Solving compliance in affiliate marketing with Ian Sims of Rightlander

one of the things I touched on was was one of the things I touched on was was content writers I think there's a lot of

content writers I think there's a lot of content writers I think there's a lot of content writers in the industry that content writers in the industry that content writers in the industry that don't necessarily understand the

don't necessarily understand the don't necessarily understand the psychology behind players or they don't

psychology behind players or they don't psychology behind players or they don't think as consumers would so they're

think as consumers would so they're think as consumers would so they're writing from a marketing and a sales

writing from a marketing and a sales writing from a marketing and a sales perspective um when actually if you

perspective um when actually if you perspective um when actually if you switch your mindset and get them

switch your mindset and get them switch your mindset and get them educated on thinking like a consumer and

educated on thinking like a consumer and educated on thinking like a consumer and how that information is being presented

how that information is being presented how that information is being presented to them then you're going to get rid of

to them then you're going to get rid of to them then you're going to get rid of a lot of the sort of the simpler

a lot of the sort of the simpler a lot of the sort of the simpler compliance

compliance compliance issues I'm John Wright and you're

issues I'm John Wright and you're issues I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business

listening to affiliate bi the business listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by statr so welcome to the affiliate bi

statr so welcome to the affiliate bi statr so welcome to the affiliate bi podcast I got a special guest uh someone

podcast I got a special guest uh someone podcast I got a special guest uh someone I've known in affiliate marketing and

I've known in affiliate marketing and I've known in affiliate marketing and igaming for very long time uh we're both

igaming for very long time uh we're both igaming for very long time uh we're both uh I gaming dinosaurs and affiliate

uh I gaming dinosaurs and affiliate uh I gaming dinosaurs and affiliate marketing uh Ian I'm going to pass it to

marketing uh Ian I'm going to pass it to marketing uh Ian I'm going to pass it to you to do an introduction and tell us

you to do an introduction and tell us you to do an introduction and tell us what you're doing now and tell us a bit

what you're doing now and tell us a bit what you're doing now and tell us a bit bit about your your history in IG gaming

bit about your your history in IG gaming bit about your your history in IG gaming and affiliate marketing sure hi John

and affiliate marketing sure hi John and affiliate marketing sure hi John thanks for having me on um yeah a lot of

thanks for having me on um yeah a lot of thanks for having me on um yeah a lot of you may already know me I've been an you may already know me I've been an you may already know me I've been an affiliate or was an affiliate I should affiliate or was an affiliate I should affiliate or was an affiliate I should say for a good well 12 years from 2004

say for a good well 12 years from 2004 say for a good well 12 years from 2004 to 2016 when I sold my affiliate Network

to 2016 when I sold my affiliate Network to 2016 when I sold my affiliate Network I I mainly in iame in I gaming sort of

I I mainly in iame in I gaming sort of I I mainly in iame in I gaming sort of doing casino and Slots um I'm a

doing casino and Slots um I'm a doing casino and Slots um I'm a programmer by trade before that I was uh

programmer by trade before that I was uh programmer by trade before that I was uh working for banks and financial

working for banks and financial working for banks and financial institutions is not quite so exciting um

institutions is not quite so exciting um institutions is not quite so exciting um but yeah ultimately sold my network and

but yeah ultimately sold my network and but yeah ultimately sold my network and then started up right Lander which we'll

then started up right Lander which we'll then started up right Lander which we'll obviously talk a little bit more about obviously talk a little bit more about obviously talk a little bit more about later um in terms of how that fits into

later um in terms of how that fits into later um in terms of how that fits into the story but yeah compliance

the story but yeah compliance the story but yeah compliance unfortunately is done my thing or unfortunately is done my thing or unfortunately is done my thing or fortunately depending on how you how you fortunately depending on how you how you fortunately depending on how you how you look at it John yeah it's uh we're gonna

look at it John yeah it's uh we're gonna look at it John yeah it's uh we're gonna try to make compliance uh exciting and I

try to make compliance uh exciting and I try to make compliance uh exciting and I know you're were just on the Awin know you're were just on the Awin know you're were just on the Awin podcast recently So I listened to that

podcast recently So I listened to that podcast recently So I listened to that just to get some notes but I mean I

just to get some notes but I mean I just to get some notes but I mean I think we both kind of touch on think we both kind of touch on think we both kind of touch on compliance in different ways and we like

compliance in different ways and we like compliance in different ways and we like as an as an affiliate back five six

as an as an affiliate back five six as an as an affiliate back five six seven years ago started experiencing it

seven years ago started experiencing it seven years ago started experiencing it going wow this is is really painful and

going wow this is is really painful and going wow this is is really painful and I think uh I think you might have

I think uh I think you might have I think uh I think you might have stumbled in the right thing at the right

stumbled in the right thing at the right stumbled in the right thing at the right time it might not look sexy but everyone

time it might not look sexy but everyone time it might not look sexy but everyone kind of needs this work well I I think

kind of needs this work well I I think kind of needs this work well I I think compliance actually is not necessarily a

compliance actually is not necessarily a compliance actually is not necessarily a problem it can be a solution as as we'll

problem it can be a solution as as we'll problem it can be a solution as as we'll discuss a little bit as we go on I think discuss a little bit as we go on I think discuss a little bit as we go on I think it's very easy to think of compliance as

it's very easy to think of compliance as it's very easy to think of compliance as as a bad thing that you have to kind of

as a bad thing that you have to kind of as a bad thing that you have to kind of get round but actually if you think

get round but actually if you think get round but actually if you think outside the box a bit it can work in outside the box a bit it can work in outside the box a bit it can work in your favor and we'll we'll cover that a your favor and we'll we'll cover that a your favor and we'll we'll cover that a little bit so it's not quite as bad as

little bit so it's not quite as bad as little bit so it's not quite as bad as it seems well that explains like what

it seems well that explains like what it seems well that explains like what said earlier about having a programming

said earlier about having a programming said earlier about having a programming background because I remember some of

background because I remember some of background because I remember some of your sites and looking at them I mean I

your sites and looking at them I mean I your sites and looking at them I mean I looked at every affiliate site I could

looked at every affiliate site I could looked at every affiliate site I could get my hands on so when I looked through

get my hands on so when I looked through get my hands on so when I looked through yours they're very data focused like you

yours they're very data focused like you yours they're very data focused like you put data points about slot games that

put data points about slot games that put data points about slot games that I'm like are players interested in this

I'm like are players interested in this I'm like are players interested in this and what I believe was that they

and what I believe was that they and what I believe was that they probably were because I think you know

probably were because I think you know probably were because I think you know um that type of uh player better than

um that type of uh player better than um that type of uh player better than anyone where you broke down the data and

anyone where you broke down the data and anyone where you broke down the data and I think when you look at all the other

I think when you look at all the other I think when you look at all the other regular slot sites they're all just kind

regular slot sites they're all just kind regular slot sites they're all just kind of like the same so I just kind of want

of like the same so I just kind of want of like the same so I just kind of want to get your take on adding that extra

to get your take on adding that extra to get your take on adding that extra layer of data and really knowing your

layer of data and really knowing your layer of data and really knowing your customer and being able to do something

customer and being able to do something customer and being able to do something different that I I think most Affiliates

different that I I think most Affiliates different that I I think most Affiliates are just get lazy and they don't want to

are just get lazy and they don't want to are just get lazy and they don't want to they don't want to do that extra work

they don't want to do that extra work they don't want to do that extra work yeah I mean bear in mind that I came

yeah I mean bear in mind that I came yeah I mean bear in mind that I came into this industry as a player so I'm

into this industry as a player so I'm into this industry as a player so I'm enthusiastic as well about um casino

enthusiastic as well about um casino enthusiastic as well about um casino games video poker slots where my thing

games video poker slots where my thing games video poker slots where my thing still are when I go to Vegas so I think

still are when I go to Vegas so I think still are when I go to Vegas so I think that obviously helps a little bit when that obviously helps a little bit when that obviously helps a little bit when you've got an enthusiasm for something you've got an enthusiasm for something you've got an enthusiasm for something and being a programmer I kind of wanted

and being a programmer I kind of wanted and being a programmer I kind of wanted to marry the two to together so when I

to marry the two to together so when I to marry the two to together so when I first started it was kind of more about

first started it was kind of more about first started it was kind of more about the opinion side of things so you know

the opinion side of things so you know the opinion side of things so you know as a player and going and playing the

as a player and going and playing the as a player and going and playing the games whether it be online or offline I

games whether it be online or offline I games whether it be online or offline I felt I was well positioned to do that

felt I was well positioned to do that felt I was well positioned to do that much like influencers are today in their

much like influencers are today in their much like influencers are today in their different fields you know they they kind different fields you know they they kind different fields you know they they kind of they live a life and they they're of they live a life and they they're of they live a life and they they're enthusiastic about it they know what enthusiastic about it they know what enthusiastic about it they know what they're talking about and that's why they're talking about and that's why they're talking about and that's why they're so successful you know when

they're so successful you know when they're so successful you know when you're after information on a product or

you're after information on a product or you're after information on a product or or if you want someone to come and do or if you want someone to come and do or if you want someone to come and do some work in your house you go to The some work in your house you go to The some work in your house you go to The Experts rather than just you know

Experts rather than just you know Experts rather than just you know someone who says they know something someone who says they know something someone who says they know something about it so really when I first started

about it so really when I first started about it so really when I first started it was opinion-based but I think as as

it was opinion-based but I think as as it was opinion-based but I think as as kind of time went on and the affiliate

kind of time went on and the affiliate kind of time went on and the affiliate Landscapes changed and changed even more

Landscapes changed and changed even more Landscapes changed and changed even more since I left it and and obviously you're

since I left it and and obviously you're since I left it and and obviously you're at the behest of Google and various

at the behest of Google and various at the behest of Google and various other sort of traffic tools and it

other sort of traffic tools and it other sort of traffic tools and it really um data became more of a focus to

really um data became more of a focus to really um data became more of a focus to try and retain Authority which is kind

try and retain Authority which is kind try and retain Authority which is kind of what I was trying to build I think if

of what I was trying to build I think if of what I was trying to build I think if you can be an authority which is a key

you can be an authority which is a key you can be an authority which is a key word here then I think you you you can

word here then I think you you you can word here then I think you you you can get a bit further so that that's kind of get a bit further so that that's kind of get a bit further so that that's kind of the data thing came from and Slots

the data thing came from and Slots the data thing came from and Slots compara which was the U my main sort of

compara which was the U my main sort of compara which was the U my main sort of data site had a lot of data that we fed

data site had a lot of data that we fed data site had a lot of data that we fed in um on every slot game trying to

in um on every slot game trying to in um on every slot game trying to understand the psychology of a player understand the psychology of a player understand the psychology of a player and if you know if you liked Cleopatra

and if you know if you liked Cleopatra and if you know if you liked Cleopatra what other games you going to like yes

what other games you going to like yes what other games you going to like yes you might like Egyption theme slots But

you might like Egyption theme slots But you might like Egyption theme slots But ultimately it's more about the game ultimately it's more about the game ultimately it's more about the game playay and so it kind of fed in all this

playay and so it kind of fed in all this playay and so it kind of fed in all this data that then you could go and do a data that then you could go and do a data that then you could go and do a search on and get other games that kind

search on and get other games that kind search on and get other games that kind of will give you a similar Vibe so I've

of will give you a similar Vibe so I've of will give you a similar Vibe so I've always been a fan of data and using data

always been a fan of data and using data always been a fan of data and using data in that way and it takes opinion out of in that way and it takes opinion out of in that way and it takes opinion out of the equation um which still has a lot of

the equation um which still has a lot of the equation um which still has a lot of relevance but makes life for me a little

relevance but makes life for me a little relevance but makes life for me a little bit easier as a programmer that's an

bit easier as a programmer that's an bit easier as a programmer that's an interesting take you just highlighted

interesting take you just highlighted interesting take you just highlighted about combining this idea of authority

about combining this idea of authority about combining this idea of authority which is important and it's becoming

which is important and it's becoming which is important and it's becoming more important as time goes on with

more important as time goes on with more important as time goes on with Google but you know bringing it full

Google but you know bringing it full Google but you know bringing it full circle back to circle back to circle back to data yeah I mean Google's always been

data yeah I mean Google's always been data yeah I mean Google's always been talking about Authority um I guess I

talking about Authority um I guess I talking about Authority um I guess I guess back in the day it was more about

guess back in the day it was more about guess back in the day it was more about um Quality content that was the thing

um Quality content that was the thing um Quality content that was the thing wasn't it that was the phrase that wasn't it that was the phrase that wasn't it that was the phrase that everyone used and I think there was a

everyone used and I think there was a everyone used and I think there was a very different sort of take on what

very different sort of take on what very different sort of take on what quality content was to some people it

quality content was to some people it quality content was to some people it was well-written content which is kind

was well-written content which is kind was well-written content which is kind of what AI can do for you now and a lot

of what AI can do for you now and a lot of what AI can do for you now and a lot of it was not necessar well-written

of it was not necessar well-written of it was not necessar well-written content but actually knowing what you're content but actually knowing what you're content but actually knowing what you're talking about and I think when you go to

talking about and I think when you go to talking about and I think when you go to an opinion site you know if you go to an opinion site you know if you go to an opinion site you know if you go to Trip Advisor for example when you're Trip Advisor for example when you're Trip Advisor for example when you're going on holiday you want people that

going on holiday you want people that going on holiday you want people that have been there seen it done it and if

have been there seen it done it and if have been there seen it done it and if someone just says oh I think Roman is a

someone just says oh I think Roman is a someone just says oh I think Roman is a really nice place to go you know it's

really nice place to go you know it's really nice place to go you know it's got great Coliseum blah blah blah you

got great Coliseum blah blah blah you got great Coliseum blah blah blah you think it well yeah that's great I can

think it well yeah that's great I can think it well yeah that's great I can find that out from hundred different find that out from hundred different find that out from hundred different places but when someone says I've been places but when someone says I've been places but when someone says I've been to Rome I've been in the Coliseum by the

to Rome I've been in the Coliseum by the to Rome I've been in the Coliseum by the way you get ripped off and that's the St

way you get ripped off and that's the St way you get ripped off and that's the St of information you want so I've always

of information you want so I've always of information you want so I've always thought as Authority as being the sort

thought as Authority as being the sort thought as Authority as being the sort of stickiness that will make people come

of stickiness that will make people come of stickiness that will make people come back to you rather than just quality

back to you rather than just quality back to you rather than just quality content yeah I think that's a a topic

content yeah I think that's a a topic content yeah I think that's a a topic for another time of uh yeah probably I

for another time of uh yeah probably I for another time of uh yeah probably I mean Authority sounds so simple but it's

mean Authority sounds so simple but it's mean Authority sounds so simple but it's you're right it's uh there's a lot of

you're right it's uh there's a lot of you're right it's uh there's a lot of people that won't just take that extra people that won't just take that extra people that won't just take that extra time to do that work to become Authority

time to do that work to become Authority time to do that work to become Authority and you got to live you can get people

and you got to live you can get people and you got to live you can get people doing it for you you know you don't have

doing it for you you know you don't have doing it for you you know you don't have to be the authority yourself if you've to be the authority yourself if you've to be the authority yourself if you've got a team of people that know what got a team of people that know what got a team of people that know what they're talking about I mean this goes

they're talking about I mean this goes they're talking about I mean this goes into the whole content writing thing into the whole content writing thing into the whole content writing thing which actually is also one of the

which actually is also one of the which actually is also one of the biggest problems when it comes to biggest problems when it comes to biggest problems when it comes to compliance I should point out which we

compliance I should point out which we compliance I should point out which we can talk about but you know it doesn't

can talk about but you know it doesn't can talk about but you know it doesn't have to be you as the authority

have to be you as the authority have to be you as the authority providing that they think you've got

providing that they think you've got providing that they think you've got authoritative

authoritative authoritative information okay I want to go into your

information okay I want to go into your information okay I want to go into your story of how did right Lander come

story of how did right Lander come story of how did right Lander come about okay so it was an accident be

about okay so it was an accident be about okay so it was an accident be honest with you I love these

honest with you I love these honest with you I love these stories so when I saw my network um to

stories so when I saw my network um to stories so when I saw my network um to bxa in in malter in 2016 I kind of

bxa in in malter in 2016 I kind of bxa in in malter in 2016 I kind of wanted a reason to stay involved in the

wanted a reason to stay involved in the wanted a reason to stay involved in the industry because I loved all the industry because I loved all the industry because I loved all the conferences a lot of friends in the conferences a lot of friends in the conferences a lot of friends in the industry thoroughly enjoyed it it was

industry thoroughly enjoyed it it was industry thoroughly enjoyed it it was great and I thought there's probably great and I thought there's probably great and I thought there's probably more opportunities in there for me but I

more opportunities in there for me but I more opportunities in there for me but I didn't necessarily want to LEAP into didn't necessarily want to LEAP into didn't necessarily want to LEAP into something else so so so quickly so I had

something else so so so quickly so I had something else so so so quickly so I had I'd built this tool for myself which is

I'd built this tool for myself which is I'd built this tool for myself which is basically just uh it used to go out

basically just uh it used to go out basically just uh it used to go out every night and screenshot all the

every night and screenshot all the every night and screenshot all the landing pages that I was sending all my

landing pages that I was sending all my landing pages that I was sending all my traffic to across all the sort of

traffic to across all the sort of traffic to across all the sort of operators and every morning I could just

operators and every morning I could just operators and every morning I could just I'm a cup of tea and look at the I'm a cup of tea and look at the I'm a cup of tea and look at the pictures and think okay that one's pictures and think okay that one's pictures and think okay that one's broken that one's changed that's not broken that one's changed that's not broken that one's changed that's not relevant and fix them up so I thought

relevant and fix them up so I thought relevant and fix them up so I thought I'll take that to Market when I sold my I'll take that to Market when I sold my I'll take that to Market when I sold my site it's a great way of keeping you

site it's a great way of keeping you site it's a great way of keeping you know in the industry and Affiliates know in the industry and Affiliates know in the industry and Affiliates would probably appreciate that and as I

would probably appreciate that and as I would probably appreciate that and as I was building it um basically the ukgc

was building it um basically the ukgc was building it um basically the ukgc said actually compliance um we're quite

said actually compliance um we're quite said actually compliance um we're quite interested in this now and it all sort

interested in this now and it all sort interested in this now and it all sort of happened over that sort of year

of happened over that sort of year of happened over that sort of year period that I was building it so I just

period that I was building it so I just period that I was building it so I just kind of tweaked the tool to see if it

kind of tweaked the tool to see if it kind of tweaked the tool to see if it could pull out data from websites as it

could pull out data from websites as it could pull out data from websites as it was a bit of a scraper anyway and that's

was a bit of a scraper anyway and that's was a bit of a scraper anyway and that's how rightand it came about it's how rightand it came about it's how rightand it came about it's essentially we had a knock on the door

essentially we had a knock on the door essentially we had a knock on the door 2018 very beginning of from Leo Vegas

2018 very beginning of from Leo Vegas 2018 very beginning of from Leo Vegas and then another knock on the door from

and then another knock on the door from and then another knock on the door from um beo at the time who'd both been hit

um beo at the time who'd both been hit um beo at the time who'd both been hit with fines saying you can you help us

with fines saying you can you help us with fines saying you can you help us and that's kind of where it snowballed and that's kind of where it snowballed and that's kind of where it snowballed from I like The Accidental stories but

from I like The Accidental stories but from I like The Accidental stories but um it's also a really interesting timing

um it's also a really interesting timing um it's also a really interesting timing for you it's uh I remember I remember

for you it's uh I remember I remember for you it's uh I remember I remember getting all these compliance emails 2017

getting all these compliance emails 2017 getting all these compliance emails 2017 coming in all the same time and for me

coming in all the same time and for me coming in all the same time and for me it was H painful being an affiliate

it was H painful being an affiliate it was H painful being an affiliate having to fix uh a compliance issue that

having to fix uh a compliance issue that having to fix uh a compliance issue that would save me $500 that would cost me$

would save me $500 that would cost me$ would save me $500 that would cost me$ 10,000 to do

10,000 to do 10,000 to do programming yeah look look I think I

programming yeah look look I think I programming yeah look look I think I think you know compliance hit everyone

think you know compliance hit everyone think you know compliance hit everyone quite hard and no one really knew what

quite hard and no one really knew what quite hard and no one really knew what they were talking about at that stage they were talking about at that stage they were talking about at that stage you know there were no you know there were no you know there were no rules um and so it took a little while

rules um and so it took a little while rules um and so it took a little while for people to kind of understand what it

for people to kind of understand what it for people to kind of understand what it meant um but I think at that point yeah

meant um but I think at that point yeah meant um but I think at that point yeah it was seen as a real pain in the

it was seen as a real pain in the it was seen as a real pain in the proverbial but I think as time's gone on

proverbial but I think as time's gone on proverbial but I think as time's gone on I think you can think about this

I think you can think about this I think you can think about this differently if an affiliate shifts their

differently if an affiliate shifts their differently if an affiliate shifts their mindset a little bit and thinks actually

mindset a little bit and thinks actually mindset a little bit and thinks actually in every problem there's an opportunity

in every problem there's an opportunity in every problem there's an opportunity and and if you think about compliance as

and and if you think about compliance as and and if you think about compliance as an opportunity rather than a problem you

an opportunity rather than a problem you an opportunity rather than a problem you can actually see some real benefits from

can actually see some real benefits from can actually see some real benefits from it because you can manage the it because you can manage the it because you can manage the expectations of consumers and if you can

expectations of consumers and if you can expectations of consumers and if you can do that then basically all the way up

do that then basically all the way up do that then basically all the way up the chain from the moment the consumer the chain from the moment the consumer the chain from the moment the consumer arrives at your website right through

arrives at your website right through arrives at your website right through them becoming you know a a signed up a

them becoming you know a a signed up a them becoming you know a a signed up a signed up customer an operator everyone

signed up customer an operator everyone signed up customer an operator everyone up that chain is going to be much more

up that chain is going to be much more up that chain is going to be much more appreciative of the fact they've got appreciative of the fact they've got appreciative of the fact they've got someone that understands what they're someone that understands what they're someone that understands what they're getting into so I think it benefits

getting into so I think it benefits getting into so I think it benefits every you just got to think differently every you just got to think differently every you just got to think differently about compliance and not see it as a as

about compliance and not see it as a as about compliance and not see it as a as a pain point and see it how it can help

a pain point and see it how it can help a pain point and see it how it can help you and there are other ways the data you and there are other ways the data you and there are other ways the data that compliance can give you and the way that compliance can give you and the way that compliance can give you and the way it makes you position the data on your

it makes you position the data on your it makes you position the data on your website the focus perhaps you put on

website the focus perhaps you put on website the focus perhaps you put on promotions and terms and conditions and

promotions and terms and conditions and promotions and terms and conditions and stuff it shifts all that you just got to

stuff it shifts all that you just got to stuff it shifts all that you just got to think a little bit differently it's an

think a little bit differently it's an think a little bit differently it's an interesting take you're highlighting

interesting take you're highlighting interesting take you're highlighting which is compliance could well it's not

which is compliance could well it's not which is compliance could well it's not that it could it probably does and it

that it could it probably does and it that it could it probably does and it should improve the conversion rate for

should improve the conversion rate for should improve the conversion rate for Affiliates for players for

Affiliates for players for Affiliates for players for operators

operators operators yeah ultimately everyone's trying to you

yeah ultimately everyone's trying to you yeah ultimately everyone's trying to you know the whole idea of compliance at the know the whole idea of compliance at the know the whole idea of compliance at the moment what Regulators are doing is moment what Regulators are doing is moment what Regulators are doing is trying to protect the consumer there's

trying to protect the consumer there's trying to protect the consumer there's also an element of Brands wanting to

also an element of Brands wanting to also an element of Brands wanting to protect their brand integrity and their

protect their brand integrity and their protect their brand integrity and their risk and obviously if they get fined it

risk and obviously if they get fined it risk and obviously if they get fined it threatens the Integrity of affiliate

threatens the Integrity of affiliate threatens the Integrity of affiliate programs as well so don't get me wrong

programs as well so don't get me wrong programs as well so don't get me wrong there are lots of things to think about

there are lots of things to think about there are lots of things to think about um and and issues at hand but ultimately

um and and issues at hand but ultimately um and and issues at hand but ultimately if you've got happy consumers you're

if you've got happy consumers you're if you've got happy consumers you're going to have a happy industry you won't

going to have a happy industry you won't going to have a happy industry you won't have you have a lot less of the problem

have you have a lot less of the problem have you have a lot less of the problem players on on on your books you'll have

players on on on your books you'll have players on on on your books you'll have people that understand what they're people that understand what they're people that understand what they're getting into a bit more they won't just getting into a bit more they won't just getting into a bit more they won't just be focused on all free money which is

be focused on all free money which is be focused on all free money which is always has been and always will be a

always has been and always will be a always has been and always will be a problem because it it appeals to human

problem because it it appeals to human problem because it it appeals to human greed and that's never a good thing when

greed and that's never a good thing when greed and that's never a good thing when you're selling something yeah and yeah

you're selling something yeah and yeah you're selling something yeah and yeah I'm a I'm a big fan of actually managing

I'm a I'm a big fan of actually managing I'm a I'm a big fan of actually managing expectations and I always used to do expectations and I always used to do expectations and I always used to do that on my slot slot sites I didn't used

that on my slot slot sites I didn't used that on my slot slot sites I didn't used to promote bonuses at all or very rarely

to promote bonuses at all or very rarely to promote bonuses at all or very rarely I might mention them but they certainly I might mention them but they certainly I might mention them but they certainly weren't Focus because I always saw that

weren't Focus because I always saw that weren't Focus because I always saw that as an extra that someone would get when as an extra that someone would get when as an extra that someone would get when they got to the website so if they were they got to the website so if they were they got to the website so if they were keen on going through to play you know keen on going through to play you know keen on going through to play you know XYZ casino and then they get there and

XYZ casino and then they get there and XYZ casino and then they get there and financially you also get $50 for playing

financially you also get $50 for playing financially you also get $50 for playing that's like lifting their expectations

that's like lifting their expectations that's like lifting their expectations even further and I guess that's the

even further and I guess that's the even further and I guess that's the difference between us two selling

difference between us two selling difference between us two selling affiliate sites and you sold a bler and

affiliate sites and you sold a bler and affiliate sites and you sold a bler and probably got a lot more for

probably got a lot more for probably got a lot more for it yeah yeah I'm not gonna lie it's a

it yeah yeah I'm not gonna lie it's a it yeah yeah I'm not gonna lie it's a good deal yeah uh so what would you say

good deal yeah uh so what would you say good deal yeah uh so what would you say are some of the different uh like common

are some of the different uh like common are some of the different uh like common compliance uh issues that you see for

compliance uh issues that you see for compliance uh issues that you see for maybe on the operator side and obviously

maybe on the operator side and obviously maybe on the operator side and obviously spilling into the affiliate side of

spilling into the affiliate side of spilling into the affiliate side of business I think one of the things I

business I think one of the things I business I think one of the things I touched on was was content writers I

touched on was was content writers I touched on was was content writers I think there's a lot of content writers think there's a lot of content writers think there's a lot of content writers in the industry that don't necessarily

in the industry that don't necessarily in the industry that don't necessarily understand the psychology behind players

understand the psychology behind players understand the psychology behind players or they don't think as consumers would

or they don't think as consumers would or they don't think as consumers would so they're writing from a marketing and

so they're writing from a marketing and so they're writing from a marketing and a sales perspective um when actually if

a sales perspective um when actually if a sales perspective um when actually if you switch your mindset and get them

you switch your mindset and get them you switch your mindset and get them educated on thinking like a consumer and

educated on thinking like a consumer and educated on thinking like a consumer and how that information has been presented

how that information has been presented how that information has been presented to them then you're going to get rid of

to them then you're going to get rid of to them then you're going to get rid of a lot of the sort of the simpler

a lot of the sort of the simpler a lot of the sort of the simpler compliance issu so for example we come

compliance issu so for example we come compliance issu so for example we come across a lot of text um a lot of

across a lot of text um a lot of across a lot of text um a lot of phraseology and a lot of um information

phraseology and a lot of um information phraseology and a lot of um information that's very much designed to make people

that's very much designed to make people that's very much designed to make people think they can make money from gambling

think they can make money from gambling think they can make money from gambling however you look at it that's however you look at it that's however you look at it that's essentially what the text is saying and

essentially what the text is saying and essentially what the text is saying and that's not the right approach if if you

that's not the right approach if if you that's not the right approach if if you if you go to someone with that and put

if you go to someone with that and put if you go to someone with that and put that in their heads they're coming in that in their heads they're coming in that in their heads they're coming in really for the wrong reasons you know

really for the wrong reasons you know really for the wrong reasons you know there is this argument gambling is can

there is this argument gambling is can there is this argument gambling is can make you money there's this argument make you money there's this argument make you money there's this argument that gambling is entertainment but you

that gambling is entertainment but you that gambling is entertainment but you have to manage the expectations of the

have to manage the expectations of the have to manage the expectations of the individual and I think a lot of content individual and I think a lot of content individual and I think a lot of content writers just think oh I've got some text

writers just think oh I've got some text writers just think oh I've got some text I'll put something out there that sounds I'll put something out there that sounds I'll put something out there that sounds nice and pretty and we'll try and get nice and pretty and we'll try and get nice and pretty and we'll try and get them to knock on the door and come in

them to knock on the door and come in them to knock on the door and come in and I think that's just too simplistic

and I think that's just too simplistic and I think that's just too simplistic yeah right so yeah the mindset is really

yeah right so yeah the mindset is really yeah right so yeah the mindset is really really important to put yourself in the really important to put yourself in the really important to put yourself in the mind of a consumer be honest with you

mind of a consumer be honest with you mind of a consumer be honest with you it's just common sense John yeah a lot

it's just common sense John yeah a lot it's just common sense John yeah a lot of compliance is just common sense if

of compliance is just common sense if of compliance is just common sense if you read something that's been put in

you read something that's been put in you read something that's been put in front of you more often than not most of

front of you more often than not most of front of you more often than not most of us will know when we're being misled or

us will know when we're being misled or us will know when we're being misled or if we're being exaggerated or we'll

if we're being exaggerated or we'll if we're being exaggerated or we'll understand that sales is sales but a lot

understand that sales is sales but a lot understand that sales is sales but a lot of people don't a lot of people get of people don't a lot of people get of people don't a lot of people get taken in or they're in you don't know

taken in or they're in you don't know taken in or they're in you don't know their financial position or their their financial position or their their financial position or their situation at home you don't know if situation at home you don't know if situation at home you don't know if they're looking for escapism whether they're looking for escapism whether they're looking for escapism whether they need money you don't know if they need money you don't know if they need money you don't know if they're in debth you don't know what

they're in debth you don't know what they're in debth you don't know what pressures are on them basically so

pressures are on them basically so pressures are on them basically so everyone's going to read that bit of everyone's going to read that bit of everyone's going to read that bit of text differently and and but I think you

text differently and and but I think you text differently and and but I think you touched on it in a really interesting

touched on it in a really interesting touched on it in a really interesting way that content writing is actually one

way that content writing is actually one way that content writing is actually one of the core parts of the problem where

of the core parts of the problem where of the core parts of the problem where like I've been in the situation before like I've been in the situation before like I've been in the situation before with my previous affiliate sites of with my previous affiliate sites of with my previous affiliate sites of hiring content writers I train them but

hiring content writers I train them but hiring content writers I train them but every time I look over the stuff I'm every time I look over the stuff I'm every time I look over the stuff I'm like no don't write that and it's like

like no don't write that and it's like like no don't write that and it's like you said they they talk about it from a

you said they they talk about it from a you said they they talk about it from a sales point of view and they have a sales point of view and they have a sales point of view and they have a pressure to produce content at the best

pressure to produce content at the best pressure to produce content at the best quality and as fast as possible for a

quality and as fast as possible for a quality and as fast as possible for a set rate I mean they're all getting paid

set rate I mean they're all getting paid set rate I mean they're all getting paid quite often uh by the word so um yeah I

quite often uh by the word so um yeah I quite often uh by the word so um yeah I think it's it's not easy to train good

think it's it's not easy to train good think it's it's not easy to train good writers and I think that's what maybe

writers and I think that's what maybe writers and I think that's what maybe separates the the the best Affiliates of

separates the the the best Affiliates of separates the the the best Affiliates of like they put a lot of effort into it

like they put a lot of effort into it like they put a lot of effort into it and there maybe indirectly being just

and there maybe indirectly being just and there maybe indirectly being just more compliant by focusing on this

more compliant by focusing on this more compliant by focusing on this quality aspect and of course that leads

quality aspect and of course that leads quality aspect and of course that leads just nicely into a conversation about

just nicely into a conversation about just nicely into a conversation about AI so absolutely you know we know how

AI so absolutely you know we know how AI so absolutely you know we know how that's being viewed at the moment I mean that's being viewed at the moment I mean that's being viewed at the moment I mean it's a fast changing environment but a

it's a fast changing environment but a it's a fast changing environment but a lot of people are thinking about AI as

lot of people are thinking about AI as lot of people are thinking about AI as as a Content writer really which you

as a Content writer really which you as a Content writer really which you know is well and good um my my personal

know is well and good um my my personal know is well and good um my my personal opinion is you know if you're trying to

opinion is you know if you're trying to opinion is you know if you're trying to do it to rank in Google then so are a

do it to rank in Google then so are a do it to rank in Google then so are a thousand other people you know all

thousand other people you know all thousand other people you know all you've done is taken a thousand people

you've done is taken a thousand people you've done is taken a thousand people competing for the top 10 spots and made

competing for the top 10 spots and made competing for the top 10 spots and made all their content better so so I don't

all their content better so so I don't all their content better so so I don't believe that's a solution

believe that's a solution believe that's a solution but what's really interesting you know but what's really interesting you know but what's really interesting you know we've done some research into Ai and how

we've done some research into Ai and how we've done some research into Ai and how it potentially help or impact what we're

it potentially help or impact what we're it potentially help or impact what we're doing from a compliance perspective and

doing from a compliance perspective and doing from a compliance perspective and the one thing that's really interesting the one thing that's really interesting the one thing that's really interesting apart from the fact obviously a lot of apart from the fact obviously a lot of apart from the fact obviously a lot of it's working on older data um unless you

it's working on older data um unless you it's working on older data um unless you kind of got your own data or you you buy

kind of got your own data or you you buy kind of got your own data or you you buy more up toate more up toate more up toate packages it doesn't really fully

packages it doesn't really fully packages it doesn't really fully understand the nuances of compliance so

understand the nuances of compliance so understand the nuances of compliance so we had an example recently I can't we had an example recently I can't we had an example recently I can't remember the country it might have been remember the country it might have been remember the country it might have been Italy but I can't remember where we we

Italy but I can't remember where we we Italy but I can't remember where we we asked AI to write an article for us on

asked AI to write an article for us on asked AI to write an article for us on on um the regulatory landscape for

on um the regulatory landscape for on um the regulatory landscape for gambling in Italy and it came back with

gambling in Italy and it came back with gambling in Italy and it came back with what looked on the surface a pretty good what looked on the surface a pretty good what looked on the surface a pretty good article about bonuses and what you can

article about bonuses and what you can article about bonuses and what you can and can't do but there were actually

and can't do but there were actually and can't do but there were actually little nuances in the in I think it's it

little nuances in the in I think it's it little nuances in the in I think it's it I might have my my facts wrong here but I might have my my facts wrong here but I might have my my facts wrong here but there were little nuances in terms of

there were little nuances in terms of there were little nuances in terms of you you couldn't um you had to compare

you you couldn't um you had to compare you you couldn't um you had to compare different operators you couldn't have

different operators you couldn't have different operators you couldn't have pages about a single operator and stuff

pages about a single operator and stuff pages about a single operator and stuff and it didn't recognize that it just was

and it didn't recognize that it just was and it didn't recognize that it just was Blanket you shouldn't be talking about

Blanket you shouldn't be talking about Blanket you shouldn't be talking about this so so if you start to rely on AI

this so so if you start to rely on AI this so so if you start to rely on AI for the facts in your article to build

for the facts in your article to build for the facts in your article to build your Authority I think that's really

your Authority I think that's really your Authority I think that's really quite precarious ground especially in

quite precarious ground especially in quite precarious ground especially in regulatory environments and I think

regulatory environments and I think regulatory environments and I think what's dangerous about that is not what's dangerous about that is not what's dangerous about that is not everyone's writing about that type of everyone's writing about that type of everyone's writing about that type of content so if they're one of the few

content so if they're one of the few content so if they're one of the few that actually publish it they actually that actually publish it they actually that actually publish it they actually might get rankings and real traffic

might get rankings and real traffic might get rankings and real traffic going to those pages believing it to be

going to those pages believing it to be going to those pages believing it to be true and then of course people are true and then of course people are true and then of course people are writing their own articles from seeing

writing their own articles from seeing writing their own articles from seeing that one article and just it's a good

that one article and just it's a good that one article and just it's a good point yeah absolutely good point AI is

point yeah absolutely good point AI is point yeah absolutely good point AI is only as good as the data it can access I

only as good as the data it can access I only as good as the data it can access I I think this is this is where the

I think this is this is where the I think this is this is where the Affiliates in the future that will win

Affiliates in the future that will win Affiliates in the future that will win out will be really smart that they'll be

out will be really smart that they'll be out will be really smart that they'll be building we're going back to data building we're going back to data building we're going back to data question they'll be building their own

question they'll be building their own question they'll be building their own data sets and their own databases and

data sets and their own databases and data sets and their own databases and and their own um ways of mining data

and their own um ways of mining data and their own um ways of mining data that no one else can get access to and

that no one else can get access to and that no one else can get access to and they'll be able to control who has that

they'll be able to control who has that they'll be able to control who has that and it'll be authoritative data but

and it'll be authoritative data but and it'll be authoritative data but until you know AI it's just one of these

until you know AI it's just one of these until you know AI it's just one of these things that we're going to see a lot of things that we're going to see a lot of things that we're going to see a lot of changes over the next few years and changes over the next few years and changes over the next few years and they'll be good and they'll be bad um

they'll be good and they'll be bad um they'll be good and they'll be bad um but I think it's you people have to

but I think it's you people have to but I think it's you people have to approach you with caution okay I've got

approach you with caution okay I've got approach you with caution okay I've got a couple curveball questions and it's

a couple curveball questions and it's a couple curveball questions and it's going to tie into Ai and it's going to

going to tie into Ai and it's going to going to tie into Ai and it's going to also tie into what Affiliates have to do

also tie into what Affiliates have to do also tie into what Affiliates have to do to be successful um do you think AI is

to be successful um do you think AI is to be successful um do you think AI is going to make it such that the big

going to make it such that the big going to make it such that the big Affiliates like let's just use bleer as

Affiliates like let's just use bleer as Affiliates like let's just use bleer as an example that can afford to invest big

an example that can afford to invest big an example that can afford to invest big money into AI in every aspect it's like

money into AI in every aspect it's like money into AI in every aspect it's like getting the right tools hiring the right

getting the right tools hiring the right getting the right tools hiring the right people do you think this is going to people do you think this is going to people do you think this is going to help some of these affiliate companies help some of these affiliate companies help some of these affiliate companies just get stronger at the expense of

just get stronger at the expense of just get stronger at the expense of making it more difficult for the small

making it more difficult for the small making it more difficult for the small to midsize Affiliates to just like get

to midsize Affiliates to just like get to midsize Affiliates to just like get their foot in the door um yeah to a

their foot in the door um yeah to a their foot in the door um yeah to a degree um everything's cyclical so so I

degree um everything's cyclical so so I degree um everything's cyclical so so I I believe that there are always niches

I believe that there are always niches I believe that there are always niches and we go back to the whole Authority and we go back to the whole Authority and we go back to the whole Authority thing again where you can build

thing again where you can build thing again where you can build Authority in specific niches and if you

Authority in specific niches and if you Authority in specific niches and if you use data correctly anyone there's a lot

use data correctly anyone there's a lot use data correctly anyone there's a lot of data out there you don't have to be a

of data out there you don't have to be a of data out there you don't have to be a big company to go and get your hands on

big company to go and get your hands on big company to go and get your hands on API feeds and good interesting data or

API feeds and good interesting data or API feeds and good interesting data or to collect data yes some to some of it

to collect data yes some to some of it to collect data yes some to some of it cost I get that and and bigger companies

cost I get that and and bigger companies cost I get that and and bigger companies will be able to afford more but I don't

will be able to afford more but I don't will be able to afford more but I don't know I I can't answer the question

know I I can't answer the question know I I can't answer the question outright but my feeling

outright but my feeling outright but my feeling is there there'll be there could equally

is there there'll be there could equally is there there'll be there could equally be as much of a leveling of the playing

be as much of a leveling of the playing be as much of a leveling of the playing field as there could be an advantage to

field as there could be an advantage to field as there could be an advantage to the bigger operators I think it depends

the bigger operators I think it depends the bigger operators I think it depends on how smart you are how you use it what

on how smart you are how you use it what on how smart you are how you use it what data you collect and what you do with it

data you collect and what you do with it data you collect and what you do with it I don't think money is necessarily the

I don't think money is necessarily the I don't think money is necessarily the be all and end all of making AI work

be all and end all of making AI work be all and end all of making AI work effectively for you and I think your

effectively for you and I think your effectively for you and I think your answer is very similar to some seos that

answer is very similar to some seos that answer is very similar to some seos that I've interviewed that have kind of said

I've interviewed that have kind of said I've interviewed that have kind of said more or less the same thing where they

more or less the same thing where they more or less the same thing where they believe Authority is your gateway

believe Authority is your gateway believe Authority is your gateway towards not only just getting your foot

towards not only just getting your foot towards not only just getting your foot in the door but actually you know making

in the door but actually you know making in the door but actually you know making carving your own space Authority comes

carving your own space Authority comes carving your own space Authority comes from data a lot of the time as well so

from data a lot of the time as well so from data a lot of the time as well so you know you what you really want is

you know you what you really want is you know you what you really want is data that's yours and no one else has

data that's yours and no one else has data that's yours and no one else has that's what you really want and it's not

that's what you really want and it's not that's what you really want and it's not impossible to get you just need to spend

impossible to get you just need to spend impossible to get you just need to spend some time doing it you know when I built some time doing it you know when I built some time doing it you know when I built slots comparer you know I had a couple

slots comparer you know I had a couple slots comparer you know I had a couple of guys helping me and we went out and of guys helping me and we went out and of guys helping me and we went out and we analyzed all the games and we spent

we analyzed all the games and we spent we analyzed all the games and we spent months and months and months collecting months and months and months collecting months and months and months collecting data that no one else had but it's not

data that no one else had but it's not data that no one else had but it's not difficult to get it's just time you know difficult to get it's just time you know difficult to get it's just time you know it's just understanding it getting a it's just understanding it getting a it's just understanding it getting a couple of people involved that knew what

couple of people involved that knew what couple of people involved that knew what slot games meant how they how they

slot games meant how they how they slot games meant how they how they worked and how the psychology worked we

worked and how the psychology worked we worked and how the psychology worked we pulled that data together is very pulled that data together is very pulled that data together is very successful it cost me very very little

successful it cost me very very little successful it cost me very very little to employ them to do that uh next

to employ them to do that uh next to employ them to do that uh next question it's kind of it almost ties

question it's kind of it almost ties question it's kind of it almost ties into the previous one of like you know into the previous one of like you know into the previous one of like you know will the Affiliates get bigger and

will the Affiliates get bigger and will the Affiliates get bigger and what's the competitive Advantage because

what's the competitive Advantage because what's the competitive Advantage because it's like Affiliates need to be good at it's like Affiliates need to be good at it's like Affiliates need to be good at two things like getting the traffic and

two things like getting the traffic and two things like getting the traffic and usually we're going to just say it's SEO

usually we're going to just say it's SEO usually we're going to just say it's SEO even though it's now video and a whole

even though it's now video and a whole even though it's now video and a whole bunch of other things and then they got bunch of other things and then they got bunch of other things and then they got to be sometimes good at the tech now you

to be sometimes good at the tech now you to be sometimes good at the tech now you can launch your site on WordPress and

can launch your site on WordPress and can launch your site on WordPress and not like just be oblivious to the world

not like just be oblivious to the world not like just be oblivious to the world but then as you get deeper it's like all

but then as you get deeper it's like all but then as you get deeper it's like all these data points like you yourself

these data points like you yourself these data points like you yourself built a a custom CMS I think and you

built a a custom CMS I think and you built a a custom CMS I think and you used like a lot of data points so that used like a lot of data points so that used like a lot of data points so that data point uh became published and you

data point uh became published and you data point uh became published and you know you're able to Pivot like the know you're able to Pivot like the know you're able to Pivot like the categories so do you think like the the

categories so do you think like the the categories so do you think like the the the data driven part of it uh is what

the data driven part of it uh is what the data driven part of it uh is what helps Affiliates become more compliant

helps Affiliates become more compliant helps Affiliates become more compliant which also has a secondary bonus of just

which also has a secondary bonus of just which also has a secondary bonus of just making them convert better and having a

making them convert better and having a making them convert better and having a USP yeah quite possibly I can see that

USP yeah quite possibly I can see that USP yeah quite possibly I can see that when you start dealing with opinions

when you start dealing with opinions when you start dealing with opinions versus data so you can have websites

versus data so you can have websites versus data so you can have websites that have opinion and we've talked about that have opinion and we've talked about that have opinion and we've talked about Authority and how that opinion can build

Authority and how that opinion can build Authority and how that opinion can build Authority and we've talked about

Authority and we've talked about Authority and we've talked about websites that can use data and the two

websites that can use data and the two websites that can use data and the two can come together of course you can have can come together of course you can have can come together of course you can have both so it's it's probably easier to

both so it's it's probably easier to both so it's it's probably easier to fall over on the compliance side when

fall over on the compliance side when fall over on the compliance side when you're talking about opinion especially

you're talking about opinion especially you're talking about opinion especially if you've got the sales mindset going um

if you've got the sales mindset going um if you've got the sales mindset going um than it is on the data side where than it is on the data side where than it is on the data side where ultimately you know you're regurgitating

ultimately you know you're regurgitating ultimately you know you're regurgitating data but I think

data but I think data but I think what Affiliates can do if they go more

what Affiliates can do if they go more what Affiliates can do if they go more with the data route is they can become

with the data route is they can become with the data route is they can become data providers so it needn't necessarily

data providers so it needn't necessarily data providers so it needn't necessarily be be be about selling to the consumer directly

about selling to the consumer directly about selling to the consumer directly it might be about creating data feeds or

it might be about creating data feeds or it might be about creating data feeds or creating services and Provisions that

creating services and Provisions that creating services and Provisions that operators or other Affiliates can use

operators or other Affiliates can use operators or other Affiliates can use you know very much like you've done John

you know very much like you've done John you know very much like you've done John actually um you know create something

actually um you know create something actually um you know create something that that can potentially be used by

that that can potentially be used by that that can potentially be used by other people so so I think the smart

other people so so I think the smart other people so so I think the smart Affiliates will recognize that you can

Affiliates will recognize that you can Affiliates will recognize that you can probably do both but but ultimately you

probably do both but but ultimately you probably do both but but ultimately you need to diversify and that's always been

need to diversify and that's always been need to diversify and that's always been the case to be fair you know you don't the case to be fair you know you don't the case to be fair you know you don't want to you don't want all your eggs in want to you don't want all your eggs in want to you don't want all your eggs in one one one basket yeah uh going further into social

basket yeah uh going further into social basket yeah uh going further into social media um are you seeing uh more

media um are you seeing uh more media um are you seeing uh more Affiliates get into the space where is

Affiliates get into the space where is Affiliates get into the space where is becoming like more of a prominent becoming like more of a prominent becoming like more of a prominent marketing channel that does Drive

marketing channel that does Drive marketing channel that does Drive players to operators uh

players to operators uh players to operators uh and yeah just a like I think we've seen

and yeah just a like I think we've seen and yeah just a like I think we've seen in the past 10 years where that was

in the past 10 years where that was in the past 10 years where that was maybe the first wave of compliance where

maybe the first wave of compliance where maybe the first wave of compliance where companies said no we don't want you

companies said no we don't want you companies said no we don't want you posting these bonuses on social media

posting these bonuses on social media posting these bonuses on social media because when the bonus expires it's a

because when the bonus expires it's a because when the bonus expires it's a the amount of work you have to go back the amount of work you have to go back the amount of work you have to go back in time to delete that like you're not

in time to delete that like you're not in time to delete that like you're not able to maintain a proper database in

able to maintain a proper database in able to maintain a proper database in social media

social media social media environment I think social media and

environment I think social media and environment I think social media and gambling are a bad mix if I'm honest I

gambling are a bad mix if I'm honest I gambling are a bad mix if I'm honest I think it's um the regulatory environment

think it's um the regulatory environment think it's um the regulatory environment that surrounds gambling and also from an

that surrounds gambling and also from an that surrounds gambling and also from an ethical point of view you know when ethical point of view you know when ethical point of view you know when you're when you're ranking in Google

you're when you're ranking in Google you're when you're ranking in Google you're ranking your content for people

you're ranking your content for people you're ranking your content for people that are actively looking for for

that are actively looking for for that are actively looking for for gambling content they're looking for gambling content they're looking for gambling content they're looking for opportunities to go play or whatever

opportunities to go play or whatever opportunities to go play or whatever social media is not like that a lot of

social media is not like that a lot of social media is not like that a lot of the time you're putting your it can be a

the time you're putting your it can be a the time you're putting your it can be a little bit like that but you're putting little bit like that but you're putting little bit like that but you're putting a lot of your content in front of people a lot of your content in front of people a lot of your content in front of people that don't really understand gambling

that don't really understand gambling that don't really understand gambling they haven't really gone actively they haven't really gone actively they haven't really gone actively looking for it they don't necessarily

looking for it they don't necessarily looking for it they don't necessarily understand the risks attached to it they

understand the risks attached to it they understand the risks attached to it they might think it's a bit of fun for

might think it's a bit of fun for might think it's a bit of fun for whatever reason so I've never been a

whatever reason so I've never been a whatever reason so I've never been a great fan of voting on social media for

great fan of voting on social media for great fan of voting on social media for one thing so maybe I got a bit of bias

one thing so maybe I got a bit of bias one thing so maybe I got a bit of bias there secondly from a compliance

there secondly from a compliance there secondly from a compliance perspective what you just said is very

perspective what you just said is very perspective what you just said is very true so so these these platforms are

true so so these these platforms are true so so these these platforms are very much W Gardens they don't really

very much W Gardens they don't really very much W Gardens they don't really care whether you're a compliance company

care whether you're a compliance company care whether you're a compliance company whether you're a marketing company they

whether you're a marketing company they whether you're a marketing company they just don't really like showing you what

just don't really like showing you what just don't really like showing you what they've got and how they do it and

they've got and how they do it and they've got and how they do it and obviously they've been talks between obviously they've been talks between obviously they've been talks between governments and these Platforms in terms

governments and these Platforms in terms governments and these Platforms in terms of how they put controls in place but

of how they put controls in place but of how they put controls in place but you know we all know the response to you know we all know the response to you know we all know the response to that's been relatively muted so so I

that's been relatively muted so so I that's been relatively muted so so I don't hold out too much hope that don't hold out too much hope that don't hold out too much hope that they're going to suddenly get all

they're going to suddenly get all they're going to suddenly get all ethical and worried about the compliance

ethical and worried about the compliance ethical and worried about the compliance side so so when I'm talking to operators

side so so when I'm talking to operators side so so when I'm talking to operators or when we're talking to operators or when we're talking to operators or when we're talking to operators generally speaking it's a difficult generally speaking it's a difficult generally speaking it's a difficult conversation within the gambling sphere

conversation within the gambling sphere conversation within the gambling sphere it becomes easier when you when get it becomes easier when you when get it becomes easier when you when get outside of gambling um into the

outside of gambling um into the outside of gambling um into the influencer sphere and slightly less

influencer sphere and slightly less influencer sphere and slightly less regulated areas where you're kind of

regulated areas where you're kind of regulated areas where you're kind of operating more under advertising

operating more under advertising operating more under advertising standards rather than strict you know

standards rather than strict you know standards rather than strict you know regulatory um rules that we have in

regulatory um rules that we have in regulatory um rules that we have in gambling um but my my if I was starting

gambling um but my my if I was starting gambling um but my my if I was starting up an operator now if going to that side

up an operator now if going to that side up an operator now if going to that side of things or an affiliate again I

of things or an affiliate again I of things or an affiliate again I wouldn't be going anywhere near social

wouldn't be going anywhere near social wouldn't be going anywhere near social media video yeah I think video's got

media video yeah I think video's got media video yeah I think video's got some some mileage in it but again if

some some mileage in it but again if some some mileage in it but again if you're using the main platforms from a

you're using the main platforms from a you're using the main platforms from a compliance perspective they're dangerous

compliance perspective they're dangerous compliance perspective they're dangerous areas you know it doesn't take much for

areas you know it doesn't take much for areas you know it doesn't take much for someone to say something in a video someone to say something in a video someone to say something in a video without really thinking about it that without really thinking about it that without really thinking about it that can bring a brand into disrepute or can

can bring a brand into disrepute or can can bring a brand into disrepute or can actually threaten the viability of an

actually threaten the viability of an actually threaten the viability of an affiliate program you know you've seen affiliate program you know you've seen affiliate program you know you've seen all these um the streamers for example

all these um the streamers for example all these um the streamers for example they can get a little bit OV excited

they can get a little bit OV excited they can get a little bit OV excited some of them are very great fun they do

some of them are very great fun they do some of them are very great fun they do a fantastic job but every now and again

a fantastic job but every now and again a fantastic job but every now and again it wouldn't surprise me if you know a

it wouldn't surprise me if you know a it wouldn't surprise me if you know a comment came out that you think oh hang comment came out that you think oh hang comment came out that you think oh hang on a set you shouldn't really be saying

on a set you shouldn't really be saying on a set you shouldn't really be saying that and it's very difficult to police

that and it's very difficult to police that and it's very difficult to police even for a company like us it's very

even for a company like us it's very even for a company like us it's very difficult to police Le um th those

difficult to police Le um th those difficult to police Le um th those communities I think that's uh probably

communities I think that's uh probably communities I think that's uh probably the the core reason why bar stool was

the the core reason why bar stool was the the core reason why bar stool was basically bought out you know it's like

basically bought out you know it's like basically bought out you know it's like Baro pen gaming they like you can't say

Baro pen gaming they like you can't say Baro pen gaming they like you can't say these these these things no that's it you know it's um as

things no that's it you know it's um as things no that's it you know it's um as an affiliate you join an affiliate

an affiliate you join an affiliate an affiliate you join an affiliate program and you know obviously once

program and you know obviously once program and you know obviously once you're in it you want to make it needs

you're in it you want to make it needs you're in it you want to make it needs to work for you you don't want a threat

to work for you you don't want a threat to work for you you don't want a threat of being cutle and I think I think if

of being cutle and I think I think if of being cutle and I think I think if you've got other Affiliates out there you've got other Affiliates out there you've got other Affiliates out there doing the social and the streaming thing

doing the social and the streaming thing doing the social and the streaming thing then you're in more risk of having a

then you're in more risk of having a then you're in more risk of having a problem come from that program when when

problem come from that program when when problem come from that program when when those risks rebound onto them so that's

those risks rebound onto them so that's those risks rebound onto them so that's how I always looked at it I don't want how I always looked at it I don't want how I always looked at it I don't want to be in a port of Affiliates that are

to be in a port of Affiliates that are to be in a port of Affiliates that are doing dodgy or difficult awkward stuff

doing dodgy or difficult awkward stuff doing dodgy or difficult awkward stuff in the I know for like things like

in the I know for like things like in the I know for like things like YouTube and I'm assuming twitch has it

YouTube and I'm assuming twitch has it YouTube and I'm assuming twitch has it although I haven't dug further into it

although I haven't dug further into it although I haven't dug further into it where you're able to create a profile

where you're able to create a profile where you're able to create a profile and as you publish content you're able

and as you publish content you're able and as you publish content you're able to say is this suitable for adults so

to say is this suitable for adults so to say is this suitable for adults so you're able to do uh a couple of these

you're able to do uh a couple of these you're able to do uh a couple of these filters and obviously with with us being

filters and obviously with with us being filters and obviously with with us being Affiliates in the past where we've been

Affiliates in the past where we've been Affiliates in the past where we've been able to say well there's targeting like

able to say well there's targeting like able to say well there's targeting like block certain countries do you think

block certain countries do you think block certain countries do you think social media will at some point have

social media will at some point have social media will at some point have these tools where my profile can

these tools where my profile can these tools where my profile can actually say you know what I don't want

actually say you know what I don't want actually say you know what I don't want users able to view my content from these

users able to view my content from these users able to view my content from these countries and I can actually even take

countries and I can actually even take countries and I can actually even take it a step further and say some of these

it a step further and say some of these it a step further and say some of these posts are like in order for them to be

posts are like in order for them to be posts are like in order for them to be compliant because I'm talking about compliant because I'm talking about compliant because I'm talking about let's say personal finance advice I have

let's say personal finance advice I have let's say personal finance advice I have to add this little addendum that says

to add this little addendum that says to add this little addendum that says this is not personal uh this is not

this is not personal uh this is not this is not personal uh this is not Financial advice you think these tools

Financial advice you think these tools Financial advice you think these tools actually might start appearing as much

actually might start appearing as much actually might start appearing as much as I think their basic is basic as hell

as I think their basic is basic as hell as I think their basic is basic as hell to integr

to integr to integr I think they will but I think it'll come

I think they will but I think it'll come I think they will but I think it'll come from outside pressure rather than inside

from outside pressure rather than inside from outside pressure rather than inside decision making you know if you get a

decision making you know if you get a decision making you know if you get a regat that turns around to the operators

regat that turns around to the operators regat that turns around to the operators in the gambling space and says right

in the gambling space and says right in the gambling space and says right okay we don't want any of your okay we don't want any of your okay we don't want any of your Affiliates advertising on social media

Affiliates advertising on social media Affiliates advertising on social media channels until that's in place a lot of

channels until that's in place a lot of channels until that's in place a lot of the big brands are going to pull out of the big brands are going to pull out of the big brands are going to pull out of their advertising from Facebook and and

their advertising from Facebook and and their advertising from Facebook and and Co and that might make them think twice

Co and that might make them think twice Co and that might make them think twice about it it might take you know quite a

about it it might take you know quite a about it it might take you know quite a c change to do that I don't hold out a

c change to do that I don't hold out a c change to do that I don't hold out a lot of hope that it'll be anytime soon

lot of hope that it'll be anytime soon lot of hope that it'll be anytime soon um but it'd be quite a nice thing to um but it'd be quite a nice thing to um but it'd be quite a nice thing to have to be fair I think uh I think it

have to be fair I think uh I think it have to be fair I think uh I think it just needs to be kind of pushed on them

just needs to be kind of pushed on them just needs to be kind of pushed on them but I think you're right I think it's but I think you're right I think it's but I think you're right I think it's going to happen more from a a government

going to happen more from a a government going to happen more from a a government perspective rather than an industry kind

perspective rather than an industry kind perspective rather than an industry kind of like hey guys uh here's a free easy

of like hey guys uh here's a free easy of like hey guys uh here's a free easy thing to implement and once you do

thing to implement and once you do thing to implement and once you do you're going to have uh the ability to

you're going to have uh the ability to you're going to have uh the ability to you know just get more traffic monetize

you know just get more traffic monetize you know just get more traffic monetize everything yeah yeah uh what are some

everything yeah yeah uh what are some everything yeah yeah uh what are some changes you'd like to see in affiliate

changes you'd like to see in affiliate changes you'd like to see in affiliate marketing uh for both Affiliates and or

marketing uh for both Affiliates and or marketing uh for both Affiliates and or Publishers as well as operators and

Publishers as well as operators and Publishers as well as operators and affiliate

affiliate affiliate programs I mean the one thing I've seen

programs I mean the one thing I've seen programs I mean the one thing I've seen over the past three or four years while over the past three or four years while over the past three or four years while while sort of working in compliance is

while sort of working in compliance is while sort of working in compliance is quite surprised at the number of big

quite surprised at the number of big quite surprised at the number of big operators that that Cho down their

operators that that Cho down their operators that that Cho down their affiliate programs and cut off

affiliate programs and cut off affiliate programs and cut off Affiliates because of the the compliance

Affiliates because of the the compliance Affiliates because of the the compliance risks or perhaps other reasons they're

risks or perhaps other reasons they're risks or perhaps other reasons they're not being necessarily that transparent

not being necessarily that transparent not being necessarily that transparent about I think that's bad news for

about I think that's bad news for about I think that's bad news for everyone because I think Affiliates

everyone because I think Affiliates everyone because I think Affiliates generally speaking don't just say oh

generally speaking don't just say oh generally speaking don't just say oh I've been cut off I'm going to go away I've been cut off I'm going to go away I've been cut off I'm going to go away they think right okay I'm going to go to they think right okay I'm going to go to they think right okay I'm going to go to someone that wants me and when you're in

someone that wants me and when you're in someone that wants me and when you're in a regulated environment there are plenty

a regulated environment there are plenty a regulated environment there are plenty of of black market and gray Market

of of black market and gray Market of of black market and gray Market operators that want Affiliates and a lot

operators that want Affiliates and a lot operators that want Affiliates and a lot of those operators are actually very of those operators are actually very of those operators are actually very good you know I in the past before

good you know I in the past before good you know I in the past before components was a thing I've worked and

components was a thing I've worked and components was a thing I've worked and played at a number of different um

played at a number of different um played at a number of different um operators that now would be regulated

operators that now would be regulated operators that now would be regulated and some would be unregulated and I

and some would be unregulated and I and some would be unregulated and I could yeah I could easily list a bunch

could yeah I could easily list a bunch could yeah I could easily list a bunch of what you call Gray Market operators

of what you call Gray Market operators of what you call Gray Market operators that are fantastic experiences for

that are fantastic experiences for that are fantastic experiences for players so it's not a bad thing for the

players so it's not a bad thing for the players so it's not a bad thing for the player perspective necessarily other player perspective necessarily other player perspective necessarily other than the fact obviously they don't have than the fact obviously they don't have than the fact obviously they don't have the the the um the uh regulatory sort of uh net to

um the uh regulatory sort of uh net to um the uh regulatory sort of uh net to sort of support them when when there's a

sort of support them when when there's a sort of support them when when there's a problem but I think if big brands are

problem but I think if big brands are problem but I think if big brands are cutting off Affiliates you're going to cutting off Affiliates you're going to cutting off Affiliates you're going to send more of those the dark dark side

send more of those the dark dark side send more of those the dark dark side not term I use but it's dark side I've

not term I use but it's dark side I've not term I use but it's dark side I've seen the darker side and um the more

seen the darker side and um the more seen the darker side and um the more Affiliates that do that the more there's Affiliates that do that the more there's Affiliates that do that the more there's going to be of that stuff in in Google

going to be of that stuff in in Google going to be of that stuff in in Google and you know the the bigger the problem

and you know the the bigger the problem and you know the the bigger the problem the regulated Brands make for themselves

the regulated Brands make for themselves the regulated Brands make for themselves so I'd much rather see them work with

so I'd much rather see them work with so I'd much rather see them work with Affiliates and think of them as partners

Affiliates and think of them as partners Affiliates and think of them as partners rather than just a means to an end and

rather than just a means to an end and rather than just a means to an end and actually nurture the ones that aren't actually nurture the ones that aren't actually nurture the ones that aren't doing it right and help them to thrive

doing it right and help them to thrive doing it right and help them to thrive and help them to understand what

and help them to understand what and help them to understand what compliance is what it means and why they

compliance is what it means and why they compliance is what it means and why they should be doing it right there'll always should be doing it right there'll always should be doing it right there'll always be the old one you can't control I get

be the old one you can't control I get be the old one you can't control I get that but ultimately you need the

that but ultimately you need the that but ultimately you need the majority to be working with you majority to be working with you majority to be working with you otherwise the majority are going to be otherwise the majority are going to be otherwise the majority are going to be working with people you don't want them working with people you don't want them working with people you don't want them working with that's uh fascinating I

working with that's uh fascinating I working with that's uh fascinating I didn't even look at it from that point didn't even look at it from that point didn't even look at it from that point of view like I did have a mindset of

of view like I did have a mindset of of view like I did have a mindset of obviously seeing that you know when

obviously seeing that you know when obviously seeing that you know when things are not favorable where you got

things are not favorable where you got things are not favorable where you got specific markets I don't want to name

specific markets I don't want to name specific markets I don't want to name which markets but when they impose like

which markets but when they impose like which markets but when they impose like really strict um uh you know gaming laws

really strict um uh you know gaming laws really strict um uh you know gaming laws that kind of hurt maybe not hurt players

that kind of hurt maybe not hurt players that kind of hurt maybe not hurt players but encourage them to basically jump the

but encourage them to basically jump the but encourage them to basically jump the fence it's encouraging Affiliates to

fence it's encouraging Affiliates to fence it's encouraging Affiliates to jump the fence and I think what you've

jump the fence and I think what you've jump the fence and I think what you've highlighted is uh is definitely a

highlighted is uh is definitely a highlighted is uh is definitely a reality it's if you're using all this

reality it's if you're using all this reality it's if you're using all this compliance to kind of you know chip away

compliance to kind of you know chip away compliance to kind of you know chip away at your Affiliates and you end up with

at your Affiliates and you end up with at your Affiliates and you end up with like less operators to work with

like less operators to work with like less operators to work with especially in very specific markets um

especially in very specific markets um especially in very specific markets um you get Affiliates that think why do I

you get Affiliates that think why do I you get Affiliates that think why do I want to do this and why not have two

want to do this and why not have two want to do this and why not have two sites and one's the dark market and the

sites and one's the dark market and the sites and one's the dark market and the other one other one other one you know the legal markets and even with

you know the legal markets and even with you know the legal markets and even with new Affiliates that I talk to that want new Affiliates that I talk to that want new Affiliates that I talk to that want to get started um it's really difficult

to get started um it's really difficult to get started um it's really difficult for me even saying you want to go this

for me even saying you want to go this for me even saying you want to go this route because I mean if you look at the route because I mean if you look at the route because I mean if you look at the US market all right you kind of need

US market all right you kind of need US market all right you kind of need like a lot of money to pay for licensing

like a lot of money to pay for licensing like a lot of money to pay for licensing and you know what does it look like you

and you know what does it look like you and you know what does it look like you know I think the the licensing model know I think the the licensing model know I think the the licensing model looks interesting but I think I think

looks interesting but I think I think looks interesting but I think I think we're all just kind of encouraging we're all just kind of encouraging we're all just kind of encouraging people to to pick a path that the whole

people to to pick a path that the whole people to to pick a path that the whole industry saying we don't even want to

industry saying we don't even want to industry saying we don't even want to Happ yeah no I totally agree yeah that

Happ yeah no I totally agree yeah that Happ yeah no I totally agree yeah that and like I said there are good operator and like I said there are good operator and like I said there are good operator ators out there that wouldn't ators out there that wouldn't ators out there that wouldn't necessarily be regulated as well so as necessarily be regulated as well so as necessarily be regulated as well so as long as the Affiliates are doing their long as the Affiliates are doing their long as the Affiliates are doing their due diligence and they're understanding

due diligence and they're understanding due diligence and they're understanding that they're working with with operators

that they're working with with operators that they're working with with operators that are good for consumers it won't that are good for consumers it won't that are good for consumers it won't necessarily have a massive massive necessarily have a massive massive necessarily have a massive massive impact on the consumer but it will have

impact on the consumer but it will have impact on the consumer but it will have a massive impact on the regulated um

a massive impact on the regulated um a massive impact on the regulated um economy within economy within economy within gambling I I think also be quite Hest to

gambling I I think also be quite Hest to gambling I I think also be quite Hest to have a some sort of body um that the

have a some sort of body um that the have a some sort of body um that the operators kind of could report into and

operators kind of could report into and operators kind of could report into and and help Affiliates understand

and help Affiliates understand and help Affiliates understand compliance a bit better because there's

compliance a bit better because there's compliance a bit better because there's still there's still confusion out there

still there's still confusion out there still there's still confusion out there as so you know from an affiliate as so you know from an affiliate as so you know from an affiliate perspective as to what they should be perspective as to what they should be perspective as to what they should be doing you know every month we're finding

doing you know every month we're finding doing you know every month we're finding stuff and Reporting it to programs and stuff and Reporting it to programs and stuff and Reporting it to programs and we try to encourage those programs to

we try to encourage those programs to we try to encourage those programs to work with the affiliate to get it fixed

work with the affiliate to get it fixed work with the affiliate to get it fixed and to help them educate and understand

and to help them educate and understand and to help them educate and understand it we don't want just cutting off the

it we don't want just cutting off the it we don't want just cutting off the affiliate the ones that do it repeatedly

affiliate the ones that do it repeatedly affiliate the ones that do it repeatedly fair enough make a decision on that but

fair enough make a decision on that but fair enough make a decision on that but ultimately there needs to be someone out

ultimately there needs to be someone out ultimately there needs to be someone out there that can teach

there that can teach there that can teach Affiliates how to do compliance

Affiliates how to do compliance Affiliates how to do compliance effectively and and have a common set of

effectively and and have a common set of effectively and and have a common set of rules rather than just everyone having

rules rather than just everyone having rules rather than just everyone having their different ideas about what it their different ideas about what it their different ideas about what it means uh for fully agree in the sense

means uh for fully agree in the sense means uh for fully agree in the sense that I mean like we've got 2,000

that I mean like we've got 2,000 that I mean like we've got 2,000 accounts for testing and the compliance

accounts for testing and the compliance accounts for testing and the compliance like we still going to be compliant even like we still going to be compliant even like we still going to be compliant even though we're not sending traffic but uh

though we're not sending traffic but uh though we're not sending traffic but uh I just find that the the message is I just find that the the message is I just find that the the message is coming from operators is not consistent

coming from operators is not consistent coming from operators is not consistent it's uh they're asking for certain

it's uh they're asking for certain it's uh they're asking for certain things and it's like okay are like

things and it's like okay are like things and it's like okay are like what's the reason behind it like you what's the reason behind it like you what's the reason behind it like you know notorized passport and things like

know notorized passport and things like know notorized passport and things like that um and then sometimes the

that um and then sometimes the that um and then sometimes the compliance requests they they they try

compliance requests they they they try compliance requests they they they try to reference uh the gaming laws but I'm

to reference uh the gaming laws but I'm to reference uh the gaming laws but I'm like where in where in the law does it

like where in where in the law does it like where in where in the law does it state that this is the compliant part

state that this is the compliant part state that this is the compliant part it's almost like operators sometimes

it's almost like operators sometimes it's almost like operators sometimes pick and choose what they want to be

pick and choose what they want to be pick and choose what they want to be compliant or maybe sometimes to leverage

compliant or maybe sometimes to leverage compliant or maybe sometimes to leverage the compliance to get something else out

the compliance to get something else out the compliance to get something else out of before they don't necessarily fully

of before they don't necessarily fully of before they don't necessarily fully understand it and and to be fair you understand it and and to be fair you understand it and and to be fair you know a lot of the regulatory bodies know a lot of the regulatory bodies know a lot of the regulatory bodies issue guidelines rather than hard and

issue guidelines rather than hard and issue guidelines rather than hard and fast rules so there is an element of

fast rules so there is an element of fast rules so there is an element of interpretation that has to go into

interpretation that has to go into interpretation that has to go into compliance But ultimately if you had a

compliance But ultimately if you had a compliance But ultimately if you had a central source that could unpick that

central source that could unpick that central source that could unpick that and and form a common view that people

and and form a common view that people and and form a common view that people could subscribe to so if you know you

could subscribe to so if you know you could subscribe to so if you know you get the bet 365 and the tins and the and

get the bet 365 and the tins and the and get the bet 365 and the tins and the and the you know the flutters of this world

the you know the flutters of this world the you know the flutters of this world into that sort of working group and come

into that sort of working group and come into that sort of working group and come up with a sort of common idea about what

up with a sort of common idea about what up with a sort of common idea about what they want it's going to help the

they want it's going to help the they want it's going to help the industry in those territories to

industry in those territories to industry in those territories to understand more about what's required of understand more about what's required of understand more about what's required of them and then once you get to that sort them and then once you get to that sort them and then once you get to that sort of more of a stable flux you can

of more of a stable flux you can of more of a stable flux you can probably start to build up your probably start to build up your probably start to build up your affiliate programs again in a much more

affiliate programs again in a much more affiliate programs again in a much more compliant way and and without isolating

compliant way and and without isolating compliant way and and without isolating all these Affiliates who are going to all these Affiliates who are going to all these Affiliates who are going to run off and promote the gray Market ones

run off and promote the gray Market ones run off and promote the gray Market ones because they just don't know what's because they just don't know what's because they just don't know what's going on and can't get any traffic and

going on and can't get any traffic and going on and can't get any traffic and it probably should be done this way it probably should be done this way it probably should be done this way because if we don't do it this way uh

because if we don't do it this way uh because if we don't do it this way uh more of our chat gbt is gonna basically

more of our chat gbt is gonna basically more of our chat gbt is gonna basically make those rules for us and someone's make those rules for us and someone's make those rules for us and someone's going to write that article and well

going to write that article and well going to write that article and well yeah I mean you know if there are rules yeah I mean you know if there are rules yeah I mean you know if there are rules everyone follows I don't really mind everyone follows I don't really mind everyone follows I don't really mind what they are but it just has to be a

what they are but it just has to be a what they are but it just has to be a common set of of guidelines that

common set of of guidelines that common set of of guidelines that everyone could understand and that you

everyone could understand and that you everyone could understand and that you it's one of the biggest headaches for it's one of the biggest headaches for it's one of the biggest headaches for everyone so going down this uh

everyone so going down this uh everyone so going down this uh compliance rapid hole I know you compliance rapid hole I know you compliance rapid hole I know you mentioned a few times that there's just mentioned a few times that there's just mentioned a few times that there's just a lot of interesting data behind the

a lot of interesting data behind the a lot of interesting data behind the work you do and what you you all cover

work you do and what you you all cover work you do and what you you all cover for both operators and Affiliates and I

for both operators and Affiliates and I for both operators and Affiliates and I just wanted to ask if there are any data

just wanted to ask if there are any data just wanted to ask if there are any data stories that came to light or what was

stories that came to light or what was stories that came to light or what was surprising that when you started to surprising that when you started to surprising that when you started to build right Lander that like you

build right Lander that like you build right Lander that like you obviously get to see data in both a

obviously get to see data in both a obviously get to see data in both a different way and see data that not

different way and see data that not different way and see data that not everyone um gets a chance to even look

everyone um gets a chance to even look everyone um gets a chance to even look at even though they could probably try

at even though they could probably try at even though they could probably try to build this themselves so I'm just to build this themselves so I'm just to build this themselves so I'm just wondering what kind of stories have come

wondering what kind of stories have come wondering what kind of stories have come to to to light I mean there was a very there was

light I mean there was a very there was light I mean there was a very there was quite um an amusing story from from

quite um an amusing story from from quite um an amusing story from from three years ago now uh where we it's a

three years ago now uh where we it's a three years ago now uh where we it's a commonly known um scam really um using

commonly known um scam really um using commonly known um scam really um using one of the tabula ad networks where what

one of the tabula ad networks where what one of the tabula ad networks where what we assumed was an affiliate was putting

we assumed was an affiliate was putting we assumed was an affiliate was putting out some content saying that there was a

out some content saying that there was a out some content saying that there was a a c CEO of a company you could fill in

a c CEO of a company you could fill in a c CEO of a company you could fill in the company because they used a lot of the company because they used a lot of the company because they used a lot of different ones was in trouble because

different ones was in trouble because different ones was in trouble because there was a loophole in the software there was a loophole in the software there was a loophole in the software that allowed people to win lots of money

that allowed people to win lots of money that allowed people to win lots of money and we identified that one of our

and we identified that one of our and we identified that one of our clients was um implicated in this

clients was um implicated in this clients was um implicated in this article there were links affiliate links

article there were links affiliate links article there were links affiliate links actually to this client within the actually to this client within the actually to this client within the article so we notified them um they got

article so we notified them um they got article so we notified them um they got us straight on a call uh with with a

us straight on a call uh with with a us straight on a call uh with with a marketing their marketing

marketing their marketing marketing their marketing department and what became quite quickly

department and what became quite quickly department and what became quite quickly quite quite clear quite quickly was the

quite quite clear quite quickly was the quite quite clear quite quickly was the fact that um they were trying to find

fact that um they were trying to find fact that um they were trying to find out how we'd found

out how we'd found out how we'd found it what we'd actually where we managed

it what we'd actually where we managed it what we'd actually where we managed to discover this content and it became

to discover this content and it became to discover this content and it became clear quite quickly that actually maybe clear quite quickly that actually maybe clear quite quickly that actually maybe it wasn't an affiliate doing this after

it wasn't an affiliate doing this after it wasn't an affiliate doing this after all okay it was coming from internally

all okay it was coming from internally all okay it was coming from internally so that was quite a funny interesting so that was quite a funny interesting so that was quite a funny interesting conversation but I think I think the the

conversation but I think I think the the conversation but I think I think the the one thing that um has struck me most

one thing that um has struck me most one thing that um has struck me most about compliance since becoming an

about compliance since becoming an about compliance since becoming an affiliate and going into this and and

affiliate and going into this and and affiliate and going into this and and realizing I was doing it wrong as well

realizing I was doing it wrong as well realizing I was doing it wrong as well was was not applying common sense to

was was not applying common sense to was was not applying common sense to what I was writing I wasn't looking at

what I was writing I wasn't looking at what I was writing I wasn't looking at it from a consumer point of view I was

it from a consumer point of view I was it from a consumer point of view I was thinking of it as I need to get them in

thinking of it as I need to get them in thinking of it as I need to get them in to be a player point of view a lot of my

to be a player point of view a lot of my to be a player point of view a lot of my content I look back at now and I shudder

content I look back at now and I shudder content I look back at now and I shudder well it's gone now thankfully obviously

well it's gone now thankfully obviously well it's gone now thankfully obviously because it's gone but but I wrote some

because it's gone but but I wrote some because it's gone but but I wrote some stuff that I'm you not particularly stuff that I'm you not particularly stuff that I'm you not particularly proud of because I I now think about it

proud of because I I now think about it proud of because I I now think about it differently so so a lot of what we see

differently so so a lot of what we see differently so so a lot of what we see every day it's just because people every day it's just because people every day it's just because people haven't thought it through you know yeah

haven't thought it through you know yeah haven't thought it through you know yeah easy to win money at XY Z or you know i'

easy to win money at XY Z or you know i' easy to win money at XY Z or you know i' I've I paid off my car with the money I

I've I paid off my car with the money I I've I paid off my car with the money I won on this slot you know all these

won on this slot you know all these won on this slot you know all these sorts of things it's just you know the

sorts of things it's just you know the sorts of things it's just you know the moment you say it sounds wrong but you'd

moment you say it sounds wrong but you'd moment you say it sounds wrong but you'd be amazed how much of it there is out

be amazed how much of it there is out be amazed how much of it there is out there it's quite a bit I mean I think

there it's quite a bit I mean I think there it's quite a bit I mean I think we've all seen like the car payment uh

we've all seen like the car payment uh we've all seen like the car payment uh bonus hunting articles where if you

bonus hunting articles where if you bonus hunting articles where if you follow it and uh you know there's

follow it and uh you know there's follow it and uh you know there's certain ways of actually making money certain ways of actually making money certain ways of actually making money off of bonuses you could do that but uh

off of bonuses you could do that but uh off of bonuses you could do that but uh I think it's uh even the phrase make

I think it's uh even the phrase make I think it's uh even the phrase make money is is bad you know you can make

money is is bad you know you can make money is is bad you know you can make money just the moment you say that

money just the moment you say that money just the moment you say that you're trouble so you have to think a

you're trouble so you have to think a you're trouble so you have to think a little bit about that phraseology and

little bit about that phraseology and little bit about that phraseology and how you present it but they're so

how you present it but they're so how you present it but they're so natural to say aren't they you know a

natural to say aren't they you know a natural to say aren't they you know a lot of the the phrases that we think of

lot of the the phrases that we think of lot of the the phrases that we think of just you just write without thinking

just you just write without thinking just you just write without thinking actually when you think about it are a

actually when you think about it are a actually when you think about it are a little bit misleading exaggerated or

little bit misleading exaggerated or little bit misleading exaggerated or create a false idea of what someone can

create a false idea of what someone can create a false idea of what someone can achieve I'll put my hand up and say yeah

achieve I'll put my hand up and say yeah achieve I'll put my hand up and say yeah I I don't want to even read the stuff I I I don't want to even read the stuff I I I don't want to even read the stuff I wrote 10 years ago targeting players

wrote 10 years ago targeting players wrote 10 years ago targeting players it's uh let's just not go there uh last

it's uh let's just not go there uh last it's uh let's just not go there uh last question what do you see as the future

question what do you see as the future question what do you see as the future of affiliate marketing as an of affiliate marketing as an of affiliate marketing as an intersection with business

intersection with business intersection with business intelligence I think probably you know

intelligence I think probably you know intelligence I think probably you know I'll just reiterate um a couple of

I'll just reiterate um a couple of I'll just reiterate um a couple of points that I've made before which is points that I've made before which is points that I've made before which is owning data I think if you you know if

owning data I think if you you know if owning data I think if you you know if you can own your own data uh collect

you can own your own data uh collect you can own your own data uh collect your own data then that's G to be very your own data then that's G to be very your own data then that's G to be very valuable so I think that um smart

valuable so I think that um smart valuable so I think that um smart Affiliates will be doing that I think

Affiliates will be doing that I think Affiliates will be doing that I think the the data provider thing is something

the the data provider thing is something the the data provider thing is something that's worth looking at if you're then that's worth looking at if you're then that's worth looking at if you're then collecting that data how can you use it

collecting that data how can you use it collecting that data how can you use it doesn't necessarily have to be just to doesn't necessarily have to be just to doesn't necessarily have to be just to Consumers you know there are the people

Consumers you know there are the people Consumers you know there are the people that could use that data but the that could use that data but the that could use that data but the ultimate thing is you retain control of

ultimate thing is you retain control of ultimate thing is you retain control of it um and then The Authority thing you

it um and then The Authority thing you it um and then The Authority thing you know not not everyone can necessarily

know not not everyone can necessarily know not not everyone can necessarily get the traffic in so how can you use

get the traffic in so how can you use get the traffic in so how can you use authority to get yourself a much more

authority to get yourself a much more authority to get yourself a much more perhaps a smaller a smaller share of the

perhaps a smaller a smaller share of the perhaps a smaller a smaller share of the pie but customers that are genuinely

pie but customers that are genuinely pie but customers that are genuinely interested in the fact that you're interested in the fact that you're interested in the fact that you're playing video poker and you know the playing video poker and you know the playing video poker and you know the strategy for example so I think

strategy for example so I think strategy for example so I think Authority is is something that's really Authority is is something that's really Authority is is something that's really important if you bring those three important if you bring those three important if you bring those three together then you you've got a recipe together then you you've got a recipe together then you you've got a recipe for Success going back to the the big

for Success going back to the the big for Success going back to the the big networks getting in the way of that

networks getting in the way of that networks getting in the way of that success the bigger they get the more

success the bigger they get the more success the bigger they get the more risk there is risk there is risk there is you know if you've got 2,000 websites

you know if you've got 2,000 websites you know if you've got 2,000 websites out there there's a reasonable chance

out there there's a reasonable chance out there there's a reasonable chance that one or two of those are going to that one or two of those are going to that one or two of those are going to have some stuff on there that might be

have some stuff on there that might be have some stuff on there that might be picked up and and the bioregulatory um

picked up and and the bioregulatory um picked up and and the bioregulatory um body of some sort un lead to trouble and

body of some sort un lead to trouble and body of some sort un lead to trouble and you know we know there are four or five

you know we know there are four or five you know we know there are four or five big networks in the

big networks in the big networks in the industry it is a bit of an accident

industry it is a bit of an accident industry it is a bit of an accident waiting to happen you know there could

waiting to happen you know there could waiting to happen you know there could come a time for the smaller affiliate

come a time for the smaller affiliate come a time for the smaller affiliate when actually a lot of your competition when actually a lot of your competition when actually a lot of your competition suddenly disappears because the

suddenly disappears because the suddenly disappears because the industry's industry's industry's changed that makes sense uh Ian Sims

changed that makes sense uh Ian Sims changed that makes sense uh Ian Sims thank you so much for doing this how can thank you so much for doing this how can thank you so much for doing this how can people get a hold of people get a hold of people get a hold of you um well they can always email me at

you um well they can always email me at you um well they can always email me at ian. SIMS wand.com if they feel inclined

ian. SIMS wand.com if they feel inclined ian. SIMS wand.com if they feel inclined to do so or if they want to learn more

to do so or if they want to learn more to do so or if they want to learn more about compliance stuff and how that about compliance stuff and how that about compliance stuff and how that affects them more than happy to answer affects them more than happy to answer affects them more than happy to answer the questions on that through that email the questions on that through that email the questions on that through that email address cool I'm on LinkedIn LinkedIn as

address cool I'm on LinkedIn LinkedIn as address cool I'm on LinkedIn LinkedIn as well hand off Sims on LinkedIn and then

well hand off Sims on LinkedIn and then well hand off Sims on LinkedIn and then we'll put all those that info in the

we'll put all those that info in the we'll put all those that info in the show notes including right lander.com so

show notes including right lander.com so show notes including right lander.com so obviously where you're going to get that obviously where you're going to get that obviously where you're going to get that compliance uh Ian thank you so much for

compliance uh Ian thank you so much for compliance uh Ian thank you so much for doing this no worries thanks

John thank you for tuning in to the John thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to

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