Why Crawl Stats and Server Logs Are the Hidden Gems of SEO with Maja Jovančević

I think the affiliates that are thinking I think the affiliates that are thinking more long term and they are thinking

more long term and they are thinking more long term and they are thinking with the player in mind and like how

with the player in mind and like how with the player in mind and like how much value can I actually bring to the

much value can I actually bring to the much value can I actually bring to the player are probably going to stand at

player are probably going to stand at player are probably going to stand at winners of of this full ordeal game

winners of of this full ordeal game winners of of this full ordeal game whatever is happening right now with the

whatever is happening right now with the whatever is happening right now with the surfs etc but I might be wrong

surfs etc but I might be wrong surfs etc but I might be wrong it's a crazy it's crazy time maybe I'm

it's a crazy it's crazy time maybe I'm it's a crazy it's crazy time maybe I'm too optimistic but I I do believe that

too optimistic but I I do believe that too optimistic but I I do believe that brand building I do believe that you

brand building I do believe that you brand building I do believe that you know reputation building and everything

know reputation building and everything know reputation building and everything else that you can do with the player is

else that you can do with the player is else that you can do with the player is actually helpful to you as well as an

actually helpful to you as well as an actually helpful to you as well as an affiliate your longevity.

affiliate your longevity. affiliate your longevity. I'm John Wright and you're listening to

I'm John Wright and you're listening to I'm John Wright and you're listening to AffiliateBI, the business intelligence

AffiliateBI, the business intelligence AffiliateBI, the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought

and affiliate marketing podcast brought and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by Stata.

to you by Stata. to you by Stata. Welcome to the AffiliateBI podcast.

Welcome to the AffiliateBI podcast. Welcome to the AffiliateBI podcast. Today we're chatting with Maya Yuvanche.

Today we're chatting with Maya Yuvanche. Today we're chatting with Maya Yuvanche. She's the director of SEO at Gen 2 Media

She's the director of SEO at Gen 2 Media She's the director of SEO at Gen 2 Media and she's been the director of SEO and

and she's been the director of SEO and and she's been the director of SEO and many SEO roles for the past six years at

many SEO roles for the past six years at many SEO roles for the past six years at Gaming Innovation Group. She's well

Gaming Innovation Group. She's well Gaming Innovation Group. She's well known in the SEO space, especially in I

known in the SEO space, especially in I known in the SEO space, especially in I gaming as a speaker and she's also a

gaming as a speaker and she's also a gaming as a speaker and she's also a recent author contributor of I gaming

recent author contributor of I gaming recent author contributor of I gaming SEO book, which is amazing. Maya,

SEO book, which is amazing. Maya, SEO book, which is amazing. Maya, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank

welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you, John. Just a small correction. I uh

you, John. Just a small correction. I uh you, John. Just a small correction. I uh I resigned my position at Gen 2. What?

I resigned my position at Gen 2. What? I resigned my position at Gen 2. What? Okay. about a month and a half ago.

Okay. about a month and a half ago. Okay. about a month and a half ago. Okay. So, are you allowed to say what Okay. So, are you allowed to say what Okay. So, are you allowed to say what you're working on now or is that top

you're working on now or is that top you're working on now or is that top secret? It's it's still in progress, but

secret? It's it's still in progress, but secret? It's it's still in progress, but the plan is to actually have a little

the plan is to actually have a little the plan is to actually have a little bit of rest, a little bit some things

bit of rest, a little bit some things bit of rest, a little bit some things that I wanted to do for for the longest

that I wanted to do for for the longest that I wanted to do for for the longest of times and then dive into something

of times and then dive into something of times and then dive into something else. All right, we will chat after. So,

else. All right, we will chat after. So, else. All right, we will chat after. So, let's jump right into the questions.

let's jump right into the questions. let's jump right into the questions. I've gone through the book here and I've gone through the book here and I've gone through the book here and you've given a lot of really good you've given a lot of really good you've given a lot of really good helpful tips and I just want to dive a

helpful tips and I just want to dive a helpful tips and I just want to dive a bit deeper. One thing you talked about

bit deeper. One thing you talked about bit deeper. One thing you talked about is about crawl stats and server logs are

is about crawl stats and server logs are is about crawl stats and server logs are important and you actually include that

important and you actually include that important and you actually include that in some of your interview questions when

in some of your interview questions when in some of your interview questions when you like hiring people. So I want to ask

you like hiring people. So I want to ask you like hiring people. So I want to ask what can affiliates do to one understand

what can affiliates do to one understand what can affiliates do to one understand how valuable this is what they need to

how valuable this is what they need to how valuable this is what they need to look for and do you think there's a way

look for and do you think there's a way look for and do you think there's a way that maybe we could help affiliates set

that maybe we could help affiliates set that maybe we could help affiliates set this up or are there already tools

this up or are there already tools this up or are there already tools that's you know what John just go use

that's you know what John just go use that's you know what John just go use one of these like hrefs or semrush or

one of these like hrefs or semrush or one of these like hrefs or semrush or mangles or something like what is it?

mangles or something like what is it? mangles or something like what is it? Okay, so the crawl stats basically you

Okay, so the crawl stats basically you Okay, so the crawl stats basically you can get them either from Google search

can get them either from Google search can get them either from Google search console or from your actual server log

console or from your actual server log console or from your actual server log files and then you can use whatever tool

files and then you can use whatever tool files and then you can use whatever tool you prefer. Like some SEOs they prefer

you prefer. Like some SEOs they prefer you prefer. Like some SEOs they prefer to do it themselves and some SEOs use

to do it themselves and some SEOs use to do it themselves and some SEOs use Screaming Frog log file analyzer and

Screaming Frog log file analyzer and Screaming Frog log file analyzer and they just figure out like what's

they just figure out like what's they just figure out like what's happening and how Google is accessing

happening and how Google is accessing happening and how Google is accessing your website. And I think this is very

your website. And I think this is very your website. And I think this is very important and especially today because I

important and especially today because I important and especially today because I think in I think in the last couple of

think in I think in the last couple of think in I think in the last couple of months maybe six months to a year and

months maybe six months to a year and months maybe six months to a year and then potentially within the future I

then potentially within the future I then potentially within the future I think Google is going to see a lot of

think Google is going to see a lot of think Google is going to see a lot of problems with resources. We are now

problems with resources. We are now problems with resources. We are now having a huge amount of expansion with

having a huge amount of expansion with having a huge amount of expansion with AI being able to generate really good

AI being able to generate really good AI being able to generate really good content and there are content all over

content and there are content all over content and there are content all over the place being generated and Google

the place being generated and Google the place being generated and Google needs resources to crawl that content to

needs resources to crawl that content to needs resources to crawl that content to index it and to keep it in their index.

index it and to keep it in their index. index it and to keep it in their index. What's happening is that I believe that

What's happening is that I believe that What's happening is that I believe that like while they do this, they're

like while they do this, they're like while they do this, they're probably going to figure out the way to

probably going to figure out the way to probably going to figure out the way to make it easier for them and cheaper for

make it easier for them and cheaper for make it easier for them and cheaper for them to to generate to crawl those

them to to generate to crawl those them to to generate to crawl those resources.

resources. resources. And it's not going to be easy for newer

And it's not going to be easy for newer And it's not going to be easy for newer websites to get crawled as often as

websites to get crawled as often as websites to get crawled as often as possible. And the authority of the

possible. And the authority of the possible. And the authority of the website is probably going to be the

website is probably going to be the website is probably going to be the determining factor whether you get

determining factor whether you get determining factor whether you get crawled or not. We still don't know

crawled or not. We still don't know crawled or not. We still don't know this, but this is something that you can

this, but this is something that you can this, but this is something that you can probably see. So, if you see your your

probably see. So, if you see your your probably see. So, if you see your your crawl analysis and then you see like the

crawl analysis and then you see like the crawl analysis and then you see like the various bots that are trying to access

various bots that are trying to access various bots that are trying to access your website and then you check it by by

your website and then you check it by by your website and then you check it by by let's say Google bot and then you see

let's say Google bot and then you see let's say Google bot and then you see like how often has Google bot to access

like how often has Google bot to access like how often has Google bot to access some of your pages and what is the

some of your pages and what is the some of your pages and what is the server response for those pages. So for

server response for those pages. So for server response for those pages. So for example, if it's a well setup page that

example, if it's a well setup page that example, if it's a well setup page that hasn't been updated for long, it might

hasn't been updated for long, it might hasn't been updated for long, it might be a 304 or for which means just use

be a 304 or for which means just use be a 304 or for which means just use just use what you have in cache or or it

just use what you have in cache or or it just use what you have in cache or or it just might be a 200 or whatever or you

just might be a 200 or whatever or you just might be a 200 or whatever or you might have a lot of 404 pages that you

might have a lot of 404 pages that you might have a lot of 404 pages that you don't know that Google is still trying don't know that Google is still trying don't know that Google is still trying to access etc. So like it is your duty

to access etc. So like it is your duty to access etc. So like it is your duty to manage Google to manage your

to manage Google to manage your to manage Google to manage your website so that you can make Google's

website so that you can make Google's website so that you can make Google's job easier and I think that is very

job easier and I think that is very job easier and I think that is very important for all the SEOs going forward

important for all the SEOs going forward important for all the SEOs going forward just because those resources that Google

just because those resources that Google just because those resources that Google is having are going to become less and

is having are going to become less and is having are going to become less and less because there's the boom of content

less because there's the boom of content less because there's the boom of content that's coming out of the internet and I

that's coming out of the internet and I that's coming out of the internet and I sincerely hope I'm wrong but launching

sincerely hope I'm wrong but launching sincerely hope I'm wrong but launching new website at this point might be

new website at this point might be new website at this point might be really risky unless there is unless you

really risky unless there is unless you really risky unless there is unless you probably are launching them with an

probably are launching them with an probably are launching them with an existing backlink profile on a domain

existing backlink profile on a domain existing backlink profile on a domain with an existing backlink profile or

with an existing backlink profile or with an existing backlink profile or something like that. Now, this is these

something like that. Now, this is these something like that. Now, this is these are the things that are interesting to are the things that are interesting to are the things that are interesting to me. These are the things that I would

me. These are the things that I would me. These are the things that I would like to test. I can see whether I'm

like to test. I can see whether I'm like to test. I can see whether I'm right because at this point like it's

right because at this point like it's right because at this point like it's all a hypothesis how this could be. But

all a hypothesis how this could be. But all a hypothesis how this could be. But I really like SEOs who look at

I really like SEOs who look at I really like SEOs who look at everything like from server log files to

everything like from server log files to everything like from server log files to the content to the links, back links,

the content to the links, back links, the content to the links, back links, everything technical. I like full stack

everything technical. I like full stack everything technical. I like full stack SEOs. I like SEOs who like really want

SEOs. I like SEOs who like really want SEOs. I like SEOs who like really want to improve the website the best way they

to improve the website the best way they to improve the website the best way they can. Okay. And are you one of those SEOs

can. Okay. And are you one of those SEOs can. Okay. And are you one of those SEOs that likes to take the same data sets

that likes to take the same data sets that likes to take the same data sets and put them into customized Looker

and put them into customized Looker and put them into customized Looker Studio dashboards and say you just need

Studio dashboards and say you just need Studio dashboards and say you just need to look at things in a different way to look at things in a different way to look at things in a different way rather than what's presented to you from

rather than what's presented to you from rather than what's presented to you from your Google search console and your your Google search console and your your Google search console and your Google Analytics.

Google Analytics. Google Analytics. I I'm actually I have my own processes

I I'm actually I have my own processes I I'm actually I have my own processes for that. But I am one of those SEOs who

for that. But I am one of those SEOs who for that. But I am one of those SEOs who looks at data like from all the

looks at data like from all the looks at data like from all the different angles because and I remember

different angles because and I remember different angles because and I remember one of my co-workers saying this. There

one of my co-workers saying this. There one of my co-workers saying this. There are two ways to look at this. So if you

are two ways to look at this. So if you are two ways to look at this. So if you have data with data without proper

have data with data without proper have data with data without proper interpretation is nothing. But if you

interpretation is nothing. But if you interpretation is nothing. But if you have an opinion and you don't have the

have an opinion and you don't have the have an opinion and you don't have the data to back it up, it's just an

data to back it up, it's just an data to back it up, it's just an opinion. So it needs to be merged

opinion. So it needs to be merged opinion. So it needs to be merged together. So I really like looking at

together. So I really like looking at together. So I really like looking at data and I want to see what the data

data and I want to see what the data data and I want to see what the data tells me. I don't have a theory and then

tells me. I don't have a theory and then tells me. I don't have a theory and then distort to the data so that it could

distort to the data so that it could distort to the data so that it could correspond to the theory. I really look

correspond to the theory. I really look correspond to the theory. I really look at the data and want to see what the

at the data and want to see what the at the data and want to see what the data tells me. Okay. And what about what

data tells me. Okay. And what about what data tells me. Okay. And what about what do affiliates do when you've wrote

do affiliates do when you've wrote do affiliates do when you've wrote multiple times that Google's aggregating

multiple times that Google's aggregating multiple times that Google's aggregating your data and they're not really sending

your data and they're not really sending your data and they're not really sending you back to your own website. It's like

you back to your own website. It's like you back to your own website. It's like they're just consuming your data, giving

they're just consuming your data, giving they're just consuming your data, giving you the summary and go that's the answer you the summary and go that's the answer you the summary and go that's the answer you're looking for. You got the answer.

you're looking for. You got the answer. you're looking for. You got the answer. What do you want next? What can

What do you want next? What can What do you want next? What can affiliates do to say they're very greedy

affiliates do to say they're very greedy affiliates do to say they're very greedy in the sense like they want the click in the sense like they want the click in the sense like they want the click like the end destination is get the

like the end destination is get the like the end destination is get the click but what would you say affiliates

click but what would you say affiliates click but what would you say affiliates need to do to drive value such that they

need to do to drive value such that they need to do to drive value such that they don't stop and end at Google that they

don't stop and end at Google that they don't stop and end at Google that they continue and they find your site they

continue and they find your site they continue and they find your site they find your brand okay I think like Google

find your brand okay I think like Google find your brand okay I think like Google has been trying to close the gap of the

has been trying to close the gap of the has been trying to close the gap of the click like for some time now like they

click like for some time now like they click like for some time now like they have been like zero click searches for

have been like zero click searches for have been like zero click searches for example when they what that what they

example when they what that what they example when they what that what they just changed with their rich results for

just changed with their rich results for just changed with their rich results for example for a lottery winnings like that

example for a lottery winnings like that example for a lottery winnings like that used to be like huge traffic driver and

used to be like huge traffic driver and used to be like huge traffic driver and like even those pages even though the

like even those pages even though the like even those pages even though the conversion would be low it would still

conversion would be low it would still conversion would be low it would still be like when you when you put in the

be like when you when you put in the be like when you when you put in the traffic it's still a significant

traffic it's still a significant traffic it's still a significant percentage but then like in Google SERs

percentage but then like in Google SERs percentage but then like in Google SERs they just publish the results which they

they just publish the results which they they just publish the results which they scrape from another website and then you

scrape from another website and then you scrape from another website and then you lose that type of traffic so Google has

lose that type of traffic so Google has lose that type of traffic so Google has been doing that for quite a few years

been doing that for quite a few years been doing that for quite a few years now and now with the AI overviews I

now and now with the AI overviews I now and now with the AI overviews I think It really depends on what the

think It really depends on what the think It really depends on what the search is and what the query is etc. The

search is and what the query is etc. The search is and what the query is etc. The data so far has shown that not a lot of

data so far has shown that not a lot of data so far has shown that not a lot of clicks come from the actual EI reviews.

clicks come from the actual EI reviews. clicks come from the actual EI reviews. So if you are mentioned in the EI

So if you are mentioned in the EI So if you are mentioned in the EI reviews if there's a link to your reviews if there's a link to your reviews if there's a link to your website you won't actually get as many

website you won't actually get as many website you won't actually get as many clicks but the second result will get as

clicks but the second result will get as clicks but the second result will get as many clicks. And we were laughing about

many clicks. And we were laughing about many clicks. And we were laughing about it. It's the first time where SEOs don't

it. It's the first time where SEOs don't it. It's the first time where SEOs don't want to be first on Google which because

want to be first on Google which because want to be first on Google which because the AI over would be but it's all about

the AI over would be but it's all about the AI over would be but it's all about the query and the intent of the query

the query and the intent of the query the query and the intent of the query and some of the queries they just might

and some of the queries they just might and some of the queries they just might be too longtail for Google to target at

be too longtail for Google to target at be too longtail for Google to target at this point. We are very much observing

this point. We are very much observing this point. We are very much observing the space and we're also trying to

the space and we're also trying to the space and we're also trying to adjust to what's happening. Okay. You

adjust to what's happening. Okay. You adjust to what's happening. Okay. You talk about a lot of the the black hat

talk about a lot of the the black hat talk about a lot of the the black hat techniques that people have used and

techniques that people have used and techniques that people have used and they can use including parasite SEO. Do

they can use including parasite SEO. Do they can use including parasite SEO. Do you think we're in the era now where

you think we're in the era now where you think we're in the era now where it's like people are feeling it's like people are feeling it's like people are feeling incentivized to go to Reddit and just

incentivized to go to Reddit and just incentivized to go to Reddit and just say I'll give you an example. What if we

say I'll give you an example. What if we say I'll give you an example. What if we wanted Google a overviews to talk

wanted Google a overviews to talk wanted Google a overviews to talk positive about staff? We could go on

positive about staff? We could go on positive about staff? We could go on Reddit and say staff is the best at

Reddit and say staff is the best at Reddit and say staff is the best at aggregating data one. Does that work?

aggregating data one. Does that work? aggregating data one. Does that work? And what would your strategy be to be

And what would your strategy be to be And what would your strategy be to be like the white hat version of that so it

like the white hat version of that so it like the white hat version of that so it actually has maximum impact?

actually has maximum impact? actually has maximum impact? Oh, I don't think Reddit would be the

Oh, I don't think Reddit would be the Oh, I don't think Reddit would be the only thing that's enough. like I would

only thing that's enough. like I would only thing that's enough. like I would expand it. And obviously you need to be

expand it. And obviously you need to be expand it. And obviously you need to be where the users are. So if your users

where the users are. So if your users where the users are. So if your users are on Reddit and and as much as I know

are on Reddit and and as much as I know are on Reddit and and as much as I know Reddit, I think if you just start with a

Reddit, I think if you just start with a Reddit, I think if you just start with a boosting post, they're just going to boosting post, they're just going to boosting post, they're just going to call you out on that. So it's not going

call you out on that. So it's not going call you out on that. So it's not going to work really well and you're going to

to work really well and you're going to to work really well and you're going to have those responses also included. So,

have those responses also included. So, have those responses also included. So, it's really it's an interesting approach

it's really it's an interesting approach it's really it's an interesting approach to get the buzz out there, but it's all

to get the buzz out there, but it's all to get the buzz out there, but it's all entangled in the EAT that you are

entangled in the EAT that you are entangled in the EAT that you are building in terms of mentions for your

building in terms of mentions for your building in terms of mentions for your brand. And at this point, we're entering

brand. And at this point, we're entering brand. And at this point, we're entering the PR territory. So if you want to get

the PR territory. So if you want to get the PR territory. So if you want to get the good PR for your tool, like you can

the good PR for your tool, like you can the good PR for your tool, like you can employ all the PR tactics that a bunch

employ all the PR tactics that a bunch employ all the PR tactics that a bunch of people in PR have already employed

of people in PR have already employed of people in PR have already employed and we all know what they are. It's just

and we all know what they are. It's just and we all know what they are. It's just like you need to put them on the web. So

like you need to put them on the web. So like you need to put them on the web. So just figure out where it could be, what

just figure out where it could be, what just figure out where it could be, what the mentions are, etc. Like I see a lot

the mentions are, etc. Like I see a lot the mentions are, etc. Like I see a lot of SEOs just like testing this. You

of SEOs just like testing this. You of SEOs just like testing this. You don't need technically Reddit. You can

don't need technically Reddit. You can don't need technically Reddit. You can also do it on LinkedIn. It's very much

also do it on LinkedIn. It's very much also do it on LinkedIn. It's very much crawable and and you can also build a

crawable and and you can also build a crawable and and you can also build a reputation there as well. So, it's all

reputation there as well. So, it's all reputation there as well. So, it's all about trial and testing and as every SEO

about trial and testing and as every SEO about trial and testing and as every SEO I would tell you just test it out.

I would tell you just test it out. I would tell you just test it out. Always be testing. Yes.

Always be testing. Yes. Always be testing. Yes. Yeah, that would be it. Now, do you

Yeah, that would be it. Now, do you Yeah, that would be it. Now, do you think that it's important for affiliates think that it's important for affiliates think that it's important for affiliates to diversify traffic where I think in

to diversify traffic where I think in to diversify traffic where I think in the last 10 to 15 years like the SEO

the last 10 to 15 years like the SEO the last 10 to 15 years like the SEO affiliate playbook has been basic. It's

affiliate playbook has been basic. It's affiliate playbook has been basic. It's create your content, build links, rank

create your content, build links, rank create your content, build links, rank it in Google, print money, buy more

it in Google, print money, buy more it in Google, print money, buy more affiliate sites, and get bigger and buy

affiliate sites, and get bigger and buy affiliate sites, and get bigger and buy even more affiliates. So, what do you

even more affiliates. So, what do you even more affiliates. So, what do you think affiliates need to do today? Is it

think affiliates need to do today? Is it think affiliates need to do today? Is it YouTube? Is it Reddit? Is it LinkedIn?

YouTube? Is it Reddit? Is it LinkedIn? YouTube? Is it Reddit? Is it LinkedIn? Is it streaming? Is it all of it? Or is

Is it streaming? Is it all of it? Or is Is it streaming? Is it all of it? Or is it depends? Oh, thank you for asking me

it depends? Oh, thank you for asking me it depends? Oh, thank you for asking me this question.

this question. this question. I think affiliation as a model existed

I think affiliation as a model existed I think affiliation as a model existed like throughout the centuries and

like throughout the centuries and like throughout the centuries and affiliation in gambling has multiple

affiliation in gambling has multiple affiliation in gambling has multiple platforms. It's not just about SEO.

platforms. It's not just about SEO. platforms. It's not just about SEO. There are obviously like opportunities

There are obviously like opportunities There are obviously like opportunities to paid for play on many other social

to paid for play on many other social to paid for play on many other social networks such as Tik Tok etc. So like

networks such as Tik Tok etc. So like networks such as Tik Tok etc. So like there are options to do everything. It's

there are options to do everything. It's there are options to do everything. It's just like where are your customers?

just like where are your customers? just like where are your customers? where is the best value that you can get

where is the best value that you can get where is the best value that you can get for your for where you put your effort

for your for where you put your effort for your for where you put your effort in. And I think a lot of people have

in. And I think a lot of people have in. And I think a lot of people have tested this out and SEO turned out to be

tested this out and SEO turned out to be tested this out and SEO turned out to be the best one. And I'm actually not

the best one. And I'm actually not the best one. And I'm actually not surprised because like I think my theory

surprised because like I think my theory surprised because like I think my theory is that Google understands where you are

is that Google understands where you are is that Google understands where you are in your search journey because they do

in your search journey because they do in your search journey because they do monitor and process those results. They

monitor and process those results. They monitor and process those results. They now have a quantum chip to do that. So

now have a quantum chip to do that. So now have a quantum chip to do that. So like they do monitor and they process like they do monitor and they process like they do monitor and they process those results and they give you the best

those results and they give you the best those results and they give you the best websites based on what they think based

websites based on what they think based websites based on what they think based on what their algorithm thinks would be

on what their algorithm thinks would be on what their algorithm thinks would be the best result for you. So at this

the best result for you. So at this the best result for you. So at this point they're giving you the affiliate

point they're giving you the affiliate point they're giving you the affiliate that's the most ready to convert. And

that's the most ready to convert. And that's the most ready to convert. And that's why you don't get the same kind

that's why you don't get the same kind that's why you don't get the same kind of results with paid the best players

of results with paid the best players of results with paid the best players the best conversions and everything

the best conversions and everything the best conversions and everything else. I think at this point somebody

else. I think at this point somebody else. I think at this point somebody needs to share their stats and say how

needs to share their stats and say how needs to share their stats and say how much Reddit has worked for them or other

much Reddit has worked for them or other much Reddit has worked for them or other platforms and then we'll know and if you

platforms and then we'll know and if you platforms and then we'll know and if you see a lot of affiliates moving to Reddit

see a lot of affiliates moving to Reddit see a lot of affiliates moving to Reddit and testing these things out then then

and testing these things out then then and testing these things out then then you'll know but unless you unless it's

you'll know but unless you unless it's you'll know but unless you unless it's all about Google and fighting for that

all about Google and fighting for that all about Google and fighting for that first position etc then Google would be

first position etc then Google would be first position etc then Google would be still the best the best source. Yeah, we

still the best the best source. Yeah, we still the best the best source. Yeah, we always know there will be affiliates

always know there will be affiliates always know there will be affiliates that once they find a channel that

that once they find a channel that that once they find a channel that they're the only ones using it. They

they're the only ones using it. They they're the only ones using it. They will not share that with anyone else. will not share that with anyone else. will not share that with anyone else. The big, no, I'm taking this. I've had

The big, no, I'm taking this. I've had The big, no, I'm taking this. I've had friends tell me like there's one friends tell me like there's one friends tell me like there's one affiliate program that they rank for a

affiliate program that they rank for a affiliate program that they rank for a brand and it makes them so much money.

brand and it makes them so much money. brand and it makes them so much money. They're like, I don't want anyone taking

They're like, I don't want anyone taking They're like, I don't want anyone taking them out of the number one spot. And I

them out of the number one spot. And I them out of the number one spot. And I actually had that happened to me once actually had that happened to me once actually had that happened to me once with two casinos I just ranked number

with two casinos I just ranked number with two casinos I just ranked number one for. I'm like wasn't trying, but I'm

one for. I'm like wasn't trying, but I'm one for. I'm like wasn't trying, but I'm like I don't want anyone coming in here.

like I don't want anyone coming in here. like I don't want anyone coming in here. Yeah, you give me this ranking because Yeah, you give me this ranking because Yeah, you give me this ranking because it's the only strong rankings I had.

it's the only strong rankings I had. it's the only strong rankings I had. Yes, there are certain combinations that

Yes, there are certain combinations that Yes, there are certain combinations that are true money winners and I don't think

are true money winners and I don't think are true money winners and I don't think anybody will be ready to share that.

anybody will be ready to share that. anybody will be ready to share that. So, pivoting to back to this book, one

So, pivoting to back to this book, one So, pivoting to back to this book, one of the common questions talked about nav

of the common questions talked about nav of the common questions talked about nav boost, how important it is. So, I want

boost, how important it is. So, I want boost, how important it is. So, I want to ask you what is it? Why is it

to ask you what is it? Why is it to ask you what is it? Why is it important? I think it's important

important? I think it's important important? I think it's important because I come more from like the

because I come more from like the because I come more from like the product design angle and I know you

product design angle and I know you product design angle and I know you probably have a lot more data and

probably have a lot more data and probably have a lot more data and experience in how user experience and

experience in how user experience and experience in how user experience and design plays an important role in SEO.

design plays an important role in SEO. design plays an important role in SEO. Okay. So I I hope I get to explain this

Okay. So I I hope I get to explain this Okay. So I I hope I get to explain this properly but nab boost is just part of

properly but nab boost is just part of properly but nab boost is just part of Google's algorithm and I think like

Google's algorithm and I think like Google's algorithm and I think like there has been like a conversations

there has been like a conversations there has been like a conversations among SEOs like whether what does it do

among SEOs like whether what does it do among SEOs like whether what does it do and how does it works etc. But like in

and how does it works etc. But like in and how does it works etc. But like in the most simplest of terms and I do hope

the most simplest of terms and I do hope the most simplest of terms and I do hope and I do underline most simplest of

and I do underline most simplest of and I do underline most simplest of terms that means that the more visits

terms that means that the more visits terms that means that the more visits you get the better rankings you're going

you get the better rankings you're going you get the better rankings you're going to get. Aka traffic is a ranking signal.

to get. Aka traffic is a ranking signal. to get. Aka traffic is a ranking signal. So like that would be like that would be

So like that would be like that would be So like that would be like that would be it. I hope I I hope I explained this

it. I hope I I hope I explained this it. I hope I I hope I explained this properly. If there are any SEOs who

properly. If there are any SEOs who properly. If there are any SEOs who disagree, please please please do

disagree, please please please do disagree, please please please do correct me. What was the other part of

correct me. What was the other part of correct me. What was the other part of the question? Why is it so? Yeah, cuz

the question? Why is it so? Yeah, cuz the question? Why is it so? Yeah, cuz it's like when I researched Nav Boost, a

it's like when I researched Nav Boost, a it's like when I researched Nav Boost, a lot of the talk is centered around the

lot of the talk is centered around the lot of the talk is centered around the idea of user experience where like

idea of user experience where like idea of user experience where like traffic and maintaining that traffic on

traffic and maintaining that traffic on traffic and maintaining that traffic on your site's important, but if you have a

your site's important, but if you have a your site's important, but if you have a horrible user experience, it's it's part

horrible user experience, it's it's part horrible user experience, it's it's part of the other feedback loop that users

of the other feedback loop that users of the other feedback loop that users come from Google to your site and if

come from Google to your site and if come from Google to your site and if they don't they're not happy with what

they don't they're not happy with what they don't they're not happy with what they see, then they're gone. So, it's

they see, then they're gone. So, it's they see, then they're gone. So, it's like how does user experience and design

like how does user experience and design like how does user experience and design have an important influence on traffic

have an important influence on traffic have an important influence on traffic and time on site and everything else? I

and time on site and everything else? I and time on site and everything else? I think we might be getting into the

think we might be getting into the think we might be getting into the territory of pogo sticking at this point

territory of pogo sticking at this point territory of pogo sticking at this point because if a user comes to your website

because if a user comes to your website because if a user comes to your website and just rolls back and then obviously

and just rolls back and then obviously and just rolls back and then obviously it's a signal for Google that they

it's a signal for Google that they it's a signal for Google that they didn't find what they were looking for

didn't find what they were looking for didn't find what they were looking for and whether that was because of the UX

and whether that was because of the UX and whether that was because of the UX or whether that was because of they

or whether that was because of they or whether that was because of they really wanted to find something and they

really wanted to find something and they really wanted to find something and they couldn't find it then that is that is

couldn't find it then that is that is couldn't find it then that is that is also like a negative signal. But if you

also like a negative signal. But if you also like a negative signal. But if you want to talk about the UX and uh and

want to talk about the UX and uh and want to talk about the UX and uh and everything that has influence about SEO,

everything that has influence about SEO, everything that has influence about SEO, there are so many case studies that show

there are so many case studies that show there are so many case studies that show how important it is and how important it

how important it is and how important it how important it is and how important it is like for for attention, for

is like for for attention, for is like for for attention, for navigation, for everything else, for for

navigation, for everything else, for for navigation, for everything else, for for general comfort that you give people

general comfort that you give people general comfort that you give people when they browse your website, for

when they browse your website, for when they browse your website, for everything else that you want them to

everything else that you want them to everything else that you want them to see. So I think it's a very important

see. So I think it's a very important see. So I think it's a very important part of SEO and there are so many

part of SEO and there are so many part of SEO and there are so many tactics as to what can you put where

tactics as to what can you put where tactics as to what can you put where what gives you best and um should you

what gives you best and um should you what gives you best and um should you have a horizontal top list should you

have a horizontal top list should you have a horizontal top list should you have it scrollable what is it etc.

have it scrollable what is it etc. have it scrollable what is it etc. There's a lot of tests around that area

There's a lot of tests around that area There's a lot of tests around that area and it's not all related like to just

and it's not all related like to just and it's not all related like to just like Google signal but yeah as I said

like Google signal but yeah as I said like Google signal but yeah as I said like it's a very

like it's a very like it's a very uh I think if you go back to Bill

uh I think if you go back to Bill uh I think if you go back to Bill Slavski's blog and then you read about

Slavski's blog and then you read about Slavski's blog and then you read about Nost you're probably going to get like

Nost you're probably going to get like Nost you're probably going to get like the best the best overview as to what it

the best the best overview as to what it the best the best overview as to what it was. Yeah.

was. Yeah. was. Yeah. And what do you think about like when I

And what do you think about like when I And what do you think about like when I look at some of the biggest I gaming

look at some of the biggest I gaming look at some of the biggest I gaming affiliate companies and I look at who do

affiliate companies and I look at who do affiliate companies and I look at who do they employ? It's not just SEO people,

they employ? It's not just SEO people, they employ? It's not just SEO people, but I see a lot of product people and

but I see a lot of product people and but I see a lot of product people and that job seems to becoming more and more

that job seems to becoming more and more that job seems to becoming more and more important. How valuable or important do

important. How valuable or important do important. How valuable or important do you think the product role is in

you think the product role is in you think the product role is in relation to SEO?

relation to SEO? relation to SEO? I actually think it's very much valuable

I actually think it's very much valuable I actually think it's very much valuable and you realize that once you have

and you realize that once you have and you realize that once you have people who are very much contributing to

people who are very much contributing to people who are very much contributing to what you do because as an SEO I I try to

what you do because as an SEO I I try to what you do because as an SEO I I try to get stay on top of everything but it's

get stay on top of everything but it's get stay on top of everything but it's impossible to stay on top of like almost

impossible to stay on top of like almost impossible to stay on top of like almost everything. For example, coding

everything. For example, coding everything. For example, coding languages etc. Like I'm good at

languages etc. Like I'm good at languages etc. Like I'm good at technical but give me an app to code

technical but give me an app to code technical but give me an app to code like it will be like I'll try and Yeah.

like it will be like I'll try and Yeah. like it will be like I'll try and Yeah. Same here. Exactly. So, and nobody

Same here. Exactly. So, and nobody Same here. Exactly. So, and nobody expects me to because I am supposed to

expects me to because I am supposed to expects me to because I am supposed to be the troubleshooter. I'm supposed to

be the troubleshooter. I'm supposed to be the troubleshooter. I'm supposed to understand what I see on the website.

understand what I see on the website. understand what I see on the website. And I think when you think about the

And I think when you think about the And I think when you think about the product and the value that they bring,

product and the value that they bring, product and the value that they bring, it's not just building a sustainable

it's not just building a sustainable it's not just building a sustainable website, it's also understanding like

website, it's also understanding like website, it's also understanding like how it's understanding code complexity

how it's understanding code complexity how it's understanding code complexity like what can be built upon like the

like what can be built upon like the like what can be built upon like the function the functions that it has and

function the functions that it has and function the functions that it has and also like understanding what are the

also like understanding what are the also like understanding what are the features that the users is going user is

features that the users is going user is features that the users is going user is going to want and also figuring out what

going to want and also figuring out what going to want and also figuring out what you can have that is above what the

you can have that is above what the you can have that is above what the competition is having as So you don't

competition is having as So you don't competition is having as So you don't want to just be stuck copying your

want to just be stuck copying your want to just be stuck copying your competition in terms of user experience,

competition in terms of user experience, competition in terms of user experience, development, features, widgets,

development, features, widgets, development, features, widgets, everything else that you have. You want

everything else that you have. You want everything else that you have. You want to be the front runner on that end. And

to be the front runner on that end. And to be the front runner on that end. And for that like a valuable user experience

for that like a valuable user experience for that like a valuable user experience person who understands the business, who

person who understands the business, who person who understands the business, who understands like the main goal which is

understands like the main goal which is understands like the main goal which is to get the customer and get the customer

to get the customer and get the customer to get the customer and get the customer to convert. So get in and get out. And

to convert. So get in and get out. And to convert. So get in and get out. And that is basically our main our main

that is basically our main our main that is basically our main our main business model. And I think the actual

business model. And I think the actual business model. And I think the actual product person that understands this and

product person that understands this and product person that understands this and is able to research, get into the

is able to research, get into the is able to research, get into the mindset, figure out everything, test and

mindset, figure out everything, test and mindset, figure out everything, test and come up with ideas is very invaluable to

come up with ideas is very invaluable to come up with ideas is very invaluable to the business. Yeah. Because I think a

the business. Yeah. Because I think a the business. Yeah. Because I think a good product person would actually say,

good product person would actually say, good product person would actually say, "Wait a minute, we also need first party

"Wait a minute, we also need first party "Wait a minute, we also need first party data." So, it's if you've done all that

data." So, it's if you've done all that data." So, it's if you've done all that valuable SEO work, I think the old

valuable SEO work, I think the old valuable SEO work, I think the old playbook is you get Google traffic, they

playbook is you get Google traffic, they playbook is you get Google traffic, they click on a link, you make your money,

click on a link, you make your money, click on a link, you make your money, you never talk to that player again, and

you never talk to that player again, and you never talk to that player again, and you probably do, but you don't even know

you probably do, but you don't even know you probably do, but you don't even know who they are. And maybe if you have an

who they are. And maybe if you have an who they are. And maybe if you have an actual product, it's like they're stuck

actual product, it's like they're stuck actual product, it's like they're stuck to you.

to you. to you. Yeah, I don't know how that ends, but

Yeah, I don't know how that ends, but Yeah, I don't know how that ends, but there's a lot of there's a lot of things

there's a lot of there's a lot of things there's a lot of there's a lot of things that we're trying still to figure out.

that we're trying still to figure out. that we're trying still to figure out. And if somebody else has a tool that has

And if somebody else has a tool that has And if somebody else has a tool that has it figured out, I would love to, but

it figured out, I would love to, but it figured out, I would love to, but like from the keyword to the FTD, I

like from the keyword to the FTD, I like from the keyword to the FTD, I think there's a lot there's a lot of

think there's a lot there's a lot of think there's a lot there's a lot of things there that I don't know like from

things there that I don't know like from things there that I don't know like from the click like to to the FTD. I think

the click like to to the FTD. I think the click like to to the FTD. I think like that can be tricked, but like from

like that can be tricked, but like from like that can be tricked, but like from the keyword that's actually because

the keyword that's actually because the keyword that's actually because Google doesn't let you give that data.

Google doesn't let you give that data. Google doesn't let you give that data. So all we have at this point is a very

So all we have at this point is a very So all we have at this point is a very good causality that we can work with and

good causality that we can work with and good causality that we can work with and like thinking because if you drop one

like thinking because if you drop one like thinking because if you drop one position and then your FTGS drop or

position and then your FTGS drop or position and then your FTGS drop or whatever happens then you know that this

whatever happens then you know that this whatever happens then you know that this was a valuable keyword and obviously as

was a valuable keyword and obviously as was a valuable keyword and obviously as you go further in your career you'll

you go further in your career you'll you go further in your career you'll notice much you'll notice those shifts

notice much you'll notice those shifts notice much you'll notice those shifts and then you know that it's best if

and then you know that it's best if and then you know that it's best if you're ranked number one for everything

you're ranked number one for everything you're ranked number one for everything and then you don't have any problems.

and then you don't have any problems. and then you don't have any problems. But that's impossible. Yeah. Close. In

But that's impossible. Yeah. Close. In But that's impossible. Yeah. Close. In the book, you also talked about one of

the book, you also talked about one of the book, you also talked about one of the questions was what are some of the

the questions was what are some of the the questions was what are some of the ways in which you can use AI for

ways in which you can use AI for ways in which you can use AI for affiliate sites? And I think you wrote

affiliate sites? And I think you wrote affiliate sites? And I think you wrote about that there was a chatbot made that

about that there was a chatbot made that about that there was a chatbot made that was basically super useful. So I got a

was basically super useful. So I got a was basically super useful. So I got a two parts of the question. Do you think

two parts of the question. Do you think two parts of the question. Do you think users are going to start changing how

users are going to start changing how users are going to start changing how they interact with websites and data

they interact with websites and data they interact with websites and data where they're going to become more where they're going to become more where they're going to become more comfortable with the chatbot rather than

comfortable with the chatbot rather than comfortable with the chatbot rather than the old school tables and filters?

the old school tables and filters? the old school tables and filters? Okay. So I think that is something that

Okay. So I think that is something that Okay. So I think that is something that Gen 2 media has launched and that is

Gen 2 media has launched and that is Gen 2 media has launched and that is something that I think I don't I have

something that I think I don't I have something that I think I don't I have not seen anybody else do it. We have

not seen anybody else do it. We have not seen anybody else do it. We have basically integrated AI within one of

basically integrated AI within one of basically integrated AI within one of the websites. Yes, I was actually very

the websites. Yes, I was actually very the websites. Yes, I was actually very proud of the team that did it and it was

proud of the team that did it and it was proud of the team that did it and it was like it was an amazing thing that they

like it was an amazing thing that they like it was an amazing thing that they did and honestly let's see let's see how

did and honestly let's see let's see how did and honestly let's see let's see how it works. AI is still developing

it works. AI is still developing it works. AI is still developing learning etc. And like the models are

learning etc. And like the models are learning etc. And like the models are there. It's also not cheap to use them

there. It's also not cheap to use them there. It's also not cheap to use them even with the API wrapper or whatever.

even with the API wrapper or whatever. even with the API wrapper or whatever. I'm not giving any ideas but AI is not

I'm not giving any ideas but AI is not I'm not giving any ideas but AI is not cheap. So it really depends. But I do

cheap. So it really depends. But I do cheap. So it really depends. But I do think and this is coming from my first

think and this is coming from my first think and this is coming from my first SEO boss who is now I think from when I

SEO boss who is now I think from when I SEO boss who is now I think from when I read his post he's probably one of the

read his post he's probably one of the read his post he's probably one of the leading minds in terms of AI

leading minds in terms of AI leading minds in terms of AI integration, Dan Petrovvic. and he he

integration, Dan Petrovvic. and he he integration, Dan Petrovvic. and he he had a post about 10 years ago in 2014 or

had a post about 10 years ago in 2014 or had a post about 10 years ago in 2014 or 2013 where he had like this whole like

2013 where he had like this whole like 2013 where he had like this whole like how he would like to see the future and

how he would like to see the future and how he would like to see the future and he actually was like you come and you

he actually was like you come and you he actually was like you come and you ask Google to give you a suggestion of

ask Google to give you a suggestion of ask Google to give you a suggestion of whatever you want to of what you want to

whatever you want to of what you want to whatever you want to of what you want to do and I did that a couple of days ago

do and I did that a couple of days ago do and I did that a couple of days ago when I told Chhat JPT can you plan my

when I told Chhat JPT can you plan my when I told Chhat JPT can you plan my trip to Indonesia make sure I cover

trip to Indonesia make sure I cover trip to Indonesia make sure I cover everything that's that's worth seeing.

everything that's that's worth seeing. everything that's that's worth seeing. Give me the links for all the resorts

Give me the links for all the resorts Give me the links for all the resorts that are good seeing. Give me three

that are good seeing. Give me three that are good seeing. Give me three options for the hotels that it's like to

options for the hotels that it's like to options for the hotels that it's like to stay. Find me the airlines that go there

stay. Find me the airlines that go there stay. Find me the airlines that go there that have the best route. And it just

that have the best route. And it just that have the best route. And it just gave me all that. And obviously like I

gave me all that. And obviously like I gave me all that. And obviously like I had to double check all of it. So I had

had to double check all of it. So I had had to double check all of it. So I had a lot of googling my belt. But this is

a lot of googling my belt. But this is a lot of googling my belt. But this is still I would say like semi early

still I would say like semi early still I would say like semi early stages. And I think we're getting there

stages. And I think we're getting there stages. And I think we're getting there where people are going to be very much

where people are going to be very much where people are going to be very much comfortable talking to and just like

comfortable talking to and just like comfortable talking to and just like asking for what they want. Yeah. Maybe

asking for what they want. Yeah. Maybe asking for what they want. Yeah. Maybe the skill in the future is knowing what

the skill in the future is knowing what the skill in the future is knowing what questions to ask and asking the right

questions to ask and asking the right questions to ask and asking the right questions and being smart with it questions and being smart with it questions and being smart with it because we've seen like a whole 15 20

because we've seen like a whole 15 20 because we've seen like a whole 15 20 years of Google, you know, how people

years of Google, you know, how people years of Google, you know, how people can use Google. They're using it in the

can use Google. They're using it in the can use Google. They're using it in the wrong way. That becomes up to us as

wrong way. That becomes up to us as wrong way. That becomes up to us as marketers to go, okay, if you're going marketers to go, okay, if you're going marketers to go, okay, if you're going to search for things, but you're looking

to search for things, but you're looking to search for things, but you're looking for this, your intent is over here.

for this, your intent is over here. for this, your intent is over here. We're going to create the content that

We're going to create the content that We're going to create the content that you're searching for. technically, but you're searching for. technically, but you're searching for. technically, but we know your intent is in the corner and

we know your intent is in the corner and we know your intent is in the corner and we're going to basically just route you we're going to basically just route you we're going to basically just route you to that corner. Yes, basically that. And

to that corner. Yes, basically that. And to that corner. Yes, basically that. And honestly, let's see how it all develops.

honestly, let's see how it all develops. honestly, let's see how it all develops. I'm very excited about the future. All

I'm very excited about the future. All I'm very excited about the future. All right. And going back to that chatbot

right. And going back to that chatbot right. And going back to that chatbot for Gen 2, was that an easy thing to do

for Gen 2, was that an easy thing to do for Gen 2, was that an easy thing to do or you're not sure or did you get a

or you're not sure or did you get a or you're not sure or did you get a chance to work with the team? Because chance to work with the team? Because chance to work with the team? Because I'm thinking out loud like this would be

I'm thinking out loud like this would be I'm thinking out loud like this would be a great thing to to deploy on any site.

a great thing to to deploy on any site. a great thing to to deploy on any site. It's more advanced than a chatbot and

It's more advanced than a chatbot and It's more advanced than a chatbot and I'm afraid they can't.

I'm afraid they can't. I'm afraid they can't. All right, that that that's answering

All right, that that that's answering All right, that that that's answering enough. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, I

enough. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, I enough. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, I want to pivot to we're talking a lot

want to pivot to we're talking a lot want to pivot to we're talking a lot about SEO on the affiliate side for i

about SEO on the affiliate side for i about SEO on the affiliate side for i gaming, but let's pivot to the operator

gaming, but let's pivot to the operator gaming, but let's pivot to the operator side. Do you think there's a big side. Do you think there's a big side. Do you think there's a big opportunity where operators, my opinion

opportunity where operators, my opinion opportunity where operators, my opinion is they've been lazy with SEO because

is they've been lazy with SEO because is they've been lazy with SEO because either they don't do SEO, they don't either they don't do SEO, they don't either they don't do SEO, they don't know how it works, or they hire the

know how it works, or they hire the know how it works, or they hire the wrong SEO, but more importantly, they wrong SEO, but more importantly, they wrong SEO, but more importantly, they just say, "Okay, we're turning on the just say, "Okay, we're turning on the just say, "Okay, we're turning on the affiliate program. Our SEO traffic's

affiliate program. Our SEO traffic's affiliate program. Our SEO traffic's coming from affiliates. We're good."

coming from affiliates. We're good." coming from affiliates. We're good." What are the opportunities there?

What are the opportunities there? What are the opportunities there? If the mindset is all of our SEO traffic

If the mindset is all of our SEO traffic If the mindset is all of our SEO traffic is coming from affiliates, then

is coming from affiliates, then is coming from affiliates, then obviously they're losing out on a lot of

obviously they're losing out on a lot of obviously they're losing out on a lot of things because first of all, I assume

things because first of all, I assume things because first of all, I assume that they would always be the best

that they would always be the best that they would always be the best results for the brand name. But I have

results for the brand name. But I have results for the brand name. But I have seen websites being launched where

seen websites being launched where seen websites being launched where affiliates outrank the brand name of the

affiliates outrank the brand name of the affiliates outrank the brand name of the casino, whether that's an internal

casino, whether that's an internal casino, whether that's an internal error, etc. Speaking with other SEOs

error, etc. Speaking with other SEOs error, etc. Speaking with other SEOs that work on the operator side, I

that work on the operator side, I that work on the operator side, I realized how clumsy the the

realized how clumsy the the realized how clumsy the the the setup and the structure behind it is

the setup and the structure behind it is the setup and the structure behind it is really and how much they are having

really and how much they are having really and how much they are having they're not having success at

they're not having success at they're not having success at implementing the ideas that they want

implementing the ideas that they want implementing the ideas that they want and and and everything else. And some of

and and and everything else. And some of and and and everything else. And some of the casinos are probably operating with

the casinos are probably operating with the casinos are probably operating with like tons and tons of as I said like

like tons and tons of as I said like like tons and tons of as I said like complex code that's executing multiple

complex code that's executing multiple complex code that's executing multiple functions and that is probably due to

functions and that is probably due to functions and that is probably due to expire at some point and then they're

expire at some point and then they're expire at some point and then they're just lost from the SERs because like

just lost from the SERs because like just lost from the SERs because like they become too complicated for Google

they become too complicated for Google they become too complicated for Google to crawl again coming back to the story

to crawl again coming back to the story to crawl again coming back to the story about the resources and everything else.

about the resources and everything else. about the resources and everything else. So I think like for me for the

So I think like for me for the So I think like for me for the operators when you have a big website

operators when you have a big website operators when you have a big website big in terms of pages etc and this is

big in terms of pages etc and this is big in terms of pages etc and this is what operators have those are sometimes

what operators have those are sometimes what operators have those are sometimes really big websites like the only thing

really big websites like the only thing really big websites like the only thing that can bring you down is basically

that can bring you down is basically that can bring you down is basically technical. So you really need to

technical. So you really need to technical. So you really need to optimize everything that you can from

optimize everything that you can from optimize everything that you can from the technical perspective in order for

the technical perspective in order for the technical perspective in order for Google to be able to crawl your website

Google to be able to crawl your website Google to be able to crawl your website and process your resources the easiest

and process your resources the easiest and process your resources the easiest way possible. And if you're not doing

way possible. And if you're not doing way possible. And if you're not doing that, you're losing out on a lot of very

that, you're losing out on a lot of very that, you're losing out on a lot of very targeted traffic. Again, circling back

targeted traffic. Again, circling back targeted traffic. Again, circling back to what I've just described, Google

to what I've just described, Google to what I've just described, Google understands the user and where they're

understands the user and where they're understands the user and where they're searching for. And if their casino is

searching for. And if their casino is searching for. And if their casino is the best result, but Google can't crawl

the best result, but Google can't crawl the best result, but Google can't crawl it, understand it, and process it

it, understand it, and process it it, understand it, and process it properly in its data centers, then

properly in its data centers, then properly in its data centers, then they're not going to serve them, and

they're not going to serve them, and they're not going to serve them, and they're losing out on a potentially

they're losing out on a potentially they're losing out on a potentially really big customer to an affiliate or

really big customer to an affiliate or really big customer to an affiliate or to another casino. So at this point I

to another casino. So at this point I to another casino. So at this point I would say to operators look into your

would say to operators look into your would say to operators look into your technical teams and see what you can do

technical teams and see what you can do technical teams and see what you can do in order to improve your code your

in order to improve your code your in order to improve your code your technical that is that that's the

technical that is that that's the technical that is that that's the biggest pain point with big websites.

biggest pain point with big websites. biggest pain point with big websites. Yeah. Do you think Google has already

Yeah. Do you think Google has already Yeah. Do you think Google has already made a change where they are giving more

made a change where they are giving more made a change where they are giving more traffic to products and e-commerce

traffic to products and e-commerce traffic to products and e-commerce because it's been said for a while you because it's been said for a while you because it's been said for a while you got an affiliate website just put like a

got an affiliate website just put like a got an affiliate website just put like a shopping cart there and you're now shopping cart there and you're now shopping cart there and you're now e-commerce and you'd rank. But I it

e-commerce and you'd rank. But I it e-commerce and you'd rank. But I it looks like the SERs have changed the

looks like the SERs have changed the looks like the SERs have changed the favoritism away from content sites to

favoritism away from content sites to favoritism away from content sites to more products and online casino and

more products and online casino and more products and online casino and sports book those are products. So are

sports book those are products. So are sports book those are products. So are you seeing this or like what do you see

you seeing this or like what do you see you seeing this or like what do you see in the content landscape of how users

in the content landscape of how users in the content landscape of how users can come from Google and where are they

can come from Google and where are they can come from Google and where are they going? They hitting an operator or an

going? They hitting an operator or an going? They hitting an operator or an affiliate or what is it? Okay, so the ad

affiliate or what is it? Okay, so the ad affiliate or what is it? Okay, so the ad shopping cart was I think like talk of

shopping cart was I think like talk of shopping cart was I think like talk of the ch my conference. Yeah, I honestly

the ch my conference. Yeah, I honestly the ch my conference. Yeah, I honestly haven't seen those websites that have

haven't seen those websites that have haven't seen those websites that have been hit or like not doing great, etc.

been hit or like not doing great, etc. been hit or like not doing great, etc. But I do believe that affiliate as a

But I do believe that affiliate as a But I do believe that affiliate as a model is not done yet. We are basically

model is not done yet. We are basically model is not done yet. We are basically review websites and there are plenty of

review websites and there are plenty of review websites and there are plenty of other review websites that are still

other review websites that are still other review websites that are still functioning. Maybe we should add some

functioning. Maybe we should add some functioning. Maybe we should add some services to it, but like it's perfectly

services to it, but like it's perfectly services to it, but like it's perfectly okay to also just be a review website as

okay to also just be a review website as okay to also just be a review website as well. Yeah, I I do think that see this

well. Yeah, I I do think that see this well. Yeah, I I do think that see this is where SEO is. This is where SEO is

is where SEO is. This is where SEO is is where SEO is. This is where SEO is tricky because this might work for

tricky because this might work for tricky because this might work for somebody and it's a short-term solution

somebody and it's a short-term solution somebody and it's a short-term solution and it works for them and why shouldn't

and it works for them and why shouldn't and it works for them and why shouldn't they do it, right? Just because I said

they do it, right? Just because I said they do it, right? Just because I said so. Maybe I would have a long-term

so. Maybe I would have a long-term so. Maybe I would have a long-term solution that would be like maybe

solution that would be like maybe solution that would be like maybe beneficial for the future or something

beneficial for the future or something beneficial for the future or something like that. But it really depends. So

like that. But it really depends. So like that. But it really depends. So this is why SEOs check in. There's a lot

this is why SEOs check in. There's a lot this is why SEOs check in. There's a lot of things that other SEOs would do

of things that other SEOs would do of things that other SEOs would do differently and that maybe I would do

differently and that maybe I would do differently and that maybe I would do differently. But I have spoken with a

differently. But I have spoken with a differently. But I have spoken with a lot of people who who have been hit by

lot of people who who have been hit by lot of people who who have been hit by Google updates and who wanted to do all

Google updates and who wanted to do all Google updates and who wanted to do all the magic recovery stuff. Publish it on

the magic recovery stuff. Publish it on the magic recovery stuff. Publish it on a different domain, do a 302 redirect or

a different domain, do a 302 redirect or a different domain, do a 302 redirect or or add a shopping cart to your website

or add a shopping cart to your website or add a shopping cart to your website before you get hit or or or redirect it

before you get hit or or or redirect it before you get hit or or or redirect it to something else or like just trying

to something else or like just trying to something else or like just trying out some other things. For me, I would

out some other things. For me, I would out some other things. For me, I would always try to figure out like what

always try to figure out like what always try to figure out like what happened first. And my approach is not

happened first. And my approach is not happened first. And my approach is not the fastest one, I have to admit,

the fastest one, I have to admit, the fastest one, I have to admit, because I tend to really look at what's

because I tend to really look at what's because I tend to really look at what's been happening and what the data is. So,

been happening and what the data is. So, been happening and what the data is. So, it might take a little bit of time to

it might take a little bit of time to it might take a little bit of time to understand where the problem lies. But

understand where the problem lies. But understand where the problem lies. But if I'm able to diagnose it properly and

if I'm able to diagnose it properly and if I'm able to diagnose it properly and so far I so far I have been, you never

so far I so far I have been, you never so far I so far I have been, you never know with Google, I think I'm able to

know with Google, I think I'm able to know with Google, I think I'm able to recover a website without actually

recover a website without actually recover a website without actually needing a lot of these very risky

needing a lot of these very risky needing a lot of these very risky tactics. But again, if it works for

tactics. But again, if it works for tactics. But again, if it works for somebody and they have this like

somebody and they have this like somebody and they have this like short-term website, they don't care what

short-term website, they don't care what short-term website, they don't care what the domain is, they don't care about the

the domain is, they don't care about the the domain is, they don't care about the eat, etc., they just care about the

eat, etc., they just care about the eat, etc., they just care about the rankings, then by all means just do it.

rankings, then by all means just do it. rankings, then by all means just do it. I am with the other SEOs in the whatever

I am with the other SEOs in the whatever I am with the other SEOs in the whatever works. Yeah. Okay. I think what you said

works. Yeah. Okay. I think what you said works. Yeah. Okay. I think what you said was interesting in the sense that you

was interesting in the sense that you was interesting in the sense that you said affiliates could be doing more than

said affiliates could be doing more than said affiliates could be doing more than just content, like they could be doing just content, like they could be doing just content, like they could be doing services. So, one thing I think that

services. So, one thing I think that services. So, one thing I think that actually might change in the near future

actually might change in the near future actually might change in the near future is like we have a product that's called

is like we have a product that's called is like we have a product that's called dynamic variables. So, it gives you the

dynamic variables. So, it gives you the dynamic variables. So, it gives you the ability to have click IDs, which is

ability to have click IDs, which is ability to have click IDs, which is great because then you can actually show great because then you can actually show great because then you can actually show which pages you know the player came

which pages you know the player came which pages you know the player came from. But if you have this with first

from. But if you have this with first from. But if you have this with first party data means you've got the player's

party data means you've got the player's party data means you've got the player's email. So, if you actually send them a

email. So, if you actually send them a email. So, if you actually send them a hard-coded click ID, you actually have

hard-coded click ID, you actually have hard-coded click ID, you actually have the deposit and revenue activity. You

the deposit and revenue activity. You the deposit and revenue activity. You basically own the player. So, now that

basically own the player. So, now that basically own the player. So, now that you own the player, you can see when you own the player, you can see when you own the player, you can see when they stop playing at the casino, you can

they stop playing at the casino, you can they stop playing at the casino, you can actually have your own Pam. Like PAMs

actually have your own Pam. Like PAMs actually have your own Pam. Like PAMs are normally for operators, but if

are normally for operators, but if are normally for operators, but if you're an affiliate, this is a service.

you're an affiliate, this is a service. you're an affiliate, this is a service. You're now not just referring players to

You're now not just referring players to You're now not just referring players to the casino. You're actually helping them

the casino. You're actually helping them the casino. You're actually helping them with things like the obvious one is

with things like the obvious one is with things like the obvious one is there's complaints. There's like trying

there's complaints. There's like trying there's complaints. There's like trying to get more bonuses or hey, I'm a good

to get more bonuses or hey, I'm a good to get more bonuses or hey, I'm a good player. Can I actually get upgraded to

player. Can I actually get upgraded to player. Can I actually get upgraded to another casino? And it's if you have another casino? And it's if you have another casino? And it's if you have this data ready to go, it's the service

this data ready to go, it's the service this data ready to go, it's the service part. Maybe this will be one of the

part. Maybe this will be one of the part. Maybe this will be one of the changes in on the eye gaming affiliate

changes in on the eye gaming affiliate changes in on the eye gaming affiliate side.

side. side. Let's see. I think the affiliates that

Let's see. I think the affiliates that Let's see. I think the affiliates that are thinking more long term and they are

are thinking more long term and they are are thinking more long term and they are thinking with the player in mind and

thinking with the player in mind and thinking with the player in mind and like how much value can I actually bring

like how much value can I actually bring like how much value can I actually bring to the player are probably going to

to the player are probably going to to the player are probably going to stand at winners of of this full ordeal

stand at winners of of this full ordeal stand at winners of of this full ordeal game whatever is happening right now

game whatever is happening right now game whatever is happening right now with the surfs etc but I might be wrong

with the surfs etc but I might be wrong with the surfs etc but I might be wrong it's a crazy it's crazy time maybe I'm

it's a crazy it's crazy time maybe I'm it's a crazy it's crazy time maybe I'm too optimistic but I I do believe that

too optimistic but I I do believe that too optimistic but I I do believe that that brand building. I do believe that

that brand building. I do believe that that brand building. I do believe that you know reputation building and

you know reputation building and you know reputation building and everything else that you can do with the

everything else that you can do with the everything else that you can do with the player is actually helpful to you as

player is actually helpful to you as player is actually helpful to you as well as an affiliate your longevity.

well as an affiliate your longevity. well as an affiliate your longevity. Yeah. So what would you do if you're

Yeah. So what would you do if you're Yeah. So what would you do if you're building a brand new website and let's

building a brand new website and let's building a brand new website and let's say you're building one not like 40 or

say you're building one not like 40 or say you're building one not like 40 or hundreds and you know what's part of the

hundreds and you know what's part of the hundreds and you know what's part of the brand strategy that is that would be

brand strategy that is that would be brand strategy that is that would be your signature? Okay, it's a it's a

your signature? Okay, it's a it's a your signature? Okay, it's a it's a trick question because it really depends

trick question because it really depends trick question because it really depends on the market.

on the market. on the market. certain markets if you want fast results

certain markets if you want fast results certain markets if you want fast results you don't go with a brand new website

you don't go with a brand new website you don't go with a brand new website but you've asked me a hypothetical

but you've asked me a hypothetical but you've asked me a hypothetical question let me just add like it's a

question let me just add like it's a question let me just add like it's a hypothetical question so let's say that

hypothetical question so let's say that hypothetical question so let's say that like the situation is that once I build

like the situation is that once I build like the situation is that once I build this website properly it's going to rank

this website properly it's going to rank this website properly it's going to rank and do it wonderfully etc etc etc so I

and do it wonderfully etc etc etc so I and do it wonderfully etc etc etc so I would pick a domain that has a keyword

would pick a domain that has a keyword would pick a domain that has a keyword in it but also has something else that

in it but also has something else that in it but also has something else that could be also construed as part of the

could be also construed as part of the could be also construed as part of the brand that could be a little bit

brand that could be a little bit brand that could be a little bit different. Now, with the newest Google

different. Now, with the newest Google different. Now, with the newest Google rules, I would either switch to both to

rules, I would either switch to both to rules, I would either switch to both to either betting or casino. Although, I

either betting or casino. Although, I either betting or casino. Although, I have seen betting websites doing really

have seen betting websites doing really have seen betting websites doing really well in the casino space and vice versa.

well in the casino space and vice versa. well in the casino space and vice versa. This is just me. So, I'm not here giving

This is just me. So, I'm not here giving This is just me. So, I'm not here giving other people telling them what to do.

other people telling them what to do. other people telling them what to do. Like, I've seen everything. It just this

Like, I've seen everything. It just this Like, I've seen everything. It just this is just me. I would pick one niche. I

is just me. I would pick one niche. I is just me. I would pick one niche. I would use the teachings of semantic SEO

would use the teachings of semantic SEO would use the teachings of semantic SEO to figure out like what kind of content

to figure out like what kind of content to figure out like what kind of content I need here, what my interlinking needs

I need here, what my interlinking needs I need here, what my interlinking needs to be, how everything should be there,

to be, how everything should be there, to be, how everything should be there, and I would try to get the best deals

and I would try to get the best deals and I would try to get the best deals that I can for for my for my users. And

that I can for for my for my users. And that I can for for my for my users. And obviously since it's me, I would

obviously since it's me, I would obviously since it's me, I would probably go to a medium

probably go to a medium probably go to a medium difficulty market which means that

difficulty market which means that difficulty market which means that players are have a higher value and

players are have a higher value and players are have a higher value and there's not a lot of there's not a lot

there's not a lot of there's not a lot there's not a lot of there's not a lot of affiliates there. So like medium

of affiliates there. So like medium of affiliates there. So like medium difficulty like not in a very saturated

difficulty like not in a very saturated difficulty like not in a very saturated market etc like some somewhere medium

market etc like some somewhere medium market etc like some somewhere medium difficulty where your efforts could

difficulty where your efforts could difficulty where your efforts could actually be there and and that would be

actually be there and and that would be actually be there and and that would be generally it. I would just opt for a

generally it. I would just opt for a generally it. I would just opt for a simple clean WordPress platform with

simple clean WordPress platform with simple clean WordPress platform with everything that works, test everything

everything that works, test everything everything that works, test everything properly and and that would be me.

properly and and that would be me. properly and and that would be me. Obviously caveat, there are shortcuts

Obviously caveat, there are shortcuts Obviously caveat, there are shortcuts for everything. There are ways that you

for everything. There are ways that you for everything. There are ways that you can make this better, etc. Obviously,

can make this better, etc. Obviously, can make this better, etc. Obviously, there's a lot of EAT that you can do so

there's a lot of EAT that you can do so there's a lot of EAT that you can do so far. There are a lot of features that far. There are a lot of features that far. There are a lot of features that you can develop on your website, etc.

you can develop on your website, etc. you can develop on your website, etc. But for me when I launch something I

But for me when I launch something I But for me when I launch something I always go from an MVP like minimum

always go from an MVP like minimum always go from an MVP like minimum viable product and once you launch it

viable product and once you launch it viable product and once you launch it then you can develop it and then you can

then you can develop it and then you can then you can develop it and then you can move it a little bit further. So that is

move it a little bit further. So that is move it a little bit further. So that is my approach. I'm sure that other SEOs

my approach. I'm sure that other SEOs my approach. I'm sure that other SEOs have other approaches and other ways to

have other approaches and other ways to have other approaches and other ways to do it and obviously it my approach will

do it and obviously it my approach will do it and obviously it my approach will not work on every market. It it depends

not work on every market. It it depends not work on every market. It it depends on the competition. It depends on

on the competition. It depends on on the competition. It depends on everything. Now, we're talking about a

everything. Now, we're talking about a everything. Now, we're talking about a hypothetical situation where there's a

hypothetical situation where there's a hypothetical situation where there's a fresh domain. Obviously, somewhere

fresh domain. Obviously, somewhere fresh domain. Obviously, somewhere you're going to want an expired one. You

you're going to want an expired one. You you're going to want an expired one. You you would want something else. There are

you would want something else. There are you would want something else. There are some shortcuts that you want to take or

some shortcuts that you want to take or some shortcuts that you want to take or you don't want to take. I think a good

you don't want to take. I think a good you don't want to take. I think a good SEO knows everything and is able to find

SEO knows everything and is able to find SEO knows everything and is able to find the best thing that kind of brings

the best thing that kind of brings the best thing that kind of brings company money. And that is that's my

company money. And that is that's my company money. And that is that's my take on it. But hypothetically, I hope I

take on it. But hypothetically, I hope I take on it. But hypothetically, I hope I answered your question. I I think so.

answered your question. I I think so. answered your question. I I think so. There's a lot of rabbit holes that can There's a lot of rabbit holes that can There's a lot of rabbit holes that can we can go down. Going to ask a side

we can go down. Going to ask a side we can go down. Going to ask a side question where it's like I know you're

question where it's like I know you're question where it's like I know you're always looking at different I gaming

always looking at different I gaming always looking at different I gaming affiliate websites and we've seen ones

affiliate websites and we've seen ones affiliate websites and we've seen ones that are not doing well. We don't want

that are not doing well. We don't want that are not doing well. We don't want to name them because it's like times are

to name them because it's like times are to name them because it's like times are tough for certain affiliates. What are

tough for certain affiliates. What are tough for certain affiliates. What are you seeing as patterns of what they're

you seeing as patterns of what they're you seeing as patterns of what they're doing wrong? Do you just think like they

doing wrong? Do you just think like they doing wrong? Do you just think like they haven't understood how SEO's changed and

haven't understood how SEO's changed and haven't understood how SEO's changed and they're still doing what got them to

they're still doing what got them to they're still doing what got them to where they were, but they're like they

where they were, but they're like they where they were, but they're like they can't actually just change. Is that all

can't actually just change. Is that all can't actually just change. Is that all that really is?

that really is? that really is? depends from website to website. But in

depends from website to website. But in depends from website to website. But in terms of in terms of mindset, if you're

terms of in terms of mindset, if you're terms of in terms of mindset, if you're doing what brought you rankings seven

doing what brought you rankings seven doing what brought you rankings seven years ago, it's no longer enough.

years ago, it's no longer enough. years ago, it's no longer enough. Meaning, if you're bombarding your

Meaning, if you're bombarding your Meaning, if you're bombarding your website with links, it's no longer

website with links, it's no longer website with links, it's no longer enough in certain marks markets.

enough in certain marks markets. enough in certain marks markets. Possibly now even in all markets. But

Possibly now even in all markets. But Possibly now even in all markets. But caveat to that like I like there could

caveat to that like I like there could caveat to that like I like there could be like still Malaysia and other

be like still Malaysia and other be like still Malaysia and other countries that that this is working

countries that that this is working countries that that this is working really well. But let's let's keep it

really well. But let's let's keep it really well. But let's let's keep it like this. Also there

like this. Also there like this. Also there are I'm just going to take a look at the

are I'm just going to take a look at the are I'm just going to take a look at the content and obviously the content looks

content and obviously the content looks content and obviously the content looks like very low quality and it doesn't

like very low quality and it doesn't like very low quality and it doesn't provide any other value than the other

provide any other value than the other provide any other value than the other than the other competitors are

than the other competitors are than the other competitors are providing. You can see inconsistencies.

providing. You can see inconsistencies. providing. You can see inconsistencies. You can see that it's just oh just add a

You can see that it's just oh just add a You can see that it's just oh just add a paragraph so that we could get the

paragraph so that we could get the paragraph so that we could get the freshness. There are also like some some

freshness. There are also like some some freshness. There are also like some some errors that people apply thinking that

errors that people apply thinking that errors that people apply thinking that oh I'm going to use this boost tactic

oh I'm going to use this boost tactic oh I'm going to use this boost tactic and I'm going to get to the first page

and I'm going to get to the first page and I'm going to get to the first page and then they just won't bear the

and then they just won't bear the and then they just won't bear the of the traffic trying to replicate nav

of the traffic trying to replicate nav of the traffic trying to replicate nav boost or whatever trending signal that

boost or whatever trending signal that boost or whatever trending signal that they're looking at. I don't want to name

they're looking at. I don't want to name they're looking at. I don't want to name any tactics, but you can just see some

any tactics, but you can just see some any tactics, but you can just see some tactics works work until they don't. And

tactics works work until they don't. And tactics works work until they don't. And good SEOs, they don't have egos. And

good SEOs, they don't have egos. And good SEOs, they don't have egos. And they're very much okay with being wrong.

they're very much okay with being wrong. they're very much okay with being wrong. They're very much okay with being called

They're very much okay with being called They're very much okay with being called out being wrong because Google does it

out being wrong because Google does it out being wrong because Google does it all the time to us. Google is going to

all the time to us. Google is going to all the time to us. Google is going to dank or uprank your website and you'll

dank or uprank your website and you'll dank or uprank your website and you'll be like, "Okay, I need to figure out why

be like, "Okay, I need to figure out why be like, "Okay, I need to figure out why this happened." And if you are an SEO

this happened." And if you are an SEO this happened." And if you are an SEO with an ego, then technically you think

with an ego, then technically you think with an ego, then technically you think that you've done everything correctly.

that you've done everything correctly. that you've done everything correctly. Meanwhile, it's not about you. It's

Meanwhile, it's not about you. It's Meanwhile, it's not about you. It's about the new how algorithm is

about the new how algorithm is about the new how algorithm is perceiving your website. And it could be

perceiving your website. And it could be perceiving your website. And it could be something completely different. And if

something completely different. And if something completely different. And if you don't have the critical thinking to

you don't have the critical thinking to you don't have the critical thinking to understand and look at your website

understand and look at your website understand and look at your website critically and try and figure out like

critically and try and figure out like critically and try and figure out like what is what could be improved on that

what is what could be improved on that what is what could be improved on that website, then then that could be your

website, then then that could be your website, then then that could be your biggest problem. Outdated tactics, too

biggest problem. Outdated tactics, too biggest problem. Outdated tactics, too many too many tactics, too many things

many too many tactics, too many things many too many tactics, too many things all the time, too many changes, not

all the time, too many changes, not all the time, too many changes, not enough changes. It really depends from

enough changes. It really depends from enough changes. It really depends from the website to website. But I've never

the website to website. But I've never the website to website. But I've never it's not that I've never seen I've seen

it's not that I've never seen I've seen it's not that I've never seen I've seen websites with shitty content rank. But

websites with shitty content rank. But websites with shitty content rank. But that's my opinion of Yeah. And

that's my opinion of Yeah. And that's my opinion of Yeah. And then when I look at them from a then when I look at them from a then when I look at them from a different perspective, I like I look at

different perspective, I like I look at different perspective, I like I look at like the spacing between the key terms.

like the spacing between the key terms. like the spacing between the key terms. I look at search intent. I there are

I look at search intent. I there are I look at search intent. I there are ways that I analyze who's the best in

ways that I analyze who's the best in ways that I analyze who's the best in terms of search intent for certain

terms of search intent for certain terms of search intent for certain keywords, etc. and then you get the

keywords, etc. and then you get the keywords, etc. and then you get the point and then you're like, "Okay, like

point and then you're like, "Okay, like point and then you're like, "Okay, like this content may not be should it's laid

this content may not be should it's laid this content may not be should it's laid out differently and then Google thinks

out differently and then Google thinks out differently and then Google thinks it's more succinct or like better and

it's more succinct or like better and it's more succinct or like better and then they prefer this to some of the

then they prefer this to some of the then they prefer this to some of the other websites or vice versa. It's too

other websites or vice versa. It's too other websites or vice versa. It's too long. It's too fluffy and Google doesn't

long. It's too fluffy and Google doesn't long. It's too fluffy and Google doesn't understand what the writer wanted to understand what the writer wanted to understand what the writer wanted to say." Yeah. So, it really Yeah. I hope I

say." Yeah. So, it really Yeah. I hope I say." Yeah. So, it really Yeah. I hope I answered your question. Yeah. It's a

answered your question. Yeah. It's a answered your question. Yeah. It's a great way to to look at it because the

great way to to look at it because the great way to to look at it because the way I see it is what you described is

way I see it is what you described is way I see it is what you described is ego is a problem because when you have

ego is a problem because when you have ego is a problem because when you have an ego, you're not willing to be wrong.

an ego, you're not willing to be wrong. an ego, you're not willing to be wrong. You're not willing to talk to other You're not willing to talk to other You're not willing to talk to other people. Like you you with an ego, you

people. Like you you with an ego, you people. Like you you with an ego, you would actually literally not contact any

would actually literally not contact any would actually literally not contact any of these people and go, "Hey, can I hire

of these people and go, "Hey, can I hire of these people and go, "Hey, can I hire you for an hour or a couple hours and

you for an hour or a couple hours and you for an hour or a couple hours and get your help? Maybe you can see get your help? Maybe you can see get your help? Maybe you can see something." It's like they're in their something." It's like they're in their something." It's like they're in their own silo and and they're not at Mai

own silo and and they're not at Mai own silo and and they're not at Mai where you'll be hanging out or some of

where you'll be hanging out or some of where you'll be hanging out or some of these other SEO conferences. It's that

these other SEO conferences. It's that these other SEO conferences. It's that that's the difference of what I see of

that's the difference of what I see of that's the difference of what I see of some of the people that are actually some of the people that are actually some of the people that are actually doing really right now and they're

doing really right now and they're doing really right now and they're almost laughing. They're like, "This is

almost laughing. They're like, "This is almost laughing. They're like, "This is actually even better than before." I'm

actually even better than before." I'm actually even better than before." I'm like, "Wow, it's that good."

like, "Wow, it's that good." like, "Wow, it's that good." I whatever you said, I I think it's very

I whatever you said, I I think it's very I whatever you said, I I think it's very important for the SEOs to just

important for the SEOs to just important for the SEOs to just understand that we're trying

understand that we're trying understand that we're trying to convince, let's face it, we're trying

to convince, let's face it, we're trying to convince, let's face it, we're trying to game Google's algorithm to convince

to game Google's algorithm to convince to game Google's algorithm to convince it that we're the best result out there.

it that we're the best result out there. it that we're the best result out there. Sometimes you can be the best result out

Sometimes you can be the best result out Sometimes you can be the best result out there by being the best result out

there by being the best result out there by being the best result out there. Sometimes you can do it by trying

there. Sometimes you can do it by trying there. Sometimes you can do it by trying to remove the best results out there.

to remove the best results out there. to remove the best results out there. Sometime with negative SEO attacks,

Sometime with negative SEO attacks, Sometime with negative SEO attacks, sometimes you can just try and do the

sometimes you can just try and do the sometimes you can just try and do the best that you can. But if you're not

best that you can. But if you're not best that you can. But if you're not willing to learn, if you're not willing

willing to learn, if you're not willing willing to learn, if you're not willing to pivot, that's that's that's not

to pivot, that's that's that's not to pivot, that's that's that's not that's not in the spirit of SEO. like

that's not in the spirit of SEO. like that's not in the spirit of SEO. like SEOs. SEOs that truly like SEO, they

SEOs. SEOs that truly like SEO, they SEOs. SEOs that truly like SEO, they like it because they like the detective

like it because they like the detective like it because they like the detective work, like the figuring out part, the

work, like the figuring out part, the work, like the figuring out part, the what went right, the what went wrong,

what went right, the what went wrong, what went right, the what went wrong, the what's the next thing. And I think

the what's the next thing. And I think the what's the next thing. And I think if you have that like curiosity in you,

if you have that like curiosity in you, if you have that like curiosity in you, like there's no problem because I don't

like there's no problem because I don't like there's no problem because I don't think you need a specific Yeah, I don't

think you need a specific Yeah, I don't think you need a specific Yeah, I don't think you need to understand the

think you need to understand the think you need to understand the algorithm in order to be a good SEO. And

algorithm in order to be a good SEO. And algorithm in order to be a good SEO. And I'm going to quote one of the SEOs that

I'm going to quote one of the SEOs that I'm going to quote one of the SEOs that that told me something and I truly loved

that told me something and I truly loved that told me something and I truly loved it. He says, "Do you know how I train my

it. He says, "Do you know how I train my it. He says, "Do you know how I train my people?" I'm like, "H" and he's I give

people?" I'm like, "H" and he's I give people?" I'm like, "H" and he's I give them a website and I tell them, "You

them a website and I tell them, "You them a website and I tell them, "You have a month to get this website

have a month to get this website have a month to get this website penalized." And first thing that they do

penalized." And first thing that they do penalized." And first thing that they do is do they go to Fiverr and buy links?

is do they go to Fiverr and buy links? is do they go to Fiverr and buy links? And he Yes. The first thing they do is

And he Yes. The first thing they do is And he Yes. The first thing they do is they go to Fiverr, they buy links, and

they go to Fiverr, they buy links, and they go to Fiverr, they buy links, and what happens? the website starts ranking

what happens? the website starts ranking what happens? the website starts ranking and the website starts ranking. That's

and the website starts ranking. That's and the website starts ranking. That's amazing because like you need to test

amazing because like you need to test amazing because like you need to test these things out. There's a lot of noise

these things out. There's a lot of noise these things out. There's a lot of noise in the SEO world. There's a lot of noise

in the SEO world. There's a lot of noise in the SEO world. There's a lot of noise in the SEO world and we're creating one

in the SEO world and we're creating one in the SEO world and we're creating one but you need to test your things and

but you need to test your things and but you need to test your things and like you doing a website trying to rank

like you doing a website trying to rank like you doing a website trying to rank a page or just I think Mark Mark Cook

a page or just I think Mark Mark Cook a page or just I think Mark Mark Cook took some of his old content, published

took some of his old content, published took some of his old content, published it on LinkedIn and just started ranking

it on LinkedIn and just started ranking it on LinkedIn and just started ranking right away. and he called it like the

right away. and he called it like the right away. and he called it like the 72-hour SEO hack just like test things

72-hour SEO hack just like test things 72-hour SEO hack just like test things and that's what SEO is all about. We

and that's what SEO is all about. We and that's what SEO is all about. We tried to test things and figure things

tried to test things and figure things tried to test things and figure things out. Yeah. What I like about SEO is I

out. Yeah. What I like about SEO is I out. Yeah. What I like about SEO is I refer to it as the original online

refer to it as the original online refer to it as the original online marketing business intelligence. We're

marketing business intelligence. We're marketing business intelligence. We're trying to talk about business trying to talk about business trying to talk about business intelligence and affiliate marketing and intelligence and affiliate marketing and intelligence and affiliate marketing and it's what is search console analytics

it's what is search console analytics it's what is search console analytics seamrush hrefs and streaming frog.

seamrush hrefs and streaming frog. seamrush hrefs and streaming frog. They're the OG tools of business

They're the OG tools of business They're the OG tools of business intelligence. This is what I think it

intelligence. This is what I think it intelligence. This is what I think it comes down to. comes down to. comes down to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree with

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree with Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree with that. That's a very good categorization.

that. That's a very good categorization. that. That's a very good categorization. Yeah. So, last question. Speaking of

Yeah. So, last question. Speaking of Yeah. So, last question. Speaking of business intelligence, what do you see

business intelligence, what do you see business intelligence, what do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as

of the future of affiliate marketing as of the future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business it intersects with business it intersects with business intelligence?

This is one of those questions that I This is one of those questions that I wished that I could I would received

wished that I could I would received wished that I could I would received earlier so I could prepare an answer.

earlier so I could prepare an answer. earlier so I could prepare an answer. And it would have helped if I sent it on

And it would have helped if I sent it on And it would have helped if I sent it on time, not less than an hour before. Nah,

time, not less than an hour before. Nah, time, not less than an hour before. Nah, it's fine. I didn't even see them. Okay.

it's fine. I didn't even see them. Okay. it's fine. I didn't even see them. Okay. affiliate market, marketing and business

affiliate market, marketing and business affiliate market, marketing and business intelligence. What do I see it as a

intelligence. What do I see it as a intelligence. What do I see it as a future, right? Yeah. As they intersect

future, right? Yeah. As they intersect future, right? Yeah. As they intersect with each other.

with each other. with each other. I honestly what would I love to see is

I honestly what would I love to see is I honestly what would I love to see is like the full circle. The full circle

like the full circle. The full circle like the full circle. The full circle like Google being able to share with us

like Google being able to share with us like Google being able to share with us like a lot of data like where they sent

like a lot of data like where they sent like a lot of data like where they sent like which keyword, what time etc. like

like which keyword, what time etc. like like which keyword, what time etc. like very and full data also like they're

very and full data also like they're very and full data also like they're also excluding a lot of data like from

also excluding a lot of data like from also excluding a lot of data like from Google search console you have to get it

Google search console you have to get it Google search console you have to get it into look and then whatever but yeah

into look and then whatever but yeah into look and then whatever but yeah they're excluding a lot of data and I

they're excluding a lot of data and I they're excluding a lot of data and I would love to see the full set of data

would love to see the full set of data would love to see the full set of data and then I would love to see the full

and then I would love to see the full and then I would love to see the full circle like from the keyword to the FTD

circle like from the keyword to the FTD circle like from the keyword to the FTD or whatever the downloading the PDF or

or whatever the downloading the PDF or or whatever the downloading the PDF or whatever the affiliates goal is I'm not

whatever the affiliates goal is I'm not whatever the affiliates goal is I'm not just talking here about gambling but

just talking here about gambling but just talking here about gambling but whatever the goal is And I would I would

whatever the goal is And I would I would whatever the goal is And I would I would love to say that data and for me in

love to say that data and for me in love to say that data and for me in terms of understanding

terms of understanding terms of understanding Google

who I think they're providing us a lot who I think they're providing us a lot of data already which is really nice.

of data already which is really nice. of data already which is really nice. You can see almost a lot of things in

You can see almost a lot of things in You can see almost a lot of things in Google search console and a lot of SEOs

Google search console and a lot of SEOs Google search console and a lot of SEOs love it. Some don't trust it, but like a

love it. Some don't trust it, but like a love it. Some don't trust it, but like a lot of SEOs love it and we see it. And I

lot of SEOs love it and we see it. And I lot of SEOs love it and we see it. And I think what else would I love to see?

think what else would I love to see? think what else would I love to see? They're not including AI overviews just

They're not including AI overviews just They're not including AI overviews just yet. Just yet. So that would be really

yet. Just yet. So that would be really yet. Just yet. So that would be really nice to see like how much actually are

nice to see like how much actually are nice to see like how much actually are you getting? And I think like the reason you getting? And I think like the reason you getting? And I think like the reason is because you're not getting that could

is because you're not getting that could is because you're not getting that could be it. But like we've had the discovery

be it. But like we've had the discovery be it. But like we've had the discovery part. we had all the other Google search

part. we had all the other Google search part. we had all the other Google search console options of like traffic sources.

console options of like traffic sources. console options of like traffic sources. So AI over could be one of those that

So AI over could be one of those that So AI over could be one of those that would be really nice to see and and I

would be really nice to see and and I would be really nice to see and and I just love data and I would just love to

just love data and I would just love to just love data and I would just love to have like more of it. Yeah, just give us

have like more of it. Yeah, just give us have like more of it. Yeah, just give us more data. I agree. We're working on a

more data. I agree. We're working on a more data. I agree. We're working on a few data projects where we hope we can

few data projects where we hope we can few data projects where we hope we can actually be a source of data that's not

actually be a source of data that's not actually be a source of data that's not been seen before. We don't look at our

been seen before. We don't look at our been seen before. We don't look at our customers data, but maybe there's a

customers data, but maybe there's a customers data, but maybe there's a future where they would be able to share future where they would be able to share future where they would be able to share it and anonymize it so people could

it and anonymize it so people could it and anonymize it so people could actually see which casinos and sports

actually see which casinos and sports actually see which casinos and sports books convert the best in each market.

books convert the best in each market. books convert the best in each market. And how does that change in time?

And how does that change in time? And how does that change in time? Because none of this is linear. It's

Because none of this is linear. It's Because none of this is linear. It's it's always changing as you add a

it's always changing as you add a it's always changing as you add a project, as you subtract the a product,

project, as you subtract the a product, project, as you subtract the a product, as you add a payment method, as you lose

as you add a payment method, as you lose as you add a payment method, as you lose one, as something happens or a change of

one, as something happens or a change of one, as something happens or a change of ownership. There's too many things that ownership. There's too many things that ownership. There's too many things that are major factors in all these products

are major factors in all these products are major factors in all these products and nothing's nothing's static. It's day

and nothing's nothing's static. It's day and nothing's nothing's static. It's day by day. Anything could change. Yeah,

by day. Anything could change. Yeah, by day. Anything could change. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I could not agree

exactly. Exactly. I could not agree exactly. Exactly. I could not agree more. Yeah. Maya, thank you so much for

more. Yeah. Maya, thank you so much for more. Yeah. Maya, thank you so much for doing this. I want to pass it back to

doing this. I want to pass it back to doing this. I want to pass it back to you to ask how can people get a hold of

you to ask how can people get a hold of you to ask how can people get a hold of you? And one last reminder that they can

you? And one last reminder that they can you? And one last reminder that they can also read your chapter in this I gaming

also read your chapter in this I gaming also read your chapter in this I gaming SEO book as well. It's actually a really

SEO book as well. It's actually a really SEO book as well. It's actually a really loving book. I lovely book. I I'm happy

loving book. I lovely book. I I'm happy loving book. I lovely book. I I'm happy to have contributed to it. We were

to have contributed to it. We were to have contributed to it. We were joking around that like I'm the only

joking around that like I'm the only joking around that like I'm the only woman at the cover and then we were

woman at the cover and then we were woman at the cover and then we were joking around who should get the wig in

joking around who should get the wig in joking around who should get the wig in the the the next but I think professionally it's

next but I think professionally it's next but I think professionally it's best on LinkedIn because like I share

best on LinkedIn because like I share best on LinkedIn because like I share the photos of my travels on my personal

the photos of my travels on my personal the photos of my travels on my personal Facebook car LinkedIn is more than

Facebook car LinkedIn is more than Facebook car LinkedIn is more than enough. LinkedIn it will be and then

enough. LinkedIn it will be and then enough. LinkedIn it will be and then we'll chat behind the scenes about what we'll chat behind the scenes about what we'll chat behind the scenes about what you're working on next and looking you're working on next and looking you're working on next and looking forward to it. LinkedIn

Thank you for tuning in to the Thank you for tuning in to the AffiliateBI podcast. I'd like to take

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