Understanding retention & player value data with Adam Rowley

I think you know going back to kind of I think you know going back to kind of businesses I've worked with you know

businesses I've worked with you know businesses I've worked with you know we've had affiliate managers where they

we've had affiliate managers where they we've had affiliate managers where they have no responsibility at all apart from

have no responsibility at all apart from have no responsibility at all apart from customers coming through the door if

customers coming through the door if customers coming through the door if those players are poor or those

those players are poor or those those players are poor or those customers are continuing to play that's

customers are continuing to play that's customers are continuing to play that's the CRM team's

the CRM team's the CRM team's fault the in in their that's all they do

fault the in in their that's all they do fault the in in their that's all they do but they have worked with businesses but they have worked with businesses but they have worked with businesses where the affiliate manager it's their

where the affiliate manager it's their where the affiliate manager it's their responsibility for the ROI so they need

responsibility for the ROI so they need responsibility for the ROI so they need to have that I think data analyst I

to have that I think data analyst I to have that I think data analyst I think for me if I was to to start a

think for me if I was to to start a think for me if I was to to start a marketing business today and and and

marketing business today and and and marketing business today and and and build a brand out then a data analyst

build a brand out then a data analyst build a brand out then a data analyst would be probably one of my first hes

would be probably one of my first hes would be probably one of my first hes alongside an affiliate manager because

alongside an affiliate manager because alongside an affiliate manager because that that is where you remove a lot of

that that is where you remove a lot of that that is where you remove a lot of the risk in in over spending and

the risk in in over spending and the risk in in over spending and overpaying for for

overpaying for for overpaying for for customers I'm John R and you're

customers I'm John R and you're customers I'm John R and you're listening to affiliate bi the business

listening to affiliate bi the business listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by stab Welcome to the affiliate bi podcast

stab Welcome to the affiliate bi podcast stab Welcome to the affiliate bi podcast today we're chatting with Adam roelly

today we're chatting with Adam roelly today we're chatting with Adam roelly who is the managing director at Raven TR

who is the managing director at Raven TR who is the managing director at Raven TR and I'm excited to talk to Adam because

and I'm excited to talk to Adam because and I'm excited to talk to Adam because he's managing an Enterprise affiliate

he's managing an Enterprise affiliate he's managing an Enterprise affiliate platform and to be very blind these are

platform and to be very blind these are platform and to be very blind these are the types of conversations that I love

the types of conversations that I love the types of conversations that I love to have on this podcast and one of the

to have on this podcast and one of the to have on this podcast and one of the reasons why we created it so I want to

reasons why we created it so I want to reasons why we created it so I want to say Adam welcome to the show thanks Joe

say Adam welcome to the show thanks Joe say Adam welcome to the show thanks Joe thanks for having us appreciate you you

thanks for having us appreciate you you thanks for having us appreciate you you get up early to uh to do these podcast

get up early to uh to do these podcast get up early to uh to do these podcast no worries always do it so first

no worries always do it so first no worries always do it so first question right off the bat I want to

question right off the bat I want to question right off the bat I want to basically pass it to you to ask what

basically pass it to you to ask what basically pass it to you to ask what does Raven track do I know the answer I

does Raven track do I know the answer I does Raven track do I know the answer I don't think a lot of people do and why

don't think a lot of people do and why don't think a lot of people do and why should operators reach out to you for

should operators reach out to you for should operators reach out to you for your affiliate program software yeah so

your affiliate program software yeah so your affiliate program software yeah so Raven track we are an igaming affiliate

Raven track we are an igaming affiliate Raven track we are an igaming affiliate Trucking platform um we have been

Trucking platform um we have been Trucking platform um we have been sculpted and created for I gaming but we

sculpted and created for I gaming but we sculpted and created for I gaming but we also are available to on board clients

also are available to on board clients also are available to on board clients across multile

across multile across multile Industries uh we've been going now since

Industries uh we've been going now since Industries uh we've been going now since around 2018 on the platform was built

around 2018 on the platform was built around 2018 on the platform was built around um kind of industry experts and

around um kind of industry experts and around um kind of industry experts and you know different areas of the industry

you know different areas of the industry you know different areas of the industry and how we wanted to work um back in

and how we wanted to work um back in and how we wanted to work um back in 2018 uh we decided to focus solely on on

2018 uh we decided to focus solely on on 2018 uh we decided to focus solely on on I gaming and not look at other

I gaming and not look at other I gaming and not look at other Industries at the time and fast forward

Industries at the time and fast forward Industries at the time and fast forward six years now we have 155 clients and we

six years now we have 155 clients and we six years now we have 155 clients and we drive around a billion clicks per month

drive around a billion clicks per month drive around a billion clicks per month um so yeah that that's where we are at

um so yeah that that's where we are at um so yeah that that's where we are at the moment and uh why should people use

the moment and uh why should people use the moment and uh why should people use us I guess that's the the big question

us I guess that's the the big question us I guess that's the the big question um so without turning into a salesperson

um so without turning into a salesperson um so without turning into a salesperson uh I'd like to think we know what we're

uh I'd like to think we know what we're uh I'd like to think we know what we're doing um as I've just mentioned you know

doing um as I've just mentioned you know doing um as I've just mentioned you know we were built by experts in each field

we were built by experts in each field we were built by experts in each field so whether that was affiliate managers

so whether that was affiliate managers so whether that was affiliate managers whether that was compliance team Finance

whether that was compliance team Finance whether that was compliance team Finance media buys content creation you know

media buys content creation you know media buys content creation you know everybody in the business has done that

everybody in the business has done that everybody in the business has done that previously in existing roles

previously in existing roles previously in existing roles so I've run a lot of affiliate marketing

so I've run a lot of affiliate marketing so I've run a lot of affiliate marketing companies I've run Brands I've been in

companies I've run Brands I've been in companies I've run Brands I've been in the affiliate I've been an affiliate

the affiliate I've been an affiliate the affiliate I've been an affiliate manager so I know what was available to

manager so I know what was available to manager so I know what was available to us throughout that period and what

us throughout that period and what us throughout that period and what wasn't and we tried to create something

wasn't and we tried to create something wasn't and we tried to create something that makes a lot of people's jobs a lot

that makes a lot of people's jobs a lot that makes a lot of people's jobs a lot easier so

easier so easier so taking bits from from competitors and

taking bits from from competitors and taking bits from from competitors and tracking platforms that I've used for

tracking platforms that I've used for tracking platforms that I've used for the last 12 years that have worked

the last 12 years that have worked the last 12 years that have worked fantastically well some things that

fantastically well some things that fantastically well some things that maybe haven't worked so well and started

maybe haven't worked so well and started maybe haven't worked so well and started to kind of build and develop on that so

to kind of build and develop on that so to kind of build and develop on that so yeah I think using that that experience

yeah I think using that that experience yeah I think using that that experience of being on both sides of the coin has

of being on both sides of the coin has of being on both sides of the coin has kind of really helped us to to kind of

kind of really helped us to to kind of kind of really helped us to to kind of build our Raven track and and kind of

build our Raven track and and kind of build our Raven track and and kind of continue on the trajectory that we're

continue on the trajectory that we're continue on the trajectory that we're going at the moment yeah I I It's

going at the moment yeah I I It's going at the moment yeah I I It's actually an interesting topic I think a actually an interesting topic I think a actually an interesting topic I think a lot of people in our space don't always

lot of people in our space don't always lot of people in our space don't always have experience being on both sides of

have experience being on both sides of have experience being on both sides of the fence as an affiliate as an

the fence as an affiliate as an the fence as an affiliate as an affiliate manager or on the operator

affiliate manager or on the operator affiliate manager or on the operator side and for me personally I think uh

side and for me personally I think uh side and for me personally I think uh when people cross over they they take

when people cross over they they take when people cross over they they take their experience with them and they have

their experience with them and they have their experience with them and they have a different and anyone that's done that

a different and anyone that's done that a different and anyone that's done that crossover they've actually just excelled

crossover they've actually just excelled crossover they've actually just excelled at their job yeah I I definitely agree

at their job yeah I I definitely agree at their job yeah I I definitely agree with that and I think you know kind of

with that and I think you know kind of with that and I think you know kind of when I first started in the industry

when I first started in the industry when I first started in the industry there were certain platforms that you

there were certain platforms that you there were certain platforms that you kind of had to use

kind of had to use kind of had to use and we were trying to move a lot

and we were trying to move a lot and we were trying to move a lot quicker potentially than what the

quicker potentially than what the quicker potentially than what the technology available was at the time so

technology available was at the time so technology available was at the time so that was from ourselves wanting to

that was from ourselves wanting to that was from ourselves wanting to understand real time data being able to

understand real time data being able to understand real time data being able to make changes optimization quicker to

make changes optimization quicker to make changes optimization quicker to even the Affiliates and the advertisers

even the Affiliates and the advertisers even the Affiliates and the advertisers wanting to see their data as well so I

wanting to see their data as well so I wanting to see their data as well so I guess instead of us continuing to get

guess instead of us continuing to get guess instead of us continuing to get frustrated with what was available we

frustrated with what was available we frustrated with what was available we started to build out our own our own

started to build out our own our own started to build out our own our own platform um and I do I do agree having

platform um and I do I do agree having platform um and I do I do agree having the experience and knowledge of both

the experience and knowledge of both the experience and knowledge of both sides definitely helps because you don't

sides definitely helps because you don't sides definitely helps because you don't focus on maybe the aspects aren't as

focus on maybe the aspects aren't as focus on maybe the aspects aren't as important as well um I know you know for

important as well um I know you know for important as well um I know you know for the fact that we we work quite heavily

the fact that we we work quite heavily the fact that we we work quite heavily with Affiliates and advertisers as well

with Affiliates and advertisers as well with Affiliates and advertisers as well as the clients because without the

as the clients because without the as the clients because without the Affiliates advertisers then the clients

Affiliates advertisers then the clients Affiliates advertisers then the clients aren't going to drive Revenue they're aren't going to drive Revenue they're aren't going to drive Revenue they're not going to be paying for an affiliate not going to be paying for an affiliate not going to be paying for an affiliate Trucking platform so I think it's really

Trucking platform so I think it's really Trucking platform so I think it's really important to understand the needs of important to understand the needs of important to understand the needs of both sides

both sides both sides particularly and then going to the next

particularly and then going to the next particularly and then going to the next question it's I had a newsletter that I

question it's I had a newsletter that I question it's I had a newsletter that I published recently and I talked about

published recently and I talked about published recently and I talked about how I think there should be a bigger

how I think there should be a bigger how I think there should be a bigger importance placed on tools that can help

importance placed on tools that can help importance placed on tools that can help operators improve their Revenue whether

operators improve their Revenue whether operators improve their Revenue whether it's it's it's optimization uh stopping Revenue leak

optimization uh stopping Revenue leak optimization uh stopping Revenue leak anything that gives them an edge and

anything that gives them an edge and anything that gives them an edge and usually the tools that they start with

usually the tools that they start with usually the tools that they start with are on the affiliate program side and so

are on the affiliate program side and so are on the affiliate program side and so in Staton we've documented over a

in Staton we've documented over a in Staton we've documented over a thousand I gaming affiliate programs

thousand I gaming affiliate programs thousand I gaming affiliate programs closed in three years we're now adding

closed in three years we're now adding closed in three years we're now adding 50 per month we're closing 30 per month

50 per month we're closing 30 per month 50 per month we're closing 30 per month it's a constant 30 per month um so what

it's a constant 30 per month um so what it's a constant 30 per month um so what would you say for the industry moving

would you say for the industry moving would you say for the industry moving forward that do you think we're focused

forward that do you think we're focused forward that do you think we're focused on too many sales like we've got a lot

on too many sales like we've got a lot on too many sales like we've got a lot of white label operators it's so easy to

of white label operators it's so easy to of white label operators it's so easy to launch the next I gaming operation um do

launch the next I gaming operation um do launch the next I gaming operation um do you think uh there should be a focus on

you think uh there should be a focus on you think uh there should be a focus on saying let's stop these brands from even

saying let's stop these brands from even saying let's stop these brands from even going out of business and the ones that

going out of business and the ones that going out of business and the ones that are kind of in the middle ground can we

are kind of in the middle ground can we are kind of in the middle ground can we make them be stronger my opinion is this

make them be stronger my opinion is this make them be stronger my opinion is this benefits Affiliates yeah yeah no

benefits Affiliates yeah yeah no benefits Affiliates yeah yeah no absolutely I think there's I think

absolutely I think there's I think absolutely I think there's I think there's a bit there's a difference right

there's a bit there's a difference right there's a bit there's a difference right between every brand you know a lot of

between every brand you know a lot of between every brand you know a lot of white label Brands um I've worked with

white label Brands um I've worked with white label Brands um I've worked with them before where make as a business you

them before where make as a business you them before where make as a business you may create five white label Brands you

may create five white label Brands you may create five white label Brands you may want a potential duration of each of

may want a potential duration of each of may want a potential duration of each of those Brands so I think when it comes to

those Brands so I think when it comes to those Brands so I think when it comes to the larger Brands and and you know I

the larger Brands and and you know I the larger Brands and and you know I think the shift has happened to

think the shift has happened to think the shift has happened to retention already and I think that is

retention already and I think that is retention already and I think that is mainly because of acquisition costs

mainly because of acquisition costs mainly because of acquisition costs rocketing that has probably happened

rocketing that has probably happened rocketing that has probably happened over the last five or six years so these

over the last five or six years so these over the last five or six years so these smaller white label brands that maybe

smaller white label brands that maybe smaller white label brands that maybe don't have the budget there to do that

don't have the budget there to do that don't have the budget there to do that they have to focus on on retention

they have to focus on on retention they have to focus on on retention because they're not able to compete with

because they're not able to compete with because they're not able to compete with the larger Brands they're not able to the larger Brands they're not able to the larger Brands they're not able to bring in the better player value so

bring in the better player value so bring in the better player value so being able to understand and focus on

being able to understand and focus on being able to understand and focus on that retention side is is incredibly

that retention side is is incredibly that retention side is is incredibly important um I don't think that was the

important um I don't think that was the important um I don't think that was the case really in the past as much I think

case really in the past as much I think case really in the past as much I think you know a lot of the brands that we you know a lot of the brands that we you know a lot of the brands that we work with it was a lot about quantity

work with it was a lot about quantity work with it was a lot about quantity over quality it was driving as much

over quality it was driving as much over quality it was driving as much players into the business as possible

players into the business as possible players into the business as possible and hoping that you were going to get a and hoping that you were going to get a and hoping that you were going to get a whale um of such

whale um of such whale um of such um it's quite interesting that you said

um it's quite interesting that you said um it's quite interesting that you said about you know 50 new programs opening

about you know 50 new programs opening about you know 50 new programs opening but 30 and closing it'd be really

but 30 and closing it'd be really but 30 and closing it'd be really interesting to kind of understand the interesting to kind of understand the interesting to kind of understand the dynamic of that and the size of those

dynamic of that and the size of those dynamic of that and the size of those programs and which ones are opening so

programs and which ones are opening so programs and which ones are opening so you know other the smaller Brands and

you know other the smaller Brands and you know other the smaller Brands and smaller programs closing but the larger

smaller programs closing but the larger smaller programs closing but the larger ones are opening or of those 30 that are

ones are opening or of those 30 that are ones are opening or of those 30 that are closing are you seeing as a pattern

closing are you seeing as a pattern closing are you seeing as a pattern where it's every kind of 12 13 14 months

where it's every kind of 12 13 14 months where it's every kind of 12 13 14 months and they're just kind of staying for

and they're just kind of staying for and they're just kind of staying for that kind of smaller period

that kind of smaller period that kind of smaller period um I guess with ourselves I mean we're

um I guess with ourselves I mean we're um I guess with ourselves I mean we're not seeing a reduction in programs

not seeing a reduction in programs not seeing a reduction in programs opening however you know to be honest we

opening however you know to be honest we opening however you know to be honest we are still kind of towards the start of

are still kind of towards the start of are still kind of towards the start of our journey so we are kind of

our journey so we are kind of our journey so we are kind of understanding the market still a lot and

understanding the market still a lot and understanding the market still a lot and kind of what we're going after and I

kind of what we're going after and I kind of what we're going after and I guess the main thing is is what are

guess the main thing is is what are guess the main thing is is what are these Brands after for an affiliate

these Brands after for an affiliate these Brands after for an affiliate program kind of go back to longevity but

program kind of go back to longevity but program kind of go back to longevity but we have Brands where they

we have Brands where they we have Brands where they will when they're speaking to us they

will when they're speaking to us they will when they're speaking to us they will only want to agree deals for six

will only want to agree deals for six will only want to agree deals for six months for nine months because they know

months for nine months because they know months for nine months because they know that they're going to only be here for a

that they're going to only be here for a that they're going to only be here for a certain period of time which is

certain period of time which is certain period of time which is absolutely fine but I think there needs

absolutely fine but I think there needs absolutely fine but I think there needs to be some understanding and to be some understanding and to be some understanding and transparency on that especially when

transparency on that especially when transparency on that especially when working with with Affiliates yeah I

working with with Affiliates yeah I working with with Affiliates yeah I think you actually touched upon think you actually touched upon think you actually touched upon something interesting so while we do

something interesting so while we do something interesting so while we do have that data of the 50 programs being

have that data of the 50 programs being have that data of the 50 programs being launched the 30 being closed I actually

launched the 30 being closed I actually launched the 30 being closed I actually do want to analyze and go what's behind

do want to analyze and go what's behind do want to analyze and go what's behind this can we can we identify any patterns

this can we can we identify any patterns this can we can we identify any patterns is it all white labels or how how many

is it all white labels or how how many is it all white labels or how how many what looks like decent sized operations

what looks like decent sized operations what looks like decent sized operations still find a way to fail um I I think

still find a way to fail um I I think still find a way to fail um I I think the you know the the details and the

the you know the the details and the the you know the the details and the data and I think if we actually dig a

data and I think if we actually dig a data and I think if we actually dig a bit deeper maybe maybe that actually

bit deeper maybe maybe that actually bit deeper maybe maybe that actually might be an interesting feedback loop might be an interesting feedback loop might be an interesting feedback loop for affiliat to say look we're not just

for affiliat to say look we're not just for affiliat to say look we're not just going to charge you the flat fee it's uh

going to charge you the flat fee it's uh going to charge you the flat fee it's uh the flat fee is going to be even higher

the flat fee is going to be even higher the flat fee is going to be even higher because you fit this quality or

because you fit this quality or because you fit this quality or characteristic and um I think you're

characteristic and um I think you're characteristic and um I think you're right it's because the costs have gone

right it's because the costs have gone right it's because the costs have gone up that it's actually changing you know

up that it's actually changing you know up that it's actually changing you know people the shift for retentions should

people the shift for retentions should people the shift for retentions should be everything yeah yeah absolutely and I

be everything yeah yeah absolutely and I be everything yeah yeah absolutely and I think there is you know particularly

think there is you know particularly think there is you know particularly with I mean they not they're not I guess

with I mean they not they're not I guess with I mean they not they're not I guess they are still Emerging Markets but they

they are still Emerging Markets but they they are still Emerging Markets but they are becoming you know kind of settled

are becoming you know kind of settled are becoming you know kind of settled now but you look at Africa South America

now but you look at Africa South America now but you look at Africa South America even North America I guess we have

even North America I guess we have even North America I guess we have clients who will reach out to us who

clients who will reach out to us who clients who will reach out to us who have been informed that they need an

have been informed that they need an have been informed that they need an affiliate program they know that Revenue

affiliate program they know that Revenue affiliate program they know that Revenue can be driven through and they know that can be driven through and they know that can be driven through and they know that it can be a profit for the business

it can be a profit for the business it can be a profit for the business perhaps that knowledge and understanding perhaps that knowledge and understanding perhaps that knowledge and understanding isn't isn't fully there so I think

isn't isn't fully there so I think isn't isn't fully there so I think something that we need to do as a something that we need to do as a something that we need to do as a business and something that we kind of

business and something that we kind of business and something that we kind of have a lot of care attention on is

have a lot of care attention on is have a lot of care attention on is actually understanding the business

actually understanding the business actually understanding the business whether they're brand new whether whether they're brand new whether whether they're brand new whether they've been going for 10 years 15 years

they've been going for 10 years 15 years they've been going for 10 years 15 years and what they want from an affiliate

and what they want from an affiliate and what they want from an affiliate program a lot of businesses and you know

program a lot of businesses and you know program a lot of businesses and you know we're the same Revenue we want to bring

we're the same Revenue we want to bring we're the same Revenue we want to bring in more clients we want to drive Revenue

in more clients we want to drive Revenue in more clients we want to drive Revenue to our business however I would rather

to our business however I would rather to our business however I would rather have a client that comes into the

have a client that comes into the have a client that comes into the business and is with us for four or five

business and is with us for four or five business and is with us for four or five years so us giving them that feedback

years so us giving them that feedback years so us giving them that feedback sharing that knowledge with them gives

sharing that knowledge with them gives sharing that knowledge with them gives us a better understanding of what's us a better understanding of what's us a better understanding of what's going to be successful for them so that

going to be successful for them so that going to be successful for them so that may be from providing a lowc cost

may be from providing a lowc cost may be from providing a lowc cost solution for them for the first three to

solution for them for the first three to solution for them for the first three to six months so they can they can test the

six months so they can they can test the six months so they can they can test the water they can see if their brand is

water they can see if their brand is water they can see if their brand is viable with

viable with viable with Affiliates and I think a large

Affiliates and I think a large Affiliates and I think a large understanding is is how quickly they can

understanding is is how quickly they can understanding is is how quickly they can expect Roi on what they're what they're

expect Roi on what they're what they're expect Roi on what they're what they're paying out and that is sometimes quite a

paying out and that is sometimes quite a paying out and that is sometimes quite a shock to some clients that are brand new

shock to some clients that are brand new shock to some clients that are brand new into the business they think if they into the business they think if they into the business they think if they spend spend spend $10,000 then month two they're going to

$10,000 then month two they're going to $10,000 then month two they're going to return that on some fortunately that's

return that on some fortunately that's return that on some fortunately that's not uh not the case might be for some

not uh not the case might be for some not uh not the case might be for some people but yeah our our job and our kind

people but yeah our our job and our kind people but yeah our our job and our kind of um something that we kind of really

of um something that we kind of really of um something that we kind of really ensure that we do is is is give as as

ensure that we do is is is give as as ensure that we do is is is give as as much facts as possible to that client

much facts as possible to that client much facts as possible to that client before they before they sign up and I

before they before they sign up and I before they before they sign up and I think you have experience in PPC and SEO

think you have experience in PPC and SEO think you have experience in PPC and SEO and I'm I'm wondering if this is part of

and I'm I'm wondering if this is part of and I'm I'm wondering if this is part of the the new ecosystem to say well do you

the the new ecosystem to say well do you the the new ecosystem to say well do you really want to have an A brand that is

really want to have an A brand that is really want to have an A brand that is 95% dependent on Affiliates where that's

95% dependent on Affiliates where that's 95% dependent on Affiliates where that's all of their revenue because Affiliates

all of their revenue because Affiliates all of their revenue because Affiliates basically have the power to say look uh

basically have the power to say look uh basically have the power to say look uh you know your three biggest Affiliates you know your three biggest Affiliates you know your three biggest Affiliates can just pull the plug on you and then

can just pull the plug on you and then can just pull the plug on you and then you're kind of suffering do you think

you're kind of suffering do you think you're kind of suffering do you think that brands should be putting that as

that brands should be putting that as that brands should be putting that as part of their marketing plan plan it's part of their marketing plan plan it's part of their marketing plan plan it's like look you shouldn't be fully riing

like look you shouldn't be fully riing like look you shouldn't be fully riing on Affiliates it's if you want to have a

on Affiliates it's if you want to have a on Affiliates it's if you want to have a healthy longevity you should put money

healthy longevity you should put money healthy longevity you should put money on PPC and understand how it works

on PPC and understand how it works on PPC and understand how it works invest in SEO because I actually believe

invest in SEO because I actually believe invest in SEO because I actually believe that the brands that do these things

that the brands that do these things that the brands that do these things tend to have better player values and

tend to have better player values and tend to have better player values and that's an extension of affiliate

that's an extension of affiliate that's an extension of affiliate marketing where when they're being seen

marketing where when they're being seen marketing where when they're being seen in SEO and being seen in PPC it has the

in SEO and being seen in PPC it has the in SEO and being seen in PPC it has the feedback loop of going you know that

feedback loop of going you know that feedback loop of going you know that next click from the affiliate click is

next click from the affiliate click is next click from the affiliate click is probably going to convert higher and probably going to convert higher and probably going to convert higher and maybe maybe have a better value no I

maybe maybe have a better value no I maybe maybe have a better value no I think you you put the nail on the head think you you put the nail on the head think you you put the nail on the head there I think you need to do a number of

there I think you need to do a number of there I think you need to do a number of different marketing Channels with PPC

different marketing Channels with PPC different marketing Channels with PPC SEO it goes hand inand with affiliate

SEO it goes hand inand with affiliate SEO it goes hand inand with affiliate marketing as well so the more content

marketing as well so the more content marketing as well so the more content and the more um eyes that are on the

and the more um eyes that are on the and the more um eyes that are on the brand is going to essentially help the

brand is going to essentially help the brand is going to essentially help the Affiliates and it's going to help the Affiliates and it's going to help the Affiliates and it's going to help the Affiliates in regards of uh ratios

Affiliates in regards of uh ratios Affiliates in regards of uh ratios registration rates click to registration

registration rates click to registration registration rates click to registration all of that is extremely important to an

all of that is extremely important to an all of that is extremely important to an affiliate and it way you can start to

affiliate and it way you can start to affiliate and it way you can start to maybe agree better deals with the maybe agree better deals with the maybe agree better deals with the affiliate because they're going to get a

affiliate because they're going to get a affiliate because they're going to get a better CPA rate because they're going to

better CPA rate because they're going to better CPA rate because they're going to bring more conversions through to them

bring more conversions through to them bring more conversions through to them um I think when it comes to affiliate

um I think when it comes to affiliate um I think when it comes to affiliate marketing I think why is so popular and

marketing I think why is so popular and marketing I think why is so popular and why it's so interesting as a first why it's so interesting as a first why it's so interesting as a first fourth call is because it's it is a very

fourth call is because it's it is a very fourth call is because it's it is a very easy way to start driving your brand and

easy way to start driving your brand and easy way to start driving your brand and getting a reputation on the back of getting a reputation on the back of getting a reputation on the back of other people's traffic and volume and

other people's traffic and volume and other people's traffic and volume and that is the great thing about affiliate

that is the great thing about affiliate that is the great thing about affiliate marketing is that you can have a lot of

marketing is that you can have a lot of marketing is that you can have a lot of knowledge or you can have very limited

knowledge or you can have very limited knowledge or you can have very limited knowledge but you can set up a brand you

knowledge but you can set up a brand you knowledge but you can set up a brand you can set up an affiliate program and you

can set up an affiliate program and you can set up an affiliate program and you can start to drive that through certain

can start to drive that through certain can start to drive that through certain Affiliates advertisers who will help you

Affiliates advertisers who will help you Affiliates advertisers who will help you through that I think the next step and

through that I think the next step and through that I think the next step and what we've just kind of focus on the

what we've just kind of focus on the what we've just kind of focus on the last question is then the longevity of

last question is then the longevity of last question is then the longevity of that so understanding and getting a lot

that so understanding and getting a lot that so understanding and getting a lot of players through and you have a lot of

of players through and you have a lot of of players through and you have a lot of deposits you have a lot of Revenue but

deposits you have a lot of Revenue but deposits you have a lot of Revenue but then really understanding and figuring

then really understanding and figuring then really understanding and figuring out where that value is and which

out where that value is and which out where that value is and which Affiliates and advertisers are driving

Affiliates and advertisers are driving Affiliates and advertisers are driving that that value is the next step to kind

that that value is the next step to kind that that value is the next step to kind of being that larger brand a lot of

of being that larger brand a lot of of being that larger brand a lot of people expect to be

people expect to be people expect to be but yeah with PPC and SEO and and

but yeah with PPC and SEO and and but yeah with PPC and SEO and and affiliate marketing the more channels

affiliate marketing the more channels affiliate marketing the more channels that you can drive through the better

that you can drive through the better that you can drive through the better because again it's all in regards to

because again it's all in regards to because again it's all in regards to conversions Affiliates want conversions

conversions Affiliates want conversions conversions Affiliates want conversions Affiliates are going to give you better Affiliates are going to give you better Affiliates are going to give you better deals if they can see conversions and

deals if they can see conversions and deals if they can see conversions and they're going to be a lot more

they're going to be a lot more they're going to be a lot more um they're going to be a lot more

um they're going to be a lot more um they're going to be a lot more friendly to your brand over others and

friendly to your brand over others and friendly to your brand over others and you know how many brands are out in the

you know how many brands are out in the you know how many brands are out in the in the industry and we also know the 10%

in the industry and we also know the 10% in the industry and we also know the 10% of Affiliates that drive the majority of

of Affiliates that drive the majority of of Affiliates that drive the majority of the truffy as well would you say that

the truffy as well would you say that the truffy as well would you say that PPC is kind of like the last untapped

PPC is kind of like the last untapped PPC is kind of like the last untapped Frontier of like you know where

Frontier of like you know where Frontier of like you know where operators could actually get more value

operators could actually get more value operators could actually get more value from the traffic I've talked to some from the traffic I've talked to some from the traffic I've talked to some operators where they're like yeah we're

operators where they're like yeah we're operators where they're like yeah we're we're one of very few companies tapping

we're one of very few companies tapping we're one of very few companies tapping into certain markets in a certain space

into certain markets in a certain space into certain markets in a certain space all on PPC and they're like they're just

all on PPC and they're like they're just all on PPC and they're like they're just so glad that um their competitors are

so glad that um their competitors are so glad that um their competitors are kind of too scared or don't have the

kind of too scared or don't have the kind of too scared or don't have the budgets to kind of you know you can't

budgets to kind of you know you can't budgets to kind of you know you can't afford to make a big mistake because if afford to make a big mistake because if afford to make a big mistake because if you burn your budget and you don't get you burn your budget and you don't get you burn your budget and you don't get that Roi I mean you actually have to be

that Roi I mean you actually have to be that Roi I mean you actually have to be really good with your with your numbers

really good with your with your numbers really good with your with your numbers yeah I agree with that I think it's very

yeah I agree with that I think it's very yeah I agree with that I think it's very difficult to difficult to difficult to compete with PVC because you're

compete with PVC because you're compete with PVC because you're competing against a lot of other competing against a lot of other competing against a lot of other businesses that have large extremely

businesses that have large extremely businesses that have large extremely large budgets and again with brands that

large budgets and again with brands that large budgets and again with brands that wanting to try and perhaps get a quick

wanting to try and perhaps get a quick wanting to try and perhaps get a quick return on on their investment you're not

return on on their investment you're not return on on their investment you're not going to get that through PPC it's a

going to get that through PPC it's a going to get that through PPC it's a long game there's a lot of mistakes as

long game there's a lot of mistakes as long game there's a lot of mistakes as youve just mentioned and some of them

youve just mentioned and some of them youve just mentioned and some of them mistakes can can really kind of hold

mistakes can can really kind of hold mistakes can can really kind of hold what you're doing um so I think

what you're doing um so I think what you're doing um so I think it's scared maybe but kind of bit

it's scared maybe but kind of bit it's scared maybe but kind of bit nervous about going through the PPC

nervous about going through the PPC nervous about going through the PPC route because again going back to route because again going back to route because again going back to affiliate marketing it's a it's a much

affiliate marketing it's a it's a much affiliate marketing it's a it's a much more risk free well riskless I say um

more risk free well riskless I say um more risk free well riskless I say um Channel um and I think you do need to

Channel um and I think you do need to Channel um and I think you do need to have probably more direct knowledge when

have probably more direct knowledge when have probably more direct knowledge when you're looking into PPC and SEO as well

you're looking into PPC and SEO as well you're looking into PPC and SEO as well for that yeah they're both kind of risky

for that yeah they're both kind of risky for that yeah they're both kind of risky because I mean you get the wrong person because I mean you get the wrong person because I mean you get the wrong person on board your SEO could be damaged

on board your SEO could be damaged on board your SEO could be damaged overnight and your PBC budgets could be

overnight and your PBC budgets could be overnight and your PBC budgets could be blasted in in a week yeah yeah

blasted in in a week yeah yeah blasted in in a week yeah yeah absolutely and and as I say I

absolutely and and as I say I absolutely and and as I say I think the amount of budget that you

think the amount of budget that you think the amount of budget that you could spend on PPC in a day a lot of

could spend on PPC in a day a lot of could spend on PPC in a day a lot of brands are spending that on a month in

brands are spending that on a month in brands are spending that on a month in their affiliate their affiliate their affiliate program I believe that to be true I have

program I believe that to be true I have program I believe that to be true I have a tough question and I'm not sure what

a tough question and I'm not sure what a tough question and I'm not sure what the answer is I think Affiliates want

the answer is I think Affiliates want the answer is I think Affiliates want this answer but they're not asking it

this answer but they're not asking it this answer but they're not asking it which is is there a way where Affiliates

which is is there a way where Affiliates which is is there a way where Affiliates could be part of helping with retention

could be part of helping with retention could be part of helping with retention it's Affiliates are typically seen as

it's Affiliates are typically seen as it's Affiliates are typically seen as like an acquisition Channel but there

like an acquisition Channel but there like an acquisition Channel but there are some sites maybe forums are kind of

are some sites maybe forums are kind of are some sites maybe forums are kind of more more retention focused I'm just

more more retention focused I'm just more more retention focused I'm just wondering what do you have for thoughts

wondering what do you have for thoughts wondering what do you have for thoughts on how it feels could be part of that

on how it feels could be part of that on how it feels could be part of that retention equation or how could they

retention equation or how could they retention equation or how could they change their content and Market

change their content and Market change their content and Market such that that's a part of their

such that that's a part of their such that that's a part of their ecosystem I think absolutely you know I

ecosystem I think absolutely you know I ecosystem I think absolutely you know I think it's it's really important that

think it's it's really important that think it's it's really important that that Affiliates are part of that that Affiliates are part of that that Affiliates are part of that conversation and whether that's from the

conversation and whether that's from the conversation and whether that's from the content or the marketing that they're content or the marketing that they're content or the marketing that they're doing or it's or it's actually speaking

doing or it's or it's actually speaking doing or it's or it's actually speaking with the client themselves and with the client themselves and with the client themselves and discussing that data you know perhaps

discussing that data you know perhaps discussing that data you know perhaps even giving them some additional even giving them some additional even giving them some additional information about those customers and

information about those customers and information about those customers and what they're doing and why they're what they're doing and why they're what they're doing and why they're playing so as an

playing so as an playing so as an example you may have an affiliate that's

example you may have an affiliate that's example you may have an affiliate that's driving sport players that they're going

driving sport players that they're going driving sport players that they're going straight to casino if the affiliate

straight to casino if the affiliate straight to casino if the affiliate doesn't understand that because they may doesn't understand that because they may doesn't understand that because they may only see one overall Revenue in the

only see one overall Revenue in the only see one overall Revenue in the affiliate program they might not be

affiliate program they might not be affiliate program they might not be aware that they're driving Casino

aware that they're driving Casino aware that they're driving Casino players could they then start changing

players could they then start changing players could they then start changing the content that they have on their

the content that they have on their the content that they have on their website could they start changing the

website could they start changing the website could they start changing the way that they speak to the customers on

way that they speak to the customers on way that they speak to the customers on their site I mean you look at the likes

their site I mean you look at the likes their site I mean you look at the likes of odds cheer as a retention website

of odds cheer as a retention website of odds cheer as a retention website their odds grid is is probably one of

their odds grid is is probably one of their odds grid is is probably one of the largest retention you know tools in

the largest retention you know tools in the largest retention you know tools in the industry for sports book how

the industry for sports book how the industry for sports book how however it's very difficult to

however it's very difficult to however it's very difficult to understand how understand how understand how many acquired customers from other

many acquired customers from other many acquired customers from other Affiliates are utilizing odds Checker

Affiliates are utilizing odds Checker Affiliates are utilizing odds Checker right until you remove yourself from the

right until you remove yourself from the right until you remove yourself from the odds grid that's probably the only time

odds grid that's probably the only time odds grid that's probably the only time you can start to understand that so

you can start to understand that so you can start to understand that so obviously I imagine we'll talk about

obviously I imagine we'll talk about obviously I imagine we'll talk about kind of bi to later on but having that

kind of bi to later on but having that kind of bi to later on but having that interaction with the affiliate and

interaction with the affiliate and interaction with the affiliate and giving them perhaps that additional giving them perhaps that additional giving them perhaps that additional information it's going to serve both

information it's going to serve both information it's going to serve both sides of the coin for giving that that

sides of the coin for giving that that sides of the coin for giving that that understanding so the affiliate knows

understanding so the affiliate knows understanding so the affiliate knows their their traffic and knows their

their their traffic and knows their their their traffic and knows their volumes better than anybody else however

volumes better than anybody else however volumes better than anybody else however the brand then also knows what that

the brand then also knows what that the brand then also knows what that player journey is and how that player

player journey is and how that player player journey is and how that player and customer will work throughout so I

and customer will work throughout so I and customer will work throughout so I think there's there's a lot that the think there's there's a lot that the think there's there's a lot that the affiliate can do retention wise to help

affiliate can do retention wise to help affiliate can do retention wise to help but that's that's got to start with the

but that's that's got to start with the but that's that's got to start with the brand and they've got to provide that

brand and they've got to provide that brand and they've got to provide that information to that affiliate to help

information to that affiliate to help information to that affiliate to help and would you say that usually that

and would you say that usually that and would you say that usually that information you're talking specifically

information you're talking specifically information you're talking specifically is kind of like a beast foke report that

is kind of like a beast foke report that is kind of like a beast foke report that they have to go in and say look here's a

they have to go in and say look here's a they have to go in and say look here's a beast fol report on what's Happening

beast fol report on what's Happening beast fol report on what's Happening across our entire brand ecosystem and

across our entire brand ecosystem and across our entire brand ecosystem and then here's you in relation to that yeah

then here's you in relation to that yeah then here's you in relation to that yeah I think so I think you know when it

I think so I think you know when it I think so I think you know when it comes to you know the reports that we

comes to you know the reports that we comes to you know the reports that we display Raven tra they are they are

display Raven tra they are they are display Raven tra they are they are unique and different to each brand

unique and different to each brand unique and different to each brand because it will depend on the data that

because it will depend on the data that because it will depend on the data that we receive from them however not every

we receive from them however not every we receive from them however not every affiliate or Advertiser is going to want

affiliate or Advertiser is going to want affiliate or Advertiser is going to want to know what game the custom play on

to know what game the custom play on to know what game the custom play on what sport they're betting on what time

what sport they're betting on what time what sport they're betting on what time of day they're betting what you know

of day they're betting what you know of day they're betting what you know what emails are are being more revent to

what emails are are being more revent to what emails are are being more revent to them so I think instead of having all of

them so I think instead of having all of them so I think instead of having all of that information thrown into a platform

that information thrown into a platform that information thrown into a platform where you can then start to miss the

where you can then start to miss the where you can then start to miss the important data within a platform you

important data within a platform you important data within a platform you know I've used platforms where they

know I've used platforms where they know I've used platforms where they throw everything in there and then it

throw everything in there and then it throw everything in there and then it can be really difficult to pick the the

can be really difficult to pick the the can be really difficult to pick the the important elements of that so that's why

important elements of that so that's why important elements of that so that's why you have the be tools that's why kind of

you have the be tools that's why kind of you have the be tools that's why kind of internal dashboard that the brands have

internal dashboard that the brands have internal dashboard that the brands have I think that's that's where that data

I think that's that's where that data I think that's that's where that data should come from we can do with Raven we

should come from we can do with Raven we should come from we can do with Raven we can do thepoke reports and we have done

can do thepoke reports and we have done can do thepoke reports and we have done for for certain Affiliates that they

for for certain Affiliates that they for for certain Affiliates that they want to see that information but I think

want to see that information but I think want to see that information but I think you have to be really careful not to

you have to be really careful not to you have to be really careful not to overshadow the kind of key facts and

overshadow the kind of key facts and overshadow the kind of key facts and figures of of acquisition right because

figures of of acquisition right because figures of of acquisition right because it comes down to either the affiliate

it comes down to either the affiliate it comes down to either the affiliate manager who's getting that report for

manager who's getting that report for manager who's getting that report for you or the affiliate to say okay would

you or the affiliate to say okay would you or the affiliate to say okay would data is important here like you can get

data is important here like you can get data is important here like you can get all the data but sometimes it's either

all the data but sometimes it's either all the data but sometimes it's either analysis paralysis or maybe the Insight

analysis paralysis or maybe the Insight analysis paralysis or maybe the Insight requires someone who's a good analyst to

requires someone who's a good analyst to requires someone who's a good analyst to actually dig a bit deeper yeah yeah

actually dig a bit deeper yeah yeah actually dig a bit deeper yeah yeah absolutely and and that's the thing you

absolutely and and that's the thing you absolutely and and that's the thing you know every every business is different

know every every business is different know every every business is different some businesses have one affiliate some businesses have one affiliate some businesses have one affiliate manager some have 50 affiliate no

manager some have 50 affiliate no manager some have 50 affiliate no affiliate managers at all it might be

affiliate managers at all it might be affiliate managers at all it might be the marketing director that's running

the marketing director that's running the marketing director that's running everything so it all depends on what

everything so it all depends on what everything so it all depends on what they're trying to achieve from each

they're trying to achieve from each they're trying to achieve from each marketing channel and

marketing channel and marketing channel and from my experience before Raven track

from my experience before Raven track from my experience before Raven track when things are going well and revenues

when things are going well and revenues when things are going well and revenues coming through and you're hitting a coming through and you're hitting a coming through and you're hitting a great you know your p&l is looking

great you know your p&l is looking great you know your p&l is looking positive you you rarely look at the the

positive you you rarely look at the the positive you you rarely look at the the intricacies of of each

intricacies of of each intricacies of of each player but sometimes it's when it's a

player but sometimes it's when it's a player but sometimes it's when it's a little bit too late and you start to pay

little bit too late and you start to pay little bit too late and you start to pay a lot of money for maybe poor traffic

a lot of money for maybe poor traffic a lot of money for maybe poor traffic maybe traffic sources have changed so I

maybe traffic sources have changed so I maybe traffic sources have changed so I think this again going back to the brand

think this again going back to the brand think this again going back to the brand and what they can do I think it's it's

and what they can do I think it's it's and what they can do I think it's it's important that

important that important that they work with the Affiliates and not

they work with the Affiliates and not they work with the Affiliates and not just think of them as a as a tool of

just think of them as a as a tool of just think of them as a as a tool of driving players right I'm wondering if

driving players right I'm wondering if driving players right I'm wondering if there's maybe a new role for not just an

there's maybe a new role for not just an there's maybe a new role for not just an affiliate manager but someone who's more

affiliate manager but someone who's more affiliate manager but someone who's more of the analyst as an affiliate manager

of the analyst as an affiliate manager of the analyst as an affiliate manager that not only knows how to get these

that not only knows how to get these that not only knows how to get these reports in maybe like your uh platform

reports in maybe like your uh platform reports in maybe like your uh platform like Raven track but just even knowing

like Raven track but just even knowing like Raven track but just even knowing like what reports are useful because

like what reports are useful because like what reports are useful because it's uh what I think to be the current

it's uh what I think to be the current it's uh what I think to be the current state of our industry is that most of

state of our industry is that most of state of our industry is that most of the fil managers coming into the space

the fil managers coming into the space the fil managers coming into the space like we're going back to the 50 new

like we're going back to the 50 new like we're going back to the 50 new programs it's it's sales so I have 2,000

programs it's it's sales so I have 2,000 programs it's it's sales so I have 2,000 affiliate accounts we create an account

affiliate accounts we create an account affiliate accounts we create an account for every program whether like we're

for every program whether like we're for every program whether like we're basically only sending them Affiliates

basically only sending them Affiliates basically only sending them Affiliates like that's our only traffic and it's a

like that's our only traffic and it's a like that's our only traffic and it's a one-track mind it's like what gs do you

one-track mind it's like what gs do you one-track mind it's like what gs do you have and we try to explain what we do have and we try to explain what we do have and we try to explain what we do and it just goes over their head I just

and it just goes over their head I just and it just goes over their head I just think maybe there's like three different think maybe there's like three different think maybe there's like three different layers of affiliate managers there's

layers of affiliate managers there's layers of affiliate managers there's ones that are focused on sales like to

ones that are focused on sales like to ones that are focused on sales like to their detriment there's ones that are

their detriment there's ones that are their detriment there's ones that are very good with with relationships but

very good with with relationships but very good with with relationships but maybe they don't have the bi analyst

maybe they don't have the bi analyst maybe they don't have the bi analyst experience experience experience I'm thinking there's actually a role

I'm thinking there's actually a role I'm thinking there's actually a role available for an analyst yeah yeah

available for an analyst yeah yeah available for an analyst yeah yeah absolutely I think you know going back

absolutely I think you know going back absolutely I think you know going back to kind of businesses I've worked with

to kind of businesses I've worked with to kind of businesses I've worked with you know we've had affiliate managers

you know we've had affiliate managers you know we've had affiliate managers where they have no responsibility at all

where they have no responsibility at all where they have no responsibility at all apart from customers coming through the

apart from customers coming through the apart from customers coming through the door if those players are poor or those

door if those players are poor or those door if those players are poor or those customers are continuing to play that's

customers are continuing to play that's customers are continuing to play that's a CRM team's fault they given the in

a CRM team's fault they given the in a CRM team's fault they given the in they in their Ro that's all they do but

they in their Ro that's all they do but they in their Ro that's all they do but they have work with B businesses where

they have work with B businesses where they have work with B businesses where the affiliate manager it's their

the affiliate manager it's their the affiliate manager it's their responsibility for the ROI so they need

responsibility for the ROI so they need responsibility for the ROI so they need to have that I think data analyst I

to have that I think data analyst I to have that I think data analyst I think for me if I was to to start a

think for me if I was to to start a think for me if I was to to start a marketing business today and and and

marketing business today and and and marketing business today and and and build a brand out then a data analy

build a brand out then a data analy build a brand out then a data analy would be probably one of my first hires

would be probably one of my first hires would be probably one of my first hires alongside in the Philip manager because

alongside in the Philip manager because alongside in the Philip manager because that that is where you remove a lot of

that that is where you remove a lot of that that is where you remove a lot of the risk in in overspending and

the risk in in overspending and the risk in in overspending and overpaying for for customers so if you

overpaying for for customers so if you overpaying for for customers so if you know that a player value you know a

know that a player value you know a know that a player value you know a player is probably going to leave that player is probably going to leave that player is probably going to leave that brand after 3 months or two months or

brand after 3 months or two months or brand after 3 months or two months or six months whatever that is you know

six months whatever that is you know six months whatever that is you know that you need to grab that value and you

that you need to grab that value and you that you need to grab that value and you need you will know exactly what kind of

need you will know exactly what kind of need you will know exactly what kind of CPA that you can agree to with an

CPA that you can agree to with an CPA that you can agree to with an affiliate so if you know that a player

affiliate so if you know that a player affiliate so if you know that a player value lifetime value is $300 or 300

value lifetime value is $300 or 300 value lifetime value is $300 or 300 pounds then you know that you can't go

pounds then you know that you can't go pounds then you know that you can't go over that in regards of the CPA and I

over that in regards of the CPA and I over that in regards of the CPA and I think when you've got an affiliate

think when you've got an affiliate think when you've got an affiliate manager that is just responsible for

manager that is just responsible for manager that is just responsible for driving traffic and not responsible for

driving traffic and not responsible for driving traffic and not responsible for the value that traffic I think there can

the value that traffic I think there can the value that traffic I think there can be a real divide then on what happens

be a real divide then on what happens be a real divide then on what happens within the business I mean I prefer the

within the business I mean I prefer the within the business I mean I prefer the latter I think an AIC manager should

latter I think an AIC manager should latter I think an AIC manager should should be responsible for the whole should be responsible for the whole should be responsible for the whole journey I think there has to be

journey I think there has to be journey I think there has to be responsibility on the crmt as well for

responsibility on the crmt as well for responsibility on the crmt as well for extracting that

extracting that extracting that value but I also think it can be

value but I also think it can be value but I also think it can be difficult with the tools available for

difficult with the tools available for difficult with the tools available for an affiliate manager as well right if

an affiliate manager as well right if an affiliate manager as well right if they are only able to see what that

they are only able to see what that they are only able to see what that affiliate is done every 24 hours

affiliate is done every 24 hours affiliate is done every 24 hours how can you optimize things in in real

how can you optimize things in in real how can you optimize things in in real time so I think a lot of the tools that

time so I think a lot of the tools that time so I think a lot of the tools that we're working on within Raven track is

we're working on within Raven track is we're working on within Raven track is to give as much

to give as much to give as much opportunity to optimize as possible for

opportunity to optimize as possible for opportunity to optimize as possible for that affiliate manager because we know

that affiliate manager because we know that affiliate manager because we know that again there are very experienced

that again there are very experienced that again there are very experienced affiliate managers there are affiliate

affiliate managers there are affiliate affiliate managers there are affiliate managers that are just joining the managers that are just joining the managers that are just joining the industry you know I was one when I

industry you know I was one when I industry you know I was one when I started and I would have loved to have

started and I would have loved to have started and I would have loved to have had some of the tools are available now

had some of the tools are available now had some of the tools are available now kind of 12 years ago so I think yeah

kind of 12 years ago so I think yeah kind of 12 years ago so I think yeah again every business is different and

again every business is different and again every business is different and some businesses can't afford five

some businesses can't afford five some businesses can't afford five affiliate managers five day trist so you

affiliate managers five day trist so you affiliate managers five day trist so you need to be able to provide the tool to

need to be able to provide the tool to need to be able to provide the tool to businesses that have one person or

businesses that have one person or businesses that have one person or businesses that have 100 100 people I

businesses that have 100 100 people I businesses that have 100 100 people I think what you said about having like think what you said about having like think what you said about having like one affiliate manager and one analyst as

one affiliate manager and one analyst as one affiliate manager and one analyst as your as your two first people where the

your as your two first people where the your as your two first people where the first person is really the analyst I

first person is really the analyst I first person is really the analyst I think that's insightful because you know

think that's insightful because you know think that's insightful because you know I think uh there's a lot of people that

I think uh there's a lot of people that I think uh there's a lot of people that it's it's depositing players first it's

it's it's depositing players first it's it's it's depositing players first it's not the retention or the longevity um

not the retention or the longevity um not the retention or the longevity um but I think there's kind of like a risk but I think there's kind of like a risk but I think there's kind of like a risk in going well you could either double

in going well you could either double in going well you could either double your Affiliates or imagine you could

your Affiliates or imagine you could your Affiliates or imagine you could actually double the value that's coming

actually double the value that's coming actually double the value that's coming in from your Affiliates I mean one

in from your Affiliates I mean one in from your Affiliates I mean one sounds easier than the other but it's

sounds easier than the other but it's sounds easier than the other but it's we're not seeing it with the exception

we're not seeing it with the exception we're not seeing it with the exception of like you know the bigger programs of like you know the bigger programs of like you know the bigger programs that actually invest and have a bit yeah

that actually invest and have a bit yeah that actually invest and have a bit yeah yeah absolutely I mean we um back in the

yeah absolutely I mean we um back in the yeah absolutely I mean we um back in the day when I was at active win we created

day when I was at active win we created day when I was at active win we created uh an anchored report which essentially

uh an anchored report which essentially uh an anchored report which essentially would give you an understanding of

would give you an understanding of would give you an understanding of players that signed up in February 2022

players that signed up in February 2022 players that signed up in February 2022 it would tell you what they have done in

it would tell you what they have done in it would tell you what they have done in March 22 May so on and so forth so what

March 22 May so on and so forth so what March 22 May so on and so forth so what you would be able to then see is the

you would be able to then see is the you would be able to then see is the longevity of those players so you would

longevity of those players so you would longevity of those players so you would then be able to review February 22

then be able to review February 22 then be able to review February 22 players maybe 90% of them still playing

players maybe 90% of them still playing players maybe 90% of them still playing however your February 23 players maybe

however your February 23 players maybe however your February 23 players maybe only 10 % of them are playing so you

only 10 % of them are playing so you only 10 % of them are playing so you then you'd be able to understand and

then you'd be able to understand and then you'd be able to understand and review why is that the case has the

review why is that the case has the review why is that the case has the affiliate perhaps changed traffic Source

affiliate perhaps changed traffic Source affiliate perhaps changed traffic Source has the brand changed the welcome offers

has the brand changed the welcome offers has the brand changed the welcome offers a lot of it then comes to regulations

a lot of it then comes to regulations a lot of it then comes to regulations you know has there been a change in you know has there been a change in you know has there been a change in regulations the way the players can play

regulations the way the players can play regulations the way the players can play and deposit you know there was a big

and deposit you know there was a big and deposit you know there was a big shift when credit cards were removed

shift when credit cards were removed shift when credit cards were removed from from deposits but having that

from from deposits but having that from from deposits but having that understanding and Analysis means that

understanding and Analysis means that understanding and Analysis means that you're not combining everything together

you're not combining everything together you're not combining everything together and still working with the older players

and still working with the older players and still working with the older players and they're actually overshadowing the and they're actually overshadowing the and they're actually overshadowing the fact that you need to make fact that you need to make fact that you need to make changes and make differences for for

changes and make differences for for changes and make differences for for kind of acquisition at the moment and

kind of acquisition at the moment and kind of acquisition at the moment and customers I want to talk a bit more

customers I want to talk a bit more customers I want to talk a bit more about CRM and bi tools because it's

about CRM and bi tools because it's about CRM and bi tools because it's almost like when people think about crb

almost like when people think about crb almost like when people think about crb they're thinking about like Salesforce

they're thinking about like Salesforce they're thinking about like Salesforce and HubSpot and I I have heard a lot of

and HubSpot and I I have heard a lot of and HubSpot and I I have heard a lot of affiliate managers use these tools and I

affiliate managers use these tools and I affiliate managers use these tools and I believe these tools are more sales

believe these tools are more sales believe these tools are more sales focused and they're not maybe there's a

focused and they're not maybe there's a focused and they're not maybe there's a way of using them better um I don't

way of using them better um I don't way of using them better um I don't think they're always relationship think they're always relationship think they're always relationship focused like they're more focused on

focused like they're more focused on focused like they're more focused on let's get the number of Affiliates can

let's get the number of Affiliates can let's get the number of Affiliates can get signed up and that it's like the

get signed up and that it's like the get signed up and that it's like the number of ftds or ndc's like those are

number of ftds or ndc's like those are number of ftds or ndc's like those are the two metrics they care about but I

the two metrics they care about but I the two metrics they care about but I think a good affiliate manager is the

think a good affiliate manager is the think a good affiliate manager is the relationship building I think we're

relationship building I think we're relationship building I think we're missing the relationship building missing the relationship building missing the relationship building component of tech either native inside

component of tech either native inside component of tech either native inside affiliate platforms or um I think there

affiliate platforms or um I think there affiliate platforms or um I think there needs to be a change in CRM and then the

needs to be a change in CRM and then the needs to be a change in CRM and then the other side of it is the bi part yeah

other side of it is the bi part yeah other side of it is the bi part yeah yeah absolutely I think

yeah absolutely I think yeah absolutely I think just kind of picking up your you

just kind of picking up your you just kind of picking up your you mentioned there about relationships I

mentioned there about relationships I mentioned there about relationships I think that is very much

think that is very much think that is very much over overshadowed sometimes and a lot of

over overshadowed sometimes and a lot of over overshadowed sometimes and a lot of people don't think about how important

people don't think about how important people don't think about how important the relationship is with Affiliates and

the relationship is with Affiliates and the relationship is with Affiliates and I think that's probably why you see a

I think that's probably why you see a I think that's probably why you see a lot of people stay within the industry

lot of people stay within the industry lot of people stay within the industry when they move to different brands and when they move to different brands and when they move to different brands and operators and you will see a shift

operators and you will see a shift operators and you will see a shift affiliat advertisers moving across with

affiliat advertisers moving across with affiliat advertisers moving across with that affiliate manager because they have that affiliate manager because they have that affiliate manager because they have that relationship

that relationship that relationship and with the relationship comes trust as

and with the relationship comes trust as and with the relationship comes trust as well right so if you're a brand new

well right so if you're a brand new well right so if you're a brand new operator and nobody's heard of you and

operator and nobody's heard of you and operator and nobody's heard of you and then you maybe bring in somebody who has

then you maybe bring in somebody who has then you maybe bring in somebody who has that relationship with Affiliates then

that relationship with Affiliates then that relationship with Affiliates then you're working on you're jumping on the you're working on you're jumping on the you're working on you're jumping on the back of that reputation and relationship

back of that reputation and relationship back of that reputation and relationship that that affiliate manager has so I

that that affiliate manager has so I that that affiliate manager has so I think that's extremely

think that's extremely think that's extremely important and you kind of mentioned

important and you kind of mentioned important and you kind of mentioned there about CRM tools maybe being very

there about CRM tools maybe being very there about CRM tools maybe being very sales focused I think it depends on how

sales focused I think it depends on how sales focused I think it depends on how you want to use the CRM tool again going

you want to use the CRM tool again going you want to use the CRM tool again going back to businesses whether they have one back to businesses whether they have one back to businesses whether they have one person or 100 people I think you can use

person or 100 people I think you can use person or 100 people I think you can use it in a lot of different

it in a lot of different it in a lot of different ways um we're INR lot to move who who I

ways um we're INR lot to move who who I ways um we're INR lot to move who who I personally think are a very good CRM

personally think are a very good CRM personally think are a very good CRM tool you know they're experts in their

tool you know they're experts in their tool you know they're experts in their field we're not experts in CRM so we

field we're not experts in CRM so we field we're not experts in CRM so we work with third parties who are experts

work with third parties who are experts work with third parties who are experts in their in their in their field but what I have seen um mistakes

field but what I have seen um mistakes field but what I have seen um mistakes in the past been where CRM

in the past been where CRM in the past been where CRM is internal so it's inous within the

is internal so it's inous within the is internal so it's inous within the business is that

business is that business is that they they group all affiliate traffic

they they group all affiliate traffic they they group all affiliate traffic together so they will assume that every

together so they will assume that every together so they will assume that every player that comes from a raven Tru B tag

player that comes from a raven Tru B tag player that comes from a raven Tru B tag or a income access B tag or my philli or

or a income access B tag or my philli or or a income access B tag or my philli or or whatever it's going to follow the

or whatever it's going to follow the or whatever it's going to follow the same journey and it's going to be the

same journey and it's going to be the same journey and it's going to be the same customer pattern that's where a lot

same customer pattern that's where a lot same customer pattern that's where a lot of the mistakes come from because they

of the mistakes come from because they of the mistakes come from because they need to understand the affiliate again

need to understand the affiliate again need to understand the affiliate again and the affiliate needs to discuss with and the affiliate needs to discuss with and the affiliate needs to discuss with the brand what what their traffic is

the brand what what their traffic is the brand what what their traffic is that affiliate that you're spending $700

that affiliate that you're spending $700 that affiliate that you're spending $700 with CPA they'll be working with 50 or

with CPA they'll be working with 50 or with CPA they'll be working with 50 or 60 different brands so they know how to

60 different brands so they know how to 60 different brands so they know how to extract that customer value so whether

extract that customer value so whether extract that customer value so whether that be an exclusive welcome offer that

that be an exclusive welcome offer that that be an exclusive welcome offer that that player gets whether they get a an

that player gets whether they get a an that player gets whether they get a an email on the second day of signing up or

email on the second day of signing up or email on the second day of signing up or whether you give them a week or whether whether you give them a week or whether whether you give them a week or whether you wait for an exclusive event I think

you wait for an exclusive event I think you wait for an exclusive event I think that's really important from a CRM team

that's really important from a CRM team that's really important from a CRM team to understand

to understand to understand that player from a from a um social

that player from a from a um social that player from a from a um social media affiliate will be completely

media affiliate will be completely media affiliate will be completely different to a PPC affiliate which will

different to a PPC affiliate which will different to a PPC affiliate which will be completely different to a be completely different to a be completely different to a content-based affiliate and I think

content-based affiliate and I think content-based affiliate and I think that's where CRM team will get their

that's where CRM team will get their that's where CRM team will get their worth is by not coupling everything

worth is by not coupling everything worth is by not coupling everything together um because they're completely

together um because they're completely together um because they're completely different every affiliate you know has

different every affiliate you know has different every affiliate you know has complete different way that they drive complete different way that they drive complete different way that they drive traffic and volume and they're

traffic and volume and they're traffic and volume and they're interested they want retention as well

interested they want retention as well interested they want retention as well whether it's CPA or not they still want

whether it's CPA or not they still want whether it's CPA or not they still want that player to keep coming back because

that player to keep coming back because that player to keep coming back because it shows that they can drive value to

it shows that they can drive value to it shows that they can drive value to your bus and they can keep the CPA at

your bus and they can keep the CPA at your bus and they can keep the CPA at the levels that they want the levels that they want the levels that they want to I want to take a quick step back

to I want to take a quick step back to I want to take a quick step back because you mentioned optim Mo now maybe

because you mentioned optim Mo now maybe because you mentioned optim Mo now maybe I just don't understand them as much are

I just don't understand them as much are I just don't understand them as much are they meant more for uh an operator to

they meant more for uh an operator to they meant more for uh an operator to manage their players or is that also a

manage their players or is that also a manage their players or is that also a tool to manage your

tool to manage your tool to manage your Affiliates it's tool to manage sorry to

Affiliates it's tool to manage sorry to Affiliates it's tool to manage sorry to manage their players right yeah so we

manage their players right yeah so we manage their players right yeah so we work with them so essentially they have

work with them so essentially they have work with them so essentially they have all the the information and data in

all the the information and data in all the the information and data in regards to that customer and where that

regards to that customer and where that regards to that customer and where that customer goes to what games they play

customer goes to what games they play customer goes to what games they play how long they stay on the site and what

how long they stay on the site and what how long they stay on the site and what they do they couple that with the data

they do they couple that with the data they do they couple that with the data that we have from an acquisition

that we have from an acquisition that we have from an acquisition perspective so how much that

perspective so how much that perspective so how much that customer we've had to pay for that

customer we've had to pay for that customer we've had to pay for that customer to come in what Revenue share

customer to come in what Revenue share customer to come in what Revenue share they're on so they couple that together

they're on so they couple that together they're on so they couple that together and they will understand what value they

and they will understand what value they and they will understand what value they need to extract from that player to

need to extract from that player to need to extract from that player to essentially break even and make profit

essentially break even and make profit essentially break even and make profit I think from a CRM perspective for

I think from a CRM perspective for I think from a CRM perspective for Affiliates so say Hobs you know going

Affiliates so say Hobs you know going Affiliates so say Hobs you know going out and speaking to

out and speaking to out and speaking to affiliat I would

affiliat I would affiliat I would personally not utilize that I would I

personally not utilize that I would I personally not utilize that I would I would rather have an affiliate manager

would rather have an affiliate manager would rather have an affiliate manager that reaches out

that reaches out that reaches out individually it you know the amount of

individually it you know the amount of individually it you know the amount of events

events events conferences you know forums that You'

conferences you know forums that You' conferences you know forums that You' mentioned earlier John you know there's

mentioned earlier John you know there's mentioned earlier John you know there's a lot of opportunity to reach out to

a lot of opportunity to reach out to a lot of opportunity to reach out to these affiliates and these Affiliates

these affiliates and these Affiliates these affiliates and these Affiliates are very open to

are very open to are very open to working with Brands and new brands you

working with Brands and new brands you working with Brands and new brands you know new brands into the

know new brands into the know new brands into the market are perfect for them because

market are perfect for them because market are perfect for them because they're not saturated and they're able

they're not saturated and they're able they're not saturated and they're able to start driving more traffic but I

to start driving more traffic but I to start driving more traffic but I think when you start seeing CRM

think when you start seeing CRM think when you start seeing CRM systems if I was an affiliate I would

systems if I was an affiliate I would systems if I was an affiliate I would probably put them to the bottom of the

probably put them to the bottom of the probably put them to the bottom of the list over someone reaching out and kind

list over someone reaching out and kind list over someone reaching out and kind of make it a bit more of make it a bit more of make it a bit more personal I would agree and then taking a

personal I would agree and then taking a personal I would agree and then taking a step back to like the CRM component

step back to like the CRM component step back to like the CRM component I'm just thinking out loud that let's

I'm just thinking out loud that let's I'm just thinking out loud that let's pretend I I was back you know being an

pretend I I was back you know being an pretend I I was back you know being an affiliate today I would actually want to

affiliate today I would actually want to affiliate today I would actually want to know who's actually working on these

know who's actually working on these know who's actually working on these retention or uh tools to optimize the

retention or uh tools to optimize the retention or uh tools to optimize the business or even ones that stop Revenue

business or even ones that stop Revenue business or even ones that stop Revenue leaks so for example optimove is a is a

leaks so for example optimove is a is a leaks so for example optimove is a is a good CRM um I know Greco does bonus

good CRM um I know Greco does bonus good CRM um I know Greco does bonus abuse like if I'm sending players to an

abuse like if I'm sending players to an abuse like if I'm sending players to an operator I want to make sure that the

operator I want to make sure that the operator I want to make sure that the bonus abuse isn't going to like knock

bonus abuse isn't going to like knock bonus abuse isn't going to like knock them out of business which has actually

them out of business which has actually them out of business which has actually been happening for for like decades or

been happening for for like decades or been happening for for like decades or like what what other kind of tools like like what what other kind of tools like like what what other kind of tools like maybe they can use um like Warrior lab

maybe they can use um like Warrior lab maybe they can use um like Warrior lab for kind of going hey what does our VIP

for kind of going hey what does our VIP for kind of going hey what does our VIP program look like I'm just wondering if

program look like I'm just wondering if program look like I'm just wondering if you think there maybe could be a

you think there maybe could be a you think there maybe could be a feedback loop to say hey if you're going

feedback loop to say hey if you're going feedback loop to say hey if you're going to be working with this brand it's not

to be working with this brand it's not to be working with this brand it's not just that they use Raven track they also

just that they use Raven track they also just that they use Raven track they also have these other platforms um just

have these other platforms um just have these other platforms um just thinking out loud if you think this thinking out loud if you think this thinking out loud if you think this would be a valuable feedback loop no

would be a valuable feedback loop no would be a valuable feedback loop no definitely I think anything a brand is

definitely I think anything a brand is definitely I think anything a brand is doing to help extract value from a

doing to help extract value from a doing to help extract value from a the affiliate should know about that

the affiliate should know about that the affiliate should know about that because it's going to put you above the

because it's going to put you above the because it's going to put you above the brands within the industry and I think a

brands within the industry and I think a brands within the industry and I think a lot of this is done by a lot of Brands

lot of this is done by a lot of Brands lot of this is done by a lot of Brands but they don't give that

but they don't give that but they don't give that visibility and I think you know some

visibility and I think you know some visibility and I think you know some Affiliates that they don't

Affiliates that they don't Affiliates that they don't care that's that's absolutely fine

care that's that's absolutely fine care that's that's absolutely fine because they you know they know what because they you know they know what because they you know they know what they're driving and they they leave it

they're driving and they they leave it they're driving and they they leave it up to the brands and they don't really

up to the brands and they don't really up to the brands and they don't really want to know how they do it they just

want to know how they do it they just want to know how they do it they just want to know that it's being done but I

want to know that it's being done but I want to know that it's being done but I think your larger advertis and think your larger advertis and think your larger advertis and Affiliates you need to have dialogue

Affiliates you need to have dialogue Affiliates you need to have dialogue with them because a lot of the Philips

with them because a lot of the Philips with them because a lot of the Philips advertisers have a lot more knowledge

advertisers have a lot more knowledge advertisers have a lot more knowledge than the brand as well when it comes to

than the brand as well when it comes to than the brand as well when it comes to how you can extract more value so they

how you can extract more value so they how you can extract more value so they will know whether another brand is using

will know whether another brand is using will know whether another brand is using the bonusing tool whether they're using

the bonusing tool whether they're using the bonusing tool whether they're using traffic guard to stop forent traffic

traffic guard to stop forent traffic traffic guard to stop forent traffic coming through whether they have a

coming through whether they have a coming through whether they have a really good VIP program that they're

really good VIP program that they're really good VIP program that they're seeing a lot of value from I think that

seeing a lot of value from I think that seeing a lot of value from I think that dialogue is extremely important

dialogue is extremely important dialogue is extremely important and there are only only a number of

and there are only only a number of and there are only only a number of brands that do that extremely well I'm

brands that do that extremely well I'm brands that do that extremely well I'm I'm I'm we privileged to have quite a

I'm I'm we privileged to have quite a I'm I'm we privileged to have quite a lot of them on raag and track um and you

lot of them on raag and track um and you lot of them on raag and track um and you can see that it works because you can can see that it works because you can can see that it works because you can see the value and and the way that the

see the value and and the way that the see the value and and the way that the Affiliates will drive more traffic to

Affiliates will drive more traffic to Affiliates will drive more traffic to that brand because they're trusted and

that brand because they're trusted and that brand because they're trusted and having that dialogue is it means that

having that dialogue is it means that having that dialogue is it means that that that communication that trust is

that that communication that trust is that that communication that trust is there and that relationship starts to there and that relationship starts to there and that relationship starts to build so yeah I'd agree I think that

build so yeah I'd agree I think that build so yeah I'd agree I think that goes not just for these Services I think

goes not just for these Services I think goes not just for these Services I think it goes for anything

it goes for anything it goes for anything from what's coming up in the next six

from what's coming up in the next six from what's coming up in the next six months months months is there going to be brand changes is

is there going to be brand changes is is there going to be brand changes is there going to be a new welcome of there going to be a new welcome of there going to be a new welcome of coming in are you going to be opening a

coming in are you going to be opening a coming in are you going to be opening a sports book are you going to be working

sports book are you going to be working sports book are you going to be working with new gaming providers all of this is

with new gaming providers all of this is with new gaming providers all of this is is gold for Affiliates because well ahe

is gold for Affiliates because well ahe is gold for Affiliates because well ahe you're giving me uh a lot of good points

you're giving me uh a lot of good points you're giving me uh a lot of good points of what we could do as a company so I

of what we could do as a company so I of what we could do as a company so I should probably be sending you a payment

should probably be sending you a payment should probably be sending you a payment or commission for for all this help

or commission for for all this help or commission for for all this help right worries um one topic that I think

right worries um one topic that I think right worries um one topic that I think is actually not talked about a ton of

is actually not talked about a ton of is actually not talked about a ton of and you touched upon it which which is and you touched upon it which which is and you touched upon it which which is like a VIP program and it's interesting

like a VIP program and it's interesting like a VIP program and it's interesting because I'm planning to have um you know

because I'm planning to have um you know because I'm planning to have um you know gy from Warrior lab on as a guest at

gy from Warrior lab on as a guest at gy from Warrior lab on as a guest at some point and he was saying that he

some point and he was saying that he some point and he was saying that he felt he rocked the boat by talking about

felt he rocked the boat by talking about felt he rocked the boat by talking about the fight club it's like don't talk

the fight club it's like don't talk the fight club it's like don't talk about Fight Club don't talk about VIP

about Fight Club don't talk about VIP about Fight Club don't talk about VIP but I think we're getting to the point but I think we're getting to the point but I think we're getting to the point where people want to know more about

where people want to know more about where people want to know more about this like um personally I think a lot of

this like um personally I think a lot of this like um personally I think a lot of operators if they don't know about the

operators if they don't know about the operators if they don't know about the different CRM tools like optimove it's

different CRM tools like optimove it's different CRM tools like optimove it's or Recco it's kind of like well what

or Recco it's kind of like well what or Recco it's kind of like well what about VIP it's like like you said with

about VIP it's like like you said with about VIP it's like like you said with the the previous affiliate managers that

the the previous affiliate managers that the the previous affiliate managers that have that experience like where do you

have that experience like where do you have that experience like where do you find these people how do you build your find these people how do you build your find these people how do you build your program out yeah I think um I think VIP

program out yeah I think um I think VIP program out yeah I think um I think VIP programs are um I think you're right

programs are um I think you're right programs are um I think you're right with the fight for reference I think

with the fight for reference I think with the fight for reference I think people don't really want to talk about

people don't really want to talk about people don't really want to talk about it and maybe that's down to kind of

it and maybe that's down to kind of it and maybe that's down to kind of regulations and how you extract that

regulations and how you extract that regulations and how you extract that value and what you deem as a VIP

value and what you deem as a VIP value and what you deem as a VIP Customer because I suppose You' got to

Customer because I suppose You' got to Customer because I suppose You' got to understand it's it's the that decides

understand it's it's the that decides understand it's it's the that decides whether a customer has thep and how they

whether a customer has thep and how they whether a customer has thep and how they deal with them um I think that

deal with them um I think that deal with them um I think that conversation needs to be had and I think

conversation needs to be had and I think conversation needs to be had and I think it needs to be a lot more open in

it needs to be a lot more open in it needs to be a lot more open in regards to to how that is and again it

regards to to how that is and again it regards to to how that is and again it comes down to you know you talk about

comes down to you know you talk about comes down to you know you talk about CRM tools VI VIP tools you know bonus of

CRM tools VI VIP tools you know bonus of CRM tools VI VIP tools you know bonus of using tools Unfortunately they all come

using tools Unfortunately they all come using tools Unfortunately they all come at a cost to the business as well so all

at a cost to the business as well so all at a cost to the business as well so all these Services they need to extract the

these Services they need to extract the these Services they need to extract the value from that customer for it to be

value from that customer for it to be value from that customer for it to be you know for it to be possible for the

you know for it to be possible for the you know for it to be possible for the company to continue with that so I think

company to continue with that so I think company to continue with that so I think everything that's done has to be done

everything that's done has to be done everything that's done has to be done strategically I would always suggest

strategically I would always suggest strategically I would always suggest that you you work with the experts

that you you work with the experts that you you work with the experts within each field so again mentioned

within each field so again mentioned within each field so again mentioned optim you know we work with traffic

optim you know we work with traffic optim you know we work with traffic guards from fraud prevention tool even

guards from fraud prevention tool even guards from fraud prevention tool even from um you know content creation we

from um you know content creation we from um you know content creation we work with the lies of B Banner now and

work with the lies of B Banner now and work with the lies of B Banner now and banner flow because that's that's what

banner flow because that's that's what banner flow because that's that's what they do so just as we integrate with

they do so just as we integrate with they do so just as we integrate with third parties who are experts in the

third parties who are experts in the third parties who are experts in the field I think BR should do exactly the

field I think BR should do exactly the field I think BR should do exactly the same thing as well if they've not got

same thing as well if they've not got same thing as well if they've not got that resource

that resource that resource internally I agree and then last

internally I agree and then last internally I agree and then last question is what do you think is the

question is what do you think is the question is what do you think is the future of affiliate marketing as it future of affiliate marketing as it future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business

intersects with business intersects with business intelligence um I think you know we

intelligence um I think you know we intelligence um I think you know we obviously touched on it kind of earlier

obviously touched on it kind of earlier obviously touched on it kind of earlier I I I think we're working very heavily at the

think we're working very heavily at the think we're working very heavily at the moment with um

moment with um moment with um internal bi tool with the brands

internal bi tool with the brands internal bi tool with the brands themselves so currently and a lot of the

themselves so currently and a lot of the themselves so currently and a lot of the time is that they send us the

time is that they send us the time is that they send us the data we filter the data out we provide

data we filter the data out we provide data we filter the data out we provide it to the Affiliates we run commissions

it to the Affiliates we run commissions it to the Affiliates we run commissions we show everything in the way that it

we show everything in the way that it we show everything in the way that it should show and then they pull it

should show and then they pull it should show and then they pull it straight back into their internal

straight back into their internal straight back into their internal dashboard with commission costs with

dashboard with commission costs with dashboard with commission costs with everything that they need to see for a everything that they need to see for a everything that they need to see for a raven track now we're working with a

raven track now we're working with a raven track now we're working with a number of Brands to say well what can we

number of Brands to say well what can we number of Brands to say well what can we extract from your in internal bi after

extract from your in internal bi after extract from your in internal bi after we've passed the information back to you

we've passed the information back to you we've passed the information back to you so whether that comes from you know what

so whether that comes from you know what so whether that comes from you know what that customer does further on what

that customer does further on what that customer does further on what products they play on what games that

products they play on what games that products they play on what games that they play on so actually instead of the

they play on so actually instead of the they play on so actually instead of the data coming in and then coming straight data coming in and then coming straight data coming in and then coming straight back out how can we extract some of the

back out how can we extract some of the back out how can we extract some of the data from your internal bi system as

data from your internal bi system as data from your internal bi system as well to show more formative information

well to show more formative information well to show more formative information for the Affiliates within within our

for the Affiliates within within our for the Affiliates within within our platform platform platform itself um we have a lot of data that

itself um we have a lot of data that itself um we have a lot of data that comes into the platform already um

comes into the platform already um comes into the platform already um obviously it's up to the brand and the obviously it's up to the brand and the obviously it's up to the brand and the client what information that they want client what information that they want client what information that they want to display with Affiliates or not we

to display with Affiliates or not we to display with Affiliates or not we that's entirely up to them what they that's entirely up to them what they that's entirely up to them what they want to do we went we spoke earlier

want to do we went we spoke earlier want to do we went we spoke earlier about um in in the past a lot of

about um in in the past a lot of about um in in the past a lot of platforms that have utilized have thrown

platforms that have utilized have thrown platforms that have utilized have thrown too much data in and then it can be very

too much data in and then it can be very too much data in and then it can be very difficult for you to extract and

difficult for you to extract and difficult for you to extract and understand the important information

understand the important information understand the important information about that and I think that needs to be

about that and I think that needs to be about that and I think that needs to be really carefully thought out on what you

really carefully thought out on what you really carefully thought out on what you do in regards to that data however that

do in regards to that data however that do in regards to that data however that doesn't mean to say that if an affiliate

doesn't mean to say that if an affiliate doesn't mean to say that if an affiliate who has who is a large business some of

who has who is a large business some of who has who is a large business some of these Affiliates are larger than the

these Affiliates are larger than the these Affiliates are larger than the brands

brands brands themselves give them the data that they

themselves give them the data that they themselves give them the data that they want give them the data that they need

want give them the data that they need want give them the data that they need to help to help to help optimize and and really push acquisition

optimize and and really push acquisition optimize and and really push acquisition across um obviously you know generative

across um obviously you know generative across um obviously you know generative AI a lot of people are speaking to that

AI a lot of people are speaking to that AI a lot of people are speaking to that at the moment we want to we're working

at the moment we want to we're working at the moment we want to we're working with a number of companies at the moment with a number of companies at the moment with a number of companies at the moment to build that into Raven track because

to build that into Raven track because to build that into Raven track because we know that a report that you might we know that a report that you might we know that a report that you might want JN is completely different to what

want JN is completely different to what want JN is completely different to what Dar might want or might be completely

Dar might want or might be completely Dar might want or might be completely different to what one client to another

different to what one client to another different to what one client to another client want and we shouldn't

client want and we shouldn't client want and we shouldn't restrict Affiliates or Brands to what

restrict Affiliates or Brands to what restrict Affiliates or Brands to what they should see or affiliate managers we

they should see or affiliate managers we they should see or affiliate managers we should say here's all the

should say here's all the should say here's all the data you can do whatever you want with

data you can do whatever you want with data you can do whatever you want with this data because a lot of Brands a lot

this data because a lot of Brands a lot this data because a lot of Brands a lot of affili they just use the API they

of affili they just use the API they of affili they just use the API they will export put it into Excel and then

will export put it into Excel and then will export put it into Excel and then they will run their own pivot tables

they will run their own pivot tables they will run their own pivot tables because that's specific to their needs

because that's specific to their needs because that's specific to their needs what we want to be able to do is mean

what we want to be able to do is mean what we want to be able to do is mean that they can keep everything within that they can keep everything within that they can keep everything within Raven track so they can create a bespoke

Raven track so they can create a bespoke Raven track so they can create a bespoke report for them so when they log in in

report for them so when they log in in report for them so when they log in in the morning their dashboard will say

the morning their dashboard will say the morning their dashboard will say these are your top 10 Affiliates by

these are your top 10 Affiliates by these are your top 10 Affiliates by clicks or these are your top 10

clicks or these are your top 10 clicks or these are your top 10 Affiliates by Affiliates by Affiliates by country we suggest that you go and speak

country we suggest that you go and speak country we suggest that you go and speak to affiliate a because they've increased

to affiliate a because they've increased to affiliate a because they've increased their conversion rates over the last their conversion rates over the last their conversion rates over the last week this is all the information that we

week this is all the information that we week this is all the information that we want to showcase because essentially we

want to showcase because essentially we want to showcase because essentially we have that data available to us and we

have that data available to us and we have that data available to us and we want to be able to

want to be able to want to be able to support people and users using our

support people and users using our support people and users using our platform to be able to do that I think

platform to be able to do that I think platform to be able to do that I think you're touching upon sort of a problem

you're touching upon sort of a problem you're touching upon sort of a problem we have in that Affiliates will ask us

we have in that Affiliates will ask us we have in that Affiliates will ask us going hey if we can use statr data and

going hey if we can use statr data and going hey if we can use statr data and then build a custom Tableau dashboard

then build a custom Tableau dashboard then build a custom Tableau dashboard they're kind of like well you tell us

they're kind of like well you tell us they're kind of like well you tell us what is possible but sometimes they have

what is possible but sometimes they have what is possible but sometimes they have a very specific need they're like I need

a very specific need they're like I need a very specific need they're like I need exact this they they come with

exact this they they come with exact this they they come with everything prepared and I think it's

everything prepared and I think it's everything prepared and I think it's really difficult to have a one siiz fits

really difficult to have a one siiz fits really difficult to have a one siiz fits all like like you said absolutely I

all like like you said absolutely I all like like you said absolutely I think sometimes they might not know what

think sometimes they might not know what think sometimes they might not know what they want as well but I think that's

they want as well but I think that's they want as well but I think that's down to to ourselves to be able to push

down to to ourselves to be able to push down to to ourselves to be able to push them in the direction that we believe

them in the direction that we believe them in the direction that we believe that they should go in um we have a lot

that they should go in um we have a lot that they should go in um we have a lot of clients that will move from their own

of clients that will move from their own of clients that will move from their own proprietary software to to our platform

proprietary software to to our platform proprietary software to to our platform and I think that is you

and I think that is you and I think that is you know that is important that usually

know that is important that usually know that is important that usually happens when the brand gets to a certain

happens when the brand gets to a certain happens when the brand gets to a certain level where they need to Outsource that

level where they need to Outsource that level where they need to Outsource that to somebody that focuses solely on that

to somebody that focuses solely on that to somebody that focuses solely on that so I would always suggest and I would

so I would always suggest and I would so I would always suggest and I would always recommend whether it's a brand

always recommend whether it's a brand always recommend whether it's a brand with ourselves

with ourselves with ourselves or my Affiliates refer

or my Affiliates refer or my Affiliates refer whoever speak to the speak to the

whoever speak to the speak to the whoever speak to the speak to the platform ask them you know what's

platform ask them you know what's platform ask them you know what's working well what what are some people

working well what what are some people working well what what are some people doing that's slightly different to us

doing that's slightly different to us doing that's slightly different to us because we want the brands to grow we

because we want the brands to grow we because we want the brands to grow we want them to grow we want them to stay

want them to grow we want them to stay want them to grow we want them to stay with us we want them to keep building with us we want them to keep building with us we want them to keep building their revenue because it helps both

their revenue because it helps both their revenue because it helps both sides of things so I think yeah you've

sides of things so I think yeah you've sides of things so I think yeah you've got that help and support available and

got that help and support available and got that help and support available and I know that you know we would definitely

I know that you know we would definitely I know that you know we would definitely provide that information and support of

provide that information and support of provide that information and support of what we think you could be doing

what we think you could be doing what we think you could be doing differently um so I would really

differently um so I would really differently um so I would really strongly suggest that people do reach strongly suggest that people do reach strongly suggest that people do reach out to their to their tracking platforms

out to their to their tracking platforms out to their to their tracking platforms to to to that and then there could be another

that and then there could be another that and then there could be another conversation or an article about um what

conversation or an article about um what conversation or an article about um what it's like to build your own stat

it's like to build your own stat it's like to build your own stat tracking platform on our side and the

tracking platform on our side and the tracking platform on our side and the same thing on your side which is um do

same thing on your side which is um do same thing on your side which is um do you want to do this in-house or do you you want to do this in-house or do you you want to do this in-house or do you want to go with an established platform

want to go with an established platform want to go with an established platform and I think we already know what our

and I think we already know what our and I think we already know what our answers are in advance but I think uh

answers are in advance but I think uh answers are in advance but I think uh there's some educational content we

there's some educational content we there's some educational content we could be doing to say you're going to do

could be doing to say you're going to do could be doing to say you're going to do it this is what you're going to go up it this is what you're going to go up it this is what you're going to go up against and this is these are all the

against and this is these are all the against and this is these are all the examples of how it can work but yeah you

examples of how it can work but yeah you examples of how it can work but yeah you pick and choose what you want I think I

pick and choose what you want I think I pick and choose what you want I think I think you're right there so you know you

think you're right there so you know you think you're right there so you know you work with a lot of clients we work with

work with a lot of clients we work with work with a lot of clients we work with a lot of clients so something that they

a lot of clients so something that they a lot of clients so something that they may be doing at the moment with their may be doing at the moment with their may be doing at the moment with their propri software that might be taking

propri software that might be taking propri software that might be taking them five days to run a report it might

them five days to run a report it might them five days to run a report it might be taking them a long time to do

be taking them a long time to do be taking them a long time to do something speak to us because we we will

something speak to us because we we will something speak to us because we we will have a feature or we will have a have a feature or we will have a have a feature or we will have a solution that may make things a lot

solution that may make things a lot solution that may make things a lot easier that is that is that is our main

easier that is that is that is our main easier that is that is that is our main goal as a business is to make people's

goal as a business is to make people's goal as a business is to make people's jobs easier and to extract and drive as

jobs easier and to extract and drive as jobs easier and to extract and drive as much revenue as possible to the business

much revenue as possible to the business much revenue as possible to the business it really is as simple as that um you

it really is as simple as that um you it really is as simple as that um you know we have the the experience and the

know we have the the experience and the know we have the the experience and the knowledge of working with Brands Sports

knowledge of working with Brands Sports knowledge of working with Brands Sports sport Casino Bingo Lottery Forex African

sport Casino Bingo Lottery Forex African sport Casino Bingo Lottery Forex African Brands European Brands you know American

Brands European Brands you know American Brands European Brands you know American brands we can help we can push you in

brands we can help we can push you in brands we can help we can push you in the right direction of what we think you

the right direction of what we think you the right direction of what we think you should do and we we can always recommend

should do and we we can always recommend should do and we we can always recommend certain aspects as

certain aspects as certain aspects as well Adam uh thank you so much for doing

well Adam uh thank you so much for doing well Adam uh thank you so much for doing this this is a really insightful chat I

this this is a really insightful chat I this this is a really insightful chat I didn't even get to most of the questions

didn't even get to most of the questions didn't even get to most of the questions because we went down rabbit holes and it

because we went down rabbit holes and it because we went down rabbit holes and it was uh entertaining how can people get

was uh entertaining how can people get was uh entertaining how can people get inv all of you and I'll pass it back to

inv all of you and I'll pass it back to inv all of you and I'll pass it back to you yeah so um if you want to hear about

you yeah so um if you want to hear about you yeah so um if you want to hear about Raven track and the best place to go is

Raven track and the best place to go is Raven track and the best place to go is is ravent tr.com you can reach out to me

is ravent tr.com you can reach out to me is ravent tr.com you can reach out to me personally Adam ravent tr.com or you've

personally Adam ravent tr.com or you've personally Adam ravent tr.com or you've got contact at ravent tr.com as well um

got contact at ravent tr.com as well um got contact at ravent tr.com as well um if you want to have a demo of our if you want to have a demo of our if you want to have a demo of our platform you know we'll be able to send

platform you know we'll be able to send platform you know we'll be able to send you across logins and yeah it'd be

you across logins and yeah it'd be you across logins and yeah it'd be really interesting to to speak to people

really interesting to to speak to people really interesting to to speak to people even you know if you've got no interest

even you know if you've got no interest even you know if you've got no interest in moving across to us if you want to

in moving across to us if you want to in moving across to us if you want to have any kind of information or

have any kind of information or have any kind of information or knowledge I really enjoy having knowledge I really enjoy having knowledge I really enjoy having conversations about this awesome thank

conversations about this awesome thank conversations about this awesome thank you so much for doing this John thank

you so much for doing this John thank you so much for doing this John thank you very

much thank you for tuning in to the much thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take

affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to

this time to ask for a small favor to this time to ask for a small favor to leave a rating and review wherever you

leave a rating and review wherever you leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast that helps us

listen to your podcast that helps us listen to your podcast that helps us expand our reach to rank higher in

expand our reach to rank higher in expand our reach to rank higher in podcast directories and reach more

podcast directories and reach more podcast directories and reach more listeners