Digital PR Link Building Strategies for Google SGE with Fery Kaszoni

so we sometimes put in two weeks of work in a campaign that you know journalist would have to do otherwise that's what they need they they they need time how do you give them time do the work that they would have to do go and scrape those websites my trip advisor or go and you know filter those data sets put them together on your team create something create a report and give it to them already made that's what they want so if you give give them

a very good work H and based on what they write about out consistently not just once a year or once in two years consistently then you know you will have a great success there I'm John Wright and you're listening to affiliate bi the business intelligence and affiliate marketing podcast brought to you by stat welcome to the affiliate bi podcast today we're chatting with fairy kazone who's not just one of the most interesting link Builders I know he's the first person to be featured twice on this

podcast he's the founder of the search intelligence agency which specializes in digital PR and I'm excited to talk in about not just digital PR but maybe some conflicting uh philosophies on what it is how to do it right so let's jump into branding in digital PR awesome I'm bumped I'm glad to be here for the second time and uh yeah I'm I'm ready to give it away and let's uh yeah let's as we talk before the uh you know before the recording we like let's uh

you know let's just see some controversial opinions because I do have some controversial opinions that you know might not resonate with the traditional status quo of digital PR so let's do it I I'm ready to be wrong so my philosophy on digital PR is that I do think that it can and should be an extension of branding but I think it also I mean I hate saying because I just learned that in the SEO Community everyone says it depends so how does it depend in digital

PR I mean I think links are they're they're sort of like an extension of branding like for me for my company in stat drone I'm like well if we can be mentioned in any capacity in the right context in affiliate marketing I personally view that as positive branding now if I'm talking about something controversial then I still see it as branding it's like you know come to us for the discussion on affiliate marketing but how do you see it differently and where are people kind of

maybe disagreeing with you I I think when when you say you know oh digital PR you know I want some branding therefore let's do some digital PR H if people want to approach it that way and that should that that would be one of the main you know strategies for Branding I don't think digital PR is an effective way to to do branding as you said it is a touch point so yeah when we've done everything else in terms of branding and we also want to

just add some extra touch points I think digital PR is great but I don't think digital PR should be used as one one of the main drivers of branding because it's probably the worst place to spend your money if you want to go and oh I want branding and then go and I'm going to do digital PR now and that's going to explode my brand and when you get mentioned in the news outlets most of the time yeah there might be some exceptions right but most

of the time with digital PR and with any PR people will usually forget about what they read in like um you know 10 minutes after reading or even less after win the post so I think the um The Branding aspect of digital PR is real and but it's it should not be you know digital be should not be you know one of the main drivers of branding when you've done you know exponential video creation on all social channels and when you've done you know everything else

in terms of branding you know and thought leadership on on you know on various oh conference and so on and you want to add some extra touch points then yes you should you know do digital PR but I think digital PR the biggest value of digital PR is is links and that's why the industry exploded in the past three years because seos have figured out hey you know these guest blogs some of you know the inventory is Getting Thinner and thinner and it's more you know

difficult to actually get good quality sites that have a good reputation still you know intact and therefore they found out hey it's um you know digital PR there's links there let's divert some you know budget from this $1 million dollar a year budget that we have for link building and by the way people might think this is crazy but1 million dollars a year and for for link building is is nothing as you might know in IG gaming especially or in any competitive Niche that's nothing so

let's divert you know quarter million per year to digital PR because there's links there I think the the most valuable um outcome of digital PR is is links and and if you don't have links I think the the money is just being mostly wasted on on the J PR that's what I think and that's what I see from our client base now maybe some other people have some you know different realities and that might you know that also might be true but for my reality and

from our little world and for our client base the biggest value of DL PR is l and branding is like a an extra little you know very minuscule kind of value that's there I I maybe I wonder if other people maybe they put more weight and say that is actually branding so they're actually saying they're respecting The Branding aspect but I mean it goes full circle uh what people care about is legit traffic and improved uh search rankings so if you're getting that I mean those

should be the primary goals but I think if you've got uh branding as an extra benefit then maybe another way to look at this is going well the digital PR Done Right is actually going to be the maximum value out of these links yeah exactly well well it it comes like yes it and it can be a massive value for Branding for example you but through the links so you get the links and consistently not just you know what campaign goes viral and you get 100

links once in a year but you know you get consistent links every you know month or two months or three months or you get consistent links flowing to the website for like long period of time and those links will enhance your content on the website where you are a thought leader in your industry and you create informational informational articles that's where you know the impact of digital PR can also be further Amplified as a massive you know branding machine where it amplifies your websit Authority so

that your info content rank side it's not going to be your you know sales content but your Authority is ship content on let's say if you are selling you know um I know pet supplies you can be the pet expert in your field that helps hundreds of thousands of people on Google with the info content and that's branding you don't sell there you you you build a brand you build love you build a community and you know that's another you know powerful branding effect through the

links but if you don't have the links then it's just a brand mention once in a newspaper a few times in the newspaper and people forget about you but if you have the links then they amplify your extra you know branding assets as well that you have on the website would you say that it's maybe it's probably possible to monitor or measure but maybe it's difficult to measure the impact of of these digital PR campaigns where you do them and you've got a campaign and let's

say it creates like 50 links but I'm assuming that when those 50 links happen sometimes they can they can catch wind and they could actually lead to another five links but those those don't happen instantly they might actually have over a span of a year and you never know if one of those links is going to lead to someone messaging you in LinkedIn and we're not all always taking the time to go how did you hear about us well I heard about you with some random

blog that I had no business dealing with and that's the first time I've heard of you or maybe that's the 14th time they heard of you and then that's led to them being I thought I was going to buy from you but now I'm ready to do it yeah yeah that's branding right that's that's that's kind of branding and but but I don't think any activity like most apart from like CPC where you have direct clicks and you can me everything I think branding you know

building like brand building activities such as know posting on social media or such as um you know digital PR or so on cannot really be measured directly accurately with like 100% or even like 50% accuracy because as you said how do you measure the fact that people have seen you on a thousand other places before they made the decision and they forgot about about all of those specific places but they remember just you and when you ask them where do where do you come from us

they will not be like well I've seen you on this block and that block and it fed my subconscious mind so that I can remember you when I need your service they will not be doing that right so it many things are not measurable um directly um most of the things in marketing actually not like directly measurable you can measure you know I've spent 500 Grand per per year like last year on this on these activities and the cumulative effect of them was I've doubled my

Revenue compared to last year that's something that you can kind of you know measure but not like directly you know I've launched this campaign and then it got me this exactly this amount or whatever right right okay let's keep the the conversation going on the controversial topics um we obviously know what parasite SEO is now how would you would you say digital PR could be like the white hat version a parasite SEO it would be very hard to actually create a Content so if you if

you if you are referring to let's say an example I'm going to give an example but then maybe if that's not the case then I would you know like you to give your example so if you are referring to let's say you launch a campaign and the campaign ends up in like the newor post and then that will start ranking and then that's how you would get leads is that what you refer to that would be one example like you know if you can create an

article that I mean in a perfect world I'm looking at targeting things like SEO affiliate programs that's very specific and I I don't see how else I'm going to get like the New York Post to actually write about that content like with those specific keywords but I mean maybe yeah maybe this is the next best thing where it's like if I can get them talking about SEO affiliate then maybe that's still a good extension where they're going to capture a certain audience and then it's like

well how am I getting them to talk about a certain top that's that's that's why digital PR is like hard you don't like get people to talk about you know topics that you want you have to almost adapt to what they want to talk about and then give them what they need with digital that's kind of digital that's the most of the I mean there's lots of other types of digital PR that you can do but like 98% of PR is you know resonate with the

with the news agenda and then give them something that they want because you know they will want to cover something um you know something about that topic so affiliate you know SEO they don't really write about those topics because they know like like who who cares out of the you know hundreds of millions of readers that they have like very few people would actually get you know get to click on that a very small fraction of Their audience therefore therefore therefore you would from from my

knowledge so far you would find it very hard to you know almost like almost like hack like the news agenda with with the agenda that you want um and you know just to recreate a parasite SEO kind of um you know almost like cloak parasite SEO I would I mean if somebody ever does it please let me know but so far I don't think that would very doable and doable in like a systematic replicable way would you have to do it like on a oneon-one basis

not like on a like a campaign that that creates 50 links it would have to be one link and you'd have to be lucky enough to like befriend a journalists let's say it's you know Business Insider you'd have to magically convince them that they're going to write about this topic and then somehow it's going to link to you I guess that would be the only other way yeah yeah they they know they know they know the like they they can smell it out what what you

want right they would smell your intentions from like you know I mean that would be ideal um but but but then I don't think they would ever do it for free as well and if if you have to pay for it then it's like stops being PR then it becomes like a pay sponsorship all right well let's keep the controversy going well what if you were to pay that journalist and they took money on the side I'm assuming this happens all the time and I've heard

this so would that be one way in which you could do it where it's like look we'll charge you this fee it's under the table um if the link gets removed I can't guarantee it stays up forever and you got to just hope that if you're the one buying this that it basically gets undetected and hopefully it's such a good article that it doesn't seem promotional I think that would probably be your only way of actually achieving that yeah exactly and and I I know that

many people do that and it works actually it actually works it will cost you you know some some money but but it does work and and that's been the driver probably of the uh um the parasite SEO as well right that that's be kind of and it then stops being a digital PR so uh once you do like a monitary or any incentive uh exchange to the journalist then that's not PR anymore that is you know paid promotions or or guest posts or whatever paid guest

blogs and so on so digital PR SE is to exist whenever you take the money out of your pocket then digital PR Fades out and it changes to something else so it looks like white hat leag building but yeah it's really not white hat at all no it's it's like black pocket link building CU yeah you have to pay you pay yeah it is definitely black hat if you pay for for the link and and I wonder if anyone's got any insights of like how big

this industry is because we all see the links like you go through HRS or any link tool and you're like you just see the links in front of your face you're like oh let me filter by like the highest one you're like how did they get this one yeah you know probably millions of of dollars a year or even more tens of millions maybe yeah or day yeah yeah it's it's I know it's a big industry um as you said we can see it everywhere and

and you know yeah I yeah I yeah I mean it can work so what you mentioned before I think is kind of like it's going full circle into your business that you said that you need to think about the audience and when I'm talking about the audience it's basically the journalist the person that's going to pick up your story so I'm guessing the reason why you've got a lot of success is because you intentionally understand this and for some reason it seems like most link Builders

or even affiliate marketers or any marketers they're just kind of oblivious to it like they're like why won't you write about my amazing content and it's like well I have this job to do and um maybe that's why you've actually got the success because you take the time to listen yeah yeah we like that that's the key just just give them what they want find out first what they want not what you want but give them what they want and what what do they want they

want an interesting research that resonates with their style uh with their work so if you look at what they have written about you know in the past six months then you can have a good idea of exactly what they want once you have that then give it to themsel like you know like like like selflessly and give give them expert quotes give them and just spend a week or two on a big data research that we all like we we have we continuously have like uh

20 30 data campaigns uh you know or even more that that's relying just on big big data sets U that the team is working on so we sometimes put in two weeks of work in a campaign that you know journalists would have to do otherwise that's what they need they they they need time how do give them time do the work that they would have to do go and scrape those websites like trip advisor or go and you know filter those data sets put them together

on your team create something create a report and give it to them already made that's what they want so if you give give them a very good work H and based on what they write about consistently not just once a year or once in two years consistently then you know you will have a great success there okay I know we did a small example of this where for our app we're basically listing all the affiliate programs we work with in a specific nich so right now

we have gambling covered we have 1300 and we are we are actually um we kind of monitor a certain amount of data so we know which affiliate software each program is using now we weren't sure if this was going to be interesting we're like okay is it a big deal well the software companies actually were like can we have that list every month so we're like okay sure whatever uh we're we're doing deals to help each other so it's amazing and one of the companies that

happened to be the number one software supplier in the market they published the list that said we're the number one most used affiliate software in igaming and they said according to stat drone so for us we had 20 mentions in 20 different blogs you're probably going to hate me for saying this I haven't chased them all down for hey could you attribute the stat show and a link back to us uh I think we got like three out of 20 naturally which was is not bad

but uh I think that's a good example of going well yes what are ways you can do this and you know this just happened like they did Ting ego baiting is is one of the best ways to get links right like create a list um with we you know with like like a credible list with a credible methodology um and and you people will want to share like oh we've been named you know number five on this list um it's ego bating and it always works

it works the same with journalist when you pitch something about location like if they say oh this location is like the best for you know retiring early uh journalist from that area will always cover it like from the top three they will always cover it because they are like you know it's ego baiting oh like we we're going to write about our area and we know that our you know readers are going to click on it because it's like you know it feeds the ego like

oh we are like the best so that's why awards are always important because I've heard seos say that Awards boards are are a big factor and it's like well why and well I think we know why they they generate links but I think this is feeding the pr machine it's feeding social it's feeding link building it's feeding brand mentions and this is why everyone goes crazy like we just won an an Big Industry award back in February like best tech for Affiliates from the igb affiliate

Awards and for us it like the link building that happened naturally was pretty we picked up on it we were like okay what can we do to amp so we wrote Our Own articles we actually it's funny enough you're talking about ego baiting I mentioned all the other winners and I got from them and I republished articles and they're like thank you for that and those actually picked up even more links on top of it it works it works yeah it's very very on point so

we we sort of chatted before recording that business is booming so with all the changes and disruptions happening with Google of like you know the helpful content update and I'm losing track of all the names of the updates like everyone's getting shaken down things things are going up and then recovering or not recovering at all and when I was at Brighton I was like the biggest beneficiaries of all this new business for SEO are going to be the people that do video content because they're trustworthy

and I think there's there's two things here it's because a person like you is very personable and very social and on video you're going to get more of the business and I think people are going to realize wait a minute the way of doing SEO in the past is actually being transformed right in front of us and you you as a thought leader and other people that we know have been doing this for quite some time and I think people are going to be wait a

minute I don't know who to trust but it's now going to be you so how is business business business doing yeah it's um we are continuously hiring um it's it's like the demand is is higher than ever for digital PR and I'm not sure whether it's the industry or you know as you said you know my know personal brand just being out there but it's it's great like we we we now we we are we are even like pushing back with clients because we want to

catch a breath so we make the systems and the processes more efficient so we want we want to double you know the the the kpis of our team members but without doubling their workload so we want to you know double the output um so that we can serve even more clients so we are we literally I'm putting off the meetings for like next month um because we need a bit of a time to catch a breath you know polish up the systems because when you have

this influx of like you know unlimited leads it's like it's like a tap where you have to sometimes you know just put a put a hold on it um but they still keep on coming um and yeah business is is like crazy I think Google did help us with you know the helpful content update and all the other you know up updates that that have you know o iterated like small sites recently because what is a small site is a site with you know less links

that's what the small s is um like I made a post I'm not sure you might have seen it about um Google is right you know small we like small websites started dominating page one for competitive keywords and I putting like best mattress 2024 and I said like dr20 dr1 dr39 and he was like hey was sarcastic post about you know for.com number one dr20 so like small low Dr size dominate of page one for every search ter well actually the the sites that dominate are

the ones that have you know great Authority they have massive link profile with you know like genuine you know Quality quality links and and I think that's kind of the fact that Google has punished those small you know websites with no link profiles May you know like like a big um you know alarm alarm sound in the industry like hey you need more links and they do like it like the the facts are on Google like it's not like the small little sites that have the

best content or like the best technical SEO by the way that's also needed I'm not saying that's not needed but it's the sites that have great technical SEO great content but also great a great link profile so this this situation kind of made us really you know and I think the whole digital PR industry is booming now yeah I noticed that the the UK economy increased by 0.6% from January till March so exactly I know a lot of that was probably due to your Link holding

efforts your B your business picking up and your clients benefiting from it exactly exactly we we you know we K took the UK economy out of recession H because we sold exported so much digital PR in the first quarter of the Year okay I don't think I'm going to get to all my questions because I've got all these new questions here we're going off on a t and I love it so would you say that Affiliates and SAS companies and everyone else that maybe if they

don't have the budget they should consider investment because the the link building and the digital PR like you said you just Ed the perfect example going if you don't have authority Google's looking for those signals and if you can't build them naturally uh should people be actually seriously considering raising considering raising I I would say you know if they don't have the money they either you know invest or or they find other channels as well like it's not just probably SEO um for every like there

are some channels where SEO is the main driver but you know maybe they want to do some other channel that are you know if they don't have the money they can just use maybe you know Human Resources um and just create you know I know viral videos just use creativity internally um instead of you know instead of investing in SEO like our company we never I never invested in SEO for the main website I do invest in SEO in like other websites that I own but

not for the main you know lead generation um kind of search intelligence website because we don't we don't need that we have creativity internally that yet that drives you know Millions to our business with you know parody videos and funny you know sarcastic post on LinkedIn and so on so so may maybe they have to find another way if they don't have the money or if they do want to play the game like like the big guys then they will need probably to raise raise money

um indeed yes okay that's a pretty fair answer because you you could have easily said no you have to raise money and then you know use that money to obviously you know go to search intelligence but you know my perfect example it's like you know we're we're bootstrap company we did raise an initial round and we've really not had much of a budget for link building so I said we got to get creative and and when you get creative and you're desperate you will make things

happen yeah of course but now when I see the value of this I'm like well maybe we should actually do another round so we can actually do this and that was actually another one of my questions um what would you say a SAS company should maybe consider putting aside for not just like an SEO consultant whether it's um whether you Outsource it or you do in-house but also a link building budget I think you mentioned previously you said like a million's not a big deal like

for over a year year year year yeah well it depends on the stage where the company is at right so if it's like a well established SAS company yeah go for the million a year right and but if it's a smaller one like like most of them are right most of the SAS businesses are like small businesses almost making no profits because they just burn burn money back into product development or or or whatever right or or they have just developed the product but but they

still you know they still don't have enough traction with ARR um and I think it depends they can they can have you know budgets of like 2,000s and they can start with gas blogs they don't have to start with digital PR they can start like gas blocks if they have lower budget until they start getting subraction subraction um or or they can have you know I think a healthy budget would be probably 10 15 grand where they do you know one digital PR campaign a month

and then they do some other link building as well like guest blocks and so on um I think any any budget would would just get get them hope would would have the chance to get them traction so be they have to be very careful when they invest in anything and even in SEO because um the only the only thing to guarantee you know clicks as sales um is bpc and maybe not even that but with SEO you might invest you know half a million pounds and

you might not have you know the growth that you expected because it's not just the links it's not just you know it's also the competitors so it's not just you as a factor in you know your the rankings on the website it's not just what you do on your website that's the factor which by the way those are like very complex factors like not just link building but link building combined with technical SEO and with h you know like proper topical clusters like well written you

know content and well serving the search intent well so that's just the onsite factors where you invest maybe I know half a million a year but it's not just that that that that's not going to guarantee anything what what if all your competitors will invest another million instead of a half a million so then your half a million pounds um becomes like a small budget and then yes you invested money but then you didn't consider that your competitors also invest money so you maybe you move

the needle a little bit or like you move the needle but your competitors move the needle more and they push you down so any investment into SEO into SEO into SEO uh should be you know taken as as something that's you know that's got chances and got lots of chances to win but it should not be like Oh I'm going to invest This and like 100% I'm going to you know smash it because it's not the case even with with any big website I'm from a

lot of my competition I don't think a lot of them are actually doing substantial digital PR which for me if I in if we decide to invest in that space I think it becomes a big advantage and I actually think most of them aren't always paying attention to my podcast so uh might be an advantage but I'm I'm thinking out loud if we started doing this let's say one or two years ago my opinion is and I want your take on it maybe we'd be in

a different position because it'd be a lot of money to invest so it'd be like okay that's a deficit let's say we rais money for it but if we ever wanted companies like the bigger companies that could either potentially acquire us I think we've not been on the radar yet and we're just starting to get on the radar from the podcast and social media and intros but I'm wondering if we did all the stuff early on we would have been more top of mine we might

have actually had bigger customers come on board earlier and maybe it would have been the best investment to plant the seed which we'd have like you know a full Garden today is is organic the organic Channel a good main AC acquisition channel for you like is it a good AC like a good client um generating channel oh that's a good question um I think the podcast is helping quite a bit LinkedIn for sure is personally helping quite a bit I know I'm connecting with a lot

of people going to conferences and just being top of mind and we're very aware of the bottom of funnel content that's starting to work and we've realized we need to tap into it more what's weird is like as soon as we started saying US versus our competitors and actively naming them it's actually seemed to flip a switch people started trusting us more because like oh you're not afraid to talk about your competition and then we started realizing well what keywords do Affiliates actually care about and

I'll give you an example example so we started talking about how to connect the API of affiliate programs to get your data from there well we do that as a service but people were actually looking for it to do it on their own and they're like yeah we had no idea you existed so my research says that Affiliates are problem aware but not solution aware and maybe we're going to get into a a potential client discuss discussion here where I think maybe one or two% of

Affiliates worldwide will use a stats app like us or our competitors but simply put the 99% of the business have no idea like we're affiliate stats aggregator you're not searching for that it's yeah it's it's a mouthful and even if we use affiliate CRM it's like well what is that I I still don't come to you guys and say here's my problem I'm GNA search for affiliate CRM to solve it problem aware not solution aware indeed indeed so if you come up with solution content right

um you you'll grab lots of eyeballs and lots of you know you'll build brand um yeah with with like through the organic organic channel so yes if you would have started may maybe you would would be you know um May maybe you would be you know like way ahead but uh um yeah I mean you would have been more ahead if you would have started you know like a more aggressive content creation and Link building not just you know our digital PR like anyone's digital PR

but also other types of Link building as well yeah we're looking at putting together the the budget for stepping on the gas for Content uh stepping on the gas for the digital PR um so that actually leads to another question I and I wrote this down as multiple notes what can we do as a company so if we wanted to be a customer of yours and say we want to do digital PR but we want the maximum effect I I think you mentioned creativity and data

so what can we do to make your job easier whether it's easier or maximizing the impact so just stay out of our way stand out of our way that's that's that's that's what our clients can do as easiest easiest um the the the most difficult um campaigns are when the client wants to get involved too much and they think uh you know they know their industry and they do know their industry better than us but but the success of a digital play Campaign is not predicated

on how well you know the industry it's predicated on how well you know the news agenda and and and that's that's the most important thing so um when like we don't have that too much now we still have you know some cases where we have to go in like more meetings and explain but initially when when I was not as good at at explaining at the onboarding you know stage to the client that hey you know if you are a mat a client that sells mattresses

we are not going to talk about mattresses because nobody ever writes every week or every month about mattresses we talk about sleep which is not exactly about your products or not like super product relevant but it's about the niche as a whole and when we explain the this to clients and we tell them just stand out of our way we'll launch campaigns about the Sleep Niche you know how to get your kids to fall asleep how often you should wash your bed sheets how you know

how to fall asleep um you know a heat wve and so on then we immediately have a fast lane approach to digital PR otherwise um if they say the client said well I want you know all of my legal team and all all of our compliance and all of our five editors and everyone to approve you know the email that goes out to to journalists and and by the way we still have a few of these clients are like okay let's go in a meeting and

let's just explain again we will not get the links if we if we try to be you know per like the email should be per perfectly following our tone of voice like nobody cares about that right so the easiest way for a client to you know en ensure the campaigns are successful is just St stay out of our way and and trust us we have you know B Kingdom .co.uk they've been with us for like I think almost three years now they just stood out of

our way if you look at their charts they they are dominating now we we get we got them like hundreds and hundreds of links because we could just just execute without having to be afraid of you know their editorial team you know micromanaging the emails and you know it's it's not the client's fault they do that it's my fault it's our fault because we don't I didn't I wasn't good enough at the sales you know in the sales meeting to explain to them and set the

right expectations so the clients you know could us to them they just you know want to do they just want to do what they think is best and it's on me to actually you know make sure this doesn't happen down the line now what if that client was saying okay they're doing their own research and they come up with like a sleep study and they said we have all this unique data and they gave it back to you would that be the only example where it

actually be helpful it would be helpful but we would not guarantee that we would cover it we would use it for a campaign we would take it and we would analyze it in the team say you know we got this you know great study from the client do you think it's got a potential in the next you know two months to get some links to the client because you know they paid for the invoice um and and we might say yes this is great we can

add you know this angle and that angle to it or we can just say well I don't think this is newsworthy enough for us to be able to guarantee for the links okay because that's the thing you know the risk is on us if we don't get the links we'll have to work for free and lose money on the campaigns which by by the way we do if we choose the ideas if we choose the campaigns then the risk is on us if we don't get

the links I'm sorry you know we'll launch new campaigns free of charge but if the client wants to control you know the the topic and the idea then how can we have the risk and then have no control over what we launch right so maybe a perfect scenario would be to say okay hey we've got this data we we share it over to you and if you say you don't want to use it then it's like well we know where we can use it on the

channels that we have influence on like for example my industry or that I gave that example of like you know the the my Affiliates covering that unique data set I'm like yeah would a would an a journalist actually cover that maybe not but maybe someone very deep in affiliate marketing or I gaming would yeah yeah indeed indeed and and that's that's all right but we also have you know just one client just came to us two days ago they said they wanton an award and they

want you know just like to distribute It Wide so we can say yes you know if you provide us with the you know with the content we can put it in our you know alien system and we can distribute it so that's also an option for you know some of our cents who want to have their own stories we can just you know distribute them at a lower price but with no links and not like no placements guarantee we you say We'll maximize the Outreach as

much as you know anyone can do but we do not guarantee for you know any placements with you with your case study so that's also doable yeah okay so I'm going to go another tangent but it's still on point uh I gaming business which is a conference in the igaming industry and they do events for Affiliates and they got a their own blog um they told me that they're always hungry for data because data leads to stories and they're like whatever you can do like that

example where I gave before about like you know all the the top affiliate software in igaming they're like we want that and more of it and if you could give us that we'll basically spin content around it all day and they basically said stuff like this just resonates like the furthest for Their audience um would you say like this is kind of like more Niche or a good example of going well this is an idea of how it can actually be Amplified across any channel yeah

I think I think that is you know more more Niche because the normal news outlets like you know New York Post or or you know the daily mail or Express uh which which is you know our main pool of you know uh news outlets that we that we target with our pitches they would not cover you know they would not cover that consistently so they might cover it once a year but but for us because you know we have to deliver a campaign in like two

or three months we cannot rely on like maybe they will cover it six seven months down the line when some event is happening we right so it's it's too Niche for for it to be used as a you know regular PR campaign but but it it can be you know if you pitch it to um you know if if you use it as you said for another you know type of of you know kind of Outreach that's targeting more specific uh kind of Industries then yeah

you can you can do that all right two more questions do you have more room for another client like me for example yeah we we do we do the start date now is 15 days from the invoice payment date so even today I had a meeting and I said to it was an i gaming client by the way uh crypto gaming um anyone who pays you know anyone who joins today we start the work 15 days um from now and then the delivery is about um

8 to 12 weeks so it can be you know two and a half to it can be earlier but that's kind of the delivery so we do have um room we we we hire aggressively again we we are we are we just talking this um this month no this week or with the management team we had you know multiple now we have multiple clients um spending 70 grand or more per month with us which which is a lot of campaigns and they want to spend they

want to do it for like for like for like many the other client just confirmed they want to run it throughout the whole year with this budget so we're like we need to keep on high we need to keep on pushing with this like this is this is crazy so we do have capacity but you know it's we have a staggered kind of start date yeah well it's a good problem to have so um I've noticed the the trend on the LinkedIn profile for search intelligence

it was like five five people per quarter the last two years yeah yeah and those are the people who report that they work at at search Intelligence on LinkedIn so we have way more uh that but that but that's kind of an accurate kind of trend we we did you know we do hire um we had months when we hired 15 people um or like 10 people so but it comes with you know with the pains as well you know we the hyper growth we don't

we don't make you know big profits and I always say this in you know in podcast we we are focusing on growth when you when you hire then you need to invest in your systems invest in in in training invest in lots of you know it requires the money to go back into the business so we are operating on like almost no profit margin now deliberately uh but but that's that's the price of hyperscaling and know just growing growing growing growing yeah no that makes sense

actually there's one question we didn't get to but I kind of want to ask it and I had a chance to talk with one of the biggest gambling Affiliates in the industry and I said why are you one of the top one to two people when there's other companies that they're bragging to be say I'm the 35th best and it's like like why is that or like what is your secret sauce and he his answer was like really obscure it was like no one has a

long-term vision and I was driving yesterday so this was nine months ago and I was driving and I was listening to a podcast and someone was talking about they were doing something consistently over and over again it was just basically a newsletter once a week they're like I never deviate from that and he's like no one has a long-term Vision I was like ah like I've heard this before uh what is your comment on this this yeah like consistency is is key with with with business

and um es I think for me it applies especially for for selling so when I was a smaller you know company and when we were like a smaller company and I was just me and another you know two one or two people I had problems with you know with the long-term Vision because once I sold and we got like I know 10 grand in back then it was it was a good you know good budget then I stopped selling I stopped marketing because now we have

some money and then let's wait until the money wears out and then you know let's keep on selling again so I think consistency is key for everything like for me consistency was you know just keep on keep on getting clients on board keep on keep on selling keep on creating interesting content keep on being out there and consistency kind of made made us Millions because and posting on LinkedIn every day and good content content that you actually put effort in even just to you know to

come up with like you know the um the BBC kind of you know announced that you know the UK is out of recession and then I came up with like oh it was us that that requires effort to sit down and think and think and think so content like that um posted every day is kind of what I can call consistency and that I think that made that made us who we are so far and very quickly what do you see of the future of affiliate

marketing as it intersects with business intelligence maybe search intelligence yes yes yes yes yes so I mean it's going to be more and more important I think AI will play a massive role in in this you know business intelligence and and affiliate marketing I think AI will change everything like all the you know analysis all the insights that you have from from from data it should not be a human who analyzes and summarizes and and comes comes up with you know um kind of the assessment

of the of the data I think AI should do the first you know leg work and then the human should take over from there I think AI is going to be a massive massive Game Changer in the industry like a big one anyone who is not investing in Ai and software systems that combine you know a open Ai apis and um and all the other you know like um Gemini and so on if you don't invest in software systems uh with AI you will you will

die okay I'm gonna copy this clip send it to my business partner and we're gonna we're gonna talk about this uh how can people get a hold of you fairy uh thanks a lot for doing this so I'm gonna pass it back to you thank you just just you know search for my name on on on Google and then you'll find LinkedIn will be the first link because that's where everyone clicks when they Google me and then I'm a YouTube I'm on Twitter and uh I

even have a website but like that's kind of abandoned like f.com or the agency website search hen intelligence. co.uk but yeah LinkedIn is my is the first place to be um for me I will add all of them thanks a lot for doing this thank you for having me and uh hopefully you know we discussed something to help somebody at least me least me indeed thank you for tuning in to the affiliate bi podcast I'd like to take this time to ask for a small favor

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