VIP Strategy in iGaming with Gali Hartuv

this is a conversation I've been having this is a conversation I've been having for a couple of months with a few

for a couple of months with a few for a couple of months with a few individuals around the concept of a

individuals around the concept of a individuals around the concept of a concierge and we seeing this happen more

concierge and we seeing this happen more concierge and we seeing this happen more and more in uh the industry uh with

and more in uh the industry uh with and more in uh the industry uh with companies like VIP stake and uh be hero

companies like VIP stake and uh be hero companies like VIP stake and uh be hero I think it was that's launched their own I think it was that's launched their own I think it was that's launched their own VIP Services uh cono services and I

VIP Services uh cono services and I VIP Services uh cono services and I think this is going to be the next

think this is going to be the next think this is going to be the next generation of affiliation in the VIP

generation of affiliation in the VIP generation of affiliation in the VIP space now the risk factor is that people

space now the risk factor is that people space now the risk factor is that people just try to commercialize it and it

just try to commercialize it and it just try to commercialize it and it defeats the whole point of con which

defeats the whole point of con which defeats the whole point of con which again goes down to personalization and

again goes down to personalization and again goes down to personalization and getting to know your audience um I don't

getting to know your audience um I don't getting to know your audience um I don't believe Affiliates know Their audience

believe Affiliates know Their audience believe Affiliates know Their audience enough and that leads to a breakdown in

enough and that leads to a breakdown in enough and that leads to a breakdown in trying to refer or direct that traffic

trying to refer or direct that traffic trying to refer or direct that traffic to the right source and that is

to the right source and that is to the right source and that is something I believe over the next 2 3

something I believe over the next 2 3 something I believe over the next 2 3 years we're going to see change quite a

years we're going to see change quite a years we're going to see change quite a bit big you know with the impacts of

bit big you know with the impacts of bit big you know with the impacts of things like Google and SEO and things

things like Google and SEO and things things like Google and SEO and things we're going to need to innovate we're

we're going to need to innovate we're we're going to need to innovate we're going to need to change how we're

going to need to change how we're going to need to change how we're presenting ourself um and these kind of

presenting ourself um and these kind of presenting ourself um and these kind of con or recommendation or VIP reviews are

con or recommendation or VIP reviews are con or recommendation or VIP reviews are going to become pivotal to diversifying

going to become pivotal to diversifying going to become pivotal to diversifying the offering that exists right

the offering that exists right the offering that exists right now I'm John Wright and you're listening

now I'm John Wright and you're listening now I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business

to affiliate bi the business to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing

intelligence and affiliate marketing intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by

podcast brought to you by podcast brought to you by sta welcome to the Philip bi podcast

sta welcome to the Philip bi podcast sta welcome to the Philip bi podcast today we're chatting with G hardto who

today we're chatting with G hardto who today we're chatting with G hardto who is the CEO of warrior lab and he's also

is the CEO of warrior lab and he's also is the CEO of warrior lab and he's also got a popular Niche newsletter in

got a popular Niche newsletter in got a popular Niche newsletter in igaming called G's guide which covers

igaming called G's guide which covers igaming called G's guide which covers the world of VIP and I think everyone

the world of VIP and I think everyone the world of VIP and I think everyone should listen or read it uh GLE welcome

should listen or read it uh GLE welcome should listen or read it uh GLE welcome to the show thank you John for having me

to the show thank you John for having me to the show thank you John for having me great to be here so I want to get

great to be here so I want to get great to be here so I want to get started by talking about your story in

started by talking about your story in started by talking about your story in launching gle's guide which is I think

launching gle's guide which is I think launching gle's guide which is I think it's been a year ago that when you it's been a year ago that when you it's been a year ago that when you started it and when I saw it I was like

started it and when I saw it I was like started it and when I saw it I was like this is cool because it's VIP content

this is cool because it's VIP content this is cool because it's VIP content and as a former affiliate manager and

and as a former affiliate manager and and as a former affiliate manager and VIP manager I'm like there there's no

VIP manager I'm like there there's no VIP manager I'm like there there's no guides for this stuff out there and I

guides for this stuff out there and I guides for this stuff out there and I know you shared with me uh a couple

know you shared with me uh a couple know you shared with me uh a couple stories about some people weren't happy

stories about some people weren't happy stories about some people weren't happy where it's like don't talk about Fight

where it's like don't talk about Fight where it's like don't talk about Fight Club so I just want to know how all of

Club so I just want to know how all of Club so I just want to know how all of the story the story the story happened so you know we we turned one

happened so you know we we turned one happened so you know we we turned one last month which is crazy to think about

last month which is crazy to think about last month which is crazy to think about I mean now these guid started off as

I mean now these guid started off as I mean now these guid started off as quite literally a project that was just

quite literally a project that was just quite literally a project that was just to pass time and write down thoughts and

to pass time and write down thoughts and to pass time and write down thoughts and having discussions with clients or

having discussions with clients or having discussions with clients or people within the industry you know

people within the industry you know people within the industry you know there would be some really constructive

there would be some really constructive there would be some really constructive and interesting conversations that would

and interesting conversations that would and interesting conversations that would happen and you know in the buildup to

happen and you know in the buildup to happen and you know in the buildup to the launch in August

the launch in August the launch in August 23 um there were hundreds if got

23 um there were hundreds if got 23 um there were hundreds if got thousands of conversations that

thousands of conversations that thousands of conversations that transpired over the years leading to

transpired over the years leading to transpired over the years leading to that point and cly there was this re

that point and cly there was this re that point and cly there was this re iterated uh question why don't you write

iterated uh question why don't you write iterated uh question why don't you write about this why don't you public like

about this why don't you public like about this why don't you public like publicize content why don't you you know

publicize content why don't you you know publicize content why don't you you know put your knowledge out there let other

put your knowledge out there let other put your knowledge out there let other people actually see you know why you do

people actually see you know why you do people actually see you know why you do what you do and I never really read into

what you do and I never really read into what you do and I never really read into it until one day I was sitting down with

it until one day I was sitting down with it until one day I was sitting down with some people and they said let's let's

some people and they said let's let's some people and they said let's let's try and convince you to do this there's

try and convince you to do this there's try and convince you to do this there's no content out there people like us that

no content out there people like us that no content out there people like us that have known a long time have the

have known a long time have the have known a long time have the opportunity of obviously learning from

opportunity of obviously learning from opportunity of obviously learning from you and asking questions directly but

you and asking questions directly but you and asking questions directly but what about all the people who don't know what about all the people who don't know what about all the people who don't know who you are or don't know where to look

who you are or don't know where to look who you are or don't know where to look for information and they they did

for information and they they did for information and they they did convince me and I had a lot of support

convince me and I had a lot of support convince me and I had a lot of support in going into it so I started off and

in going into it so I started off and in going into it so I started off and over the last year we've really

over the last year we've really over the last year we've really developed the content to make it more

developed the content to make it more developed the content to make it more professional more specific more

professional more specific more professional more specific more actionable we've dived into some really

actionable we've dived into some really actionable we've dived into some really challenging conversations you know we

challenging conversations you know we challenging conversations you know we we've gone beyond just articles we've

we've gone beyond just articles we've we've gone beyond just articles we've bed into question and answer formats

bed into question and answer formats bed into question and answer formats with other thought leaders to showcas

with other thought leaders to showcas with other thought leaders to showcas them uh we did it our first VIP industry

them uh we did it our first VIP industry them uh we did it our first VIP industry analysis um where we showcased our

analysis um where we showcased our analysis um where we showcased our findings across the world of

findings across the world of findings across the world of VIP um and it's really been it's been

VIP um and it's really been it's been VIP um and it's really been it's been amazing and yes we we we had obstacles

amazing and yes we we we had obstacles amazing and yes we we we had obstacles and we had a few people disgruntled

and we had a few people disgruntled and we had a few people disgruntled people message us and message me

people message us and message me people message us and message me directly going what the hell are you directly going what the hell are you directly going what the hell are you doing and I get it I mean disrupt the

doing and I get it I mean disrupt the doing and I get it I mean disrupt the status quo and go against the grain

status quo and go against the grain status quo and go against the grain because the rule of VIP and I came from

because the rule of VIP and I came from because the rule of VIP and I came from that mindset as well when I was in Ault

that mindset as well when I was in Ault that mindset as well when I was in Ault management and I was working for

management and I was working for management and I was working for operators you are told you do not talk

operators you are told you do not talk operators you are told you do not talk about how we do things don't share our

about how we do things don't share our about how we do things don't share our secrets don't share the strategies and

secrets don't share the strategies and secrets don't share the strategies and the reality of it is that working for

the reality of it is that working for the reality of it is that working for myself and being in Consulting now for

myself and being in Consulting now for myself and being in Consulting now for the last three years I don't fall within

the last three years I don't fall within the last three years I don't fall within those rules to be honest I can write box

those rules to be honest I can write box those rules to be honest I can write box whatever I want and I'm accountable to

whatever I want and I'm accountable to whatever I want and I'm accountable to myself um of course at the end of the

myself um of course at the end of the myself um of course at the end of the day there are certain areas of VIP that

day there are certain areas of VIP that day there are certain areas of VIP that I don't Venture into discussing not in a

I don't Venture into discussing not in a I don't Venture into discussing not in a written format at least um and that's

written format at least um and that's written format at least um and that's because there's a lot that happens in

because there's a lot that happens in because there's a lot that happens in the VIP space and it's funny to look

the VIP space and it's funny to look the VIP space and it's funny to look back now at those people that did

back now at those people that did back now at those people that did message what the hell are you doing and

message what the hell are you doing and message what the hell are you doing and why are you talking about this and you

why are you talking about this and you why are you talking about this and you know this isn't how we act in VIP

know this isn't how we act in VIP know this isn't how we act in VIP today majority of those haters have come

today majority of those haters have come today majority of those haters have come around now supporters and subscribers to

around now supporters and subscribers to around now supporters and subscribers to our newsletter and some of them even DM

our newsletter and some of them even DM our newsletter and some of them even DM me with questions and topics to discuss

me with questions and topics to discuss me with questions and topics to discuss so I suppose the biggest takeaway from

so I suppose the biggest takeaway from so I suppose the biggest takeaway from having this having this having this resistant uh start from a few select

resistant uh start from a few select resistant uh start from a few select individuals is if you present some

individuals is if you present some individuals is if you present some actionable value not just content for

actionable value not just content for actionable value not just content for the sake of creating content but

the sake of creating content but the sake of creating content but actually producing content that converts

actually producing content that converts actually producing content that converts or has ACT

or has ACT or has ACT takeaways people will inevitably come

takeaways people will inevitably come takeaways people will inevitably come around and that's exactly what we found

around and that's exactly what we found around and that's exactly what we found and I suppose it just goes to show you

and I suppose it just goes to show you and I suppose it just goes to show you patient enough and you're consistent and

patient enough and you're consistent and patient enough and you're consistent and you endure through the resistance um it

you endure through the resistance um it you endure through the resistance um it really can contribute and those people

really can contribute and those people really can contribute and those people were initially against you actually

were initially against you actually were initially against you actually start supporting you and that's exactly

start supporting you and that's exactly start supporting you and that's exactly the situation that we're in today yeah

the situation that we're in today yeah the situation that we're in today yeah that's amazing to hear I mean I know

that's amazing to hear I mean I know that's amazing to hear I mean I know that when we wanted to do this podcast

that when we wanted to do this podcast that when we wanted to do this podcast it was the same story it was like I just

it was the same story it was like I just it was the same story it was like I just felt there was amazing conversation

felt there was amazing conversation felt there was amazing conversation happening about affiliate marketing that

happening about affiliate marketing that happening about affiliate marketing that were not being written down at all and I

were not being written down at all and I were not being written down at all and I said I want to get this recorded like

said I want to get this recorded like said I want to get this recorded like maybe at least a newsletter and now I'm

maybe at least a newsletter and now I'm maybe at least a newsletter and now I'm kind of doing both so if you see me kind

kind of doing both so if you see me kind kind of doing both so if you see me kind of copying a a couple pointers uh from

of copying a a couple pointers uh from of copying a a couple pointers uh from your newsletter it's uh I'm guilty but

your newsletter it's uh I'm guilty but your newsletter it's uh I'm guilty but it's a it's an awesome story and um

it's a it's an awesome story and um it's a it's an awesome story and um funny enough uh I've been actually

funny enough uh I've been actually funny enough uh I've been actually talking to other people that do this

talking to other people that do this talking to other people that do this type of thought leadership in the SEO

type of thought leadership in the SEO type of thought leadership in the SEO space and I believe if you copy these

space and I believe if you copy these space and I believe if you copy these Concepts and apply them to to an site

Concepts and apply them to to an site Concepts and apply them to to an site you would actually end up with something you would actually end up with something you would actually end up with something amazing it's kind of like how do you

amazing it's kind of like how do you amazing it's kind of like how do you come up with something different or go

come up with something different or go come up with something different or go down a niche or Rabbit Hole where no

down a niche or Rabbit Hole where no down a niche or Rabbit Hole where no one's covering the topic but you know

one's covering the topic but you know one's covering the topic but you know you can just kind of dig and dig and

you can just kind of dig and dig and you can just kind of dig and dig and start sharing

start sharing start sharing insights yeah 100% I mean this year I

insights yeah 100% I mean this year I insights yeah 100% I mean this year I think more so than many other years think more so than many other years think more so than many other years we've seen a lot of people come out and

we've seen a lot of people come out and we've seen a lot of people come out and start sharing knowledge and sharing

start sharing knowledge and sharing start sharing knowledge and sharing content and I I really believe that

content and I I really believe that content and I I really believe that people people people now are finding that voice and and

now are finding that voice and and now are finding that voice and and finding that I would say confidence to

finding that I would say confidence to finding that I would say confidence to go out there and really present themsel

go out there and really present themsel go out there and really present themsel as a thought leader as an expert in

as a thought leader as an expert in as a thought leader as an expert in particular Fields more Consultants are

particular Fields more Consultants are particular Fields more Consultants are coming out as well and those

coming out as well and those coming out as well and those Independents that don't fall under

Independents that don't fall under Independents that don't fall under organizations or under corporate guides

organizations or under corporate guides organizations or under corporate guides that tell you what you can and can't that tell you what you can and can't that tell you what you can and can't publish um and I think it resulted in a

publish um and I think it resulted in a publish um and I think it resulted in a huge amount of new content especially on

huge amount of new content especially on huge amount of new content especially on LinkedIn being released independent

LinkedIn being released independent LinkedIn being released independent podcasts and blogs and

podcasts and blogs and podcasts and blogs and newsletters released off LinkedIn as

newsletters released off LinkedIn as newsletters released off LinkedIn as well and it's it's good to see this

well and it's it's good to see this well and it's it's good to see this trend has started become a bit more

trend has started become a bit more trend has started become a bit more popular um those that are starting out I

popular um those that are starting out I popular um those that are starting out I believe that should have the platform to

believe that should have the platform to believe that should have the platform to at least ask questions or come to those

at least ask questions or come to those at least ask questions or come to those that are a bit more established and have

that are a bit more established and have that are a bit more established and have gone through the ringers and and gone

gone through the ringers and and gone gone through the ringers and and gone through the pain points to to educate so

through the pain points to to educate so through the pain points to to educate so that we keep the content consistent um

that we keep the content consistent um that we keep the content consistent um there have been a lot of people that are

there have been a lot of people that are there have been a lot of people that are now just AI generating content as well

now just AI generating content as well now just AI generating content as well which I think diminishes the effort that

which I think diminishes the effort that which I think diminishes the effort that some of us are making um and I think

some of us are making um and I think some of us are making um and I think that's where people also need with

that's where people also need with that's where people also need with caution is that if you're just going to

caution is that if you're just going to caution is that if you're just going to chat GPT something especially on an

chat GPT something especially on an chat GPT something especially on an outdated model uh where the information

outdated model uh where the information outdated model uh where the information hasn't caught up or it's it's no longer

hasn't caught up or it's it's no longer hasn't caught up or it's it's no longer relevant I mean you're going to diminish

relevant I mean you're going to diminish relevant I mean you're going to diminish your own personal brand and I think a

your own personal brand and I think a your own personal brand and I think a big portion coming from Affiliates or

big portion coming from Affiliates or big portion coming from Affiliates or marketing or even VIP that brand and

marketing or even VIP that brand and marketing or even VIP that brand and that Persona is something massive and

that Persona is something massive and that Persona is something massive and you can spend years

you can spend years you can spend years building that image of who you are and

building that image of who you are and building that image of who you are and that reputation be gone in a couple

that reputation be gone in a couple that reputation be gone in a couple minutes if you decide to try and take a

minutes if you decide to try and take a minutes if you decide to try and take a short okay now I've got my first rabbit

short okay now I've got my first rabbit short okay now I've got my first rabbit hole question because it's like as you

hole question because it's like as you hole question because it's like as you talk it's like I come up with more ideas

talk it's like I come up with more ideas talk it's like I come up with more ideas so so in the AI space I mean there's a

so so in the AI space I mean there's a so so in the AI space I mean there's a lot of automation there's automation of

lot of automation there's automation of lot of automation there's automation of content and there's now automation of

content and there's now automation of content and there's now automation of Outreach and I'm assuming that in the

Outreach and I'm assuming that in the Outreach and I'm assuming that in the VIP space you don't want to do that like

VIP space you don't want to do that like VIP space you don't want to do that like I think for me personally when someone

I think for me personally when someone I think for me personally when someone uh pitches me a LinkedIn DM or an email

uh pitches me a LinkedIn DM or an email uh pitches me a LinkedIn DM or an email and I know it's automated I'm like you

and I know it's automated I'm like you and I know it's automated I'm like you didn't take the time to look at me I

didn't take the time to look at me I didn't take the time to look at me I think this must also Drive vip's nuts if

think this must also Drive vip's nuts if think this must also Drive vip's nuts if they're being fed automated messages so

they're being fed automated messages so they're being fed automated messages so would you say that Automation and Ai and

would you say that Automation and Ai and would you say that Automation and Ai and VIP they they can go together but they

VIP they they can go together but they VIP they they can go together but they mostly don't if they're used in the mostly don't if they're used in the mostly don't if they're used in the wrong way correct I mean when it comes

wrong way correct I mean when it comes wrong way correct I mean when it comes to VIP it's all about

to VIP it's all about to VIP it's all about personalization and the thing is I'm

personalization and the thing is I'm personalization and the thing is I'm going to get some Mass ma or you know

going to get some Mass ma or you know going to get some Mass ma or you know widespread marketing email templated C

widespread marketing email templated C widespread marketing email templated C responses or worst of all actually in

responses or worst of all actually in responses or worst of all actually in the VIP space go a poorly trained

the VIP space go a poorly trained the VIP space go a poorly trained checkbox you know you're going to create

checkbox you know you're going to create checkbox you know you're going to create friction and that's friction that could

friction and that's friction that could friction and that's friction that could be avoided so the reality is when it

be avoided so the reality is when it be avoided so the reality is when it comes to VIP I understand VIP teams are

comes to VIP I understand VIP teams are comes to VIP I understand VIP teams are not always the cheapest to have within

not always the cheapest to have within not always the cheapest to have within an organization but the cost of trying

an organization but the cost of trying an organization but the cost of trying to automate engagement and relationship

to automate engagement and relationship to automate engagement and relationship building you're going to lose a lot more

building you're going to lose a lot more building you're going to lose a lot more than just having someone on the ground

than just having someone on the ground than just having someone on the ground that could manage that that human touch

that could manage that that human touch that could manage that that human touch factor is something that AI is lacking

factor is something that AI is lacking factor is something that AI is lacking it may sound human in how well you

it may sound human in how well you it may sound human in how well you prompt it but the reality of it is that

prompt it but the reality of it is that prompt it but the reality of it is that never going to have an AI be able to

never going to have an AI be able to never going to have an AI be able to reach the same level of empathy emotion

reach the same level of empathy emotion reach the same level of empathy emotion compassion um as an account manager and

compassion um as an account manager and compassion um as an account manager and that human touch is something that I that human touch is something that I that human touch is something that I don't see getting replaced by

don't see getting replaced by don't see getting replaced by AI agreed so the first uh question I've

AI agreed so the first uh question I've AI agreed so the first uh question I've got is what what are most online gaming

got is what what are most online gaming got is what what are most online gaming companies doing wrong when it comes to

companies doing wrong when it comes to companies doing wrong when it comes to their VIP program so I'll go back to the

their VIP program so I'll go back to the their VIP program so I'll go back to the AI theme in that sense we're looking

AI theme in that sense we're looking AI theme in that sense we're looking templated one siiz fits all approaches

templated one siiz fits all approaches templated one siiz fits all approaches becoming more and more common in the VIP

becoming more and more common in the VIP becoming more and more common in the VIP space um part of it is due to the

space um part of it is due to the space um part of it is due to the Simplicity and ease of launching your

Simplicity and ease of launching your Simplicity and ease of launching your own brand through TurnKey Solutions or

own brand through TurnKey Solutions or own brand through TurnKey Solutions or white label Solutions where if you have

white label Solutions where if you have white label Solutions where if you have enough money anyone can have a casino or

enough money anyone can have a casino or enough money anyone can have a casino or a sports book but the problem with that

a sports book but the problem with that a sports book but the problem with that is you still following a very templated

is you still following a very templated is you still following a very templated outof the-box solution where three or

outof the-box solution where three or outof the-box solution where three or four different varied ver versions of

four different varied ver versions of four different varied ver versions of these templates um tiered programs or

these templates um tiered programs or these templates um tiered programs or whatever type of gamified loyalty

whatever type of gamified loyalty whatever type of gamified loyalty programs that you're creating they're

programs that you're creating they're programs that you're creating they're all the same they just look slightly all the same they just look slightly all the same they just look slightly different aesthetically so that generic

different aesthetically so that generic different aesthetically so that generic templated one- siiz fits-all approach is

templated one- siiz fits-all approach is templated one- siiz fits-all approach is something that is becoming a paino it's

something that is becoming a paino it's something that is becoming a paino it's no longer a unique point no matter how

no longer a unique point no matter how no longer a unique point no matter how you dress it up um and by extension with

you dress it up um and by extension with you dress it up um and by extension with that there's very little

that there's very little that there's very little Innovation these days around

Innovation these days around Innovation these days around relationship building there there are

relationship building there there are relationship building there there are some things that we have done right as a

some things that we have done right as a some things that we have done right as a VIP part of the industry um but I think

VIP part of the industry um but I think VIP part of the industry um but I think we've become complacent we're very

we've become complacent we're very we've become complacent we're very comfortable where we are as an industry

comfortable where we are as an industry comfortable where we are as an industry and while igaming has always been at the

and while igaming has always been at the and while igaming has always been at the Forefront of innovation and change and

Forefront of innovation and change and Forefront of innovation and change and developing something new

developing something new developing something new VIP not as forthcoming when it comes to

VIP not as forthcoming when it comes to VIP not as forthcoming when it comes to experimenting or trying something new

experimenting or trying something new experimenting or trying something new and I understand the mentality behind it

and I understand the mentality behind it and I understand the mentality behind it why would you experiment with ultimately

why would you experiment with ultimately why would you experiment with ultimately your most valuable assets but at the end

your most valuable assets but at the end your most valuable assets but at the end of the day you don't have to go

of the day you don't have to go of the day you don't have to go widespread experimentation you can do it

widespread experimentation you can do it widespread experimentation you can do it in incremental deps you can do it in

in incremental deps you can do it in in incremental deps you can do it in test groups versus control groups there

test groups versus control groups there test groups versus control groups there are different ways to go about it but I

are different ways to go about it but I are different ways to go about it but I think where VIP and companies are are

think where VIP and companies are are think where VIP and companies are are going wrong when it comes to managing

going wrong when it comes to managing going wrong when it comes to managing the VIP programs is often you find VIP

the VIP programs is often you find VIP the VIP programs is often you find VIP Opera in a very siloed approach

Opera in a very siloed approach Opera in a very siloed approach VIP Works within this bubble it's

VIP Works within this bubble it's VIP Works within this bubble it's isolated and by extension that isolation

isolated and by extension that isolation isolated and by extension that isolation and shields viip from that collaborative

and shields viip from that collaborative and shields viip from that collaborative effort that could actually support them

effort that could actually support them effort that could actually support them with growth and Innovation so where

with growth and Innovation so where with growth and Innovation so where companies could turn that around

companies could turn that around companies could turn that around is take a more collaborative approach

is take a more collaborative approach is take a more collaborative approach get people understanding what VIP means

get people understanding what VIP means get people understanding what VIP means to that business what is VIP if you go

to that business what is VIP if you go to that business what is VIP if you go into most operation and you ask them

into most operation and you ask them into most operation and you ask them what do the VIP Department do they're

what do the VIP Department do they're what do the VIP Department do they're just going to go there manage people just going to go there manage people just going to go there manage people with a lot of money and there's so much

with a lot of money and there's so much with a lot of money and there's so much more to VIP programs than just people

more to VIP programs than just people more to VIP programs than just people with money there's strategy there's

with money there's strategy there's with money there's strategy there's concept there's marketing there's even

concept there's marketing there's even concept there's marketing there's even acquisitional support um retention and

acquisitional support um retention and acquisitional support um retention and so on the list just it's never ending so

so on the list just it's never ending so so on the list just it's never ending so I think if companies can just get out of

I think if companies can just get out of I think if companies can just get out of that complacent position and start

that complacent position and start that complacent position and start taking a bit of risk start experimenting

taking a bit of risk start experimenting taking a bit of risk start experimenting start looking from a more Innovative

start looking from a more Innovative start looking from a more Innovative mindset um we're going to see a lot of

mindset um we're going to see a lot of mindset um we're going to see a lot of change and I think a lot of positive

change and I think a lot of positive change and I think a lot of positive change to what we have today which right

change to what we have today which right change to what we have today which right now everything is starting to look very

now everything is starting to look very now everything is starting to look very similar yeah it's interesting because I

similar yeah it's interesting because I similar yeah it's interesting because I mean it sounds like retention is one of

mean it sounds like retention is one of mean it sounds like retention is one of the keywords that I don't think we talk

the keywords that I don't think we talk the keywords that I don't think we talk enough about even in affiliate marketing

enough about even in affiliate marketing enough about even in affiliate marketing and in igaming I just feel like it's a

and in igaming I just feel like it's a and in igaming I just feel like it's a you know it it's an industry that I

you know it it's an industry that I you know it it's an industry that I believe today is more focused on the

believe today is more focused on the believe today is more focused on the acquisition like everything's about FTD

acquisition like everything's about FTD acquisition like everything's about FTD it's not about player value and I think

it's not about player value and I think it's not about player value and I think the companies that do take the time to

the companies that do take the time to the companies that do take the time to understand retention and personalization

understand retention and personalization understand retention and personalization I mean these are the ones that they're

I mean these are the ones that they're I mean these are the ones that they're they're bigger you know they're the ones

they're bigger you know they're the ones they're bigger you know they're the ones that you know it's the 10% having the

that you know it's the 10% having the that you know it's the 10% having the 80% of the

80% of the 80% of the business and and as well um would you

business and and as well um would you business and and as well um would you say that everyone when they're doing VIP

say that everyone when they're doing VIP say that everyone when they're doing VIP wrong they're kind of put putting them wrong they're kind of put putting them wrong they're kind of put putting them into a single bucket and saying this is

into a single bucket and saying this is into a single bucket and saying this is all of our VIPs but they're not really

all of our VIPs but they're not really all of our VIPs but they're not really doing cohort analysis or analyzing the

doing cohort analysis or analyzing the doing cohort analysis or analyzing the data to be like wait a minute these

data to be like wait a minute these data to be like wait a minute these people are all different so we have to

people are all different so we have to people are all different so we have to treat them treat them treat them differently oh definitely I mean when

differently oh definitely I mean when differently oh definitely I mean when you look at how some operators segment

you look at how some operators segment you look at how some operators segment their player base it's VIP or non-vip

their player base it's VIP or non-vip their player base it's VIP or non-vip but are sub segments to segments and

but are sub segments to segments and but are sub segments to segments and there's a whole other element that has

there's a whole other element that has there's a whole other element that has been popularized or is becoming more

been popularized or is becoming more been popularized or is becoming more popularized from Land base which is

popularized from Land base which is popularized from Land base which is development and Player Development is

development and Player Development is development and Player Development is now at least in the last two years

now at least in the last two years now at least in the last two years digitally become a far bigger Focus um

digitally become a far bigger Focus um digitally become a far bigger Focus um before you had VIP previp non-vip now I

before you had VIP previp non-vip now I before you had VIP previp non-vip now I can tell you several new VIP segments

can tell you several new VIP segments can tell you several new VIP segments that all within that um and so yeah I

that all within that um and so yeah I that all within that um and so yeah I definitely see that they have been shfs

definitely see that they have been shfs definitely see that they have been shfs but again we're talking two three years

but again we're talking two three years but again we're talking two three years the grand schem of how long we've been

the grand schem of how long we've been the grand schem of how long we've been around that's not a a lot of

around that's not a a lot of around that's not a a lot of time yeah and do you study the VIP space

time yeah and do you study the VIP space time yeah and do you study the VIP space and the land base gaming markets and

and the land base gaming markets and and the land base gaming markets and what do you think I gaming can learn

what do you think I gaming can learn what do you think I gaming can learn from what's been established for

from what's been established for from what's been established for basically I mean maybe a 100 years the

basically I mean maybe a 100 years the basically I mean maybe a 100 years the last 50 years Etc I mean I I follow some

last 50 years Etc I mean I I follow some last 50 years Etc I mean I I follow some some very very crucial landbase

some very very crucial landbase some very very crucial landbase figures people like Nick Alito for

figures people like Nick Alito for figures people like Nick Alito for example who's unbelievable at Player

example who's unbelievable at Player example who's unbelievable at Player Development in Vegas and around the

Development in Vegas and around the Development in Vegas and around the world doing what he does uh exclusively

world doing what he does uh exclusively world doing what he does uh exclusively for 30 plus years um when you look at

for 30 plus years um when you look at for 30 plus years um when you look at landbased gaming I mean I keep a finger

landbased gaming I mean I keep a finger landbased gaming I mean I keep a finger on the pulse uh and that's because there

on the pulse uh and that's because there on the pulse uh and that's because there are similarities that you're finding

are similarities that you're finding are similarities that you're finding have migrated into the digital space

have migrated into the digital space have migrated into the digital space Player Development being one of them

Player Development being one of them Player Development being one of them that we've seen in the last two three that we've seen in the last two three that we've seen in the last two three years but when you start looking VIP

years but when you start looking VIP years but when you start looking VIP profiling there's no real difference

profiling there's no real difference profiling there's no real difference other than um trying to create a profile

other than um trying to create a profile other than um trying to create a profile for your environment if you look at

for your environment if you look at for your environment if you look at landbase and you go to C or MGM or any

landbase and you go to C or MGM or any landbase and you go to C or MGM or any of those I mean the con at the hotel

of those I mean the con at the hotel of those I mean the con at the hotel knows exactly what pillar you like they

knows exactly what pillar you like they knows exactly what pillar you like they know what thread count your sheet needs

know what thread count your sheet needs know what thread count your sheet needs to be what water should be waiting in

to be what water should be waiting in to be what water should be waiting in the fridge I mean that information is

the fridge I mean that information is the fridge I mean that information is recorded on their system it's not just

recorded on their system it's not just recorded on their system it's not just coincidental that as a VIP you show up

coincidental that as a VIP you show up coincidental that as a VIP you show up your room is ready and everything you

your room is ready and everything you your room is ready and everything you like is waiting for you um they they

like is waiting for you um they they like is waiting for you um they they even may have recorded what temperature

even may have recorded what temperature even may have recorded what temperature to put the thermostat on and these are

to put the thermostat on and these are to put the thermostat on and these are all different indicators we see in

all different indicators we see in all different indicators we see in online what likeslikes preferences

online what likeslikes preferences online what likeslikes preferences gaming habits gaming habits gaming habits frequencies we recall as much as we can

frequencies we recall as much as we can frequencies we recall as much as we can I think when it comes to ey gaming

I think when it comes to ey gaming I think when it comes to ey gaming compared to landbase we have more data

compared to landbase we have more data compared to landbase we have more data um and we're able to to get on those

um and we're able to to get on those um and we're able to to get on those touch points but landbase has

touch points but landbase has touch points but landbase has pioneered for a big extent you know

pioneered for a big extent you know pioneered for a big extent you know gifting Hospitality to a level that I

gifting Hospitality to a level that I gifting Hospitality to a level that I gaming can't quite compete with we don't

gaming can't quite compete with we don't gaming can't quite compete with we don't have the brick and mortar that we can

have the brick and mortar that we can have the brick and mortar that we can take the screen divide away from that

take the screen divide away from that take the screen divide away from that human fact and that face Toof face is

human fact and that face Toof face is human fact and that face Toof face is something that I gaming will never be

something that I gaming will never be something that I gaming will never be able to suppose to to landbase but when

able to suppose to to landbase but when able to suppose to to landbase but when we do do Hospitality there are ways in

we do do Hospitality there are ways in we do do Hospitality there are ways in which to build relationships that I

which to build relationships that I which to build relationships that I think can go beyond landbase landbase is

think can go beyond landbase landbase is think can go beyond landbase landbase is confined generally to very specific

confined generally to very specific confined generally to very specific Focus areas or to properties um where

Focus areas or to properties um where Focus areas or to properties um where you don't venture too far

you don't venture too far you don't venture too far um unless you're events like for

um unless you're events like for um unless you're events like for instance Formula 1 in Vegas example um

instance Formula 1 in Vegas example um instance Formula 1 in Vegas example um but with I gaming I think both

but with I gaming I think both but with I gaming I think both Industries land Bas and I gaming can

Industries land Bas and I gaming can Industries land Bas and I gaming can learn from each other I think the

learn from each other I think the learn from each other I think the biggest challenge there is that we don't biggest challenge there is that we don't biggest challenge there is that we don't talk to each other that much um you do

talk to each other that much um you do talk to each other that much um you do have landbase of course Adventure into

have landbase of course Adventure into have landbase of course Adventure into online we've seen uh in the North

online we've seen uh in the North online we've seen uh in the North American Market as well as established

American Market as well as established American Market as well as established regions like the UK where the brick and

regions like the UK where the brick and regions like the UK where the brick and mortar shops are your digital companies

mortar shops are your digital companies mortar shops are your digital companies that we all know um but I think we could

that we all know um but I think we could that we all know um but I think we could do more to interact with each other and

do more to interact with each other and do more to interact with each other and brainstorm and try and come together to

brainstorm and try and come together to brainstorm and try and come together to support each Focus

support each Focus support each Focus area and then of course I I want to

area and then of course I I want to area and then of course I I want to always bring in the affiliate discussion

always bring in the affiliate discussion always bring in the affiliate discussion so do you think Affiliates could be a

so do you think Affiliates could be a so do you think Affiliates could be a part of this VIP ecosystem uh first in

part of this VIP ecosystem uh first in part of this VIP ecosystem uh first in the re acquisition side where it's like

the re acquisition side where it's like the re acquisition side where it's like is there certain content they could

is there certain content they could is there certain content they could create that would attract more VIP

create that would attract more VIP create that would attract more VIP and then the secondary part which is not

and then the secondary part which is not and then the secondary part which is not all affiliate sites are focused on

all affiliate sites are focused on all affiliate sites are focused on retention but I think the ones that come

retention but I think the ones that come retention but I think the ones that come to mind are forums and communi so do you

to mind are forums and communi so do you to mind are forums and communi so do you think both of these are still kind of

think both of these are still kind of think both of these are still kind of relevant to to say like look affiliate

relevant to to say like look affiliate relevant to to say like look affiliate and VIP they they do go hand inand it's

and VIP they they do go hand inand it's and VIP they they do go hand inand it's just a matter of maybe educating

just a matter of maybe educating just a matter of maybe educating Affiliates of how they can

Affiliates of how they can Affiliates of how they can help yeah absolutely I think if we're

help yeah absolutely I think if we're help yeah absolutely I think if we're looking in the digital sense of VIP

looking in the digital sense of VIP looking in the digital sense of VIP affiliation and VIP

affiliation and VIP affiliation and VIP the only real

the only real the only real VIP affiliate I'll probably get in

VIP affiliate I'll probably get in VIP affiliate I'll probably get in trouble for saying this but the only trouble for saying this but the only trouble for saying this but the only real VIP affiliate is a junket someone

real VIP affiliate is a junket someone real VIP affiliate is a junket someone with a black book knows their players

with a black book knows their players with a black book knows their players that has gone out MET these people

that has gone out MET these people that has gone out MET these people exactly what you would find in vas or

exactly what you would find in vas or exactly what you would find in vas or maau um or Philippines and all those

maau um or Philippines and all those maau um or Philippines and all those areas I mean Singapore and so on they're

areas I mean Singapore and so on they're areas I mean Singapore and so on they're renowned for junkets but when you look

renowned for junkets but when you look renowned for junkets but when you look at your digital affiliation in the sense

at your digital affiliation in the sense at your digital affiliation in the sense that I gaming knows I I would say

that I gaming knows I I would say that I gaming knows I I would say digital digital digital Affiliates it's become I would say quite

Affiliates it's become I would say quite Affiliates it's become I would say quite static over the years we have our review

static over the years we have our review static over the years we have our review websites and we have our forums and so

websites and we have our forums and so websites and we have our forums and so on but there hasn't been much pioneering

on but there hasn't been much pioneering on but there hasn't been much pioneering towards

towards towards VIP forums are great but VIPs aren't on

VIP forums are great but VIPs aren't on VIP forums are great but VIPs aren't on forums and having review websites

forums and having review websites forums and having review websites available is great but VIPs aren't

available is great but VIPs aren't available is great but VIPs aren't looking for those type of reviews and

looking for those type of reviews and looking for those type of reviews and looking for something more specific

looking for something more specific looking for something more specific looking for actionable

looking for actionable looking for actionable representation of VIP programs and I

representation of VIP programs and I representation of VIP programs and I think this is where the line gets a

think this is where the line gets a think this is where the line gets a little bit blurry in that as an

little bit blurry in that as an little bit blurry in that as an affiliate we obviously look at it from a

affiliate we obviously look at it from a affiliate we obviously look at it from a commercial exercise the person that

commercial exercise the person that commercial exercise the person that promotes the hardest or want to rank the

promotes the hardest or want to rank the promotes the hardest or want to rank the highest will the most but the reality is

highest will the most but the reality is highest will the most but the reality is if we're not going to fairly rank based

if we're not going to fairly rank based if we're not going to fairly rank based on on on capability rather than who pay the most

capability rather than who pay the most capability rather than who pay the most then it comes down to risking your

then it comes down to risking your then it comes down to risking your reputation as a reputable

reputation as a reputable reputation as a reputable Affiliates because you're no longer

Affiliates because you're no longer Affiliates because you're no longer presenting value we need to present that

presenting value we need to present that presenting value we need to present that value with actionable insights into thep

value with actionable insights into thep value with actionable insights into thep benefits unique selling points and we

benefits unique selling points and we benefits unique selling points and we need to State sax it's it's not a sales

need to State sax it's it's not a sales need to State sax it's it's not a sales pitch um and it's the easiest way to

pitch um and it's the easiest way to pitch um and it's the easiest way to destroy your VIP Network or credibility

destroy your VIP Network or credibility destroy your VIP Network or credibility is by Leading these V VIP players that

is by Leading these V VIP players that is by Leading these V VIP players that do come across your affiliate site into

do come across your affiliate site into do come across your affiliate site into a VIP program that is subpar because

a VIP program that is subpar because a VIP program that is subpar because we've promoted it as amazing and

we've promoted it as amazing and we've promoted it as amazing and excellent and that's because they rank

excellent and that's because they rank excellent and that's because they rank the highest Etc um now this VIP goes and

the highest Etc um now this VIP goes and the highest Etc um now this VIP goes and spend tens if not hundreds of thousands

spend tens if not hundreds of thousands spend tens if not hundreds of thousands only to leave this brand

only to leave this brand only to leave this brand disappointed now someone's got to be

disappointed now someone's got to be disappointed now someone's got to be held accountable for that and the VIP

held accountable for that and the VIP held accountable for that and the VIP standpoint is going to hold someone

standpoint is going to hold someone standpoint is going to hold someone accountable and the blame will extend

accountable and the blame will extend accountable and the blame will extend inevitably beyond the

inevitably beyond the inevitably beyond the operator who directed me to this VIP PR

operator who directed me to this VIP PR operator who directed me to this VIP PR and that's where the blame will shift and that's where the blame will shift and that's where the blame will shift onto that affiliate and that's that's

onto that affiliate and that's that's onto that affiliate and that's that's you losing that VIP traffic Source

you losing that VIP traffic Source you losing that VIP traffic Source forever and I think this is where

forever and I think this is where forever and I think this is where Affiliates really need to be more

Affiliates really need to be more Affiliates really need to be more careful we need to understand what we're

careful we need to understand what we're careful we need to understand what we're promoting not just promote for the

promoting not just promote for the promoting not just promote for the segment and ties to our first point segment and ties to our first point segment and ties to our first point don't create content for the sake of

don't create content for the sake of don't create content for the sake of creating content and I think once we get

creating content and I think once we get creating content and I think once we get that point right Affiliates will start

that point right Affiliates will start that point right Affiliates will start seeing far greater buyer to a higher

seeing far greater buyer to a higher seeing far greater buyer to a higher value lead because content that is being

value lead because content that is being value lead because content that is being promoted or the information that is

promoted or the information that is promoted or the information that is being shared is presenting that value

being shared is presenting that value being shared is presenting that value propos GPS are looking for yeah that

propos GPS are looking for yeah that propos GPS are looking for yeah that makes sense I mean I've got like more

makes sense I mean I've got like more makes sense I mean I've got like more notes and ideas that um one thing I

notes and ideas that um one thing I notes and ideas that um one thing I think some Affiliates do well is that

think some Affiliates do well is that think some Affiliates do well is that they some of them will basically say hey

they some of them will basically say hey they some of them will basically say hey when you're going to this new casino or

when you're going to this new casino or when you're going to this new casino or this any like one that's been around for

this any like one that's been around for this any like one that's been around for 10 years this is what to expect this is

10 years this is what to expect this is 10 years this is what to expect this is the deposit methods this is they

the deposit methods this is they the deposit methods this is they actually share screenshots of going actually share screenshots of going actually share screenshots of going through that experience and maybe that's

through that experience and maybe that's through that experience and maybe that's something that more Affiliates could do something that more Affiliates could do something that more Affiliates could do to say hey this program doesn't just

to say hey this program doesn't just to say hey this program doesn't just have a VIP program this is what makes

have a VIP program this is what makes have a VIP program this is what makes them different um do you think that's

them different um do you think that's them different um do you think that's something that's like at least something

something that's like at least something something that's like at least something that Affiliates could do a bit more of

that Affiliates could do a bit more of that Affiliates could do a bit more of definitely don't think enough

definitely don't think enough definitely don't think enough transparent review of the processes that

transparent review of the processes that transparent review of the processes that players are going to go through the VIPs

players are going to go through the VIPs players are going to go through the VIPs want simple they want efficient they

want simple they want efficient they want simple they want efficient they want to know that there is as little

want to know that there is as little want to know that there is as little disrupt disruption to their game play

disrupt disruption to their game play disrupt disruption to their game play transactions Etc and if we could

transactions Etc and if we could transactions Etc and if we could showcase that without VIPs having to go

showcase that without VIPs having to go showcase that without VIPs having to go through the process of registering an

through the process of registering an through the process of registering an account and finding out for themselves I

account and finding out for themselves I account and finding out for themselves I I think we would see a far higher

I think we would see a far higher I think we would see a far higher conversion those type of of promoting of

conversion those type of of promoting of conversion those type of of promoting of VIP programs or just brands in general

VIP programs or just brands in general VIP programs or just brands in general and would you say that VIP players when

and would you say that VIP players when and would you say that VIP players when they are on affiliate sites basically

they are on affiliate sites basically they are on affiliate sites basically using them as a Discovery Channel to

using them as a Discovery Channel to using them as a Discovery Channel to find these casinos do you think they

find these casinos do you think they find these casinos do you think they care about who the owners of those

care about who the owners of those care about who the owners of those websites are who are the authors like

websites are who are the authors like websites are who are the authors like some affiliate sites they don't have a

some affiliate sites they don't have a some affiliate sites they don't have a lot of personal brand and I'm just

lot of personal brand and I'm just lot of personal brand and I'm just wondering if uh VIP players actually

wondering if uh VIP players actually wondering if uh VIP players actually care about this a bit more like like

care about this a bit more like like care about this a bit more like like when they actually end up to the casino

when they actually end up to the casino when they actually end up to the casino they take it a step further like well they take it a step further like well they take it a step further like well who even owns this

who even owns this who even owns this casino I don't think too many VIPs go

casino I don't think too many VIPs go casino I don't think too many VIPs go that granula I mean there are some VIPs

that granula I mean there are some VIPs that granula I mean there are some VIPs that en joining more VIP cented brands

that en joining more VIP cented brands that en joining more VIP cented brands do get to meet the owners and do get to

do get to meet the owners and do get to do get to meet the owners and do get to rub shoulders with the executive team

rub shoulders with the executive team rub shoulders with the executive team Etc and and that's because those dips

Etc and and that's because those dips Etc and and that's because those dips warrant that um often what you find is

warrant that um often what you find is warrant that um often what you find is the differentiating factor between those

the differentiating factor between those the differentiating factor between those companies who understand VIP and those

companies who understand VIP and those companies who understand VIP and those who don't and just present as VIP is

who don't and just present as VIP is who don't and just present as VIP is that ownership understands that if I can

that ownership understands that if I can that ownership understands that if I can make myself available the VIP

make myself available the VIP make myself available the VIP understands that the entire organization

understands that the entire organization understands that the entire organization is invested in them not just a

is invested in them not just a is invested in them not just a designated department or a point of

designated department or a point of designated department or a point of contact and it's easier not many owners

contact and it's easier not many owners contact and it's easier not many owners want to get involved and not many owners

want to get involved and not many owners want to get involved and not many owners do give out their business cards or

do give out their business cards or do give out their business cards or contact information and that's because

contact information and that's because contact information and that's because VIPs can be a lot of work to manage but

VIPs can be a lot of work to manage but VIPs can be a lot of work to manage but I don't believe VIPs go Artic well I'm

I don't believe VIPs go Artic well I'm I don't believe VIPs go Artic well I'm not going to join this brand unless I

not going to join this brand unless I not going to join this brand unless I know who the owner is uh it's a nice to

know who the owner is uh it's a nice to know who the owner is uh it's a nice to have and it's a very powerful extra if

have and it's a very powerful extra if have and it's a very powerful extra if you do it right but I don't think it's

you do it right but I don't think it's you do it right but I don't think it's make or break attractive VIP and do you

make or break attractive VIP and do you make or break attractive VIP and do you think that Affiliates could do a bit

think that Affiliates could do a bit think that Affiliates could do a bit more when it comes to first- party data

more when it comes to first- party data more when it comes to first- party data to say okay rather than click out and

to say okay rather than click out and to say okay rather than click out and then you go to the casino it could be

then you go to the casino it could be then you go to the casino it could be like look what are you looking for in a

like look what are you looking for in a like look what are you looking for in a casino it's like maybe there's a form or

casino it's like maybe there's a form or casino it's like maybe there's a form or more than a newsletter a newsletter is

more than a newsletter a newsletter is more than a newsletter a newsletter is like at least you've got their email but

like at least you've got their email but like at least you've got their email but maybe there's a for that you know

maybe there's a for that you know maybe there's a for that you know Affiliates could say well hey how how do

Affiliates could say well hey how how do Affiliates could say well hey how how do I get to know my own players better th

I get to know my own players better th I get to know my own players better th this is a conversation I've been having

this is a conversation I've been having this is a conversation I've been having for a couple of months with a few

for a couple of months with a few for a couple of months with a few individuals around the concept of a

individuals around the concept of a individuals around the concept of a conci and we seeing this happen more and

conci and we seeing this happen more and conci and we seeing this happen more and more in uh the industry uh with

more in uh the industry uh with more in uh the industry uh with companies like VIP stake and uh hero I

companies like VIP stake and uh hero I companies like VIP stake and uh hero I think it was that's launched their own think it was that's launched their own think it was that's launched their own VIP Services uh cono services and I

VIP Services uh cono services and I VIP Services uh cono services and I think this is going to be the next

think this is going to be the next think this is going to be the next generation of affiliation in the VIP

generation of affiliation in the VIP generation of affiliation in the VIP space now the risk factor here is that

space now the risk factor here is that space now the risk factor here is that people just try to commercialize it and

people just try to commercialize it and people just try to commercialize it and it defeats the whole point of con which

it defeats the whole point of con which it defeats the whole point of con which again goes down to personalization and

again goes down to personalization and again goes down to personalization and getting to know your audience um I don't

getting to know your audience um I don't getting to know your audience um I don't believe Affiliates know Their audience

believe Affiliates know Their audience believe Affiliates know Their audience enough um that leads to a breakdown in

enough um that leads to a breakdown in enough um that leads to a breakdown in trying to refer or direct that traffic

trying to refer or direct that traffic trying to refer or direct that traffic to the right source and that is

to the right source and that is to the right source and that is something I believe over the next two

something I believe over the next two something I believe over the next two three years we're going to see change

three years we're going to see change three years we're going to see change quite a bit because you know with the

quite a bit because you know with the quite a bit because you know with the impacts of things like Google and SEO

impacts of things like Google and SEO impacts of things like Google and SEO and things we're going to need to

and things we're going to need to and things we're going to need to innovate we're going to need to change

innovate we're going to need to change innovate we're going to need to change how we're presenting ourselves um and

how we're presenting ourselves um and how we're presenting ourselves um and these kind of con or recommendation or

these kind of con or recommendation or these kind of con or recommendation or VIP reviews are going to become pivot

VIP reviews are going to become pivot VIP reviews are going to become pivot to diversifying the offering that exists

to diversifying the offering that exists to diversifying the offering that exists right now yeah that almost leads right

right now yeah that almost leads right right now yeah that almost leads right to my next question which is I've notice

to my next question which is I've notice to my next question which is I've notice some sites that I've heard that they can

some sites that I've heard that they can some sites that I've heard that they can command like higher CPAs and we're

command like higher CPAs and we're command like higher CPAs and we're talking about top ranking websites but

talking about top ranking websites but talking about top ranking websites but it's not like they just rank for any it's not like they just rank for any it's not like they just rank for any keyword they're very specific at what

keyword they're very specific at what keyword they're very specific at what they do and I just think that because

they do and I just think that because they do and I just think that because they put so much intent on the product

they put so much intent on the product they put so much intent on the product which is the design the user experience

which is the design the user experience which is the design the user experience the content I'm just wondering if this

the content I'm just wondering if this the content I'm just wondering if this is kind of like an extension of VIP

is kind of like an extension of VIP is kind of like an extension of VIP where it's like look the it's almost

where it's like look the it's almost where it's like look the it's almost like they're talking to every player but

like they're talking to every player but like they're talking to every player but the more quality of a site you have I

the more quality of a site you have I the more quality of a site you have I think this kind of is just going to lead

think this kind of is just going to lead think this kind of is just going to lead to more value and I think Google's to more value and I think Google's to more value and I think Google's actually forcing Affiliates to up their

actually forcing Affiliates to up their actually forcing Affiliates to up their game when it comes to Quality so I'm game when it comes to Quality so I'm game when it comes to Quality so I'm just wondering if you think the the

just wondering if you think the the just wondering if you think the the concept of having a better product as an

concept of having a better product as an concept of having a better product as an affiliate site will just naturally lead

affiliate site will just naturally lead affiliate site will just naturally lead to like better player values uh I think

to like better player values uh I think to like better player values uh I think it's a direct extension I mean if you

it's a direct extension I mean if you it's a direct extension I mean if you presenting as this elevated website cly

presenting as this elevated website cly presenting as this elevated website cly shows time money and consideration put

shows time money and consideration put shows time money and consideration put into building this website that youve

into building this website that youve into building this website that youve considered all the questions without

considered all the questions without considered all the questions without having to go through the process the

having to go through the process the having to go through the process the player submitting something through a

player submitting something through a player submitting something through a forum or trying to go and navigate FAQ

forum or trying to go and navigate FAQ forum or trying to go and navigate FAQ or whatever it is if you go through the

or whatever it is if you go through the or whatever it is if you go through the process of giving rather in this case

process of giving rather in this case process of giving rather in this case not so much more but more accurate and

not so much more but more accurate and not so much more but more accurate and more targeted and presented in a way

more targeted and presented in a way more targeted and presented in a way that not only looks professional but is

that not only looks professional but is that not only looks professional but is relevant that's going to attract that

relevant that's going to attract that relevant that's going to attract that higher value VIPs want to

higher value VIPs want to higher value VIPs want to know like in their operator

know like in their operator know like in their operator relationship time and investment needs

relationship time and investment needs relationship time and investment needs to be worthwhile for me um and if they

to be worthwhile for me um and if they to be worthwhile for me um and if they go into an affiliate website where this

go into an affiliate website where this go into an affiliate website where this affiliate providing them with more data

affiliate providing them with more data affiliate providing them with more data more insights more support to make the

more insights more support to make the more insights more support to make the most informed and accurate decision When

most informed and accurate decision When most informed and accurate decision When selecting an operator or specifically a

selecting an operator or specifically a selecting an operator or specifically a VIP program that's going to earn the

VIP program that's going to earn the VIP program that's going to earn the Loyalty of that VIP to keep coming back

Loyalty of that VIP to keep coming back Loyalty of that VIP to keep coming back to that affiliate and go well you know

to that affiliate and go well you know to that affiliate and go well you know what I had a bad user experience with

what I had a bad user experience with what I had a bad user experience with that operator I don't like them I'm

that operator I don't like them I'm that operator I don't like them I'm removing my business I'm going to go

removing my business I'm going to go removing my business I'm going to go back to the source because I had a good

back to the source because I had a good back to the source because I had a good time up until it

time up until it time up until it wasn't and now I'm looking for a change

wasn't and now I'm looking for a change wasn't and now I'm looking for a change now the days of VIPs having one account

now the days of VIPs having one account now the days of VIPs having one account almost non-existent

almost non-existent almost non-existent most VIPs today are playing two three

most VIPs today are playing two three most VIPs today are playing two three sometimes four accounts um and the goal

sometimes four accounts um and the goal sometimes four accounts um and the goal there is you you need to get into the

there is you you need to get into the there is you you need to get into the top three now how do you secure a VIP

top three now how do you secure a VIP top three now how do you secure a VIP coming back you know that even if

coming back you know that even if coming back you know that even if they've converted in one brand they can

they've converted in one brand they can they've converted in one brand they can still convert in a second or a third all

still convert in a second or a third all still convert in a second or a third all you need to do is prove your referral to

you need to do is prove your referral to you need to do is prove your referral to whatever brand it is worked once and it

whatever brand it is worked once and it whatever brand it is worked once and it was correct and that VIP will come back

was correct and that VIP will come back was correct and that VIP will come back and take your second choice and your

and take your second choice and your and take your second choice and your third and fourth and fifth and so on

third and fourth and fifth and so on third and fourth and fifth and so on until they need to or until they're

until they need to or until they're until they need to or until they're comfortable and they don't need to make comfortable and they don't need to make comfortable and they don't need to make any further changes and that that will

any further changes and that that will any further changes and that that will all attribute to that affiliate

all attribute to that affiliate all attribute to that affiliate eventually and this is something for

eventually and this is something for eventually and this is something for philis to consider as well eventually

philis to consider as well eventually philis to consider as well eventually VIP start to centralize their business

VIP start to centralize their business VIP start to centralize their business they may start with four or five

they may start with four or five they may start with four or five different brands but eventually they're

different brands but eventually they're different brands but eventually they're going to consolidate that into their top

going to consolidate that into their top going to consolidate that into their top three or top two so the objective from

three or top two so the objective from three or top two so the objective from the affiliate side not just the operator

the affiliate side not just the operator the affiliate side not just the operator but from the affiliate side you would

but from the affiliate side you would but from the affiliate side you would want to have referred those top two

want to have referred those top two want to have referred those top two Brands to that same player you're not

Brands to that same player you're not Brands to that same player you're not losing 50% of your rev share whatever

losing 50% of your rev share whatever losing 50% of your rev share whatever the agreement you make is um and that

the agreement you make is um and that the agreement you make is um and that can come through having a professional

can come through having a professional can come through having a professional website that actually

website that actually website that actually presents as VIP or at least more

presents as VIP or at least more presents as VIP or at least more elevated and would you say that with all

elevated and would you say that with all elevated and would you say that with all of the thousands of online casinos that

of the thousands of online casinos that of the thousands of online casinos that exist today and we're noticing like

exist today and we're noticing like exist today and we're noticing like we're adding 50 new game I gaming

we're adding 50 new game I gaming we're adding 50 new game I gaming affiliate programs per month which

affiliate programs per month which affiliate programs per month which represents probably about 75 Brands per

represents probably about 75 Brands per represents probably about 75 Brands per month I don't even know what it is but

month I don't even know what it is but month I don't even know what it is but do you think that there's just too much

do you think that there's just too much do you think that there's just too much accessibility for VIPs to land on a not

accessibility for VIPs to land on a not accessibility for VIPs to land on a not just any white label but a white label

just any white label but a white label just any white label but a white label that doesn't have a VIP program like do

that doesn't have a VIP program like do that doesn't have a VIP program like do you think our whole industry is missing

you think our whole industry is missing you think our whole industry is missing out on a lot of Revenue that Affiliates

out on a lot of Revenue that Affiliates out on a lot of Revenue that Affiliates themselves might be sending more traffic

themselves might be sending more traffic themselves might be sending more traffic to these brands that maybe they just

to these brands that maybe they just to these brands that maybe they just don't have that VIP program like should

don't have that VIP program like should don't have that VIP program like should a Affiliates go out of their way and say

a Affiliates go out of their way and say a Affiliates go out of their way and say I need to know what your program is I I need to know what your program is I I need to know what your program is I need to know that if I'm going to send need to know that if I'm going to send need to know that if I'm going to send you even by accident like a whale like

you even by accident like a whale like you even by accident like a whale like that you're going to do the best job of

that you're going to do the best job of that you're going to do the best job of not just converting it but retaining it

not just converting it but retaining it not just converting it but retaining it I think that's where the biggest Gap

I think that's where the biggest Gap I think that's where the biggest Gap right now between operators and

right now between operators and right now between operators and Affiliates is is that there is no

Affiliates is is that there is no Affiliates is is that there is no collaborative effort when it comes to

collaborative effort when it comes to collaborative effort when it comes to explaining and educating from an

explaining and educating from an explaining and educating from an acquisition standpoint what are we going

acquisition standpoint what are we going acquisition standpoint what are we going to do after that conversion what are we

to do after that conversion what are we to do after that conversion what are we going to do once you do bring us the

going to do once you do bring us the going to do once you do bring us the value you know or how are you even going

value you know or how are you even going value you know or how are you even going to convince affiliate to root higher

to convince affiliate to root higher to convince affiliate to root higher value TR to you in the first place um

value TR to you in the first place um value TR to you in the first place um and this is something I think needs to

and this is something I think needs to and this is something I think needs to be worked on

be worked on be worked on overall the questions from the affiliate

overall the questions from the affiliate overall the questions from the affiliate side are not being asked where aren't

side are not being asked where aren't side are not being asked where aren't prying prying prying into what can you offer great you have a

into what can you offer great you have a into what can you offer great you have a VIP program what does that mean

VIP program what does that mean VIP program what does that mean oh cool I can see that you are on some

oh cool I can see that you are on some oh cool I can see that you are on some white label or some tkey that has the

white label or some tkey that has the white label or some tkey that has the same template as several hundred other

same template as several hundred other same template as several hundred other brands Al what are you doing that's

brands Al what are you doing that's brands Al what are you doing that's different besides your gamification that

different besides your gamification that different besides your gamification that I can find at several different brands

I can find at several different brands I can find at several different brands what is your service approach what is

what is your service approach what is what is your service approach what is your account management approach how are

your account management approach how are your account management approach how are you paying your players how quickly are

you paying your players how quickly are you paying your players how quickly are you paying your you paying your you paying your players those type of questions need to

players those type of questions need to players those type of questions need to be asked and it's not just writing a

be asked and it's not just writing a be asked and it's not just writing a review where you ask the operator please

review where you ask the operator please review where you ask the operator please give us information and our content team

give us information and our content team give us information and our content team will edit it to our style and we'll put

will edit it to our style and we'll put will edit it to our style and we'll put it on our website it's a case of let us

it on our website it's a case of let us it on our website it's a case of let us review you with an understanding of what

review you with an understanding of what review you with an understanding of what we're reviewing and let us write an

we're reviewing and let us write an we're reviewing and let us write an honest I would say representation of

honest I would say representation of honest I would say representation of what you actually offer and I've seen

what you actually offer and I've seen what you actually offer and I've seen the even with the conci attempts that

the even with the conci attempts that the even with the conci attempts that are out there I've seen programs not

are out there I've seen programs not are out there I've seen programs not only do I know person but I've also

only do I know person but I've also only do I know person but I've also consulted with that have struggled a lot

consulted with that have struggled a lot consulted with that have struggled a lot in the past being showcased as a top

in the past being showcased as a top in the past being showcased as a top five VIP program in the world and top 10

five VIP program in the world and top 10 five VIP program in the world and top 10 in Europe and I'm like well that's all

in Europe and I'm like well that's all in Europe and I'm like well that's all fair and well but that's a false

fair and well but that's a false fair and well but that's a false representation and the only thing that's

representation and the only thing that's representation and the only thing that's going to happen there it's going to end

going to happen there it's going to end going to happen there it's going to end in a misled VIP that is going to blame

in a misled VIP that is going to blame in a misled VIP that is going to blame the operator for underperformance and

the operator for underperformance and the operator for underperformance and they're going to blame the affiliate for

they're going to blame the affiliate for they're going to blame the affiliate for misleading them um there needs to be

misleading them um there needs to be misleading them um there needs to be better communication and there needs to

better communication and there needs to better communication and there needs to be a better be a better be a better understanding from both the affiliate

understanding from both the affiliate understanding from both the affiliate side and a willingness from the operator

side and a willingness from the operator side and a willingness from the operator side to

side to side to share and I think once right that's

share and I think once right that's share and I think once right that's that's when we'll we'll see an

that's when we'll we'll see an that's when we'll we'll see an improvement yeah I mean we've had some

improvement yeah I mean we've had some improvement yeah I mean we've had some chats where I I've kind of wondered what

chats where I I've kind of wondered what chats where I I've kind of wondered what are the tools that help operators either

are the tools that help operators either are the tools that help operators either make more money or stop them from losing

make more money or stop them from losing make more money or stop them from losing money and when when I think about this

money and when when I think about this money and when when I think about this I'm like wait a minute this is actually I'm like wait a minute this is actually I'm like wait a minute this is actually important for Affiliates because if

important for Affiliates because if important for Affiliates because if we're we've closed a thousand iig gaming

we're we've closed a thousand iig gaming we're we've closed a thousand iig gaming affiliate programs in the last three affiliate programs in the last three affiliate programs in the last three years which probably represents I don't

years which probably represents I don't years which probably represents I don't know 1,500 Brands we can all find those

know 1,500 Brands we can all find those know 1,500 Brands we can all find those Brands it's too many Brands closing

Brands it's too many Brands closing Brands it's too many Brands closing which hurts Affiliates and I think which hurts Affiliates and I think which hurts Affiliates and I think Affiliates need to care more about well

Affiliates need to care more about well Affiliates need to care more about well what's behind your operation Beyond you

what's behind your operation Beyond you what's behind your operation Beyond you know xplatform or a white label like do

know xplatform or a white label like do know xplatform or a white label like do you have these tools so I want to ask

you have these tools so I want to ask you have these tools so I want to ask you what are some of the tools you think

you what are some of the tools you think you what are some of the tools you think that operators should have uh that

that operators should have uh that that operators should have uh that either helps them make more money either helps them make more money either helps them make more money whether it's VIP or anything and on the

whether it's VIP or anything and on the whether it's VIP or anything and on the opposite side of like what would also

opposite side of like what would also opposite side of like what would also stop them from losing

stop them from losing stop them from losing money so I'm going to draw reference

money so I'm going to draw reference money so I'm going to draw reference actually to your article that you

actually to your article that you actually to your article that you released last month uh the too much

released last month uh the too much released last month uh the too much sales article regarding Affiliates um I

sales article regarding Affiliates um I sales article regarding Affiliates um I I agree with the companies that you

I agree with the companies that you I agree with the companies that you highlighted in there with the addition highlighted in there with the addition highlighted in there with the addition of one so I'll go through all those

of one so I'll go through all those of one so I'll go through all those companies um you highlighted in your

companies um you highlighted in your companies um you highlighted in your article Greco which focuses on bonus

article Greco which focuses on bonus article Greco which focuses on bonus abuse and I think what they're doing is

abuse and I think what they're doing is abuse and I think what they're doing is unbel unbel unbel because where are the revenue leaks

because where are the revenue leaks because where are the revenue leaks coming from it's from not understanding

coming from it's from not understanding coming from it's from not understanding bonusing and loyalty so bonus abuse is a

bonusing and loyalty so bonus abuse is a bonusing and loyalty so bonus abuse is a massive component and we see it from

massive component and we see it from massive component and we see it from Warrior lab's side in VIP all the time

Warrior lab's side in VIP all the time Warrior lab's side in VIP all the time this lack of understanding about bonus

this lack of understanding about bonus this lack of understanding about bonus budgeting and how to actually reward

budgeting and how to actually reward budgeting and how to actually reward loyalty without buying

loyalty without buying loyalty without buying loyalty um you know there's a whole

loyalty um you know there's a whole loyalty um you know there's a whole psychological side that we could into on

psychological side that we could into on psychological side that we could into on another day but for the most part bonus

another day but for the most part bonus another day but for the most part bonus abuse is a massive Revenue uh leak

abuse is a massive Revenue uh leak abuse is a massive Revenue uh leak another one from the marketing and

another one from the marketing and another one from the marketing and affiliate side would be

affiliate side would be affiliate side would be ftdx you know with misdirected traffic

ftdx you know with misdirected traffic ftdx you know with misdirected traffic and missed opportunity where it's just

and missed opportunity where it's just and missed opportunity where it's just money on the table you have this amazing

money on the table you have this amazing money on the table you have this amazing website or you're doing something right

website or you're doing something right website or you're doing something right but you're attracting the wrong audience but you're attracting the wrong audience but you're attracting the wrong audience and then you're doing nothing with it so

and then you're doing nothing with it so and then you're doing nothing with it so that's another company Revenue leak not

that's another company Revenue leak not that's another company Revenue leak not from a player perspective from within

from a player perspective from within from a player perspective from within but more from missed

but more from missed but more from missed opportunity then uh I would put my own

opportunity then uh I would put my own opportunity then uh I would put my own business out there with Warrior lab

business out there with Warrior lab business out there with Warrior lab looking from a consultancy standpoint

looking from a consultancy standpoint looking from a consultancy standpoint b2c

b2c b2c optimization and trying to help

optimization and trying to help optimization and trying to help businesses understand how to retain and

businesses understand how to retain and businesses understand how to retain and grow what you have how to collaborate

grow what you have how to collaborate grow what you have how to collaborate better and communicate better not just

better and communicate better not just better and communicate better not just with your players but inter

with your players but inter with your players but inter departmentally so that you can support

departmentally so that you can support departmentally so that you can support each other with different

each other with different each other with different perspectives we're working on an unbel

perspectives we're working on an unbel perspectives we're working on an unbel believable project at the moment with

believable project at the moment with believable project at the moment with acquisition where doing this very inth

acquisition where doing this very inth acquisition where doing this very inth analysis on every acquisition Channel

analysis on every acquisition Channel analysis on every acquisition Channel and tying it into the VIP segment where

and tying it into the VIP segment where and tying it into the VIP segment where we're actually reverse

we're actually reverse we're actually reverse engineering the behavioral traits

engineering the behavioral traits engineering the behavioral traits patterns of an established VIP segment

patterns of an established VIP segment patterns of an established VIP segment and how they originated and this is

and how they originated and this is and how they originated and this is something that is very new I've never

something that is very new I've never something that is very new I've never seen a report or an exercise like this

seen a report or an exercise like this seen a report or an exercise like this done but this is something that even the

done but this is something that even the done but this is something that even the business business business team of couple dozen bi experts didn't

team of couple dozen bi experts didn't team of couple dozen bi experts didn't even even even consider um and then on top of that one

consider um and then on top of that one consider um and then on top of that one company which wasn't on the list which

company which wasn't on the list which company which wasn't on the list which I'll add to the list is

I'll add to the list is I'll add to the list is Blas and the way that Blas has entered

Blas and the way that Blas has entered Blas and the way that Blas has entered the market now providing marketing

the market now providing marketing the market now providing marketing insights it's the perfect balance to not

insights it's the perfect balance to not insights it's the perfect balance to not just Affiliates but operators and

just Affiliates but operators and just Affiliates but operators and acquisition acquisition acquisition teams understand the date and the

teams understand the date and the teams understand the date and the positioning of who their target

positioning of who their target positioning of who their target audiences are as well as their

audiences are as well as their audiences are as well as their competitors and it's where I see it

competitors and it's where I see it competitors and it's where I see it really empowering the affiliate space is

really empowering the affiliate space is really empowering the affiliate space is now you'll have more of an understanding

now you'll have more of an understanding now you'll have more of an understanding on who you're working with the value

on who you're working with the value on who you're working with the value potential of your traffic going in One

potential of your traffic going in One potential of your traffic going in One Direction versus another but at the same

Direction versus another but at the same Direction versus another but at the same time you can start forecasting

time you can start forecasting time you can start forecasting conversions and you can also start to

conversions and you can also start to conversions and you can also start to preempt how much more effort you need to

preempt how much more effort you need to preempt how much more effort you need to put in and who you are targeting and

put in and who you are targeting and put in and who you are targeting and that's the start of what we mentioned

that's the start of what we mentioned that's the start of what we mentioned earlier about Affiliates knowing your

earlier about Affiliates knowing your earlier about Affiliates knowing your audience and knowing your targets um and

audience and knowing your targets um and audience and knowing your targets um and how to get more information to the right

how to get more information to the right how to get more information to the right people or the right operators so that

people or the right operators so that people or the right operators so that your conversion rates go up your value

your conversion rates go up your value your conversion rates go up your value goes up um and from an operator side

goes up um and from an operator side goes up um and from an operator side it's going to support in a very similar

it's going to support in a very similar it's going to support in a very similar fashion as well yeah what's crazy is

fashion as well yeah what's crazy is fashion as well yeah what's crazy is I've I've had a few people mention this

I've I've had a few people mention this I've I've had a few people mention this concept and it's it it's it shouldn't

concept and it's it it's it shouldn't concept and it's it it's it shouldn't happen but it's almost like the happen but it's almost like the happen but it's almost like the Affiliates could actually afford to

Affiliates could actually afford to Affiliates could actually afford to almost hire you guys to work on behalf

almost hire you guys to work on behalf almost hire you guys to work on behalf of the operators because I mean look if

of the operators because I mean look if of the operators because I mean look if you're talking about a big affiliate

you're talking about a big affiliate you're talking about a big affiliate that makes 25 million per month I mean

that makes 25 million per month I mean that makes 25 million per month I mean they could afford to say hey if we're they could afford to say hey if we're they could afford to say hey if we're going to send you this traffic which is

going to send you this traffic which is going to send you this traffic which is going to be worth a lot of money I mean

going to be worth a lot of money I mean going to be worth a lot of money I mean there your your retainer is like right

there your your retainer is like right there your your retainer is like right in there it's almost like it's it's

in there it's almost like it's it's in there it's almost like it's it's actually worth their time to do it which

actually worth their time to do it which actually worth their time to do it which they shouldn't have to but I know even

they shouldn't have to but I know even they shouldn't have to but I know even in the affiliate software space this is

in the affiliate software space this is in the affiliate software space this is a reality there's some software and I

a reality there's some software and I a reality there's some software and I won't name which ones but sometimes the

won't name which ones but sometimes the won't name which ones but sometimes the operator has to pay more to get like a a

operator has to pay more to get like a a operator has to pay more to get like a a couple extra features that features give

couple extra features that features give couple extra features that features give more data to the affiliate and the

more data to the affiliate and the more data to the affiliate and the affiliate is frustrated going only half

affiliate is frustrated going only half affiliate is frustrated going only half of the soft um The Operators on these

of the soft um The Operators on these of the soft um The Operators on these platforms offer this richer data and

platforms offer this richer data and platforms offer this richer data and when I have richer data I can do more

when I have richer data I can do more when I have richer data I can do more with it but I think that goes beyond

with it but I think that goes beyond with it but I think that goes beyond just tools and and product as well I

just tools and and product as well I just tools and and product as well I mean we've worked with the Affiliates in

mean we've worked with the Affiliates in mean we've worked with the Affiliates in the past and we worked with operators to

the past and we worked with operators to the past and we worked with operators to support Affiliates in the past where

support Affiliates in the past where support Affiliates in the past where we're try and find systemic issues that

we're try and find systemic issues that we're try and find systemic issues that go beyond the affiliate the affiliate

go beyond the affiliate the affiliate go beyond the affiliate the affiliate can only do so much to bring a lead and

can only do so much to bring a lead and can only do so much to bring a lead and once that lead's converted it's over to

once that lead's converted it's over to once that lead's converted it's over to the operator and it's up to the operator

the operator and it's up to the operator the operator and it's up to the operator what happens next the problem that you

what happens next the problem that you what happens next the problem that you find and we've spoken about this in the

find and we've spoken about this in the find and we've spoken about this in the past but the problem that you find in

past but the problem that you find in past but the problem that you find in these scenarios is if you don't have a

these scenarios is if you don't have a these scenarios is if you don't have a robust retention model or you don't have

robust retention model or you don't have robust retention model or you don't have a collaborative acquisition strategy and

a collaborative acquisition strategy and a collaborative acquisition strategy and you don't have an internal operation

you don't have an internal operation you don't have an internal operation retention CRM approach ultimately what

retention CRM approach ultimately what retention CRM approach ultimately what you find you can convert as many players

you find you can convert as many players you find you can convert as many players as you want but your retention is going as you want but your retention is going as you want but your retention is going to go down the same applies with bonus

to go down the same applies with bonus to go down the same applies with bonus misappropriation and trying to allocate

misappropriation and trying to allocate misappropriation and trying to allocate and buy loyalty where a lot of company

and buy loyalty where a lot of company and buy loyalty where a lot of company celebrate these sudden spikes and ggr or

celebrate these sudden spikes and ggr or celebrate these sudden spikes and ggr or ngr going up and we we celebrate this

ngr going up and we we celebrate this ngr going up and we we celebrate this but the reality of it is is if it's not

but the reality of it is is if it's not but the reality of it is is if it's not sustainable it's not consistent or

sustainable it's not consistent or sustainable it's not consistent or standard Behavior you get this delayed

standard Behavior you get this delayed standard Behavior you get this delayed blowback you're not going to see it in

blowback you're not going to see it in blowback you're not going to see it in the moment and the affiliate might

the moment and the affiliate might the moment and the affiliate might Rejoice because they have this amazing

Rejoice because they have this amazing Rejoice because they have this amazing revion coming in and this sudden lift of

revion coming in and this sudden lift of revion coming in and this sudden lift of whatever 50% 100% and two three months

whatever 50% 100% and two three months whatever 50% 100% and two three months later there's a sudden dive and when you

later there's a sudden dive and when you later there's a sudden dive and when you start trying to analyze what happened

start trying to analyze what happened start trying to analyze what happened why are these players dropping off you

why are these players dropping off you why are these players dropping off you you can't see it in the moment because

you can't see it in the moment because you can't see it in the moment because the problem doesn't come from that the problem doesn't come from that the problem doesn't come from that moment it comes from a historical moment

moment it comes from a historical moment moment it comes from a historical moment um and having those strategies to combat

um and having those strategies to combat um and having those strategies to combat these volatile spikes and drops that's

these volatile spikes and drops that's these volatile spikes and drops that's something that's really lacking right

something that's really lacking right something that's really lacking right now in the industry there are some

now in the industry there are some now in the industry there are some unbelievable acquisition teams out there

unbelievable acquisition teams out there unbelievable acquisition teams out there that we've worked with the problem is in

that we've worked with the problem is in that we've worked with the problem is in many of these companies you have

many of these companies you have many of these companies you have acquisition one unit retention one unit

acquisition one unit retention one unit acquisition one unit retention one unit custom custom operations one unit

custom custom operations one unit custom custom operations one unit affiliation as part of acquisition as a

affiliation as part of acquisition as a affiliation as part of acquisition as a subunit within the unit and everyone is

subunit within the unit and everyone is subunit within the unit and everyone is compartmentalized into their own

compartmentalized into their own compartmentalized into their own category yeah that's the problem here

category yeah that's the problem here category yeah that's the problem here that's exactly true I mean it's almost

that's exactly true I mean it's almost that's exactly true I mean it's almost like the whole thing like even with

like the whole thing like even with like the whole thing like even with sales and marketing not working together

sales and marketing not working together sales and marketing not working together it's the same thing they're all in their

it's the same thing they're all in their it's the same thing they're all in their own silos correct okay I think I think

own silos correct okay I think I think own silos correct okay I think I think in that sense if we it's not to say that

in that sense if we it's not to say that in that sense if we it's not to say that we have to be this massive collaborative

we have to be this massive collaborative we have to be this massive collaborative everyone does

everyone does everyone does everything you know industry everyone

everything you know industry everyone everything you know industry everyone has their skill set everyone has their

has their skill set everyone has their has their skill set everyone has their own Direction but we can learn a lot by

own Direction but we can learn a lot by own Direction but we can learn a lot by asking each other for a challenge or uh

asking each other for a challenge or uh asking each other for a challenge or uh a difference in opinion and if we know

a difference in opinion and if we know a difference in opinion and if we know that our action will indirectly impact

that our action will indirectly impact that our action will indirectly impact someone else's Focus get them into that

someone else's Focus get them into that someone else's Focus get them into that conversation that that's the best thing

conversation that that's the best thing conversation that that's the best thing that someone can do and we're often at

that someone can do and we're often at that someone can do and we're often at the table when those discussions are

the table when those discussions are the table when those discussions are taking place trying to

taking place trying to taking place trying to facilitate as an impartial party how do

facilitate as an impartial party how do facilitate as an impartial party how do we have this conversation without it

we have this conversation without it we have this conversation without it being seen as someone else trying to do

being seen as someone else trying to do being seen as someone else trying to do your job and the same applies with

your job and the same applies with your job and the same applies with Affiliates and operators the affiliate

Affiliates and operators the affiliate Affiliates and operators the affiliate is not yet to tell the operator how to

is not yet to tell the operator how to is not yet to tell the operator how to do their job Affiliates is simply

do their job Affiliates is simply do their job Affiliates is simply providing insights on how to best manage

providing insights on how to best manage providing insights on how to best manage retain and convert value from the

retain and convert value from the retain and convert value from the traffic that I'm sending and I think

traffic that I'm sending and I think traffic that I'm sending and I think that that's the same mindset that

that that's the same mindset that that that's the same mindset that operators understand it's not a threat

operators understand it's not a threat operators understand it's not a threat and it's not someone trying to tell you

and it's not someone trying to tell you and it's not someone trying to tell you that you're doing something wrong it's that you're doing something wrong it's that you're doing something wrong it's not an accusation

not an accusation not an accusation either I think once we get into this

either I think once we get into this either I think once we get into this more positive way of looking at things

more positive way of looking at things more positive way of looking at things and we look at it from commercial but

and we look at it from commercial but and we look at it from commercial but also from human touch um personalization

also from human touch um personalization also from human touch um personalization and

and and value I think we're going to see a big

value I think we're going to see a big value I think we're going to see a big shift in how the industry is performing

shift in how the industry is performing shift in how the industry is performing overall not just on Brand level but even

overall not just on Brand level but even overall not just on Brand level but even from a segment level as well yeah and

from a segment level as well yeah and from a segment level as well yeah and that might even changed to this

that might even changed to this that might even changed to this situation where casinos are opening and

situation where casinos are opening and situation where casinos are opening and closing all the time like 50 we're

closing all the time like 50 we're closing all the time like 50 we're adding 50 iig gaming philate programs

adding 50 iig gaming philate programs adding 50 iig gaming philate programs per month and we're closing 30 this is

per month and we're closing 30 this is per month and we're closing 30 this is just like clockwork which is kind of

just like clockwork which is kind of just like clockwork which is kind of good on paper that we're adding this

good on paper that we're adding this good on paper that we're adding this this many more but I mean I think

this many more but I mean I think this many more but I mean I think there's just going to be a matter of there's just going to be a matter of there's just going to be a matter of time when the Market's even more flooded

time when the Market's even more flooded time when the Market's even more flooded than what it is I think um I think

than what it is I think um I think than what it is I think um I think Affiliates always did care about quality

Affiliates always did care about quality Affiliates always did care about quality but they're kind of like what do I have

but they're kind of like what do I have but they're kind of like what do I have and funny enough on the filing side

and funny enough on the filing side and funny enough on the filing side there's not too many filing sharing a there's not too many filing sharing a there's not too many filing sharing a ton of De data the only data that's

ton of De data the only data that's ton of De data the only data that's actually being shared is you can go on

actually being shared is you can go on actually being shared is you can go on ask Gamers and go who are they promoting

ask Gamers and go who are they promoting ask Gamers and go who are they promoting and why but that doesn't tell you

and why but that doesn't tell you and why but that doesn't tell you everything that just tells you that well

everything that just tells you that well everything that just tells you that well they're making good money with them but

they're making good money with them but they're making good money with them but is that the best traffic like a program

is that the best traffic like a program is that the best traffic like a program could easily compensate that with a flat

could easily compensate that with a flat could easily compensate that with a flat fee and if you're a smaller affiliate

fee and if you're a smaller affiliate fee and if you're a smaller affiliate you're not really commanding these flat you're not really commanding these flat you're not really commanding these flat Feast you're kind of like look where do

Feast you're kind of like look where do Feast you're kind of like look where do I send traffic to this is actually it's

I send traffic to this is actually it's I send traffic to this is actually it's a problem that people just don't have

a problem that people just don't have a problem that people just don't have enough insights

enough insights enough insights on I agree completely and then so I'm

on I agree completely and then so I'm on I agree completely and then so I'm going to change one of my questions to

going to change one of my questions to going to change one of my questions to say if if a smaller affiliate was

say if if a smaller affiliate was say if if a smaller affiliate was fortunate enough to have like six hours

fortunate enough to have like six hours fortunate enough to have like six hours of your time um how would you be able to

of your time um how would you be able to of your time um how would you be able to help

help help them that's a great question I think if

them that's a great question I think if them that's a great question I think if I were to dedicate time to trying to

I were to dedicate time to trying to I were to dedicate time to trying to help a smaller affiliate it would be

help a smaller affiliate it would be help a smaller affiliate it would be about trying to break down the

about trying to break down the about trying to break down the understanding of what they're working understanding of what they're working understanding of what they're working with and at the same time they're

with and at the same time they're with and at the same time they're working with for me it's it's very much

working with for me it's it's very much working with for me it's it's very much about painting picture and I had this

about painting picture and I had this about painting picture and I had this conversation the other day where someone

conversation the other day where someone conversation the other day where someone asked me uh I went into a company and I

asked me uh I went into a company and I asked me uh I went into a company and I started asking a lot of questions I had

started asking a lot of questions I had started asking a lot of questions I had an established program and the question

an established program and the question an established program and the question was why do you need to know all this

was why do you need to know all this was why do you need to know all this information and my metaphor that I used

information and my metaphor that I used information and my metaphor that I used is well when you go to see a new doctor

is well when you go to see a new doctor is well when you go to see a new doctor the doctor's going to ask you for your the doctor's going to ask you for your the doctor's going to ask you for your history ask information and they're

history ask information and they're history ask information and they're going to need to paint the picture

going to need to paint the picture going to need to paint the picture because I can't help you if I don't know

because I can't help you if I don't know because I can't help you if I don't know what I'm trying to help and this is

what I'm trying to help and this is what I'm trying to help and this is where trying to help an affiliate what

where trying to help an affiliate what where trying to help an affiliate what are the pain points that are being

are the pain points that are being are the pain points that are being experienced what are the unknown

experienced what are the unknown experienced what are the unknown unknowns can I help you discover what

unknowns can I help you discover what unknowns can I help you discover what you don't know at the same time it's

you don't know at the same time it's you don't know at the same time it's also about reviewing what is known and

also about reviewing what is known and also about reviewing what is known and challenging the status quoe potentially

challenging the status quoe potentially challenging the status quoe potentially find ways to optimize to simplify to

find ways to optimize to simplify to find ways to optimize to simplify to find more efficient uh channels and at

find more efficient uh channels and at find more efficient uh channels and at the same time possibly even look at

the same time possibly even look at the same time possibly even look at diversification what are we presenting

diversification what are we presenting diversification what are we presenting and then and then I would

and then and then I would and then and then I would apply more broader brand Focus how are

apply more broader brand Focus how are apply more broader brand Focus how are you communicating your brand is it going

you communicating your brand is it going you communicating your brand is it going and presenting the way that you hope it

and presenting the way that you hope it and presenting the way that you hope it is to the audience that you're going

is to the audience that you're going is to the audience that you're going after because you can't go after

after because you can't go after after because you can't go after everyone you don't want to be the the

everyone you don't want to be the the everyone you don't want to be the the Jack of all trades and then master of

Jack of all trades and then master of Jack of all trades and then master of none you're going to need to be at least

none you're going to need to be at least none you're going to need to be at least proficient somewhere and trying to

proficient somewhere and trying to proficient somewhere and trying to determine what that somewhere is I think

determine what that somewhere is I think determine what that somewhere is I think that that is a really strong point start

that that is a really strong point start that that is a really strong point start because everything can be built around

because everything can be built around because everything can be built around that primary

that primary that primary objective um but in many cases a lot of

objective um but in many cases a lot of objective um but in many cases a lot of people don't know what the primary

people don't know what the primary people don't know what the primary objective is they have multiple

objective is they have multiple objective is they have multiple objectives so I think if I were to

objectives so I think if I were to objectives so I think if I were to dedicate the time that would be the

dedicate the time that would be the dedicate the time that would be the summary of how I would go about it that

summary of how I would go about it that summary of how I would go about it that makes sense and I guess maybe a question

makes sense and I guess maybe a question makes sense and I guess maybe a question of like okay how would you be able to

of like okay how would you be able to of like okay how would you be able to help let's say the larger established

help let's say the larger established help let's say the larger established companies like you know the K Medias the

companies like you know the K Medias the companies like you know the K Medias the game lounges the r techs the better

game lounges the r techs the better game lounges the r techs the better Collective um I'm assuming that if they

Collective um I'm assuming that if they Collective um I'm assuming that if they if they were to you know have you for

if they were to you know have you for if they were to you know have you for six hours I think they'd probably get a

six hours I think they'd probably get a six hours I think they'd probably get a lot of value out of kind of going what

lot of value out of kind of going what lot of value out of kind of going what could we do to get a better

could we do to get a better could we do to get a better understanding of our own business as

understanding of our own business as understanding of our own business as well as what can we do from a Content

well as what can we do from a Content well as what can we do from a Content perspective I mean content is is

perspective I mean content is is perspective I mean content is is definitely key i' I'd start probably

definitely key i' I'd start probably definitely key i' I'd start probably with the websites with the websites with the websites what what are they actually presenting

what what are they actually presenting what what are they actually presenting where are they presenting to who are

where are they presenting to who are where are they presenting to who are they presenting a lot of the names that

they presenting a lot of the names that they presenting a lot of the names that you've mentioned are some of the you've mentioned are some of the you've mentioned are some of the Affiliates that have come up in some of

Affiliates that have come up in some of Affiliates that have come up in some of our acquisition Audits and the reality

our acquisition Audits and the reality our acquisition Audits and the reality is yes they're an amazing name brand and

is yes they're an amazing name brand and is yes they're an amazing name brand and they have a good reputation behind them

they have a good reputation behind them they have a good reputation behind them but when you look at the type of traffic

but when you look at the type of traffic but when you look at the type of traffic that's coming through it's very

that's coming through it's very that's coming through it's very temporary for a lot

temporary for a lot temporary for a lot of well you wouldn't expect it to be

of well you wouldn't expect it to be of well you wouldn't expect it to be temporary let's put it like that um but

temporary let's put it like that um but temporary let's put it like that um but a lot of the traffic that is coming is

a lot of the traffic that is coming is a lot of the traffic that is coming is you know the three months get as much

you know the three months get as much you know the three months get as much out of as you can and then you're going

out of as you can and then you're going out of as you can and then you're going rinse and repeat I would want to find a

rinse and repeat I would want to find a rinse and repeat I would want to find a way to to prolong that and that that

way to to prolong that and that that way to to prolong that and that that comes down to figuring out the comes down to figuring out the comes down to figuring out the collaborative aspect that we discuss

collaborative aspect that we discuss collaborative aspect that we discuss between those larger more established

between those larger more established between those larger more established affiliat and operator what is your

affiliat and operator what is your affiliat and operator what is your operator management strategy what is

operator management strategy what is operator management strategy what is your operator collaborative strategy

your operator collaborative strategy your operator collaborative strategy what is your understanding of what your

what is your understanding of what your what is your understanding of what your operators actually doing and are you

operators actually doing and are you operators actually doing and are you communicating that and crosschecking

communicating that and crosschecking communicating that and crosschecking that to what you're actually

that to what you're actually that to what you're actually communicating are you harming your brand

communicating are you harming your brand communicating are you harming your brand by by by misrepresentation or not and if you

misrepresentation or not and if you misrepresentation or not and if you aren't how can we improve optimize or

aren't how can we improve optimize or aren't how can we improve optimize or even expand to make you that content

even expand to make you that content even expand to make you that content Powerhouse and Target the Right audience

Powerhouse and Target the Right audience Powerhouse and Target the Right audience but what they're looking for and I think

but what they're looking for and I think but what they're looking for and I think that's where marketing and brand and

that's where marketing and brand and that's where marketing and brand and relationship building with operators

relationship building with operators relationship building with operators goes hand in hand yeah it's we didn't

goes hand in hand yeah it's we didn't goes hand in hand yeah it's we didn't really touch upon it too much but it's

really touch upon it too much but it's really touch upon it too much but it's almost like the brand building for the

almost like the brand building for the almost like the brand building for the operator for the affiliate it's um it

operator for the affiliate it's um it operator for the affiliate it's um it sounds like when you actually spend time

sounds like when you actually spend time sounds like when you actually spend time focusing on that it it actually leads to

focusing on that it it actually leads to focusing on that it it actually leads to good things it leads to better data it's

good things it leads to better data it's good things it leads to better data it's um I think uh some companies do it well

um I think uh some companies do it well um I think uh some companies do it well but I think there's more on the but I think there's more on the but I think there's more on the operators and Affiliates that could

operators and Affiliates that could operators and Affiliates that could probably uh find ways of just improving

probably uh find ways of just improving probably uh find ways of just improving their their their branding 100% but I think this also

branding 100% but I think this also branding 100% but I think this also extends to your affiliate managers as

extends to your affiliate managers as extends to your affiliate managers as well affiliate managers are not not just

well affiliate managers are not not just well affiliate managers are not not just glorified account managers specializing

glorified account managers specializing glorified account managers specializing on affiliation they also need to have a

on affiliation they also need to have a on affiliation they also need to have a pulse on what's Happening behind the

pulse on what's Happening behind the pulse on what's Happening behind the scenes they also need to be able to

scenes they also need to be able to scenes they also need to be able to direct uh the Affiliates in in the right

direct uh the Affiliates in in the right direct uh the Affiliates in in the right direction so if you were to comp

direction so if you were to comp direction so if you were to comp affiliate managers VIP account managers

affiliate managers VIP account managers affiliate managers VIP account managers the roles are almost identical the

the roles are almost identical the the roles are almost identical the subject matter is the only thing that's

subject matter is the only thing that's subject matter is the only thing that's changed so if you want to change

changed so if you want to change changed so if you want to change Behavior or you want to shift behavior

Behavior or you want to shift behavior Behavior or you want to shift behavior in a particular way you need to be

in a particular way you need to be in a particular way you need to be trained to understand how to do that you

trained to understand how to do that you trained to understand how to do that you also need to have an understanding of also need to have an understanding of also need to have an understanding of what you're trying to

what you're trying to what you're trying to achieve yeah that's interesting it's

achieve yeah that's interesting it's achieve yeah that's interesting it's almost like you you wouldn't want to

almost like you you wouldn't want to almost like you you wouldn't want to hire the sales focused VIP man manager

hire the sales focused VIP man manager hire the sales focused VIP man manager to manage your VIPs that doesn't have a

to manage your VIPs that doesn't have a to manage your VIPs that doesn't have a lot of experience yet in affiliate

lot of experience yet in affiliate lot of experience yet in affiliate marketing we're seeing a lot of um new

marketing we're seeing a lot of um new marketing we're seeing a lot of um new affiliate managers coming to the space

affiliate managers coming to the space affiliate managers coming to the space and who knows what reason there is for

and who knows what reason there is for and who knows what reason there is for it like maybe it's because there's no

it like maybe it's because there's no it like maybe it's because there's no affiliate marketing school like there's

affiliate marketing school like there's affiliate marketing school like there's no VIP management school either at least

no VIP management school either at least no VIP management school either at least at least not that I know of maybe

at least not that I know of maybe at least not that I know of maybe there's a few ACM that actually offer

there's a few ACM that actually offer there's a few ACM that actually offer these courses but um yeah it's funny

these courses but um yeah it's funny these courses but um yeah it's funny it's um the affiliate manager sometimes

it's um the affiliate manager sometimes it's um the affiliate manager sometimes on my side as not even a real affiliate

on my side as not even a real affiliate on my side as not even a real affiliate like we're a B2B affiliate but we see

like we're a B2B affiliate but we see like we're a B2B affiliate but we see the experience of what we get in dealing

the experience of what we get in dealing the experience of what we get in dealing with affiliate managers on all of these

with affiliate managers on all of these with affiliate managers on all of these programs like hundreds if not over a

programs like hundreds if not over a programs like hundreds if not over a thousand and it's just it's a really bad

thousand and it's just it's a really bad thousand and it's just it's a really bad experience it it makes you actually

experience it it makes you actually experience it it makes you actually don't even care about the brand and

don't even care about the brand and don't even care about the brand and that's ironic because if you're an

that's ironic because if you're an that's ironic because if you're an affiliate and you don't care about the affiliate and you don't care about the affiliate and you don't care about the brand just on the initial discussion

brand just on the initial discussion brand just on the initial discussion you're like well what's what else is you're like well what's what else is you're like well what's what else is behind this program it's funny that you

behind this program it's funny that you behind this program it's funny that you say that it's um I think a lot of uh

say that it's um I think a lot of uh say that it's um I think a lot of uh affiliate programs need to hear this and

affiliate programs need to hear this and affiliate programs need to hear this and kind of know hey um your affiliate

kind of know hey um your affiliate kind of know hey um your affiliate managers are an extension of VIP because

managers are an extension of VIP because managers are an extension of VIP because if you piss me as the affiliate off uh

if you piss me as the affiliate off uh if you piss me as the affiliate off uh you're losing out on that next player

you're losing out on that next player you're losing out on that next player 100% 100% irony and I'm going to finish

100% 100% irony and I'm going to finish 100% 100% irony and I'm going to finish this off with uh what do you see of the this off with uh what do you see of the this off with uh what do you see of the future of affiliate marketing as it

future of affiliate marketing as it future of affiliate marketing as it intersects with business intelligence

intersects with business intelligence intersects with business intelligence I I I think going through everything that

think going through everything that think going through everything that we've already highlighted you know the

we've already highlighted you know the we've already highlighted you know the saturation of the markets how many

saturation of the markets how many saturation of the markets how many brands are popping up and then closing

brands are popping up and then closing brands are popping up and then closing down at an alarming rate I think we're

down at an alarming rate I think we're down at an alarming rate I think we're going to see far more of not so much a

going to see far more of not so much a going to see far more of not so much a dependency but desire to get companies

dependency but desire to get companies dependency but desire to get companies like Blas and Market insights into your

like Blas and Market insights into your like Blas and Market insights into your affiliate modeling

affiliate modeling affiliate modeling try to get a much more datadriven

try to get a much more datadriven try to get a much more datadriven insight into your estimated ftds

insight into your estimated ftds insight into your estimated ftds forcasting estimated

forcasting estimated forcasting estimated ggr um and looking at this impartial

ggr um and looking at this impartial ggr um and looking at this impartial data not coming from the operator side

data not coming from the operator side data not coming from the operator side but from these third parties to provide

but from these third parties to provide but from these third parties to provide a more broader perspective I think from

a more broader perspective I think from a more broader perspective I think from the VIP side more Community

the VIP side more Community the VIP side more Community Driven um approaches are going to pop up

Driven um approaches are going to pop up Driven um approaches are going to pop up and we've seen this actually very

and we've seen this actually very and we've seen this actually very actively in the crypto space with

actively in the crypto space with actively in the crypto space with Shuffle and St and all these different

Shuffle and St and all these different Shuffle and St and all these different communities that are built around either

communities that are built around either communities that are built around either a cryptocurrency or uh a brand very very

a cryptocurrency or uh a brand very very a cryptocurrency or uh a brand very very strong Brands um but where those will

strong Brands um but where those will strong Brands um but where those will intersect and VIP will be

intersect and VIP will be intersect and VIP will be datadriven

datadriven datadriven consur where your traffic will sign up

consur where your traffic will sign up consur where your traffic will sign up um to your affiliate program or to your

um to your affiliate program or to your um to your affiliate program or to your ad Cass or however you want to present

ad Cass or however you want to present ad Cass or however you want to present it um and Affiliates will need to start

it um and Affiliates will need to start it um and Affiliates will need to start getting more involved VI is not going to

getting more involved VI is not going to getting more involved VI is not going to suddenly grow exponentially it's always

suddenly grow exponentially it's always suddenly grow exponentially it's always going to be that small segment um and if

going to be that small segment um and if going to be that small segment um and if Affiliates want to capitalize on that

Affiliates want to capitalize on that Affiliates want to capitalize on that very very big contribution that is

very very big contribution that is very very big contribution that is coming from a very small segment they're

coming from a very small segment they're coming from a very small segment they're going to need to make the effort to get

going to need to make the effort to get going to need to make the effort to get more involved and I think over the next

more involved and I think over the next more involved and I think over the next 3 to 5 years years that is what is to

3 to 5 years years that is what is to 3 to 5 years years that is what is to determine what Affiliates do succeed

determine what Affiliates do succeed determine what Affiliates do succeed what Affiliates absorbed

what Affiliates absorbed what Affiliates absorbed consolidation um and what Affiliates

consolidation um and what Affiliates consolidation um and what Affiliates close very insightful I think we're

close very insightful I think we're close very insightful I think we're definitely going to have to have a definitely going to have to have a definitely going to have to have a follow-up conversation and I hope uh

follow-up conversation and I hope uh follow-up conversation and I hope uh people especially in our I gaming space

people especially in our I gaming space people especially in our I gaming space and the affiliate space appreciate uh

and the affiliate space appreciate uh and the affiliate space appreciate uh some of these ideas so I just want to

some of these ideas so I just want to some of these ideas so I just want to pass it back to you to say how can pass it back to you to say how can pass it back to you to say how can people get a hold of you and we'll

people get a hold of you and we'll people get a hold of you and we'll include those links in the show notes

include those links in the show notes include those links in the show notes I think the best way to reach me would

I think the best way to reach me would I think the best way to reach me would be via LinkedIn so anyone can reach out

be via LinkedIn so anyone can reach out be via LinkedIn so anyone can reach out via DM and I'll get back to whoever

via DM and I'll get back to whoever via DM and I'll get back to whoever wants to reach out for a conversation so

wants to reach out for a conversation so wants to reach out for a conversation so we'll include that as well as Warrior

we'll include that as well as Warrior we'll include that as well as Warrior lab and then uh definitely a link to the

lab and then uh definitely a link to the lab and then uh definitely a link to the the newsletter G's guide definitely got

the newsletter G's guide definitely got the newsletter G's guide definitely got to check it out G thanks so much for

to check it out G thanks so much for to check it out G thanks so much for doing this this was a pleasure awesome

doing this this was a pleasure awesome doing this this was a pleasure awesome thank you so much for having

me thank you for tuning in to the bi me thank you for tuning in to the bi podcast I'd like to take this time to

podcast I'd like to take this time to podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor to leave a rating

ask for a small favor to leave a rating ask for a small favor to leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your

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