not like super product

your products or not like super product your products or not like super product relevant but it's about the niche as a

relevant but it's about the niche as a relevant but it's about the niche as a whole and when we explain the this to

whole and when we explain the this to whole and when we explain the this to clients and we tell them just stand out

clients and we tell them just stand out clients and we tell them just stand out of our way we'll launch campaigns about

of our way we'll launch campaigns about of our way we'll launch campaigns about the Sleep Niche you know how to get your

the Sleep Niche you know how to get your the Sleep Niche you know how to get your kids to fall asleep how often you should

kids to fall asleep how often you should kids to fall asleep how often you should wash your bed sheets how you know how to

wash your bed sheets how you know how to wash your bed sheets how you know how to fall asleep um you know a heat wve and

fall asleep um you know a heat wve and fall asleep um you know a heat wve and so on then we immediately have a fast

so on then we immediately have a fast so on then we immediately have a fast lane approach to digital PR otherwise um

lane approach to digital PR otherwise um lane approach to digital PR otherwise um if they say the client said well I want

if they say the client said well I want if they say the client said well I want you know all of my legal team and all

you know all of my legal team and all you know all of my legal team and all all of our compliance and all of our

all of our compliance and all of our all of our compliance and all of our five editors and everyone to approve you

five editors and everyone to approve you five editors and everyone to approve you know the email that goes out to to

know the email that goes out to to know the email that goes out to to journalists and and by the way we still

journalists and and by the way we still journalists and and by the way we still have a few of these clients are like

have a few of these clients are like have a few of these clients are like okay let's go in a meeting and let's okay let's go in a meeting and let's okay let's go in a meeting and let's just explain again we will not get the

just explain again we will not get the just explain again we will not get the links if we if we try to be you know per

links if we if we try to be you know per links if we if we try to be you know per like the email

like the email like the email should be per perfectly following our

should be per perfectly following our should be per perfectly following our tone of voice like nobody cares about

tone of voice like nobody cares about tone of voice like nobody cares about that right so the easiest way for a

that right so the easiest way for a that right so the easiest way for a client to you know en ensure the

client to you know en ensure the client to you know en ensure the campaigns are successful is just St stay

campaigns are successful is just St stay campaigns are successful is just St stay out of our way and and trust us we have

out of our way and and trust us we have out of our way and and trust us we have you know B Kingdom .co.uk they've been

you know B Kingdom .co.uk they've been you know B Kingdom .co.uk they've been with us for like I think almost three with us for like I think almost three with us for like I think almost three years now they just stood out of our way

years now they just stood out of our way years now they just stood out of our way if you look at their charts they they

if you look at their charts they they if you look at their charts they they are dominating now we we get we got them

are dominating now we we get we got them are dominating now we we get we got them like hundreds and hundreds of links

like hundreds and hundreds of links like hundreds and hundreds of links because we could just just execute

because we could just just execute because we could just just execute without having to be afraid of you know

without having to be afraid of you know without having to be afraid of you know their editorial team you know

their editorial team you know their editorial team you know micromanaging the emails and you know

micromanaging the emails and you know micromanaging the emails and you know it's it's not the client's fault they do

it's it's not the client's fault they do it's it's not the client's fault they do that it's my fault it's our fault

that it's my fault it's our fault that it's my fault it's our fault because we don't I didn't I wasn't good

because we don't I didn't I wasn't good because we don't I didn't I wasn't good enough at the sales you know in the

enough at the sales you know in the enough at the sales you know in the sales meeting to explain to them and set

sales meeting to explain to them and set sales meeting to explain to them and set the right expectations so the clients

the right expectations so the clients the right expectations so the clients you know could us to them they just you

you know could us to them they just you you know could us to them they just you know want to do they just want to do know want to do they just want to do know want to do they just want to do what they think is best and it's on me

what they think is best and it's on me what they think is best and it's on me to actually you know make sure this to actually you know make sure this to actually you know make sure this doesn't happen down the line

doesn't happen down the line doesn't happen down the line now what if that client was saying okay

now what if that client was saying okay now what if that client was saying okay they're doing their own research and they're doing their own research and they're doing their own research and they come up with like a sleep study and

they come up with like a sleep study and they come up with like a sleep study and they said we have all this unique data

they said we have all this unique data they said we have all this unique data and they gave it back to you would that

and they gave it back to you would that and they gave it back to you would that be the only example where it actually be

be the only example where it actually be be the only example where it actually be helpful it would be helpful but we would

helpful it would be helpful but we would helpful it would be helpful but we would not guarantee that we would cover it we not guarantee that we would cover it we not guarantee that we would cover it we would use it for a campaign we would

would use it for a campaign we would would use it for a campaign we would take it and we would analyze it in the

take it and we would analyze it in the take it and we would analyze it in the team say you know we got this you know

team say you know we got this you know team say you know we got this you know great study from the client do you think

great study from the client do you think great study from the client do you think it's got a potential in the next you it's got a potential in the next you it's got a potential in the next you know two months to get some links to the

know two months to get some links to the know two months to get some links to the client because you know they paid for client because you know they paid for client because you know they paid for the invoice um

the invoice um the invoice um and and we might say yes this is great

and and we might say yes this is great and and we might say yes this is great we can add you know this angle and that

we can add you know this angle and that we can add you know this angle and that angle and that angle to it or we can

angle and that angle to it or we can angle and that angle to it or we can just say well I don't think this is

just say well I don't think this is just say well I don't think this is newsworthy enough for us to be able to

newsworthy enough for us to be able to newsworthy enough for us to be able to guarantee for the links okay because

guarantee for the links okay because guarantee for the links okay because that's the thing you know the risk is on

that's the thing you know the risk is on that's the thing you know the risk is on us if we don't get the links we'll have

us if we don't get the links we'll have us if we don't get the links we'll have to work for free and lose money on the

to work for free and lose money on the to work for free and lose money on the campaigns which by by the way we do if

campaigns which by by the way we do if campaigns which by by the way we do if we choose the ideas if we choose the

we choose the ideas if we choose the we choose the ideas if we choose the campaigns then the risk is on us if we

campaigns then the risk is on us if we campaigns then the risk is on us if we don't get the links I'm sorry you know

don't get the links I'm sorry you know don't get the links I'm sorry you know we'll launch new campaigns free of

we'll launch new campaigns free of we'll launch new campaigns free of charge but if the client wants to

charge but if the client wants to charge but if the client wants to control you know the the topic and the

control you know the the topic and the control you know the the topic and the idea then how can we have the risk and

idea then how can we have the risk and idea then how can we have the risk and then have no control over what we launch

then have no control over what we launch then have no control over what we launch right so maybe a perfect scenario would

right so maybe a perfect scenario would right so maybe a perfect scenario would be to say okay hey we've got this data

be to say okay hey we've got this data be to say okay hey we've got this data we we share it over to you and if you

we we share it over to you and if you we we share it over to you and if you say you don't want to use it then it's say you don't want to use it then it's say you don't want to use it then it's like well we know where we can use it on

like well we know where we can use it on like well we know where we can use it on the channels that we have influence on

the channels that we have influence on the channels that we have influence on like for example my industry or that I

like for example my industry or that I like for example my industry or that I gave that example of like you know the gave that example of like you know the gave that example of like you know the the my Affiliates covering that unique the my Affiliates covering that unique the my Affiliates covering that unique data set I'm like yeah would a would an

data set I'm like yeah would a would an data set I'm like yeah would a would an a journalist actually cover that maybe

a journalist actually cover that maybe a journalist actually cover that maybe not but maybe someone very deep in

not but maybe someone very deep in not but maybe someone very deep in affiliate marketing or I gaming would

affiliate marketing or I gaming would affiliate marketing or I gaming would yeah yeah indeed indeed and and that's

yeah yeah indeed indeed and and that's yeah yeah indeed indeed and and that's that's all right but we also have you

that's all right but we also have you that's all right but we also have you know just one client just came to us two

know just one client just came to us two know just one client just came to us two days ago they said they wanton an award

days ago they said they wanton an award days ago they said they wanton an award and they want you know just like to

and they want you know just like to and they want you know just like to distribute It Wide so we can say yes you

distribute It Wide so we can say yes you distribute It Wide so we can say yes you know if you provide us with the you know

know if you provide us with the you know know if you provide us with the you know with the content we can put it in our

with the content we can put it in our with the content we can put it in our you know alien system and we can you know alien system and we can you know alien system and we can distribute it so that's also an option

distribute it so that's also an option distribute it so that's also an option for you know some of our cents who want

for you know some of our cents who want for you know some of our cents who want to have their own stories we can just

to have their own stories we can just to have their own stories we can just you know distribute them at a lower

you know distribute them at a lower you know distribute them at a lower price but with no links and not like no

price but with no links and not like no price but with no links and not like no placements guarantee we you say We'll

placements guarantee we you say We'll placements guarantee we you say We'll maximize the Outreach as much as you

maximize the Outreach as much as you maximize the Outreach as much as you know anyone can do but we do not

know anyone can do but we do not know anyone can do but we do not guarantee for you know any placements

guarantee for you know any placements guarantee for you know any placements with you with your case study so that's

with you with your case study so that's with you with your case study so that's also doable yeah okay so I'm going to go

also doable yeah okay so I'm going to go also doable yeah okay so I'm going to go another tangent but it's still on point

another tangent but it's still on point another tangent but it's still on point uh I gaming business which is a

uh I gaming business which is a uh I gaming business which is a conference in the igaming industry and

conference in the igaming industry and conference in the igaming industry and they do events for Affiliates and they

they do events for Affiliates and they they do events for Affiliates and they got a their own blog um they told me

got a their own blog um they told me got a their own blog um they told me that they're always hungry for data

that they're always hungry for data that they're always hungry for data because data leads to stories and

because data leads to stories and because data leads to stories and they're like whatever you can do like

they're like whatever you can do like they're like whatever you can do like that example where I gave before about that example where I gave before about that example where I gave before about like you know all the the top affiliate

like you know all the the top affiliate like you know all the the top affiliate software in igaming they're like we want

software in igaming they're like we want software in igaming they're like we want that and more of it and if you could

that and more of it and if you could that and more of it and if you could give us that we'll basically spin

give us that we'll basically spin give us that we'll basically spin content around it all day and they

content around it all day and they content around it all day and they basically said stuff like this just basically said stuff like this just basically said stuff like this just resonates like the furthest for Their

resonates like the furthest for Their resonates like the furthest for Their audience um would you say like this is

audience um would you say like this is audience um would you say like this is kind of like more Niche or a good

kind of like more Niche or a good kind of like more Niche or a good example of going well this is an idea of

example of going well this is an idea of example of going well this is an idea of how it can actually be Amplified across

how it can actually be Amplified across how it can actually be Amplified across any channel yeah I think I think that is

any channel yeah I think I think that is any channel yeah I think I think that is you know more more Niche because the

you know more more Niche because the you know more more Niche because the normal news outlets like you know New normal news outlets like you know New normal news outlets like you know New York Post or or you know the daily mail

York Post or or you know the daily mail York Post or or you know the daily mail or Express uh which which is you know

or Express uh which which is you know or Express uh which which is you know our main pool of you know uh news

our main pool of you know uh news our main pool of you know uh news outlets that we that we target with our

outlets that we that we target with our outlets that we that we target with our pitches they would not they would not

pitches they would not they would not pitches they would not they would not cover you know they would not cover that

cover you know they would not cover that cover you know they would not cover that consistently so they might cover it once

consistently so they might cover it once consistently so they might cover it once a year but but for us because you know

a year but but for us because you know a year but but for us because you know we have to deliver a campaign in like

we have to deliver a campaign in like we have to deliver a campaign in like two or three months we cannot rely on

two or three months we cannot rely on two or three months we cannot rely on like maybe they will cover it six seven

like maybe they will cover it six seven like maybe they will cover it six seven months down the line when some event is

months down the line when some event is months down the line when some event is happening we right so it's it's too

happening we right so it's it's too happening we right so it's it's too Niche for for it to be used as a you

Niche for for it to be used as a you Niche for for it to be used as a you know regular PR campaign but but it it

know regular PR campaign but but it it know regular PR campaign but but it it can be you know if you pitch it to um

can be you know if you pitch it to um can be you know if you pitch it to um you know if if you use it as you said

you know if if you use it as you said you know if if you use it as you said for another you know type of of you know

for another you know type of of you know for another you know type of of you know kind of Outreach that's targeting more

kind of Outreach that's targeting more kind of Outreach that's targeting more specific uh kind of Industries then yeah

specific uh kind of Industries then yeah specific uh kind of Industries then yeah you can you can do that all right two

you can you can do that all right two you can you can do that all right two more questions do you have more room for

more questions do you have more room for more questions do you have more room for another client like me for

another client like me for another client like me for example yeah we we do we do the start

example yeah we we do we do the start example yeah we we do we do the start date now is 15 days from the invoice

date now is 15 days from the invoice date now is 15 days from the invoice payment date so even today I had a

payment date so even today I had a payment date so even today I had a meeting and I said to it was an i gaming

meeting and I said to it was an i gaming meeting and I said to it was an i gaming client by the way uh crypto gaming

client by the way uh crypto gaming client by the way uh crypto gaming um anyone who pays you know anyone who

um anyone who pays you know anyone who um anyone who pays you know anyone who joins today we start the work 15 days um

joins today we start the work 15 days um joins today we start the work 15 days um from now and then the delivery is about

from now and then the delivery is about from now and then the delivery is about um 8 to 12 weeks so it can be you know

um 8 to 12 weeks so it can be you know um 8 to 12 weeks so it can be you know two and a half to it can be earlier but

two and a half to it can be earlier but two and a half to it can be earlier but that's kind of the delivery so we do

that's kind of the delivery so we do that's kind of the delivery so we do have um room we we we hire aggressively

have um room we we we hire aggressively have um room we we we hire aggressively again we we are we are we just talking

again we we are we are we just talking again we we are we are we just talking this um this month no this week or with

this um this month no this week or with this um this month no this week or with the management team we had you know

the management team we had you know the management team we had you know multiple now we have multiple clients um

multiple now we have multiple clients um multiple now we have multiple clients um spending 70 grand or more per month with

spending 70 grand or more per month with spending 70 grand or more per month with us which which is a lot of campaigns and

us which which is a lot of campaigns and us which which is a lot of campaigns and they want to spend they want to do it they want to spend they want to do it they want to spend they want to do it for like for like for like many the other client just confirmed

many the other client just confirmed many the other client just confirmed they want to run it throughout the whole they want to run it throughout the whole they want to run it throughout the whole year with this budget so we're like we

year with this budget so we're like we year with this budget so we're like we need to keep on high we need to keep on

need to keep on high we need to keep on need to keep on high we need to keep on pushing with this like this is this is

pushing with this like this is this is pushing with this like this is this is crazy so we do have capacity but you

crazy so we do have capacity but you crazy so we do have capacity but you know it's we have a staggered kind of

know it's we have a staggered kind of know it's we have a staggered kind of start date yeah well it's a good problem

start date yeah well it's a good problem start date yeah well it's a good problem to have so um I've noticed the the trend

to have so um I've noticed the the trend to have so um I've noticed the the trend on the LinkedIn profile for search

on the LinkedIn profile for search on the LinkedIn profile for search intelligence it was like five five

intelligence it was like five five intelligence it was like five five people per quarter the last two years

people per quarter the last two years people per quarter the last two years yeah yeah and those are the people who

yeah yeah and those are the people who yeah yeah and those are the people who report that they work at at search

report that they work at at search report that they work at at search Intelligence on LinkedIn so we have way

Intelligence on LinkedIn so we have way Intelligence on LinkedIn so we have way more uh that but that but that's kind of

more uh that but that but that's kind of more uh that but that but that's kind of an accurate kind of trend we we did you

an accurate kind of trend we we did you an accurate kind of trend we we did you know we do hire um we had months when we

know we do hire um we had months when we know we do hire um we had months when we hired 15 people um or like 10 people

hired 15 people um or like 10 people hired 15 people um or like 10 people so but it comes with you know with the

so but it comes with you know with the so but it comes with you know with the pains as well you know we the hyper

pains as well you know we the hyper pains as well you know we the hyper growth we don't we don't make you know growth we don't we don't make you know growth we don't we don't make you know big profits and I always say this in you

big profits and I always say this in you big profits and I always say this in you know in podcast we we are focusing on

know in podcast we we are focusing on know in podcast we we are focusing on growth when you when you hire then you

growth when you when you hire then you growth when you when you hire then you need to invest in your systems invest in

need to invest in your systems invest in need to invest in your systems invest in in in training invest in lots of you

in in training invest in lots of you in in training invest in lots of you know it requires the money to go back

know it requires the money to go back know it requires the money to go back into the business so we are operating on

into the business so we are operating on into the business so we are operating on like almost no profit margin now

like almost no profit margin now like almost no profit margin now deliberately uh but but that's that's

deliberately uh but but that's that's deliberately uh but but that's that's the price of hyperscaling and know just

the price of hyperscaling and know just the price of hyperscaling and know just growing growing growing growing growing growing growing yeah no that makes sense

growing yeah no that makes sense growing yeah no that makes sense actually there's one question we didn't actually there's one question we didn't actually there's one question we didn't get to but I kind of want to ask it and

get to but I kind of want to ask it and get to but I kind of want to ask it and I had a chance to talk with one of the

I had a chance to talk with one of the I had a chance to talk with one of the biggest gambling Affiliates in the

biggest gambling Affiliates in the biggest gambling Affiliates in the industry and I said why are you one of

industry and I said why are you one of industry and I said why are you one of the top one to two people when there's

the top one to two people when there's the top one to two people when there's other companies that they're bragging to

other companies that they're bragging to other companies that they're bragging to be say I'm the 35th best and it's like

be say I'm the 35th best and it's like be say I'm the 35th best and it's like like why is that or like what is your

like why is that or like what is your like why is that or like what is your secret sauce and he his answer was like

secret sauce and he his answer was like secret sauce and he his answer was like really obscure it was like no one has a

really obscure it was like no one has a really obscure it was like no one has a long-term vision and I was driving

long-term vision and I was driving long-term vision and I was driving yesterday so this was nine months ago

yesterday so this was nine months ago yesterday so this was nine months ago and I was driving and I was listening to

and I was driving and I was listening to and I was driving and I was listening to a podcast and someone was talking about

a podcast and someone was talking about a podcast and someone was talking about they were doing something consistently

they were doing something consistently they were doing something consistently over and over again it was just over and over again it was just over and over again it was just basically a newsletter once a week basically a newsletter once a week basically a newsletter once a week they're like I never deviate from that

they're like I never deviate from that they're like I never deviate from that and he's like no one has a long-term and he's like no one has a long-term and he's like no one has a long-term Vision I was like ah like I've heard

Vision I was like ah like I've heard Vision I was like ah like I've heard this before uh what is your comment on

this before uh what is your comment on this before uh what is your comment on this

this this yeah like consistency is is key with

yeah like consistency is is key with yeah like consistency is is key with with with business and

with with business and with with business and um es I think for me it applies

um es I think for me it applies um es I think for me it applies especially for for selling so when I was

especially for for selling so when I was especially for for selling so when I was a smaller you know company and when we

a smaller you know company and when we a smaller you know company and when we were like a smaller company and I was

were like a smaller company and I was were like a smaller company and I was just me and another you know two one or

just me and another you know two one or just me and another you know two one or two people I had problems with you know

two people I had problems with you know two people I had problems with you know with the long-term Vision because once I

with the long-term Vision because once I with the long-term Vision because once I sold and we got like I know 10 grand in

sold and we got like I know 10 grand in sold and we got like I know 10 grand in back then it was it was a good you know

back then it was it was a good you know back then it was it was a good you know good budget then I stopped selling I

good budget then I stopped selling I good budget then I stopped selling I stopped marketing because now we have

stopped marketing because now we have stopped marketing because now we have some money and then let's wait until the some money and then let's wait until the some money and then let's wait until the money wears out and then you know let's

money wears out and then you know let's money wears out and then you know let's keep on selling again so I think

keep on selling again so I think keep on selling again so I think consistency is key for everything like

consistency is key for everything like consistency is key for everything like for me consistency was you know just

for me consistency was you know just for me consistency was you know just keep on keep on getting clients on board

keep on keep on getting clients on board keep on keep on getting clients on board keep on keep on selling keep on creating

keep on keep on selling keep on creating keep on keep on selling keep on creating interesting content keep on being out

interesting content keep on being out interesting content keep on being out there and consistency kind of made made

there and consistency kind of made made there and consistency kind of made made us Millions because and posting on

us Millions because and posting on us Millions because and posting on LinkedIn every day and good content

LinkedIn every day and good content LinkedIn every day and good content content that you actually put effort in

content that you actually put effort in content that you actually put effort in even just to you know to come up with

even just to you know to come up with even just to you know to come up with like you know the um the BBC kind of you

like you know the um the BBC kind of you like you know the um the BBC kind of you know announced that you know the UK is

know announced that you know the UK is know announced that you know the UK is out of recession and then I came up with

out of recession and then I came up with out of recession and then I came up with like oh it was us that that requires

like oh it was us that that requires like oh it was us that that requires effort to sit down and think and think

effort to sit down and think and think effort to sit down and think and think and think so content like that um posted

and think so content like that um posted and think so content like that um posted every day is kind of what I can call

every day is kind of what I can call every day is kind of what I can call consistency and that I think that made

consistency and that I think that made consistency and that I think that made that made us who we are so far and very

that made us who we are so far and very that made us who we are so far and very quickly what do you see of the future of

quickly what do you see of the future of quickly what do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as it intersects

affiliate marketing as it intersects affiliate marketing as it intersects with business

intelligence maybe search intelligence intelligence maybe search intelligence yes yes yes yes yes so I mean it's going

yes yes yes yes yes so I mean it's going yes yes yes yes yes so I mean it's going to be more and more important I think AI

to be more and more important I think AI to be more and more important I think AI will play a massive role in in this you

will play a massive role in in this you will play a massive role in in this you know business intelligence and and

know business intelligence and and know business intelligence and and affiliate marketing I think AI will

affiliate marketing I think AI will affiliate marketing I think AI will change everything like all the you know

change everything like all the you know change everything like all the you know analysis all the insights that you have

analysis all the insights that you have analysis all the insights that you have from from from data it should not be a human who

data it should not be a human who data it should not be a human who analyzes and summarizes and and comes

analyzes and summarizes and and comes analyzes and summarizes and and comes comes up with you know um kind of the

comes up with you know um kind of the comes up with you know um kind of the assessment of the of the data I think AI

assessment of the of the data I think AI assessment of the of the data I think AI should do the first you know leg work

should do the first you know leg work should do the first you know leg work and then the human should take over from

and then the human should take over from and then the human should take over from there I think AI is going to be a

there I think AI is going to be a there I think AI is going to be a massive massive Game Changer in the massive massive Game Changer in the massive massive Game Changer in the industry like a big one anyone who is

industry like a big one anyone who is industry like a big one anyone who is not investing in Ai and software systems

not investing in Ai and software systems not investing in Ai and software systems that combine you know a open Ai apis and

that combine you know a open Ai apis and that combine you know a open Ai apis and um and all the other you know like um

um and all the other you know like um um and all the other you know like um Gemini and so on if you don't invest in

Gemini and so on if you don't invest in Gemini and so on if you don't invest in software systems uh with AI you will you

software systems uh with AI you will you software systems uh with AI you will you will die okay I'm gonna copy this clip

will die okay I'm gonna copy this clip will die okay I'm gonna copy this clip send it to my business partner and we're

send it to my business partner and we're send it to my business partner and we're gonna we're gonna talk about this uh how

gonna we're gonna talk about this uh how gonna we're gonna talk about this uh how can people get a hold of you fairy uh

can people get a hold of you fairy uh can people get a hold of you fairy uh thanks a lot for doing this so I'm gonna

thanks a lot for doing this so I'm gonna thanks a lot for doing this so I'm gonna pass it back to you thank you just just

pass it back to you thank you just just pass it back to you thank you just just you know search for my name on on on

you know search for my name on on on you know search for my name on on on Google and then you'll find LinkedIn Google and then you'll find LinkedIn Google and then you'll find LinkedIn will be the first link because that's will be the first link because that's will be the first link because that's where everyone clicks when they Google

where everyone clicks when they Google where everyone clicks when they Google me and then I'm a YouTube I'm on Twitter

me and then I'm a YouTube I'm on Twitter me and then I'm a YouTube I'm on Twitter and uh I even have a website but like

and uh I even have a website but like and uh I even have a website but like that's kind of abandoned like f.com or

that's kind of abandoned like f.com or that's kind of abandoned like f.com or the agency website search hen

the agency website search hen the agency website search hen intelligence. co.uk but yeah LinkedIn is

intelligence. co.uk but yeah LinkedIn is intelligence. co.uk but yeah LinkedIn is my is the first place to be um for me I

my is the first place to be um for me I my is the first place to be um for me I will add all of them thanks a lot for

will add all of them thanks a lot for will add all of them thanks a lot for doing this thank you for having me and

doing this thank you for having me and doing this thank you for having me and uh hopefully you know we you know we

uh hopefully you know we you know we uh hopefully you know we you know we discussed something to help somebody at

discussed something to help somebody at discussed something to help somebody at least me

least me least me indeed thank you for tuning in to the

indeed thank you for tuning in to the indeed thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to

this time to ask for a small favor to this time to ask for a small favor to leave a Reading and Review wherever you

leave a Reading and Review wherever you leave a Reading and Review wherever you listen to your podcast that helps us

listen to your podcast that helps us listen to your podcast that helps us expand our reach to rank higher in

expand our reach to rank higher in expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more

podcast directories and reach more podcast directories and reach more listeners