iGaming SEO with Sean Bianco from GainChanger

and this is like flipping the affiliate and this is like flipping the affiliate model on its head right to an extent

model on its head right to an extent model on its head right to an extent because like you speak to any affiliate

because like you speak to any affiliate because like you speak to any affiliate at least until last year and the model

at least until last year and the model at least until last year and the model is okay I want to rank on a keyword get

is okay I want to rank on a keyword get is okay I want to rank on a keyword get someone on my site and I want them to

someone on my site and I want them to someone on my site and I want them to click out as quickly as possible because

click out as quickly as possible because click out as quickly as possible because gosh darn it if they don't click out as gosh darn it if they don't click out as gosh darn it if they don't click out as quickly as as possible I'm going to end

quickly as as possible I'm going to end quickly as as possible I'm going to end up with a lower conversion rate and I

up with a lower conversion rate and I up with a lower conversion rate and I want them to select one of those sites

want them to select one of those sites want them to select one of those sites click go and then convert on that

click go and then convert on that click go and then convert on that website and then it's done right and

website and then it's done right and website and then it's done right and maybe I have some programmatic I can maybe I have some programmatic I can maybe I have some programmatic I can retarget them I do some smart stuff with

retarget them I do some smart stuff with retarget them I do some smart stuff with telecoms providers yada yada but that

telecoms providers yada yada but that telecoms providers yada yada but that was the model before but now we're going

was the model before but now we're going was the model before but now we're going to a different kind of model over time

to a different kind of model over time to a different kind of model over time we're going to an attention model and

we're going to an attention model and we're going to an attention model and realistically I mean right now what

realistically I mean right now what realistically I mean right now what would my advise advise B to Affiliates

would my advise advise B to Affiliates would my advise advise B to Affiliates um so don't just have one asset you're

um so don't just have one asset you're um so don't just have one asset you're going to have one asset do the best job

going to have one asset do the best job going to have one asset do the best job that you possibly can to build a brand

that you possibly can to build a brand that you possibly can to build a brand like from the domain name into um the

like from the domain name into um the like from the domain name into um the kind of authors and personalities that

kind of authors and personalities that kind of authors and personalities that they have and cont Day

they have and cont Day they have and cont Day ride I'm John Wright and you're

ride I'm John Wright and you're ride I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business

listening to affiliate bi the business listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by stat welcome to the Philip bi podcast

stat welcome to the Philip bi podcast stat welcome to the Philip bi podcast today we're chatting with sha Viano who

today we're chatting with sha Viano who today we're chatting with sha Viano who is the co-founder of Game Changer and he

is the co-founder of Game Changer and he is the co-founder of Game Changer and he works on product marketing SEO

works on product marketing SEO works on product marketing SEO affiliation and paid media and I know we

affiliation and paid media and I know we affiliation and paid media and I know we got lots to chat about today uh Sean

got lots to chat about today uh Sean got lots to chat about today uh Sean welcome to the show John it's a real

welcome to the show John it's a real welcome to the show John it's a real pleasure to be be here I mean we've I've

pleasure to be be here I mean we've I've pleasure to be be here I mean we've I've been seeing you online for a while then

been seeing you online for a while then been seeing you online for a while then we had the pleasure of bumping into each

we had the pleasure of bumping into each we had the pleasure of bumping into each other in person but to share some words

other in person but to share some words other in person but to share some words and it's great that we managed to get and it's great that we managed to get and it's great that we managed to get this done so quickly so glad to be here

this done so quickly so glad to be here this done so quickly so glad to be here quick turnaround but yeah it was a great

quick turnaround but yeah it was a great quick turnaround but yeah it was a great uh seeing you speak on various SEO

uh seeing you speak on various SEO uh seeing you speak on various SEO panels recently I mean I've seen your

panels recently I mean I've seen your panels recently I mean I've seen your name uh pop up over and over again so um

name uh pop up over and over again so um name uh pop up over and over again so um what what where I want to start with is

what what where I want to start with is what what where I want to start with is the conversation we had where I was

the conversation we had where I was the conversation we had where I was explaining the software that we work on

explaining the software that we work on explaining the software that we work on and I was explaining the stuff we were

and I was explaining the stuff we were and I was explaining the stuff we were trying to do in adtech and what I knew

trying to do in adtech and what I knew trying to do in adtech and what I knew was interesting was that in less than

was interesting was that in less than was interesting was that in less than five minutes you connected the dots very

five minutes you connected the dots very five minutes you connected the dots very quickly you basically said wait a minute

quickly you basically said wait a minute quickly you basically said wait a minute if this adte gets off the ground it

if this adte gets off the ground it if this adte gets off the ground it could become like the Google AdSense of

could become like the Google AdSense of could become like the Google AdSense of affiliate marketing and you know I knew

affiliate marketing and you know I knew affiliate marketing and you know I knew you had a sharp mind when you got that

you had a sharp mind when you got that you had a sharp mind when you got that in five minutes and that took us years

in five minutes and that took us years in five minutes and that took us years of iterating that idea and kind of going

of iterating that idea and kind of going of iterating that idea and kind of going where can this go like what does this where can this go like what does this where can this go like what does this look look look like yeah on you know it's it's all

like yeah on you know it's it's all like yeah on you know it's it's all about um just brainstorming and trying

about um just brainstorming and trying about um just brainstorming and trying things Bing in a lot of things and

things Bing in a lot of things and things Bing in a lot of things and seeing what could possibly work and it

seeing what could possibly work and it seeing what could possibly work and it also took me back so I mean when we

also took me back so I mean when we also took me back so I mean when we started Game Changer way back our

started Game Changer way back our started Game Changer way back our initial intention was to make it a

initial intention was to make it a initial intention was to make it a software company but we were just two

software company but we were just two software company but we were just two guys without any funding building stick

guys without any funding building stick guys without any funding building stick and stone software as I like the C you

and stone software as I like the C you and stone software as I like the C you know where you have to like go and mess know where you have to like go and mess know where you have to like go and mess with the code to get things done and

with the code to get things done and with the code to get things done and we're actually building software which

we're actually building software which we're actually building software which helped operators find Affiliates and

helped operators find Affiliates and helped operators find Affiliates and contact them and helped seos find

contact them and helped seos find contact them and helped seos find websites which could help them rank on

websites which could help them rank on websites which could help them rank on Google and contact those websites and

Google and contact those websites and Google and contact those websites and acquire backlinks from them so when we

acquire backlinks from them so when we acquire backlinks from them so when we bumped into each other and you told me

bumped into each other and you told me bumped into each other and you told me about what you're doing uh instantly it

about what you're doing uh instantly it about what you're doing uh instantly it took me back to that stage at the very

took me back to that stage at the very took me back to that stage at the very very beginning when we're starting off

very beginning when we're starting off very beginning when we're starting off um and yeah I mean back then we just

um and yeah I mean back then we just um and yeah I mean back then we just didn't have uh not only the technology

didn't have uh not only the technology didn't have uh not only the technology team but also the smarts U um and let's

team but also the smarts U um and let's team but also the smarts U um and let's say Market Intel so as soon as you

say Market Intel so as soon as you say Market Intel so as soon as you mentioned that this is something which mentioned that this is something which mentioned that this is something which you took on board and you're pushing it

you took on board and you're pushing it you took on board and you're pushing it I'm like okay so I've seen over the

I'm like okay so I've seen over the I'm like okay so I've seen over the years as we moved over to an agency okay

years as we moved over to an agency okay years as we moved over to an agency okay and that's where we focus so we are an

and that's where we focus so we are an and that's where we focus so we are an SEO agency hyper focused on

SEO agency hyper focused on SEO agency hyper focused on SEO I still had that in the back of my

SEO I still had that in the back of my SEO I still had that in the back of my mind as I saw things progressing so

mind as I saw things progressing so mind as I saw things progressing so instantly as soon as we connected number

instantly as soon as we connected number instantly as soon as we connected number one I think that you're great guys and

one I think that you're great guys and one I think that you're great guys and you're doing a fantastic job so I can

you're doing a fantastic job so I can you're doing a fantastic job so I can only put my thumbs up for what you're

only put my thumbs up for what you're only put my thumbs up for what you're doing on on STS drone it's it's it's

doing on on STS drone it's it's it's doing on on STS drone it's it's it's great and I mean even back then there

great and I mean even back then there great and I mean even back then there were people in the space I wouldn't say

were people in the space I wouldn't say were people in the space I wouldn't say that they were I mean they were good at

that they were I mean they were good at that they were I mean they were good at certain things but I wouldn't see that certain things but I wouldn't see that certain things but I wouldn't see that they were the best and there were things

they were the best and there were things they were the best and there were things that I mean even just from the

that I mean even just from the that I mean even just from the conceptual point of view that can be

conceptual point of view that can be conceptual point of view that can be done from connecting operators not with

done from connecting operators not with done from connecting operators not with affiliate but with audiences right so

affiliate but with audiences right so affiliate but with audiences right so that was the idea uh so there are those

that was the idea uh so there are those that was the idea uh so there are those Affiliates traditionally how it work the

Affiliates traditionally how it work the Affiliates traditionally how it work the speak to let's say any any operator or

speak to let's say any any operator or speak to let's say any any operator or rather they're quite difficult to get a

rather they're quite difficult to get a rather they're quite difficult to get a hold of you know and people have these

hold of you know and people have these hold of you know and people have these great websites with loads of traffic great websites with loads of traffic great websites with loads of traffic forget just you know sending out sending

forget just you know sending out sending forget just you know sending out sending out an email and getting reply it just

out an email and getting reply it just out an email and getting reply it just doesn't work that way so that's when

doesn't work that way so that's when doesn't work that way so that's when events come in personal relationships

events come in personal relationships events come in personal relationships and all of these other aspects so you

and all of these other aspects so you and all of these other aspects so you know back then it was thinking about

know back then it was thinking about know back then it was thinking about okay so we're going to be scraping to

okay so we're going to be scraping to okay so we're going to be scraping to look at collecting data help identify

look at collecting data help identify look at collecting data help identify backing that could have an impact on

backing that could have an impact on backing that could have an impact on search engines and doing a lot of work

search engines and doing a lot of work search engines and doing a lot of work around that at the same point in time

around that at the same point in time around that at the same point in time we're scraping data about or rather

we're scraping data about or rather we're scraping data about or rather collecting data rather than scraping

collecting data rather than scraping collecting data rather than scraping right I mean from different apis uh from

right I mean from different apis uh from right I mean from different apis uh from let's say uh different affiliate

let's say uh different affiliate let's say uh different affiliate websites how do we manage to connect the

websites how do we manage to connect the websites how do we manage to connect the dots between what people are looking for

dots between what people are looking for dots between what people are looking for in this data and how do we help them get

in this data and how do we help them get in this data and how do we help them get the result and then you can start look

the result and then you can start look the result and then you can start look to the audiences and when you're

to the audiences and when you're to the audiences and when you're collecting all of that data you can also

collecting all of that data you can also collecting all of that data you can also start looking into compliance and how

start looking into compliance and how start looking into compliance and how that fits in but the really really nice

that fits in but the really really nice that fits in but the really really nice thing about this is that when you have a

thing about this is that when you have a thing about this is that when you have a lot of data which I believe that you lot of data which I believe that you lot of data which I believe that you have right now I mean you have a great

have right now I mean you have a great have right now I mean you have a great power right now and you can take it any

power right now and you can take it any power right now and you can take it any which way so you can even start tracking

which way so you can even start tracking which way so you can even start tracking as an example different data points

as an example different data points as an example different data points across different uh different positions

across different uh different positions across different uh different positions of Google and trying to understand

of Google and trying to understand of Google and trying to understand different serps different languages and

different serps different languages and different serps different languages and different keywords what's having having

different keywords what's having having different keywords what's having having a positive and a negative impact on

a positive and a negative impact on a positive and a negative impact on those particular keywords and Everyone

those particular keywords and Everyone those particular keywords and Everyone likes to say they an SEO Guru by this

likes to say they an SEO Guru by this likes to say they an SEO Guru by this backlink because it has a Dr of x amount

backlink because it has a Dr of x amount backlink because it has a Dr of x amount so much traffic and so forth but in my

so much traffic and so forth but in my so much traffic and so forth but in my opinion the only real source of

opinion the only real source of opinion the only real source of information which counts is Google information which counts is Google information which counts is Google itself it's my opinion and I mean we're

itself it's my opinion and I mean we're itself it's my opinion and I mean we're just going into a rabbit hole here right

just going into a rabbit hole here right just going into a rabbit hole here right but um when we started talking I just

but um when we started talking I just but um when we started talking I just you know instantly came back to this

you know instantly came back to this you know instantly came back to this this notion which I had a while back

this notion which I had a while back this notion which I had a while back which was this system is broken okay so

which was this system is broken okay so which was this system is broken okay so it just doesn't make sense and I mean

it just doesn't make sense and I mean it just doesn't make sense and I mean I'm I'm completely focused on game Chang

I'm I'm completely focused on game Chang I'm I'm completely focused on game Chang but this is such an interesting system

but this is such an interesting system but this is such an interesting system broken system that you are solving right

broken system that you are solving right broken system that you are solving right now you know and I mean you can speak

now you know and I mean you can speak now you know and I mean you can speak for it I guess also but I mean the data

for it I guess also but I mean the data for it I guess also but I mean the data sources don't match so I imagine that

sources don't match so I imagine that sources don't match so I imagine that every single operator that you work with

every single operator that you work with every single operator that you work with has a different definition of what a

has a different definition of what a has a different definition of what a registration is or a lead or qualified

registration is or a lead or qualified registration is or a lead or qualified lead or a sales qual IED lead or an FTD

lead or a sales qual IED lead or an FTD lead or a sales qual IED lead or an FTD or it ggr is it ngr you know so like I'm

or it ggr is it ngr you know so like I'm or it ggr is it ngr you know so like I'm pretty sure that you have to deal with

pretty sure that you have to deal with pretty sure that you have to deal with with a lot of customization and I don't with a lot of customization and I don't with a lot of customization and I don't think there's one size fits all so even

think there's one size fits all so even think there's one size fits all so even the fact that you solve that problem

the fact that you solve that problem the fact that you solve that problem which matches data points on your system

which matches data points on your system which matches data points on your system as a central location versus multiple

as a central location versus multiple as a central location versus multiple systems in the background that's

systems in the background that's systems in the background that's incredible um in itself it's it's

incredible um in itself it's it's incredible um in itself it's it's something which instantly got me something which instantly got me something which instantly got me thinking that you guys are the real deal

thinking that you guys are the real deal thinking that you guys are the real deal and and and uh you know when you represent operators

uh you know when you represent operators uh you know when you represent operators and Affiliates and you're trying to milk

and Affiliates and you're trying to milk and Affiliates and you're trying to milk the most money out of it effectively I

the most money out of it effectively I the most money out of it effectively I mean it's it's kind of like the thought

mean it's it's kind of like the thought mean it's it's kind of like the thought process this is a completely broken

process this is a completely broken process this is a completely broken system you know it's a it's a power

system you know it's a it's a power system you know it's a it's a power struggle of operators complaining that

struggle of operators complaining that struggle of operators complaining that they're spending too much and they don't they're spending too much and they don't they're spending too much and they don't have profitable deal and Affiliates

have profitable deal and Affiliates have profitable deal and Affiliates saying that operators are screwing them

saying that operators are screwing them saying that operators are screwing them over right so there's no transparency

over right so there's no transparency over right so there's no transparency either so you know the whole the whole

either so you know the whole the whole either so you know the whole the whole notion that Affiliates are starting to

notion that Affiliates are starting to notion that Affiliates are starting to win or have been for many years

win or have been for many years win or have been for many years introducing fees for writing reviews

introducing fees for writing reviews introducing fees for writing reviews about your website then they start

about your website then they start about your website then they start thinking about how to have positions

thinking about how to have positions thinking about how to have positions that you pay for not just based on the

that you pay for not just based on the that you pay for not just based on the performance and having fixed fees then

performance and having fixed fees then performance and having fixed fees then on top of that you have to pay a CPA a

on top of that you have to pay a CPA a on top of that you have to pay a CPA a hybrid and all of these things you know

hybrid and all of these things you know hybrid and all of these things you know it's a free market but it's not really

it's a free market but it's not really it's a free market but it's not really free because it's relationship based

free because it's relationship based free because it's relationship based right so if I were to go out and try and

right so if I were to go out and try and right so if I were to go out and try and let's say there's a hot affiliate that's

let's say there's a hot affiliate that's let's say there's a hot affiliate that's you know controlling I don't know a

you know controlling I don't know a you know controlling I don't know a large portion of Theo Afric in a

large portion of Theo Afric in a large portion of Theo Afric in a particular region maybe they have I

particular region maybe they have I particular region maybe they have I don't know 20 30 sites I mean they

don't know 20 30 sites I mean they don't know 20 30 sites I mean they pretty much control the market and you

pretty much control the market and you pretty much control the market and you know know know sometimes it's very relationship based

sometimes it's very relationship based sometimes it's very relationship based and that's prone to its own um risks uh

and that's prone to its own um risks uh and that's prone to its own um risks uh when you have to deal with relationships

when you have to deal with relationships when you have to deal with relationships um and and how those can be manipulated

um and and how those can be manipulated um and and how those can be manipulated and how maybe sometimes the and how maybe sometimes the and how maybe sometimes the relationships might not be the most relationships might not be the most relationships might not be the most profitable for the people who are profitable for the people who are profitable for the people who are managing them um but these things happen

managing them um but these things happen managing them um but these things happen anyway so in my opinion that's just way

anyway so in my opinion that's just way anyway so in my opinion that's just way too much human and not enough machine

too much human and not enough machine too much human and not enough machine okay um and it's it's a lot of opinions

okay um and it's it's a lot of opinions okay um and it's it's a lot of opinions it's a lot of structures and so forth

it's a lot of structures and so forth it's a lot of structures and so forth and I think that's the value of let's

and I think that's the value of let's and I think that's the value of let's say say say potentially calculating the market based

potentially calculating the market based potentially calculating the market based on interest on a free market basis

on interest on a free market basis on interest on a free market basis rather than on a relationship basis and

rather than on a relationship basis and rather than on a relationship basis and then this is where we started talking

then this is where we started talking then this is where we started talking right because you also start getting

right because you also start getting right because you also start getting a let's say when you have the control of

a let's say when you have the control of a let's say when you have the control of the market and the flow of traffic and

the market and the flow of traffic and the market and the flow of traffic and is coming up through a few different

is coming up through a few different is coming up through a few different people it also opens up the and creates

people it also opens up the and creates people it also opens up the and creates the opportunity for a lot of fraud also

the opportunity for a lot of fraud also the opportunity for a lot of fraud also right um and these are all things where

right um and these are all things where right um and these are all things where you know where you have I mean a lot of

you know where you have I mean a lot of you know where you have I mean a lot of problems which I believe need to be

problems which I believe need to be problems which I believe need to be fixed I I believe that you're handling

fixed I I believe that you're handling fixed I I believe that you're handling them um and you're thinking about them

them um and you're thinking about them them um and you're thinking about them but it also creates the opportunity for

but it also creates the opportunity for but it also creates the opportunity for a transparent Network where you can buy

a transparent Network where you can buy a transparent Network where you can buy positions against other people based on

positions against other people based on positions against other people based on demand

demand demand rather than someone waking up in the

rather than someone waking up in the rather than someone waking up in the morning and saying you can get this

morning and saying you can get this morning and saying you can get this position just because I don't know you

position just because I don't know you position just because I don't know you yet so yeah that's where we started from

yet so yeah that's where we started from yet so yeah that's where we started from right yeah and it's interesting because

right yeah and it's interesting because right yeah and it's interesting because you're talking about audiences we're

you're talking about audiences we're you're talking about audiences we're talking about trying to make more data- talking about trying to make more data- talking about trying to make more data- driven decisions and you know I I like

driven decisions and you know I I like driven decisions and you know I I like your approach to thinking about okay

your approach to thinking about okay your approach to thinking about okay where am I going to get started you know

where am I going to get started you know where am I going to get started you know not necessarily an SEO but you start

not necessarily an SEO but you start not necessarily an SEO but you start asking questions and I think a lot of

asking questions and I think a lot of asking questions and I think a lot of people don't ask enough questions going

people don't ask enough questions going people don't ask enough questions going uh what is the answer to anything like

uh what is the answer to anything like uh what is the answer to anything like you know which percent of Affiliates are

you know which percent of Affiliates are you know which percent of Affiliates are using a postback or dynamic variable or

using a postback or dynamic variable or using a postback or dynamic variable or you know what are these interesting you know what are these interesting you know what are these interesting market segments or what's the player

market segments or what's the player market segments or what's the player value estimation of of anything in

value estimation of of anything in value estimation of of anything in igaming in different markets and I think

igaming in different markets and I think igaming in different markets and I think when you start looking at these when you start looking at these when you start looking at these questions that's when you see companies

questions that's when you see companies questions that's when you see companies uh come out of the woodwork like us for

uh come out of the woodwork like us for uh come out of the woodwork like us for what we do on the affiliate side or

what we do on the affiliate side or what we do on the affiliate side or blask with um you know the marketing

blask with um you know the marketing blask with um you know the marketing analytics side or even humble you know

analytics side or even humble you know analytics side or even humble you know doai you know and just trying to go how

doai you know and just trying to go how doai you know and just trying to go how do we how do we get these answers and I

do we how do we get these answers and I do we how do we get these answers and I think it's interesting to tie full

think it's interesting to tie full think it's interesting to tie full circle into affiliate marketing going

circle into affiliate marketing going circle into affiliate marketing going well what what's working today and

well what what's working today and well what what's working today and what's not working I think we know what's not working I think we know what's not working I think we know what's not working is basic affiliate

what's not working is basic affiliate what's not working is basic affiliate sites that have just review data or just

sites that have just review data or just sites that have just review data or just basic data that everyone else has and

basic data that everyone else has and basic data that everyone else has and then I I I like to think of the way you

then I I I like to think of the way you then I I I like to think of the way you think which is what problems can we

think which is what problems can we think which is what problems can we solve what are questions we can answer

solve what are questions we can answer solve what are questions we can answer these become products so I want to lead

these become products so I want to lead these become products so I want to lead That Into You Know another Rabbit Hole

That Into You Know another Rabbit Hole That Into You Know another Rabbit Hole or say what do you see is working and

or say what do you see is working and or say what do you see is working and what's not working today in affiliate

marketing okay so I mean I could give marketing okay so I mean I could give you the cookie cutter approach um CU

you the cookie cutter approach um CU you the cookie cutter approach um CU like there is or I could give you let's

like there is or I could give you let's like there is or I could give you let's say uh the broader approach okay so like

say uh the broader approach okay so like say uh the broader approach okay so like when we're talking about my expertise

when we're talking about my expertise when we're talking about my expertise it's mainly on mainly on SEO I do have

it's mainly on mainly on SEO I do have it's mainly on mainly on SEO I do have expertise in other areas also but I

expertise in other areas also but I expertise in other areas also but I still do believe rod I still do not

still do believe rod I still do not still do believe rod I still do not believe but you can see it visibly that

believe but you can see it visibly that believe but you can see it visibly that Google controls not only a large portion

Google controls not only a large portion Google controls not only a large portion of traffic that's coming from organic

of traffic that's coming from organic of traffic that's coming from organic searches but just traffic in General on

searches but just traffic in General on searches but just traffic in General on the internet so I mean if you're buying

the internet so I mean if you're buying the internet so I mean if you're buying ads on websites where do those websites

ads on websites where do those websites ads on websites where do those websites get their traffic from you know so

get their traffic from you know so get their traffic from you know so people yeah there you go so you have

people yeah there you go so you have people yeah there you go so you have people who are bidding on AdSense and

people who are bidding on AdSense and people who are bidding on AdSense and other AD networks on programmatic

other AD networks on programmatic other AD networks on programmatic advertising on websites where people are

advertising on websites where people are advertising on websites where people are going either direct okay they have it

going either direct okay they have it going either direct okay they have it bookmarked but most of the time they

bookmarked but most of the time they bookmarked but most of the time they first search for the brand in Google or

first search for the brand in Google or first search for the brand in Google or another search engine so the way that I

another search engine so the way that I another search engine so the way that I see this going

see this going see this going is I and maybe I'm biased over here

is I and maybe I'm biased over here is I and maybe I'm biased over here because I'm a hyperfocused SEO is based

because I'm a hyperfocused SEO is based because I'm a hyperfocused SEO is based on what's happening right now in the on what's happening right now in the on what's happening right now in the market from the SEO side of things and I

market from the SEO side of things and I market from the SEO side of things and I mean we do know that there have been a

mean we do know that there have been a mean we do know that there have been a supreme amount of update going done over

supreme amount of update going done over supreme amount of update going done over the past couple of month and I mean it's

the past couple of month and I mean it's the past couple of month and I mean it's quite interesting to see that in some

quite interesting to see that in some quite interesting to see that in some cases completely legitimate websites

cases completely legitimate websites cases completely legitimate websites which are building great eat have the

which are building great eat have the which are building great eat have the right entities and authors legitimate

right entities and authors legitimate right entities and authors legitimate people that they're not faking right um

people that they're not faking right um people that they're not faking right um are getting destroyed the legitimate

are getting destroyed the legitimate are getting destroyed the legitimate News website okay are getting destroyed

News website okay are getting destroyed News website okay are getting destroyed and then on the other side the stuff

and then on the other side the stuff and then on the other side the stuff that Google's fighting is starting to

that Google's fighting is starting to that Google's fighting is starting to get promoted higher so you know I mean

get promoted higher so you know I mean get promoted higher so you know I mean there's a a huge uh contradiction in the

there's a a huge uh contradiction in the there's a a huge uh contradiction in the approach versus the results in some

approach versus the results in some approach versus the results in some cases and I mean there is no SEO without

cases and I mean there is no SEO without cases and I mean there is no SEO without I think let's call it gry hat I think if

I think let's call it gry hat I think if I think let's call it gry hat I think if anyone uh has search engine optimization

anyone uh has search engine optimization anyone uh has search engine optimization in their title or in any kind of their

in their title or in any kind of their in their title or in any kind of their skills effectively they are breaking

skills effectively they are breaking skills effectively they are breaking Google's guidelines right um so

Google's guidelines right um so Google's guidelines right um so effectively Google doesn't want you to

effectively Google doesn't want you to effectively Google doesn't want you to manipulate its guidelines so if your

manipulate its guidelines so if your manipulate its guidelines so if your pure purpose in life is to manipulate

pure purpose in life is to manipulate pure purpose in life is to manipulate the guidelines uh sorry to manipulate

the guidelines uh sorry to manipulate the guidelines uh sorry to manipulate the search results then you are

the search results then you are the search results then you are effectively breach of their terms and

effectively breach of their terms and effectively breach of their terms and conditions right and can get your

conditions right and can get your conditions right and can get your website in some trouble but we're all

website in some trouble but we're all website in some trouble but we're all doing that right and I see

doing that right and I see doing that right and I see that right now while some of the

that right now while some of the that right now while some of the blackest tactics are being rewarded and

blackest tactics are being rewarded and blackest tactics are being rewarded and others are being completely destroyed

others are being completely destroyed others are being completely destroyed and legitimate businesses so I had a

and legitimate businesses so I had a and legitimate businesses so I had a person completely outside of igaming you

person completely outside of igaming you person completely outside of igaming you know just landbased operation had a

know just landbased operation had a know just landbased operation had a normal website ranking on their brand

normal website ranking on their brand normal website ranking on their brand decimated removed from the search

decimated removed from the search decimated removed from the search results completely

results completely results completely and I mean when we're looking

and I mean when we're looking and I mean when we're looking at why this is happening I mean goog

at why this is happening I mean goog at why this is happening I mean goog hasn't changed much in 20 damed yes okay

hasn't changed much in 20 damed yes okay hasn't changed much in 20 damed yes okay so they're pretty much stagnated um for

so they're pretty much stagnated um for so they're pretty much stagnated um for such a long period of time and it's such a long period of time and it's such a long period of time and it's obvious why right because their mission

obvious why right because their mission obvious why right because their mission is to organize the information on the

is to organize the information on the is to organize the information on the internet as best as they can and provide

internet as best as they can and provide internet as best as they can and provide the most relevant answer to people's

the most relevant answer to people's the most relevant answer to people's question and they been doing this for a

question and they been doing this for a question and they been doing this for a very very long period of time and if it

very very long period of time and if it very very long period of time and if it ain't broke don't fix it I guess but now

ain't broke don't fix it I guess but now ain't broke don't fix it I guess but now we're been put into the situation where

we're been put into the situation where we're been put into the situation where they're get starting to get panicked by

they're get starting to get panicked by they're get starting to get panicked by other systems which are coming into

other systems which are coming into other systems which are coming into place such as open AI such as perplexity

place such as open AI such as perplexity place such as open AI such as perplexity and all of the other let's say um Target

and all of the other let's say um Target and all of the other let's say um Target Target compers and they're also starting

Target compers and they're also starting Target compers and they're also starting to get you know put under pressure with

to get you know put under pressure with to get you know put under pressure with an antitrust law case as well as quite a

an antitrust law case as well as quite a an antitrust law case as well as quite a lot of use as quite a lot of interesting

lot of use as quite a lot of interesting lot of use as quite a lot of interesting developments on the

developments on the developments on the um on the closed let's say the closed

um on the closed let's say the closed um on the closed let's say the closed environments that they've been environments that they've been environments that they've been controlling for such a l period of time

controlling for such a l period of time controlling for such a l period of time so like we're talking about affiliate

so like we're talking about affiliate so like we're talking about affiliate marketing what's changing if Google is

marketing what's changing if Google is marketing what's changing if Google is changing if the place where people are

changing if the place where people are changing if the place where people are going is changing if the way that um

going is changing if the way that um going is changing if the way that um impressions are happening on website

impressions are happening on website impressions are happening on website everything starts changing right and

everything starts changing right and everything starts changing right and when you start seeing uh when you start

when you start seeing uh when you start when you start seeing uh when you start seeing a big entity like Google being

seeing a big entity like Google being seeing a big entity like Google being forced at least in the European Union I

forced at least in the European Union I forced at least in the European Union I don't know if it's like this in um the

don't know if it's like this in um the don't know if it's like this in um the states but if you had to open up your

states but if you had to open up your states but if you had to open up your browser and I don't know just try and

browser and I don't know just try and browser and I don't know just try and search a keyword in your U um the URL

search a keyword in your U um the URL search a keyword in your U um the URL section in the the European Union we're

section in the the European Union we're section in the the European Union we're currently being asked which our favorite

currently being asked which our favorite currently being asked which our favorite which browser or sorry search engine we

which browser or sorry search engine we which browser or sorry search engine we would like to use to perform that search

would like to use to perform that search would like to use to perform that search right so there's a lot of changes

right so there's a lot of changes right so there's a lot of changes happening and now suddenly you know this

happening and now suddenly you know this happening and now suddenly you know this monster Google which has had you know a

monster Google which has had you know a monster Google which has had you know a monopoly over the market of search of I

monopoly over the market of search of I monopoly over the market of search of I don't know how much is it 90 95% yeah 95

don't know how much is it 90 95% yeah 95 don't know how much is it 90 95% yeah 95 9996 and it's uh it's dropping quickly

9996 and it's uh it's dropping quickly 9996 and it's uh it's dropping quickly though yeah so you know they have that

though yeah so you know they have that though yeah so you know they have that 96% let's call it what it is it's a

96% let's call it what it is it's a 96% let's call it what it is it's a monopoly right suddenly the browser

monopoly right suddenly the browser monopoly right suddenly the browser funneling is starting to change because

funneling is starting to change because funneling is starting to change because there people are actually being asked I

there people are actually being asked I there people are actually being asked I mean maybe um although I don't really

mean maybe um although I don't really mean maybe um although I don't really enjoy the Google experience that much I

enjoy the Google experience that much I enjoy the Google experience that much I still do believe that they are the best still do believe that they are the best still do believe that they are the best search engine out there right now at

search engine out there right now at search engine out there right now at least for what they do um so I still

least for what they do um so I still least for what they do um so I still select them as my default search engine

select them as my default search engine select them as my default search engine although now I'm starting to see a lot

although now I'm starting to see a lot although now I'm starting to see a lot of different brands and you know what I of different brands and you know what I of different brands and you know what I might go and test them out and see who might go and test them out and see who might go and test them out and see who else is ranking and see what they're else is ranking and see what they're else is ranking and see what they're doing and even as a search engine

doing and even as a search engine doing and even as a search engine professional you get blinded because you

professional you get blinded because you professional you get blinded because you don't need to care about many other don't need to care about many other don't need to care about many other search engines you know and

search engines you know and search engines you know and 9.5 out of 10 people are going to one

9.5 out of 10 people are going to one 9.5 out of 10 people are going to one you know you might be wasting your time

you know you might be wasting your time you know you might be wasting your time on the 05% unless you know it's really

on the 05% unless you know it's really on the 05% unless you know it's really cheap and easy to get there and there cheap and easy to get there and there cheap and easy to get there and there are some volume so things are changing

are some volume so things are changing are some volume so things are changing Google has been panicked um and they're

Google has been panicked um and they're Google has been panicked um and they're taking some decisions that's beyond also

taking some decisions that's beyond also taking some decisions that's beyond also like parasite SEO I mean I didn't see an

like parasite SEO I mean I didn't see an like parasite SEO I mean I didn't see an update which impressed me on the update which impressed me on the update which impressed me on the parasite SEO side I saw an update which

parasite SEO side I saw an update which parasite SEO side I saw an update which was a panic move it reminds me very very

was a panic move it reminds me very very was a panic move it reminds me very very much of the old days of manual penalty I

much of the old days of manual penalty I much of the old days of manual penalty I mean nowadays if there's link spam not

mean nowadays if there's link spam not mean nowadays if there's link spam not much happen right Google's algorithms

much happen right Google's algorithms much happen right Google's algorithms have gotten so good that they can you

have gotten so good that they can you have gotten so good that they can you know start defining velocity the quality

know start defining velocity the quality know start defining velocity the quality the network and if you don't get

the network and if you don't get the network and if you don't get impacted NE negatively they will just

impacted NE negatively they will just impacted NE negatively they will just ignore you know what's happening so even

ignore you know what's happening so even ignore you know what's happening so even link attacks although they still do work

link attacks although they still do work link attacks although they still do work don't work as well as they did so you

don't work as well as they did so you don't work as well as they did so you have this amazing monster with all of

have this amazing monster with all of have this amazing monster with all of this you know data and data is King at

this you know data and data is King at this you know data and data is King at the end of the day which cannot figure

the end of the day which cannot figure the end of the day which cannot figure out how to deal with parasite SEO and

out how to deal with parasite SEO and out how to deal with parasite SEO and instead is going to coupon and betting

instead is going to coupon and betting instead is going to coupon and betting websites or subd directors which are

websites or subd directors which are websites or subd directors which are posted onto news sources and manually

posted onto news sources and manually posted onto news sources and manually issuing penalty so this is not

issuing penalty so this is not issuing penalty so this is not algorithmic accidence it's a show of

algorithmic accidence it's a show of algorithmic accidence it's a show of weakness in my eyes not a show of power

weakness in my eyes not a show of power weakness in my eyes not a show of power and it's definitely a slap on the wrist

and it's definitely a slap on the wrist and it's definitely a slap on the wrist and a kind of like hey if you're going

and a kind of like hey if you're going and a kind of like hey if you're going to do this you know there's a risk

to do this you know there's a risk to do this you know there's a risk towards it because if we discover that

towards it because if we discover that towards it because if we discover that you're doing it we might come and we

you're doing it we might come and we you're doing it we might come and we might damage you okay so this like kind

might damage you okay so this like kind might damage you okay so this like kind of reminds me also of the days where you

of reminds me also of the days where you of reminds me also of the days where you know they released the sponsored tag and

know they released the sponsored tag and know they released the sponsored tag and everyone started you know oh my God we

everyone started you know oh my God we everyone started you know oh my God we need to have sponsored tags on our on

need to have sponsored tags on our on need to have sponsored tags on our on our content okay so you just wants to

our content okay so you just wants to our content okay so you just wants to flag to Google what a sponsored post

flag to Google what a sponsored post flag to Google what a sponsored post looks like so they can collect a lot of

looks like so they can collect a lot of looks like so they can collect a lot of data of over this for a very long period

data of over this for a very long period data of over this for a very long period of time and then can potentially get

of time and then can potentially get of time and then can potentially get better at dealing with that so you know

better at dealing with that so you know better at dealing with that so you know this is the kind of thing that we're this is the kind of thing that we're this is the kind of thing that we're doing and you know just because I really

doing and you know just because I really doing and you know just because I really want to get to the crooks of your want to get to the crooks of your want to get to the crooks of your question but I think it's important that

question but I think it's important that question but I think it's important that we cover this first so on the other side

we cover this first so on the other side we cover this first so on the other side we also have apple you know who have had

we also have apple you know who have had we also have apple you know who have had for a very long period of time Google as

for a very long period of time Google as for a very long period of time Google as their default search engine and I mean

their default search engine and I mean their default search engine and I mean in the United States at least I do know

in the United States at least I do know in the United States at least I do know that Apple adoption for mobile usage is

that Apple adoption for mobile usage is that Apple adoption for mobile usage is quite is extremely high so that's a

quite is extremely high so that's a quite is extremely high so that's a large percentage of searches which are

large percentage of searches which are large percentage of searches which are happening on the internet we also see

happening on the internet we also see happening on the internet we also see that open Ai and apple are coming into a

that open Ai and apple are coming into a that open Ai and apple are coming into a partnership also over time so this means

partnership also over time so this means partnership also over time so this means that all of a sudden something which has

that all of a sudden something which has that all of a sudden something which has been very stable over a very long period

been very stable over a very long period been very stable over a very long period of time is starting to get disrupted now

of time is starting to get disrupted now of time is starting to get disrupted now um from a practical point of view right

um from a practical point of view right um from a practical point of view right now are you seeing a huge amount of

now are you seeing a huge amount of now are you seeing a huge amount of difference in clicks and all of these

difference in clicks and all of these difference in clicks and all of these different items if you have been

different items if you have been different items if you have been impacted by one of these updates

impacted by one of these updates impacted by one of these updates definitely right but if you have managed

definitely right but if you have managed definitely right but if you have managed to retain positions or win then we are

to retain positions or win then we are to retain positions or win then we are not seeing as large of an update an

not seeing as large of an update an not seeing as large of an update an impact right now um if you manage to

impact right now um if you manage to impact right now um if you manage to hold that said it's kind of like you

hold that said it's kind of like you hold that said it's kind of like you know you know you have a cancer deep

know you know you have a cancer deep know you know you have a cancer deep down but you don't want to go to the

down but you don't want to go to the down but you don't want to go to the doctor to scan it and to deal with it so

doctor to scan it and to deal with it so doctor to scan it and to deal with it so over time this will start changing and

over time this will start changing and over time this will start changing and Affiliates will need to start not

Affiliates will need to start not Affiliates will need to start not focusing on fighting for keywords but

focusing on fighting for keywords but focusing on fighting for keywords but focusing on fighting for attention and

focusing on fighting for attention and focusing on fighting for attention and that's what we're going to be moving that's what we're going to be moving that's what we're going to be moving towards at as time goes back I mean look

towards at as time goes back I mean look towards at as time goes back I mean look John I see this as the future and not

John I see this as the future and not John I see this as the future and not that distant future you know people are

that distant future you know people are that distant future you know people are going to be looking back and saying oh

going to be looking back and saying oh going to be looking back and saying oh my God you guys used to have search

my God you guys used to have search my God you guys used to have search engine where you used to go and type a

engine where you used to go and type a engine where you used to go and type a keyword and you used to have to go keyword and you used to have to go keyword and you used to have to go through like you know maybe it worked

through like you know maybe it worked through like you know maybe it worked well until 2019 and then it started

well until 2019 and then it started well until 2019 and then it started working badly and then instead of

working badly and then instead of working badly and then instead of getting your answer on one click you had

getting your answer on one click you had getting your answer on one click you had to start looking at four different to start looking at four different to start looking at four different websites with four different experiences

websites with four different experiences websites with four different experiences they had to figure out how to navigate

they had to figure out how to navigate they had to figure out how to navigate those websites and read through a lot of

those websites and read through a lot of those websites and read through a lot of information to get you know the little

information to get you know the little information to get you know the little bit of information which is actually bit of information which is actually bit of information which is actually relevant to you like I believe where

relevant to you like I believe where relevant to you like I believe where we're heading to is you

we're heading to is you we're heading to is you know uh and we're starting to see this

know uh and we're starting to see this know uh and we're starting to see this also I'm sorry I'm going into a really also I'm sorry I'm going into a really also I'm sorry I'm going into a really deep Rabbit Hole over here because I deep Rabbit Hole over here because I deep Rabbit Hole over here because I really want to answer it correctly I I

really want to answer it correctly I I really want to answer it correctly I I believe that we're going into we're

believe that we're going into we're believe that we're going into we're going into a a w Garden a w Garden kind

going into a a w Garden a w Garden kind going into a a w Garden a w Garden kind of approach where Publishers are not

of approach where Publishers are not of approach where Publishers are not going to be rewarded with clicks that

going to be rewarded with clicks that going to be rewarded with clicks that much anymore and traffic to their

much anymore and traffic to their much anymore and traffic to their website I believe that you're going to website I believe that you're going to website I believe that you're going to have a few domains which going become

have a few domains which going become have a few domains which going become massive and they're going to be pulling

massive and they're going to be pulling massive and they're going to be pulling information from ugc and feeds rather

information from ugc and feeds rather information from ugc and feeds rather than authors I still believe there's

than authors I still believe there's than authors I still believe there's going to be a place for those so we're

going to be a place for those so we're going to be a place for those so we're moving into a Direction Where We have an

moving into a Direction Where We have an moving into a Direction Where We have an open market based on Google you know on

open market based on Google you know on open market based on Google you know on on how Google's feeling that they to

on how Google's feeling that they to on how Google's feeling that they to send you a click um to a closed Market

send you a click um to a closed Market send you a click um to a closed Market where Google going to and other search

where Google going to and other search where Google going to and other search engines are not going to want to send engines are not going to want to send engines are not going to want to send the clicks and I going to wants to the clicks and I going to wants to the clicks and I going to wants to provide information in the browser Al in

provide information in the browser Al in provide information in the browser Al in the in their the in their the in their website everyone's laughing at what's

website everyone's laughing at what's website everyone's laughing at what's going on with sge and you know ah it's

going on with sge and you know ah it's going on with sge and you know ah it's suck they used to have a large amount of

suck they used to have a large amount of suck they used to have a large amount of a large amount of clicks were being

a large amount of clicks were being a large amount of clicks were being served through AI content I believe it

served through AI content I believe it served through AI content I believe it was something like in a particular kind

was something like in a particular kind was something like in a particular kind of what what was the word um intent 60%

of what what was the word um intent 60% of what what was the word um intent 60% and now it's down to like 9% of the of

and now it's down to like 9% of the of and now it's down to like 9% of the of the searches are showing um SG based uh

the searches are showing um SG based uh the searches are showing um SG based uh based answers but yeah that's because

based answers but yeah that's because based answers but yeah that's because they're learning right um and right now

they're learning right um and right now they're learning right um and right now I believe that Google is moving more and

I believe that Google is moving more and I believe that Google is moving more and more into valuing the user signals than

more into valuing the user signals than more into valuing the user signals than it is into valuing the SEO

it is into valuing the SEO it is into valuing the SEO optimizations and the content so I

optimizations and the content so I optimizations and the content so I believe that over time is going to be

believe that over time is going to be believe that over time is going to be rewarding people or rewarding sites or

rewarding people or rewarding sites or rewarding people or rewarding sites or rewarding sources of content which have

rewarding sources of content which have rewarding sources of content which have branded traffic which people return to

branded traffic which people return to branded traffic which people return to which people spend time on and this is

which people spend time on and this is which people spend time on and this is like flipping the affiliate model on its

like flipping the affiliate model on its like flipping the affiliate model on its head right to an extent because like you

head right to an extent because like you head right to an extent because like you speak to any affiliate at least until

speak to any affiliate at least until speak to any affiliate at least until last year and the model is okay I want

last year and the model is okay I want last year and the model is okay I want to rank on a keyword get someone on my

to rank on a keyword get someone on my to rank on a keyword get someone on my site and I want them to click out as

site and I want them to click out as site and I want them to click out as quickly as possible because gosh darn it quickly as possible because gosh darn it quickly as possible because gosh darn it if they don't click out as quickly as as

if they don't click out as quickly as as if they don't click out as quickly as as possible I'm going to end up with a

possible I'm going to end up with a possible I'm going to end up with a lower conversion rate and I want them to

lower conversion rate and I want them to lower conversion rate and I want them to select one of those sites click go and

select one of those sites click go and select one of those sites click go and then convert on that website and then

then convert on that website and then then convert on that website and then it's done right and maybe I have some it's done right and maybe I have some it's done right and maybe I have some programmatic I can retarget them I do

programmatic I can retarget them I do programmatic I can retarget them I do some smart stuff with telecoms providers

some smart stuff with telecoms providers some smart stuff with telecoms providers yada yada but that was the model before

yada yada but that was the model before yada yada but that was the model before but now we're going to a different kind

but now we're going to a different kind but now we're going to a different kind of model over time we're going to an of model over time we're going to an of model over time we're going to an attention model and realistically I mean

attention model and realistically I mean attention model and realistically I mean right now what would I advise advise B

right now what would I advise advise B right now what would I advise advise B to Affiliates um so don't just have one

to Affiliates um so don't just have one to Affiliates um so don't just have one asset you're going to have one asset do

asset you're going to have one asset do asset you're going to have one asset do the best job that you possibly can to

the best job that you possibly can to the best job that you possibly can to build a brand like from the domain name

build a brand like from the domain name build a brand like from the domain name into um the kind of authors and

into um the kind of authors and into um the kind of authors and personalities that they have and content

personalities that they have and content personalities that they have and content they write think about reducing your

they write think about reducing your they write think about reducing your cost cost cost significantly um so integrate I'm not

significantly um so integrate I'm not significantly um so integrate I'm not telling you use AI to replace people or

telling you use AI to replace people or telling you use AI to replace people or to replace content writers but I mean

to replace content writers but I mean to replace content writers but I mean don't ignore AI okay use AI don't ignore

don't ignore AI okay use AI don't ignore don't ignore AI okay use AI don't ignore it um but also you know don't only go

it um but also you know don't only go it um but also you know don't only go for those high value assets you know the

for those high value assets you know the for those high value assets you know the ones which you invest money into a lot

ones which you invest money into a lot ones which you invest money into a lot of time into you have a period of time

of time into you have a period of time of time into you have a period of time where you're not going to be getting where you're not going to be getting where you're not going to be getting much out of it but you build it over

much out of it but you build it over much out of it but you build it over time and then you build a big monster time and then you build a big monster time and then you build a big monster which is which is monthly rational so which is which is monthly rational so which is which is monthly rational so that that can still work but if you're

that that can still work but if you're that that can still work but if you're going to be going for more of the exact going to be going for more of the exact going to be going for more of the exact match domains for more of the let's say

match domains for more of the let's say match domains for more of the let's say link building tactics which

link building tactics which link building tactics which are um you know that they're dangerous

are um you know that they're dangerous are um you know that they're dangerous you know that there's they're not going you know that there's they're not going you know that there's they're not going to have like long lifespan right so the

to have like long lifespan right so the to have like long lifespan right so the aim of going

aim of going aim of going for a good time for a long time or a

for a good time for a long time or a for a good time for a long time or a good time for a short time right you

good time for a short time right you good time for a short time right you know so like there's a huge potential

know so like there's a huge potential know so like there's a huge potential right now to be a crash and burn right now to be a crash and burn right now to be a crash and burn affiliate what do I mean by that so if

affiliate what do I mean by that so if affiliate what do I mean by that so if you want to be an affiliate that

you want to be an affiliate that you want to be an affiliate that purchases domains expired domains exact

purchases domains expired domains exact purchases domains expired domains exact M loads content on them regardless of

M loads content on them regardless of M loads content on them regardless of what Googs you still see this working

what Googs you still see this working what Googs you still see this working okay load content on it um deploy 10 15

okay load content on it um deploy 10 15 okay load content on it um deploy 10 15 20 sites wait for them to rank for a

20 sites wait for them to rank for a 20 sites wait for them to rank for a couple of months do it extremely cheaply

couple of months do it extremely cheaply couple of months do it extremely cheaply then they get burnt into hell you have

then they get burnt into hell you have then they get burnt into hell you have they're not recoverable but in that

they're not recoverable but in that they're not recoverable but in that period of time you made the money which

period of time you made the money which period of time you made the money which you needed to make and it was profitable

you needed to make and it was profitable you needed to make and it was profitable and you're going to fail a lot more than and you're going to fail a lot more than and you're going to fail a lot more than you suive but you need to keep your cost

you suive but you need to keep your cost you suive but you need to keep your cost under control so that can work also um

under control so that can work also um under control so that can work also um but from my preferred approach my

but from my preferred approach my but from my preferred approach my preferred approach and it's really funny

preferred approach and it's really funny preferred approach and it's really funny John sorry I'm a bit but um when I when

John sorry I'm a bit but um when I when John sorry I'm a bit but um when I when I had just started Game Change all those

I had just started Game Change all those I had just started Game Change all those years back I remember telling people on

years back I remember telling people on years back I remember telling people on a my first panel I had ever gone on at

a my first panel I had ever gone on at a my first panel I had ever gone on at Sigma Sigma Sigma 2019 guys start investing in building a

2019 guys start investing in building a 2019 guys start investing in building a brand yes you know and this was this was

brand yes you know and this was this was brand yes you know and this was this was all those years ago and you don't really

all those years ago and you don't really all those years ago and you don't really see the patterns emerging in the future

see the patterns emerging in the future see the patterns emerging in the future and predict it because that's what we do

and predict it because that's what we do and predict it because that's what we do in SEO we try to predict what's going to

in SEO we try to predict what's going to in SEO we try to predict what's going to happen you just care about how you're happen you just care about how you're happen you just care about how you're making money right now and yeah yeah

making money right now and yeah yeah making money right now and yeah yeah making money right now is good but

making money right now is good but making money right now is good but making money in the long term is good

making money in the long term is good making money in the long term is good all right yeah I know the the concept of

all right yeah I know the the concept of all right yeah I know the the concept of just build a brand sounds simplistic but

just build a brand sounds simplistic but just build a brand sounds simplistic but when I went to brightness SEO there was

when I went to brightness SEO there was when I went to brightness SEO there was a panalysts then she basically said when

a panalysts then she basically said when a panalysts then she basically said when I'm trying to help my clients win

I'm trying to help my clients win I'm trying to help my clients win business and in search said there's one

business and in search said there's one business and in search said there's one type of uh competitor I I can't be over

type of uh competitor I I can't be over type of uh competitor I I can't be over and over again and why what what makes

and over again and why what what makes and over again and why what what makes them good and she said it all came down

them good and she said it all came down them good and she said it all came down to branding and I think branding like

to branding and I think branding like to branding and I think branding like here's my my recognition of you know

here's my my recognition of you know here's my my recognition of you know what you see in the marketplace of going

what you see in the marketplace of going what you see in the marketplace of going like what works and what isn't work

like what works and what isn't work like what works and what isn't work isn't working I think building a good

isn't working I think building a good isn't working I think building a good product and you've already said this product and you've already said this product and you've already said this before it's like build the best whatever

before it's like build the best whatever before it's like build the best whatever it is you can be build the best it is you can be build the best it is you can be build the best affiliate site I think if you build a

affiliate site I think if you build a affiliate site I think if you build a good product it becomes uh an extension

good product it becomes uh an extension good product it becomes uh an extension of branding so think about ask gamblers

of branding so think about ask gamblers of branding so think about ask gamblers how many people search for Casino name

how many people search for Casino name how many people search for Casino name ask gamblers I mean we already have it

ask gamblers I mean we already have it ask gamblers I mean we already have it right now where you search for something

right now where you search for something right now where you search for something plus Reddit I do this all the time like

plus Reddit I do this all the time like plus Reddit I do this all the time like I'm looking for the Reddit version

I'm looking for the Reddit version I'm looking for the Reddit version inside Google for a question I have but

inside Google for a question I have but inside Google for a question I have but this happens for Branding like we want

this happens for Branding like we want this happens for Branding like we want to be in a space where people search for

to be in a space where people search for to be in a space where people search for an affiliate program plus the word Stone

an affiliate program plus the word Stone an affiliate program plus the word Stone because they're looking for the review

because they're looking for the review because they're looking for the review we've done that's what we aspire to so

we've done that's what we aspire to so we've done that's what we aspire to so we're already thinking you know that far

we're already thinking you know that far we're already thinking you know that far ahead in the future and I think you're

ahead in the future and I think you're ahead in the future and I think you're right like to fight for attention how do

right like to fight for attention how do right like to fight for attention how do you fight for attention build a good

you fight for attention build a good you fight for attention build a good product and it's got to be not more than

product and it's got to be not more than product and it's got to be not more than information so I don't know my answer is

information so I don't know my answer is information so I don't know my answer is like eggs all your eggs in one basket or

like eggs all your eggs in one basket or like eggs all your eggs in one basket or diversify I think the answer is you pick

diversify I think the answer is you pick diversify I think the answer is you pick and choose but if you're going to pick

and choose but if you're going to pick and choose but if you're going to pick only one uh you're right no one I don't

only one uh you're right no one I don't only one uh you're right no one I don't think everyone really comes to the the

think everyone really comes to the the think everyone really comes to the the filet marketing game going I want to be

filet marketing game going I want to be filet marketing game going I want to be the best they want to rank for best

the best they want to rank for best the best they want to rank for best casinos but they don't go out of the way

casinos but they don't go out of the way casinos but they don't go out of the way to make the best best casinos article

to make the best best casinos article to make the best best casinos article which is pure

which is pure which is pure irony yeah and and now we're entering an

irony yeah and and now we're entering an irony yeah and and now we're entering an age where I mean I come from the

age where I mean I come from the age where I mean I come from the software industry okay so I actually

software industry okay so I actually software industry okay so I actually started off in SEO as I used to write

started off in SEO as I used to write started off in SEO as I used to write user manuals way back for software

user manuals way back for software user manuals way back for software companies and

companies and companies and you know I mean my journey was I saw

you know I mean my journey was I saw you know I mean my journey was I saw that there was an opportunity to publish

that there was an opportunity to publish that there was an opportunity to publish a PDF in pages on a site and entally

a PDF in pages on a site and entally a PDF in pages on a site and entally entally manage it through Google Docs I

entally manage it through Google Docs I entally manage it through Google Docs I had a plugin for different pages and I

had a plugin for different pages and I had a plugin for different pages and I used to join everything so it was it was used to join everything so it was it was used to join everything so it was it was cool it was a fun project right while I

cool it was a fun project right while I cool it was a fun project right while I was like you know doing training and

was like you know doing training and was like you know doing training and recording videos and then when I you

recording videos and then when I you recording videos and then when I you know put this manual out as pages I

know put this manual out as pages I know put this manual out as pages I started realizing oh look I'm getting a

started realizing oh look I'm getting a started realizing oh look I'm getting a lot of lot of lot of traffic coming towards this manual and

traffic coming towards this manual and traffic coming towards this manual and Sal started contacting me and saying hey

Sal started contacting me and saying hey Sal started contacting me and saying hey we're getting a lot of leads uh where

we're getting a lot of leads uh where we're getting a lot of leads uh where are they coming from and you know when

are they coming from and you know when are they coming from and you know when you're talking to the people that you're

you're talking to the people that you're you're talking to the people that you're solving the problem for with the

solving the problem for with the solving the problem for with the solution that you're promoting and the

solution that you're promoting and the solution that you're promoting and the product is good that's winning right so

product is good that's winning right so product is good that's winning right so I always believe that if you have a good

I always believe that if you have a good I always believe that if you have a good product you don't even need to sell it

product you don't even need to sell it product you don't even need to sell it it sells itself okay and as you said

it sells itself okay and as you said it sells itself okay and as you said right now Google is the product that

right now Google is the product that right now Google is the product that everyone is selling right because everyone is selling right because everyone is selling right because everyone is selling someone else's

everyone is selling someone else's everyone is selling someone else's product and how risky is that okay um

product and how risky is that okay um product and how risky is that okay um when you look at it on like a macro

when you look at it on like a macro when you look at it on like a macro scale you have no control over Google

scale you have no control over Google scale you have no control over Google most you can do is influence it so if

most you can do is influence it so if most you can do is influence it so if you're entire strategy is not into the

you're entire strategy is not into the you're entire strategy is not into the product you're building that can sit and

product you're building that can sit and product you're building that can sit and live by itself and generate repairing

live by itself and generate repairing live by itself and generate repairing visitors if you're only going to survive

visitors if you're only going to survive visitors if you're only going to survive by ranking number one on a particular

by ranking number one on a particular by ranking number one on a particular keyword then you're in trouble because

keyword then you're in trouble because keyword then you're in trouble because positions on Google are never bought

positions on Google are never bought positions on Google are never bought unless you're paying for BPT right

unless you're paying for BPT right unless you're paying for BPT right positions on Google are rented and I've

positions on Google are rented and I've positions on Google are rented and I've ranked number one for thousands of

ranked number one for thousands of ranked number one for thousands of keywords over my career I never retained

keywords over my career I never retained keywords over my career I never retained ranking on number one throughout my

ranking on number one throughout my ranking on number one throughout my career so it comes and it goes so it's

career so it comes and it goes so it's career so it comes and it goes so it's going to fluctuate the traffic you need

going to fluctuate the traffic you need going to fluctuate the traffic you need to have diversification of topics other

to have diversification of topics other to have diversification of topics other keywords your ranking on all of these

keywords your ranking on all of these keywords your ranking on all of these other aspect so yeah there's a very

other aspect so yeah there's a very other aspect so yeah there's a very simplistic approach that people think of

simplistic approach that people think of simplistic approach that people think of when they're trying to tackle these when they're trying to tackle these when they're trying to tackle these kinds of games which is let me use

kinds of games which is let me use kinds of games which is let me use Google's products rather than build my

Google's products rather than build my Google's products rather than build my own and it's a good strategy because it

own and it's a good strategy because it own and it's a good strategy because it works right and a lot of people are very

works right and a lot of people are very works right and a lot of people are very very successful at it but I think it

very successful at it but I think it very successful at it but I think it still works but we're still going to be

still works but we're still going to be still works but we're still going to be working for much longer when you just

working for much longer when you just working for much longer when you just simply write a very you know lean piece

simply write a very you know lean piece simply write a very you know lean piece of content a website which loads

of content a website which loads of content a website which loads extremely fast it ranks on a particular

extremely fast it ranks on a particular extremely fast it ranks on a particular keyword and then that particular keyword

keyword and then that particular keyword keyword and then that particular keyword over a period of time might disappear it

over a period of time might disappear it over a period of time might disappear it might come back then what's going to

might come back then what's going to might come back then what's going to happen over time if you're just happen over time if you're just happen over time if you're just providing like content very

providing like content very providing like content very inexperienced traditional CH and burn

inexperienced traditional CH and burn inexperienced traditional CH and burn SEO over time Google is going to start

SEO over time Google is going to start SEO over time Google is going to start looking at the user signals and I've

looking at the user signals and I've looking at the user signals and I've been saying this for years right so the

been saying this for years right so the been saying this for years right so the biggest success that the greatest biggest success that the greatest biggest success that the greatest success that I ever have SEO is when I

success that I ever have SEO is when I success that I ever have SEO is when I mix it with multich so if I can't buy a

mix it with multich so if I can't buy a mix it with multich so if I can't buy a link from a website I buy a banner from

link from a website I buy a banner from link from a website I buy a banner from that website if I cannot if I need to if

that website if I cannot if I need to if that website if I cannot if I need to if I cannot um let's say get an uplip in my

I cannot um let's say get an uplip in my I cannot um let's say get an uplip in my keywords because the competitors have

keywords because the competitors have keywords because the competitors have something over me then I start pushing

something over me then I start pushing something over me then I start pushing traffic towards it and I'm not talking

traffic towards it and I'm not talking traffic towards it and I'm not talking about quick manipulation okay so those

about quick manipulation okay so those about quick manipulation okay so those things do work I think they have a LIF

things do work I think they have a LIF things do work I think they have a LIF span also okay um but I'm talking about

span also okay um but I'm talking about span also okay um but I'm talking about real traffic over here a real proper

real traffic over here a real proper real traffic over here a real proper strategy where you know you look at your

strategy where you know you look at your strategy where you know you look at your compeers and you try to determine what

compeers and you try to determine what compeers and you try to determine what do they have which I don't which is

do they have which I don't which is do they have which I don't which is making them successful and I can give

making them successful and I can give making them successful and I can give you an example about the UK Market when

you an example about the UK Market when you an example about the UK Market when we were promoting an operator a

we were promoting an operator a we were promoting an operator a regulated operator in the UK Market that

regulated operator in the UK Market that regulated operator in the UK Market that was a casino I at that point in time all

was a casino I at that point in time all was a casino I at that point in time all of the people who are ranking on the top

of the people who are ranking on the top of the people who are ranking on the top positions in the UK market for online

positions in the UK market for online positions in the UK market for online casino UK Big B Bonanza big banza UK all

casino UK Big B Bonanza big banza UK all casino UK Big B Bonanza big banza UK all of these kinds life Casino life Casino

of these kinds life Casino life Casino of these kinds life Casino life Casino UK all of these kinds of keywords back

UK all of these kinds of keywords back UK all of these kinds of keywords back then actually had uh a Sportsbook

then actually had uh a Sportsbook then actually had uh a Sportsbook platform also so they weren't just

platform also so they weren't just platform also so they weren't just standing alone as Casino they were also

standing alone as Casino they were also standing alone as Casino they were also sportsbooks they had in some cases local

sportsbooks they had in some cases local sportsbooks they had in some cases local shops and the link profile I just

shops and the link profile I just shops and the link profile I just couldn't compete with why because these

couldn't compete with why because these couldn't compete with why because these guys had um

guys had um guys had um footballers and you know I eventually

footballers and you know I eventually footballers and you know I eventually end up meting meeting the guy who who

end up meting meeting the guy who who end up meting meeting the guy who who runs this this whole this whole activity

runs this this whole this whole activity runs this this whole this whole activity so they would find let's say washed up

so they would find let's say washed up so they would find let's say washed up footballers right who are no longer no

footballers right who are no longer no footballers right who are no longer no longer um playing they're a little bit

longer um playing they're a little bit longer um playing they're a little bit older to uh make a comment on the on

older to uh make a comment on the on older to uh make a comment on the on behalf of the operator such as on behalf

behalf of the operator such as on behalf behalf of the operator such as on behalf of um John beting right um I am going to

of um John beting right um I am going to of um John beting right um I am going to say this and then get it published as a

say this and then get it published as a say this and then get it published as a quote quote quote within a particular publication such as

within a particular publication such as within a particular publication such as the sun the Telegraph and these kinds of

the sun the Telegraph and these kinds of the sun the Telegraph and these kinds of domains which you know you suddenly have

domains which you know you suddenly have domains which you know you suddenly have a gap in your profile so if you do a gap in your profile so if you do a gap in your profile so if you do everything perfectly suddenly you have a

everything perfectly suddenly you have a everything perfectly suddenly you have a gap in your profile so you know then we

gap in your profile so you know then we gap in your profile so you know then we had to start looking into ways of how to

had to start looking into ways of how to had to start looking into ways of how to fill that Gap when we don't have the

fill that Gap when we don't have the fill that Gap when we don't have the product to be able to satisfy the market

product to be able to satisfy the market product to be able to satisfy the market requirements and the topicality which

requirements and the topicality which requirements and the topicality which Google seeing relevant towards the UK

Google seeing relevant towards the UK Google seeing relevant towards the UK market so I don't know how it is right

market so I don't know how it is right market so I don't know how it is right now but back then you needed to have

now but back then you needed to have now but back then you needed to have sports you needed to have Casino people

sports you needed to have Casino people sports you needed to have Casino people who wanted to bet on Sports would be

who wanted to bet on Sports would be who wanted to bet on Sports would be cross marketed Casino people who would

cross marketed Casino people who would cross marketed Casino people who would bet on Casino would be cross marketed

bet on Casino would be cross marketed bet on Casino would be cross marketed Sports so it was an ecosystem so we

Sports so it was an ecosystem so we Sports so it was an ecosystem so we actually managed to get there and we actually managed to get there and we actually managed to get there and we managed to get there by uh teaming up

managed to get there by uh teaming up managed to get there by uh teaming up with um some great PR guys

with um some great PR guys with um some great PR guys that uh and and running some some

that uh and and running some some that uh and and running some some advertisements okay some different let's

advertisements okay some different let's advertisements okay some different let's say skills to casino and this is a

say skills to casino and this is a say skills to casino and this is a beautiful thing okay that when you

beautiful thing okay that when you beautiful thing okay that when you create a viral sensation and recreated a

create a viral sensation and recreated a create a viral sensation and recreated a viral sensation I'm not going to mention

viral sensation I'm not going to mention viral sensation I'm not going to mention what it is but I mean it it went it went

what it is but I mean it it went it went what it is but I mean it it went it went wild you know so like 2,000 referring

wild you know so like 2,000 referring wild you know so like 2,000 referring domains in two weeks lad Bible uni lad

domains in two weeks lad Bible uni lad domains in two weeks lad Bible uni lad all of the best things right that's for

all of the best things right that's for all of the best things right that's for the UK Market you could hope for um not

the UK Market you could hope for um not the UK Market you could hope for um not only that all of the traffic behind it

only that all of the traffic behind it only that all of the traffic behind it to make it look not only more organic

to make it look not only more organic to make it look not only more organic but to actually rise the wave and

but to actually rise the wave and but to actually rise the wave and promote it more to get it to go even

promote it more to get it to go even promote it more to get it to go even more viral and so forth and you know we

more viral and so forth and you know we more viral and so forth and you know we managed to get that point in time a huge

managed to get that point in time a huge managed to get that point in time a huge boost and start ranking at top positions

boost and start ranking at top positions boost and start ranking at top positions of all of those keywords or of all of those keywords or of all of those keywords or registrations went through the rout TDS

registrations went through the rout TDS registrations went through the rout TDS went through the rout you know the went through the rout you know the went through the rout you know the promotion itself got reated by some very

promotion itself got reated by some very promotion itself got reated by some very famous people that you know just you

famous people that you know just you famous people that you know just you know got the brand out there on a global

know got the brand out there on a global know got the brand out there on a global scale so when you look at SEO and

scale so when you look at SEO and scale so when you look at SEO and isolation and this is what a lot of

isolation and this is what a lot of isolation and this is what a lot of people do uh it works but you're playing

people do uh it works but you're playing people do uh it works but you're playing by a set of rules like the formula one

by a set of rules like the formula one by a set of rules like the formula one right so uh who cut the most fat off of

right so uh who cut the most fat off of right so uh who cut the most fat off of their off of their you know their

their off of their you know their their off of their you know their machine right so the the the car itself

machine right so the the the car itself machine right so the the the car itself and who can have the most power to

and who can have the most power to and who can have the most power to weight the highest power to weight ratio

weight the highest power to weight ratio weight the highest power to weight ratio and that that's what it is you know like and that that's what it is you know like and that that's what it is you know like hyper competitive but then there are

hyper competitive but then there are hyper competitive but then there are these secret which aren't really spoken

these secret which aren't really spoken these secret which aren't really spoken about in SEO um which which which is a

about in SEO um which which which is a about in SEO um which which which is a shame because some cases SEO see to work

shame because some cases SEO see to work shame because some cases SEO see to work in isolation and if SEO you integrate

in isolation and if SEO you integrate in isolation and if SEO you integrate with PR you inte integrate with um

with PR you inte integrate with um with PR you inte integrate with um programmatic media advertising media

programmatic media advertising media programmatic media advertising media buying you even integrate the SEO side

buying you even integrate the SEO side buying you even integrate the SEO side with the PPC so like how many people and

with the PPC so like how many people and with the PPC so like how many people and I I spoke to a guy like a month ago and

I I spoke to a guy like a month ago and I I spoke to a guy like a month ago and I came up with a suggestion like okay so

I came up with a suggestion like okay so I came up with a suggestion like okay so this is a new product you've never

this is a new product you've never this is a new product you've never worked on it you don't know what the

worked on it you don't know what the worked on it you don't know what the conversion is going to be like but you

conversion is going to be like but you conversion is going to be like but you want to start we don't have any market

want to start we don't have any market want to start we don't have any market research or any reference point so it's

research or any reference point so it's research or any reference point so it's not an area of expertise for myself or

not an area of expertise for myself or not an area of expertise for myself or Game Changer and we're instantly going

Game Changer and we're instantly going Game Changer and we're instantly going to go all in on a set of keywords that

to go all in on a set of keywords that to go all in on a set of keywords that we don't know how they're going to

we don't know how they're going to we don't know how they're going to perform so why not test it out on PPC

perform so why not test it out on PPC perform so why not test it out on PPC first which is you know an approach that

first which is you know an approach that first which is you know an approach that can actually tie the click to the actual

can actually tie the click to the actual can actually tie the click to the actual result okay coming from the particular

result okay coming from the particular result okay coming from the particular keyword let's see where the money

keyword let's see where the money keyword let's see where the money is online casino space it's something

is online casino space it's something is online casino space it's something different is technology and then let's

different is technology and then let's different is technology and then let's scale a strategy around something which

scale a strategy around something which scale a strategy around something which has proved improve and to generate money

has proved improve and to generate money has proved improve and to generate money so we're I see that a lot of let's say

so we're I see that a lot of let's say so we're I see that a lot of let's say departments and organizations work in

departments and organizations work in departments and organizations work in isolation the greatest success that I

isolation the greatest success that I isolation the greatest success that I have Ino is when either I get all of the

have Ino is when either I get all of the have Ino is when either I get all of the Departments to work together or when I

Departments to work together or when I Departments to work together or when I take control of everything myself so I'm

take control of everything myself so I'm take control of everything myself so I'm a monster when it comes to these kinds a monster when it comes to these kinds a monster when it comes to these kinds of things you know I mean um setting up

of things you know I mean um setting up of things you know I mean um setting up ad networks programmatic by myself um

ad networks programmatic by myself um ad networks programmatic by myself um obviously having the correct partners

obviously having the correct partners obviously having the correct partners and so forth volum to be able to track

and so forth volum to be able to track and so forth volum to be able to track everything um you know and and start

everything um you know and and start everything um you know and and start scaling and moving towards profitability

scaling and moving towards profitability scaling and moving towards profitability know we don't get a banner we don't get know we don't get a banner we don't get know we don't get a banner we don't get a link from here let's buy a banner and

a link from here let's buy a banner and a link from here let's buy a banner and like when you know you suddenly start

like when you know you suddenly start like when you know you suddenly start building all of that up and you start

building all of that up and you start building all of that up and you start tackling that multi-channel approach

tackling that multi-channel approach tackling that multi-channel approach that's when you end up with that's when

that's when you end up with that's when that's when you end up with that's when you end up having a great product great

you end up having a great product great you end up having a great product great promotion great Omni Channel approach

promotion great Omni Channel approach promotion great Omni Channel approach then you become unbeatable right then

then you become unbeatable right then then you become unbeatable right then you can say like okay this is going to

you can say like okay this is going to you can say like okay this is going to be a little bit last longer lasting like

be a little bit last longer lasting like be a little bit last longer lasting like okay we're not just relying on position

okay we're not just relying on position okay we're not just relying on position one of best online casinos in a

one of best online casinos in a one of best online casinos in a particular Market because right now our

particular Market because right now our particular Market because right now our machine is faster than the other

guys that's the way I thought I look at guys that's the way I thought I look at it yeah so I'm gonna go back because you

it yeah so I'm gonna go back because you it yeah so I'm gonna go back because you said something that really got my

said something that really got my said something that really got my attention which was you you said you

attention which was you you said you attention which was you you said you have experience in creating manuals and

have experience in creating manuals and have experience in creating manuals and then you published it so it was a PDF I

then you published it so it was a PDF I then you published it so it was a PDF I think you said you turn it into pages

think you said you turn it into pages think you said you turn it into pages and then sales were like where are all

and then sales were like where are all and then sales were like where are all these leads coming from and this I

these leads coming from and this I these leads coming from and this I already wrote down as a note before you

already wrote down as a note before you already wrote down as a note before you said it which is bottom of funnel

said it which is bottom of funnel said it which is bottom of funnel content and funny enough we're we're a

content and funny enough we're we're a content and funny enough we're we're a SAS company so what I've realized is

SAS company so what I've realized is SAS company so what I've realized is that we need to do more and more bottom

that we need to do more and more bottom that we need to do more and more bottom of funnel content and then trying to tie

of funnel content and then trying to tie of funnel content and then trying to tie this into Affiliates I think not enough

this into Affiliates I think not enough this into Affiliates I think not enough Affiliates think about what bottom of

Affiliates think about what bottom of Affiliates think about what bottom of funnel is and it's like that is a

funnel is and it's like that is a funnel is and it's like that is a valuable Insight where it's low volume

valuable Insight where it's low volume valuable Insight where it's low volume but the clicks that come through are

but the clicks that come through are but the clicks that come through are like high int like it's it's sales that

like high int like it's it's sales that like high int like it's it's sales that are people ready to buy I mean if

are people ready to buy I mean if are people ready to buy I mean if they're going through this documentation

they're going through this documentation they're going through this documentation it's well how did they find it and if it

it's well how did they find it and if it it's well how did they find it and if it through search you've got a high intent

through search you've got a high intent through search you've got a high intent user I think uh a lot of affiliate sites

user I think uh a lot of affiliate sites user I think uh a lot of affiliate sites are missing this concept and going how

are missing this concept and going how are missing this concept and going how can they go deep or super Niche or

can they go deep or super Niche or can they go deep or super Niche or really deep in the content to go let me

really deep in the content to go let me really deep in the content to go let me get some questions

get some questions get some questions answered yeah and when you when you

answered yeah and when you when you answered yeah and when you when you obviously start going down this this

obviously start going down this this obviously start going down this this rabbit hole which is another Rabbit Hole

rabbit hole which is another Rabbit Hole rabbit hole which is another Rabbit Hole um it is correct and listen how crazy

um it is correct and listen how crazy um it is correct and listen how crazy this industry is okay so you have

this industry is okay so you have this industry is okay so you have let's say three major tools okay or

let's say three major tools okay or let's say three major tools okay or let's say two right let's just say the

let's say two right let's just say the let's say two right let's just say the ones that everyone on this podcast is ones that everyone on this podcast is ones that everyone on this podcast is going to know about so you have semrush

going to know about so you have semrush going to know about so you have semrush and you have HF so these two tools are

and you have HF so these two tools are and you have HF so these two tools are going to provide you a set of keywords

going to provide you a set of keywords going to provide you a set of keywords that either they've pulled from that either they've pulled from that either they've pulled from someone's search console they've pulled

someone's search console they've pulled someone's search console they've pulled through apis or they've pulled through

through apis or they've pulled through through apis or they've pulled through Google related searches when something

Google related searches when something Google related searches when something gets when when something gets placed

gets when when something gets placed gets when when something gets placed into the search so every time someone

into the search so every time someone into the search so every time someone also searches a key word on one of these

also searches a key word on one of these also searches a key word on one of these platforms it enters their database okay

platforms it enters their database okay platforms it enters their database okay and persists data so if you look at an

and persists data so if you look at an and persists data so if you look at an HF as an example and you see go put in

HF as an example and you see go put in HF as an example and you see go put in UK type online casino and it will say

UK type online casino and it will say UK type online casino and it will say last updated either 10 seconds ago or 10

last updated either 10 seconds ago or 10 last updated either 10 seconds ago or 10 days ago this is all based on the data

days ago this is all based on the data days ago this is all based on the data persisting from the last time that

persisting from the last time that persisting from the last time that someone searched for that to make a more

someone searched for that to make a more someone searched for that to make a more efficient product which doesn't have

efficient product which doesn't have efficient product which doesn't have weight times so listen how crazy this is

weight times so listen how crazy this is weight times so listen how crazy this is a lot of people are taking their entire

a lot of people are taking their entire a lot of people are taking their entire decision making

decision making decision making process on which key was a Target

process on which key was a Target process on which key was a Target through a tool which everyone else has

through a tool which everyone else has through a tool which everyone else has access to is actively looking at and

access to is actively looking at and access to is actively looking at and basing their decisions on so by

basing their decisions on so by basing their decisions on so by definition everyone's going to be you

definition everyone's going to be you definition everyone's going to be you know I mean by definition doing the same

know I mean by definition doing the same know I mean by definition doing the same thing over and over again and expecting

thing over and over again and expecting thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of

different results is the definition of different results is the definition of insanity yet everyone is looking at

insanity yet everyone is looking at insanity yet everyone is looking at these keywords on the these tools saying

these keywords on the these tools saying these keywords on the these tools saying Hey I want to build up from around this

Hey I want to build up from around this Hey I want to build up from around this and then everyone ends up in a and then everyone ends up in a and then everyone ends up in a competition in some cases where no one

competition in some cases where no one competition in some cases where no one wins John so like what we do is we

wins John so like what we do is we wins John so like what we do is we really help people or rather what what I

really help people or rather what what I really help people or rather what what I started way back when I was working with

started way back when I was working with started way back when I was working with oper when I was working in in in going

oper when I was working in in in going oper when I was working in in in going from technology and then I started from technology and then I started from technology and then I started coming into the space and I started

coming into the space and I started coming into the space and I started working for companies you know I started

working for companies you know I started working for companies you know I started taking a look at like why are we doing

taking a look at like why are we doing taking a look at like why are we doing what we're doing is there money in this

what we're doing is there money in this what we're doing is there money in this particular keyword in this particular

particular keyword in this particular particular keyword in this particular Market or are people just spending so

Market or are people just spending so Market or are people just spending so much money because they're artificially

much money because they're artificially much money because they're artificially inflated by their brand right and you

inflated by their brand right and you inflated by their brand right and you know and and in some cases C Level are

know and and in some cases C Level are know and and in some cases C Level are taking decisions because it looks like

taking decisions because it looks like taking decisions because it looks like SEO is doing well but in actual fact is

SEO is doing well but in actual fact is SEO is doing well but in actual fact is just ranking on its own brand name which

just ranking on its own brand name which just ranking on its own brand name which people are searching for as a result of

people are searching for as a result of people are searching for as a result of of all of the great work that uh that

of all of the great work that uh that of all of the great work that uh that that has been done with affiliates with

that has been done with affiliates with that has been done with affiliates with promotion and so forth so I really

promotion and so forth so I really promotion and so forth so I really started looking into you know like okay

started looking into you know like okay started looking into you know like okay product and I I'm going to say it again product and I I'm going to say it again product and I I'm going to say it again and again and again so that we keep on

and again and again so that we keep on and again and again so that we keep on having a consistent basis for this

having a consistent basis for this having a consistent basis for this conversation because we can go into many conversation because we can go into many conversation because we can go into many different products but online casino

different products but online casino different products but online casino okay so if I I'm looking for the keyword

okay so if I I'm looking for the keyword okay so if I I'm looking for the keyword online casino within again UK Market

online casino within again UK Market online casino within again UK Market position one I need to look at everyone

position one I need to look at everyone position one I need to look at everyone else who's looking at that keyword so else who's looking at that keyword so else who's looking at that keyword so everyone knows about the keyw right

everyone knows about the keyw right everyone knows about the keyw right everyone wants the keyword if you say everyone wants the keyword if you say everyone wants the keyword if you say you don't want traffic from this keyword you don't want traffic from this keyword you don't want traffic from this keyword you're lying right the question is are

you're lying right the question is are you're lying right the question is are you capable of getting there from the

you capable of getting there from the you capable of getting there from the technical perspective are you capable of

technical perspective are you capable of technical perspective are you capable of getting there from the organizational

getting there from the organizational getting there from the organizational perspective so if you're we need to make

perspective so if you're we need to make perspective so if you're we need to make update are you capable of prioritizing

update are you capable of prioritizing update are you capable of prioritizing SEO once what is it going to take to get

SEO once what is it going to take to get SEO once what is it going to take to get there what have people been doing there

there what have people been doing there there what have people been doing there for all these years how much is it

for all these years how much is it for all these years how much is it really going to cost and I'm not talking

really going to cost and I'm not talking really going to cost and I'm not talking about that's that BS approach you know

about that's that BS approach you know about that's that BS approach you know where like sometimes you have people who

where like sometimes you have people who where like sometimes you have people who go in and say you know like people

go in and say you know like people go in and say you know like people pretend like they have a hotline to pretend like they have a hotline to pretend like they have a hotline to Google like their grandmother right and

Google like their grandmother right and Google like their grandmother right and say like yeah you know h you just give

say like yeah you know h you just give say like yeah you know h you just give me this much money and in two months

me this much money and in two months me this much money and in two months you're going to get click it's BS you

you're going to get click it's BS you you're going to get click it's BS you need to look at the data approach you need to look at the data approach you need to look at the data approach you need to look at number one the

need to look at number one the need to look at number one the performance of the site or the operator

performance of the site or the operator performance of the site or the operator of the affiliate site or the operator

of the affiliate site or the operator of the affiliate site or the operator itself to understand what the metrics

itself to understand what the metrics itself to understand what the metrics are and how those convert into money at

are and how those convert into money at are and how those convert into money at the end of the day and when you run this

the end of the day and when you run this the end of the day and when you run this investigation if you really run it the

investigation if you really run it the investigation if you really run it the way that we do um which is something I

way that we do um which is something I way that we do um which is something I built from the ground up and I've built from the ground up and I've built from the ground up and I've perfected over like the past 10 years

perfected over like the past 10 years perfected over like the past 10 years right um You can really determine

right um You can really determine right um You can really determine at least if everything goes your way and

at least if everything goes your way and at least if everything goes your way and everything works out great for you and

everything works out great for you and everything works out great for you and there are no Google update and people

there are no Google update and people there are no Google update and people keep on moving at the same Pace they're

keep on moving at the same Pace they're keep on moving at the same Pace they're currently moving if you already ploted

currently moving if you already ploted currently moving if you already ploted out if there's money to be made or not

out if there's money to be made or not out if there's money to be made or not and you would be surprised John how many

and you would be surprised John how many and you would be surprised John how many times with these really large keywords

times with these really large keywords times with these really large keywords which everyone has access to through the

which everyone has access to through the which everyone has access to through the tools the answer is no if people are

tools the answer is no if people are tools the answer is no if people are overspending and and it doesn't make

overspending and and it doesn't make overspending and and it doesn't make sense because it's it's a it's it's more

sense because it's it's a it's it's more sense because it's it's a it's it's more of a scenario of I'll be there to gain

of a scenario of I'll be there to gain of a scenario of I'll be there to gain market share rather the gra Roi and

market share rather the gra Roi and market share rather the gra Roi and that's when you can start looking at

that's when you can start looking at that's when you can start looking at these other sets of keyword and I'm not

these other sets of keyword and I'm not these other sets of keyword and I'm not going to mention the name of the going to mention the name of the going to mention the name of the individual but let's just say not really

individual but let's just say not really individual but let's just say not really a mentor but let's say someone who

a mentor but let's say someone who a mentor but let's say someone who guided me in the past and this was the

guided me in the past and this was the guided me in the past and this was the thing that they said many years ago in I

thing that they said many years ago in I thing that they said many years ago in I gaming you know at least seven years ago

gaming you know at least seven years ago gaming you know at least seven years ago even before I started Game Changer was

even before I started Game Changer was even before I started Game Changer was like Sean don't focus on the big

like Sean don't focus on the big like Sean don't focus on the big keywords focus on the longtail keywords

keywords focus on the longtail keywords keywords focus on the longtail keywords which probably not a lot of people are

which probably not a lot of people are which probably not a lot of people are landing on but hey if if it's going to

landing on but hey if if it's going to landing on but hey if if it's going to cost me € 10 or30 to get a page live and

cost me € 10 or30 to get a page live and cost me € 10 or30 to get a page live and I get one player every two months but I

I get one player every two months but I I get one player every two months but I get a350 CPA on it's money you know and

get a350 CPA on it's money you know and get a350 CPA on it's money you know and those are the kinds of those are the those are the kinds of those are the those are the kinds of those are the kinds of keywords which unfortunately

kinds of keywords which unfortunately kinds of keywords which unfortunately not all SEO practitioners are geared

not all SEO practitioners are geared not all SEO practitioners are geared tackle why because seos are we we we

tackle why because seos are we we we tackle why because seos are we we we think of ourselves as scientists and

think of ourselves as scientists and think of ourselves as scientists and nerds um and we look at lot of data but

nerds um and we look at lot of data but nerds um and we look at lot of data but what we tend to forget sometimes is the

what we tend to forget sometimes is the what we tend to forget sometimes is the expertise aspect and there's I mean when

expertise aspect and there's I mean when expertise aspect and there's I mean when I'm working on something which I've I'm working on something which I've I'm working on something which I've never done before I'm not an expert at

never done before I'm not an expert at never done before I'm not an expert at my first approach is not only looking at

my first approach is not only looking at my first approach is not only looking at the data but looking at the expertise

the data but looking at the expertise the data but looking at the expertise and finding the correct person who knows

and finding the correct person who knows and finding the correct person who knows everything about that Niche and

everything about that Niche and everything about that Niche and everything about the niche within that

everything about the niche within that everything about the niche within that need right to be able to come up with

need right to be able to come up with need right to be able to come up with the questions that the tools don't give

the questions that the tools don't give the questions that the tools don't give us yes that we know are problems that

us yes that we know are problems that us yes that we know are problems that people are looking to solve

people are looking to solve people are looking to solve and that's where the money is yeah and

and that's where the money is yeah and and that's where the money is yeah and that's what I try to do in affiliate that's what I try to do in affiliate that's what I try to do in affiliate marketing that's why I'm like let me do

marketing that's why I'm like let me do marketing that's why I'm like let me do this one thing really well and make up

this one thing really well and make up this one thing really well and make up my identity I I I saw something on

my identity I I I saw something on my identity I I I saw something on Twitter or X recently that someone was

Twitter or X recently that someone was Twitter or X recently that someone was basically sharing like their own version

basically sharing like their own version basically sharing like their own version of case study they said I had this

of case study they said I had this of case study they said I had this ranking on Google and I removed a an

ranking on Google and I removed a an ranking on Google and I removed a an affiliate link on that page or a whole

affiliate link on that page or a whole affiliate link on that page or a whole bunch of them and they said their bunch of them and they said their bunch of them and they said their rankings increased and I kind of believe

rankings increased and I kind of believe rankings increased and I kind of believe this to be true because i' I have a few

this to be true because i' I have a few this to be true because i' I have a few friends that some of their sites friends that some of their sites friends that some of their sites suffered massively in this series of

suffered massively in this series of suffered massively in this series of Google updates so I've also read that

Google updates so I've also read that Google updates so I've also read that affiliate sites have been kind of affiliate sites have been kind of affiliate sites have been kind of targeted a little bit more at the

targeted a little bit more at the targeted a little bit more at the expense of e-commerce so e-commerce has

expense of e-commerce so e-commerce has expense of e-commerce so e-commerce has gained more whereas affiliate has gained

gained more whereas affiliate has gained gained more whereas affiliate has gained less do you think there's some truth in

less do you think there's some truth in less do you think there's some truth in this where if if a site has too many

this where if if a site has too many this where if if a site has too many affiliate links Google one knows what an

affiliate links Google one knows what an affiliate links Google one knows what an affiliate link is and they're kind of

affiliate link is and they're kind of affiliate link is and they're kind of analyzing your site going is this really

analyzing your site going is this really analyzing your site going is this really good value like do you think this is uh

good value like do you think this is uh good value like do you think this is uh important I'll go back to what we're

important I'll go back to what we're important I'll go back to what we're talking about when we said like what is talking about when we said like what is talking about when we said like what is the purpose of an affiliate site right

the purpose of an affiliate site right the purpose of an affiliate site right um at least from the SEO point of view

um at least from the SEO point of view um at least from the SEO point of view from the SEO point of view the way that

from the SEO point of view the way that from the SEO point of view the way that studiat have been looking at this for so

studiat have been looking at this for so studiat have been looking at this for so so long is and this is the Reason by the

so long is and this is the Reason by the so long is and this is the Reason by the way why as gamblers does so well right

way why as gamblers does so well right way why as gamblers does so well right because they're not just they're not because they're not just they're not because they're not just they're not just just just providing a click path right so so if

providing a click path right so so if providing a click path right so so if you are creating a website which it's

you are creating a website which it's you are creating a website which it's specific purpose is to rank number one

specific purpose is to rank number one specific purpose is to rank number one on best whatever um you know best story

on best whatever um you know best story on best whatever um you know best story to control based toilet brush best this

to control based toilet brush best this to control based toilet brush best this whatever it is right and the purpose of

whatever it is right and the purpose of whatever it is right and the purpose of that website is to keep people on that

that website is to keep people on that that website is to keep people on that website for as little as possible and

website for as little as possible and website for as little as possible and click out into an affiliate link then

click out into an affiliate link then click out into an affiliate link then the signals that Google is going to be

the signals that Google is going to be the signals that Google is going to be receiving over time that it's starting

receiving over time that it's starting receiving over time that it's starting to pay more attention to are going to be

to pay more attention to are going to be to pay more attention to are going to be less valuable as a data point than if

less valuable as a data point than if less valuable as a data point than if people had spent more time on the page

people had spent more time on the page people had spent more time on the page maybe they managed to buy the actual

maybe they managed to buy the actual maybe they managed to buy the actual product from the website you know so I

product from the website you know so I product from the website you know so I see that Google is also implementing

see that Google is also implementing see that Google is also implementing features over time and everyone's seeing

features over time and everyone's seeing features over time and everyone's seeing this right where they're effectively

this right where they're effectively this right where they're effectively putting affiliate links and and and

putting affiliate links and and and putting affiliate links and and and links to these different in the search

links to these different in the search links to these different in the search result themselves okay so I would say

result themselves okay so I would say result themselves okay so I would say that over time over time the concept is

that over time over time the concept is that over time over time the concept is going to start moving in the different

going to start moving in the different going to start moving in the different direction but what we know and even from

direction but what we know and even from direction but what we know and even from the latest Google

the latest Google the latest Google League which by the way I mean we could

League which by the way I mean we could League which by the way I mean we could talk all day about those Google leag

talk all day about those Google leag talk all day about those Google leag right but that could be another uh

right but that could be another uh right but that could be another uh another episode easily I you know I mean

another episode easily I you know I mean another episode easily I you know I mean the nice thing about Google is like if

the nice thing about Google is like if the nice thing about Google is like if you if you've been getting slapped in

you if you've been getting slapped in you if you've been getting slapped in the face by Google for over 10 years

the face by Google for over 10 years the face by Google for over 10 years like I have and some other people you

like I have and some other people you like I have and some other people you know you there are some things that you

know you there are some things that you know you there are some things that you know happen right so you know that as an

know happen right so you know that as an know happen right so you know that as an example Google um does something with

example Google um does something with example Google um does something with chrome right and if you're building pbn

chrome right and if you're building pbn chrome right and if you're building pbn you might want to use Firefox but you

you might want to use Firefox but you you might want to use Firefox but you know you sound paranoid like okay look

know you sound paranoid like okay look know you sound paranoid like okay look at that guy who's saying that all Google

at that guy who's saying that all Google at that guy who's saying that all Google products should be avoided yada yada

products should be avoided yada yada products should be avoided yada yada yada you know that traffic is impacting

yada you know that traffic is impacting yada you know that traffic is impacting SE results you know that there's a

SE results you know that there's a SE results you know that there's a trending effect on Google you know that

trending effect on Google you know that trending effect on Google you know that all of these things are happening and

all of these things are happening and all of these things are happening and seeing those leaks come out and actually

seeing those leaks come out and actually seeing those leaks come out and actually seeing some of the variables which are

seeing some of the variables which are seeing some of the variables which are related to those particular features

related to those particular features related to those particular features although it's unclear how they worked

although it's unclear how they worked although it's unclear how they worked and the source of information if it's

and the source of information if it's and the source of information if it's correct if it's misguided

correct if it's misguided correct if it's misguided you know whatever it might be everyone

you know whatever it might be everyone you know whatever it might be everyone tends to know what's going on in their

tends to know what's going on in their tends to know what's going on in their Niche quite well it's only until

Niche quite well it's only until Niche quite well it's only until something leaks that we say this is

something leaks that we say this is something leaks that we say this is actually happening so for me to tell you

actually happening so for me to tell you actually happening so for me to tell you hey look if you have affiliate links on

hey look if you have affiliate links on hey look if you have affiliate links on your website you might get potentially

your website you might get potentially your website you might get potentially um less rewarded than other websites

um less rewarded than other websites um less rewarded than other websites which are offering specific product I

which are offering specific product I which are offering specific product I would say do you think that your website

would say do you think that your website would say do you think that your website is offering the best user experience CU

is offering the best user experience CU is offering the best user experience CU we know that Google is factoring in we know that Google is factoring in we know that Google is factoring in traff and if the answer is no and people

traff and if the answer is no and people traff and if the answer is no and people are just coming onto your product and are just coming onto your product and are just coming onto your product and leaving and there's no reason to come leaving and there's no reason to come leaving and there's no reason to come back don't only look at the affiliate

back don't only look at the affiliate back don't only look at the affiliate links look at everything else you have links look at everything else you have links look at everything else you have too many ads on your website is it's

too many ads on your website is it's too many ads on your website is it's just sucky experience in general you

just sucky experience in general you just sucky experience in general you know so I mean i' be lying to you if I

know so I mean i' be lying to you if I know so I mean i' be lying to you if I said yes it is having an impact and I'll

said yes it is having an impact and I'll said yes it is having an impact and I'll tell you why John also because if you

tell you why John also because if you tell you why John also because if you look at how the gaming Niche performs

look at how the gaming Niche performs look at how the gaming Niche performs versus the medical versus the medical versus the medical Niche versus the coupon niche

Niche versus the coupon niche Niche versus the coupon niche versus all of these

versus all of these versus all of these niches in different

niches in different niches in different territories it's like how I see it is

territories it's like how I see it is territories it's like how I see it is that Google has that Google has that Google has police and the police it puts onto

police and the police it puts onto police and the police it puts onto certain certain certain industries with a harsh of force

industries with a harsh of force industries with a harsh of force depending on the they medical you you

depending on the they medical you you depending on the they medical you you know typically if you're writing content

know typically if you're writing content know typically if you're writing content it shouldn't just be you know um we're

it shouldn't just be you know um we're it shouldn't just be you know um we're going to be providing people medical going to be providing people medical going to be providing people medical advice it should be from a trained advice it should be from a trained advice it should be from a trained professional right it shouldn't be from

professional right it shouldn't be from professional right it shouldn't be from you know a a fiver a Fiverr content

you know a a fiver a Fiverr content you know a a fiver a Fiverr content writer kind of thing you know so maybe

writer kind of thing you know so maybe writer kind of thing you know so maybe that maybe they want that's for Google

that maybe they want that's for Google that maybe they want that's for Google to do the AI content version of that but

to do the AI content version of that but to do the AI content version of that but that's a that's a whole other joke yeah

that's a that's a whole other joke yeah that's a that's a whole other joke yeah so you know what I'm saying so I mean I

so you know what I'm saying so I mean I so you know what I'm saying so I mean I mean Ian FN had mentioned a really cool

mean Ian FN had mentioned a really cool mean Ian FN had mentioned a really cool uh result that SG had had provided um at

uh result that SG had had provided um at uh result that SG had had provided um at at igaming next which had to do with you

at igaming next which had to do with you at igaming next which had to do with you know something to do with drinking your know something to do with drinking your know something to do with drinking your urine is healthy or something like that

urine is healthy or something like that urine is healthy or something like that from G so yeah look every industry every

from G so yeah look every industry every from G so yeah look every industry every Niche Works differently and it even goes

Niche Works differently and it even goes Niche Works differently and it even goes as far as if you're going to look at the

as far as if you're going to look at the as far as if you're going to look at the online casino space in UK versus the

online casino space in UK versus the online casino space in UK versus the Netherlands okay you there are a lot

Netherlands okay you there are a lot Netherlands okay you there are a lot more if you look at the link provided in

more if you look at the link provided in more if you look at the link provided in the Netherlands link directories

the Netherlands link directories the Netherlands link directories everywhere very low quality then you go

everywhere very low quality then you go everywhere very low quality then you go into some Asian market and you just see

into some Asian market and you just see into some Asian market and you just see you know just because you want to see you know just because you want to see you know just because you want to see what's going on over there and you see

what's going on over there and you see what's going on over there and you see it's all pbn it's all the crappiest sit

it's all pbn it's all the crappiest sit it's all pbn it's all the crappiest sit you can possibly imagine which are

you can possibly imagine which are you can possibly imagine which are linking and purposely being linked back

linking and purposely being linked back linking and purposely being linked back to the asset and they're winning you

to the asset and they're winning you to the asset and they're winning you know then you have some people who do it know then you have some people who do it know then you have some people who do it the correct way also who are also the correct way also who are also the correct way also who are also winning so it's like one r one size fits

winning so it's like one r one size fits winning so it's like one r one size fits all you have Africa and in Africa in

all you have Africa and in Africa in all you have Africa and in Africa in some cases there's like a clear a clear

some cases there's like a clear a clear some cases there's like a clear a clear there's a clear hearing towards

there's a clear hearing towards there's a clear hearing towards searching for brand versus searching for

searching for brand versus searching for searching for brand versus searching for keyword so it looks like though people keyword so it looks like though people keyword so it looks like though people just aren't educated right all

just aren't educated right all just aren't educated right all particular areas and the stuff which is

particular areas and the stuff which is particular areas and the stuff which is happening over is absolutely mad also so

happening over is absolutely mad also so happening over is absolutely mad also so I wouldn't say that hey these having

I wouldn't say that hey these having I wouldn't say that hey these having affiliate site on your link is going to affiliate site on your link is going to affiliate site on your link is going to get you negatively impacted I would say

get you negatively impacted I would say get you negatively impacted I would say like okay look at your Niche look at the

like okay look at your Niche look at the like okay look at your Niche look at the language that people are searching in

language that people are searching in language that people are searching in the language that the browser say look

the language that the browser say look the language that the browser say look at the location that you're set to okay

at the location that you're set to okay at the location that you're set to okay and there's a there's a difference

and there's a there's a difference and there's a there's a difference there's a difference you know where there's a difference you know where there's a difference you know where Google doesn't distinguish h of flying

Google doesn't distinguish h of flying Google doesn't distinguish h of flying between State okay and provinces so if

between State okay and provinces so if between State okay and provinces so if you're in the states there's us and if

you're in the states there's us and if you're in the states there's us and if you want to Target that particular State

you want to Target that particular State you want to Target that particular State you do us SL Oregon SL Washington

you do us SL Oregon SL Washington you do us SL Oregon SL Washington whatever right give that indication but

whatever right give that indication but whatever right give that indication but it's like Google Sees as you are the

it's like Google Sees as you are the it's like Google Sees as you are the United States but there are differences

United States but there are differences United States but there are differences in the serps in different areas and

in the serps in different areas and in the serps in different areas and locations that you're in in particular

locations that you're in in particular locations that you're in in particular different countries so since it gets so

different countries so since it gets so different countries so since it gets so minute and it gets so specific to those

minute and it gets so specific to those minute and it gets so specific to those particular keywords you it's difficult

particular keywords you it's difficult particular keywords you it's difficult for me to come up with a generalization

for me to come up with a generalization for me to come up with a generalization and say hey affiliate beings can get hit

and say hey affiliate beings can get hit and say hey affiliate beings can get hit when in so many cases they don't you

when in so many cases they don't you when in so many cases they don't you know so you mentioned before that you

know so you mentioned before that you know so you mentioned before that you think that there's going to be maybe

think that there's going to be maybe think that there's going to be maybe just a bunch of bigger Affiliates that

just a bunch of bigger Affiliates that just a bunch of bigger Affiliates that have like a better product so if

have like a better product so if have like a better product so if Google's making changes we're going to

Google's making changes we're going to Google's making changes we're going to see some Affiliates shaken out of the see some Affiliates shaken out of the see some Affiliates shaken out of the market so if that's true would you say

market so if that's true would you say market so if that's true would you say that it might be important for that it might be important for that it might be important for Affiliates to be considering first-party

Affiliates to be considering first-party Affiliates to be considering first-party data where you're kind of going okay

data where you're kind of going okay data where you're kind of going okay instead of sending you all these like

instead of sending you all these like instead of sending you all these like pages of links it's kind of going let's

pages of links it's kind of going let's pages of links it's kind of going let's not just build a product to keep you

not just build a product to keep you not just build a product to keep you here but let's go out of our way to go

here but let's go out of our way to go here but let's go out of our way to go what can we do to earn the trust to get

what can we do to earn the trust to get what can we do to earn the trust to get your name your email your address your

your name your email your address your your name your email your address your phone I kind of think these things are

phone I kind of think these things are phone I kind of think these things are going to become more important in going to become more important in going to become more important in affiliate marketing and I want to get affiliate marketing and I want to get affiliate marketing and I want to get your your your takee oh yeah it's it's again the old

takee oh yeah it's it's again the old takee oh yeah it's it's again the old model which is rank as quickly as

model which is rank as quickly as model which is rank as quickly as possible stay there as long as possible

possible stay there as long as possible possible stay there as long as possible get a click to leave your website as

get a click to leave your website as get a click to leave your website as quickly as possible and make money to

quickly as possible and make money to quickly as possible and make money to now having a product like so if you have

now having a product like so if you have now having a product like so if you have a newsletter if you have sidebars if you

a newsletter if you have sidebars if you a newsletter if you have sidebars if you try to get people to register you know

try to get people to register you know try to get people to register you know all of these different these different

all of these different these different all of these different these different concepts they kind of trade away from

concepts they kind of trade away from concepts they kind of trade away from what makes you money so that's why

what makes you money so that's why what makes you money so that's why people don't typically do it because if

people don't typically do it because if people don't typically do it because if you try to get someone to sign up and

you try to get someone to sign up and you try to get someone to sign up and then you try to remarket them in the

then you try to remarket them in the then you try to remarket them in the future it can be seen kind of negative

future it can be seen kind of negative future it can be seen kind of negative as an approach just because you might

as an approach just because you might as an approach just because you might potentially risk uh you might

potentially risk uh you might potentially risk uh you might potentially risk number one that they potentially risk number one that they potentially risk number one that they sign up but they don't give you the

sign up but they don't give you the sign up but they don't give you the right to Market to them via email so

right to Market to them via email so right to Market to them via email so that's like one that's like one that's like one R um but more important guy would say

R um but more important guy would say R um but more important guy would say create something of value value you know

create something of value value you know create something of value value you know create something of value like and and a

create something of value like and and a create something of value like and and a tool right so I mean way back had built

tool right so I mean way back had built tool right so I mean way back had built a a tool um that had helped people co uh

a a tool um that had helped people co uh a a tool um that had helped people co uh which help people understand the price which help people understand the price which help people understand the price that they should pay for a link you know that they should pay for a link you know that they should pay for a link you know so you put in the domain it's calcat the

so you put in the domain it's calcat the so you put in the domain it's calcat the Dr of the different G and it comes up

Dr of the different G and it comes up Dr of the different G and it comes up with an average price based on a huge

with an average price based on a huge with an average price based on a huge amount of factors that we had that we

amount of factors that we had that we amount of factors that we had that we had cooked into our system yeah that's

had cooked into our system yeah that's had cooked into our system yeah that's valuable valuable valuable that's valuable you know so like you're

that's valuable you know so like you're that's valuable you know so like you're not only going to have people who land not only going to have people who land not only going to have people who land on your product but they're also going on your product but they're also going on your product but they're also going to want to um get value out of it and

to want to um get value out of it and to want to um get value out of it and they're going to want to receive update

they're going to want to receive update they're going to want to receive update that's something you have to think about that's something you have to think about that's something you have to think about and I think that right

and I think that right and I think that right now if you're only getting value from

now if you're only getting value from now if you're only getting value from search engines then you need to milk it

search engines then you need to milk it search engines then you need to milk it as quickly as possible because it's in

as quickly as possible because it's in as quickly as possible because it's in some cases so expensive to compete at

some cases so expensive to compete at some cases so expensive to compete at the highest levels but if you're looking

the highest levels but if you're looking the highest levels but if you're looking at like PPC in some cases if you don't

at like PPC in some cases if you don't at like PPC in some cases if you don't get a conversion every three cricks

get a conversion every three cricks get a conversion every three cricks you're losing money yeah you know and

you're losing money yeah you know and you're losing money yeah you know and you're breaking even up the three cricks

you're breaking even up the three cricks you're breaking even up the three cricks so it's tough to see that people who

so it's tough to see that people who so it's tough to see that people who have invested so much money and are only

have invested so much money and are only have invested so much money and are only relying on the Google aspect of thing

relying on the Google aspect of thing relying on the Google aspect of thing cannot adopt these approaches because if

cannot adopt these approaches because if cannot adopt these approaches because if they do they could potentially be losing

they do they could potentially be losing they do they could potentially be losing money on the amount of money that money on the amount of money that money on the amount of money that they've invested versus what they're they've invested versus what they're they've invested versus what they're able to gain outward but then there are

able to gain outward but then there are able to gain outward but then there are other ways on those assets that people

other ways on those assets that people other ways on those assets that people can can can generate um reason for for people to

generate um reason for for people to generate um reason for for people to come back and I mean streamers do a

come back and I mean streamers do a come back and I mean streamers do a great job of this you know so I always

great job of this you know so I always great job of this you know so I always thought what how great would it be if as

thought what how great would it be if as thought what how great would it be if as an example a Jake Paul or a Logan Paul

an example a Jake Paul or a Logan Paul an example a Jake Paul or a Logan Paul you know at to set up their own website

you know at to set up their own website you know at to set up their own website their own gambling website and you can

their own gambling website and you can their own gambling website and you can actually then fun a huge audience over

actually then fun a huge audience over actually then fun a huge audience over there right and then which is

there right and then which is there right and then which is effectively what a twitch streamer is effectively what a twitch streamer is effectively what a twitch streamer is doing or a streamer in general for the

doing or a streamer in general for the doing or a streamer in general for the casino industry um and then build those

casino industry um and then build those casino industry um and then build those assets in a way which are not focused on

assets in a way which are not focused on assets in a way which are not focused on SEO only where you have this kind of

SEO only where you have this kind of SEO only where you have this kind of uh you you have to get to get

uh you you have to get to get uh you you have to get to get performance out of it so you kind of performance out of it so you kind of performance out of it so you kind of have to take certain decisions but you

have to take certain decisions but you have to take certain decisions but you also have traffic coming from different

also have traffic coming from different also have traffic coming from different sources that you can treat differently

sources that you can treat differently sources that you can treat differently and add and provide value to which I

and add and provide value to which I and add and provide value to which I think uh compounds that actually gives

think uh compounds that actually gives think uh compounds that actually gives you SEO power which yeah if you have if

you SEO power which yeah if you have if you SEO power which yeah if you have if you have if you're offering something of you have if you're offering something of you have if you're offering something of value number one people link to it so

value number one people link to it so value number one people link to it so they reference it number two people will

they reference it number two people will they reference it number two people will return and visit it again so like you

return and visit it again so like you return and visit it again so like you know I mean a m will have something know I mean a m will have something know I mean a m will have something called the M salary calculator right I

called the M salary calculator right I called the M salary calculator right I mean how many people are m going for the

mean how many people are m going for the mean how many people are m going for the salary calculator and checking their

salary calculator and checking their salary calculator and checking their salary and how much money the government

salary and how much money the government salary and how much money the government takes and I how many people are doing

takes and I how many people are doing takes and I how many people are doing that while they're at work you know what

that while they're at work you know what that while they're at work you know what I'm saying so um I mean user Behavior

I'm saying so um I mean user Behavior I'm saying so um I mean user Behavior value um user signals traffic these are

value um user signals traffic these are value um user signals traffic these are all things which are going to help in

all things which are going to help in all things which are going to help in the future are helping right now and

the future are helping right now and the future are helping right now and ultimately the longer that you hold like

ultimately the longer that you hold like ultimately the longer that you hold like we're we're in an attention economy so

we're we're in an attention economy so we're we're in an attention economy so in Google we're just focusing on the

in Google we're just focusing on the in Google we're just focusing on the attention of a search and intent and

attention of a search and intent and attention of a search and intent and giving them the answer we're just trying

giving them the answer we're just trying giving them the answer we're just trying to get in between that right that's what to get in between that right that's what to get in between that right that's what we're trying to do but if you look at

we're trying to do but if you look at we're trying to do but if you look at like the typical attention that a user

like the typical attention that a user like the typical attention that a user has like what's going to happen we're

has like what's going to happen we're has like what's going to happen we're going to get off this podcast we maybe

going to get off this podcast we maybe going to get off this podcast we maybe we'll have a chat with each other we'll have a chat with each other we'll have a chat with each other afterwards we'll go you know check out

afterwards we'll go you know check out afterwards we'll go you know check out our s we'll go on LinkedIn then we'll

our s we'll go on LinkedIn then we'll our s we'll go on LinkedIn then we'll check our WhatsApp and then we'll check

check our WhatsApp and then we'll check check our WhatsApp and then we'll check our um then we'll check our Skype then

our um then we'll check our Skype then our um then we'll check our Skype then we'll check our internet systems you

we'll check our internet systems you we'll check our internet systems you know our teams our this or that then

know our teams our this or that then know our teams our this or that then we'll come back to maybe we'll go on

we'll come back to maybe we'll go on we'll come back to maybe we'll go on Instagram like a photo go to some so you

Instagram like a photo go to some so you Instagram like a photo go to some so you have been split as a person into a

have been split as a person into a have been split as a person into a thousand pieces and the area that you

thousand pieces and the area that you thousand pieces and the area that you touch brings out a different version of

touch brings out a different version of touch brings out a different version of yourself which needs to be spoken to in

yourself which needs to be spoken to in yourself which needs to be spoken to in a different way agreed so we are talking

a different way agreed so we are talking a different way agreed so we are talking about tackling the search intent I want

about tackling the search intent I want about tackling the search intent I want you are the you are looking for an you are the you are looking for an you are the you are looking for an answer to your question but we're

answer to your question but we're answer to your question but we're ignoring everything

ignoring everything ignoring everything else yeah so

else yeah so else yeah so uh last question is what do you see of

uh last question is what do you see of uh last question is what do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as it

the future of affiliate marketing as it the future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business

intelligence that's a tough one Joe yeah intelligence that's a tough one Joe yeah well again like you know I think it's a

well again like you know I think it's a well again like you know I think it's a great question for you because I think great question for you because I think great question for you because I think you're a very good Problem Solver and my

you're a very good Problem Solver and my you're a very good Problem Solver and my belief is that one of your skill sets is

belief is that one of your skill sets is belief is that one of your skill sets is pattern recognition and I think you've

pattern recognition and I think you've pattern recognition and I think you've already seen the patterns well before

already seen the patterns well before already seen the patterns well before Google's made all these changes which is

Google's made all these changes which is Google's made all these changes which is you know build a better product uh data

you know build a better product uh data you know build a better product uh data can get you answers to things um I I

can get you answers to things um I I can get you answers to things um I I think applying that concept is actually

think applying that concept is actually think applying that concept is actually you know one of the strongest insights

you know one of the strongest insights you know one of the strongest insights can you build a product that answers

can you build a product that answers can you build a product that answers questions or is data driven I don't

questions or is data driven I don't questions or is data driven I don't think that like I can't think of many

think that like I can't think of many think that like I can't think of many data driven affiliate sites out there

data driven affiliate sites out there data driven affiliate sites out there they're more product first which is

they're more product first which is they're more product first which is great but it's like how do you make an

great but it's like how do you make an great but it's like how do you make an app or how do you make a plugin I think

app or how do you make a plugin I think app or how do you make a plugin I think these things are like the real like your

these things are like the real like your these things are like the real like your experience is business intelligence in

experience is business intelligence in experience is business intelligence in SEO which can apply to anything I think

SEO which can apply to anything I think SEO which can apply to anything I think I think I think I think that something that I've never seen done

that something that I've never seen done that something that I've never seen done right at least in my limited experience

right at least in my limited experience right at least in my limited experience I haven't delved into this in detail is

I haven't delved into this in detail is I haven't delved into this in detail is attribution modeling yeah I've never

attribution modeling yeah I've never attribution modeling yeah I've never I've never really seen like a tangible

I've never really seen like a tangible I've never really seen like a tangible attribution model which I can say I can

attribution model which I can say I can attribution model which I can say I can trust um

trust um trust um and like I think there are I think there

and like I think there are I think there and like I think there are I think there are two areas or would say three main

are two areas or would say three main are two areas or would say three main areas which I'd like to see in the areas which I'd like to see in the areas which I'd like to see in the future number one is I want to

future number one is I want to future number one is I want to understand and this is what's this is

understand and this is what's this is understand and this is what's this is what's I focused on for a long period of

what's I focused on for a long period of what's I focused on for a long period of time and adopted I want to understand a

time and adopted I want to understand a time and adopted I want to understand a realistic budget and what I get out of

realistic budget and what I get out of realistic budget and what I get out of it okay and I want something which that

it okay and I want something which that it okay and I want something which that trails that Trails over so not something

trails that Trails over so not something trails that Trails over so not something which is a BS number and then we start

which is a BS number and then we start which is a BS number and then we start and then something completely different and then something completely different and then something completely different you know I want something which is based you know I want something which is based you know I want something which is based on data that hey if we do this that and

on data that hey if we do this that and on data that hey if we do this that and that we can expect within the Border

that we can expect within the Border that we can expect within the Border within the range of x amount of results

within the range of x amount of results within the range of x amount of results so that would be something and that's on so that would be something and that's on so that would be something and that's on performance-based approach right so that

performance-based approach right so that performance-based approach right so that would be from a bi point of view I'd

would be from a bi point of view I'd would be from a bi point of view I'd like to be able to build out business

like to be able to build out business like to be able to build out business plans automatically right and trade them

plans automatically right and trade them plans automatically right and trade them aut about and then what I would like to

aut about and then what I would like to aut about and then what I would like to do from the business intelligence point

do from the business intelligence point do from the business intelligence point of view is I would like to trade the

of view is I would like to trade the of view is I would like to trade the performance of the business I would like

performance of the business I would like performance of the business I would like to trade the actual performance versus

to trade the actual performance versus to trade the actual performance versus the business plan and why would I want

the business plan and why would I want the business plan and why would I want to do that I'd want to do that because

to do that I'd want to do that because to do that I'd want to do that because if I do that enough and I have enough

if I do that enough and I have enough if I do that enough and I have enough people doing it I collect a data set

people doing it I collect a data set people doing it I collect a data set that can then be applied against

that can then be applied against that can then be applied against benchmarking and then you can start

benchmarking and then you can start benchmarking and then you can start implementing intelligence around the

implementing intelligence around the implementing intelligence around the different data points to start trading

different data points to start trading different data points to start trading towards what patterns are going to

towards what patterns are going to towards what patterns are going to emerge and make and refine uh projection

emerge and make and refine uh projection emerge and make and refine uh projection as well as a trading kind of

as well as a trading kind of as well as a trading kind of understanding of like how it's going and understanding of like how it's going and understanding of like how it's going and then ultimately understanding like from

then ultimately understanding like from then ultimately understanding like from the attribution side of things where the

the attribution side of things where the the attribution side of things where the money is actually coming from you know

money is actually coming from you know money is actually coming from you know so I mean like from Game Changer point

so I mean like from Game Changer point so I mean like from Game Changer point of view I mean building a brand is great

of view I mean building a brand is great of view I mean building a brand is great because I mean most people that come to

because I mean most people that come to because I mean most people that come to us uh or rather a lot of the great

us uh or rather a lot of the great us uh or rather a lot of the great people that come to us are people that

people that come to us are people that people that come to us are people that come to us because we are a brand we

come to us because we are a brand we come to us because we are a brand we have had results over a significant

have had results over a significant have had results over a significant period of time we're here to stay we've

period of time we're here to stay we've period of time we're here to stay we've been here for a while and you know it's

been here for a while and you know it's been here for a while and you know it's it's difficult to say like we got this it's difficult to say like we got this it's difficult to say like we got this customer from this event or we got this

customer from this event or we got this customer from this event or we got this A customer from this online form or this

A customer from this online form or this A customer from this online form or this that and the other because someone comes

that and the other because someone comes that and the other because someone comes and you know contacts us they might have

and you know contacts us they might have and you know contacts us they might have searched for a keyword or might have searched for a keyword or might have searched for a keyword or might have been presented for it um and that might

been presented for it um and that might been presented for it um and that might get the attribution or they might have

get the attribution or they might have get the attribution or they might have seen I'm a tall guy they might have seen

seen I'm a tall guy they might have seen seen I'm a tall guy they might have seen you walk past an event shake hands with

you walk past an event shake hands with you walk past an event shake hands with someone say I need to speak to that guy

someone say I need to speak to that guy someone say I need to speak to that guy um or they might have heard us speak or um or they might have heard us speak or um or they might have heard us speak or they might be watching this podcast they might be watching this podcast they might be watching this podcast right or I recommended you to a friend

right or I recommended you to a friend right or I recommended you to a friend and then they Googled your name and then

and then they Googled your name and then and then they Googled your name and then the attribution is Google not from

the attribution is Google not from the attribution is Google not from me yeah you know so that's that's

me yeah you know so that's that's me yeah you know so that's that's something which I'd like to see

something which I'd like to see something which I'd like to see um more of in the future let's say so

um more of in the future let's say so um more of in the future let's say so let's say projecting so business plans

let's say projecting so business plans let's say projecting so business plans versus actual versus actual versus actual performance

performance performance versus understanding where the

versus understanding where the versus understanding where the performance is really coming

performance is really coming performance is really coming from I think you've asked yourself uh

from I think you've asked yourself uh from I think you've asked yourself uh the next uh uh super app you could build

the next uh uh super app you could build the next uh uh super app you could build to do this uh maybe AI analysis of going

to do this uh maybe AI analysis of going to do this uh maybe AI analysis of going what would the search and PPC value be

what would the search and PPC value be what would the search and PPC value be what would the road map be what do you what would the road map be what do you what would the road map be what do you need to do what is the competition

need to do what is the competition need to do what is the competition analysis uh what are like you know the

analysis uh what are like you know the analysis uh what are like you know the page Optimizer Pros or the like you know

page Optimizer Pros or the like you know page Optimizer Pros or the like you know just to be able to analyze a site and just to be able to analyze a site and just to be able to analyze a site and going this is what you're competing going this is what you're competing going this is what you're competing against from every

against from every against from every angle yeah and and the truth is that you

angle yeah and and the truth is that you angle yeah and and the truth is that you don't need to have you know a huge

don't need to have you know a huge don't need to have you know a huge customer database to do that because all

customer database to do that because all customer database to do that because all of the information is basically public

of the information is basically public of the information is basically public it's online the only thing that you're it's online the only thing that you're it's online the only thing that you're missing is the financial performance and

missing is the financial performance and missing is the financial performance and that's where you come in

that's where you come in that's where you come in John we could so we'll work on that big

John we could so we'll work on that big John we could so we'll work on that big project so Sean uh thanks so much you're

project so Sean uh thanks so much you're project so Sean uh thanks so much you're welcome to be on as another guest yes I

welcome to be on as another guest yes I welcome to be on as another guest yes I know there's a lot of things we can talk

know there's a lot of things we can talk know there's a lot of things we can talk about how can people get a hold of

about how can people get a hold of about how can people get a hold of you oh yeah um feel free to reach out to

you oh yeah um feel free to reach out to you oh yeah um feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn I'm always responding to

me on LinkedIn I'm always responding to me on LinkedIn I'm always responding to all my messages um you can come to our

all my messages um you can come to our all my messages um you can come to our website contact us but please feel free

website contact us but please feel free website contact us but please feel free to go through Linkin uh it's the easiest

to go through Linkin uh it's the easiest to go through Linkin uh it's the easiest and most approachable good way to reach

and most approachable good way to reach and most approachable good way to reach me okay you can do that I'll include all

me okay you can do that I'll include all me okay you can do that I'll include all the notes in the uh include all of that

the notes in the uh include all of that the notes in the uh include all of that information in the show notes and it's

information in the show notes and it's information in the show notes and it's gamechanger.com as well Sean thank you

gamechanger.com as well Sean thank you gamechanger.com as well Sean thank you so much for doing this thank you so much

so much for doing this thank you so much so much for doing this thank you so much John we appreciate your

time thank you for tuning in to the time thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to

this time to ask for a small favor to this time to ask for a small favor to leave a rating and review wherever you

leave a rating and review wherever you leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast that helps us

listen to your podcast that helps us listen to your podcast that helps us expand our reach to rank higher in

expand our reach to rank higher in expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more

podcast directories and reach more podcast directories and reach more listeners